The blame game

[daylily]

It's been no secret that my UBPDh has been unhappy with our marriage for some time.  I know that this is standard for pwBPD, so it's not like I'm surprised, though it does make me sad during my weak moments.  What did surprise me is his most recent explanation of why he is unhappy IN OUR MARRIAGE.  The conversation went something like this:

H: I am not happy in our marriage.  It definitely has not turned out well for me.

Me: Why is that?

H: I have been stagnant in my career.

Me: I understand that has been hard for you, being the educated and intelligent person that you are.  It would be hard for me too, if I was in your position.  How do you feel that our marriage has caused that?

H: You make so much money that it makes me complacent.  I don't need to do anything, so I haven't.  If I would have married someone else, I would have had to support the family and that would make me focus on my career.

Wow, he's blamed me for everything under the sun before, but this is new.  The reason he hasn't developed his career is really my fault because I've been supporting the family.  I have validated his feelings of inadequacy about not contributing financially to the family's support and noted how appreciative I am of the contributions (non-financial) that he does make.  This is usually met with the "You're all talk" objection.  What action am I supposed to take?  Quit my job so we can suffer a little and make him do something careerwise?  Sigh.

One of the problems careerwise has been that he takes one path, then changes his mind partway through and pursues something else.  Nothing ever gets done.  He has said before that he needs me to do things for him because he is depressed and lacks initiative.  How do I light the fire under him without doing everything for him?  In the past, I think I've done too much - preparing cover letters and his resume, proofreading his emails to potential employers, etc.

  Daylily

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[briefcase]

Sometimes, there is no logic and we just have to   (to ourselves, of course). I doubt he really believes what he says.   

I thought you did a great job in the conversation.  No JADE, yet very validating questions were asked. 

I'm tempted to suggest that if he keeps saying this that you stop paying for some of the things he wants, but I think validation is probably the way to go. 

It does sound like he has some depression. 

[waverider]

Is it said in an accusatory way, or is he just saying that is the way it is?

Its the all or nothing. Either HAS to work hard or not at all. Once the "has to/ impulse / urgency" component is taken away there is no drive left, and everything stops

Regular folks would tag a "but thats my fault" on the end of that last statement, and it would seem a reasonable statement, but a pwBPD struggles with accepting blame, and that is also adding a touch of empathy so you would understand that it is not your "fault". Again lack of empathy prevents him even considering how that may sound to you, regardless of how it was meant.

[kl315]

Wow. That's interesting. Is it possible that he feels guilty for his level of monetary contribution? Maybe the two of you could come up with a task for him that would allow him to contribute to something important, but not critical to the financial security of the household.

For instance, ask him what he thinks about starting a college fund/investment account/home improvement fund/etc. and if he answers positively, ask if he can help you select the appropriate fund and tell him that the money he makes will allow you to do this to further ensure the family's financial security.

I obviously don't know him, but my dBPDbf was uneasy that I have paid the lion's share of expenses for the times we get together. I make a lot more than him and am of the mind that it's only money. I'd rather spend every dime on someone I care about than sit on my pile all by myself. But it bothered him. So I asked (as if I needed him to do it) if he could sock just a little extra away from each paycheck to help pay for food and other essentials on our trips. He hasn't mentioned it again and seems really happy to be contributing.

Just a thought... .  and I'm sorry you're having the other issues in your marriage.

[Chosen]

That sucks, daylily... .  you get blamed if you earn more, but I'm sure you'll also get blamed if you don't as well... .  

I think briefcase is right... .  there's no logical explanation for this, except that pwBPDs create stories to string up their emotions.  And there's also the fact that they cannot be blamed, so the responsibility must go to someone else. 

I face a lot of these "doomed if I do, doomed if I don't" situations too.  Nowadays I can't be bothered to think the "why"s to everything, it'll take up too much of my energy and give little results.

I think it's especially hard when it's got something to do with money.  My H seems to feel bad and insecure about me having more money than he does, but it swings between 2 extremes (the other being that he feels he earn much more than me- in reality he does earn more)... .  I don't like to touch on the subject of money with him.

[WindyCityGuy]

OK, I have a totally different take on this. Maybe because I have heard similar statement from my own spouse.

LAUGH - This is hilarious! 

Common, seriously. There is no way in the world you can let this statement bother you because it is so far from reality.

I have been going to Al Anon, and it has really helped me to understand that these people truly have a disease. It's a sickness that they can't help. But we can help our reactions to it. We can make ourselves immune to their disease.

My wife has said to me that she pays for everything and I pay for nothing. Of course, she doesn't work and I pay for the house, the cars, the insurance, the medical, the vacations, shall I go on? I used to get mad that she would make such outrageous statements. Not I barely even listen to them. I certainly don't reply.  I DO, STRONGLY., consider her demands for divorce.  But I definitely laugh, because it's funny.

BTW - I am fairly new here so I need to ask, What does UBPD and pwBPD stand for?

[Chosen]

Hi WindyCityGuy,

u = undiagnosed

pwBPD= person with BPD

So what would you answer besides laugh in this situation?  How do you prevent being dragged in such an argument/ discussion?

[daylily]

Thanks, everyone!  Well, guess what?  As I was writing my original post, I was awaiting my year-end evaluation from my boss.  I got a pay cut for the first time in my life!  Many people in my office are taking pay cuts because of the economy and the office's financial issues right now.  The reaction to this from my H was predictable.  Chosen hit the nail on the head - instead of saying, "hey, this gives me the drive I need to get a job" he blamed me for the pay decrease!  He said I should have worked harder last year so this wouldn't have happened.  (Of course, during the year, he was begging me to come home early so he could be relieved from ":)addy duties."  

After a day or so, he seems to be out of the funk and into the motivation now.  He's been obsessively on the computer finding jobs to apply for.  It's the "all or nothing" that Wave was talking about.  I just hope it doesn't fizzle out if the first few applications aren't successful... .  

  :)aylily

[daylily]

Wave - in response to your question, it wasn't accusatory.  Just a "that's the way it is" type comment.  "I just have to deal with it.  Whatever."  (His favorite word seems to be "whatever," sometimes I feel like I'm married to a teenager!)  The rages are few and far between now, but the comments continue.  Unfortunately, the fact that he's so calm about it almost gives what he's saying more credibility.

[daylily]

kl315: I don't know that he feels guilty, more inadequate.  He stays home with the kids and I think he feels like that's not a man's job.  Hopefully he will be able to get a job because that will help on the confidence front and the monetary front.

[Somewhere]

LAUGH - This is hilarious! 

Common, seriously. There is no way in the world you can let this statement bother you because it is so far from reality.

YES!

I have been going to Al Anon, and it has really helped me to understand that these people truly have a disease.

Me, too!  Great stuff!

It's a sickness that they can't help. But we can help our reactions to it. We can make ourselves immune to their disease.

My wife has said to me that she pays for everything and I pay for nothing. Of course, she doesn't work and I pay for the house, the cars, the insurance, the medical, the vacations, shall I go on? I used to get mad that she would make such outrageous statements. Not I barely even listen to them. I certainly don't reply.  I DO, STRONGLY., consider her demands for divorce.  But I definitely laugh, because it's funny.

Did once out loud.  Very Bad reaction.  Oh well.

[AJMahari]

It's been no secret that my UBPDh has been unhappy with our marriage for some time.  I know that this is standard for pwBPD, so it's not like I'm surprised, though it does make me sad during my weak moments.  What did surprise me is his most recent explanation of why he is unhappy IN OUR MARRIAGE.  The conversation went something like this:

H: I am not happy in our marriage.  It definitely has not turned out well for me.

Me: Why is that?

H: I have been stagnant in my career.

Me: I understand that has been hard for you, being the educated and intelligent person that you are.  It would be hard for me too, if I was in your position.  How do you feel that our marriage has caused that?

H: You make so much money that it makes me complacent.  I don't need to do anything, so I haven't.  If I would have married someone else, I would have had to support the family and that would make me focus on my career.

Wow, he's blamed me for everything under the sun before, but this is new.  The reason he hasn't developed his career is really my fault because I've been supporting the family.  I have validated his feelings of inadequacy about not contributing financially to the family's support and noted how appreciative I am of the contributions (non-financial) that he does make.  This is usually met with the "You're all talk" objection.  What action am I supposed to take?  Quit my job so we can suffer a little and make him do something careerwise?  Sigh.

One of the problems careerwise has been that he takes one path, then changes his mind partway through and pursues something else.  Nothing ever gets done.  He has said before that he needs me to do things for him because he is depressed and lacks initiative.  How do I light the fire under him without doing everything for him?  In the past, I think I've done too much - preparing cover letters and his resume, proofreading his emails to potential employers, etc.

  Daylily

This is a good example of how your pwBPD lacks a stable sense of his own identity and his own sense of personal responsibility. It is not uncommon for many with BPD to blame others and to mix issues. He likely really doesn't know what he wants to do or is best at or most interested in because he really doesn't know who he is. It is this unstable sense of self that leads to such waves of incongruence and inconsistency. The amount of money you do or don't make is just what he "blames" for his own (likely subconscious) lostness. Perhaps he has been triggered (not your responsibility) back to a learned helplessness of sorts or to a degree of it because he may have felt enabled to continue on as he has by the fact that you have had it "taken care of" so to speak.

This is a prime example of a no-win situation. When he attempts to blame you and box you in like this, it is best, to validate (as you did in the initial conversation) what he is expressing about how he is feeling. It can be frustrating to be in no-win situation. What can be very helpful is to radically accept that he blames you. This means that you don't take it in. Let it go. Validate him. And recognize it for what it is.

It is not your responsibility, nor can you really, light a fire under him. It sounds like you might benefit from setting a boundary or limit with regard to all the help you've given when he's looking for a job. This can be enabling. He may not like it at first, but, he really, with your support, but not you doing it for him, will benefit from working his way toward preparing his own resume, cover letters, sending them out and so forth. He might rebel at first, but, your best intentions are enabling him to continue to shirk some personal responsibility. If  he isn't in therapy, he'd benefit from looking at why he keeps changing his path, and  his mind, as what is likely behind that will touch on his core issues.

[rollercoaster24]

Hi all,

Gosh, the ole money subject... I agree with having a laugh, (to yourself!)... .  

The same factors apply in my situation...

When I met my uBP, he had been unemployed almost two years... The fact that he has a degree in the mining/geological sciences makes no difference... His last job was 2008, (redundancy no less) and he has survived since then, (after spending any past assets/money on geographical escapes interstate and back several times) by staying with his parents/brother/parents/car, and then me, and back again, since then.

His excuse for not being able to be employed is valid, he cannot find anywhere stable to live, which he obviously needs. But he then fails to recognise that this is because of his own behavior... Well, on one hand he does, and then when he splits, I think he does recognise that he is difficult to get along with and maybe needs a space of his own... he says he wants to have a house with me, a place of our own, and a place for his things...

I validate all his feelings on this... but honestly, until he makes the necessary changes in his own stuff, I cannot see it happening...

In the mean time, whilst he says it is not all about money with him,  , he spends all his time nosing into what everyone else is doing with theirs... including his parents...

He also spends a lot of time justifying taking advantage of people's generosity because 'they have more than him'. This includes me... (although he does not openly admit it in regards to my generosity).

And believe me, I am not rich in any sense of the word...

I am independant, in that I provide my own home, security etc... but no man is an island either... I have told BP not to act like he hates me because I have a little more than him... I have also said, that what is the point of it all if you don't have someone to share it with?

I like giving to him in all ways, and I know in his own way, that he does have some sense of duty and honour way down under all the lack of empathy, and it shows from time to time...

BP often makes reference to the fact that he could return to his industry and make $300K per year, he rubs this in my face all the time... but then says what for, then he would simply be like all us other rich *******. Mmmmmhmmmm

So I just keep validating, but it is exasperating...

BP says he cannot find work until he has somewhere stable to live... He will not accept help from the necessary agencies, and continues to bury his head in the sand...

It is clear, (from validating his feelings every day), that staying at his parents is not good for him, even though I know that around 20% of his observations and feelings about that are perhaps imagined grievances, there is a large history of dysfunction between them all, so I know it is not suitable, or comfortable at times...

Presently he is avoiding them by living in his car occasionally, (I can never get hold of him when he does this, but am continually given excuses as to why not), staying over with me the odd time, and staying there... His Mother feeds him dinner when he is there, (at least 4 nights per week depending on her own health), but his own guilt prevents him from eating breakfast/lunch... .  he is trying to make a low impact, he says, (because he knows he has had a long time free ride)...

He cannot, and would not (anyway), stay here permanently, because I share my house at present with my older daughter and her partner. BP has it in for my future possible son-inlaw, and occasionally my daughter too... And they are not well disposed toward him staying here permanently either, given his extreme and often scary behavior in the past, not to mention the breach of their privacy from time to time, by way of reading their bills and letters... Up until Feb last year, BP was staying with us off and on, but when he instigated physical conflict with my family here, that was the end for quite some time... He refused to sit down with us all like an adult and work things out... just like he does at his parents...

I know I should not be surprised, as they often revert to childish like behavior as a way of coping with all that emotion... .  

So, the situation is stagnant... The constant, is that he regularly berates his parents to me, and my family here, then he splits into empathising, then back into rage... he lives outside his own means by sleeping in his car, and using what little money he receives from the government to buy food, cigarettes and petrol... presently he has had a little luck in selling used car parts on Ebay, (he cleans them up or paints them)... So that does help, and this is his sense of fairness at play, and rationality and maturity...

However he is still underweight, and goes without food to buy cigarettes first... then complains that he has malnutrition, and we are all greedy fat pigs/hitlers, starving him and downgrading him because he is already poor and needy... I take all this in, and just validate his feelings... although I have my limits... and it certainly takes it's toll, being his counsellor seven days per week...

I feed him when we are together, (and apart too sometimes, with a little money), I care for him, love him, validate him, give and give and give... And still, on Monday past, he turned his attack on his parents back to me... I was the enemy again... for a minute... He had been 'avoiding the oldies' by sitting in the library half the day, checking his Ebay ads, and looking at other cars (apparently)... then he left to call me from a payphone, and caught a glimpse of himself in a window... he didn't like what he saw... Hallow cheeks, skinny, undernourished pathetic looking old man, were his choice of labels... (he is 45). he mentioned walking through malls and wondering why people were looking at him with disgust... and he couldn't figure out why... (again perceived because of how he feels).

So when he called me, his voice was a snarl... he was asking me if I was aware of how bad he looks... me and all my 'friends', (he includes his parents here, because they like me because I've got the money).

Initially I was trying not to laugh, as asking me if I am aware of how skinny he is, (when I have to hear it a hundred times a week!), was a little much... Although the sound of his voice made my heart beat much faster than normal, because I just knew another attack was coming... .  it did... He asked again, if I was aware of how he looked, and I said yes, he had told me... and before I knew it, he was screaming that I was a ******murderer of him, a man, and hung up... .  I must admit, even being told to F**off, and F**you, every week to date, was nothing on hearing that said to me...

Only just that morning, when he left my place, (after he insisted he had things to do at the oldies), I had helped him out with some money, a few cigarettes, etc... and fed him on Sunday all day, buying him his favourite cheap takeaway... and making him brunch... I never begrudged him anything, even when he had just finished abusing me... once or twice, he had barged into my house, demanding to make a coffee before he had to leave... and I would always tell him that I didn't want him to leave, I just wanted us to be at peace... for a while... take a break for half an hour to calm down etc...

This starvation thing of his is like self-harming to me, and even if he doesn't deserve help, and he needs to take responsibility, I find it difficult, knowing he is sitting in his car somewhere, with nothing to drink, no food in his stomach, lonely... even no cigarettes... it breaks my heart... that a grown man can do this to himself... I know there are charity agencies out there who could help him out, and he is deserving of it, (even more than others who take advantage of such places). Oh god... .  I'm his 'other Mother'... .  

[Shaktipat]

I agree with everything that that has been said here,  my husband does the same thing. I have been told repeatedly that it's my responsibility to help him get a better job. The man is 50 years old! I also earn more than he does. Once,  he told me that he needed me to do him a favor,  he said he wanted me to take the resume that I wrote for him and get on the Internet and search for jobs and apply him for anything and everything. This was while he was unemployed and I was working full time plus overtime. I asked him,  "do you want me to go to the interview,  too? What are you going to do when they hire me? " That didn't go over too well with him,  but it was really funny to me. I guess you just have to laugh about it.

[waverider]

Bottom line is he is playing the victim and you are enabling it.

It is a form of self harm that is used to draw pain away from the deep inner turmoil he feels, by making it something real and tangible. More importantly, shareable.

It is a form of projection