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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: 2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel  (Read 7445 times)
bpdlover
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« Reply #90 on: May 15, 2013, 10:41:45 PM »

I was intoxicated period. That meant I did not exercise my best judgement and on some level knew she was unstable. I certainly did not know the dark vengeful person that appeared from the shadows once I was captured. I cannot blame myself for that, but I take responsibility for engaging in a partnership that I felt may be flawed. I wanted so badly to believe in the fantasy of love. Not the most intelligent thing I've done.
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Chazz
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« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2013, 01:06:28 AM »

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

If you believe that your BPD partner was experiencing the relationship in the same way that you were or that they are feeling the same way you do right now, don’t count on it. This will only serve to confuse you and make it harder to understand what is really happening.

I am slowly accepting that she NEVER felt the same way I did. She may have used the same words as I did, but they meant something entirely different to her. "I love you" meant to her: In this split second I feel love for you. But, when you're out of sight, or someone "better" comes along, I don't love you anymore. She couldn't carry me in her heart (object constancy) unless I was present and/or attending to her never ending need for approval, validation, emotional support... .  

When any relationship breaks down, it’s often because the partners are on a different “page” – but much more so when your partner suffers with borderline personality disorder traits.

Over time, her splitting, insults, belittling, snide remarks, rages, out of the blue NCs, demands, indifference to my needs and concerns, her unremitting depression/anxiety, and my perpetual walking on eggshells wore me down. I grew quieter, less amorous, my innate sense of humor evaporated, I was tense, on edge, exhausted. Her source of narcissistic supply (me) was drying up, so she moved on to the next shiny new person.     

Unknown to you, there were likely significant periods of shame, fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it’s a culmination of feelings that have been brewing in the relationship.

Yes, yes, yes ! ! ! ! At the end I was flabbergasted by the extent of the anger and resentment she harbored towards me. She raged for hours over unimportant, incidental things. She blamed me for things I had absolutely nothing to do with. I was emotionally and psychologically brought to my knees by the depth of her rancor. It wasn't that we were on different pages, we were in entirely different universes.

Untangling why I allowed myself to be so horribly used and abused by someone in the name of "love", is the only thing that can restore me to sanity at this point.   
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jacknifeles
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« Reply #92 on: May 17, 2013, 03:24:37 AM »

Very good observations by everyone, and this "myth" has been the most troubling for me also, during my detachment.

I was so confused about how she would think me being temporarily upset/angry about something was me hating her entirely. Even a look from me that she didn't like would trigger her. I knew it felt "off" but I didn't want to leave her. I loved her, right? For the longest I felt it was all my fault as well, and yeah I tried to change some things about myself. Now I know nothing I changed would have helped. She was fully aware of her "flipping out" as I called it once and she at one point even tried to rationalize that it wouldn't happen again, or if it did happen again, she would behave differently. When I asked her why she did that she just said, "I don't know". I just think at this point she doesn't want to deal with the pain of facing her illness, let alone treatment. So she will continue to see and feel everything different no matter who comes next. The cycle continues... .  

Myself pretty much summed up a great deal of what I went through and felt at the time. I just knew things were not on an equal playing field concerning love. Her actions and words just didn't show that reciprocation at all times. 

In the end she actually told me she was looking for a different "type" of love. More spiritual. Like my love wasn't good enough or something. Just more made us bs in her head to warrant her moving on with a clear conscience. I literally witnessed a complete transformation of this woman I fell in love with. As I see it with clear eyes now, it seems so tragic and sad, but also scary at the same time.

More love = pain. Who would have thought?

Thank you, you have summed up my relationship to a T
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careman
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« Reply #93 on: May 20, 2013, 11:42:04 PM »

I was madly in love with her still so it was all fantasy in her head. I told her that once and that really put her in a rage. If I kept asking questions she would start accusing me of not allowing her to express her emotions! To recap... . she is upset... . I try to find out what's wrong. She can't tell me. I keep questioning. She tells me she is mad at me because I keep questioning her and all she is trying to do is express her emotions! Ugggghhhhh!

My xuBPDgf wanted badly to be seen/heard/known. "There is a little girl inside of me screaming 'see me, see me, see me' " she said. Questions to her was oftentimes evidence to the contrary. Questions = proof of not being seen/heard/known. Yielding in her a sense of disconnect, frustration, 'I give up',  and from there her abandonment response could kick in starting off a push-pull cycle.

Perhaps that's what was at play between the two of you.

/Careman
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Hikaru
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« Reply #94 on: June 14, 2013, 01:01:58 AM »

even though you wrote this a long time ago, it was super helpful to me. Thanks so much,

H
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twester65

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« Reply #95 on: July 13, 2013, 01:10:38 AM »

During the break-up my ex uBPDgf told me "You don't know this but I resented you for a year." That hit me like a brick. I had no idea what the hell she was talking about because she was still being "cute" with me almost all the time and going about the relationship as usual.


And then I got replaced.

I got mine about two months after the final break-up. For the first two months, he "threatened" suicide. I grew tired of it and demanded that he move out of our neighborhood (we live 100yds from each other). It was messed up. I was drunk.

When I did that he unloaded all this stuff that he "had thought at one point or other in [our] relationship". And he actually said "you served your purpose".

To be honest, I threw a lot of stuff at him during several of our many break-ups. The worst was at the end when he made like he was trying to get back with me and I realized he was anything but sincere. I said things that were designed to make him not want to come back. I felt badly in the weeks after and apologized. He's never apologized to me (which is fine, I get it).

I'm moving out of state this week for reasons other than him. I'm looking forward to not continually looking over my shoulder.

Thanks for the article, it was helpful.
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bpdlover
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« Reply #96 on: September 25, 2013, 08:29:19 PM »

I think we have to be careful not to romanticise things. I used to fall for anything that looked attractive and sounded "sweet" or sensitive, believing much of it was spoken from the heart. Watch and listen carefully and you will notice many differences.
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damage control
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« Reply #97 on: November 09, 2013, 08:44:09 PM »

Untangling why I allowed myself to be so horribly used and abused by someone in the name of "love", is the only thing that can restore me to sanity at this point.   

I am in exactly this space/place.

I need to understand how and why I allowed him to reel me in like he did and how and why I didn't erect the boundaries that were obviously needed but rather, bowed to his every whim just so he would continue to adore me ... anything for that adoration. it makes me feel sick that I allowed it all this time, and even sicker that I am not through it yet and still crave him, this very second when he is actually staying the weekend with his new lover (he went on his first date with her the very night he dumped me).

I need to understand what he filled in me and how not to let anybody else every do this to me again.
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Surnia
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« Reply #98 on: November 10, 2013, 01:10:01 AM »

I need to understand how and why I allowed him to reel me in like he did and how and why I didn't erect the boundaries that were obviously needed but rather, bowed to his every whim just so he would continue to adore me ... anything for that adoration.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

To acknowledge this is a great first step.
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“Don’t shrink. Don’t puff up. Stand on your sacred ground.”  Brené Brown
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« Reply #99 on: November 10, 2013, 01:25:08 AM »

Letting go of the belief *that my BPD partner feels the same way as I feel*

... .this is THE hardest part of all this for me.


Why? Because nothing in my experience of being human can really grasp this.

In the Universe I lived in prior to this experience, and with all the other humans I've interacted with so far in my life, I had a belief about how humans are. And I believed that we all had empathy and compassion. Hurts yes, blocks, yes, but underneath it basic empathy and compassion.

I did not know someone could literally split, could be unable to see things other than in B/W, could turn from "love" to virtual hate at the flick of an invisible switch, could revise events and memories to fit a "black" view of things and be utterly convinced it was truth.

Even though intellectually I now understand that this is a neurological emotional wiring problem, and an ILLNESS, and it makes sense intellectually -- on a heart level, a felt level, it still feels CRAZY and unbelievable and my heart can't really make sense of it. 

I've been struggling with the pain of 1000s of happy memories which flooded and tormented me in the first weeks and which still overwhelm me daily and bring up huge amounts of grief... .because I have all these HAPPY memories -- how could this BE? The loss and disconnect has been SO very very hard. 

One thing I found somewhat helpful... .somewhere on these boards is a tool for dealing with emotional memories. A few days ago, I read this article and I've started to do the following. When a memory of him comes, I mentally try to visualize a tattoo on his forehead that says: ":)isordered thinking" to combat my idealized memories of him as a normal, loving, healthy person. Also, when I have a memory of a happy time we shared, I try to visualize in green letters the words: "Emotional 3-y-o" above the image of that moment... .to remind myself... .yes, it was a happy moment for him... .his 3-y-o was happy, it was all good... .that's why you experienced him as happy and "loving" - this helps me to remember that as far as he was able (with emotional regulation of a 3-y-o) he was "loving" in that moment BUT that it was just a moment-to-moment thing, because things were easy and fun in that moment, the 3-y-o could be happy. This helps me remember how it's possible that he could STOP loving me, even hate me in spite of all those happy times: "Emotional 3-y-o". Although as one friend told me, even some 3 y-os she knows would have more capacity for empathy.

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zkirtz

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« Reply #100 on: November 10, 2013, 06:52:56 AM »

Well... .The first time I realized this myth, I realized it was twofold.

We did not only did not share feelings. Worse. His description of my feelings were as irrational as my description of his feelings and that these could not come together.

I used to think he was the sad, troubled guy. He used to think I kept leaving him unless he did his best for me. He did all sorts of things that weren't needed.

Then this happened: I stood in the kitchen, I was doing the dishes. He was sitting on the couch and expected me to watch tv with him. He said "Must you do the dishes now?" and I replied "yes". passive-aggresively.

I knew I should not have said yes the way I said it but it was already too late. He came rushing in the kitchen, opened the drawer, got the big big knife out and I saw it and calmed him down. I reassured that I did not mean anything ugly with that.

(I learned that this was the best way to deal with violence, not to scream and run, but to reassure and sush)

He put the knife back in the drawer and then I thought -time to get the hell out of here- I went to the room where we kept bags and coats, I grabbed my bag. "Are you leaving me?" No no,

I lied. Yes you are leaving me. He screamed. And there was the knife again. "You are leaving me".

As he was blocking my way, I could not get out. I hid in the corner, and put the clothes dryer between us as a shield.

(here it comes)

"Put the knife down. There is nothing wrong, just put the knife down"

":)on't give me that, you're threatening me."

Right! He says I am threatening him, while I am sitting there in the corner, dead frightened, hiding behind the clothes dryer, being chased after with a very, very big knife.

"From where I stand, it looks like you are threatening me... ."

"NO! You are threatening me... .  With leaving".

That is when I knew this would never be right. He is able to reinterpret everything in this world according to the "I am abandoned"-paradigm. Even when it is chrystal clear that it is the other way round. I could never not-abandon him according to his logic. His logic and mine cannot commute.

And then I knew I had to get the hell out and the only way I could do that, was by reassuring him that I would never leave.

So that was what I did. I just said no, let's watch tv for a little bit. And with a racing heart beat I've watched the silliest programme that I would never want to watch. Do you want something to drink? I said, I went to the kitchen again preparing my runawaybag. Then I came back. And as if nothing happened, I said, I had to go to the bathroom. And I left the front door, ran like hell, he came after me, screamed something. I took the first tram to somewhere I did not care. Just away. I think I booked a hotel that night. Oh brother. I am so glad I got out. It was... .It flashed upon me it would always be like this. I could not have ever corrected myself and my fears because what needed correction was not so much my behaviour as his behaviour and his fears and those were not to be fixed.

Life is just so much better now. I can do my things. Live my life. I am so glad we did not have children. That would make fleeing so much more difficult. I strongly respect everyone here and the terrible stories I have heard.
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Changingman
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« Reply #101 on: November 10, 2013, 08:16:04 AM »

Same as all the other posts here, this is really important stuff. When I talk of love when I was with my x I now think, she was afraid of intimacy because I would see the hollow shell inside her. I would see beyond the pantomime act and see the insect heart of her, fake feelings, false persona, others clothes, reflected thoughts, SO interests, pretend friends and vacuous RSs. What was real about them: self medication for their neediness, intense sexual act, brutal drinking till she passed out, self glorification, pitiful victim hood, abuse and control, creating a Frankenstein monster of the people who try to love them, dominating and submitting to their latest amazing victim to be. I feel sorry for them but I feel more sorrow and empathy (BPDs look it up) for the people in their lives they have shattered. At the end I could tell she had been enjoying my torture, like she had won by smashing up the dolls house. The love I felt was maybe the reflected best of me that I had forgotten for a while.
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maxen
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« Reply #102 on: November 10, 2013, 08:41:51 AM »

perhaps it's providential? i really really really needed to read this right now. i'm coming to the point where i'll have to move forward with the divorce and the fact that she just isn't wired for emotional intercommunication must trump the strong, lingering idea i have that we could still work it out, if we just sat down and talked sincerely and not out of bitterness, and that we could repair the damage we've both done and resume our life if we agreed to be forgiving and generous towards each other. it can't happen.

of all the excellent insights on these pages this one was big with me:

They are so afraid of being abandoned they leave us, they think we hate them if we disagree at all.

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Changingman
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« Reply #103 on: November 10, 2013, 08:57:24 AM »

Maxen,

I truly hope you can work this out. From what I have read if you can get her into therapy long term you may have a shot.
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maxen
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« Reply #104 on: November 11, 2013, 06:37:13 AM »

thanks for that changingman. of course that's what i'd like to happen but the chances are microscopically slim by now.
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« Reply #105 on: November 15, 2013, 08:52:25 PM »

The undeniable PROOF that my uBPDx did not and DOES NOT feel the same way I feel: the devaluation and discard. That he could do that to someone he has "loved" for 7 years makes it impossible for me to hang on to any belief that he feels the same way I feel. No one with a shred of integrity would treat someone like that. No one who feels the same way I feel would behave this way with someone they barely know, let alone an intimate partner.

Up until that tramautizing shock, I actually believed he DID feel the same way I did, but just had "trouble" expressing it at times. I believed he DID truly love me and care about me, but just "slipped up" sometimes because of his old unconscious patterns. I totally believed he wanted the same things as me: a solid, lasting, rich relationship, personal growth... .and was genuinely willing to work through the challenges.

But the radical about-face in the D & D showed me LOUDER than anything else could that he does NOT feel the same way I feel, and likely never did. Have to keep revisiting the discard and reminding myself that doing this to someone you "love" is showing your cards face-up. No wishful thinking or fantasizing can take away the reality of what he did and what it says about him, his values, and his idea of "love." 

I have no illusions whatsoever about this myth.

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Changingman
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« Reply #106 on: November 17, 2013, 06:02:18 AM »

thanks for that changingman. of course that's what i'd like to happen but the chances are microscopically slim by now.

With this condition they were always slim to none, or they wouldn't have the condition. I'm now starting to get to the sad stage of realising what happens in all her RS's. She seemed so child like and innocent in many ways that I thought the impulsive actions were not meant to harm. Now I think to do these things she must make me first evil, then she can do whatever she desires with no come back, occasional shame and guilt that turns to rage. 'You're not my Dad!'

Good luck with your decision
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Ironmanrises
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« Reply #107 on: November 17, 2013, 06:18:46 AM »

This belief was shattered in round 2 when she got triggered in exactly the time frame i had predicted when i allowed her back in. All her god awful behavior towards me and only me that followed that early April day, was proof cemented into my heart on how foolish i was to ever have thought otherwise.
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Changingman
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« Reply #108 on: November 17, 2013, 07:09:49 AM »

This post probably should read ' Belief that your BPD partner feels, thinks, acts and desires the same as you'

Sad really
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houseofswans
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« Reply #109 on: November 17, 2013, 12:18:53 PM »

This post probably should read ' Belief that your BPD partner feels, thinks, acts and desires the same as you'

Sad really

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #110 on: April 19, 2014, 11:38:04 AM »

One of the hardest things for me to deal with in my breakup, was that I have all these strong deep rooted feelings and memories of such intense love and idealization myself that now I am having to cope with the loss of after she has ended her relationship with me, but I already see and know the future on her part as so quickly after our split, I am already anticipating her moving onto the next (I'm tempted to say victim :/) individual just as she did with me in the beginning of our relationship where I truly felt and believed what she told me that I was different and she saw a future with me and did not with the former partner who I guess I sort of "stole her away from". The thing is we met initially through this app that is also a game with a chat platform, and she had disclosed to me in the beginning that she had another relationship that was formed through this app prior to the one right before our relationship, and therefore I know and can see now where this is headed being at least the third link in this possibly infinite chain of intense relationships. And thats what I am going to have to struggle with as part of my detaching, is I am already curious to want to follow her and know if and when she will begin courting someone new (as this breakup is very very fresh so it hasn't happened just yet but I do believe it is imminent), although I know that is playing with fire and only going to hurt and devastate me even further, I feel weak in trying to resist checking, and perhaps there's a bit of comfort so far that there isn't someone new YET, but again, this is literally so recent that I don't doubt it takes more than a week most likely before shes moved on to someone new as if nothing between us ever happened and no memory of our " love" whatsoever. That facet of BPD is probably one of the hardest for me to cope with in detaching. I don't know what difference it has to make to me whether she is grieving and suffering as well, not that I want her to be hurt or sad, certainly not! But purely in grieving process of something so horrible as a breakup, I hurt so so intensely from losing her that I just can't understand how quickly everything can seem erased and she can snap right back and jump from relationship to relationship. I feel to me in a sense that our entire relationship and what I believed was true love is negated in a sense by this.
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