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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: 2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel  (Read 7443 times)
careman
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« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2012, 04:34:46 AM »

This is definitely a real hard one to accept - that he didn't/doesn't feel the same as what I feel.  I think when he said he loved me, he meant it.  It was his version of love, and whatever he was feeling in those moments, was a very intense emotion for him.  He wasn't lying.  But trying to accept that it's never quite been the same thing for him as it has for me is just so difficult.  

For me personally it has two effects... One is sadness as i hear all the stories repeat themselves... yes i heard "love isnt enough" as well... .it makes me really sad to see all these nice, caring and loving people so gutted by the workings of the BPD. Yes i have and am still somewhat gutted by it all. I too heard i love you more than anyone or anything, my life is always with you, i couldnt live with out you... etc... then bang yes a goodbye email and painted blacker then black...

This is how it was for me too.  I heard all the same stuff - "I love you more than I've ever loved anyone... ", but then also "love just isn't enough sometimes... ." - so much of what other people say is the same stuff I heard.  And what is so hard to come to terms with is the way that you can be told you are loved more than anything, but then just left, with what seems to be such ease for them.  

For me, the hardest thing sometimes is the fact that he doesn't feel the same way that I feel now, in trying to deal with the break-up and the loss.  That he has that ability to just "disconnect" from the feelings he had, so he probably does not grieve the loss as I do, he probably does not miss it all as I do.  The fact that dealing with the loss is just probably nothing like the same process for him as it is for me, because he has that "disconnect" thing going on.  That's hard to accept.  You just want to believe that they go through all the same difficult emotions now.  But it's hard to accept that the loss is probably not felt the same way by him as it is by me.

I believe it is all about us bonding/attaching, which is normal human functioning. Our pwBPD doesn't simply because they CANNOT, ant that is part of their dysfunction. In the moment they feel strongly 'BPD-love' for us, which probably is different from our 'non's-love' for them (and for others), but theirs wear off quickly, evaporates, doesn't stay. Ours stay, forming an attachment. Breaking a bond/attachment is painful. We do, they don't. Hence they can leave in a blink, while we can't.

And it is not that they are more 'free' and we are 'stuck'. It is a survival function of our species inherited from the stoneage, to keep flocks/families gathered for sharing of food and protection for the period after the love affair, to guarantee the upbringing of our offspring. It is healthy and still valid.

To me it has been very healing to grasp the 'momentarily-ness' of their feelings. And that that is a dysfunction, and that attaching is the norm and that that norm is existentially motivated.
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Benevolent Sun
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« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2012, 11:51:30 AM »

Well said, I feel odd because my attachment hasn't worn off yet. I was positive after the last break up that I had broken it, but I'm not quite there yet. Your post helps me feel a little better about myself for not completely moving on by now
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« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2012, 08:45:25 AM »

how long is it. mine is 7 months and Im still struggling sometimes. Up til about now I have been crying on a daily basis.
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« Reply #63 on: October 23, 2012, 12:12:36 PM »

I agree with this post, but I have a question.  After it has all been said and done and we no longer have any hope of saving what we had, why do they keep playing games with us.  After all the talk that we need to let go, why after we do and move on to the next thing, why do they still want us to play this game, why do they really not want us to move on.
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« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2012, 04:09:28 PM »

It allows them to maintain the illusion of a "connection" and so they feel valued... .so they don't "feel" alone. Twisted thinking.
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sea5045
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« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2012, 04:13:45 PM »

I agree with this post, but I have a question.  After it has all been said and done and we no longer have any hope of saving what we had, why do they keep playing games with us.  After all the talk that we need to let go, why after we do and move on to the next thing, why do they still want us to play this game, why do they really not want us to move on.

This is my question too, which I have some minor ideas about, why after two years of livng somewhere else in order to get a job, I have moved on, they move back, and are starting to tell people the reason she left is because of me... .

why bother, nobody even knows we were together anymore... .it's kind of like the narcisstic fuel, I think, it's not about them anymore so their going to keep things going even if they distort it to the nth degree. They like to be perceived as a victim, and I am not sure if that is only because they are looking for people to fill their need or get the next host or what... .just scary bc I had a whole life built and then they move back and act like I am the one who is stalking, when I had no idea they perceived me this way... .yikes... Sea
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« Reply #66 on: October 23, 2012, 05:51:57 PM »

I agree with this post, but I have a question.  After it has all been said and done and we no longer have any hope of saving what we had, why do they keep playing games with us.  After all the talk that we need to let go, why after we do and move on to the next thing, why do they still want us to play this game, why do they really not want us to move on.

This is my question too, which I have some minor ideas about, why after two years of livng somewhere else in order to get a job, I have moved on, they move back, and are starting to tell people the reason she left is because of me... .

why bother, nobody even knows we were together anymore... .it's kind of like the narcisstic fuel, I think, it's not about them anymore so their going to keep things going even if they distort it to the nth degree. They like to be perceived as a victim, and I am not sure if that is only because they are looking for people to fill their need or get the next host or what... .just scary bc I had a whole life built and then they move back and act like I am the one who is stalking, when I had no idea they perceived me this way... .yikes... Sea

IMHO, people only play games if we allow it.

BPD is a mental illness... .maladaptive coping skills and lack of boundaries are simply a couple of ways this illness presents itself. 

This thread is designed to look at your role in this - why are you hanging onto a false belief your pwBPD will  feel and act the same as you?

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« Reply #67 on: October 23, 2012, 05:56:42 PM »

I agree with this post, but I have a question.  After it has all been said and done and we no longer have any hope of saving what we had, why do they keep playing games with us.  After all the talk that we need to let go, why after we do and move on to the next thing, why do they still want us to play this game, why do they really not want us to move on.

This is my question too, which I have some minor ideas about, why after two years of livng somewhere else in order to get a job, I have moved on, they move back, and are starting to tell people the reason she left is because of me... .

why bother, nobody even knows we were together anymore... .it's kind of like the narcisstic fuel, I think, it's not about them anymore so their going to keep things going even if they distort it to the nth degree. They like to be perceived as a victim, and I am not sure if that is only because they are looking for people to fill their need or get the next host or what... .just scary bc I had a whole life built and then they move back and act like I am the one who is stalking, when I had no idea they perceived me this way... .yikes... Sea

IMHO, people only play games if we allow it.

BPD is a mental illness... .maladaptive coping skills and lack of boundaries are simply a couple of ways this illness presents itself.  

This thread is designed to look at your role in this - why are you hanging onto a false belief your pwBPD will  feel and act the same as you?

Maybe because as they may have been mirroring us for a long time, we're used to see them think and behave more or less like us... .?

I don't have the answer... .
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« Reply #68 on: October 23, 2012, 06:00:44 PM »

Maybe because as they may have been mirroring us for a long time, we're used to see them think and behave more or less like us... .?

I don't have the answer... .

how can this false belief help you find some peace or closure?
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« Reply #69 on: October 23, 2012, 06:15:14 PM »

Maybe because as they may have been mirroring us for a long time, we're used to see them think and behave more or less like us... .?

I don't have the answer... .

how can this false belief help you find some peace or closure?

It doesn't.

Now that I'm aware of that, I don't expect anything from her so I'm not disappointed (or less disappointed according to the circumstances or my mood or my emotional state when a situation takes place).
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« Reply #70 on: October 23, 2012, 06:19:21 PM »

SB-So are you saying that us processing these breakups and their distorting of it is just another false belief... .that we should not expect that they should feel about this even years later the way that we do... .so in that way this should help give me some closure?

wow... .all I keep thinking about is the part that all bets are off, and anything could happen with renewed contact. Didn't see her visiting with my family as a recycle attempt, just thought it was my step-mom's piss poor judgement.

Something to think about... .
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« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2012, 06:28:31 PM »

SB-So are you saying that us processing these breakups and their distorting of it is just another false belief... .that we should not expect that they should feel about this even years later the way that we do... .so in that way this should help give me some closure?

I asked if accepting this false belief gives you peace or closure.

Do you accept this false belief as true?


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« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2012, 07:01:28 PM »

I can say that her perception of what happened was a false belief, sure. I just thought the false beliefs dealt with being in the relationship, not out of the relationship.So I guess I am asking for clarification.

If I look at her thoughts and perception as a false belief, and apply it that way, yes I think it could give me peace.
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« Reply #73 on: October 23, 2012, 08:13:14 PM »

I can say that her perception of what happened was a false belief, sure. I just thought the false beliefs dealt with being in the relationship, not out of the relationship.So I guess I am asking for clarification.

If I look at her thoughts and perception as a false belief, and apply it that way, yes I think it could give me peace.

Sea,

This subject is False Beliefs that keep us stuck from article 9

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

If you believe that your BPD partner was experiencing the relationship in the same way that you were or that they are feeling the same way you do right now, don’t count on it. This will only serve to confuse you and make it harder to understand what is really happening.

When any relationship breaks down, it’s often because the partners are on a different “page” – but much more so when your partner suffers with borderline personality disorder traits.

Unknown to you, there were likely significant periods of shame, fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it’s a culmination of feelings that have been brewing in the relationship.


Can you help me understand your question as it applies here?
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« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2012, 08:19:04 PM »

In particular cases, it's very difficult to know and to understand what is in their minds, how they feel and what are their motivations.

For us nons, on emotional grounds : cause => effect

Often for BPDs : effects don't have causes.
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sea5045
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« Reply #75 on: October 23, 2012, 09:01:28 PM »

I don't have a question, I just never thought to apply this to something two years later. But it makes sense why we are so not on the same page, the difference is I did not tell anyone about the relationship, and she tells her side of the story to everyone, the facts so distorted to the point that I couldn't believe she was even talking about me.

Sorry SB but lately we don't seem to be communicating clearly... .
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« Reply #76 on: October 23, 2012, 11:31:57 PM »

I can say that her perception of what happened was a false belief, sure. I just thought the false beliefs dealt with being in the relationship, not out of the relationship.So I guess I am asking for clarification.

I was referring to this question/clarification when I asked for you to tell me more about it.

I don't have a question, I just never thought to apply this to something two years later. But it makes sense why we are so not on the same page, the difference is I did not tell anyone about the relationship, and she tells her side of the story to everyone, the facts so distorted to the point that I couldn't believe she was even talking about me.

Sorry SB but lately we don't seem to be communicating clearly... .

No worries about clear communication, this is what questions are for - sometimes we all think we are being clear and it comes across differently... .not really that big of a deal to me

Using your clarification of applying this 2 years later - well, yes... .it is going to apply.  She saw your relationship differently than you throughout... .she is telling your family this (it seems from other posts you have written) - I imagine that is a hard pill to swallow Sea - I would be pissed at my family for sure.

It sounds like you have a lot going on emotionally and you are being challenged with detaching since she keeps coming around.  Hang in there.
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« Reply #77 on: October 24, 2012, 08:43:59 AM »

In particular cases, it's very difficult to know and to understand what is in their minds, how they feel and what are their motivations.

For us nons, on emotional grounds : cause => effect

Often for BPDs : effects don't have causes.

Yeah exactly what my T says. She goes 'poff' then 'poff' again in antother direction. And it makes sense to me, while looking from a perspective of me being the cause makes non-sense and creates confusion.

Believing that my rescue effort was the cause of a wanted (by me) effect in her, yields a 'kick' in the brain's reward system of dopamine and such, strengthening the bond and my attachment to her.  Every time she flips into the good graces, and I believe I caused it, attachment builds, and the upcoming detachment (as written in stone as it seems from reading the boards) has a bit more pain to be suffered and endured.

/Careman
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sea5045
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« Reply #78 on: October 24, 2012, 04:17:45 PM »

that is a hard pill to swallow Sea - I would be pissed at my family for sure.

It sounds like you have a lot going on emotionally and you are being challenged with detaching since she keeps coming around.  Hang in there.[/quote]
Yes, sadly it is very hard to swallow, affects my self doubt, my trust, even this new person I've been dating says it is scary for her to watch how my family is handling this "drama", and it is but it is their drama, that I have to respond to and not let it affect me in the present. But it does, I get a little paranoid, over reactive, and my compass is off course for the moment. Hard to compartmentalize this stuff, I can at work, but difficult in my personal life... .going to start going to church just to be around spiritual people and to Al anon just to keep working on detaching with love and not anger... .too much to keep having to deal with this crap. But thanks for responding and helping me get clear... .
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« Reply #79 on: October 24, 2012, 04:26:44 PM »

how long is it. mine is 7 months and Im still struggling sometimes. Up til about now I have been crying on a daily basis.

I'm just short of a year now, no contact since June. I just get that feeling, that I wasn't good enough, or it would have worked out.

"It allows them to maintain the illusion of a "connection" and so they feel valued... .so they don't "feel" alone. Twisted thinking.". -findingmyselfagain

It's kind of funny you mention that, last time I contacted her, she told me that there would always be a connection between us.
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« Reply #80 on: October 24, 2012, 05:49:13 PM »

My ex told me once 'you leave me feeling utterly deflated'. It was just after I'd been away with my kids and their dad for 3 days. Ex went weird, told me 'it actually physically hurts' when I'd been gone 24 hours.

Then he turned, went distant, seemed to get pissed off with me because I didn't leave as early as I said I would (I have 2 kids and a feckless ex- no big deal). Said he didn't want to see me when I got back- he felt like being quiet.

I felt utterly different- I missed him but I was enjoying my time with my kids. I was looking forward to seeing him having missed him so much!

He didn't feel like I did. He felt a desperation I only started to glimpse at that point- I had no idea what it was then. But he sure felt differently to me.

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findingmyselfagain
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« Reply #81 on: October 25, 2012, 08:11:26 AM »

A lot of things that seemed cute at the time... .texting 24/7, hanging out 5 nights a week, tons of loving FB posts, keeping my shirts, putting up cards I sent in her room, souvenirs from dates, pictures... .probably is genuinely cool in a healthy r/s. But in moderation. Maybe not so much with adults. It was more or less a "teenage dream"... .in my mind maybe as much as in hers. Instead of her love being deep, genuine and lasting... .it was an intense fantasy that was due to self-destruct. I have to admit I bought it hook, line, and sinker.

I tried to make friends with her but the roller coaster was even more evident. One day she was friendly. The next time she went off the deep end. Finally, I gave it up and went NC. Finally the evidence of the disorder/emotional problems was just too much and it wasn't accomplishing anything.
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« Reply #82 on: November 20, 2012, 08:20:36 AM »

During the break-up my ex uBPDgf told me "You don't know this but I resented you for a year." That hit me like a brick. I had no idea what the hell she was talking about because she was still being "cute" with me almost all the time and going about the relationship as usual.

You are lucky that she was willing to let you in on that, mine never admitted any fault, just kept on blaming me for her running off with another guy and then getting pregnant.
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« Reply #83 on: November 20, 2012, 08:26:29 AM »

A lot of things that seemed cute at the time... .texting 24/7, hanging out 5 nights a week, tons of loving FB posts, keeping my shirts, putting up cards I sent in her room, souvenirs from dates, pictures... .probably is genuinely cool in a healthy r/s. But in moderation. Maybe not so much with adults. It was more or less a "teenage dream"... .in my mind maybe as much as in hers. Instead of her love being deep, genuine and lasting... .it was an intense fantasy that was due to self-destruct. I have to admit I bought it hook, line, and sinker.

No worries, you are not alone. I got the same sense of the childish nature of the my relationship. I did my best to drag her into the "adult" world but it never took. For doing that she saw me as boring and replaced me with a guy her age who loves to drink as much as she does... .now is going to be her baby Daddy!
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« Reply #84 on: November 20, 2012, 08:29:41 AM »

My ex told me that he loved me and would always love me, but never could tell me why we couldn't be together.  He also confessed to me that he had always just told me what I wanted to hear and told a mutual friend that he just wanted things to go back to the way we were before we dated.  He now pretends we never happened and that he doesn't know me.  After being together for 1.5 years and seeing/talking almost every day.  He's so cold, it's like he's looking right through me. 
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« Reply #85 on: November 20, 2012, 08:43:13 AM »

My ex told me that he loved me and would always love me, but never could tell me why we couldn't be together.  He also confessed to me that he had always just told me what I wanted to hear and told a mutual friend that he just wanted things to go back to the way we were before we dated.  He now pretends we never happened and that he doesn't know me.  After being together for 1.5 years and seeing/talking almost every day.  He's so cold, it's like he's looking right through me. 

When I found out mine was cheating and I was making plans to move out, my ex came up and even verbalized the idea of being room mates. This is the same woman who was looking for me to buy her a ring just a couple of weeks earlier. This sort of thing gives you the sense of just how they see us. It isn't in anyway the same as we see them. There is a lot of stuff on this website that describes this sort of black and white thinking that goes on in BPD.
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« Reply #86 on: November 20, 2012, 10:21:54 AM »

For some reason my exBPDgf couldn't help herself from interrupting our conversations all the time.  She knew it was counterproductive while we were discussing issues but it was like she couldn't  stop from saying something everytime I spoke.  The pd individual can only think on a linear scale and seldom listens to what is being told to them.  They are always about the next issue that focuses on themselves as being the most important thing to talk about.
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« Reply #87 on: November 21, 2012, 02:18:31 AM »

To believe that anybody is the "same" as you is a concern. Isn't that co-dependency? My partner is totally different from me and we work hard to communicate but listening to each other helps. There was no way a "toddler" relationship could facilitate this.
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« Reply #88 on: November 21, 2012, 03:06:02 AM »

she feels nothing like i feel. nada. zip. zero.  she is just a black hole of feelings, sucking the will to live out of me so that she can keep the transfusion going until she sucks the will to live out of the next ignorant fool
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« Reply #89 on: March 04, 2013, 05:15:47 PM »

A great thread on so many levels. It seems to resonate with so many people. I think the ingredient here is our hearts and minds acting normally by processing the information we think we are looking at, we know its all there, its evident and and we assign the 'facts' to be understood for what they are and mistakenly try to deal with it via our reasoning. But wait, none of those things the BPD'er said, had done or acted before or since separating from us matches the information we are working with. Remember, they jealously loved and needed us yet we are discarded like a used tissue. We did'nt love them 'like they wanted to be loved'. They need the friendship of the opposite sex, If we talk to a similar he or she (no matter who, age, looks or what) we are going to leave them. I laugh (a hollow laugh) remembering when I was pushed out of my marriage, home and Kids relationships and she gave me a photo of the kids (of course with her in the middle of the shot) with the tag line here is what 'you've' thrown away. Within weeks she'd moved on fast with a BF who was waiting in the wings, After two years she calls to my apartment to pick up my daughter (who invites her in) glances into my bedroom and see my GF's earrings on the nitestand then rings me next day yelling 'you're f**k**g her! you B'std!. My mind was saying what is happening here. It took years for me to work out what the hell was going on - I found the answers here on these boards and on the info pages. I remember Bob Dylan's song 'Idiot Wind' and him singing 'whats good is bad whats bad is good you'll find out when you reach the top you're on the bottom' and I can tell you after years not knowing what he meant then I sure do now. Thank heavens for this site - I thought I was going crazy till I got here. And whilst I still can (selectively) look back over the few good times, at least my time spent trying to solve, figure out and make sense out of the insensible does'nt take up those hours of replaying question after question in my mind before eventually falling asleep. We live with the damage out of the aftermath (so does my GF, bless her) its our legacy they bequieth to us - But it does'nt have to be for life (good luck to all - its do'able!)
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