Self control in the face of madness

[Depression = 72% of members]

I’m quite new to this forum. I believe my partner has BPD or she at least seems to have a lot of the traits.

I have a question for the people are in relationships with someone with BPD. Basically, how do you not just totally lose your cool (and your mind and sanity) with the way they treat you? It seems you give 99% and get 1% back and take a hell of a lot of emotional abuse along the way.

I know there’s coping mechanisms like distancing yourself from things etc. E.g if the BPD person flies into a rage at you and verbally starts being abusive, you can walk out the room or go for a walk. But when you’re so worn out mentally and exhausted from the daily life with them and all the things they do to you, there must be times when you just can’t hold it in and you have to let loose and argue back? Or have you honestly found ways to get around this? I've been told by many people in my life that I'm quite laid back, but my partner just knows how to push the right buttons.

I’ve read on other posts things like it’s not personal etc but how can you not let some of the things they say/do not really (I mean REALLY) get to you and take them personally?

And what are the things stops you walking out that door, permanently?

I ask as I’ve been with my partner for five years and have taken a hell of a lot of emotional abuse. My soul feels like it’s had the life sucked out of it sometimes. I do sometimes rise to the occasion and try and stand my ground and stick up for myself, but I know from experience this just makes things worse and is probably one of the most emotionally draining things I can do as everything I say is twisted and turned and I end up trying to justify myself for some of the most crazy things ever! It’s just so hard not to sometimes!

S101

[Scotty101]

I’m quite new to this forum. I believe my partner has BPD or she at least seems to have a lot of the traits.

I have a question for the people are in relationships with someone with BPD. Basically, how do you not just totally lose your cool (and your mind and sanity) with the way they treat you? It seems you give 99% and get 1% back and take a hell of a lot of emotional abuse along the way.

I know there’s coping mechanisms like distancing yourself from things etc. E.g if the BPD person flies into a rage at you and verbally starts being abusive, you can walk out the room or go for a walk. But when you’re so worn out mentally and exhausted from the daily life with them and all the things they do to you, there must be times when you just can’t hold it in and you have to let loose and argue back? Or have you honestly found ways to get around this? I've been told by many people in my life that I'm quite laid back, but my partner just knows how to push the right buttons.

I’ve read on other posts things like it’s not personal etc but how can you not let some of the things they say/do not really (I mean REALLY) get to you and take them personally?

And what are the things stops you walking out that door, permanently?

I ask as I’ve been with my partner for five years and have taken a hell of a lot of emotional abuse. My soul feels like it’s had the life sucked out of it sometimes. I do sometimes rise to the occasion and try and stand my ground and stick up for myself, but I know from experience this just makes things worse and is probably one of the most emotionally draining things I can do as everything I say is twisted and turned and I end up trying to justify myself for some of the most crazy things ever! It’s just so hard not to sometimes!

S101

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[123Phoebe]

Hi Scotty101

We don't live together, so I don't deal with daily life.  The behaviors used to bother me a lot lot more though before realizing it's a mental illness... .    I could wrap my brain around it (took a while, but was finally able to do it), as my dad had schizophrenia and he didn't choose to be mentally ill, he simply was.

Once I realized BPD is truly a mental illness, the 'personal touch' pretty much wore off.  The reason they know which buttons to push is because we direct them right to them, by showing our own emotional reactions.  We plug right into the dysfunction.

I ask as I’ve been with my partner for five years and have taken a hell of a lot of emotional abuse. My soul feels like it’s had the life sucked out of it sometimes. I do sometimes rise to the occasion and try and stand my ground and stick up for myself, but I know from experience this just makes things worse and is probably one of the most emotionally draining things I can do as everything I say is twisted and turned and I end up trying to justify myself for some of the most crazy things ever! It’s just so hard not to sometimes!

S101

Have you heard of J.A.D.E.?  Jade makes things worse, so:

Don't Justify

Don't Argue

Don't Defend

Don't Explain

Unless it's something that is a definite deal breaker and you're willing to walk away from the relationship completely, it's best to protect yourself (and them!) by taking care of yourself in the face of the madness.  Not adding to the drama and conflict.  Know your boundaries.  Step back and do something you enjoy doing, while they take care of their own emotions.

It's super hard sometimes, we all realize it or we wouldn't be here

What's keeping you in the relationship?

[CodependentHusband]

S101,

    It's good to have you here. To answer your question, YES, sometimes I still lose it, but not very often at all. The though of being stuck in a car on a long trip when there is dysregulation is enough to make even a seasoned non's hair stand up on the back of their neck.

   Here's the thing... .  After you use most of the key tools here, and after months of hard work and practice, something magical starts to happen... .  the pwBPD's behaviors do start to improve. There is no shortcut to this, and it does get a little worse before it gets better.

   Now, when she dysregulates, I have a protocol, and it can be inconvenient at times, but my responses are so conditioned that it's no big deal.

[Scotty101]

Hey Phoebe,

Thanks for advice. Funnily enough I was just reading about J.A.D.E this morning. Straight away it made total sense. I guess the thing is actually managing to implement it though. Sometimes it's so hard and I guess that's my point. Surely people must now and then just not be able to bite their lip ALL the time even though they know it's won't do them any favours to argue back?

I think for someone who's new to dealing with a BPD person they might be able to do it a bit easier. But when you've had to deal with things for a long time it wears you down and it's really hard to muster up the effort and willpower not to get caught up in it.

Like you say, I think it does defintely help now I've realised my partner could have a potential mental illness and it's not really their fault. For years a big thing for me was just trying to understand why she would do the things she does. I just couldn't understand it or get it. I thought early on something wasn't quite right but it's taken me years to try and work out what the problem might be and I think it could be BPD but I guess unless she's actually diagnosed, I'd never totally know.

What's keeping me in the relationship? That's the BIG question I keep on having to ask myself. I have to say a big part of it is the kids. We have two young children and I simply couldn't face being away from them and I know she'd get nasty and try and score points against me with them. Also I'd be worried what might happen to them if I left as she may just get together with another guy and be the same and he could leave after a while and this could go on repeating itself.

Also, I get confused sometimes but I do think I still love her. We can have genuine good times together. But over the years it's so hard when all the effort comes from me and I get very little but emotional abuse back.

S101

[briefcase]

 

You ask valid questions that many of us have asked.  I wish there was a simple answer.  

It's kind of like being 200 pounds overweight and asking somone who lost 200 extra pounds, "How'd ya do it?"  They can tell you all about the foods they ate and their exercise routine, but the real answer is that they decided to change their life and started making different decisions that, over time, made a big difference.

We aren't perfect.  We do JADE sometimes, especially when we start out.  But gradually, the real meaning of the Lessons takes hold and it is life changing.  One day you sort of look back and realize you just ran a marathon using baby steps.  A combination of taking care of yourself, boundaries (enforcing and respecting), validation, communication skills, seperation of stuff and detachment all add up to a big difference.  

For now, I ask you to have a little bit of faith, read our Lessons, and start to really try to apply them in a way that makes sense to you (whatever that may be).  If you need to be assertive about things or confront abuse (this is usually a boundary issue), then go ahead, but learn the best way to do this.

It will seem awkward and difficult at first.  That's normal.  You won't see your partner change in positive ways right away.  Also normal.  You may feel things are actually getting worse.  Normal, again.  Stick with it and work through all of this.  At very least, you will regain control over your life, and it does get easier.        

[Scotty101]

Thanks so much for the advice everyone. I'm so glad I found this forum.

I've started looking at the Lesson section already and it looks great.

One other quick question. It all sounds pretty positive that with time, patience and putting some good research into practice, things will start to get better.

However, do people think you can drastically improve relationships and the way the non is treated just from the new things the non BPD is doing?

Or do people think that for things to really improve there has to be some kind of acknowledgement or realisation from the BPD person that there's things about them they need to work on too? I ask because if the person with suspected BPD has never been diagnosed, isn't there very little chance of them being convinced they might have BPD from their partner telling them?

And also is it possible to see real noticeable improvements in the relationship without the BPD person getting therapy?

[waverider]

Several aspects. Yes it would ideal if they were open to diag and treatment, then do the hard work and substantially change. But that is the minority.

Can you change them by using the tools? No

You can stop making it worse from your end by reducing the fuel you pour onto it. You can substantially reduce the negative impacts the behavior has on you. You can learn and accept they are not, and never will be "normal'.

You can learn to have better control of conflict times and hence be less afraid of them. Reduce the frequency, intensity and duration

So yes you can improve the RS, even if you cant change them.

It does take a long time to first truly understand it, through knowing what you should have done in hindsight, then it becoming consolidated to the point you can respond correctly at the time. Eventually you will change YOUR personality to the point you can respond more appropriately by instinct. But these steps take time

You will still stuff up occasionally, but thats life, its never perfect, you learn to accept that too

[Rockylove]

Hi, S101!  I'm relatively new here, but already have found this forum to be the best place to ask questions, share thoughts and gain knowledge on how to deal with what I suspect is BPD in my bf (also undiagnosed and likely not ever to be).

You mentioned that your gf is button pusher.  My bf is too, but through reading all that I can get my hands on, I've been able to gain insight as to why I respond the way I do to his nasty insults.  That may never stop him from slinging his hash at me, but it certainly helps me not to take it all personally.  I made it a joke in my mind that may sound ridiculous, but it helps me... .  when he's raging and cussing at me, I think of someone with Tourette's Syndrome... .  they can't help spewing cuss words either!  I equate that to the age old solution for stage freight... .  Think about the audience in their underwear!  It may sound silly, but it works.  If you can imagine your gf in another way besides being angry at you (because she most likely isn't anyway) it may help dissipate the emotional attachment to her words. 

I fall back more often than I'd like to admit... .  I'm not THAT enlightened, but I can see that it's worth the effort for my own self esteem to keep trying.  I don't stay with my bf for "the kids" as ours are all grown... .  I stay with him because he's fundamentally a really wonderful person that has issues... .  but don't we all?   

I'm finding solace in knowing that I can come to this forum for insight, suggestions and relief.  I hope you find the same here.

[123Phoebe]

do people think you can drastically improve relationships and the way the non is treated just from the new things the non BPD is doing?

Yes, I believe so.  When you (we) do something different, let's say, we don't stick around for insults (a boundary), and tell the pwBPD that 'the snarkiness isn't appreciated, I'm going for a walk (mow the lawn, whatever... ) and will be back later'... .    It teaches the pwBPD what we will and won't put up with.  It shows them where our boundaries are by detaching with love.  We're not making the situation worse and we will be back.  While they have the time to work through their own emotions.

Or do people think that for things to really improve there has to be some kind of acknowledgement or realisation from the BPD person that there's things about them they need to work on too? I ask because if the person with suspected BPD has never been diagnosed, isn't there very little chance of them being convinced they might have BPD from their partner telling them?

The untreated pwBPD may have moments of clarity, but that clarity cannot be sustained; it's the nature of the disorder.  When they become dysregulated (triggered by something) the pervasive behaviors will appear.  So, telling them they have BPD isn't recommended, as who wants to hear they're mentally ill?  That will for sure cause dysregulation and a myriad of other defense mechanisms, unfortunately; they just don't have the coping skills or insight.

And also is it possible to see real noticeable improvements in the relationship without the BPD person getting therapy?

Short answer: Yes, it is possible; there is hope!  When we get comfy within ourselves and our new ways of communicating our desires, our BPD loved ones begin to trust us more and this invokes change on their part as well.  Consistency is very important and all of this takes time and true effort on our part.  What I've found is that while I can't change or control the pwBPD (can only change and control myself), the changes on my part have in turn given the space for the pwBPD in my life to begin to change, too.

Accepting that they have this disorder is key.

Hope some of this helps, S101

[rollercoaster24]

Wow!

Thanks to all who posted here... I have read and read other's posts, read the responses to my own posts, gone away for a while (when overloaded with other stuff and no time to visit), yet being here is wonderful and has helped so many of us find community and empathy in the face of permanent struggles.

Thanks also to the board advisors, I have read your responses to others, and to myself, and yet for some reason, it has sunk in a little better today... .  (DOH!)

Interesting that you post about persons with BP not necessarily being diagnosed or in therapy, but focusing on your own input... and how things can, (and often do get worse when you are in the habit of practicing them).

For a long time now, (and even before I came to this site) I was practicing the tools without knowing I was practicing them, unfortunately, sometimes BP put me under extreme duress, where it was impossible to escape, whilst also being unrealistic, (nowhere to go at 2 or 3am!, or his car parked behind mine, and confiscated car keys or my phone). Usually, I was always trying to think ahead, protect myself, (and others if necessary) from the onslaught...

There were obviously times when that happened, that, (as I was told here), I was intermittently reinforcing his bad behavior, which is often worse... .  The mouse keeps pressing the button repeatedly for a 'treat' because he knows at some point, that he will receive a reward... It would not be unusual for him to keep pressing a thousand times a day, because at some stage, he just knows he will win that payout... .  

For me, the times when I know I am exhausted, or at his mercy, are the times I am the most vulnerable to buying into his extinction bursts/rants/rages/projection games. Just last Friday, I realised that I should have driven off home within an hour of arrival to visit him, (and stay the night).

We had arranged to meet at 8pm, and were to have takeaways together, and cuddle for the night... I could see almost straight away, how the night was going to go... Being exhausted, the idea of driving home at 10pm, (with a 40 minute drive ahead) and getting up for work again at 5am, was not sitting well with me... As I had had success before with plenty of validation, I thought that might work... No, it didn't...

The result? Neither of us got any sleep, much, I didn't make it to work, not well, and we had an argument, after I tried setting boundaries for an hour or so, and BP once again, ignored them... I knew that either way, it would not have been pleasant for me... More heartbreak, likely verbal abuse, and driving home...

I think somehow, that my lines get crossed sometimes... I feel if I don't at least listen for a while, (even if I have heard the same stuff over and over), that I feel like I am not being a supportive partner... especially to someone who is in so much pain and need at that time...

But, giving an inch all the time, only results in miles being stripped off me, and my lines all blurred... So, now, I will go back to the 20 minute boundary... Listen and validate for about that time, (maybe an hour tops). After that, I will explain that I will have to go if he does not respect my boundaries... need for sleep, relaxation etc...

Even if it means that he gets worse, and possibly dumps me and abuses me again, I will have to stick to it... less impact on me in the end, and I can retain feeling good about myself, instead of feeling like crap because I got dragged into the emotional washing machine, coming out bleached... .  

Thanks again all... .  

[rollercoaster24]

Not to mention the fact that BP will feel better about himself too!

By not having an audience, and attention for his twisted logic/thoughts, he will feel a lot better if he isn't dumping them onto me... in the end... .  

[laelle]

It helps me to know that what ever is misdirected my way is only the runoff of their emotions.  You get 1% of their fears, anger, self loathing selves while they are suffering from the other 99%.  The thing is your anger is not controlled by them, its controlled by you.  You have total control of that.  Its about changing your perspective, setting up boundaries for yourself, stop being codependant, giving them space to deal with their own emotions, and accepting them as they are.  You learn that the 1% they give back is all they have to give in their chaotic head, but they give it to you.  Its a precious 1%

When my bf gets angry and ignores me for the evening, I enjoy myself doing what I like to do.  I dont have to make it better, and its ok to say "Would I really want to be around that person while in their mood anyway?"  I will usually also post here, its nice to have an outlet.

I also stopped drinking so much coffee and I listen to relaxing music.  I cant stress enough how helpful mindfulness is.

[yeeter]

I also stopped drinking so much coffee and I listen to relaxing music.  I cant stress enough how helpful mindfulness is.

+1 on this.  As in the general sense of 'take care of yourself first'.  If you are stressed, worried, anxious, worn out, depleted emotionally - you will respond and react to the situation less productively.

Its takes a lot of patience, confidence, inner strength to be in these relationships.  Get yourself strong and healthy and your side of the dynamics will cascade over.

For example:  Ive been down with a really bad flu bug the last couple weeks.  Last night my wife announced that her aging parents might move from several states away to a place right next to us.  My reaction was 'I didnt know they were going to move next to 'us'?'  (my wife has siblings and there are other options for her parents).  But the disappointment in my voice was really obvious and this set my wife off.

Fact is, I am horrified at the thought of having my wifes parents close by (its the source of a LOT of her own issues).  I let that message out in the tone of my reaction.  If I hadnt been so worn out from being sick, I would have been able to control it and communicate in a much more productive way (knowing that this is a highly highly triggering topic for her)

So put your own life vest on first.  Keep your own self strong.  Read, and learn.