Anyone's ex a psychology major?

[antman6]

I find this so paradoxical! She changed her major 5 times in school, and wound up being a psych major. She has so many BPD, NPD traits, it is incredible. She exhibits those traits to her best friends, family, and of course her relationships.

I know that due to the nature of the disorder, it is impossible that she will ever see those traits in herself.

What attracts the borderline to learn psychology (particularly brain science)? It frightens me that she may counsel one day.

It appears to me that subconsciously they want to heal, and find out what is ailing them. They KNOW something is ailing them. But the disorder will always prevail.

[knowmadic]

Hi, antman! My twin is uBPD and she is studying social work and I too worry that she will counsel people but I doubt she will even use her degree since she is constantly switching what she wants to do or who she wants to be. I think she knows that something is wrong with her and that's why she got into the field.  In a moment of clarity she admitted she wasn't even interested in social work (after withdrawing from her program the 1st time) and just did it because of her own psychological problems, which she can only vaguely understand.

[innerspirit]

Sort of -- he strutted around about his being the first kid in his family, on both sides, to attend college, therefore whatever course he took made him more worldly and The Expert By Definition.  (X Spoke In Capital Letters.)  Bringing Pearls Of Wisdom to the great unwashed.  Shall we bow our heads.  So he could lord it over anyone in his FOO, by using as a tactic the heady jargon.

For matters marital (-- don't I sound more literate and sophisticated by putting the adjective after the noun? --) he trotted out his INTERPERSONAL BEHAVIOR text and INTRO TO PSYCH text.   OOH!   -- a hush fallls over the crowd.

Instead of just admitting to his behavior towards me, and Heaven forbid, apologizing.  It gave him the proper formulae (sorry, couldn't resist) for how I was supposed to word things --i.e. (there I go again) "when you do hit_, I feel hit__" -- but when I complied of course, he could accuse me of being too self-absorbed.  Per Chapter 9 of the book.

And supposedly there was no way to top his interpretation of MASLOW'S TRIANGLE OF NEEDS -- his ultimate academic means of projecting F.O.G. onto me.  With that he became Spokesman For What Any Guy Requires ---- 2.3 times a week.

He who uses the biggest words, wins, apparently -- and bonus points for statistics.

(My theory was anytime you used the words "juxtapose" and "paradigm" on a term paper in college, your grade was an automatic B.)

Oh man -- now you got me started ... .

Thanks, Antman, I enjoyed the laugh this morning.

[lifeisgoodx10]

Sort of -- he strutted around about his being the first kid in his family, on both sides, to attend college, therefore whatever course he took made him more worldly and The Expert By Definition.  (X Spoke In Capital Letters.)  Bringing Pearls Of Wisdom to the great unwashed.  Shall we bow our heads.  So he could lord it over anyone in his FOO, by using as a tactic the heady jargon.

OMG! InnerS! Mine didn't have a psyche phD, he was just plain psycho! But really. He is a phD in finance somethin' somethin' somethin' economics. But because he went to (or so he says. I am not so sure I believe it) a semester of pre-med he knows ALL about medical issues. I'm an RN (a.d.n.)  but he knows (in his mind) WAY more than I'll ever learn! He cannot stand it if I have knowledge on an issure that he doesn't. If the issue comes up again (and it will because he will bring it up in a round about way) he knows all about it. Every nook and cranny. It's admirable that he wants to learn things. And he is extremely intelligent. But it's sad that he wants or feels the need to learn about a subject to one up someone else. Silly really.

I love your statement "Bring pearls of wisdom to the unwashed"! BRILLIANT! xhBPD did this on a regular basis in EVERY conversation I EVER had with the man. I didn't see it at first. I thought it was amazing that he was so well read. But he lords it over people as you said.

He grew up in the North West, the son of school teachers and continued to college and got his phD in his thirties (he lied to me for three years saying he got his phD from Columbia U! He did it on-line! But I digress.) He moved to the south about ten years ago. I can’t count how many times I have heard him say , "The people in Mississippi are too stupid to know you fill in the blank." Now I grew up in MS. I may not be as intelligent as he and granted MS is one of the states at the top of the list for illiteracy but I’m not stupid! And I know tons of people who are not educated who also are not stupid! Sometimes I wonder if that is why he moved here………he knew it was an uneducated state and he would stand out as a god? Phhtttt! It became a huge turnoff.

I remember my mother and nephew came to visit us once and within ten minutes of their arrival (after getting unloaded) we were sitting in the living room and he tried to start a conversation with my nephew about the writings of Tolstoy! LOL! My nephew was 12! I thought, in that very moment, this man must show his intelligence to get the upper hand. Of course my nephew sat there with a glazed look in his eyes with his tongue hanging out thinking WTH!

Thanks for the laugh!

ps When I met him I had plans of continuing my education and being a nurse practitioner. He was all for it until we married. Then he talked me out of it! He got ver upset when I mentioned beginning classes again. Okay so maybe I WAS stupid!

I'm checking into those classes again now though. Never too late!

[Believe]

Mine wasn't a psychology major, BUT by the time I met him, he had spent soo many hours in therapy, at a psychiatrists, or in inpatient rehab that he could spew the "psychobabble" as if he'd studied it himself. Very little of this time was at his own initiative -- he would get in so much trouble at work (in the military, during his professional training, in his job... .) that it would be court or licensing agency mandated!

Anyway, he would endlessly badmouth it all as a bunch of BS, but in classic BPD fashion, he would also call upon all his infinite wisdom to analyze me and explain to me exactly what my personality flaws and weaknesses were. Talk about projection! I finally told him in one of our final interactions, "hey, when you start trying to explain why my personality is so blemished, just look in the mirror while you're talking -- that's a far better audience for your message."

[innerspirit]

Sometimes I wonder if that is why he moved here………he knew it was an uneducated state and he would stand out as a god? Phhtttt! It became a huge turnoff.

I remember my mother and nephew came to visit us once and within ten minutes of their arrival (after getting unloaded) we were sitting in the living room and he tried to start a conversation with my nephew about the writings of Tolstoy! LOL! My nephew was 12! I thought, in that very moment, this man must show his intelligence to get the upper hand. Of course my nephew sat there with a glazed look in his eyes with his tongue hanging out thinking WTH!

Yeah, missionary work, how noble of him.  Tolstoy.  That's classic (LITERALLY) -- thank you!  

"WAR AND PEACE" you say?  Uhh, no ... .haven't read it -- I lived through it though -- with you as a matter of fact -- does that count?

[seeking balance]

mine is phd sociologist in the department of psychiatry - yes, really.  she used to laugh that most sociologists are socially awkward and they were studying what they were trying to fix in themselves.  she, of course, was not like that.

[innerspirit]

X used to complain that therapists were by definition unethical, in the business of keeping people messed up, so they didn't lose clients. 

Hmmm -- if he'd been honest with a therapist or any of the 8 marriage counselors, he might have made some progress.  And the marriage might have had a shot.

[goldstar]

IS !

Actually, I'm the Psych major -- undergrad. 

During the divorce the ex would spout all sorts of psych lingo -- a big one was... .PROJECTION. . That I was projecting -- huh? It was a real head scratcher because if I called him on his crap -- I was projecting.

He was also a famous Lawyer during the divorce and would spout lawyer lingo -- another huh? what's he talkin' about... .

Then he became all new agey and would spout that also in emails and text that I was involved in the emotional material matrix something or other.

Oh he also became an artist (I like to draw.) He said to the kids that he was better than me. ohkay, who cares?

Oh and since I'm a CPA (only worked in psych for 6 months and then went back to school) he became Mr. Budget and Financial whiz extreme and used financial lingo. Yeah ya think he can get his tax return correct? In the last two years (since he's had to do his own) I've gotten a letter from the IRS, because of a mistake of his. .

The man is a genius in his own mind. 

[MrStinkMeanor]

Mine was very well-versed in psychology. She was actually quite brilliant tho. She had a Hannibal Lecter like ability to see through me and find my weaknesses and insecurities. She also loved to talk about projection and other psych concepts. This is one of the reasons it took me so long to figure out there was something 'wrong.' She seemed so introspective and self-aware and empathetic.

[ve01603]

Mine was a chiropractor and had a lot of psych classes I guess in pre med. 

I get what you are saying.  They know how to push the buttons. 

I think that he stayed with me as long as he did because he liked that I was intelligent and think that he felt that he had met his match.  I think that he would have loved to make me have a nervous break down or commit suicide but I know that I was the most mentally tough person that he had ever known.

[PotentiallyKevin]

I think I can weigh in on this subject even though my ex wasn't into psychology, I AM. I am a psychology major, and let me tell you, every class there are AT LEAST 3 identifiable borderlines! I have spoken to a couple of my teachers about this... .

Kinda nuts when you think about it... .wouldn't studying psychology/being a therapist be enough to be able to see you have a disorder? Borderlines live in a paradoxical world I guess... .

[David Dare]

   Man, some of these recent topics are in my ballpark.  I don't think she actually graduated, but she studied it in college.  She knew all the lingo, but none of it made sense to me n the context of our discussions.  I swear to this day that she knows she's BPD and hides it from the world.

[innerspirit]

I think I can weigh in on this subject even though my ex wasn't into psychology, I AM. I am a psychology major, and let me tell you, every class there are AT LEAST 3 identifiable borderlines! I have spoken to a couple of my teachers about this... .

Kinda nuts when you think about it... .wouldn't studying psychology/being a therapist be enough to be able to see you have a disorder? Borderlines live in a paradoxical world I guess... .

Must be a weird feeling to look around the room and see those with BPD traits.

Well, if it's the disorder that exists to deny itself, what better place for the high-functioning... .? 

Curious, isn't there a phenomenon in Med. School, when students begin to develop psychosomatic symptoms of the diseases they study? 

Maybe it's the opposite for troubled Psych. majors -- could it be sort of covert morbid curiosity while attempting a high-toned means to project away from themselves?

(I saw a therapist who had to be one of the most messed-up people I had ever met.  I finally walked out when he told me I was spending too much time talking to him about myself!)

[seeking balance]

(I saw a therapist who had to be one of the most messed-up people I had ever met.  I finally walked out when he told me I was spending too much time talking to him about myself!)

That actually made me laugh - A therapist telling you that you spend too much time talking about yourself, priceless.

[2010]

There are "understanding" driven people, and there are "respect" driven people. You'll find both in academia. The understanding driven people study academically for understanding of the subject. The respect driven people study academically for respect. Narcissists, are people who are "respect driven". (Respect is attention given to people of a higher status, or value in a society. Respect is antithetical to love by the very nature of it being unequal.)

Narcissists *do what they must* to get the attention to prove to themselves and to others that they exist and are worthy of “being.” Narcissists need attention from others (groups/partners/friends) *or* they have no use for them.  Typically, they have relationships with people who are typically just like them (other narcissists in collusion, who mirror back their false greatness) -OR- they rely on people who are uncomfortable being themselves (Small, painful egos) that they can manipulate.

That's why you'll find a large group in the "helping" profession are Narcissistically inclined.

People who are "understanding driven" get drawn into this dilemma when they enter therapy. These people are the opposite of the Narcissist- who is respect driven and who does not allow the true self to emerge. The understanding based person enters therapy with an intense need to get at the true self. Knowledge seekers, passionate, compassionate, creative and highly questioning of life, these understanding people do not feel comfortable in large groups but are social on an individual basis (people on a one to one basis) Hence they are perfect fodder for individual therapy.

When entering therapy with a Narcissistic analyst, the transference supposedly allows the patient the needed help to solve the mystery of “who they are” yet doesn't account for the narcissistic counter-transference of the therapist's false self of greatness. This fails to allow the understanding driven patient to address the Narcissism (the therapists and their own) and bring them resolution through the initial conflict- which was likely because of having a Narcissistic parent to begin with... . 

[2idealistic]

Not really sure if she was a psych major or not; at one point she told me she was, and now I realize that shesubsequently told me that she was a psych and business double major; subsequent to that her resume (which she wanted me to edit) said that she was a business major.  But I do know that during the period of idealization, when she drew me in and regaled me with her greatest hopes and dreams (some of which were dashed because she "put her ex-husband through law school", she said that what she really wanted to do was to work with children, specifically to counsel children of trauma.  This noble dream should have also been a  , as much later, when she revealed, at the beginning of the end of our relationship, the trigger for painting me black, and therefore the source of her BPD to me--her core wound as a youth was that she was sexually abused by a family member--then, it's quite natural and apparent why her desire would be to counsel children:  to seek her self, and to use it to try and answer the mysteries and torments of her own mind. At the point that she refused to communicate further with me she commented to a mutual friend, a woman who also recognized that she was in the midst of crisis, and had attempted to intervene not only to help preserve our relationship, but as some way of getting inside her head, that while she had been dishonest with me, had cheated on me in reality and emotionally, that what she really wanted to do more than anything was to remove all the men "circling" her and just go back to school to get a graduate degree in counseling.  In reality, it might have been a moment of clarity, and a good choice, but she couldn't allow herself to dismiss the infatuation that she developed for the man she selected to replace me.  She simply couldn't break the BPD playbook.

During this period of radio silence from her, I discovered many sad facts about her family and childhood from her oldest sister, which subsequently allowed me to put the puzzle pieces together and come to terms with the fact that I was entangled in a large gene pool of BPD and NPD.  Very much to 2010's points in this regard, I learned that my ex's mother seemed to have conditioned the oldest daughter and the youngest daughter (my ex) to believe that their self esteem and value was directly correlated to the number of men pursuing them or vying for their attention.  My ex's sister went on to say that it took "very intense therapy" to understand this narcissistic conditioning.  Further, she commented that her mother and my ex both seemed to be functioning with the minds of 19 year-old debutantes.  Coupled with the incidence of sexual abuse, it's little wonder to me now that my ex was drawn toward imagining herself as a counselor and therapist. 

"Physician, heal thyself."

[bluelotus9]

I had an awful 13 year relationship with a qualified psychoanalytic psychotherapist. I met her at a meditation class (oh the irony!) & she gave me her business card (her hand shaking) as we'd been talking about the mind and were obviously both interested in it. I rang her a couple of weeks later on a bored Sunday afternoon, one of the biggest mistakes I ever made. The relationship started off fantastic, great sex, and fawning all over me. One of the first things I noticed was that she picked arguments a lot, then told me she had a history of arguing. Alarm bells started going off, but I thought she's a psychotherapist, so should be ok? How wrong I was. She divorced her Mother at age 11, never spoke to her afterward & visited her once in hospital while she was dying. Her Mother was an argumentative alcoholic. The push/pull hot/cold started straight away, arguments followed by days long ignoring me, then reconcile and impose a further effort to control on me. Time after time, until eventually I stopped arguing back, as there was no point & it just made things worse. I just remained silent till she was done, then she would come over all nice to me, and it somehow gave her a reason to be vulnerable and apologize for mistreating me.

During the arguing it was all black and white, I was all this or always that, & the way her face changed to a spiteful hate filled mask was amazing to see. How could this person say she loved me? I couldn't understand it, but it scared me enough not to get married or move in with her until about 2 years before we split. 

About a year or so before the end of the 'relationship' I was frantically searching the internet trying to figure out what what was wrong, luckily I discovered the book 'Walking on Eggshells' read it over and over, couldn't believe how accurate it was. I made notes all over the book, but had put her on a pedestal by then as she was extremely bright and charming & charismatic to everyone but me. I still doubted myself, still taken in by me being in the wrong - all the doubts she cast on my mind, my relationship with my Mother, using all her knowledge of psychotherapy at her disposal. Its like a Doctor using his (or her) skills to torture someone. I just couldn't believe some one in her profession could be so screwed up - that was my big sticking point that had me self blaming, doubting my self, losing my bearings and what little self esteem I had left... .

[David Dare]

2I,

My ex had the same passion for working with children.  And the reasoning you explained for it, finding herself in the youth she mentored, hit home with me.

My ex also has a similar FOO.  I don't know the entire story, but I know enough, and as you so eloquently stated, I was entangled in the B/NPD mix.  I knew something was awry, but didn't have the proper labels to place on it at the time.

Anyhoo, while we were together, my ex landed a job as an after-school teacher for 1st graders, a program that educates children whose parents work later than regular school hours.  A professional after school babysitter is what she described it as, but she would teach lessons and such.

So she works hard at online school, comes close enough to getting her degree to put on her resume and get a job similar to the one of her dreams.  Her foot in the door, basically.  I was so happy for her, because I knew she wanted it and thought it might help establish a feeling of pride or accomplishment. 

So, what does she do?  About 5 months in she abandons that job so she can move in with her new love interest 80 miles away.  All that work down the tubes.  I couldn't believe it.  Yeah, I accepted the fact when she dumped to go back to her ex on a drunken binge impulse, but then to leave this job just to go onto another guy... .  that's when I knew once and for all that she is PD'd.  Nowadays she works at a pizzeria for minimum wage.

What a waste of time and energy.  Oh well.

[Backtome09]

Yes, for the brief stint he did in a junior college this was his major.

More irony: uBPDm works in behavioral science/ healthcare and uBPDsil is in psych as well.

:'( Feel sorry for their clients.

[innerspirit]

Great point about the narcissistic therapist -- whose big goal is, I guess, personal fame and glory from his power to heal.

Anyone ever read the book TRILBY?  It's about non-singer transformed into a great musical star but only when she was under the influence of a hypnotist named Svengali.  (PHANTOM OF THE OPERA was a spin-off of the same idea.)  I think that's how the word svengali entered the language, for a teacher/director -- even a therapist? -- turned self-serving puppeteer.

[NewStart]

My BPDex has her masters in psychology and is a practicing counselor!

The funny thing was that she was CONSTANTLY reading self help books and self diagnosing/justifying her behaviors and she had a diagnosis for all her ex's... .including me.  I was ADD and needed to be on Ritalin because I never seemed to stay focused enough oh her when she was talking to me... .

My T said that BPD's who are in the 'helping professions' can be some of the most adept as they have a patchwork of seemingly intelligent and logical explanations for behaviors which can pull us even deeper into the gas lighting and FOG.  He went so far as to say 'they can actually be down right diabolical as they can actually counsel you into a false reality... .'

[Believe]

Newstart, I completely agree with your therapist's assessment of those BPDs in the helping professions. My exuBPDbf is a primary care physician. He is soo adept at projecting, manipulating, and gas lighting. It's incredible!

[NewStart]

Believe - The adeptness at projection, manipulation and gaslighting really rings true for me too, but they have the right vernacular to make you believe it... .it all sounds so credible!  My exBPDgf even had me get a scrip for Ritalin... .it was only in figuring it all out with my T after the relationship that it became clear that I wasn't ADD.  It was just her distorted view, her need to have all focus on her and her only. 

[runninggal81]

I was ADD and needed to be on Ritalin because I never seemed to stay focused enough oh her when she was talking to me... .

My T said that BPD's who are in the 'helping professions' can be some of the most adept as they have a patchwork of seemingly intelligent and logical explanations for behaviors which can pull us even deeper into the gas lighting and FOG.  He went so far as to say 'they can actually be down right diabolical as they can actually counsel you into a false reality... .'

LOL, I think I got that I needed to be on medication too--whether it was an antidepressant, antianxiety, or ADD med--I needed it! Ironically, now that I'm out of the relationship and having panic attacks... .

My ex is a school counselor, and had a second master's in psychology. He was too good at diagnosing me and my problems. Ugh, I feel so manipulated.

[seeking balance]

mine was sure to point out that I needed anxiety meds & when it was time for me to go to therapy again.  She never once thought that either of those could be a result of me living in oz.  At one point, I just said can't we just have 1 month with no therapy, no drama, just easy vacation and some dates to see if that would help our relationship.  I had no idea of BPD, needless to say, that was not such a great idea.  At the end of the month, she glared at me "you told me I would feel better after this."  I said, "so, I was wrong, sorry, I thought just relaxing might help."  Gosh, I had no idea about this world then or I never would have suggested no therapy for her or me!

[NewStart]

Creepy looking back at what mine said at the end it was something like, "You should make sure to seek counseling... .and it shouldn't be about me... .seriously make sure it's about you and your growth and not about me... ."

Hmmm, wonder if she knew more about her issues than she let's on?

[runninggal81]

Creepy looking back at what mine said at the end it was something like, "You should make sure to seek counseling... .and it shouldn't be about me... .seriously make sure it's about you and your growth and not about me... ."

Hmmm, wonder if she knew more about her issues than she let's on?

Probably. So many of these people have had extended tours of duty on a therapist's couch that I'm sure "personality disorder," if not BPD specifically, had been discussed at some point.

I was told that I may have a personality disorder, that I definitely needed therapy (I had been seeing a T for some time), and that while he admitted that he had problems, I "had a TON of problems and really needed help and medication."

[NewStart]

Mine went as far as to print out articals and/or copy materials from her office and bring it home for me?  At one point when we were having a difficult time she re-engaged an exbf (which was par for the course if she was mad at me) and when I had concerns about boundaries as she wanted to go on a weekend backpack trip with the guy she brought me this artical, Jealousy the Green Eyed Monster and told my neighbor I had jealousy issues!  I remember thinking are you kidding me this is just not appropriate behavior on your part, once again you are using an ex as a tool to hurt/bother me and justifying it? 

The best part is this is an artical on jealousy from someone who would grab my phone out of my hand if I was texting someone or give me the silent treatment for saying hi to a female or or or... .  ?

[macarroni]

I know this sounds absurd. But it will actually make her a good therapist in ways, as long as she can keep a professional relationship with her clients and is well educated. BPD makes people more sensitive and intuitive to pick up on others feelings and "vibes". This is what being a good therapist is all about. I am a therapist, and a non. My husband, is a therapist as well (almost PhD) and uBPD. He is not admitting and accepting of it, and would never cop to it. I think he knows from things he has said to me however. Because of this I leave things be as far as confronting him with it. It will make things more chaotic. He is one of the best therapists with those who are Chronically mentally ill, and specializes in working with BPD and trauma. (Yes the irony).

How ever, the emotional issues and ups and downs that come with BPD in transparent and high functioning individuals, many times are what make people go into the counseling/social work field. They are trying to self treat and figure out what and why things are going on with them.

Of course, not every high functioning BPD are great therapists who go into the field. But many of them are if they learn how to channel things appropriately and correctly.