An update from Yeets

[yeeter]

My first post here was November 2010, after just reversing the divorce decision at the 11th hour, deciding to stay instead.  As is often the case, when I first found this site (directed to me by a very astute T that I had consulted with), it was an exercise in triage of crisis.  Lots of posting through the Winter, sorting myself out.  Learning.  Appreciating that I was NOT the only one and more importantly appreciating that I have found someone (and a group of people no less!) that could actually understand the dynamics.  Because unless you have lived it, you cannot.

During the Spring my posting fell off as other life activities became the focus, then last Fall it picked up again, before going radio silent for a couple months in Nov and Dec (thanks to all who reached out to check in with me).  It was a period of just applying the tools and learnings, into living my real life.  (which combined with an uptake at work pretty much is all consuming).  Then right before the Holidays I was feeling the impact again, so its back for some routine maintenance on myself.  I think what was happening (in both cases) is that I can go off and focus on myself and my own activities - for a while - before some aspect of loneliness creeps in, or I get completely worn out, and find myself down in the dumps again.

Clearly I havent fully gotten to where I am taking care of myself in a sustainable way.

At the same time there is dramatic improvement over where I was just over a year ago.  One area we have gotten dramatically better at, is in "Stop making things worse".  We now have the ability to recognize when things are escalating, and my wife (uNPD/uBPD) is able to say 'we need to stop and pick this up at another time'.  Conflict is less - yay!  (as a side note - we never DO come back to an issue at a later time... .  it just sits out there unresolved, knowing it is still emotionally triggering so just a topic to be avoided)

Then I picked up some basketball league which has helped me both for exercise and also social interaction.  And a regular lunch with a good friend that I had cut out of my life due to my wifes dislike, and its nice to be back in contact with friends.

All good stuff.

More work to do.  There is still much that is the same.  The hoarding continues to slowly overwhelm the remaining areas of the house (I have carved out a bedroom/office space, and also have a workshop I retreat to).  We dont really do much together - honestly, I just rarely enjoy it so avoid it.  We are able to do things as a family and with the kids, and this all goes well.  And although we are having sex again (yay!), afterwards I retreat to my own room for sleeping.  I cant say I am setting the best example for the kids on what a healthy relationship looks like, but Im not setting AS bad of a unhealthy example that I once was.

And during a counseling session with my T this week, I was able to reground myself on why I choose to stay.  That is simply, that by staying and adapting and changing my own behavior, I am able to give my kids a better environment than if we were in a bitter, contentious, high conflict coparenting divorced arrangement where every action would be enforced via court order (this is absolutely clear what would happen, and my wife has demonstrated history of this approach).

So its 'working'.  Two crappy choices to pick from.  I choose to stay.  And all of the underlying reasons are playing out.  The kids - all three (age 8, 6, 4) are doing GREAT!  We have managed to reduce the conflict that was destructive to their home life, and things are moving along.  Its really that simple (its not about 'me' - well... .  in a way it is because part of my values is to take care of my children the best I can, and I decided I could do a better job of it by being PRESENT - and adapted my own behavior to make that happen)

Yes there are still ups and downs, and its clear that I need to continue to work to get some pieces in place that help take care of ME better - on that I am failing - at least in a sustainable way, so there is my focus going forward.  Which really is the focus all along, and what many of you have heard me preach.  I have done some of this work, but there is more to do.

Thanks to everyone here for your engagement, advice, and support. 

-Yeets

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[briefcase]

Thanks for the update, Yeeter.  I am familiar with the path you describe.  Keep working!  What do you suppose is your next step?

[yeeter]

Some next steps (or goals to strive towards):

I still need to resolve the sense of loneliness.  With an NPD it can be pretty tiring to have all energies/resources revolve around her.  And when tired, its hard to fight (in a constructive) way for some balance on what I 'need'.  Something as simple as wanting my children to visit their great grandmother - can be seen as her not getting what she wants.  So this balance needs to come to grips with which leads into:

Wanting to do something together - with my wife.  Its been really hard for me to admit it, but I just dont like being around her and doing anything with her.  Somehow, on some activity, we need to find a way to make it enjoyable in each others company.  I dont know what its going to be (outside of child related activities - we do well there so thats been the focus).  We can do things that 'she' enjoys doing together (because I adapt), but our inherent styles are so opposite that we havent been able to find things that I genuinely enjoy doing with her.   I know she knows this, and is bothered by it, but of course her interpretation is that its all my attitude and behavior that is preventing it.

And social activities, around other healthy people that I enjoy.  Its there for the taking in various ways (I coach and coordinate soccer leagues in our town, which has been nice interactions).  The trick in this is scheduling the logistics.  (by the time work, and kid duties are complete it leaves about 1 hour a day for everything else... .  part of which is usually reserved for showering... .   ).  Im still looking for this - and the bball has been great because its night time after the kids are in bed (so I sacrifice some sleep, but worth it)

And just a little down time.  No real vacation this year, so hope to get something resembling a vacation in next year.  Turns out I need a little time off from the chaos from time to time, and havent been getting it.

Thats enough of a list... .  even half of these would be a great incremental step forward.

Did I miss something obvious?

[yeeter]

Oh - and the ongoing work:  Taking the responsibility to prevent any resentments from building up.

I know there are still some in there.  It gets in the way of enjoying her company.  I need to keep it cleared... .  

[yeeter]

One more note that I find hugely helpful:

Being very clear with yourself, and grounding yourself regularly, on exactly why you are staying in this relationship.


I think if you cant do this, its going to be an insurmountable task.

[real lady]

I still need to resolve the sense of loneliness.  With an NPD it can be pretty tiring to have all energies/resources revolve around her.  And when tired, its hard to fight (in a constructive) way for some balance on what I 'need'. 

 So nice to see you ((yeets)) and am so glad to hear that "things are getting better" and that you are "working on you"... .  I definitely am "with you" on the loneliness situation. My uBPDso is playing video games now from the time he wakes (about 2 pm.) until he comes to bed (5 am ) and then I get up and take care of the puppies and my son and feel that I am "just living here" with him... .  and being his caretaker. Our needs must be addressed and fulfilled by us... .  sad but true.

Wanting to do something together - with my wife.  Its been really hard for me to admit it, but I just dont like being around her and doing anything with her. 

I understand... .  it is almost like walking on eggshells as we constantly KNOW that it is only a matter of time before we step on a landmine and they dysregulate into a blow out fight or threats and yelling and cursing. I will admit that I do not enjoy my uBPDso's company either... .  VERY FEW moments in 2012 were enjoyable... .  FAR TOO FEW to count as "enjoying being with him".

Somehow, on some activity, we need to find a way to make it enjoyable in each others company. 

Honestly, I think my uBPDso shows that he WANTS to be left alone and creates his schedule to NOT have to be with me. When he is up and taking care of the puppies, my son and I LEAVE the house and go to the library, etc.

I dont know what its going to be (outside of child related activities - we do well there so thats been the focus). 

It's hard; especially with NPD that they will only "do what they want to do" and when I suggest a movie for US to watch together, he balks yet I have literally watched 100s of "his kind" of movies and programs "just TO BE WITH HIM". It's tiring so I just watch the movies by myself. I can only OFFER to be with him... .  I am holding him responsible for SOMETHING.

The trick in this is scheduling the logistics.  (by the time work, and kid duties are complete it leaves about 1 hour a day for everything else... .  part of which is usually reserved for showering... .   ).  Im still looking for this - and the bball has been great because its night time after the kids are in bed (so I sacrifice some sleep, but worth it)

I have done the same thing TO NO GOOD RESULT... .  he just changed his schedule MORE seemingly to make it harder for me to "stay up" with him until I just "drew the line" and let him know that "I needed to GO TO BED" for me... .  

No real vacation this year, so hope to get something resembling a vacation in next year. 

I hope you do; I don't have much chance of it unless I visit my brother or sister or friend while son is with his dad this summer... .  mmm... .  

Turns out I need a little time off from the chaos from time to time, and havent been getting it.

RESPITE... .  we definitely NEED time alone, time that things are "easy" and that we are not constantly warding off a fight with them. It would be nice to have the "fun" they my uBPDso and I used to have... .  no more.

Thats enough of a list... .  even half of these would be a great incremental step forward. And I hope you get it, not just half but ALL of it, you need it, you deserve it.

The only thing that I would add is that there is obvious LACK OF RECIPROCITY that we ALL must "radically accept" from our pwBPD. Really, can we expect from them what we KNOW that they are NOT REALLY ABLE to give to us? I struggle with this as well... .  we hope, sometimes in vain.

Wishing you well ((Yeeter))... .  keep posting... .  for YOU. It helps US here as well to hear your thoughts and process of working through it. A very supportive community. Happy NEW YEAR.

[briefcase]

Wanting to do something together - with my wife.  Its been really hard for me to admit it, but I just dont like being around her and doing anything with her.  Somehow, on some activity, we need to find a way to make it enjoyable in each others company.  I dont know what its going to be (outside of child related activities - we do well there so thats been the focus).  We can do things that 'she' enjoys doing together (because I adapt), but our inherent styles are so opposite that we havent been able to find things that I genuinely enjoy doing with her.   I know she knows this, and is bothered by it, but of course her interpretation is that its all my attitude and behavior that is preventing it.

This one has been tricky for me too.  I'll share some of the things my wife and I enjoy doing together, and maybe some of these things will help you.  We take walks when the weather is nice.  Last night we played a fun mystery/puzzle ipad game together (I asked her to "help" me because the clues were difficult, but I really just wanted to see if we could do it together).  It was a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to working on the next level of the game with her.  We get together with other couples on Friday nights at a restaurant for drinks or dinner at a local winery.  We go to festivals in the summer and fall.  We go to church on Sundays (although that one can sometimes be triggering  ).  

Is there one thing your wife enjoys that you also enjoy doing without having to "accomodate" the activity?  Maybe start there.  

[briefcase]

Wanting to do something together - with my wife.  Its been really hard for me to admit it, but I just dont like being around her and doing anything with her.  

I understand... .  it is almost like walking on eggshells as we constantly KNOW that it is only a matter of time before we step on a landmine and they dysregulate into a blow out fight or threats and yelling and cursing. I will admit that I do not enjoy my uBPDso's company either... .  VERY FEW moments in 2012 were enjoyable... .  FAR TOO FEW to count as "enjoying being with him".

Somehow, on some activity, we need to find a way to make it enjoyable in each others company.  

Honestly, I think my uBPDso shows that he WANTS to be left alone and creates his schedule to NOT have to be with me. When he is up and taking care of the puppies, my son and I LEAVE the house and go to the library, etc.

I dont know what its going to be (outside of child related activities - we do well there so thats been the focus).  

It's hard; especially with NPD that they will only "do what they want to do" and when I suggest a movie for US to watch together, he balks yet I have literally watched 100s of "his kind" of movies and programs "just TO BE WITH HIM". It's tiring so I just watch the movies by myself. I can only OFFER to be with him... .  I am holding him responsible for SOMETHING!

Yeah, movies and TV don't work for me either.  I think I've seen every chick flick made between 2000 and 2012 (Hugh Grant, Matthew McConaughey, the dark haired guy with the scar on his lip, I've seen them all!) and she still hasn't wanted to watch the final Star Wars movie with me!  I mean come one, isn't she the least bit curious to see how Darth Vader came into being?  Nope!  

If 100s of movies (or soccer leagues, or whatever) aren't working, keep looking and trying new things.  To be clear, keep watching your movies and coaching soccer (I officially retired from coaching last spring and miss it!), as part of taking care of yourself.  Once you stablize yourself, seek out common activities.  My work isn't done here either, but finding ways to enjoy each other's company seems like an important, and doable, "next step."

[briefcase]

Also, Yeeter, the ages of your children will almost by definition demand that many of your common activities will involve the kids.  As my kids have moved into their teens, it has freed up some time for my wife and I to try to reconnect.

[real lady]

briefcase said:

she still hasn't wanted to watch the final Star Wars movie with me.  I mean come one, isn't she the least bit curious to see how Darth Vader came into being?  Nope.   

OH MY, how it was "like pulling teeth" to get him to watch "Sweeney Todd" or "Phantom of the Opera" with me, he complained DURING the movie and he went to ONE movie that I wanted to see in the theatre: Jane Eyre and I haven't heard the last of it but I have seen ALL the Star Wars (Yes, Anakin's history was fascinating), Bourne, Firefly (which I enjoyed) Walking Dead plus ALL the "Night of the Living Dead" series movies; old and remakes.

It is like he "likes what HE likes" and I had "better" like what he likes, he has been told "no thanks" a few times but had taken it so personally that he dysregulated to where I refused to watch any tv or movies with him for a few months. Now I ask "would you like to see a movie?" and I suggest one that I would like to see. He has the right to "say no" and I sit and watch it with my son on the big screen while he plays his video game... .  works out for us.

[Wrongturn1]

Oh - and the ongoing work:  Taking the responsibility to prevent any resentments from building up.

Yeeter: kudos to you for approaching your life in a deliberate way!  Ah yes, resentment... .  I've been thinking about this one lately since it is easy to build up a lot of resentment as a non.  What strategies are you using for this?

[yeeter]

Yeeter: kudos to you for approaching your life in a deliberate way!  Ah yes, resentment... .  I've been thinking about this one lately since it is easy to build up a lot of resentment as a non.  What strategies are you using for this?

Aiiiyaiyai - a tough one Wrong.  I think the first thing is to challenge myself whats there.  And if Im having negative thoughts towards her, I ask myself why - and whether its about the here and now, or if there is something underlying from the past that is making it worse (history affects the present!).

So by being cognizant of it, I can very deliberately segregate which pieces to process that are here and now, and block/ignore/take off the table those that are leftover from some past.

Then to let go of the past is the acceptance part like everything else.  Something I have accepted as reality, and CHOSE to stay anyway.

It comes back to grounding myself on why I CHOSE to stay.  I still have the choice to leave... .  but when I recook it I still choose to stay.  And part of that choice is ACCEPTING its not ideal, yet net net is that the overall was a decision tipping favorable to staying as the best path forward.

Owning the CHOICE, makes a big difference.  Often times if I am feeling resentment due to it being unfair, I find its because underneath I am blaming her for my unhappiness - meaning I havent fully truly accepted her for what she IS. 

There is some saying here ... .  pain + unacceptance = suffering

but if you can get to a point of acceptance, you can endure all kinds of crazy pain without it being ongoing suffering (like when someone dies - you grieve, you move on).  And its the acceptance of the choice made - as the best option given the constraint set.

I spent a long time stuck in looking for better answers to choose from, which was preventing me from actually making that choice and moving on with managing/living my life.

(I know, a long rambling response but its a really tough one and still not sure I have really clear and concrete answers).  Anyone else care to chime in?

[Wrongturn1]

... .  Often times if I am feeling resentment due to it being unfair, I find its because underneath I am blaming her for my unhappiness - meaning I havent fully truly accepted her for what she IS. 

This is really insightful - If I blame my uBPDw for my unhappiness, then I'm behaving exactly as someone with BPD would... .  which I try to avoid. 

To summarize my thoughts on resentment and how I attempt to prevent it, the issue boils down to 2 main points for me:

1)   Resentment can often result from allowing people to overstep our boundaries.  If I remain firm and enforce my boundaries regarding what kind of treatment I will accept from others, it tends to prevent resentment from building up.  This is not limited to enforcing boundaries with my uBPDw – could also include family, friends, co-workers, etc.  So when I start to feel resentment, one of the first things I ask myself is, “have I been negligent in enforcing my boundaries?”

2)   Other times, resentment can stem from a sense of injustice (“it’s not fair that my uBPDw drags me down by doing XYZ”), and in the case of BPD and injustice, your point about acceptance and intentional choice is the key.  Once we come to understand the disorder and that we have a choice of whether to leave or to stay and accept the person and all of their inevitable BPD “quirks”, we take ownership of the situation, and the responsibility for the conditions we face becomes our own (it always actually was our own, but now we realize it).  The acceptance and ownership of the situation empowers us a great deal and creates a healthier dynamic where resentment is not allowed to grow.   When the disorder unexpectedly rears its ugly head these days, I often recite the following saying silently to myself (I think this came from someone on this board, I forget who it was):  “I have chosen to stay in a relationship with a person who suffers from a severe mental illness.”  I could go on about how this acceptance also helps in the areas of walking on eggshells, covert contracts, comparing our situations to those of others, etc., but I’m trying to be brief.

[yeeter]

When the disorder unexpectedly rears its ugly head these days, I often recite the following saying silently to myself (I think this came from someone on this board, I forget who it was):  “I have chosen to stay in a relationship with a person who suffers from a severe mental illness.”  

Funny Wrongturn... .  that was me that threw it out a while back after a particularly tough morning  (and to chant it 5 times):

I have chosen to stay in a relationship with a person who suffers from a severe mental illness.

I have chosen to stay in a relationship with a person who suffers from a severe mental illness.

I have chosen to stay in a relationship with a person who suffers from a severe mental illness.

I have chosen to stay in a relationship with a person who suffers from a severe mental illness.

I have chosen to stay in a relationship with a person who suffers from a severe mental illness.

Or maybe you knew this and was having some fun using my own words against me... .  (something I would do to others!)   

Some good points you made there - no need to brief so drone away.  I think the hardest thing with acceptance is in areas where no, I havent really been able to create an effective boundary.  The hoarding is one example.  It definitely affects me, and so far nothing I have tried to approach the issue has been helpful.  In fact, anything even close to the topic is instant deregulation.  So I avoid it.  But then I live in the same environment, which is very stressful to me, so its a constant reminder of the choice - a choice I didnt want (to live this way) for a choice I did want (to keep my family in tact).  I can intellectually rationalize that I made a choice, but then emotionally in the day to day its really easy for negative thoughts to creep back in.

[Wrongturn1]

Ha-ha-ha!

I didn't realize you were the one who originated that chant - well thanks for that; it has helped me through some difficult moments. 

The hoarding thing must be difficult for you to deal with b/c it definitely affects you against your will.  Not directly applicable to your situation, but my uBPDw often does not clean up after herself around the house, and one way I find a measure of peace to combat this is that I keep a certain space (the top of my clothes dresser) clean and free of clutter/mess.  Is there maybe a room or some space at your place that you could keep de-cluttered and de-hoarded to perhaps let you feel like you have some modicum of sanity in your physical environment?  Maybe this wouldn't help, but just wanted to raise the idea since something is better than nothing.

[yeeter]

Oh yes, it helps wrong!  For me it's the top of my bedside nightstand (even though I don't sleep there anymore... .  It's still 'my' space.  That, and a bowl where I can sit my keys an wallet very night and they won't get buried under the piles.  And a workshop that is pretty much however I want it. Which ironically at this moment, is a complete mess!

Just little things piece by piece. The workshop is a boundary since she wants to store other household stuff there, but as soon as that happens it will tip over the apple cart.