She wants to change how we communicate AGAIN

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

There is nothing in the parenting plan saying how we communicate with BPDex. We finally got her to sign up for our family wizard last year, which proved to be very useful recently in court. We were able to print out messages and show what she read and when etc.

She emailed today saying she is no longer comfortable using ofw and now wants him to only use a special email address she created for him and he can no longer text. Stating she did not approve of how "ofw was excerpted and used against her in court"

There is no order. Should we just reply via ofw that we do not feel comfortable changing the communication method yet again so close to the court ordered mediation and then trial date?  How should we respond? Ideas? This will be her 5th change in mode of communication in 2 years.

[hell0kitty]

There is nothing in the parenting plan saying how we communicate with BPDex. We finally got her to sign up for our family wizard last year, which proved to be very useful recently in court. We were able to print out messages and show what she read and when etc.

She emailed today saying she is no longer comfortable using ofw and now wants him to only use a special email address she created for him and he can no longer text. Stating she did not approve of how "ofw was excerpted and used against her in court"

There is no order. Should we just reply via ofw that we do not feel comfortable changing the communication method yet again so close to the court ordered mediation and then trial date?  How should we respond? Ideas? This will be her 5th change in mode of communication in 2 years.

[hell0kitty]

Oh, and she dropped her contempt charges, hearing was supposed to be on thurs. most of our response and evidence was printouts of our family wizard and texts.

[hell0kitty]

One last thing. If we did go for her gmail idea, can you think of lgl pros and cons using that vs OFW?

[Matt]

Just brainstorming... .  I've never used OFW, though I've heard it's good... .  

My thinking would be that as long as everything is written - like e-mail - and you keep copies of everything, it should work fine.

I don't know why she wants to set up a special e-mail for him.  And I don't think you guys have any obligation to make changes just because she wants to.

One way would be, "We will continue to use Our Family Wizard."  Then just keep using it, and document that she is no longer using it.

Another approach would be, "If you want to e-mail me, my e-mail address is Matt@Whatever.com."  Ignore the "special" one she set up.

I would probably not use the "special" e-mail she set up, unless you are a computer expert and you know what tricks it might involve.

In any case, you can submit whatever she writes as part of the court process.  If she doesn't like it that's her problem.

And you might want to file a motion, or amend one you've already filed, to get the communication method established by the court.  So she'll have one less way to jerk you around.

For sure don't talk to her (much) by phone, and not at all face-to-face.  A written method that creates documentation is surely best.

Maybe one legal aspect is what you said about how you were able to "show what she read and when".  With e-mail, you might be able to set it up that she has to click on "Accept" to read it - or something like that - so you get a return receipt when she reads it.  But I'm not sure it's very important;  if you send an e-mail and she doesn't read it, that's on her not you.  If her whole case is based on "But you can't prove I read what you sent me!", she's going to look pretty bad.

[livednlearned]

That's bizarre.

It's ludicrous that anyone would create an email address for someone and expect the other person to use it. That is crazy thinking even for a crazy person.

And clearly, email communication can be used against someone in court, as much as OFW. Was there anything in particular about the way OFW timestamped things to make her think it was different than regular email?

Does she have to pay anything for OFW?

Why respond to her at all at this point? Ask her to direct all of her questions to her L. It's hard to do, but it lets you avoid what is likely to be an inevitable pissing match.

[hell0kitty]

OFW shows every time she logs in and looks at messages and ignores them. It tine stamps everything. It also shows when stuff is read. She doesn't have that with gmail, and that is what we used against her in court. Proving she refuses to communicate.

[hell0kitty]

It costs $99 per year, but she still has until may before it expires.  We wrote it into the temp plan that we are going to trial for, I believe she is trying to change it before trial so she doesn't get stuck keeping it by a court order. We've been advised that it will likely be written in since it is what we've been using for almost a year now.

[withBPD]

I agree with Matt and have her communicate if you guys via your email account.

Possible reasons I can think of her wanting you guys to use the email account she created is that she can hi- jack the account after its been used a few times by resetting your password and allowing her to log in and writing threats or other claims as though it came from you guys. Just remember that the person who created the email account has the ability to reset the password. Yes, there are ways to disprove this ill action but it will cost you guys time and money.

I wish you and your significant other the best.

[ForeverDad]

Stick with OFW.  So what if she wants you to dance to her tune?  OFW is specifically used for high conflict communication.  I can't imagine the court letting her change email providers if you're not agreeable.  Of course anything can happen in court, but you just can't bend and sway every time she blows some wind.

[hell0kitty]

How is this for a possible response?:

This is your 5th attempt to change our method of communication in less than two years.  This is unacceptable.  OFW and texting is the method that you suggested and that we have been using for nearly a year and I am uncomfortable changing this method given our pending court date.  With your constant false accusations of harassment, I feel we need to have a traceable form of communication.

I will continue to communicate with you via OFW and text regarding -child-.  I do not ever text you or email you with any other topics.  I will not change the method we already have established.

I am not comfortable discussing this further with you outside of mediation/trial.

Thank you.

[Matt]

Too long.

"I will continue to communicate with you using Our Family Wizard."

[sanemom]

Too long.

"I will continue to communicate with you using Our Family Wizard."

Yeah--less is more.  Don't give her your rationale or she will try to counter it. 

[Matt]

Too long.

"I will continue to communicate with you using Our Family Wizard."

Yeah--less is more.  Don't give her your rationale or she will try to counter it. 

Yup.

Say what you will do, and then do it.

[scraps66]

You may have to factor, anticipate, in that she just stops communicating.  I wrote in the need to use e-mail alone to document everything.  My ex then just stopped communciating,a nd using text messaging instead.  This was of course at a crucial stage in settlement.  Not communcating can be a way of controlling.

[Matt]

You may have to factor, anticipate, in that she just stops communicating.  I wrote in the need to use e-mail alone to document everything.  My ex then just stopped communciating,a nd using text messaging instead.  This was of course at a crucial stage in settlement.  Not communcating can be a way of controlling.

Yes - passive-aggressive BS.

That's one advantage of the "Say what you will do, and then do it." approach.  If the other party doesn't respond, you just do what you said you will do.  Takes away their power to road-block.

[hell0kitty]

Reading her email, it is SO obvious that it is about control.  The scariest part is, we really have very little contact with her. The only time we communicate is when it is crucial.  For instance, this week, we were just trying to get permission to get a flu shot, making sure her mom did not already get one for her, and getting her insurance card info (Which she keeps refusing to give us even though she has said 4 times this year she would send it over "soon" 

The other times it has been asking where to drop off and pick up since our parenting plan sucks and doesn't cover it.  We use the approach "If you don't respond, this is what I will do.  Dropping at XYZ at this time"

and then we show up and she is not there, won't answer the door, etc etc... .  so annoying.  She just wastes everyone's time.

I am SO happy that the judge could see this parenting plan is flawed and we will get our day in court sooner than later to get it fixed.  Then maybe we won't have to talk to her at all.  And why is she so afraid of getting text messages now? She gets maybe one every two weeks if that.  Why is this harassing? In her email she said "I am uncomfortable with how you have been communicating with me"

Also, she says he is never to text her again.  If he still uses text as a last resort, can this be used against him in court?

[ForeverDad]

My story... .  I separated and later divorced over 7 years ago.  It was a few days after I had called the police and raised the conflict to a new level.  After she was gone, I lookedin the computer browser's history of pages and saw indications that she may have blocked my email account.  Whether is really is blocked or not, I can't say for sure.

All I know is that my personal account emails to her have NEVER bounced back and my personal email account has NEVER since ever received an email from her.  Back in 2008 I once emailed her from my work account and she sent multiple responses but nothing since that year.

She once, just once, said she couldn't find a way to unblock me.  All other times she insists she doesn't have email (though I know about her MySpace and Facebook accounts which I believe require email accounts) and doesn't have access to the internet (she has a phone that connects to the internet).

My point is that she decided what she would do.  She avoided an email requirement by telling the court she doesn't have internet.  So court never pushed her to do that.  Her choice.  I deal with what is.

In your case, she doesn't want OFW any more because she found out it can be used to reveal the truth about her.  That's a predictable reaction.  If you already have OFW, try not to lose it.

[DreamGirl]

Reading her email, it is SO obvious that it is about control.

It usually is.

Even for us, it's sometimes about countrol. You don't want her dictating how you communicate with her either - being that she changes her mind every other month. Even though you don't agree with her, she's allowed to say "this isn't working for me." It's her making the unilateral decision without your consent that is frustrating.

It's why parallel parenting (and tools like OurFamilyWizard) is so effective in these high conflict situations - it keeps each household out of the other's household encouraging clear, concise communication regarding the children.  My therapist had a client who didn't own a computer and so each party wrote in a notebook that went back and forth between households at drop off/pick up.

I think this is another "issue" to add to the checklist of things to cover in the parenting plan when you go to mediation. The courts will encourage this type of communication - or other tools like Google Calendar - that will reduce conflict. She doesn't like it because then she looses the ability to be taken just at her word.

I also think that once you have a more clear cut parenting plan, the communication issues will become more and more obsolete. My husband's second time in court took care of every single argument that they had been having for the past two years based on their two very different interpretations of the court order. It addressed every single day of the year down to the minute - and then he stuck to it, not ever straying from it. Ever.

And then things got better to the point that now they can stray from it because they're able to better communicate.

I like Matt's response.

"We agreed to using OFW and it's probably best to continue doing so until we can address it at our court proceeding on the [whatever date it is]"

~DreamGirl

[hell0kitty]

OK, I think I've got it now.  Just gonna do a combo of Dreamgirl and Matts suggestion.  Thanks everyone for your suggestions!  I am so happy there is a group of people who can add input when these things come up.  My real world friends just look at me and say, "Is she crazy? Why is she SO crazy?" 

Nice to see they know she is crazy, but kind of useless when it comes to going to court etc and navigating the waters of someone who is trying to set you up to do something to get you "in trouble", especially when your kids are what are at stake!

[david]

I would not use the gmail acct she set up. However, gmail does have something like certified mail. I think it is an attachment to your email and the other party knows. What it does is time stamp it so you can show when it was opened. Yahoo doesn't have that option.

I personally would think ofw would be the way to go since it has been used and it works. I think the court would agree. I interpret it not so much as control but her being held accountable for her actions. I only communicate through email and ex has tried many times to change that even though it is in our court order. If ex calls me I send an email, if I believe her voicemail requires a response, and indicate what her voicemail said. I then respond in the same email. Doing that several times stopped her leaving voicemails for a while. Ex then started calling me from various phone numbers.

[hell0kitty]

Oh David, I feel your pain.  She constantly tells him he is NOT to text her, and then she will text him.  So it is OK for her to text him, but he can't text her.  Ridiculous.  And the worst part is the only one who really gets hurt is the child.  We only ever contact her because it is a need to know thing regarding the child.  She has missed countless fun school trips, swimming, not had a sack lunch, missed out on dress up days at school, all because her mom won't tell us and it is her house these things get sent to. If we text, instead of answering a simple, yes or no it is "I consider this harassment!" It actually takes more time to spell that out than to say yes or no. 

[david]

I didn't text much so when things started falling apart I got rid of texting on my phone. I really didn't like it so it was not a big deal for me.

I wasn't getting info about school so I went to the school and tried to resole it without, around her. At first, since she had me painted as a monster, things were not easy. However, with perseverance and the help of ex and her behavior I became believable. Now I deal with the school and don't even bother getting her involved. The school didn't like that idea at first but when they seen it working they decided to do the same. I have meetings at school without ex ever knowing. Once we, the school and I, decide on the best course of action I let the school deliver it to ex. I am not mentioned and as long as it didn't come from me everything works out fine. The principal really had some discussions with me about this but eventually they got it. It took close to two years for that to happen. During this time ex just kept helping me by what she was doing at the school.

I get the same "I consider this harassment" when I just answer yes or no too. It's funny how similar many of the stories are on this site.

What I have noticed is something Matt said many times. I have problems when I explain myself or give options to ex. I still make the mistake but am getting better at it. I still make the mistake of trying to coparent and this is when things become problematic. I am getting better at it though. Practice, practice, practice.

[Matt]

She has missed countless fun school trips, swimming, not had a sack lunch, missed out on dress up days at school, all because her mom won't tell us and it is her house these things get sent to.  

This is a problem with the school, not the other parent.  (OK, it's a problem with her too.  But the solution is with the school.)

Talk to the school.  Nice at first - maybe they will do what's right (copy both parents on everything) or maybe not.

If they don't commit to do that, ask for the name of the school's lawyer.  That will get their attention.  Make it clear that they are going to copy both parents on everything, one way or another;  they might as well just do it, and not have to be told to do it by their own lawyer.

You probably don't even have to hire a lawyer.  Just call the school's lawyer yourself and explain the situation.  "I'm hoping you can get Ms. Principal to do what she's supposed to do - send information to both parents.  If I have to hire a lawyer, I'll ask the court to put that cost on the school, and that's not how the taxpayers want their money spent."

[david]

It took me two years to help Elementary school get it. After that things worked fine. When S14 started middle school I figured it wasn't worth the effort because it took two years for elemantary. After his first quarter and me being excluded I went to the school to talk to the principal. I sensed I had already been painted black. I strongly urged them to call the principal at the elementary school and they agreed. I wouldn't leave until they promised me that. I know they probably thought ex was right about me after that meeting. However, they did call, and called me back about 20 minutes after I left. They apologized about the miscommunication and I haven't had a problem since. S14 will be in high school next year so I will be prepared at the start. It also helped S9 a lot because they knew by then who to contact.

[Matt]

It took me two years to help Elementary school get it. After that things worked fine. When S14 started middle school I figured it wasn't worth the effort because it took two years for elemantary. After his first quarter and me being excluded I went to the school to talk to the principal. I sensed I had already been painted black. I strongly urged them to call the principal at the elementary school and they agreed. I wouldn't leave until they promised me that. I know they probably thought ex was right about me after that meeting. However, they did call, and called me back about 20 minutes after I left. They apologized about the miscommunication and I haven't had a problem since. S14 will be in high school next year so I will be prepared at the start. It also helped S9 a lot because they knew by then who to contact.

I would never be that patient.  It's not my job to wait for them to "get it".  It's their job - and their legal obligation - to provide all the information to both parents.  I'd give them about two minutes of nice and then a simple choice - do their job without their lawyer being involved or do their job with their lawyer being involved.

It's totally inappropriate for a school to arbitrarily withhold information from one parent.

Of course the other aspect is, whichever parent is more involved will probably get the information.  I've been more involved than my ex with the kids' school, so I never have to worry about not getting all the information.

[hell0kitty]

Oh yeah, he volunteered all year last year and at the start of this year, he went to volunteer again and they made him do a criminal background check.  It was because she kept claiming their history of DV.  Once that came back with nothing, they have started being a little kinder. I think they are finally starting to get it.

[Matt]

At some point, it may be possible to subpoena some of the school staff, and ask them under oath what she said.  If she made a false DV accusation, that may be a crime - it is in my state - and it will surely make her look very bad to the court.  Once that is on the public record, it may be easy to get her limited to supervised visits.

[hell0kitty]

We are trying to get someone at the school to put in writing what exactly she says, but every email they skirt the issue. It is always, "She said there was a court order. Please refer all further questions to mom."  I have a feeling they are beginning to realize she was lying to them and are now worried about getting caught in the crossfire. 

[Matt]

We are trying to get someone at the school to put in writing what exactly she says, but every email they skirt the issue. It is always, "She said there was a court order. Please refer all further questions to mom."  I have a feeling they are beginning to realize she was lying to them and are now worried about getting caught in the crossfire. 

But there may come a time when it will be appropriate to subpoena them, and then they will have to answer your questions under oath.  They probably won't like it, but that's not your problem - you can say, "Gee, I'm sorry we had to do this, but it's in the kids' interest to get it all out in the open so they can be in the best situation."

[hell0kitty]

She sure is going to great lengths to win the family Wizard stand off. 

Today we get to the school and there is a "Message in the office" (This has never happened before)

BPD mom told the school to let dad know there was a script for the kid to pick up at the pharmacy.

Kid is not sick.

He texts her to tell her he has no idea what this is about.

She texts back "I have the flu, if kid doesn't take this, she could get sick too"

He texts back asking what it is

She texts DO NOT TEXT ME READ EMAIL

he reads email from her which instructs him to go pick up a RX she called in to a pharmacy on her side of town.  It is supposedly something that will help prevent the flu.  Kiddo says she has not seen a doc.  Her temp is perfect.

He gets a text ":)id you get it?"

he then gets a call from a very confused pharmacist. 

The Pharm says, "Um, kid's mom wanted me to call her ex because she has a no contact order with him? Is that you?"

He says, "Well, I am the ex, no order though."

Pharm says, "Well, anyhow, I'm supposed to tell you the RX is ready for pick up." (Tamiflu?)

He says, "What is it?"

Pharm explains it is some mix of something they do there that the doc called in and insurance doesn't cover and he will need to pay $228 to pick it up.

He laughed.

Needless to say it was not picked up. 

Interesting how she had the school talk to him and a pharm call him but could not send him a simple text explaining what the hell was going on.  Trying to prove a point or just was hoping he would pay for some $228 RX that we are still unclear on what it is.

So weird.