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Author Topic: 2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel  (Read 7442 times)
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« on: March 06, 2011, 11:14:35 AM »

Hi Leaving Board,

Article 9  Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder on the website has helped me heal, stay NC and accept BPD more than any other thing that I read (trust me, there has been a lot).  

Commonly, folks here want to know when they are going to feel better.  I have shared routinely that article 9 (10 myths that keep us stuck) - truly analyzing and understanding our role in these - can help the healing process immensely.

This week it is myth 2 - please share your experiences as it relates.  It will help you and it will help others.

Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel  [Read original text here]

For me, this was a really big pill to swallow.  I recall our MC talking about 2 people viewing a car accident from opposite sides of the street.  Although they see the same accident, their replay of the event may be completely different.

"Unknown to you, there were likely significant periods of shame, fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it’s a culmination of feelings that have been brewing in the relationship."

I recall my ex being confused that I could be mad about an action, but my love did not change.  She couldn't fathom this - if you are mad, you must hate me.  The emotional pendulum would swing from one extreme to the other.  Once I realized this was happening under the surface (what I saw was a small % of the time, but these feelings happened a lot) - it was sad, but freeing in a way.

I believed that love was universal - the Corintheans version, buddhist version - all of the great teachings or definitions had a common theme.  What I did not understand was love for a pwBPD is quite different than a non.  Radical Acceptance of this fact has helped me depersonalize the experience.

How does this myth relate to your BPD relationship?




More information

Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder

1) Belief that this person holds the key to your happiness

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

3) Belief that the relationship problems are caused by you or some circumstance

4) Belief that love can prevail

5) Belief that things will return to "the way they used to be"

6) Clinging to the words that were said

7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

9) Belief that you need to stay to help them.

10) Belief that they have seen the light

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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2011, 01:32:47 PM »

During the break-up my ex uBPDgf told me "You don't know this but I resented you for a year." That hit me like a brick. I had no idea what the hell she was talking about because she was still being "cute" with me almost all the time and going about the relationship as usual.


And then I got replaced.
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2011, 01:40:51 PM »

During the break-up my ex uBPDgf told me "You don't know this but I resented you for a year." That hit me like a brick. I had no idea what the hell she was talking about because she was still being "cute" with me almost all the time and going about the relationship as usual.


And then I got replaced.

I just wonder how true that is for alot of us my friend. That is clarity at its finest at the end.
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2011, 01:41:55 PM »

Yes this myth helped me depersonalize the info i got last week that my two neighbors knew she viewed the relationship as "We'll  be fine, we've been living more like friends and each have our own room".  Whereas I was sad, sentimental, emotional she was moving for a job but happy she had gotten one.  Anyway, she controlled the communication over that period from April to August, I stillpaid for her and bought her gifts, hoping getting a job would shift the tension.  

ThenI found this website and realized I had served  my purpose.  I too realize now when I would calmly say "I am angry with you" and we would never discuss this, that she probably internalized this as I hate you, or I am going to abandon you?
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2011, 01:53:24 PM »

Myth 2 - Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel


Mirroring or not, how she sees it, if there's BPD involved, the astrological forecast or whatever--- I fell in love with her. No doubt about it. She said she fell in love with me, as well. Were we on the same level? No. Obviously not. We're not together anymore. Why? That's one of the biggest questions I've had to face during this push/pull, grieving, letting go process. How come love isn't enough to keep us together? The closer we got, the more agitated things became. How come if she said she loved me more than anyone she'd ever known, she could also yell and throw abuse at me, break my stuff, turn her friends against me, give the silent treatment for days on end, move out and break us up, say she hates me... .I kept thinking, "If she really loves me, we'll make it." Because I loved her. So I tried being even nicer, going out of my way for her whenever possible, being more romantic, more attentive. All the while trying to not push any buttons, even to the point of holding my tongue when I knew I shouldn't have to. I'd think, "This isn't really love, on her part, is it? Where's the real reciprocation?" Feeling so much for her got me to stay a lot longer, hang on when I felt that things were way off balance. I didn't know what could be done about it.

What got me to a place where my mind cleared more and I felt that forward progress was really happening? I read the letters she was sending which were completely negative, nothing loving, nothing friendly anymore, no hope, all the blame on me. As if they had been written by someone I didn't even know. I knew then for sure that she didn't see things the way I did, didn't feel things the same at all. Before that, I took in what she said, listened, went off seeking answers as to how I could have been so 'mean', what are my own issues I need to work on. I believed some of what she was saying, and I also saw the truth. So I looked, found, apologized, and changed. She's still stuck in anger, though, and that's when I saw that she's really different than me and things would never work out. She hasn't even been trying. Which showed me she doesn't feel me the same as I feel her. It was a really serious moment to realize this, to find that I was already in motion away from her, even though my heart was still feeling so attached. What do you mean, there's no relationship now? We said that we're going to live our lives together, that we're in love. It's not real to her?

Part of what's been strange about this whole experience is the sharing of the dream. Usually, we dream alone. This was one I shared with someone else, and when it came down to it, she didn't do enough to help it be a good one. Towards the end, she even went about rewriting it, turning it all to something bad. She's the one who ended it, who woke us up so to speak. At first, I was very sad about that. Very hurt. I just couldn't understand it, and in some ways never will. It's taken a while to get where I can see that waking up was something that I needed to do. My eyes are open now. I know that I'm not dreaming. I still love her, and if things could work out for us, we probably would still be together. But I'm not going to walk around in my sleep anymore while the other person involved turns it into a nightmare. I tried to keep the good dream going, and help it become a good reality. That's how I know we're different.
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2011, 02:41:19 PM »

Very good observations by everyone, and this "myth" has been the most troubling for me also, during my detachment.

I was so confused about how she would think me being temporarily upset/angry about something was me hating her entirely. Even a look from me that she didn't like would trigger her. I knew it felt "off" but I didn't want to leave her. I loved her, right? For the longest I felt it was all my fault as well, and yeah I tried to change some things about myself. Now I know nothing I changed would have helped. She was fully aware of her "flipping out" as I called it once and she at one point even tried to rationalize that it wouldn't happen again, or if it did happen again, she would behave differently. When I asked her why she did that she just said, "I don't know". I just think at this point she doesn't want to deal with the pain of facing her illness, let alone treatment. So she will continue to see and feel everything different no matter who comes next. The cycle continues... .

Myself pretty much summed up a great deal of what I went through and felt at the time. I just knew things were not on an equal playing field concerning love. Her actions and words just didn't show that reciprocation at all times. 

In the end she actually told me she was looking for a different "type" of love. More spiritual. Like my love wasn't good enough or something. Just more made us bs in her head to warrant her moving on with a clear conscience. I literally witnessed a complete transformation of this woman I fell in love with. As I see it with clear eyes now, it seems so tragic and sad, but also scary at the same time.

More love = pain. Who would have thought?

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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2011, 05:36:21 PM »

Hi Leaving Board,

Myth 2 - Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

For me, this was a really big pill to swallow.  I recall our MC talking about 2 people viewing a car accident from opposite sides of the street.  Although they see the same accident, their replay of the event may be completely different.

"Unknown to you, there were likely significant periods of shame, fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it's a culmination of feelings that often arise later in the relationship."

This is an on-going struggle for me.  I think our T's went to the same school  . She used the same example with us.  It didn't placate my H at all.  To him, truth is truth, facts are facts, there are no different ways at looking at the same event and perceiving it differently.  This was one of our biggest stumbling blocks in MC. 

There was significant shame, resentment, fear just below the surface for over 20 years that I was unaware of.  Even now, it is hard to look back at all those years (31 now) and realize he perceived things differently.  It is hard to accept he has moved on while I am still hurting so deeply. Love for him meant something different then it does to me.  I have to keep reminding myself that in order to make sense of what's happening.  Radical acceptance is the only way to go on this, I think.  Otherwise I will always be frustrated with trying to force his actions into the same construct I live in. You just can not force a square peg into a round hole!
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2011, 05:45:30 PM »

TheSomberlain said:

Excerpt
"You don't know this but I resented you for a year." That hit me like a brick.

I heard this from him too, and when I did I was stunned speechless. HE resented ME?  Oh Lord. I'd never have believe that all the time I was trying to do things right, to say the right things, to go along, to take his sarcasm and abuse, and HE resented ME?  It made me sick to my stomach hearing that from him.
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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2011, 07:35:37 PM »

I have finished reading this article beginning to end. I copied it, saved it. I know it's all relative to me but still, it's breaking my heart to come to terms with it all.  So sad.
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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2011, 09:25:10 PM »

This one kicks my butt. I know it is true. Very evident in all of bph's talks and actions but I just have a hard time with it. My T said we view love and life through different glasses. Yep his are blacked out. I just do not understand how they are so mean sometimes. They feel extreme emotion yet cause extreme pain, I get it but I don't. They are so afraid of being abandoned they leave us, they think we hate them if we disagree at all. I know they do not feel like we do but it is so hard to deal with.BPH has been packing today, he acts like he is going fishing no big deal. I am past being ready for him to go but it is hard for me to watch. I think of what could have been, he asks me to donate some clothes to charity. Guess thats what he would like to do with me, donate me and forget me. Probably what he will do... .with any luck he will forget me. I hope he does because I wont recycle but I dont know how they are so cold. And yes, mine says now he has resented me for a long time. Must be in the BPD handbook on how to hurt your so
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« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2011, 09:43:15 PM »

Mine told me she loved me but love isn't enough.

I knew mine didn't think the same as me because when argued I could never get any detail as to why she was upset. I would try to figure out what I did to upset her. She would get madder and madder the more questions I asked because everything she said would be so vague... .Such as I talked down to her or I didn't treat her the same anymore, or I didn't look at her the same anymore. I was madly in love with her still so it was all fantasy in her head. I told her that once and that really put her in a rage. If I kept asking questions she would start accusing me of not allowing her to express her emotions! To recap... .she is upset... .I try to find out what's wrong. She can't tell me. I keep questioning. She tells me she is mad at me because I keep questioning her and all she is trying to do is express her emotions! Ugggghhhhh!

I loved your post myself. So relevant. So similar except our feelings at the end. I let mine go in the end. I let go of my love for her too. Don't know how that is going to work out for me yet... .I've ignored mine's request for talking... .Mind you it is not a request to talk about the r/s... .Her request comes with a condition. We have to make small talk and pretend nothing bad ever happened between us. Then we can talk... .Until she feels like raging at me... .Than I have to except her not talking to me for a few days  until she feels like engaging again with no mention of what just happened.

I let go but I haven't worked through all my emotions yet. I never want to see her again. She treated me horribly and I deserve better than that.       

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« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2011, 09:13:11 PM »

Man, what a great set of posts! Thanks for the bump!

I too have been dealing with the "how" can she have said this, or that, but now here we are. We have been apart since Jan., although in the early part of Feb 2011, she came to see me at work TWICE in one week... .An hour drive one way! On the second visit, she "gave me the eyes" that I loved... .And said, "Can you take the rest of the day off"? I foolishly said, NO, but I'll take TOMORROW off! We spent the night together... .I thought we were FIXED! Man, was I in for a new ride at the county fair!  I thought she wanted to "really" work this out, as this was the first time we actually really separated in the two year r/s. We went to see a T... .Well, you know the rest... .She is out chasing her next "Soul-mate" as she called me! Smiling (click to insert in post)  I love her... .Well, now that I am working through this, I know I "loved the person she wanted me to love". There is a big part of me that truly loves her, but a bigger part that now knows it is best for my son and I to be in a new place alone. It took along time for me to move out, a very long time. I thought I could "fix" US. Guys, if there was ever a guy that was "in L.O.V.E.", it was me. Over time, I actually grew accustomed to her anger. Very sad, but I think all of us NONs go through this phase. I am in a much better place today than I was in late Jan 2011! WOW... .I am doing some healing, ONE DAY at A TIME. Today, I actually have felt more peace, than I have since Jan. I have this over-all feeling today, since I saw her driving her brothers car while trying to "stalk" me... .Today, something has finally clicked! Smiling (click to insert in post) I'm going to be OK... .  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2011, 02:33:51 AM »

That is one of the myths I have been struggling with the most, Even though in most interactions we have now he is like a stranger. I held on for so long because I could not accept or even begin to understand how he erased me.  My denial kept saying that "deep down he really cares, and this matters to him".

I am trying to remember that myth to stay strong on NC. Still inside I struggle. My exBPDbf is a musician and writes songs. He used to say the most amazing things to me and I thought it was from his kindred heart. When I look back now... .He was probably verbally writing lyrics to his next song! LOL  It hurts so much but if I try and look at it and laugh, it helps a little.

Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2011, 05:30:47 AM »

i guess this relates to my struggle after the ambiguous break up followed by painting me black and hopping in a new relationship.

trying to understand and fathom what was going on in her mind. did she not miss me? did she not even think about me? all the same stuff. i think what saved me was both this site, and discovering that she was invading my email. otherwise i think what im going through and experiencing would be scores worse.

i have this problem in general. im always surprised to know (even though i realize it consciously) that people perceive things differently than me, or do not perceive them the same way i do.

however i had a lot of insight into my thoughts and hers, she was fairly honest and forth coming, and there was never a lack of communication. i knew when she resented me. she either made it clear, or flat out told me. there are certainly things in retrospect i had not the foggiest idea were going on, like triggers of abandonment fears, etc. the profound lack of logic or reason or rationality, spinning, gaslighting, etc, i recognized in her, and from past relationships, and wrongly attributed to her bipolar, but was still able to dismiss as just that, and not become confused.
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« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2011, 08:40:58 PM »

That is one of the myths I have been struggling with the most, Even though in most interactions we have now he is like a stranger. I held on for so long because I could not accept or even begin to understand how he erased me.  My denial kept saying that "deep down he really cares, and this matters to him".

I am trying to remember that myth to stay strong on NC. Still inside I struggle. My exBPDbf is a musician and writes songs. He used to say the most amazing things to me and I thought it was from his kindred heart. When I look back now... .He was probably verbally writing lyrics to his next song! LOL  It hurts so much but if I try and look at it and laugh, it helps a little.

Smiling (click to insert in post)

My struggle as well. It is soo painful and difficult to realize that he doesn't care and the r/s no longer matters to him at all... .Aghh... .
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« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2011, 01:13:34 PM »

Great thread! I needed this one...

Mine too said "I love you more than anything, but sometimes love isn't enough".

I think I'm in WhiteDoe and hippiegrl's shoes with this denial crap.

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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2011, 01:24:13 PM »

This is the part that hit me the hardest! I had been hanging on to the good times for soo long... .waiting and hoping to return to normal. When I read about this, I cried so deeply. And I knew, I just knew, I had to accept that the man I had fallen so deeply in love with was a facade. He was "trying" to act normal, be normal. But it all came down to pulling back the curtain and seeing the Wizard of Oz as just smoke and mirrors!

But at the same time, I think this is where I was able to let go, to grieve for myself. I think accepting this basic understanding that he will never be capable of being in love with me, the way I had believed and wished it to be, was what finally gave me some closure.
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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2011, 01:42:18 PM »

Great thread! I needed this one...

Mine too said "I love you more than anything, but sometimes love isn't enough".

I think I'm in WhiteDoe and hippiegrl's shoes with this denial crap.

that was my girl's line too.  if she ever tries to contact me again, if she ever says she loves me again ... i will say i'm sorry, but sometimes that's just not enough.
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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2011, 03:13:13 PM »

The thing is... .believing he loved ME, I made myself the most vulnerable to him. I gave him all of ME. And in the end, he was mirroring the good parts and hating me for my flaws. None of it ever had anything to do with ME.
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« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2011, 03:17:36 PM »

Mine told me she loved me but love isn't enough.

I knew mine didn't think the same as me because when argued I could never get any detail as to why she was upset. I would try to figure out what I did to upset her. She would get madder and madder the more questions I asked because everything she said would be so vague... .Such as I talked down to her or I didn't treat her the same anymore, or I didn't look at her the same anymore. I was madly in love with her still so it was all fantasy in her head. I told her that once and that really put her in a rage. If I kept asking questions she would start accusing me of not allowing her to express her emotions! To recap... .she is upset... .I try to find out what's wrong. She can't tell me. I keep questioning. She tells me she is mad at me because I keep questioning her and all she is trying to do is express her emotions! Ugggghhhhh!

I loved your post myself. So relevant. So similar except our feelings at the end. I let mine go in the end. I let go of my love for her too. Don't know how that is going to work out for me yet... .I've ignored mine's request for talking... .Mind you it is not a request to talk about the r/s... .Her request comes with a condition. We have to make small talk and pretend nothing bad ever happened between us. Then we can talk... .Until she feels like raging at me... .Than I have to except her not talking to me for a few days  until she feels like engaging again with no mention of what just happened.

I let go but I haven't worked through all my emotions yet. I never want to see her again. She treated me horribly and I deserve better than that.       

Yes the last email she sent me when she wanted to know what I wanted from her, was "Simple pleasantries, I can't go backwards", keep it light simple,  the condition being not to discuss the relationship. As if talking is somehow a signal that someone wants more than a friend, there is the controlling of information again, the way she would yell at me that I was interrupting her, quit trying to touch her when she was raging at me, all that stuff... .I am also back to no contact, it is too hard to see how she misperceives my intentions, my words, so sad... .
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« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2011, 03:32:11 PM »

Of course I can relate to this myth.  I did not know until recently that he had BPD.First came... .you don’t love me when you talk to me that way, so I changed the way I talked to him.  Then came the you don’t love me when you act that way, so I changed that too.  During any sort of conflict I had to coddle him like a small overly sensitive child.  There were so many “rules” on how to approach him and talk to him. 

Then came the body language, tone of voice and facial expressions.  I would try my best to be mindful about all this too and finally threw my hands up in the air and said I am not some emotionless robot.  I am a person with feelings and you will just need to suck this one up.  Then I was punished with silence and cutting comments half said just loud enough to hear.

He had his perception and wanted me to change everything about myself so he could feel like I loved him.  Finally I didn’t care I was worn out trying to avoid all the buried land mines within his mind.  Just when I thought I did something right I would hear how everything I did was all wrong.  No matter what I said to him he could never understand that you can be angry or disapprove yet still love someone.

I now know that there is nothing … absolutely no-thing I can do that will ever convince him of all the things he accused me of that isn’t true.  To him it’s the truth and forever will be the truth no matter what.

As painful as it has been to let go of my marriage learning about BPD has made this process a lot easier.  When I get to thinking (the way I think) I can come here do some reading and be assured he lived within a world he created in his mind and never can I use sane rational thinking and acting to figure out insane irrational thinking. 

He is lost to his disease and desires no way out.  Acceptance of that has been hard.  The good news is that I can focus on what is true, pour my guts out here and in time I will heal from all this. 

Thanks for this post as it is a good reminder for me that he doesn’t live in the same reality as I do.  That knowledge brings me peace and inspires me to keep out of the cycle.

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« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2011, 03:35:38 PM »

Finally I didn’t care I was worn out trying to avoid all the buried land mines within his mind.

Ok. some metaphors being used are here are priceless... .  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2011, 03:54:26 PM »

I remember whenever someone would ask me how things with my ex were going I would often say, "Well from my perspective things are going well, but one thing that I have learned is that from XXXX's perspective it could be totally different" I used to laugh about it as if it were some joke, but now that I type it, it certainly was not. I never knew where I stood in the relationship. Whenever I thought we were good, it turned out she was unhappy and thought things were bad between us. It was odd how far off we were from each other. I know relationships have ups and downs, but on the whole I thought we were ok, but it was never the same for her.

My ex also could not understand that when I was angry with her that it did not mean that I did not love her anymore. I tried to explain that it was possible to be angry at someone and still see the good in that person and love them still. She could not. Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)  She pretty much told me that when she was upset with me, she did not love me. Wow, I guess you can forget unconditional love in that equation. As time went on, it seemed she was upset with me almost all the time. Sometimes I had no idea why she would stop talking to me and get silent all of a sudden. When I would ask what was wrong, she would always say "nothing" or "I'm just tired". I don't know about you guys, but if you are sweet and kind to everyone around you, but wont talk to me, then you must be upset about something I have done right?

Here's my take on what I think happened between us. I think she really did try to love me as much as she was able. However over time she just allowed her feelings to take over and never really had the mental clarity to see the truth for what it was: I loved her unconditionally, and nothing she could do would change that. I think she believed her internal dialogue and became more and more resentful of me and what I was or was not doing (who really knows at this point). It was always easy for her to walk away because she was angry with me and as she made clear as day, when she is mad she does not love. So in a weird ___ed up sort of way, I guess it makes sense in her world to leave me. Very very sad indeed. :'(
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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2011, 06:26:52 PM »

In an article about BPD, I read that the idealization phase with a BPD may look a lot like a regular 'honeymoon' phase of a r/s. But what is different with BPD r/s is what occurs during the transition from honeymoon phase, to long term r/s. This is where my r/s with my H always broke down. He could never settle into regular ups and downs of two people sharing a life. It was always totally intense, or totally nothing... .
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« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2011, 07:59:10 PM »

This has been EXTRAORDINARILY difficult for me. All the cards and letters. All the times she told me "She loved doing stuff with me... .and DOING STUFF (wink wink) with me".  "We talk about everything." "I'll never let you go." Fortunately time is making those memories sting less, but I really believed we felt the same level of love for each other. It wasn't until our wedding was postponed when I told her about the things she said and all she could say was "That's true." I'm not good at questioning. I should have asked what's true about it? That you meant it? Or that you said it? When I told her about how my eyes lit up when I talked about her to my friends. All she could say was "Awww." Needless to say it was fairly frustrating and shocking to me. It only makes sense that she's a borderline. My T was married to one for 10 years. It's much better for me to find out I wasn't loved now than 10 years from now... .or after we married. I find I still have compassion for her, but from a large distance. It's sad but there's nothing I can do about it... .or her, really. It's just how the Universe is. We deserve so much better and we'll find it.
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« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2011, 08:04:55 PM »

Yeah, this one is hard for me. Pardon if this is 'too much information,' but I realized afterward that all the awesome sex, all the 'For the first time, I feel close to someone' etc, was about something totally different for her.

That really hurt - to know that she probably wasn't feeling intimacy at all. She was medicating and/or controlling.

Ouch.
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« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2011, 08:29:15 PM »

I agree with everyone this was, by far, the hardest thing... .im still struggling to accept it, actually... .but thanks to everyone on this board I do think im improving a little each day. That said, I still feel angry and resentful. Yes I get my BP is mentally ill (and a low functioning one at that), but the problem im having here is forgiving MYSELF. I am an educated, intelligent person and really, I should have known better. I cant forgive myself... .how stupid I was to think if I only gave enough, tried hard enough, id be deemed "good enough" in her eyes to stay. hahahaha... .uh no. ... .she sucked me dry then left. Im ashamed at MYSELF for buying into her manipulation and lies. Deep down, I knew she never felt the same... .it was always a nagging feeling... .but you know you dont want to believe it.

Next time, I should listen to my gut... .
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« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2011, 12:08:56 AM »

Awesome Post

For me personally it has two effects... One is sadness as i hear all the stories repeat themselves... yes i heard "love isnt enough" as well... .it makes me really sad to see all these nice, caring and loving people so gutted by the workings of the BPD. Yes i have and am still somewhat gutted by it all. I too heard i love you more than anyone or anything, my life is always with you, i couldnt live with out you... etc... then bang yes a goodbye email and painted blacker then black...

Secondly it makes me quite angry almost sick that these people promise the world, promise unconditional love then bang rip your heart out and put it on fire... It highlights to me just how crazy and damaging these people are. A normal person who says i love you and you are everything to me, means it... they cannot just end everything in an email and walk away like you are nothing... .We cannot do that... i love you means something... .it means something to say it and to hear it... you dont walk around saying i love you to random people know... only those that touch you heart and you have a deep connection with... to hear it back should mean something as well. With BPD people it means nothing! thats what p1sses me off! it is just f**king with peoples hearts, emotions and feelings and is a low act... no one deserves that. no one.!

Timebomb - exactly the same here brother, i let so much slide but after seeing a four month convo with an ex where she was potraying herself as single and flirting with him (maybe cheated i dont know) i had to confront her... Got the email saying goodbye then boom i was the devil personified! Stuff thrown on lawn, ignored, threatened with legal action, fake stories that she is ill, fake stories that she had a stalker everything possible to be nasty to me she did... .all because yeah i called her out on her bulls**t.

You know what though? f**k them... .i dont want a relationship with a compulsive liar who constantly needs attention from other guys and will do anything and everything to make sure her needs are met. Yep i miss the good side of her when she could be the sweetest girl in the world but what does that mean? if when you turn your back you cannot trust them... .without trust a relationship cannot work... you cannot trust a BPD... .even if they came back and returned to the idealisation phase there is no way i would ever trust her again!

so yeah i accept that they do not feel the same as us... .i mean how could they? look at their actions... they lie, abuse, cheat then leave... .thats not love in anyones book. we fight for them put everything on the line for love only to have it ripped off.

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« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2011, 12:23:25 AM »

I've been thinking that for a long time, but could never form the words to articulate it well enough to hit the post button.

The only thing to counter that is, at least with my ex, I know she feels remorseful for at least what she did to me... .

She also said "I've made up my mind, and for some reason I can't change it back... " That just proves you're dealing with something much deeper.  

The love for a period was real, may not be the same idea as you, me or the rest of us... but something is real (infatuation, obsession, a crack head needing a hit off a rock? who knows).

I don't mean that as a justification, because either way, the end result: we end up being destroyed trusting their words are healthy.
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« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2011, 01:37:37 AM »

Excerpt
That really hurt - to know that she probably wasn't feeling intimacy at all. She was medicating and/or controlling.

Ouch.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2011, 08:40:56 AM »

This is definitely a real hard one to accept - that he didn't/doesn't feel the same as what I feel.  I think when he said he loved me, he meant it.  It was his version of love, and whatever he was feeling in those moments, was a very intense emotion for him.  He wasn't lying.  But trying to accept that it's never quite been the same thing for him as it has for me is just so difficult.  

For me personally it has two effects... One is sadness as i hear all the stories repeat themselves... yes i heard "love isnt enough" as well... .it makes me really sad to see all these nice, caring and loving people so gutted by the workings of the BPD. Yes i have and am still somewhat gutted by it all. I too heard i love you more than anyone or anything, my life is always with you, i couldnt live with out you... etc... then bang yes a goodbye email and painted blacker then black...

This is how it was for me too.  I heard all the same stuff - "I love you more than I've ever loved anyone... ", but then also "love just isn't enough sometimes... ." - so much of what other people say is the same stuff I heard.  And what is so hard to come to terms with is the way that you can be told you are loved more than anything, but then just left, with what seems to be such ease for them.  

For me, the hardest thing sometimes is the fact that he doesn't feel the same way that I feel now, in trying to deal with the break-up and the loss.  That he has that ability to just "disconnect" from the feelings he had, so he probably does not grieve the loss as I do, he probably does not miss it all as I do.  The fact that dealing with the loss is just probably nothing like the same process for him as it is for me, because he has that "disconnect" thing going on.  That's hard to accept.  You just want to believe that they go through all the same difficult emotions now.  But it's hard to accept that the loss is probably not felt the same way by him as it is by me.
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« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2011, 09:12:08 AM »

This is such an amazingly insightful article. I read it back in March and truthfully some of what it said destroyed me in a way, because it was honest. I just wasn't prepared for 'honest' back then. Reading it was like receiving electroshock therapy. For those of us who are fresh out of our relationship, and for those of us who still struggle many months later, this particular article is the one survival tool that I'd recommend that we all read at least once a week.
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« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2011, 09:50:36 AM »

This is very true. Even though she worshipped me throughout I still felt that I still loved her more than she loved me. A terrible feeling which turned me into a clingy mess.
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« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2011, 09:53:47 AM »

There is a good deal of pain here. Borderline works in fantasy. It is the "longing for love" that is real in a borderline. They long for love and attachment like any human being. This is the easy part though. It doesn't require emotional maturity. It doesn't require another person moving towards ... .then away... .and back again. The ebb and flow of any relationship. Sometimes we need to focus more on work. Sometime we desire to focus more on a hobby or a skill. Sometimes we need time with our friends and family. Sometimes we want to just focus on our SO and our relationship. This is a healthy relationship. The borderline can't handle the ebb and flow. It causes abandonment fears. If you do make them your 24/7 world it causes engulfment fears and they see you as a controller or persecutor. There is no way to win that game. Being in a relationship with an untreated borderline is going to make your life very difficult. There is no way around it. It isn't intentional. I know it feels like it. It isn't. This is the mental illness.  They feel best in the beginning stage of love. That is why they break free and move on so easy. They don't do real intimacy. They do fantasy. Other thoughts from the article. The best question to ask ourselves is why can't we let go? What did they give us that we weren't giving ourselves? They filled a hole in us that bonded us to them. That was a hole that existed before they came along. We have our own "leaky buckets" to patch to become complete human beings. Enmeshment isn't healthy. It shows we have our own work to do.

Understand that you have become the trigger for your BPD partner's bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, you do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them. This is a complex defense mechanism that is often seen with borderline personality disorder when a relationship sours. It's roots emanate from the deep central wounds of the disorder. You can't begin to answer to this.

Breaking Up Was Never this Hard

Is it because they are so special? Sure they are special and this is a very significant loss for you - but the depth of your struggles has a lot more to do with the complexity of the relationship bond than the person.

In some important way this relationship saved or rejuvenated you. The way your BP partner hung on your every word, looked at you with admiring eyes and wanted you, filled an empty void.

Or, your BPD partner may have been insecure and needy and their problems inspired your sympathy and determination to resolve. Doing this made you feel exceptional, heroic, valuable.

As a result, you were willing to tolerate behavior beyond what you've known to be acceptable. You've felt certain that your BPD depended on you and that they would never leave. However challenging, you have been committed to see it through.

Unknown to you, your BPD partner was on a complex journey that started long before the relationship began. You were their “knight in shining armor”, you were their hope, and the answer to disappointments that they have struggled with most of their life.

Together, this made for an incredibly “loaded” relationship bond between the two of you.


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Mary Oliver:  Someone I loved gave me a box full of darkness. It took me years to understand that this too, was a gift

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« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2011, 09:55:42 AM »

discarded,

I didn't mean to say that she ENDED up being one, a healthy lover would NEVER do this to anybody.  I'm just saying that she runs on emotions and didn't want to do this to me.  She saw this pattern of mindless hurt, and wants to change it. There's another power at play, though, one which supersedes her own consciousness, and needs major therapy for any sort of hope to change it.   My argument was to take the zombie personification off BPD.  After all if they looked like zombies, most wouldn't have gotten with them...

There is a human with human emotions inside all of our BPDex's. However they are sick.  I think some are more disconnected than others.

Toxic. Even psychopathic, fully loaded with delusional thinking, twisting reality to suit their selfish needs, and wordplay.

We are on the same side of the argument, she is equally sick! I am equally hurt either side of it you want to believe...
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jhan6120
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« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2011, 10:07:34 AM »

There is a good deal of pain here. Borderline works in fantasy. It is the "longing for love" that is real in a borderline. They long for love and attachment like any human being. This is the easy part though. It doesn't require emotional maturity. It doesn't require another person moving towards ... .then away... .and back again. The ebb and flow of any relationship. Sometimes we need to focus more on work. Sometime we desire to focus more on a hobby or a skill. Sometimes we need time with our friends and family. Sometimes we want to just focus on our SO and our relationship. This is a healthy relationship. The borderline can't handle the ebb and flow. It causes abandonment fears. If you do make them your 24/7 world it causes engulfment fears and they see you as a controller or persecutor. There is no way to win that game. Being in a relationship with an untreated borderline is going to make your life very difficult. There is no way around it. It isn't intentional. I know it feels like it. It isn't. This is the mental illness.  They feel best in the beginning stage of love. That is why they break free and move on so easy. They don't do real intimacy. They do fantasy. Other thoughts from the article. The best question to ask ourselves is why can't we let go? What did they give us that we weren't giving ourselves? They filled a hole in us that bonded us to them. That was a hole that existed before they came along. We have our own "leaky buckets" to patch to become complete human beings. Enmeshment isn't healthy. It shows we have our own work to do.

Understand that you have become the trigger for your BPD partner's bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, you do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them. This is a complex defense mechanism that is often seen with borderline personality disorder when a relationship sours. It's roots emanate from the deep central wounds of the disorder. You can't begin to answer to this.

Breaking Up Was Never this Hard

Is it because they are so special? Sure they are special and this is a very significant loss for you - but the depth of your struggles has a lot more to do with the complexity of the relationship bond than the person.

In some important way this relationship saved or rejuvenated you. The way your BP partner hung on your every word, looked at you with admiring eyes and wanted you, filled an empty void.

Or, your BPD partner may have been insecure and needy and their problems inspired your sympathy and determination to resolve. Doing this made you feel exceptional, heroic, valuable.

As a result, you were willing to tolerate behavior beyond what you've known to be acceptable. You've felt certain that your BPD depended on you and that they would never leave. However challenging, you have been committed to see it through.

Unknown to you, your BPD partner was on a complex journey that started long before the relationship began. You were their “knight in shining armor”, you were their hope, and the answer to disappointments that they have struggled with most of their life.

Together, this made for an incredibly “loaded” relationship bond between the two of you.

Thanks for this. It really helped.
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« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2011, 10:45:27 AM »

Understand that you have become the trigger for your BPD partner's bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, you do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them. This is a complex defense mechanism that is often seen with borderline personality disorder when a relationship sours. It's roots emanate from the deep central wounds of the disorder. You can't begin to answer to this.

This is the paragraph that helped me in so many ways.  I have struggled so, so, so hard with the idea that losing me wasn't painful enough a thing for him to make him "hit the bottom".  The fact that he chose to live without me rather than face himself is something that I have struggled with immensely.  That reality has given me so much pain.  And I struggled so hard to understand how this could be so... how could life without me be that much "easier" for him, how could he see life without me as his only choice?  Why isn't it more painful for him?  And then I read the above paragraph... .and it helped me see why - why life without me for him is "easier"... .I heard the voice jump right off the page, speaking to me with such clarity:

"Jak - Understand that you have become the trigger for his bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, you do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them."

Idea It was a bit of a lightbulb moment upon reading this - it's a painful reality that I became (and remain) the trigger for all those feelings he needs to avoid, but it helped me put the "rejection" that I felt in a context in which it made some sense, and in which I could see that he doesn't mean to rip my heart in two like he did with his rejection of me, but rather, in a way, it's just all he believes he can cope with.
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« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2011, 11:21:43 AM »

I think our egos took the brunt of the impact. Our sense of self-worth was bolstered up by them. Then at the end, it was nearly destroyed. Having your self-confidence shattered into tiny pieces is a life changing thing. We shy away from social engagements, we recede into the background like a shadow. The feeling of self-worth is probably the most damaging thing that anyone can lose. A feeling of self-worth gives us confidence to get out and interact with others, and simply enjoy life. It's no wonder we're afraid of new experiences, new relationships.

It takes a long time to realize what's really happened here and why. It's only when we do that we can begin to regain some confidence and open up to what's out there in the world...
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« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2011, 01:45:30 PM »

I would have to say you're right about that... The ego doesn't like our SO to run off, and ego doesn't understand mental illness. It only knows its own survival.  When they abruptly leave us in a mess of confusion and heartbreak, our ego sees it as a tragic defeat. When they are gone with someone new almost over night, it sees that as its death.
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« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2011, 01:51:42 PM »

I think our egos took the brunt of the impact. Our sense of self-worth was bolstered up by them. Then at the end, it was nearly destroyed. Having your self-confidence shattered into tiny pieces is a life changing thing. We shy away from social engagements, we recede into the background like a shadow. The feeling of self-worth is probably the most damaging thing that anyone can lose. A feeling of self-worth gives us confidence to get out and interact with others, and simply enjoy life. It's no wonder we're afraid of new experiences, new relationships.

It takes a long time to realize what's really happened here and why. It's only when we do that we can begin to regain some confidence and open up to what's out there in the world...

This really hit home for me. Because I've had a lot of Codependent issues (having grown up in an alcoholic household) I sensed the idealization right away and it creeped me out. I even mentioned it to a few friends and my T. But still, after I gave my ex udBPDgf the boot, my pride hurt. I know the idealization wasn't about me; it was about fantasy (and her self-medicating with sex). That's what really bothers me. I'm a person, not a frickin' hologram!
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« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2011, 05:06:39 PM »

Great post broken, beat annd scarred... .that hit home!
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« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2011, 08:23:16 PM »

Excerpt
I think our egos took the brunt of the impact. Our sense of self-worth was bolstered up by them. Then at the end, it was nearly destroyed. Having your self-confidence shattered into tiny pieces is a life changing thing. We shy away from social engagements, we recede into the background like a shadow. The feeling of self-worth is probably the most damaging thing that anyone can lose. A feeling of self-worth gives us confidence to get out and interact with others, and simply enjoy life. It's no wonder we're afraid of new experiences, new relationships.

It takes a long time to realize what's really happened here and why. It's only when we do that we can begin to regain some confidence and open up to what's out there in the world.

Very true, it has taken me almost eighteen months and lots of soul searching to get out there again and feel centered and whole.
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« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2011, 08:53:24 PM »

Excerpt
Mind you it is not a request to talk about the r/s... .Her request comes with a condition. We have to make small talk and pretend nothing bad ever happened between us. Then we can talk... .Until she feels like raging at me... .Than I have to except her not talking to me for a few days  until she feels like engaging again with no mention of what just happened.

I never could put what has been going on... but this summed it up.


Excerpt
Understand that you have become the trigger for his bad feelings and bad behavior.

The irony... .their actions inflict pain within us, and their bad feelings create bad behavior, which cycles around until... .
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« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2011, 09:37:59 PM »

Excerpt
Mind you it is not a request to talk about the r/s... .Her request comes with a condition. We have to make small talk and pretend nothing bad ever happened between us. Then we can talk... .Until she feels like raging at me... .Than I have to except her not talking to me for a few days  until she feels like engaging again with no mention of what just happened.

I never could put what has been going on... but this summed it up.


Excerpt
Understand that you have become the trigger for his bad feelings and bad behavior.

The irony... .their actions inflict pain within us, and their bad feelings create bad behavior, which cycles around until... .

Yes the last thing my ex said was she is guarded with me, that she wants to keep it to simple pleasantried, then the less we know about each other we won't have horrible conversations.  However, I did not initiate any of those rage fests, and I am not a trigger anymore. 5 weeks no contact YAY!
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« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2011, 09:13:06 PM »

Much the same in my experience with ex as I have read here. She was always able to break away and disconnect so quickly... .I always wondered how she could do that because the way I love, I could never walk away so abruptly. She would do 180's like it was nothing. She had the biggest most generous heart, could be so sweet loving and caring, but it came at a price because there were times when she would withhold all of this from me and project her coldness. We broke up about two months ago and it has been very painful.  She had divorced twice and hadn't dated for three years when we met.  |> In our 2.5 years together I also heard many times "sometimes love isn't enough", so when I read this in other experiences I was honestly shocked. I always thought that was an odd comment. I would respond, "love is all you need", but she didn't believe that. She had to be in control too, could be highly critical, demanding, was quick-triggered rageful at times, and would abandon me and the relationship seemingly out of nowhere.  |>  |>  |> I spent countless efforts trying to effectively communicate healthy resolutions, but often times we just ran circles around each other. I used reason, logic, rationale, but she often times would not see her own dysfunction. I was the therapist, but in her mind I was the culprit. It seemed that our relationship had to make up for the failures of her marriages, but I am now learning that perhaps it was her personality that caused those marriages to fail, and not the marriages that caused her personality. We lived three hours from each other so that made it even more difficult. She wanted to see each other every weekend and had an extremely difficult time staying home alone. Many times during arguements she would get so frustrated she would grab her bags and leave my apartment acting as if the relationship was over and spent the night in her car. She would later say she only intended to leave, but she left as if it were over. It was cyclical, she would cut and run, I would real her back, we would have some time of goodness, and the process would start all over again. I finally told her that if she threatened to leave or actually did leave that I wouldn't come after anymore, but I could never follow through with it. A year in she broke up through an email. 1.5 years in she broke up on the phone as she was coming to visit me, told me not to call her and hung up and gave me the silent treatment for two months. I sent her a card and she callled me. Because I actually cared about her and loved her, and supposedly she me, we got back togehter.  Her rages were often worsened if she had a few drinks too. Twice she kicked me out of her place over little disagreements, mainly her inability to be respectful to my polite requests about relationship type expectattions. She always had a wall, always had a foot a mile out the door. Toward the end I could'nt handle the distance any longer and moved to her town and in with her, a mistake. She agreed to it, but after a month, she blew up and tok her frustartion out on me for an entire day calling me all kinds of names and was just ugly and mean. I almost left that day, but stayed for another month. In the end, I left, which was extremely difficult because I loved her and she wanted me to stay and work on the relationship. I was very confused, hurt, and no longer had any real ability to make decisions. I had lost confidence in who I was and placed resumes for jobs out of the area. Was offfered a job out of the country and after mpainstaking deliberation for a couple weeks, accepted it.  I stayed on for a month before I left and we had a honymoon period of being sweet to each other, she was going to visit me and we were going to see how things went. Once a strong and capable decision maker in life, I became somebody who was upside down and when i got over to the job, had severe inability to sleep and major bouts of anxiety, and was unable to get it together to quickly adjust and returned to the U.S. I told her I wanted to work on the relationship, told her I made a mistake and told her how much she meant to me and that I wanted to do things the right way, get my own place in her town, and seeek counseling together. She had already begun counseling for her anger before I left. Anway, she cut me off and said she was no longer in my life and was moving on, that we weren't good for each other. I had been gone less than two weeks total.  I left al ot things at her place too which we had decided she would take care of and I would come get when i got back to the states, or if we stayed together i would move back to her town. She renigged on it and told me she would ship it, then told me she would meet me, then said she would ship it, but all along was just keeping me from driving to her town (11 hour drive).  In the end we decided to meet we chose a place that was 3/4 of the way to her town and were going to tranfser my stuff from her car to mine, but an hour before we were to meet at my hotel, she text me that that she had put my stuff in a storage unit, ggave me the aaddress, and combination. Needless to say, I was shocked, hurt, and pissed off!  Needless to say, its back to the slent treatment and I feel just like i felt so many times int the relationship, like we'll never talk again, but this time I know it is the real thing. Now I am learning about BPD and still suffering from the devaluing, abandonment, projected anger, loss of confidence, and extreme pain left over from all the hurtful behavior by her and that I am now having to start over with my life, new home, new job, new everything. Most of all, I still love her, I miss her companionship and I am at a loss sometimes on how too feel about all of it. I know I wrote a lot here and I probably sound like a complete fool, but hopefully, my story wil be met with empathy by those who have been subjected to similar experiences...

"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all."     Dale Carneghie                                                                                                                         

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« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2012, 06:23:56 PM »

It is so difficult to lose somebody you love. Losing somebody to BPD is an intense emotional experience. The neediness draws us in but it isn't healthy. We neglect healthier relationships trying to please the BPD. We become lost because we are not getting proper emotional support. We think we can "love" our partner to good health. It isn't possible. We need to maintain our healthy relationships. They keep us grounded. It is OK to love our BPDs. The mistake we made was to make them the center of our life. Our partners should be a big part of our life but we can't neglect good relationships and the love from others in our lives. It leaves us isolated and vulnerable. Our own emotional health is just as important as our partners. 
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« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2012, 09:21:12 PM »

Mine told me she loved me but love isn't enough.

I knew mine didn't think the same as me because when argued I could never get any detail as to why she was upset. I would try to figure out what I did to upset her. She would get madder and madder the more questions I asked because everything she said would be so vague... .Such as I talked down to her or I didn't treat her the same anymore, or I didn't look at her the same anymore. I was madly in love with her still so it was all fantasy in her head. I told her that once and that really put her in a rage. If I kept asking questions she would start accusing me of not allowing her to express her emotions! To recap... .she is upset... .I try to find out what's wrong. She can't tell me. I keep questioning. She tells me she is mad at me because I keep questioning her and all she is trying to do is express her emotions! Ugggghhhhh!

I loved your post myself. So relevant. So similar except our feelings at the end. I let mine go in the end. I let go of my love for her too. Don't know how that is going to work out for me yet... .I've ignored mine's request for talking... .Mind you it is not a request to talk about the r/s... .Her request comes with a condition. We have to make small talk and pretend nothing bad ever happened between us. Then we can talk... .Until she feels like raging at me... .Than I have to except her not talking to me for a few days  until she feels like engaging again with no mention of what just happened.

I let go but I haven't worked through all my emotions yet. I never want to see her again. She treated me horribly and I deserve better than that.       

RIGHT ON OTH. Exactly what i went through/feel/did/everything
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« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2012, 03:45:18 PM »

It is so difficult to lose somebody you love. Losing somebody to BPD is an intense emotional experience. The neediness draws us in but it isn't healthy. We neglect healthier relationships trying to please the BPD. We become lost because we are not getting proper emotional support. We think we can "love" our partner to good health. It isn't possible. We need to maintain our healthy relationships. They keep us grounded. It is OK to love our BPDs. The mistake we made was to make them the center of our life. Our partners should be a big part of our life but we can't neglect good relationships and the love from others in our lives. It leaves us isolated and vulnerable. Our own emotional health is just as important as our partners. 

Hi OTH- I did well over the holidays, decorated, stayed away from family dinners bc of the man who overinvolved himself with my ex, and hung out with some new people I've met. But it was still painful, still sad, still beating myself up that we aren't friends. And I was thinking today I needed to  get on the boards here again, because I am losing sight of the mentally ill part and the need to let go of an unhealthy relationship. Whether I stayed for me or her it was going to hurt, whether I let go for me or her, it hurts. It's like the movie "Sophie's choice" either hurts and stings for awhile and needs to be healed because I could not make it better, I could not master the art of communication. And I need to remember that it is not  my fault it wasn't healthy, it's the nature of the illness, and no one can make it  healthy... .I heard she moved again and I'm assuming it is in with someone... .hard to stomach but I try to wish her well in my heart so I can heal. Sea
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« Reply #48 on: January 03, 2012, 04:47:07 PM »

"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all."     :)ale Carneghie                                                                                                                         

Oooh, that's a dangerous statement. That's what got me here today.

I'm usually a determined optimist

I've learned that sometimes it's better to know when to give up.
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« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2012, 04:38:53 PM »

As the relationship progressed I noticed this more and more, in both the big and little things our interpretations of events, people, or communication, could be very, very different.

Where I saw innocuous banter ... .he saw someone insulting.

Where he saw opportunity ... .I saw redflags.

What I interpreted as jealousy ... .he interpreted as love.

This list could go on, but you get my drift.

-GM
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« Reply #50 on: July 25, 2012, 05:12:46 PM »

"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all."     Dale Carneghie                                                                                                                        

Oooh, that's a dangerous statement. That's what got me here today.

I'm usually a determined optimist

I've learned that sometimes it's better to know when to give up.

Ayup.  The thing is simply that the regular rules don't apply to them.

There is no meeting of the minds.  In these circumstances, by common law there is no contract.  It makes me ponder whether there is any real r/s.  My conclusion is no.  As I have told myself endless times, "it's not real".

I believe the majority of pwBPD have a tenuous grasp of reality.  The lack of object constancy is consistent with this assertion, as is their frequent irrationality.  It's a terrible thing.  

I recognize that many are mean spirited and I stipulate that I can't speak to this.  My ex was not.  I believe she had "neutral", as opposed to good or bad character.  For those like her: they can't help acting the way they do, yet their behavior is so objectionable, so offensive, so repulsive that many are not inclined to "cut them any slack", so to speak.

One thing I have come to understand is that to pwBPD, nons are pretty much interchangeable.  This is why they can depart with such ease, and why they are in a (or several) new r/s (s) so quickly.  In essence, they get new partners to "read the lines" but they replay the same script, time after time.

My ex attempted to "recycle" me two weeks ago, after fifteen months of absolute NC.  In her extended voice mail she used the same manipulations she has always used to lure me back.  The essence of them was that I was special, different from (and better than) all her other partners.

The truth is that to her, I am, emotionally speaking, interchangeable with any other non.  The only reason she wished to "recycle" me was that she needed some things that she believed would be easier to acquire from me than from anyone else.  In this instance I believe these were material.

I believe it is possible that when she uttered certain words to me, that she actually believed them.  But how did she feel the next day?  

Understanding in my heart that to her, there was nothing special about me as a person, and I served only as a meal ticket and placeholder, was the final key to my permanent freedom.

NC maintained.
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« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2012, 01:11:47 PM »

This was a difficult one for me. Even while she was with the guy she was cheating on me with (from other research very common in BPD) she was texting me "Love U."

It is obvious from that interaction with her that she has no idea of what real love is. So while I wanted to believe that the love I felt was the same for her, no way it could have been.

Thinking back in time and doing so without my rose colored glasses, the relationship was very one sided... .I am guessing that is a common theme with these types of relationships.
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« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2012, 10:54:56 PM »

This belief was one of my biggest hooks. How could a soulmate turn into Darth Vader overnight? How could she not feel as deeply as I did for her? All of the excitement planning a wedding and our life together suddenly meaningless! It's a difficult truth to accept, but accepting it has led to my freedom. I don't wish ill on her b/c I understand she is quite broken. I see it as a very intense life lesson and wake-up call. NC is for me, but it also gives her a better chance to rescue herself.
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« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2012, 07:41:34 AM »

"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all."     Dale Carneghie                                                                                                                        

Oooh, that's a dangerous statement. That's what got me here today.

I'm usually a determined optimist

I've learned that sometimes it's better to know when to give up.

Ayup.  The thing is simply that the regular rules don't apply to them.

There is no meeting of the minds.  In these circumstances, by common law there is no contract.  It makes me ponder whether there is any real r/s.  My conclusion is no.  As I have told myself endless times, "it's not real".


One thing I have come to understand is that to pwBPD, nons are pretty much interchangeable.  This is why they can depart with such ease, and why they are in a (or several) new r/s (s) so quickly.  In essence, they get new partners to "read the lines" but they replay the same script, time after time.

My ex attempted to "recycle" me two weeks ago, after fifteen months of absolute NC.  In her extended voice mail she used the same manipulations she has always used to lure me back.  The essence of them was that I was special, different from (and better than) all her other partners.

The truth is that to her, I am, emotionally speaking, interchangeable with any other non.  The only reason she wished to "recycle" me was that she needed some things that she believed would be easier to acquire from me than from anyone else.  In this instance I believe these were material.

I believe it is possible that when she uttered certain words to me, that she actually believed them.  But how did she feel the next day?  

Understanding in my heart that to her, there was nothing special about me as a person, and I served only as a meal ticket and placeholder, was the final key to my permanent freedom.

NC maintained.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  Thanks this post. I have just stared NC (six days today) and absolutely believe (though it hurts) that she thought of me like a normal person would think of a toaster (in my case it was cash station ?). When the toaster looks like it is going to stop working (may abandoned her) she immediately throws it away and begins looking for another toaster (unless, of course, there is a toaster already in her possession). But in the back of her mind the toaster that it (ME) may still work again --a few more slices of toast--so she doesn't send it to the trash but puts it on a high shelf in the back of a closet--so that she has another backup in case the new toaster fails. The are lots of discarded toasters on that shelf.
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« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2012, 08:46:38 AM »

this topic got me strolling down memory lane. all of the fights and arguments i put up with. i remember talking to my friend about it and that was the first time i got confirmation that what was going on was actually abuse.  Up until that point i was stuck in her fantasy world isolated left only with my core valuees and principles to defend me. Like so many have expressed here my uBPDexgf of 3 years was on a totally different wavelength than i was and i too witnessed a transformation from the person i knew to the monster that came to be. When i expressed this to her she said that "thiss is who she really was" after that i started running knew it was over.  alot of the fights usually centered around me not loving her enough, hugging her enough, kissing her enough, spending enough time with her. the whole gamit of questioning my love for her when i never gave her a reason to suspect me of cheating. I was committed to her. She would even argue that i worked too much yet she alwayss wanted to expected me to take her out and spend money on her?

I am so glad i am 4 months out NC with her but still dealing with the detachment.

I hope others fair better thn i did

confuzzled
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« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2012, 01:25:14 PM »

In the devaluing phase we are as unplesant to them as a smelly skunk in the room. Try standing next to a dead skunk in the road and then try and convince yourself it doesn't stink. 
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« Reply #56 on: August 27, 2012, 04:59:23 PM »

Nope.  No way.  No How.

My BPD can not, objectively, feel the same way about me as I do her.  I know I could write thousands of examples, but, that she says she is every bit as devastated as me while having sex with her boyfriend, just doesn't hold water.  Not sure how specifically she feels, probably scared, angry, vengeful, guilty, ... .really good... ., but she does not feel the same as I do.  And never has.Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #57 on: August 27, 2012, 05:51:26 PM »

Nope, if they were in the same rs we were in, it wouldnt be discarded like trash.  I had a nasty divorce yrs ago & after all was said & done, we can actually talk occasionally now.  Why?  Bc we were in the same rs all those yrs & both aware of the breakdown.  We fought, screamed, acted like we hated each other (prob did at the time) but moved on& healed at the same time, staying on the same page!

I cite this bc it signifies the diff between more "healthy" & not.  Either way, "normal" people still realize they spent a portion of their lives with someone, thus remembering it, usually eventually able to see the best of it bc that's what we choose to take away (for me anyway). 

Above helped me heal from a rs that wasn't gonna work & needed to end after all else failed.  This BPD rs showed the first signs of perceived "trouble" (where I was kicked off the pedastal) to never return.  Spent over a year trying.  I can honestly say I've never left (or been ditched) when I still held so many unresolved issues or such feelings.  Even my anger was suppressed by her sudden NC along with everything else. 

No way they feel the same.  Moving on from this is a long process... .11 days NC.  I broke once.  Did no good... .kicked myself in the balls afterwards.

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« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2012, 07:00:56 PM »

I'm reading all these posts with disbelief... .this is exactly what has happened to me. Exactly.

one month no contact and I am struggling. While I understand he will not give validation, our last conversation was via phone and he threatened to 'destroy' my world if I contacted him again.

We move in the same small circle of entertainers. He has been spreading lies about me. I want to contact him and try to calmly explain he has nothing to fear from me, but I'm not sure what his reaction, if any, would be. I think he would see me contacting him as a betrayal of trust - even though he has informed me he doesn't trust me, in the very same conversation he demanded a promise not to contact him again

Please don't attack me. I'm halfway between the 'hopeful' stage (that we could maintain the friendship we had and the 'resigned'stage. He has moved on with someone else. I'm extremely confused and hurt 
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« Reply #59 on: October 12, 2012, 03:50:34 AM »

Excerpt
I think our egos took the brunt of the impact. Our sense of self-worth was bolstered up by them. Then at the end, it was nearly destroyed. Having your self-confidence shattered into tiny pieces is a life changing thing. We shy away from social engagements, we recede into the background like a shadow. The feeling of self-worth is probably the most damaging thing that anyone can lose. A feeling of self-worth gives us confidence to get out and interact with others, and simply enjoy life. It's no wonder we're afraid of new experiences, new relationships.

It takes a long time to realize what's really happened here and why. It's only when we do that we can begin to regain some confidence and open up to what's out there in the world.

Very true, it has taken me almost eighteen months and lots of soul searching to get out there again and feel centered and whole.

same-same. So well put.

Know myself as a juicy, creative and 'going' person. But now. Have withdrawn from social engagements a lot. Not completely. Important is now feeling safe, no challanges, routines, solitude (yet sometimes difficult)

/Careman

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« Reply #60 on: October 12, 2012, 04:34:46 AM »

This is definitely a real hard one to accept - that he didn't/doesn't feel the same as what I feel.  I think when he said he loved me, he meant it.  It was his version of love, and whatever he was feeling in those moments, was a very intense emotion for him.  He wasn't lying.  But trying to accept that it's never quite been the same thing for him as it has for me is just so difficult.  

For me personally it has two effects... One is sadness as i hear all the stories repeat themselves... yes i heard "love isnt enough" as well... .it makes me really sad to see all these nice, caring and loving people so gutted by the workings of the BPD. Yes i have and am still somewhat gutted by it all. I too heard i love you more than anyone or anything, my life is always with you, i couldnt live with out you... etc... then bang yes a goodbye email and painted blacker then black...

This is how it was for me too.  I heard all the same stuff - "I love you more than I've ever loved anyone... ", but then also "love just isn't enough sometimes... ." - so much of what other people say is the same stuff I heard.  And what is so hard to come to terms with is the way that you can be told you are loved more than anything, but then just left, with what seems to be such ease for them.  

For me, the hardest thing sometimes is the fact that he doesn't feel the same way that I feel now, in trying to deal with the break-up and the loss.  That he has that ability to just "disconnect" from the feelings he had, so he probably does not grieve the loss as I do, he probably does not miss it all as I do.  The fact that dealing with the loss is just probably nothing like the same process for him as it is for me, because he has that "disconnect" thing going on.  That's hard to accept.  You just want to believe that they go through all the same difficult emotions now.  But it's hard to accept that the loss is probably not felt the same way by him as it is by me.

I believe it is all about us bonding/attaching, which is normal human functioning. Our pwBPD doesn't simply because they CANNOT, ant that is part of their dysfunction. In the moment they feel strongly 'BPD-love' for us, which probably is different from our 'non's-love' for them (and for others), but theirs wear off quickly, evaporates, doesn't stay. Ours stay, forming an attachment. Breaking a bond/attachment is painful. We do, they don't. Hence they can leave in a blink, while we can't.

And it is not that they are more 'free' and we are 'stuck'. It is a survival function of our species inherited from the stoneage, to keep flocks/families gathered for sharing of food and protection for the period after the love affair, to guarantee the upbringing of our offspring. It is healthy and still valid.

To me it has been very healing to grasp the 'momentarily-ness' of their feelings. And that that is a dysfunction, and that attaching is the norm and that that norm is existentially motivated.
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« Reply #61 on: October 12, 2012, 11:51:30 AM »

Well said, I feel odd because my attachment hasn't worn off yet. I was positive after the last break up that I had broken it, but I'm not quite there yet. Your post helps me feel a little better about myself for not completely moving on by now
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« Reply #62 on: October 23, 2012, 08:45:25 AM »

how long is it. mine is 7 months and Im still struggling sometimes. Up til about now I have been crying on a daily basis.
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« Reply #63 on: October 23, 2012, 12:12:36 PM »

I agree with this post, but I have a question.  After it has all been said and done and we no longer have any hope of saving what we had, why do they keep playing games with us.  After all the talk that we need to let go, why after we do and move on to the next thing, why do they still want us to play this game, why do they really not want us to move on.
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« Reply #64 on: October 23, 2012, 04:09:28 PM »

It allows them to maintain the illusion of a "connection" and so they feel valued... .so they don't "feel" alone. Twisted thinking.
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« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2012, 04:13:45 PM »

I agree with this post, but I have a question.  After it has all been said and done and we no longer have any hope of saving what we had, why do they keep playing games with us.  After all the talk that we need to let go, why after we do and move on to the next thing, why do they still want us to play this game, why do they really not want us to move on.

This is my question too, which I have some minor ideas about, why after two years of livng somewhere else in order to get a job, I have moved on, they move back, and are starting to tell people the reason she left is because of me... .

why bother, nobody even knows we were together anymore... .it's kind of like the narcisstic fuel, I think, it's not about them anymore so their going to keep things going even if they distort it to the nth degree. They like to be perceived as a victim, and I am not sure if that is only because they are looking for people to fill their need or get the next host or what... .just scary bc I had a whole life built and then they move back and act like I am the one who is stalking, when I had no idea they perceived me this way... .yikes... Sea
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« Reply #66 on: October 23, 2012, 05:51:57 PM »

I agree with this post, but I have a question.  After it has all been said and done and we no longer have any hope of saving what we had, why do they keep playing games with us.  After all the talk that we need to let go, why after we do and move on to the next thing, why do they still want us to play this game, why do they really not want us to move on.

This is my question too, which I have some minor ideas about, why after two years of livng somewhere else in order to get a job, I have moved on, they move back, and are starting to tell people the reason she left is because of me... .

why bother, nobody even knows we were together anymore... .it's kind of like the narcisstic fuel, I think, it's not about them anymore so their going to keep things going even if they distort it to the nth degree. They like to be perceived as a victim, and I am not sure if that is only because they are looking for people to fill their need or get the next host or what... .just scary bc I had a whole life built and then they move back and act like I am the one who is stalking, when I had no idea they perceived me this way... .yikes... Sea

IMHO, people only play games if we allow it.

BPD is a mental illness... .maladaptive coping skills and lack of boundaries are simply a couple of ways this illness presents itself. 

This thread is designed to look at your role in this - why are you hanging onto a false belief your pwBPD will  feel and act the same as you?

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« Reply #67 on: October 23, 2012, 05:56:42 PM »

I agree with this post, but I have a question.  After it has all been said and done and we no longer have any hope of saving what we had, why do they keep playing games with us.  After all the talk that we need to let go, why after we do and move on to the next thing, why do they still want us to play this game, why do they really not want us to move on.

This is my question too, which I have some minor ideas about, why after two years of livng somewhere else in order to get a job, I have moved on, they move back, and are starting to tell people the reason she left is because of me... .

why bother, nobody even knows we were together anymore... .it's kind of like the narcisstic fuel, I think, it's not about them anymore so their going to keep things going even if they distort it to the nth degree. They like to be perceived as a victim, and I am not sure if that is only because they are looking for people to fill their need or get the next host or what... .just scary bc I had a whole life built and then they move back and act like I am the one who is stalking, when I had no idea they perceived me this way... .yikes... Sea

IMHO, people only play games if we allow it.

BPD is a mental illness... .maladaptive coping skills and lack of boundaries are simply a couple of ways this illness presents itself.  

This thread is designed to look at your role in this - why are you hanging onto a false belief your pwBPD will  feel and act the same as you?

Maybe because as they may have been mirroring us for a long time, we're used to see them think and behave more or less like us... .?

I don't have the answer... .
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« Reply #68 on: October 23, 2012, 06:00:44 PM »

Maybe because as they may have been mirroring us for a long time, we're used to see them think and behave more or less like us... .?

I don't have the answer... .

how can this false belief help you find some peace or closure?
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« Reply #69 on: October 23, 2012, 06:15:14 PM »

Maybe because as they may have been mirroring us for a long time, we're used to see them think and behave more or less like us... .?

I don't have the answer... .

how can this false belief help you find some peace or closure?

It doesn't.

Now that I'm aware of that, I don't expect anything from her so I'm not disappointed (or less disappointed according to the circumstances or my mood or my emotional state when a situation takes place).
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« Reply #70 on: October 23, 2012, 06:19:21 PM »

SB-So are you saying that us processing these breakups and their distorting of it is just another false belief... .that we should not expect that they should feel about this even years later the way that we do... .so in that way this should help give me some closure?

wow... .all I keep thinking about is the part that all bets are off, and anything could happen with renewed contact. Didn't see her visiting with my family as a recycle attempt, just thought it was my step-mom's piss poor judgement.

Something to think about... .
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« Reply #71 on: October 23, 2012, 06:28:31 PM »

SB-So are you saying that us processing these breakups and their distorting of it is just another false belief... .that we should not expect that they should feel about this even years later the way that we do... .so in that way this should help give me some closure?

I asked if accepting this false belief gives you peace or closure.

Do you accept this false belief as true?


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« Reply #72 on: October 23, 2012, 07:01:28 PM »

I can say that her perception of what happened was a false belief, sure. I just thought the false beliefs dealt with being in the relationship, not out of the relationship.So I guess I am asking for clarification.

If I look at her thoughts and perception as a false belief, and apply it that way, yes I think it could give me peace.
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« Reply #73 on: October 23, 2012, 08:13:14 PM »

I can say that her perception of what happened was a false belief, sure. I just thought the false beliefs dealt with being in the relationship, not out of the relationship.So I guess I am asking for clarification.

If I look at her thoughts and perception as a false belief, and apply it that way, yes I think it could give me peace.

Sea,

This subject is False Beliefs that keep us stuck from article 9

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

If you believe that your BPD partner was experiencing the relationship in the same way that you were or that they are feeling the same way you do right now, don’t count on it. This will only serve to confuse you and make it harder to understand what is really happening.

When any relationship breaks down, it’s often because the partners are on a different “page” – but much more so when your partner suffers with borderline personality disorder traits.

Unknown to you, there were likely significant periods of shame, fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it’s a culmination of feelings that have been brewing in the relationship.


Can you help me understand your question as it applies here?
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« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2012, 08:19:04 PM »

In particular cases, it's very difficult to know and to understand what is in their minds, how they feel and what are their motivations.

For us nons, on emotional grounds : cause => effect

Often for BPDs : effects don't have causes.
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« Reply #75 on: October 23, 2012, 09:01:28 PM »

I don't have a question, I just never thought to apply this to something two years later. But it makes sense why we are so not on the same page, the difference is I did not tell anyone about the relationship, and she tells her side of the story to everyone, the facts so distorted to the point that I couldn't believe she was even talking about me.

Sorry SB but lately we don't seem to be communicating clearly... .
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« Reply #76 on: October 23, 2012, 11:31:57 PM »

I can say that her perception of what happened was a false belief, sure. I just thought the false beliefs dealt with being in the relationship, not out of the relationship.So I guess I am asking for clarification.

I was referring to this question/clarification when I asked for you to tell me more about it.

I don't have a question, I just never thought to apply this to something two years later. But it makes sense why we are so not on the same page, the difference is I did not tell anyone about the relationship, and she tells her side of the story to everyone, the facts so distorted to the point that I couldn't believe she was even talking about me.

Sorry SB but lately we don't seem to be communicating clearly... .

No worries about clear communication, this is what questions are for - sometimes we all think we are being clear and it comes across differently... .not really that big of a deal to me

Using your clarification of applying this 2 years later - well, yes... .it is going to apply.  She saw your relationship differently than you throughout... .she is telling your family this (it seems from other posts you have written) - I imagine that is a hard pill to swallow Sea - I would be pissed at my family for sure.

It sounds like you have a lot going on emotionally and you are being challenged with detaching since she keeps coming around.  Hang in there.
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« Reply #77 on: October 24, 2012, 08:43:59 AM »

In particular cases, it's very difficult to know and to understand what is in their minds, how they feel and what are their motivations.

For us nons, on emotional grounds : cause => effect

Often for BPDs : effects don't have causes.

Yeah exactly what my T says. She goes 'poff' then 'poff' again in antother direction. And it makes sense to me, while looking from a perspective of me being the cause makes non-sense and creates confusion.

Believing that my rescue effort was the cause of a wanted (by me) effect in her, yields a 'kick' in the brain's reward system of dopamine and such, strengthening the bond and my attachment to her.  Every time she flips into the good graces, and I believe I caused it, attachment builds, and the upcoming detachment (as written in stone as it seems from reading the boards) has a bit more pain to be suffered and endured.

/Careman
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« Reply #78 on: October 24, 2012, 04:17:45 PM »

that is a hard pill to swallow Sea - I would be pissed at my family for sure.

It sounds like you have a lot going on emotionally and you are being challenged with detaching since she keeps coming around.  Hang in there.[/quote]
Yes, sadly it is very hard to swallow, affects my self doubt, my trust, even this new person I've been dating says it is scary for her to watch how my family is handling this "drama", and it is but it is their drama, that I have to respond to and not let it affect me in the present. But it does, I get a little paranoid, over reactive, and my compass is off course for the moment. Hard to compartmentalize this stuff, I can at work, but difficult in my personal life... .going to start going to church just to be around spiritual people and to Al anon just to keep working on detaching with love and not anger... .too much to keep having to deal with this crap. But thanks for responding and helping me get clear... .
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« Reply #79 on: October 24, 2012, 04:26:44 PM »

how long is it. mine is 7 months and Im still struggling sometimes. Up til about now I have been crying on a daily basis.

I'm just short of a year now, no contact since June. I just get that feeling, that I wasn't good enough, or it would have worked out.

"It allows them to maintain the illusion of a "connection" and so they feel valued... .so they don't "feel" alone. Twisted thinking.". -findingmyselfagain

It's kind of funny you mention that, last time I contacted her, she told me that there would always be a connection between us.
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« Reply #80 on: October 24, 2012, 05:49:13 PM »

My ex told me once 'you leave me feeling utterly deflated'. It was just after I'd been away with my kids and their dad for 3 days. Ex went weird, told me 'it actually physically hurts' when I'd been gone 24 hours.

Then he turned, went distant, seemed to get pissed off with me because I didn't leave as early as I said I would (I have 2 kids and a feckless ex- no big deal). Said he didn't want to see me when I got back- he felt like being quiet.

I felt utterly different- I missed him but I was enjoying my time with my kids. I was looking forward to seeing him having missed him so much!

He didn't feel like I did. He felt a desperation I only started to glimpse at that point- I had no idea what it was then. But he sure felt differently to me.

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« Reply #81 on: October 25, 2012, 08:11:26 AM »

A lot of things that seemed cute at the time... .texting 24/7, hanging out 5 nights a week, tons of loving FB posts, keeping my shirts, putting up cards I sent in her room, souvenirs from dates, pictures... .probably is genuinely cool in a healthy r/s. But in moderation. Maybe not so much with adults. It was more or less a "teenage dream"... .in my mind maybe as much as in hers. Instead of her love being deep, genuine and lasting... .it was an intense fantasy that was due to self-destruct. I have to admit I bought it hook, line, and sinker.

I tried to make friends with her but the roller coaster was even more evident. One day she was friendly. The next time she went off the deep end. Finally, I gave it up and went NC. Finally the evidence of the disorder/emotional problems was just too much and it wasn't accomplishing anything.
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« Reply #82 on: November 20, 2012, 08:20:36 AM »

During the break-up my ex uBPDgf told me "You don't know this but I resented you for a year." That hit me like a brick. I had no idea what the hell she was talking about because she was still being "cute" with me almost all the time and going about the relationship as usual.

You are lucky that she was willing to let you in on that, mine never admitted any fault, just kept on blaming me for her running off with another guy and then getting pregnant.
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« Reply #83 on: November 20, 2012, 08:26:29 AM »

A lot of things that seemed cute at the time... .texting 24/7, hanging out 5 nights a week, tons of loving FB posts, keeping my shirts, putting up cards I sent in her room, souvenirs from dates, pictures... .probably is genuinely cool in a healthy r/s. But in moderation. Maybe not so much with adults. It was more or less a "teenage dream"... .in my mind maybe as much as in hers. Instead of her love being deep, genuine and lasting... .it was an intense fantasy that was due to self-destruct. I have to admit I bought it hook, line, and sinker.

No worries, you are not alone. I got the same sense of the childish nature of the my relationship. I did my best to drag her into the "adult" world but it never took. For doing that she saw me as boring and replaced me with a guy her age who loves to drink as much as she does... .now is going to be her baby Daddy!
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« Reply #84 on: November 20, 2012, 08:29:41 AM »

My ex told me that he loved me and would always love me, but never could tell me why we couldn't be together.  He also confessed to me that he had always just told me what I wanted to hear and told a mutual friend that he just wanted things to go back to the way we were before we dated.  He now pretends we never happened and that he doesn't know me.  After being together for 1.5 years and seeing/talking almost every day.  He's so cold, it's like he's looking right through me. 
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« Reply #85 on: November 20, 2012, 08:43:13 AM »

My ex told me that he loved me and would always love me, but never could tell me why we couldn't be together.  He also confessed to me that he had always just told me what I wanted to hear and told a mutual friend that he just wanted things to go back to the way we were before we dated.  He now pretends we never happened and that he doesn't know me.  After being together for 1.5 years and seeing/talking almost every day.  He's so cold, it's like he's looking right through me. 

When I found out mine was cheating and I was making plans to move out, my ex came up and even verbalized the idea of being room mates. This is the same woman who was looking for me to buy her a ring just a couple of weeks earlier. This sort of thing gives you the sense of just how they see us. It isn't in anyway the same as we see them. There is a lot of stuff on this website that describes this sort of black and white thinking that goes on in BPD.
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« Reply #86 on: November 20, 2012, 10:21:54 AM »

For some reason my exBPDgf couldn't help herself from interrupting our conversations all the time.  She knew it was counterproductive while we were discussing issues but it was like she couldn't  stop from saying something everytime I spoke.  The pd individual can only think on a linear scale and seldom listens to what is being told to them.  They are always about the next issue that focuses on themselves as being the most important thing to talk about.
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« Reply #87 on: November 21, 2012, 02:18:31 AM »

To believe that anybody is the "same" as you is a concern. Isn't that co-dependency? My partner is totally different from me and we work hard to communicate but listening to each other helps. There was no way a "toddler" relationship could facilitate this.
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« Reply #88 on: November 21, 2012, 03:06:02 AM »

she feels nothing like i feel. nada. zip. zero.  she is just a black hole of feelings, sucking the will to live out of me so that she can keep the transfusion going until she sucks the will to live out of the next ignorant fool
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« Reply #89 on: March 04, 2013, 05:15:47 PM »

A great thread on so many levels. It seems to resonate with so many people. I think the ingredient here is our hearts and minds acting normally by processing the information we think we are looking at, we know its all there, its evident and and we assign the 'facts' to be understood for what they are and mistakenly try to deal with it via our reasoning. But wait, none of those things the BPD'er said, had done or acted before or since separating from us matches the information we are working with. Remember, they jealously loved and needed us yet we are discarded like a used tissue. We did'nt love them 'like they wanted to be loved'. They need the friendship of the opposite sex, If we talk to a similar he or she (no matter who, age, looks or what) we are going to leave them. I laugh (a hollow laugh) remembering when I was pushed out of my marriage, home and Kids relationships and she gave me a photo of the kids (of course with her in the middle of the shot) with the tag line here is what 'you've' thrown away. Within weeks she'd moved on fast with a BF who was waiting in the wings, After two years she calls to my apartment to pick up my daughter (who invites her in) glances into my bedroom and see my GF's earrings on the nitestand then rings me next day yelling 'you're f**k**g her! you B'std!. My mind was saying what is happening here. It took years for me to work out what the hell was going on - I found the answers here on these boards and on the info pages. I remember Bob Dylan's song 'Idiot Wind' and him singing 'whats good is bad whats bad is good you'll find out when you reach the top you're on the bottom' and I can tell you after years not knowing what he meant then I sure do now. Thank heavens for this site - I thought I was going crazy till I got here. And whilst I still can (selectively) look back over the few good times, at least my time spent trying to solve, figure out and make sense out of the insensible does'nt take up those hours of replaying question after question in my mind before eventually falling asleep. We live with the damage out of the aftermath (so does my GF, bless her) its our legacy they bequieth to us - But it does'nt have to be for life (good luck to all - its do'able!)
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« Reply #90 on: May 15, 2013, 10:41:45 PM »

I was intoxicated period. That meant I did not exercise my best judgement and on some level knew she was unstable. I certainly did not know the dark vengeful person that appeared from the shadows once I was captured. I cannot blame myself for that, but I take responsibility for engaging in a partnership that I felt may be flawed. I wanted so badly to believe in the fantasy of love. Not the most intelligent thing I've done.
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« Reply #91 on: May 17, 2013, 01:06:28 AM »

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

If you believe that your BPD partner was experiencing the relationship in the same way that you were or that they are feeling the same way you do right now, don’t count on it. This will only serve to confuse you and make it harder to understand what is really happening.

I am slowly accepting that she NEVER felt the same way I did. She may have used the same words as I did, but they meant something entirely different to her. "I love you" meant to her: In this split second I feel love for you. But, when you're out of sight, or someone "better" comes along, I don't love you anymore. She couldn't carry me in her heart (object constancy) unless I was present and/or attending to her never ending need for approval, validation, emotional support... .  

When any relationship breaks down, it’s often because the partners are on a different “page” – but much more so when your partner suffers with borderline personality disorder traits.

Over time, her splitting, insults, belittling, snide remarks, rages, out of the blue NCs, demands, indifference to my needs and concerns, her unremitting depression/anxiety, and my perpetual walking on eggshells wore me down. I grew quieter, less amorous, my innate sense of humor evaporated, I was tense, on edge, exhausted. Her source of narcissistic supply (me) was drying up, so she moved on to the next shiny new person.     

Unknown to you, there were likely significant periods of shame, fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it’s a culmination of feelings that have been brewing in the relationship.

Yes, yes, yes ! ! ! ! At the end I was flabbergasted by the extent of the anger and resentment she harbored towards me. She raged for hours over unimportant, incidental things. She blamed me for things I had absolutely nothing to do with. I was emotionally and psychologically brought to my knees by the depth of her rancor. It wasn't that we were on different pages, we were in entirely different universes.

Untangling why I allowed myself to be so horribly used and abused by someone in the name of "love", is the only thing that can restore me to sanity at this point.   
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« Reply #92 on: May 17, 2013, 03:24:37 AM »

Very good observations by everyone, and this "myth" has been the most troubling for me also, during my detachment.

I was so confused about how she would think me being temporarily upset/angry about something was me hating her entirely. Even a look from me that she didn't like would trigger her. I knew it felt "off" but I didn't want to leave her. I loved her, right? For the longest I felt it was all my fault as well, and yeah I tried to change some things about myself. Now I know nothing I changed would have helped. She was fully aware of her "flipping out" as I called it once and she at one point even tried to rationalize that it wouldn't happen again, or if it did happen again, she would behave differently. When I asked her why she did that she just said, "I don't know". I just think at this point she doesn't want to deal with the pain of facing her illness, let alone treatment. So she will continue to see and feel everything different no matter who comes next. The cycle continues... .  

Myself pretty much summed up a great deal of what I went through and felt at the time. I just knew things were not on an equal playing field concerning love. Her actions and words just didn't show that reciprocation at all times. 

In the end she actually told me she was looking for a different "type" of love. More spiritual. Like my love wasn't good enough or something. Just more made us bs in her head to warrant her moving on with a clear conscience. I literally witnessed a complete transformation of this woman I fell in love with. As I see it with clear eyes now, it seems so tragic and sad, but also scary at the same time.

More love = pain. Who would have thought?

Thank you, you have summed up my relationship to a T
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« Reply #93 on: May 20, 2013, 11:42:04 PM »

I was madly in love with her still so it was all fantasy in her head. I told her that once and that really put her in a rage. If I kept asking questions she would start accusing me of not allowing her to express her emotions! To recap... . she is upset... . I try to find out what's wrong. She can't tell me. I keep questioning. She tells me she is mad at me because I keep questioning her and all she is trying to do is express her emotions! Ugggghhhhh!

My xuBPDgf wanted badly to be seen/heard/known. "There is a little girl inside of me screaming 'see me, see me, see me' " she said. Questions to her was oftentimes evidence to the contrary. Questions = proof of not being seen/heard/known. Yielding in her a sense of disconnect, frustration, 'I give up',  and from there her abandonment response could kick in starting off a push-pull cycle.

Perhaps that's what was at play between the two of you.

/Careman
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« Reply #94 on: June 14, 2013, 01:01:58 AM »

even though you wrote this a long time ago, it was super helpful to me. Thanks so much,

H
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« Reply #95 on: July 13, 2013, 01:10:38 AM »

During the break-up my ex uBPDgf told me "You don't know this but I resented you for a year." That hit me like a brick. I had no idea what the hell she was talking about because she was still being "cute" with me almost all the time and going about the relationship as usual.


And then I got replaced.

I got mine about two months after the final break-up. For the first two months, he "threatened" suicide. I grew tired of it and demanded that he move out of our neighborhood (we live 100yds from each other). It was messed up. I was drunk.

When I did that he unloaded all this stuff that he "had thought at one point or other in [our] relationship". And he actually said "you served your purpose".

To be honest, I threw a lot of stuff at him during several of our many break-ups. The worst was at the end when he made like he was trying to get back with me and I realized he was anything but sincere. I said things that were designed to make him not want to come back. I felt badly in the weeks after and apologized. He's never apologized to me (which is fine, I get it).

I'm moving out of state this week for reasons other than him. I'm looking forward to not continually looking over my shoulder.

Thanks for the article, it was helpful.
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« Reply #96 on: September 25, 2013, 08:29:19 PM »

I think we have to be careful not to romanticise things. I used to fall for anything that looked attractive and sounded "sweet" or sensitive, believing much of it was spoken from the heart. Watch and listen carefully and you will notice many differences.
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« Reply #97 on: November 09, 2013, 08:44:09 PM »

Untangling why I allowed myself to be so horribly used and abused by someone in the name of "love", is the only thing that can restore me to sanity at this point.   

I am in exactly this space/place.

I need to understand how and why I allowed him to reel me in like he did and how and why I didn't erect the boundaries that were obviously needed but rather, bowed to his every whim just so he would continue to adore me ... anything for that adoration. it makes me feel sick that I allowed it all this time, and even sicker that I am not through it yet and still crave him, this very second when he is actually staying the weekend with his new lover (he went on his first date with her the very night he dumped me).

I need to understand what he filled in me and how not to let anybody else every do this to me again.
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« Reply #98 on: November 10, 2013, 01:10:01 AM »

I need to understand how and why I allowed him to reel me in like he did and how and why I didn't erect the boundaries that were obviously needed but rather, bowed to his every whim just so he would continue to adore me ... anything for that adoration.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

To acknowledge this is a great first step.
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« Reply #99 on: November 10, 2013, 01:25:08 AM »

Letting go of the belief *that my BPD partner feels the same way as I feel*

... .this is THE hardest part of all this for me.


Why? Because nothing in my experience of being human can really grasp this.

In the Universe I lived in prior to this experience, and with all the other humans I've interacted with so far in my life, I had a belief about how humans are. And I believed that we all had empathy and compassion. Hurts yes, blocks, yes, but underneath it basic empathy and compassion.

I did not know someone could literally split, could be unable to see things other than in B/W, could turn from "love" to virtual hate at the flick of an invisible switch, could revise events and memories to fit a "black" view of things and be utterly convinced it was truth.

Even though intellectually I now understand that this is a neurological emotional wiring problem, and an ILLNESS, and it makes sense intellectually -- on a heart level, a felt level, it still feels CRAZY and unbelievable and my heart can't really make sense of it. 

I've been struggling with the pain of 1000s of happy memories which flooded and tormented me in the first weeks and which still overwhelm me daily and bring up huge amounts of grief... .because I have all these HAPPY memories -- how could this BE? The loss and disconnect has been SO very very hard. 

One thing I found somewhat helpful... .somewhere on these boards is a tool for dealing with emotional memories. A few days ago, I read this article and I've started to do the following. When a memory of him comes, I mentally try to visualize a tattoo on his forehead that says: ":)isordered thinking" to combat my idealized memories of him as a normal, loving, healthy person. Also, when I have a memory of a happy time we shared, I try to visualize in green letters the words: "Emotional 3-y-o" above the image of that moment... .to remind myself... .yes, it was a happy moment for him... .his 3-y-o was happy, it was all good... .that's why you experienced him as happy and "loving" - this helps me to remember that as far as he was able (with emotional regulation of a 3-y-o) he was "loving" in that moment BUT that it was just a moment-to-moment thing, because things were easy and fun in that moment, the 3-y-o could be happy. This helps me remember how it's possible that he could STOP loving me, even hate me in spite of all those happy times: "Emotional 3-y-o". Although as one friend told me, even some 3 y-os she knows would have more capacity for empathy.

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« Reply #100 on: November 10, 2013, 06:52:56 AM »

Well... .The first time I realized this myth, I realized it was twofold.

We did not only did not share feelings. Worse. His description of my feelings were as irrational as my description of his feelings and that these could not come together.

I used to think he was the sad, troubled guy. He used to think I kept leaving him unless he did his best for me. He did all sorts of things that weren't needed.

Then this happened: I stood in the kitchen, I was doing the dishes. He was sitting on the couch and expected me to watch tv with him. He said "Must you do the dishes now?" and I replied "yes". passive-aggresively.

I knew I should not have said yes the way I said it but it was already too late. He came rushing in the kitchen, opened the drawer, got the big big knife out and I saw it and calmed him down. I reassured that I did not mean anything ugly with that.

(I learned that this was the best way to deal with violence, not to scream and run, but to reassure and sush)

He put the knife back in the drawer and then I thought -time to get the hell out of here- I went to the room where we kept bags and coats, I grabbed my bag. "Are you leaving me?" No no,

I lied. Yes you are leaving me. He screamed. And there was the knife again. "You are leaving me".

As he was blocking my way, I could not get out. I hid in the corner, and put the clothes dryer between us as a shield.

(here it comes)

"Put the knife down. There is nothing wrong, just put the knife down"

":)on't give me that, you're threatening me."

Right! He says I am threatening him, while I am sitting there in the corner, dead frightened, hiding behind the clothes dryer, being chased after with a very, very big knife.

"From where I stand, it looks like you are threatening me... ."

"NO! You are threatening me... .  With leaving".

That is when I knew this would never be right. He is able to reinterpret everything in this world according to the "I am abandoned"-paradigm. Even when it is chrystal clear that it is the other way round. I could never not-abandon him according to his logic. His logic and mine cannot commute.

And then I knew I had to get the hell out and the only way I could do that, was by reassuring him that I would never leave.

So that was what I did. I just said no, let's watch tv for a little bit. And with a racing heart beat I've watched the silliest programme that I would never want to watch. Do you want something to drink? I said, I went to the kitchen again preparing my runawaybag. Then I came back. And as if nothing happened, I said, I had to go to the bathroom. And I left the front door, ran like hell, he came after me, screamed something. I took the first tram to somewhere I did not care. Just away. I think I booked a hotel that night. Oh brother. I am so glad I got out. It was... .It flashed upon me it would always be like this. I could not have ever corrected myself and my fears because what needed correction was not so much my behaviour as his behaviour and his fears and those were not to be fixed.

Life is just so much better now. I can do my things. Live my life. I am so glad we did not have children. That would make fleeing so much more difficult. I strongly respect everyone here and the terrible stories I have heard.
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« Reply #101 on: November 10, 2013, 08:16:04 AM »

Same as all the other posts here, this is really important stuff. When I talk of love when I was with my x I now think, she was afraid of intimacy because I would see the hollow shell inside her. I would see beyond the pantomime act and see the insect heart of her, fake feelings, false persona, others clothes, reflected thoughts, SO interests, pretend friends and vacuous RSs. What was real about them: self medication for their neediness, intense sexual act, brutal drinking till she passed out, self glorification, pitiful victim hood, abuse and control, creating a Frankenstein monster of the people who try to love them, dominating and submitting to their latest amazing victim to be. I feel sorry for them but I feel more sorrow and empathy (BPDs look it up) for the people in their lives they have shattered. At the end I could tell she had been enjoying my torture, like she had won by smashing up the dolls house. The love I felt was maybe the reflected best of me that I had forgotten for a while.
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« Reply #102 on: November 10, 2013, 08:41:51 AM »

perhaps it's providential? i really really really needed to read this right now. i'm coming to the point where i'll have to move forward with the divorce and the fact that she just isn't wired for emotional intercommunication must trump the strong, lingering idea i have that we could still work it out, if we just sat down and talked sincerely and not out of bitterness, and that we could repair the damage we've both done and resume our life if we agreed to be forgiving and generous towards each other. it can't happen.

of all the excellent insights on these pages this one was big with me:

They are so afraid of being abandoned they leave us, they think we hate them if we disagree at all.

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« Reply #103 on: November 10, 2013, 08:57:24 AM »

Maxen,

I truly hope you can work this out. From what I have read if you can get her into therapy long term you may have a shot.
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« Reply #104 on: November 11, 2013, 06:37:13 AM »

thanks for that changingman. of course that's what i'd like to happen but the chances are microscopically slim by now.
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« Reply #105 on: November 15, 2013, 08:52:25 PM »

The undeniable PROOF that my uBPDx did not and DOES NOT feel the same way I feel: the devaluation and discard. That he could do that to someone he has "loved" for 7 years makes it impossible for me to hang on to any belief that he feels the same way I feel. No one with a shred of integrity would treat someone like that. No one who feels the same way I feel would behave this way with someone they barely know, let alone an intimate partner.

Up until that tramautizing shock, I actually believed he DID feel the same way I did, but just had "trouble" expressing it at times. I believed he DID truly love me and care about me, but just "slipped up" sometimes because of his old unconscious patterns. I totally believed he wanted the same things as me: a solid, lasting, rich relationship, personal growth... .and was genuinely willing to work through the challenges.

But the radical about-face in the D & D showed me LOUDER than anything else could that he does NOT feel the same way I feel, and likely never did. Have to keep revisiting the discard and reminding myself that doing this to someone you "love" is showing your cards face-up. No wishful thinking or fantasizing can take away the reality of what he did and what it says about him, his values, and his idea of "love." 

I have no illusions whatsoever about this myth.

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« Reply #106 on: November 17, 2013, 06:02:18 AM »

thanks for that changingman. of course that's what i'd like to happen but the chances are microscopically slim by now.

With this condition they were always slim to none, or they wouldn't have the condition. I'm now starting to get to the sad stage of realising what happens in all her RS's. She seemed so child like and innocent in many ways that I thought the impulsive actions were not meant to harm. Now I think to do these things she must make me first evil, then she can do whatever she desires with no come back, occasional shame and guilt that turns to rage. 'You're not my Dad!'

Good luck with your decision
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« Reply #107 on: November 17, 2013, 06:18:46 AM »

This belief was shattered in round 2 when she got triggered in exactly the time frame i had predicted when i allowed her back in. All her god awful behavior towards me and only me that followed that early April day, was proof cemented into my heart on how foolish i was to ever have thought otherwise.
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Changingman
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« Reply #108 on: November 17, 2013, 07:09:49 AM »

This post probably should read ' Belief that your BPD partner feels, thinks, acts and desires the same as you'

Sad really
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« Reply #109 on: November 17, 2013, 12:18:53 PM »

This post probably should read ' Belief that your BPD partner feels, thinks, acts and desires the same as you'

Sad really

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #110 on: April 19, 2014, 11:38:04 AM »

One of the hardest things for me to deal with in my breakup, was that I have all these strong deep rooted feelings and memories of such intense love and idealization myself that now I am having to cope with the loss of after she has ended her relationship with me, but I already see and know the future on her part as so quickly after our split, I am already anticipating her moving onto the next (I'm tempted to say victim :/) individual just as she did with me in the beginning of our relationship where I truly felt and believed what she told me that I was different and she saw a future with me and did not with the former partner who I guess I sort of "stole her away from". The thing is we met initially through this app that is also a game with a chat platform, and she had disclosed to me in the beginning that she had another relationship that was formed through this app prior to the one right before our relationship, and therefore I know and can see now where this is headed being at least the third link in this possibly infinite chain of intense relationships. And thats what I am going to have to struggle with as part of my detaching, is I am already curious to want to follow her and know if and when she will begin courting someone new (as this breakup is very very fresh so it hasn't happened just yet but I do believe it is imminent), although I know that is playing with fire and only going to hurt and devastate me even further, I feel weak in trying to resist checking, and perhaps there's a bit of comfort so far that there isn't someone new YET, but again, this is literally so recent that I don't doubt it takes more than a week most likely before shes moved on to someone new as if nothing between us ever happened and no memory of our " love" whatsoever. That facet of BPD is probably one of the hardest for me to cope with in detaching. I don't know what difference it has to make to me whether she is grieving and suffering as well, not that I want her to be hurt or sad, certainly not! But purely in grieving process of something so horrible as a breakup, I hurt so so intensely from losing her that I just can't understand how quickly everything can seem erased and she can snap right back and jump from relationship to relationship. I feel to me in a sense that our entire relationship and what I believed was true love is negated in a sense by this.
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