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Author Topic: I'm Convinced the New Relationship is Perfect  (Read 4182 times)
Gaslit
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« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2012, 05:48:57 PM »

Excerpt
Do you think it's possible for the new non, either because he's calm or totally detached, to withstand the abuse?  Or maybe with the new relationship, it's possible for the BP to reduce the viciousness of her abuse?

I think it's entirely possible for you/me to start thinking about ourselves. First, who wants abuse? No matter what the non's demeanor is? Second, as someone said before, they will 'cycle' with us and without and no matter what we or anyone else does. They cycled long before we knew them and will cycle long after we forget them.

It's 2012. It's "me" time. Don't ya think?
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slvr6543
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« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2012, 05:50:53 PM »

If you have learned anything on this site it would be that. THERE IS NO CHANCE OF THAT RELATIONSHIP WORKING. The same stages are going to happen. All 3 stages are going to come out. R EMBER, its all about them. You can change the partner but not the illness. She will act the same with whoever it is. Time is whats in question. Its not "IS IT GOING TO HAPPEN". Its when.

The new guy if not flawed (like we are to some degree) he will dump her in a new york second after the honeymoon stage. Normal people do not fall for these sick people. There is something in all of us that seen the flags and chose to ignore them. Healthy people don't do this. Thats why they look for easy targets. My ex took 5 steps down from me and she could have landed anybodie she wanted.
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MaybeSo
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« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2012, 05:56:55 PM »

She is who she is.

She is not going to change.

You  cannot change her.

He cannot change her.

Meds do not cure BPD.

There is no magic pill, you cannot think your way out of this or bargain your way out of this.

Tolerating abuse just makes the pwBPD even more disordered while consequently causing the partner to get more worn down and sick, too... .so that together they end up making a perfectly disordered unit.  This is not something to aspire to.

The only one you can change is yourself.  
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MarshaDole
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« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2012, 06:22:13 PM »

In my own case, my BPDexBF has returned to an ex with whom he had spend many years

in a very dysfunctional situation, most likely BPD (him) vs. NPD or even BPD/NPD (her).

He has run into me a few times at work and he tells me she is "walking on eggshells" (his words)

not to upset him. This has been going on for several months now, and my guess is that the inevitable

cracks of devaluation would start appearing right around now.

Well, the very last time I ran into him, they had had a daylong spat because, without his permission, she had  sifted through the boxes I shipped back to him instead of letting him do it himself. She told him she was "only trying to help" but he was outraged that she would "violate his privacy."

My response to all this was to simply say, "Excuse me, but I have work to do now. Have a nice day."

I even said it with a smile, and not sarcastically. And with that, I got in my car and drove away.

My question to the board is: Does the usual idealization/devaluation/breakup cycle happen even when people have been through cycles before? Do they learn anything from the cycles? Just curious... .and in case you're curious where I'm coming from, no, I will not take him back. I'm already seeing someone else now. It probably won't become a serious relationship, but I'm simply enjoying going to a movie and out to dinner without all the chaos of this horrific thing I just went through six months ago or so. I don't want that chaos back. But I am curious what will happen in terms of the recycle he's trying to stick with after about four months now.

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Gaslit
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« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2012, 06:30:55 PM »

Excerpt
My question to the board is: Does the usual idealization/devaluation/breakup cycle happen even when people have been through cycles before?

Yes, only faster then the very first time, regardless of the time apart.

Excerpt
Do they learn anything from the cycles?

If they are not in some pretty intense therapy, then Nada, Zilch, Zero!
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« Reply #35 on: January 16, 2012, 06:33:55 PM »

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And now, I know when she texts me and I respond, she will only ignore my text response so there is no reason for me to reply any more.

This ignoring my messages when I respond to something she sent me first is something I will never understand.

Okay, WOW! This same exact thing happens to me.

Ok a little update on this portion of our discussion... I spoke to a non-BPD female who told me that this is actually very common behavior among women, especially younger ones.  My BP ex is 25 now, and 23 when we started dating.  So maybe this can be chalked up to immaturity and/or youth.  In my opinion, only extremely immature and/or mentally ill people would play these sorts of games, but according to this friend of mine she says that "normal" women do this all the time, sometimes to anger her boyfriend, and sometimes just to feed her own ego by showing herself how much power she can have over a guy.  So whether we can attribute this feature as a borderline-only trait is questionable.  However, I still think it's sick.  If anyone else has further insight into this particular type of behavior, ie getting a call/text from your BP ex, responding back, and then being ignored, please fill us in we'd love to hear it!

I don't think that is just a girl thing.  Guys do it too.  My exBPDbf does it all the time.  I think it is to make you wonder if they are upset... .and in turn upset you.  I think I am supposed to "text-beg" him to respond... .I don't.
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MaybeSo
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« Reply #36 on: January 16, 2012, 06:43:29 PM »

Excerpt
My question to the board is: Does the usual idealization/devaluation/breakup cycle happen even when people have been through cycles before? Do they learn anything from the cycles? Just curious

Yes, the same cycle happens over and over and over and over again.  A factor in diagnosing personality disorders in general is the tendancy to not 'learn' from past experience or past behavior and then apply what was learned... .but instead to keep doing the same thing over and over and over and over again... .with possible variations on the theme/flavor... .but it's the same dance over and over again.

My ex has done this cycle for five years with me now.  Five years, probably 20 idealizations/devaluations in all.

I can tell I'm 'white' again right now.  I am not participating so it's neither here nor there... .but I'm white again.  In the past this for me was like 'joy... .rapture'... .now it's just a sad sign of the same old disorder.   Last June I was quickly painted black and kicked out of my own home.  Today he is sending nice notes and being incredibly solicitous.  

Same thing, different day.  It's a disorder.

At this point it's sad and boring and so so  tired... .we have so done this... .but for him it's like something new is happening. Nothing new is happening.  I assure you.  It's the same old thing.   His brain works differently than mine.  No harm, no foul... .I don't take it personally anymore... .and I just don't participate anymore.  
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« Reply #37 on: January 16, 2012, 06:58:48 PM »

Excerpt
I don't think that is just a girl thing.  Guys do it too.  My exBPDbf does it all the time.  I think it is to make you wonder if they are upset... .and in turn upset you.  I think I am supposed to "text-beg" him to respond... .I don't.

Yep. This:

"As part of this "control" technique, the abuser may "set up" his/her partner, pushing as many buttons as possible to get the partner to lose control.

It's part of what is called "projective identification." If the BPD is being very abusive (that's what they learned by being abused and they believe that everyone close to them will treat them that way) and you start feeling angry (a normal response to being abused) then the BPD can then "feel" angry because you (in their thoughts) are angry at them. Since you started it, then it's okay if they are abusive or angry back at you."

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slvr6543
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« Reply #38 on: January 16, 2012, 07:21:18 PM »

My ex just turned 29 last month. She has already been married twice and has 2 children from 2 different men. She wanted to marry me in the first year and have a child. She has now been with the new guy a little over 3.5 months and is prego yet again and getting married.

This cycle NEVER stops. The one thing I NEVER hear on this site is how a PBD person got out of a relationship and stayed single. They need to be with someone all the time to mirror their pain on to. THE NEW GUY/GIRL is doomed as we were.
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« Reply #39 on: January 16, 2012, 07:25:38 PM »

additional: Although they are incapable of real love there is no way in Heaven they can fall in love with the next guy when they just got out of a relationship, that they said soo many times that they loved us and mysteriously fall in love with the new guy. Its all crap and the next moron will experience the same fate. Stop worrying about them and turn that attention to yourself. You will see in time its doomed.
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« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2012, 09:39:52 PM »

I was an angle to my stbx BPD wife when we met. People remarked that I will not be able to handle her emotional upheavals but I knew better. I was one of the most placid and stable guys in the world, I would resque her from all her pain and abuse. She absolutely adored me and I thought she was the most wonderful thing since sliced bread. Once she got me hooked she started plucking my angel wings and turned into a self centered angry abusive narcisist.

In the end she grabbed everything that she could lay her hands on, ran me out of my own house and instantly fell in love with my replacement. Their relationship was perfect. He made her laugh she said. Five months later he was history.

They never change. Stop fretting over trash. Do nc because it is going to help you immensely in recovering. I can assure you that interacting with normal people is like breathing clean air after having been trapped in a sunken submarine. You manage to escape. You can breath again. Why are you wondering if it's better to be trapped with a deeply disfunctional person?
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« Reply #41 on: January 17, 2012, 06:51:32 AM »

additional: Although they are incapable of real love there is no way in Heaven they can fall in love with the next guy when they just got out of a relationship, that they said soo many times that they loved us and mysteriously fall in love with the new guy. Its all crap and the next moron will experience the same fate. Stop worrying about them and turn that attention to yourself. You will see in time its doomed.

Because they are in pain and empty all the time, the ‘excitement’ of meeting a new guy and the remote possibility that that new guy will meet their impossible needs causes them to have a SLIGHT positive feeling.

That feeling they experience is miles away from their enormous inner misery and hence they translate that positive feeling as ‘love’.

Of course, we all know the consequences and superficiality of that feeling.
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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #42 on: January 17, 2012, 01:13:04 PM »

They never change. Stop fretting over trash. Do nc because it is going to help you immensely in recovering. I can assure you that interacting with normal people is like breathing clean air after having been trapped in a sunken submarine. You manage to escape. You can breath again. Why are you wondering if it's better to be trapped with a deeply disfunctional person?

You're absolutely right.  In my brain, I know I need to stay the hell out of the relationship with my ex BP gf.  But part of me - and I know at this point this is still faulty thinking - still wants the relationship between the BP and her new guy to fail.  I think it would validate and confirm my belief that she is in fact a BP and that all my suffering while I was with her was not (for the most part) my fault.
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« Reply #43 on: January 17, 2012, 01:25:06 PM »

@avoid.

You are 100% correct. That is what it is in a nutshell. It's more about validating us. If it fails, that makes the breakup not our fault. I think in this case in a sick kinda way, may show progress than faulty thinking. We are being selfish and its about us, NOT THEM.


I am going to be honest. 4 months ago when my ex left me she hooked up with a guy within days. 2 months later they split up. I can honestly tell you that I felt the BEST I have felt since the split. It gave me some closure. They got back together a week later now she is prego and marrying the dude.


I had to do a little soul searching to try to figure out what made me so happy they split and I found that it was the fact that I am not flawed. I do not want this person back in my life in any way shape or form but I am waiting for the day to hear about the demise of this relationship.

You guys be the judge on my statements but I can't help how I feel. Call it selfish or whatever you want. For once I am the one thinking about me and not them.
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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #44 on: January 17, 2012, 02:13:44 PM »

@avoid.

You are 100% correct. That is what it is in a nutshell. It's more about validating us. If it fails, that makes the breakup not our fault. I think in this case in a sick kinda way, may show progress than faulty thinking. We are being selfish and its about us, NOT THEM.


I am going to be honest. 4 months ago when my ex left me she hooked up with a guy within days. 2 months later they split up. I can honestly tell you that I felt the BEST I have felt since the split. It gave me some closure. They got back together a week later now she is prego and marrying the dude.


I had to do a little soul searching to try to figure out what made me so happy they split and I found that it was the fact that I am not flawed. I do not want this person back in my life in any way shape or form but I am waiting for the day to hear about the demise of this relationship.

You guys be the judge on my statements but I can't help how I feel. Call it selfish or whatever you want. For once I am the one thinking about me and not them.

I like this line of thinking.  That it's time we become a bit more "selfish" or at least self-protective.  I feel really bad for this new guy in her life, I don't think he has the benefit of this forum (and sadly neither did I during my BPD relationship) and as a result he has no idea what he's getting himself into.
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slvr6543
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« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2012, 02:24:52 PM »

You got that  right. He has no clue. This girl is unbelievably attractive. she could be a model. I knew her before we hooked up and she is a very good person. Between her looks and how she can be very good this guy thinks he has hit the jackpot. I feel sorry for him to an extent. I stayed with a BPD person for 3 years and I know there is a reason for that. There was something that made me ignore the signs.

I can promise you this though. There is no girl in this universe that's going to come at me after being day out of a relationship (with her child) and move in with me and my child. Then, get her pregnant and asked her to marry me less than 3 months together . Thats just insane for even me.

LOL. it is what it is. With that, I would say he deserves what he gets. Thats just plain stupid. He just met her.
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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2012, 02:28:58 PM »

How do you break up with someone after only two months?  Surely things must have been really bad to get that bad that quick... why on earth would this new guy in your ex's life want to proceed with having a child with her?

With all the misfortune that fell upon us during our relationships with these BP's, thank goodness we never had any unbreakable ties to them!  Can you imagine the pain we'd have to go through if, like many members on this forum, we constantly had to see them from time to time and have them rub their "happiness" in our faces?
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« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2012, 02:40:39 PM »

I was with her for 3 years. We have been split up 3.5 months. She has been with him since we split. all this happen in 3.5 months. They even split up after 2 months then got back together. I was with her  alot longer than 2 months.Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I guess he has never been with someone so attractive and she can be the sweetest person in the world. She loves having sex. So with those 3 things and him not knowing she is BPD has him hooked. She is idealizing him right now. He is so screwed. I didnt marry her or get her prego because I knew something was wrong and she left 4 times in the 3 years. Believe me. She tried to get me to marry her 1,000 times within the first year.

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« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2012, 12:58:20 AM »

Excerpt
If anyone else has further insight into this particular type of behavior, ie getting a call/text from your BP ex, responding back, and then being ignored, please fill us in we'd love to hear it!

Borderlines have not gone through the necessary abandonment depression that is needed to become a “self.” The disorder is all about seeking out replacement attachments for the primary object (Mother) and then fleeing from "her" due to the persecutions they feel about the original failure to be a “self.” Because BPD is "other" directed, the distorted belief is that the "other person" caused these feelings to occur.  Blaming others allows for the fragile, deficient ego to repair itself- but only temporarily before the process repeats- sometimes in minutes, sometimes in hours and sometimes in days.

Since Borderline is a failure to be a “self,” apart from the attachment to others; there is an inability to “self” soothe- so every feeling is outwardly directed as being caused by someone else.  The same is true of dealing with the emotions that surface due to dysregulation. Borderlines cannot self soothe. They haven't been taught.  So they impulsively look to “other” directed sources for relief.

Both good and bad feelings come from outside sources. Much of this emotional dysregulation cannot be kept in “object constancy” and results in Borderline blame. But in order to blame there must be a sounding “other” who hears and who gives *reward* to the part-time object who is now feeling “badly” due to the distorted perceptions that someone else caused the problems and the Borderline is helpless. The goal of finding reward in others is for the “bad” to be cast off onto the perceived cause of the problem (the “other-directed” person in blame) while being soothed with the (other directed) "good" projections of the rescuer.  Everything comes from the outside to a Borderline, as they have no real sense of self direction and self responsibility, and therefore, no self accord.

This exchange usually works well with a rescuer personality (a friend or romantic partner who brings their own issues of need into the dynamic) to fulfill the “good” part time object for Borderline mirroring and buoyancy of the Borderline part time self. The resulting mirroring of the partner and the partner’s projection of good allows for both people to feel better- and the Borderline’s shallow emotions to calm- by blaming the third party. This is an attachment to a Borderline.

Now, to answer your question: why do they ignore return phone calls after they call you for help? That’s because the crisis is over and they don’t need you anymore. The crisis has passed. The feelings have come up to the surface and purged and now they are dormant again. Borderlines have shallow emotions and they can explode very quickly. They either suffer cleansing rages or they learn to push down these feelings until they cannot hold them off- and they seek out others to help them purge in "other person" over-sharing.  That's when you'll get a phone call, or text in what is an extinction burst.  

Over sharing means they attract well meaning people who try to help. Those who remain may be in the cycle due to their own pathological altruism.  Borderlines *always* have a crisis to solve- this is very important for the Borderline who lives in blame and who cannot self soothe and this can be very satisfying to some people with pathological altruism. It also ensures that there is a drama triangle at play concerning the distorted belief system that there is a crisis caused by “other” object orientation. That means there must be three people to move the drama- one to cause it, the other to flee from it and the third to listen to it and take sides. There is reward in there somewhere, try to be honest with yourself about what that is. Once you become accustomed to reward, you get really upset when you can’t have it- and that applies to everyone, not just people with BPD  Idea


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« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2012, 01:53:17 AM »

How are you AvoidAtAllCost? Are you managing to weather the storm? I understand what you are going through. My ex dumped me and never told me who the new object was, but her ex was back in her life and the parents changed their opinion of him because they had a new person to hate, me. They never knew me at all but believed every smear my ex told them. They called us a mistake and then forbid her to talk about us. The child we have is growing up without his Dad because of their ego's and pride. My ex was telling me all these things about her ex just before she broke up with me. Some good but still threw in all the bad stuff like he wasn't paying enough child support etc. She had me fooled that she hated him but I bet there was more going on. If she comes back to tell me how much she is enjoying life with her ex or new bf, I will take it with a grain of salt. Maybe she is in the honeymoon or things are genuinely better. If that is the case, despite how much it might hurt, I would have to choose to be happy for her because ultimately my child gets a happy Mother, if that's at all possible.
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« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2012, 05:56:58 AM »

2010,

Excellent analysis.
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« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2012, 08:32:02 AM »

How are you AvoidAtAllCost? Are you managing to weather the storm? I understand what you are going through. My ex dumped me and never told me who the new object was, but her ex was back in her life and the parents changed their opinion of him because they had a new person to hate, me. They never knew me at all but believed every smear my ex told them. They called us a mistake and then forbid her to talk about us. The child we have is growing up without his Dad because of their ego's and pride. My ex was telling me all these things about her ex just before she broke up with me. Some good but still threw in all the bad stuff like he wasn't paying enough child support etc. She had me fooled that she hated him but I bet there was more going on. If she comes back to tell me how much she is enjoying life with her ex or new bf, I will take it with a grain of salt. Maybe she is in the honeymoon or things are genuinely better. If that is the case, despite how much it might hurt, I would have to choose to be happy for her because ultimately my child gets a happy Mother, if that's at all possible.

After 3 months of breakup, I'm still a little surprised at how deeply affected I've been by all this.  It's not as bad now as it was in the immediate aftermath of the breakup, but I still think about her all the time.  And her attempts to re-engage me a few times (because it was an emergency and she needed something from me of course) have only caused the wounds to reopen.  I've started seeing other women etc and I still find it shocking that she can move on so quickly, literally the next day after the breakup (if not even before that!) while I am so slow to pick up the pieces of my life.

I cannot even imagine the pain and everyday horror you must have to go through by remaining in constant contact with a person not unlike my own ex.  To have to deal with her over how our child is raised, like you do, I'd probably go insane and stay there!
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« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2012, 09:17:22 AM »

I've started seeing other women etc and I still find it shocking that she can move on so quickly, literally the next day after the breakup (if not even before that!) while I am so slow to pick up the pieces of my life.



You are not slow. You are healing properly from someone you invested so much emotionally on. Her ‘moving on’ so fast should tell you how superficial she is and that moving on is not the appropriate word to describe it. I would describe it as ‘changing channels’.

pwBPD are just impossible to be with them no matter how much we tried. No one can do it, at least no human can.

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« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2012, 09:34:21 AM »

I've started seeing other women etc and I still find it shocking that she can move on so quickly, literally the next day after the breakup (if not even before that!) while I am so slow to pick up the pieces of my life.



You are not slow. You are healing properly from someone you invested so much emotionally on. Her ‘moving on’ so fast should tell you how superficial she is and that moving on is not the appropriate word to describe it. I would describe it as ‘changing channels’.

pwBPD are just impossible to be with them no matter how much we tried. No one can do it, at least no human can.

It's hard to tell whether the BPD just doesn't care, or if she's just repressing what she feels and will only take it out on the new guy, or even me somewhere down the line.  I suspect her periodic attempts to contact me here and there, ie calling me and ignoring me when I respond may be just her way of getting me back for some of the hurt I cause her.  But that's the strange part: after everything she did to me, post break up she called me for a couple of emergencies and both times I was still there for her.  And yet she continues to hurt me by calling/texting me, then ignoring me when I respond.

These people are just so disordered despite all the comfort I've found on this forum, and all the info I have read about bipolar/BPD, I still don't understand this.
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« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2012, 11:12:25 AM »

I believe they try to care but end up in a hollow place again. It's the child incapable of loving in context. Their needs are primary care needs that are too important yet lacking, so they cannot focus on anybody else. I really feel your pain as being out of contact with my ex for almost two years and having a child to her is bitter sweet. I do miss her and wonder about how she is doing but feel blessed that I am not dealing with having my feelings trampled on repeatedly. The quality of life is back for me. Something I had when I met her and that she found so attractive in me. It's a shame they cannot celebrate the good qualities of others rather than try and destroy and compete with them. I would like to know how my child is doing? I don't think I can honestly expect her to stay away for my entire life, having a child with her, so the job ahead for me is to try and establish healthy boundaries pertaining to her if she decides to revisit old wounds. They do have some sense of how they hurt others because my ex told me that I was about to experience a pain unlike anything just before she broke it off with me. A couple of times before that, upon getting back together she told me she didn't want to hurt me. Sounds like I was painted black, behind my back.
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« Reply #55 on: January 18, 2012, 12:32:07 PM »

I would like to know how my child is doing? I don't think I can honestly expect her to stay away for my entire life, having a child with her, so the job ahead for me is to try and establish healthy boundaries pertaining to her if she decides to revisit old wounds.

I am drifting from the subject of this thread but I can’t help but comment on this as your comment about not being able to see your child is too much.

How can society prevent a parent from seeing their children? A woman with a serious disorder can take the child and move into another state (or country), make it difficult for the father from seeing the child and the laws wouldn’t prevent her!

Don’t mean to sound sexist or anything but sometimes it feels that the society laws are (to say the least) unequal.

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« Reply #56 on: January 18, 2012, 05:24:14 PM »

It's a tough one isn't it. If her new relationship is really her old relationship re booted, then her ex (before me) is looking in on my child, as he has two children to her prior to me coming onto the scene. But I don't actually know, she has vanished and could be dating Chewbacca for all I know. It is creepy that her "perfect" parents decide on who is good and who is not, based on second hand gossip from the mouths of people who I've never met. I have posted on legal boards here and it has been a great help. I have also had conversations with several lawyers and still no progress. My son misses out on a good Dad because of the fear of what might happen. It is the way of life for this family who truly miss out on the love they could be receiving.
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Suzn
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« Reply #57 on: January 18, 2012, 07:18:20 PM »

This ignoring my messages when I respond to something she sent me first is something I will never understand.  Why do this to people, months after the relationship has ended?  It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

  I totally understand this senerio and why. My exBPDgf did this. Ok she cheated on me several times and we broke up and got back together several times. During breakups I would get these texts and I would respond as you did and then nothing. Irritated the hell out of me... but this is what was happening... .it was during this time she was painting me black to the new person... "seeee she wont leave me alone?" The new person never bothered to ask "well what did YOU say to her?" See I caught her doing this when we were back together. She had told me the person she cheated on me with wouldnt leave her alone now. I said "WHAT DID YOU SAY TO THIS OTHER PERSON FIRST?" All hell broke lose. I saved her in the beginning of our r/s and several times after that when we would break up and get back together. Id be told that other person was abusive... .which btw is probably what your ex is telling her new man about you... .and he is taking "good" care of her. She'll break him like a twig just like she did you.

BPD doesnt go away. Its there forever unless they get help. This guy will go through what you have eventually. Its sad. 
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“Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.” ~Jacob M. Braude
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« Reply #58 on: January 18, 2012, 07:51:34 PM »

Rotten stuff. It's like she makes each situation up to fit the player. An innocent text will be set up as harassment to a new object. So horrific it makes you want to take a shower. What about being honest? The truth will set you free? Pigs might fly.
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« Reply #59 on: January 18, 2012, 07:56:16 PM »

Right on suzi,

All you need to do is watch their actions when your with them during and after breakups. They do the same things over and over. the people just change. Its like watching an actor changing up the cast. My ex use to do the same crap. She would go as far as telling me someone was texting her (pass tense) and she just ignored them. Just look at what he/she told you about their ex before you. I bet she is doing the same to you. A mutual friend (my friend actually) saw my ex at a concert with her knew man and before he could ask her how has she been she started the smear campaign on me. He told her that he didn't want to get all involved in that and walked off. Hopefully she felt like an idiot.
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