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Topic: People pleasing/control/BPD (Read 2207 times)
Clearmind
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People pleasing/control/BPD
«
on:
August 15, 2011, 01:01:50 AM »
As many of you know who have read my posts he is certainly not innocent – I am just explaining one particular trait (people pleasing) of his here.
The BPDexBF was a quiet/waif. Rarely raged however his words were so stern they scared the crap out of me. He was an incessant people pleaser - to an
extreme
.
He helped around the house in
EVERY
aspect – cleaning, cooking, putting the washing on the line, extremely gracious host etc etc. Short of washing my own hair, he ‘helped’ with everything - day in and day out. Anyone would think that this is an ideal partner – right?
He often asked me – “If there is something I am not doing, that you want me to do, please just tell me”. Strangely I would but he would act like a scared little abused boy. In healthy development we have a huge sense of pleasure in pleasing others and receiving. But I feel like his people pleasing were for his ‘gain’ and really had nothing to do with me.
So all this people pleasing
– is he just wearing a mask of niceness to eventually steal energy from the world (and me) to feel better?
- to feel useful so I won’t abandon him?
- clobber me with it later “I always helped you out” etc
The RS was 14 months and I dont think he could act any longer - His people pleasing ways went down the loo towards the end of the RS.
I would love any insight into this.
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2010
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #1 on:
August 15, 2011, 02:08:37 AM »
Excerpt
His people pleasing ways went down the loo towards the end of the RS.
By then you had become a series of distorted perceptions that involved slavery. Not your fault.
Excerpt
He often asked me – “If there is something I am not doing, that you want me to do, please just tell me”. Strangely I would but he would act like a scared little abused boy.
Borderline perceptions are arrested at the "determination of free will" stage in childhood. Autonomy and independence were never achieved as a child and therefore the lack of development causes allot of anxiety to the Borderline adult. This is why "waif" Borderlines cling to and then eventually hate those that support them.
Excerpt
But I feel like his people pleasing were for his ‘gain’ and really had nothing to do with me.
The compulsion for a waif is to serve another person and attach to them for survival. When this servitude is praised, the Borderline feels somewhat conflicted, as the feel good quality of pleasing the other person soon turns into a distorted perception of captivity and bondage. The partner then becomes a lightning rod for the intra-psychic scapegoating that lives within their mind. Scapegoating and blame are projected at the partner. Again, this isn't your fault.
Borderline waifs will attach to those they perceive to be dominant, (most of the time that is a conscientious and caring partner who rescues them.) The Borderline then cries foul when their submissiveness becomes so extreme (at the hand of their own doing) and the equality in the relationship is so askew that it gives the partner an appearance of a taskmaster and the Borderline a reasonable out based on their inner persecutorial ideas of reference.
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Clearmind
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #2 on:
August 15, 2011, 03:47:59 AM »
2010 you described that awesomely. Light bulb moment. The attachment is self serving. The people pleasing to praise to the feeling of captivity cycle was endless which is the reason why I became so exhausted. I would always see the positive side to everything. So if he had a down moment because he thought he had failed at something, I tried to get him to see the positiveness in it - I would often say "you only fail if you don't give it a try, and you really tried". He hated me for that because I was not sympathizing or excepting his projection - I was in fact deflecting it back at him - big no no for someone with BPD.
So they feel trapped? Self fulfilling prophecy? Felt like he needed a constant source of praise - any downtime on my part would then send him into despair. His lifeblood was cut.
I would classify myself as the dominant one in the rs. I was together, financially secure, great family and have gorgeous friends. He tried to undermine it all to bring me down a few runs on the ladder - stoop to his level. I am assuming he hoped this would result in an increased reliance of him for survival, feed him praise, and making sure I don't take my eye off the ball.
Interestingly the one thing he blamed me for in the end was that I was too successful and that he felt beneath me. I think he knew his projecting/dissonance was wearing thin. I don't have great personal boundaries but I am starting think they are not as bad as I think - I did bail.
I think he does hate me. This is a hard pill to swallow given what I gave. Again not my fault... .thanks heaps 2010. I have been raking my brain for 3 months trying to comprehend that.
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octopus
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #3 on:
August 15, 2011, 05:20:19 AM »
2010 - sorry to derail - but what are your words of wisdom about the 'witch' BPD?
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Sofie
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #4 on:
August 15, 2011, 05:22:59 AM »
Quote from: 2010 on August 15, 2011, 02:08:37 AM
Excerpt
His people pleasing ways went down the loo towards the end of the RS.
Excerpt
But I feel like his people pleasing were for his ‘gain’ and really had nothing to do with me.
The compulsion for a waif is to serve another person and attach to them for survival. When this servitude is praised, the Borderline feels somewhat conflicted, as the feel good quality of pleasing the other person soon turns into a distorted perception of captivity and bondage. The partner then becomes a lightning rod for the intra-psychic scapegoating that lives within their mind. Scapegoating and blame are projected at the partner. Again, this isn't your fault.
Borderline waifs will attach to those they perceive to be dominant, (most of the time that is a conscientious and caring partner who rescues them.) The Borderline then cries foul when their submissiveness becomes so extreme (at the hand of their own doing) and the equality in the relationship is so askew that it gives the partner an appearance of a taskmaster and the Borderline a reasonable out based on their inner persecutorial ideas of reference.
Very well phrased. My relationship with my ex - a non-raging, non-verbally abusive, but extremely passive aggressive waif - was all about this.
In the beginning of our relationship, she was, as you describe, Clearmind, very keen on pleasing me, helping me out with whatever I needed - or, more often, what she imagined I needed.
While I initially thought this to be a genuine expression of care and sympathy, I quickly discovered it was an attempt to enter into a bargain situation with me, which - in her mind - basically revolved around, "I do X and X and X for you, so therefore you are to love me unconditionally, stay with me forever and take care of me in whichever way I want without question."
Of course, a "normal" relationship is also about giving and taking, but this was - I felt - much more calculated and without real empathy - a matter of "survival attachment" exactly. It gets me thinking about the Stockholm syndrome, actually, and how that can tie into BPD, especially in the case of BPDers who have been abused.
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Willy
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #5 on:
August 15, 2011, 05:53:08 AM »
Quote from: Sofie on August 15, 2011, 05:22:59 AM
My relationship with my ex - a non-raging, non-verbally abusive, but extremely passive aggressive waif - was all about this.
Same here. She pretended to be a people pleaser. The first two times I visited her home she made me sandwitches/diner, after that one time coffee, afterwards she always asked me to bring something when I visited her.
She could be very submissive, like hanging her head low and talk softly with puppy eyes. Her anger she took out in a very passive aggresive way with always plausible denial.
Later she changed from a waif to a siren. She must have found out the waif was not working anymore.
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Sofie
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #6 on:
August 15, 2011, 06:04:11 AM »
Quote from: Willy on August 15, 2011, 05:53:08 AM
Same here. She pretended to be a people pleaser. The first two times I visited her home she made me sandwitches/diner, after that one time coffee, afterwards she always asked me to bring something when I visited her.
Ha! I never thought about this, but it's SO true! When my ex was "courting" me, she would have bought me, for instance, any drink I'd casually mentioned liking, whenever I came to visit and cook great meals for me carefully avoiding any food product she knew I was allergic to.
Six months later I had to get myself a glass of water from the tap, when I was visiting her, if I wanted something to drink and she could not care less if I was allergic to any of the food she half-heartedly made.
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used_up
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #7 on:
August 15, 2011, 07:10:54 AM »
Quote from: Willy on August 15, 2011, 05:53:08 AM
Quote from: Sofie on August 15, 2011, 05:22:59 AM
My relationship with my ex - a non-raging, non-verbally abusive, but extremely passive aggressive waif - was all about this.
Same here. She pretended to be a people pleaser. The first two times I visited her home she made me sandwitches/diner, after that one time coffee, afterwards she always asked me to bring something when I visited her.
She could be very submissive, like hanging her head low and talk softly with puppy eyes. Her anger she took out in a very passive aggresive way with always plausible denial.
Later she changed from a waif to a siren. She must have found out the waif was not working anymore.
An almost identical experience here. Very submissive when she wanted something but would throw a tantrum when it didn't work and if that failed, an aggressive, belittling, verbal assault.
During the clingy phase, she would cook great meals, make sure I was OK and generally try to please me in all areas. I was doing the same for her, then as soon as I mentioned those three little words, about 3 months into the relationship, BAM! Switc, all bets were off. She had this sense of entitlement to everything, for me to do everything for her, solve her problems, look after her, pander to her needs etc. etc. with every psychological trick in the book being used to try to make me do what she wanted and follow her script.
Fast forward another month and she rarely bothered to do anything (I was the drinks waiter if we were at hers or mine) and if she cooked, it was the cheapest food she could find that took the least effort to make and was generally made badly. We ended up getting take-out, a lot, during the last 2-3 months of the relationship.
I was prepared to give more than I received due to family and work stress that she said she was under at the time (no proof) but everything became very conditional and very one-way, to the point she even said that if I did what she needed, she'd then do something for me. Err, no, that's not how an adult relationship should work and it certainly shouldn't be me giving 8/10 times and only getting a token crumb to keep me interested when she thought I might leave. The pleasing person was just an act and the glimpses I saw from time-to-time was purely a way to attempt to control a situation.
Very much a people pleaser outside of the relationship (again, not a lot of proof) but I always viewed that as a way for her to be the person she wants to be, that she can't be, within a relationship, very adult, very capable and the centre of attention by pleasing others and/or helping them in some way. She has a repertoire of lies and omissions to maintain that helpful, people pleaser façade with so many people but it's easy to act for acquaintances. Not a happy life for her.
I think back and realise that I just fought her need to control everything and fought her trying to get me to give and not receive, for about 7 months in a row. Not good times.
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Sofie
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #8 on:
August 15, 2011, 07:45:02 AM »
Quote from: used_up on August 15, 2011, 07:10:54 AM
An almost identical experience here. Very submissive when she wanted something but would throw a tantrum when it didn't work and if that failed, an aggressive, belittling, verbal assault.
I've always wondered... .how much of this waif-type behaviour is conscious?
I may be kidding myself, but to this day I believe that my ex entered into a relationship with me believing that she loved me and that we were meant to be. I don't think she thought, "Ha, I'll snare Sofie into a relationship with being all sweet and perfect, and THEN, when I've got her, I'll show her my true clingy and needy face!"
I always felt that my ex's behaviour was unconscious in the sense that it stemmed from her having an immature and unrealistic need to and belief in that she could and should be "re-parented" by me, and that this was what she genuinely equated with receiving love. I think that she wanted me and expected me to be the unconditionally loving mommy she never had, and when I failed to be that - as every person would - she honestly felt disappointed with me. Her problem, I think, was that she expected a type of love no one will ever receive after infancy. She wanted to be a baby with no need to reciprocate anything due to "mother" loving her regardless solely because she exists.
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Willy
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #9 on:
August 15, 2011, 07:57:48 AM »
Quote from: Sofie on August 15, 2011, 07:45:02 AM
I've always wondered... .how much of this waif-type behaviour is conscious?
I donot think it is that conscious. Its a learnt attitude since childhood. Its more of a survival instinct IMO.
Quote from: Sofie on August 15, 2011, 07:45:02 AM
I always felt that my ex's behaviour was unconscious in the sense that it stemmed from her having an immature and unrealistic need to and belief in that she could and should be "re-parented" by me, and that this was what she genuinely equated with receiving love.
Absolutely.
Quote from: Sofie on August 15, 2011, 07:45:02 AM
I think that she wanted me and expected me to be the unconditionally loving mommy she never had, and when I failed to be that - as every person would - she honestly felt disappointed with me.
I noticed a great deal of (passive aggresive) resistance when I asked something of her. Even with the simpliest things. When I started to ask for emotional support things went worse. This is not what parents do. A parent should love the child unconditionally and shouldn’t ask for things in return. I see now what a great disappointment it must have been for her that I asked for emotional support at times.
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Sofie
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #10 on:
August 15, 2011, 08:21:29 AM »
Quote from: Willy on August 15, 2011, 07:57:48 AM
I noticed a great deal of (passive aggresive) resistance when I asked something of her. Even with the simpliest things. When I started to ask for emotional support things went worse. This is not what parents do. A parent should love the child unconditionally and shouldn’t ask for things in return. I see now what a great disappointment it must have been for her that I asked for emotional support at times.
Exactly. I often think that this is where so much of our frustration with our BPDers stem from: We think they are adults and therefore expect adult behaviour, but in reality they have only grown up physically.
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Willy
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #11 on:
August 15, 2011, 08:45:51 AM »
Quote from: Sofie on August 15, 2011, 08:21:29 AM
Exactly. I often think that this is where so much of our frustration with our BPDers stem from: We think they are adults and therefore expect adult behaviour, but in reality they have only grown up physically.
Not only physically, but also intellectually in many cases.
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Sofie
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #12 on:
August 15, 2011, 08:49:27 AM »
Quote from: Willy on August 15, 2011, 08:45:51 AM
Quote from: Sofie on August 15, 2011, 08:21:29 AM
Exactly. I often think that this is where so much of our frustration with our BPDers stem from: We think they are adults and therefore expect adult behaviour, but in reality they have only grown up physically.
Not only physically, but also intellectually in many cases.
Indeed, indeed. My ex is extremely intelligent, which - when you think about it - only makes it sadder that she is emotionally caught in childhood.
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used_up
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #13 on:
August 15, 2011, 10:04:37 AM »
It's a control thing. My experience was if the child isn't seen as wonderful in the eyes of the adult (me) because the child can't satisfy the adult's needs (the adult needs and desires an adult-adult relationship) then the child sees themselves as a failure and tries to get the adult 'back on script' by attempting to control them. If this fails, because they can't truly give the adult what they need, then they try every (psychological) trick in the book (learned behaviour, the place where they are 'stuck', emotionally) and you either fight it, setting boundaries or telling them off, or cave in to the child's demands and stay on script.
The trouble I had was that although we could play as child-child, which we both enjoyed, whenever it came to adult-adult and I actually needed the same support, love and care that I was giving her, she couldn't handle the intimacy nor that next stage of a 'normal' relationship where you really connect with someone and really find out if you love each other and can care for each other. In essence, her fantasy gave way to reality and she couldn't cope with it.
I was shown no adult care and love when it would have been obvious to an adult that the odd word here or there was needed i.e. true empathy at play. Anything she did say lacked any emotion, they were just the words you say at this point. On the flip-side, I was meant to intuit her moods and needs, like a mother (back to adult-child) again and she'd either play victim or aggressor if I failed to read her mind, again, trying to get me back on script. When I repeatedly showed her how much I cared, she'd conveniently forget it, so she could instigate a fight later on
People pleasing on one level, as a child tries to please their parent is one thing, actually being able to commit to an adult relationship seems to be what my exUBPDgf was incapable of doing, it just isn't 'there' emotionally, despite her being 'there' in other ways. She isn't massively intelligent, just very driven and determined, which counts for a lot. This drive coupled with a child/teenage like cunning a guile (and the odd 100 or so lies), and additionally, a lack of true empathy and care, has gotten her this far in life but she isn't happy and she just gets to exactly the same point in every relationship and can't get any further when the emotional passion of the clingy stage goes and she had to enter the next phase.
That she will likely never experience anything beyond love = need is the sad part but her BPD in no way justifies her cruelty and throw-away attitude to people, friends or otherwise. She was quite capable of 'behaving' when she felt she had something to gain from it, possibly much in the same way she would be the people pleaser, as the gain was probably that she felt useful, needed and important, a temporary reprieve from the turmoil of beating herself up every day and not being 'good enough', at a guess.
Only a will to change and a damn good therapist will give her the chance of experiencing a better life. How easy is that for us to say, how hard, clearly, for most BPD people to do, even if they do have the full support of a SO.
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Sofie
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #14 on:
August 15, 2011, 03:44:30 PM »
Quote from: used_up on August 15, 2011, 10:04:37 AM
I was shown no adult care and love when it would have been obvious to an adult that the odd word here or there was needed i.e. true empathy at play. Anything she did say lacked any emotion, they were just the words you say at this point.
I know what you mean. I remember often having the feeling that my ex was a human tape recorder in that she so often just echoed my words when I signalled that I needed "adult" care and empathy. If, for instance, I said, "If feel sad that my mother and I have such a bad relationship", she'd say "I can understand that you feel sad because your mother and you have such a bad relationship." If I said, "I am worried about the meeting with X tomorrow, because I don't really feel prepared", she'd say, "I can understand that you're worried about the meeting with X tomorrow, because you feel that you're not really prepared."
Even in the midst of my FOG, it struck me as eerie - her responses so mechanical, no real response of her own, just a slight rephrasing of whatever I'd said. I think she wanted - genuinely - to give me the care that I needed at those times, but that she was at a loss as to how to do this due to lacking the empathy needed to express genuine care.
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Ace
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #15 on:
August 16, 2011, 09:44:40 AM »
For me, my wife is a people pleaser in the beginning, but that soon ends. At some point she feels her good deeds are not being recipricated (even if they are) or that the person doesn't deserve to be treated nice. The good deeds for her becomes the status symbol of her martyrdom. "I do everything around here."
The fact is she would complain about my lack of doing things that I would do more than fair. Then she would feel guilty about the amount of work I was doing and her lack of ability to complain about it, so she would criticise the WAY I did things and then do them herself.
The idealization phase was huge for people pleasing in my wife. With newly met people she will be extra nice and do way more than she should, overextending herself. But over time she will complain about how much she has done for them.
Victim.
I think the control goes without saying. What I find ironic is the fact that my wife will label me as controlling, yet she controls everything. From how the kids are raised to how the laundry is done to what we use for cleaning products, to what we did as a couple. Of course she was never interested in doing things I was interested in. The fact is even if she did, she would complain about it.
But in the beginning... .she would be very interested in what I was interested in.
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Clearmind
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #16 on:
October 21, 2011, 08:26:49 PM »
Taking the liberty of bumping this up ~ for two reasons
- 2010's insight into people pleasing and Borderlines was a light bulb moment for me ~ I turned a corner reading it ~ hopefully you will too; and
- there are a few newbies on the leaving/detaching board that had a waif (as mine was) and little is known about their behaviour style.
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redberry
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #17 on:
October 21, 2011, 08:47:21 PM »
Thanks, clear. I just reread this post. There's a lot of wisdom. And welcome to the newbies out there who have been dealing with a waif. I have, too, and I feel your pain! Here's to a new beginning and a path to healing.
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shaakey
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #18 on:
October 21, 2011, 11:07:37 PM »
Mine seemed to do a number of "services" in the place of intimacy. For instance when I was sick she would make cups of tea and vitamins etc., but would essentially abandon me in every other regard. If I pressed her as to why she all of a sudden would not keep me company, she would find some way to start a fight and leave. After the first 6 months sex was also a service where she was either porn star but vacant or just laying there.
Everything was on the menu except intimacy.
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justMehere
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #19 on:
October 22, 2011, 08:29:56 AM »
Ex uBPD bf was an absolute dream in this regard. He spent so much time and energy doing things for me and my kids, building, fixing, running errands, always eager to help or do something for us.
he was being genuine in his way. He loved to do things for me. BUT the underlying reason was to please me, and don't we all try to please someone we are in a r/s with, but it was over the top. It really did make me feel loved and secure, which made him work even harder because when I was happy and felt loved, he felt secure.
he told me he wanted to "take care of" me. Well, he did to the point that I became dependent on the security that brought.
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krax
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
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Reply #20 on:
October 22, 2011, 08:44:07 AM »
Quote from: Clearmind on October 21, 2011, 08:26:49 PM
Taking the liberty of bumping this up ~ for two reasons
- 2010's insight into people pleasing and Borderlines was a light bulb moment for me ~ I turned a corner reading it ~ hopefully you will too; and
- there are a few newbies on the leaving/detaching board that had a waif (as mine was) and little is known about their behaviour style.
Seriously... .Thank you soo much for bumping this, your situation was almost identical to mine, mine was also the waif-type, a people-pleaser. She felt so bad when she suspected that people thought badly of her. She usually almost started to cry and was depressed if she thought someone didn´t like her, to the point where I always had to comfort her somehow. But never got as much as a thanks for being there when she needed me. Oh well.
And thanks alot to 2010 aswell, really good explanation.
Excerpt
the Borderline feels somewhat conflicted, as the feel good quality of pleasing the other person soon turns into a distorted perception of captivity and bondage.
Especially this part.
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newworld
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #21 on:
October 22, 2011, 08:58:13 AM »
Quote from: Clearmind on August 15, 2011, 01:01:50 AM
he would act like a scared little abused boy.
But I feel like his people pleasing were for his ‘gain’ and really had nothing to do with me.
I think you said it here.
My recent relationship was with a man who said "all the right things", meaning he was charming and polite and would engage with people in ways he new (he said so) made things worse in the end because they were dishonest.
He would for example not want to be with me and ask me to walk to the burger joint because he would "feel rude" not asking me. meanwhile he would treat me like garbage by being passive aggressive if I did say 'yes" to the invitation!
I told him to stop asking me to be around him at all if he did not want it. I didn't want to be around someone who was not in the mood for my company and I didn't think it rude for him to want space.
he didn't stop doing it.
He carried the relationship on for two months after that, alternately ignoring me and then coming around to act in passive aggressive ways. He said he felt "guilty" for "not giving me what I want" ? ? ? (he never asked me what I wanted, despite my telling him clearly that it was for him to go take his space) he was afraid to be yelled at or accused (because 'other women he dated" used to accuse him and get angry with him and "say things weren't a problem, but then they were"... .
... .what a mess of a man... .
he was a pleaser to keep the peace. Unfortunately, this was a very foolish thing to do and wound up being very hurtful.
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ViciousCycle
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #22 on:
October 22, 2011, 09:00:15 AM »
Quote from: 2010 on August 15, 2011, 02:08:37 AM
Excerpt
His people pleasing ways went down the loo towards the end of the RS.
By then you had become a series of distorted perceptions that involved slavery. Not your fault.
Excerpt
He often asked me – “If there is something I am not doing, that you want me to do, please just tell me”. Strangely I would but he would act like a scared little abused boy.
Borderline perceptions are arrested at the "determination of free will" stage in childhood. Autonomy and independence were never achieved as a child and therefore the lack of development causes allot of anxiety to the Borderline adult. This is why "waif" Borderlines cling to and then eventually hate those that support them.
Excerpt
But I feel like his people pleasing were for his ‘gain’ and really had nothing to do with me.
The compulsion for a waif is to serve another person and attach to them for survival. When this servitude is praised, the Borderline feels somewhat conflicted, as the feel good quality of pleasing the other person soon turns into a distorted perception of captivity and bondage. The partner then becomes a lightning rod for the intra-psychic scapegoating that lives within their mind. Scapegoating and blame are projected at the partner. Again, this isn't your fault.
Borderline waifs will attach to those they perceive to be dominant, (most of the time that is a conscientious and caring partner who rescues them.) The Borderline then cries foul when their submissiveness becomes so extreme (at the hand of their own doing) and the equality in the relationship is so askew that it gives the partner an appearance of a taskmaster and the Borderline a reasonable out based on their inner persecutorial ideas of reference.
You just explained my relationship with my Waif in a nutshell.
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MaybeSo
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #23 on:
October 22, 2011, 09:55:43 AM »
Doesnt this people pleasing dynamic sound a lot like classic codependent behavior?
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krax
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
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Reply #24 on:
October 22, 2011, 10:11:45 AM »
Quote from: MaybeSo on October 22, 2011, 09:55:43 AM
Doesnt this people pleasing dynamic sound a lot like classic codependent behavior?
I don´t think it have to be like this necessarily, sure alot of the BPD types probably doesn´t care at all about their surroundings. My exBPDgf was the typical wife-type, and what I can recall of reading here alot of other people who´ve been involved with waif´s have been in a similair position, they don´t really act like they care about what other people think of them and they sure as hell can talk down on other people when noone´s around to blame them. But when they´re in a vulnurable position they seem to (atleast mine) really care of how they are seen by the rest of the world. I guess it´s the lack of self-confidence that come in to play here.
I on the other hand, are codependent, I´ve truely realized this the past month and im going to do my best to deal with it. But I´ve never cared about what people I don´t care about think of me, more like the opposite. I sometimes get a confidence boost of hearing that some people don´t like me. It just means that Im not bland guy that wants people to like me just for the sake of it, but that I have a personality, which im proud of. But then again, if I would to discover that my friends or other people I care about don´t like me for me I would probably be sad... .But who wouldn´t?
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newworld
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
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Reply #25 on:
October 22, 2011, 10:33:10 AM »
Quote from: MaybeSo on October 22, 2011, 09:55:43 AM
Doesnt this people pleasing dynamic sound a lot like classic codependent behavior?
That's exactly what it is... .we are fooling ourselves into believing there is an "us" and 'them"... .it's a spectrum.
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gettingoverit
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
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Reply #26 on:
October 22, 2011, 10:49:17 AM »
Quote from: Ace on August 16, 2011, 09:44:40 AM
What I find ironic is the fact that my wife will label me as controlling, yet she controls everything. From how the kids are raised to how the laundry is done to what we use for cleaning products, to what we did as a couple.
I find this comment very interesting, because this too was how my ex waif was as well. She accused me of being controlling, but controlled everything in the house. How the dishes were done, how the laundry was done, how the house was cleaned, the cleaning products we used, where all the house hold goods were stored etc. I really don't care that much about that stuff, so I let her do whatever made her happy. She didn't mind going out and doing things I wanted to do as a couple, but even if she did not want to, she would never tell me. She would never say what she did or didn't want... .I had to read her mind. Only after some serious prying did she finally tell me what she wanted.
At the beginning of our relationship my ex went above and beyond the call of duty. She could anticipate my needs and meet them with accuracy. The stuff she did for me at the beginning was sometimes too much... .it made me uncomfortable because I felt bad that she would go out of her way to do something for me. And to be honest, there was no way I could ever reciprocate some of the things she did for me... .I mean this girl was a mind reader! I think a lot of her behaviours were about control. She had to control her environment, and if she couldn't there was hell to pay. For the most part I let her control the house, but when it came to needing something emotional from her, she just could not give it. A wise friend of mine once told me "She can't give you what she doesn't have to give". I think that sums up my ex in a nutshell.
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gettingoverit
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
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Reply #27 on:
October 22, 2011, 11:08:25 AM »
Quote from: Ace on August 16, 2011, 09:44:40 AM
The good deeds for her becomes the status symbol of her martyrdom. "I do everything around here."
The fact is she would complain about my lack of doing things that I would do more than fair. Then she would feel guilty about the amount of work I was doing and her lack of ability to complain about it, so she would criticise the WAY I did things and then do them herself.
OMG! This is exactly what happened in our household. Everything had to be done a certain way, and if it was not done to her satisfaction, she would b*tch and moan about it and do it herself. I don't know how many times I would try to tell her their where many ways of doing the same thing, her response was always... "if you are going to do a job, you should do it right". Right of course meaning her way or no way. It just got to the point where I got sick and tired of doing things around the house just so that she could come after me and do it again. That really can take the wind out of your sails. Her subtle way of saying "it's not good enough for me". So I stopped doing things in the house, and only did the things outside of the house. I remember once asking her mother if she had always been like this, and I gave her an example of the fact that my ex would rather wash the dishes by hand at 11pm at night exhausted than just put them in the dishwasher because she feels the dishes don't come out as clean as she likes them (control). Her mother then asked me why I did not help and do the dishes, when I told her that when I did them it was never good enough for her and she would complain and do them again anyway her mom said "Then let her do them, if she wants to be that ridiculous and stay up until 11:30pm doing the dishes when there are others that are willing to help, or there is a dishwasher right beside her, then that's her prerogative." Truer words were never spoken.
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Clearmind
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
«
Reply #28 on:
October 22, 2011, 03:48:00 PM »
Quote from: MaybeSo on October 22, 2011, 09:55:43 AM
Doesnt this people pleasing dynamic sound a lot like classic codependent behavior?
MaybeSo ~ I agree to an extent. I also people please and I am not totally 100% co-dependent. When I people please its for a different reason ~ I don't expect anything in return and I don't use it to control and I don't pull the passive aggressive stance to shift the power back.
The difference being with a Borderline, as 2010 alluded to ~ people pleasing is a double edged sword ~ they please, the power shifts to us and Borderlines demonise, devalue or push us away to shift the power back to them.
People pleasing aims to help them attach to us ~ its one of their many pulls and its self serving rather than them being 'loving'.
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trellabor
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Re: People pleasing/control/BPD
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Reply #29 on:
October 22, 2011, 04:55:46 PM »
Interesting. My exBPDgf would always mention how she wanted to be 'taken care of' but it was strange that it was never really that 'specific' in the meaning. When she was sick, I took care of her - made sure she was comfy, had the TV on whatever she wanted to watch, got whatever she wanted to eat/drink, took her temperature etc. When it was I who was sick, or needed emotional support it was as though I was asking for her right arm. Even when she passed out in the shower after we made love and came to very pale and unable to make a coherent sentence for a few minutes, she insisted I go to her doctor with her which I did and explain what happened. Seems she just hadn't eaten very well or drank any water that day(she had this habit of drinking a HUGE 1 liter bottle of water a day and carted it around with her. There were these bottles all over the house). However that wasn't a 'good enough' explanation for her as something had to be 'wrong with her'. This continued to develop into a story about how she had 'abnormal cells' inside her and there was always an appointment to get it checked out which never seemed to materialize. She used this excuse again when I left and quickly abandoned it with hate words and accusations when it didn't convince me to stay.
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