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Experts share their discoveries [video]
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Caretaking - What is it all about?
Margalis Fjelstad, PhD
Blame - why we do it?
Brené Brown, PhD
Family dynamics matter.
Alan Fruzzetti, PhD
A perspective on BPD
Ivan Spielberg, PhD
Poll
Question: Did your ex cheat on you when you were in the relationship? [pick highest level that applies]
Multiple sexual/emotional affairs, confirmed
One sexual/emotional affair, confirmed
Multiple sexual affairs, confirmed
One sexual affair, confirmed
Multiple emotional affairs, confirmed
One emotional affair, confirmed
I have strong suspicions
No
Don't know
Other (please explain)

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Author Topic: Poll: BPD and cheating without remorse  (Read 50148 times)
JonnyJon42
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« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2012, 04:46:43 PM »

You never win

Just rebemer this will happen again and again and again just a different suit is all
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Finished
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« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2012, 05:05:05 PM »

I saw my ex regress and progress and regress too many times ... .Even if "in full recovery mode" the answer for me is no ... .Never again ... .Can a pwBPD improve? I'm sure they can ... .Will it ever be emough for me to feel safe and comfortable? NO ... .Never want this experience again ... .

So when your BP ex was on drugs and/or in therapy, did their behavior actually improve?  If so, what improvements did you actually see?

I don't think therapy ever helped my ex. He manipulated his therapist to get her to say what he wanted her to say so that he could use it to justify his actions. A year ago he, after getting caught in a particularly bad batch of lies, he admitted to myself, his therapist, his family that he used his therapist to justify his actions. "My therapist says ... ." fill in the blank. No, I don't think therapy ever worked for him. It seemed to just give him more ammunition.  

Yes, medication helped in that he slowed down his emotions so that they didn't overwhelm him. However, it was limited at best. Even at a slower rate, his emotions still moved faster than he could frequently keep up with them. I have no idea what the rest of the medication's purpose was as he kept most of it from me. But as there is no medication specifically for BPD any benefits are limited at best.
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« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2012, 06:45:59 PM »

It is hard to read these posts without feeling that sick in the stomach feeling. I remember the first time I had it when my ex turned off her phone and entertained an ex. Then when she told me that she might as well screw another guy after being with me for several months. I also despise her parents for blaming everybody around her that is close to her. Reality in that family is scarce. She projected her games onto me saying I was the loose one, when I was so dedicated to her. I cannot imagine how many games she has played with men since I have gone. Just waiting for the letter from Child Support saying there is another child in her care. Accepting they are broken people is so hard.
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« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2012, 03:17:07 AM »

By the way, she would use this "entitlement" problem of mine as further proof that I had BPD.

My belief that two people in a serious relationship should only have sex with each other was also seen as MY problem. I just wanted to OWN him, how sick, not well-adjusted at all, completely delusional... .but same as everyone else's exerience if I suggested that I go off and get some on the side it was nonononono. At least as soon as it moved beyond the purely hypothetical. He'd say okay, I don't care, but if I said "well, how about if I just go talk to that random guy over there?"... .suddenly it would get turned around into me wanting to end the relationship.
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« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2012, 04:07:47 AM »

Excerpt
Being a student of psychology, I am intrigued by BPD's and their traits. I am happily nearing indifference myself, some resentment but still making progress in the right direction. The topic that I would love to hear back on is the pwBPD's strange lack of remorse for their cheating ways. My ex for example, would you cheat and always get caught but declare that she thought we had broken up.

Object constancy is a necessary component of the separation/individuation phase. Since you're a student of psy, you might find Mahler's theory interesting.

Separation-Individuation Phase: The first three years of life are critical in determining personality and mental health. The sub-phases are:

       :)ifferentiating Phase

       Practicing Phase

       Rapprochement Phase

       Object Constancy Phase

Borderlines do not have object constancy and they suffer from rapprochement crisis.  Because there is no constancy they begin all or none thinking until the object returns. Once the object leaves the process begins anew.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ydkom6-IBY

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n_n

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« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2012, 06:01:15 AM »

This is my first post.

Im Japanese and sorry for my broken English.

I don't think taking threrapy & medications has worked on my ex.

About a year ago, he begged me to get back together like crazy.(we broke up once becaue he cheated on me and I had no idea he had BPD then... .) He was so unstable and suicidal... .Now I know it was stupid idea but then I thounght I should help him... .

He was hospitalized a couple of times and suicidal for a while. After that he seemed to get better by taking therapy & medications. However, I found out that it was TOTALLY FAKE. He pretended to be fine and made me and his family relieved, but the fact was that he was sleeping around and doing crazy stuff... .I told him I found out the truth and left him immediately, but this guy still tried to lie  

He is very good at lying. I believe that he even can lie to his doctors.

Now he is out of any meds. He told me that his doctor allowed him but I doubt it. He might lied to him very well.

I wasted almost 4 yrs for this terrible guy... .  Nobody doubted that we were having a great relationship but he destroyed everyhing... .

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Sir5r
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« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2012, 06:33:17 AM »

They are the ultimate liars. Think about it. They lie to themselves, they are like chameleons when it comes to the truth. Because they lie to themselves they function in whatever reality they want you to believe to get what they want from you.  Whether it's affection or physical gain it does not matter, you will never get the truth.

That's the world I live in after 25 years with my wife, I know I never have heard the truth. I know enough of the facts to be able to see a blurry version of her past but the chance of actually getting the truth from her is dim.

What she doesn't seem to understand is that has created trust issues that will continue to erode the relationship and if not settled soon cause me to end it.

It's hard enough dealing with their abuses without trust in them it's nearly impossible, even when they're in therapy. Because where there's no trust there's no true intimacy.


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sm15000
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« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2012, 12:19:09 PM »

Excerpt
What she doesn't seem to understand is that has created trust issues that will continue to erode the relationship and if not settled soon cause me to end it.

It's hard enough dealing with their abuses without trust in them it's nearly impossible, even when they're in therapy. Because where there's no trust there's no true intimacy

This is one of the most difficult parts.  I was with my exuBPD/NPDso for 13 years. . .there's no doubt in my mind in the end he was cheating. . .and i confronted him. . .and most people on here knows what happens then  

So, i ended it. . .and i really don't think he has any idea of what he put me through and absolutely no understanding about eroding my trust etc.  In order to take the heat off what he had recently been doing, he told me at the beginning of our relationship for years he was seeing 6 other women and me. . .

When i obviously starting asking him about it - all he could say was "that was in the past" in an irritated don't question me way.  

He's just told me that, along with my mind racing about what he was currently up to but no. . .i was supposed to just sweep it under the carpet and carry on.  

He is a highly intelligent man. . .university lecturer but when i mentioned the notion of emotional infidelity - he had absolutely no idea what i was on about.  Funny enough, it was portrayed in a drama series we have here and i asked him if he saw it - "saw it", he said "i was taking notes" - i bet he was, learning something new in case he gets asked about it again.

To be honest i think i knew he was seeing others right at the beginning but it didn't bother me as i had come out of a long term relationship and wasn't looking for anything serious but after a while we both said we only wanted to be with each other. . .now i don't know what the hell has gone on, who he was or what the hell he was up to. . .and it's truly awful and no matter how much i still miss him, is why it would never work - as you say no trust, no real intimacy
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« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2012, 12:29:00 PM »

I think BPD's quest for Chaos is based around 1 thing. NEED. Need is the altimate cause of their demise. If you listen to them its always about what THEY need or what is lacking in THEIR life. My ex would tell me all the time, MY life is so screwed up and I can see how people commit suicide , as she would be making yet another mistake (poor decisions) to further her demise.

EXAMPLE:

Ex girlfriend leaves me and hooks up with a guy days later. 2 months later is pregnant. The new guy puts her through a bathroom door and tried to hit her in the stomach with a hammer. She leaves him. He threatens her whole family with death threats including her little girl and left 85 voicemail messages on her dad's phone. He has a gambling problem and a rap sheet filled with domestic violence charges. Here is the kicker.

She doesnt work, has no family here. I am the only person who could possibly help her (which I am not available to her although she tried) She was talking about getting an abortion because she said it wasn't right to bring a child into this world under these circumstances. Since that time, she goes back to the guy and having the baby. Her NEED to have someone take care of her overshadows and logic thinking. She will not make it through the pregnancy term before he beats the crap out her again.

You will hear "My life is so screwed up I just want to die". These people make really poor decisions based on NEED and they are their worst enemys.
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Sir5r
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« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2012, 12:46:22 PM »

I think BPD's quest for Chaos is based around 1 thing. NEED. Need is the altimate cause of their demise. If you listen to them its always about what THEY need or what is lacking in THEIR life. My ex would tell me all the time, MY life is so screwed up and I can see how people commit suicide , as she would be making yet another mistake (poor decisions) to further her demise.

EXAMPLE:

Ex girlfriend leaves me and hooks up with a guy days later. 2 months later is pregnant. The new guy puts her through a bathroom door and tried to hit her in the stomach with a hammer. She leaves him. He threatens her whole family with death threats including her little girl and left 85 voicemail messages on her dad's phone. He has a gambling problem and a rap sheet filled with domestic violence charges. Here is the kicker.

She doesnt work, has no family here. I am the only person who could possibly help her (which I am not available to her although she tried) She was talking about getting an abortion because she said it wasn't right to bring a child into this world under these circumstances. Since that time, she goes back to the guy and having the baby. Her NEED to have someone take care of her overshadows and logic thinking. She will not make it through the pregnancy term before he beats the crap out her again.

You will hear "My life is so screwed up I just want to die". These people make really poor decisions based on NEED and they are their worst enemys.

My wife is a Master of BPD ju jitsu.  She will yell scream, rant and rave for and hour then schmooze you into taking her out to dinner that night.  She has lied to my face and expected what amounted to a reward for lying hours later.

They live in the moment.  Even if your really good at interrogating them to get to the truth you will either get anger or tears and dissociation.

Sir5r
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slvr6543
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« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2012, 12:52:12 PM »

Soo True... .amazing
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sm15000
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« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2012, 12:55:49 PM »

Excerpt
Even if your really good at interrogating them to get to the truth you will either get anger or tears and dissociation.

Yeah, i pushed him sometimes and got a few half truths. . .but it was mostly one of the above at different times.

I told him our relationship was over one night very late after we had been going around in circles for hours. . .the next morning i mentioned we were supposed to be going to see a comedian that night. . .he said, come on let's go it'll be fun   yeah, what a laugh
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cookie_au_lait

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« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2012, 03:01:12 PM »

his exgf moved in with them (he lived with his mom) and said that he could not do anything because it was his mom's home. he was still with me, kept calling, etc ONLY if he's not with the girl because he fears he might HURT her feelings. it is always someone else's fault but his. his other ex has issues, because her mom had issues, his own mom has issues, even his grandmother... except HIM? come on. he has a dysfunctional family in the first place.
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Easydoesitnow
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« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2012, 05:37:49 PM »

She is a single mother, so I understand that some single moms without BPD also do this.

I am interested in the basis for this comment as I am currently a single mother and this fact alone would make me no more likely to cheat than anyone else... .
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Easydoesitnow
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« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2012, 05:45:48 PM »

This is my first post.

Im Japanese and sorry for my broken English.

I don't think taking threrapy & medications has worked on my ex.

About a year ago, he begged me to get back together like crazy.(we broke up once becaue he cheated on me and I had no idea he had BPD then... .) He was so unstable and suicidal... .Now I know it was stupid idea but then I thounght I should help him... .

He was hospitalized a couple of times and suicidal for a while. After that he seemed to get better by taking therapy & medications. However, I found out that it was TOTALLY FAKE. He pretended to be fine and m ade me and his family relieved, but the fact was that he was sleeping around and doing crazy stuff... .I told him I found out the truth and left him immediately, but this guy still tried to lie  

He is very good at lying. I believe that he even can lie to his doctors.

Now he is out of any meds. He told me that his doctor allowed him but I doubt it. He might lied to him very well.

I wasted almost 4 yrs for this terrible guy... .  Nobody doubted that we were having a great relationship but he destroyed everyhing... .

n_n I appreciate the sentiment in your post.  I am feeling like I wasted the past 2.5 years on someone who was not truthful.  Now that I have had some space I an truly grateful that I don't have to endure that any longer, and at least I won't waste any more time... .
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« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2012, 08:47:22 PM »

Easydoesitnow

Thank you for your reply Smiling (click to insert in post)

I am so glad that you are out. I am also relived that I don't need to put up with his terrible bevaviour anymore and can start new life withought him.

I used to miss him a lot, but now not at all. I am still angry at him but I stopped being nice to him and feel getting better.

Actually I wasted almost 4 yrs, but now I try to think that I fortunately could find the truth earlier and learned a lot from the relationship.

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bengaltropicat
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« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2012, 12:48:14 AM »

I get that my ex UBPD doesn't have a conscience.  I am still wondering why his family thinks it is OK for him to cheat after 30+ years together and act like his two months gf is equivalent to the woman who raised his children for the past 27 years. Wack-o city. He meets a gypsy con artist and she is just as important as me to them?  Get real. Hey guys, he dies and you will never see the kids; just remember that.
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« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2012, 01:00:03 AM »

There is no real-ity withBPD. They are continually rewriting history.  Lies, lies, more lies and lies for no reason; just to screw with us nons. 

They routinely lie about things that are of no consequence just to feel like they are in control and to create chaos which leads to control.  Sad to think they have to lie, lie and lie; over and over.  You cannot take it personally.  It is their disorder.   
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WillThisGetBetter
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« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2012, 03:38:16 AM »

You know everyone deserves honest love... .I knew my ex was cheating or at least I knew something was wrong. I should have listened to my gut. Thinking back on what I put up with it's just disgusting. There's a real temptation to turn that disgust onto one's self.  But as long as your love was sincere you don't have much to be ashamed of. It takes smokers several attempts before they quit.  I still miss companionship but I don't miss him. I feel sorry for him because I, probably the best thing that ever will happen to him could no longer stand to even hear him talk anymore. He was not the best thing that happened to me.  Lies lies and more lies. But I learned, I learned

I am not damaged I am now healed of the original problem that caused me to stay! I'm free and it won't happen again

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bpdlover
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« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2012, 06:04:34 AM »

I hear you WillThisGetBetter. I have also had moments where I have felt disgusted with myself for allowing the manipulation and not putting a stop to the relationship. There is also the fact that my ex moved so fast. From love bombing to pregnancy and sudden break ups. My head was spinning and I was six months into it before I even knew BPD existed. The reality of her illness really only hit home after she vanished. I guess that also suggests how much I wanted to escape my self at the time. Despite constant crazy behaviour and break ups, I always believed that her love was for real. I know my love was sincere but she cannot accept real love and turns it on the person who cares for her most. I don't miss her either. I feel lucky to have escaped. I was one of the best things that happened to her and I also have no doubt that it boosted her ego which is sad. However, it is a game to her, any sort of bagging, name calling, smear campaign or self serving false opinion painted by the ego will do and I would be painted as black as night now. She as much a slut for half truths and lies as she is for fraudulent unions. I don't really wish to call her that but the behaviour fits. It's a shame, I loved her but as we know about BPD, it's their loss.
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Easydoesitnow
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« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2012, 07:29:19 AM »

I just found that my exbf is a member of various swinger sites.  Explains why he suddenly wanted to travel.
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Sir5r
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« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2012, 09:02:49 AM »

There is no real-ity withBPD. They are continually rewriting history.  Lies, lies, more lies and lies for no reason; just to screw with us nons. 

They routinely lie about things that are of no consequence just to feel like they are in control and to create chaos which leads to control.  Sad to think they have to lie, lie and lie; over and over.  You cannot take it personally.  It is their disorder.   

----------------------------------

This is so true. I've taken to keeping a journal in order to make sense of what she says.

It's the only way I can get a grasp on what really happened in her life by weeding through the lies.  It was when I started doing this I began to make some sense out of her past. So much of what she told me about herself was half truths or outright fabrication.

Sir5r
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n_n

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« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2012, 09:42:46 AM »

Easydoesitnow

My ex was (or still, idk) using kinda swinger websites, too  

I wrote about it on another post "How do you cope with your anger?".

I hope you are ok, because when I found out, I got panicked... .I really do not understand why they can do things which can destroy their own life... .I think my ex just can not control his desire. He should know he can loose his carrier, family & friends, but thats not my business anymore... .
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« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2012, 10:04:17 AM »

My ex was taught to never cheat, and he never technically did!

He must've voted for Bill Clinton Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

No... he "never had sex with that woman", but emotional cheating was not a consideration for him. 

In the first two yrs of our r/s, he met his ex Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) various places, spoke to her on the phone... etc.

When he left me six months ago, after six years, six days after (oh my 6-6-6!  ), he was on a date with a woman while I was reeling in pain and disbelief, still wearing an engagement ring. 

I think all BPDs cheat, whether it's physical or emotional.
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sm15000
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« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2012, 04:33:43 AM »

Excerpt
I think all BPDs cheat, whether it's physical or emotional

Although there are a few members here who say their partners were not cheaters. . .yes i think it is very rare.  I know my ex was seeing other people for the first few years of our relationship as recently, he had to tell me.  But then for the next 6 years all i can say is his behaviour didn't reflect a man who was cheating.

In the last couple of years however his behaviour changed again and i believe my ex was both physically and emotionally cheating again. . .he lied about the physical and seemed to have no understanding of the concept of 'emotional cheating'. . .basically he was getting his ego stroked constantly in a number of different ways - 'NEED'. . .and whether he was flirting, getting in a compromising situation, having one night stands or affairs. . .they were just friends  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  It is quite easy to see when he's going elsewhere as his interest in you changes quite dramatically.

Excerpt
When he left me six months ago, after six years, six days after (oh my 6-6-6!  , he was on a date with a woman while I was reeling in pain and disbelief, still wearing an engagement ring.

Ruthless   . . .i suppose if you have no empathy, it's hard to have a conscience.  It was blatantly clear with my ex, he had no understanding of how cheating hurts. . .i've seen him with friends who have had issues as well as our crisis. . .and he dismisses it completely and gives the impression he doesn't know what the 'fuss' is about.  
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« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2012, 06:34:03 AM »

I think they can cheat without remorse because for them sex is superficial, a performance, a tool they use to gain control over us. My ex gf is one of those who (I think) never "technically" cheated, though she constantly flirted. Before breaking up with me she said she wasn't ready for commitment, and she asked my permission (!) to be with other men for a while with a view to eventually coming back and marrying me! When I said no she got angry and broke up with me to hook up with the man she had waiting.
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« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2012, 07:14:27 AM »

I think they can cheat without remorse because for them sex is superficial, a performance, a tool they use to gain control over us. My ex gf is one of those who (I think) never "technically" cheated, though she constantly flirted.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Because of their intimacy fears they tend to keep sex "at a distance."

I know for my wife that isn't a firm boundary, depending on her relationship she would let some of her exes closer than others. Part of their black and white thinking makes them vulnerable when they paint an new obsession or target white.  My wife claims she was celibate for two years, I have my doubts about that, but when she "decided" on someone she pursued a relationship, if it could be called that, that lasted less then two weeks.  Ended up being treated very poorly, felt used but still claims to this day "she wanted to get laid" and was a strong woman going and getting what she wanted.

The truth is she was very hurt but has NEVER said that to me.   

Their implsivity is a danger to them for sure. Think about it.  How many people will sleep with someone the first night out?   That was the case with for me, although it was masked by the setting. We were in college, had seen each other out a few times and then she decided to call me.


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« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2012, 09:08:28 PM »



With my ex-BPDbf, I found that you could literally almost catch him in the act, and he would still profess that nothing was going on in an absolutely convincing way.  I know on some level he certainly knew what he was doing, but there is an element of it in which I've come to believe they truly believe their own lies and that's why they are so astoundingly smooth.  It seems to become more so over time, although he is closer to me in a friend way.  Almost ramped up.  We are pretty much no contact now, and he continues to lie with even little things.  Not sure what that is all about. He is getting older and now forgets some of his coverups. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).

I realized my woman's intuition was right on a very long time ago. The level of cheating is unbelievable and I am lucky I came away safe.  I know now that everytime we had a big fight and broke up for a week, he was off with someone else.
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« Reply #58 on: April 18, 2018, 10:18:21 AM »

BP's survived by looking after themselves.  When they cheat on you usually it's because of something they think you did to them to make them cheat.  They justify their behavior in all kinds of ways that make perfect sense to them.  Either they "think" you were broken up, or as in my case, they were never in a "relationship" with you to begin with.  That is, until they find out that you've been seeing other people too and then you're the person who's been dishonest.

Their world doesn't make sense.  Their brains are disordered.  There are reasons they do what they do, of course.  However, no matter what the reason the end result is the same: they subconsciously start to develop the idea that you are their persecutor and their abuser.  Over time, they will try to destroy your life and make you mentally ill.  As soon as you drop them off at home after a weekend together, they will be calling the next guy/girl to come over.

And they'll be doing it all with a great big smile on their face.
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« Reply #59 on: April 18, 2018, 11:47:06 AM »

As a woman, I try to be open minded about different kinds of relationships including ones that do not include monogamy. Over the years, I have met many people who have relationships outside their marriages, and I have found by getting to know some of these so called cheaters or open marriage people, that nearly every single one of them has challenges with empathy, connection, and that they all seem to be looking for the next relationship as a way to fill an inner emptiness. People with BPD do have problems with feeling empty inside, and often look for a new relationship to fill the inner void, which of course never works for long.
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