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Author Topic: Crazy People Are Better in Bed  (Read 8941 times)
blackandwhite
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« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2010, 07:34:01 PM »

Staff only

Thread is locked for staff review. Thank you for your patience.

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« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2010, 08:32:21 AM »

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This thread is now unlocked. Members are asked to be mindful of our guidelines, including this one on advising and supporting others:

Advising and Supporting Others:  Members shall offer only compassionate, well founded, fact based advice. While it is anticipated that most members have little or no formal training in therapy, members are expected to read and have some reasonable foundation before giving advice to others. Collectively the membership is here to learn and grow as a group and it is important that we not recycle or reinforce incorrect or unhealthy ideas.

Members should offer advice as peer opinions targeted directly to the host of the thread. Members shall be patient and understanding of other members that are in different stages of the learning or healing process.

Members critiquing, or challenging the advise of others should offer their comments in a respectful, positive and constructive manner. Members should respect and embrace the opinions of others, not deride them, and recognize diversity is an important part of the learning process. Forum is the exchange of ideas, not a debate or an argument to be won. Our common interests and goals are what brings us together - let it not be what comes between us.


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« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2010, 08:48:10 AM »

Nicely put B&W.
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« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2010, 08:59:20 AM »

From the moment you meet these people, they're warping your mind and you just don't know it! If you are attracted to these people, then you probably have a codependency. After the luring stage with me, sex wasn't the same. You want it to be, that's all you really want anymore from them. Ad im disengaging, sure i think about it, but thats the catch. How come i dont miss the love,affection,companionship,caring and trust we had? There was none of that! Emotional and mental slave!  Thats what i was, not a partner, boyfriend, companion or even a friend. Used and manipulated from minute one. Its gotta be all about us now, and let the thoughts of this great sex go. Porn lust, you had it, and you have the scars to prove it! Hopefully no diseases from them. No shame in their game! At what cost? Let go of the want, don't personalize the relationship. It was what it was, mind and emotional destruction for someone elses pleasure. Not yours! My ex BPDgf always tried to keep the covers over us, twitched all night in her sleep. Any chance that those could be signs of sexual abuse as a child?  I am in the belief that one of her mothers boyfriends snuck in on her while she was sleeping. She moved out of her moms house and in with a friend when she was 17. She claims that she was just rebelling as all kids do.  That doesn't sound like normal childhood to me!
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« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2010, 09:08:06 AM »

Grim, of course the sex seems great when you feel like Superman. But, it's a con job. Sooner or later it becomes all about them and what you can do for their pleasure. They have established their role as the taker.

I've had normal girlfriends who's desire was to make sure I was satisfied as much as I wanted them to be. It was fun, exciting, and MUCH better than what I have with my uBPDw, even at the beginning.
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« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2010, 09:20:46 AM »

Mine was most certainly NOT a superstar in bed... .It was fine to say the least, sometimes awesome but most of the time "just OK" He always wanted me to say he was the "best" I ever had. I would never say that because I thought it was unfair to do comparisons. It was like he strived to do everything sexual like a pro but it I knew he was doing stuff because he thought I would like it, not because we were making love and pleasing each other. Eventually, he used our sex life as a platform to attack me. Would say things like my belly was in the way (I'm a normal weight and I'm really tall) I was to loose for him to feel, my technique was terrible; he got more pleasure from a $20 hooker. By then, of course, I was so paranoid; I didn't want to be sexual with him at all. He would masturbate to porn and then come to bed and take forever to finish, but it was because I was a terrible lover. The hang ups were numerous for me by then. The man I am seeing now really got a sexual scaredy cat. He was so kind and we worked through some stuff, NOW the sex is awesome, he is awesome in bed... It’s true giving and receiving of pleasure.  I still get stabs of insecurity about sex but It SOO much better. My ex really did a number on me…
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« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2010, 09:34:51 AM »

I dunno... .how many partners do we have to have before we can generalize that one segment of the population is better? 

Again, we must have missed that great sex boat, cause it was a study in mediocrity here, but I think I could certainly safely toss out the crazy moniker for what went down here in the past year. 

To me, love/intimacy/sex are inseparable.  Each component contributes to the experience.  In the initial, (all too short and encumbered by distance) time with my exbf, the intimacy/sex we did share was good physically and very meaningful to me.  Was it over the top porn star sex?  Absolutely not.  Did I care?  Absolutely not.  I wanted the loving, intimate, sexual connection with him and I had it.  Were we enjoying ourselves and happy?  Absolutely.  Never heard any complaints, and usually one can "tell". 

Honesty, define better in bed?  Define great sex?  I think everyone has differing ideas on what trips their trigger anyway. 

Personally, my ideal of great sex is the mutual passionate and loving enjoyment of each other in a safe, sane, caring, stable, loving relationship.  Now *that* rocks my world.   

I don't want crazy.  It frightens and repulses me.   

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« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2010, 09:48:48 AM »

There were some technical aspects of the sex with my ex that were very good, but there was an insincerity and weird need to it. Not a passionate one, more of a self affirming need. There was little or no intimacy.

I recall saying I love you during sex several times, and when she'd say it back it wouldn't be anything like the passionate sounds she was making. It was like she put the sex on pause for a moment, gave me my line back, then went right back into it. I stopped saying it after a while.

I think there was a real schism there between what she and I wanted. I wanted an even playing field, where she got as much as she gave, as much as possible. She seemed to want to make me happy, and therefore give her validation, and her pleasure was sort of separate from that. Alternately she longed for more painful and submissive roles. I have done this sort of thing before, and I think the play aspect of it is fun, but with her it all seemed so pushy and desperate and passionless. She'd ask for something kinky in the same way she'd ask to see some a movie she liked.

I honestly had more trouble with keeping an erection with her than anyone else until I jumped head first into denial about it. She was gorgeous, willing to do anything at all to please, indulged me in my own likes and fantasies, but there was always something behind it all that I distrusted. Artificial.

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« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2010, 09:56:57 AM »

Hey Grim, 

I wanna stick directly to the topic header.  In my experience... .YES!  That is a general statement and there are exceptions to every side of this conversation,  but yeah all of them were really good from a strictly SEX staNPDoint.  Some of them sucked at intimacy,  some sucked at communicating needs,  I sucked at some of it... .whatever... .was the sex with them some of the best i've had... .you bet. 

Was a lot of it driven by need?  Probably.  Was a lot of it mirroring and stuff like that?  Yeah.  But you said crazy people are better in bed... .i say YES! 

I've been with some healthy girls too.   Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)   That sounds funny to me when i type it like that.  And they were awesome too.  I think a lot of the good or not idea comes from our own expectations. 

To be quite honest,  I was pretty self conscious about myself growing up so when I actually had sex... .WHOO HOO!  I don't even know if it was good or not,  but I didn't have expectations so it was AWESOME!

But... .I can see where in the beginning most were trying to feel desired and valid and once they felt secure in that regard,  sht changed.   

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« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2010, 12:05:13 PM »

Hey Grim, 

I wanna stick directly to the topic header.  In my experience... .YES!  That is a general statement and there are exceptions to every side of this conversation,  but yeah all of them were really good from a strictly SEX staNPDoint.  Some of them sucked at intimacy,  some sucked at communicating needs,  I sucked at some of it... .whatever... .was the sex with them some of the best i've had... .you bet. 

Was a lot of it driven by need?  Probably.  Was a lot of it mirroring and stuff like that?  Yeah.  But you said crazy people are better in bed... .i say YES! 

I've been with some healthy girls too.   Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)   That sounds funny to me when i type it like that.  And they were awesome too.  I think a lot of the good or not idea comes from our own expectations. 

To be quite honest,  I was pretty self conscious about myself growing up so when I actually had sex... .WHOO HOO!  I don't even know if it was good or not,  but I didn't have expectations so it was AWESOME!

But... .I can see where in the beginning most were trying to feel desired and valid and once they felt secure in that regard,  sht changed.   

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Thanks for the direct answer   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

The title and original header of this thread was supposed to be slightly tongue in cheek, so to speak.  I still meant it-- as I explained in my first two posts, the best sex I've ever had has been with disordered people, and I freely admit that I'm mood disordered myself and used to be BP, so however that works-- I might have just have had to have someone I could relate to, I don't know.  Basically I was trying to get the ball rolling on examining the allure of crazy people.  They do have something about them.  Bipolar women, for instance, tend to act out sexually when manic (not down to a person, but it's a tendency across the bipolar female population).

I'd also like to add that not all crazies are sadistic ***holes.  Many of them are quite pleasant, especially if they're on their meds and/or in therapy.  I meant to include them in the survey as well.

Grim

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« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2010, 12:34:40 PM »

I would have to say Yes and No.

Yes, in the beginning it was superb.  No holds barred anything goes all the time, never had a woman wear me out before.  But it was her intenisty of the moment that got me the most.  I am one of those people that need an emotional connection for sex to be really good and she gave the illusion that she loved me.

But after awhile, about the time she began cheating, it was just going through the motions.  She kept asking me "where are you?"  Which is funny because that is what i wanted to ask her but i knew where her mind really was. 

One of the most painful things she said to me was that she just kept me around because i could get her off.  It was probably the only truthful things as well.  She told me once that she used to have difficulty reaching climax before getting with me.  And she used to take care of me in the bedroom as well, used to.

But, in the end, NO.  Who wants to do everything to please a crazy partner in bed when she didn't care about pleasing you in return?
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« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2010, 12:39:09 PM »

Grim, of course the sex seems great when you feel like Superman. But, it's a con job. Sooner or later it becomes all about them and what you can do for their pleasure. They have established their role as the taker.

I've had normal girlfriends who's desire was to make sure I was satisfied as much as I wanted them to be. It was fun, exciting, and MUCH better than what I have with my uBPDw, even at the beginning.

Well, my exBP never got to the point of taking more than he gave.  It would have been easier to leave if he had.  I freely admit the sex, although it became less frequent and more vanilla with time, was still awesome when I left, and that HURT big time for months.  Serious withdrawals.

I don't understand this idea that I must have problems with intimacy because I enjoyed sex with a pwBPD.  I have no problems with intimacy.  I was codependent, which is what was unfortunately called for to make our relationship work at all, dysfunctional as THAT was, but problems with intimacy?  No way.

Grim
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« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2010, 12:41:26 PM »

I generally don't like to go into this, but I've found the opposite to be true.  Even if the crazy ones are good in the beginning, it turns into fewer and fewer opportunities to getting into bed.  I compare to the non-crazy relationships I've had.  The in bed part got better and better and better.  True love making.   You may ask why I am here?  I was young, foolish and we were a continent apart.  I foolish thought what I had found was easy to find again.  She did too.
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« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2010, 12:43:03 PM »

I would have to say Yes and No.

Yes, in the beginning it was superb.  No holds barred anything goes all the time, never had a woman wear me out before.  But it was her intenisty of the moment that got me the most.  I am one of those people that need an emotional connection for sex to be really good and she gave the illusion that she loved me.

But after awhile, about the time she began cheating, it was just going through the motions.  She kept asking me "where are you?"  Which is funny because that is what i wanted to ask her but i knew where her mind really was. 

One of the most painful things she said to me was that she just kept me around because i could get her off.  It was probably the only truthful things as well.  She told me once that she used to have difficulty reaching climax before getting with me.  And she used to take care of me in the bedroom as well, used to.

But, in the end, NO.  Who wants to do everything to please a crazy partner in bed when she didn't care about pleasing you in return?

Geez, what a horrible thing to say.  I'm so sorry.  She wasn't just crazy, she was a b****.  Not all crazies are like that.  Sorry you got a bad one.

Grim
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« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2010, 12:45:10 PM »

I generally don't like to go into this, but I've found the opposite to be true.  Even if the crazy ones are good in the beginning, it turns into fewer and fewer opportunities to getting into bed.  I compare to the non-crazy relationships I've had.  The in bed part got better and better and better.  True love making.   You may ask why I am here?  I was young, foolish and we were a continent apart.  I foolish thought what I had found was easy to find again.  She did too.

x

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« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2010, 12:53:29 PM »

Truly, the best I ever had was probably the least crazy of all... .and he was amazing because he truly cared and was truly loving.  Like HDN said... .true lovemaking. 
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« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2010, 01:00:35 PM »

That's what we are all looking for... .amongst many other qualities... .
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« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2010, 01:05:56 PM »

How about the other side of the coin?

Most of the people around here who get involved with pwBPD seem to be caring, attentive, passionate people. What if a lot of the draw of the sex is an extension of mirroring? Nothing can be mirrored perfectly, and I'm sure that some of them are better than others at it, but from the perspective of how their "personalties" are built (amalgamations of scraps of other people's traits) perhaps this is how their sexual life goes as well.

They often mirror and idealize every other good aspect of who we are, why not this too? Sex would become some sort of extension of masturbation, with them throwing back at you all of the things that you want to be and aim for in bed.

This particular part of things was wrought with pitfalls for my ex, as she had suffered sexual abuse. Her ideas of what I needed weren't quite right, but it worked with other men. I've spent too much time with women who have suffered sexual abuse to go blindly into that particular forest. It may have made me more sensitive to certain aspects that are overlooked when most people are just enjoying themselves.
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« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2010, 01:07:38 PM »

Truly, the best I ever had was probably the least crazy of all... .and he was amazing because he truly cared and was truly loving.  Like HDN said... .true lovemaking. 

What happened to him?  None of my business and you don't have to answer that.

Grim
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« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2010, 01:14:21 PM »

How about the other side of the coin?

Most of the people around here who get involved with pwBPD seem to be caring, attentive, passionate people. What if a lot of the draw of the sex is an extension of mirroring? Nothing can be mirrored perfectly, and I'm sure that some of them are better than others at it, but from the perspective of how their "personalties" are built (amalgamations of scraps of other people's traits) perhaps this is how their sexual life goes as well.

They often mirror and idealize every other good aspect of who we are, why not this too? Sex would become some sort of extension of masturbation, with them throwing back at you all of the things that you want to be and aim for in bed.

This particular part of things was wrought with pitfalls for my ex, as she had suffered sexual abuse. Her ideas of what I needed weren't quite right, but it worked with other men. I've spent too much time with women who have suffered sexual abuse to go blindly into that particular forest. It may have made me more sensitive to certain aspects that are overlooked when most people are just enjoying themselves.

Good point.  BPD IS about becoming you, basically.  I remember my exBP telling me I was the first person he'd ever been with that he could totally just be himself with-- that he finally felt like he wasn't putting on an act.  Confusing.  Maybe he really felt that way in the beginning, or at least thought he did.  Of course as the relationship progressed he regressed back to more of a selfish, self-absorbed and angry weirdo.  AGH!  Such a total mind****!  Who the h*** WAS this guy?

Grim
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« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2010, 01:25:48 PM »

Grim, mine said the same.  To be honest the the real her might be that sad, desolate, empty thing she was when she was on one of her many downs.  How I ache for that sad, lonely girl whom i tried to rescue.  She was so nice to me when i would cheer her up.  

But the her abusive, cheating, lying self revealed itself.  It is my opinion that the sad girl act was tailor made to trigger the rescuer in me.  Boy, did she know her prey.
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« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2010, 01:36:52 PM »

I'm surprised there aren't more people weighing in with an affirmation to my original thread header.  There are always, always threads going concerning how much people are missing sex with their BP partners-- how they were the best they ever had, etc.  Mine certainly was, and it's because he's an utter nutter.

Grim
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« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2010, 01:41:34 PM »

I'm surprised there aren't more people weighing in with an affirmation to my original thread header.  There are always, always threads going concerning how much people are missing sex with their BP partners-- how they were the best they ever had, etc.  Mine certainly was, and it's because he's an utter nutter.

Grim

I think sex is always an unusual issue in BPD.  Mine isn't good at it, but she gets tons of validation if it happens.  So, it is very important to her (almost more than anything else), she just isn't skilled.  Maybe it is her NPD that just expects I will do all the work and she shouldn't have to.
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« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2010, 01:49:20 PM »

Truly, the best I ever had was probably the least crazy of all... .and he was amazing because he truly cared and was truly loving.  Like HDN said... .true lovemaking. 

What happened to him?  None of my business and you don't have to answer that.

Grim

He lived 3K miles away and had small children.  My children were on the verge of adulthood.  Neither of us would/could leave our kids, and the kids wouldn't or couldn't come with.  We either left our kids or left each other.  The kids won... .

I guess it's a credit to us that we made it 4.5 years in a long distance relationship. 
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« Reply #54 on: December 22, 2010, 01:57:41 PM »

Truly, the best I ever had was probably the least crazy of all... .and he was amazing because he truly cared and was truly loving.  Like HDN said... .true lovemaking. 

What happened to him?  None of my business and you don't have to answer that.

Grim

He lived 3K miles away and had small children.  My children were on the verge of adulthood.  Neither of us would/could leave our kids, and the kids wouldn't or couldn't come with.  We either left our kids or left each other.  The kids won... .

I guess it's a credit to us that we made it 4.5 years in a long distance relationship. 

I'm sorry.  What a horrible choice to have to make.

Grim
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« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2010, 01:59:43 PM »

Truly, the best I ever had was probably the least crazy of all... .and he was amazing because he truly cared and was truly loving.  Like HDN said... .true lovemaking.  

What happened to him?  None of my business and you don't have to answer that.

Grim

He lived 3K miles away and had small children.  My children were on the verge of adulthood.  Neither of us would/could leave our kids, and the kids wouldn't or couldn't come with.  We either left our kids or left each other.  The kids won... .

I guess it's a credit to us that we made it 4.5 years in a long distance relationship.  

I'm sorry.  What a horrible choice to have to make.

Grim

Yep.  And my mother was sinking into Alzheimer's.  I couldn't leave her either.  It was a no win... .people often don't realize what they're getting into with a distance relationship.  Either one of you is going to move, or it's just a matter of time... .

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« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2010, 02:07:36 PM »

Truly, the best I ever had was probably the least crazy of all... .and he was amazing because he truly cared and was truly loving.  Like HDN said... .true lovemaking.  

What happened to him?  None of my business and you don't have to answer that.

Grim

He lived 3K miles away and had small children.  My children were on the verge of adulthood.  Neither of us would/could leave our kids, and the kids wouldn't or couldn't come with.  We either left our kids or left each other.  The kids won... .

I guess it's a credit to us that we made it 4.5 years in a long distance relationship.  

I'm sorry.  What a horrible choice to have to make.

Grim

Yep.  And my mother was sinking into Alzheimer's.  I couldn't leave her either.  It was a no win... .people often don't realize what they're getting into with a distance relationship.  Either one of you is going to move, or it's just a matter of time... .

If it was meant to be, is there any chance you could make it work in the future?

Grim
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« Reply #57 on: December 22, 2010, 02:11:06 PM »

Truly, the best I ever had was probably the least crazy of all... .and he was amazing because he truly cared and was truly loving.  Like HDN said... .true lovemaking.  

What happened to him?  None of my business and you don't have to answer that.

Grim

He lived 3K miles away and had small children.  My children were on the verge of adulthood.  Neither of us would/could leave our kids, and the kids wouldn't or couldn't come with.  We either left our kids or left each other.  The kids won... .

I guess it's a credit to us that we made it 4.5 years in a long distance relationship.  

I'm sorry.  What a horrible choice to have to make.

Grim

Yep.  And my mother was sinking into Alzheimer's.  I couldn't leave her either.  It was a no win... .people often don't realize what they're getting into with a distance relationship.  Either one of you is going to move, or it's just a matter of time... .

If it was meant to be, is there any chance you could make it work in the future?

Grim

Nope.  He reached the end of his rope.  By the time the end came, it was a meltdown of frustration and pain.  It's 3 years past, he's moved on.  Seemed we both did. 

Had a call from his mom a few months ago.   She said she missed me and would always love me. 

Hard as it was, it was the right thing.  We would have been torn apart with one loss or the other.  My sister is far from her kids (they're adults) and cries for them daily.  I hear her pain and I know that for whatever reason, it just wasn't meant to be... .
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quicksilver
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« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2010, 02:12:04 PM »

I think there are good reasons for why some of what crazy brings to the table also results in what many would consider good sex.  But as mentioned previously, physically it might be fun/exciting/uninhibited/dynamic/etc - it often doesn't include true lasting intimacy in other ways.  You CAN get both from a non-crazy person - it just so happens that most of us have responsibilities, fears, insecurities, not such a strong desire to be the best ever in bed to hook someone, etc - that we can't suddenly shut off (or turn on as is the case in the last one) to be this amazing sex dynamo.  There's also the mirroring (as previously mentioned), probably ego stroking (among other things!), etc, etc - all of which doesn't last.  But many of the same end-results can be developed/created/built-over-time in a good healthy relationship.

I've been with about 10 people.  Two of them were disordered.  The first of this second group was my best to that point - but it was only because it physically felt the best and she was willing to do/try anything (and did a lot of initiating at first along those lines - whereas most other women I've been with were more passive - probably partly because we were younger) - mostly I was just a warm body she could use to gain her pleasure.  The next "crazy one" had some elements of coolness/fun/excitement/unique stuff - but it certainly wasn't that great overall - and I was very uncomfortable with her demeanor at times - it was sometimes childlike or desperate or needy or ... . [shudder]   - fortunately that didn't last long (by my own choice).  My last partner (not crazy) is by far the best ever - and it just keeps getting better and better.  Finally, I'm not crazy and several of my partners have said that I was their best ever (even the first disordered one, which seem to bother her to no end because she didn't have the power/control in that area she wanted).

It really depends on what's important to you, your associations (previous and current), what you like and don't like, etc.  IMO, crazy people aren't necessarily any better or worse at any one specific thing (as a group) - just different.

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Mystic
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« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2010, 02:27:54 PM »

I dunno... .seems to me you'd have to be with scads of people before you could paint with a big broad brush.  

From the few I've been with I couldn't say either way and I just think everyone's different.  Plenty of "normal" folks have a tiger in the tank (I do and I sure hope I'm at least semi normal), and plenty of nutters are probably a real sleeper.  

ex was a "bucket o' crazy, extra crispy", and honestly, not all that.  

I don't want to presume that either being normal or being with normal would be dull.  Matter of fact, I'd be tickled to death to have a healthy relationship with someone stable.  Now there's an exciting, novel, enticing, thought to get one salivating... .
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