sober reflections ... giving up the lovely romance

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all.  As many of you know, I've been working on an intimate friendship with my uBPDexbf for the past 5 months.  (Which actually exceeds the total amount of time we dated or considered dating, though we'd known each other for a long time before that.  In between was 10 months of very strict NC, interrupted only once when he tested the waters & I asked him to please not communicate unless something had fundamentally changed for him.)

Here's my current report.

We are close.  Much genuinely closer than we were when we were "in love."  And I think that is the whole point of this post.  We have gotten to know each other, really.  We have seen the places we are different, explored those, pushed each other, kidded each other, and moved each other to change positions on issues important to us both.  I can't emphasize enough how different this is from the idealization/honeymoon period we were still in when he abruptly left me -- back then, we had everything in common, he said I knew him better than anyone else in the world.  There is just no way that could possibly have been true -- then.  Now, I think it is likely true, but because this is reality-based, not a romance novel.

He is very clearly not wanting me to be his romantic partner (for the first time in his life, he is single).  Nonetheless, he goes through push-pull cycles which seem to have to do with feeling he can really trust me and wants to trust me, and then fearing I will betray that trust or feeling that being too close to me will swallow him up, and he pushes me away.  We deal with it.  He comes back.  He knows I will let him come & go (thanks to some excellent advice on this board that cuts against a lot of the standard r/s advice about such things).  Somehow because we are not "dating," this doesn't feel like he is betraying me, the way it would if he had to "break up" every time he pulled away.  That, more than anything, is why I am glad we are on the "friends" side of the line -- what his emotions drive him to do does not violate the terms of our relationship, so we are not at war with his emotions, if that makes sense.  I know he could not sustain an avowedly romantic, sexual r/s right now.  He would disintegrate in days or weeks.  It is obvious.

I think he has never had a romantic relationship, including ours, that did not threaten to swamp his fragile sense of himself.  Finally, at age 50, and as far as I know without therapy, he is fighting to define himself without reference to another person.  And he has no experience being really intimate with another person in a way that does not swallow him up.

I have felt intense, intense longing for things to go back the way they were before.  For him to want me the way he did before.

Tonight, driving home from another remarkable evening drinking tea with him & discussing a myriad of things that really matter to us both, it dawned on me for the first time that this is better.  It is deeper.  It is more real.  It is not made up.  It has required work, and we have both done the work to get here, and taken risks.

There is so much heartbreak and longing surrounding him in my heart that I may not be able to stay in this place, but for right now, I would not trade what we have now for what we were doing back then.  In important ways, that prior version of us was false, based on his desperation, and how great it made me feel to be wanted and needed that badly.

This current thing we are doing is much more voluntary.  We are each choosing to show up.  We don't have to.  We are not desperate.  We just want to.

But I also have to let go of my romantic longings.  I guess that is my assignment at this stage.  They accomplish nothing.  He needs not to have anyone in that role right now, in order to figure out who he, himself, is.  It is not a loving thing to want to short-circuit that.  Who knows what we may be to each other down the road.  I am not shutting any doors, just as I am not shutting the door to the idea that I may meet and fall in love with someone else.  But for the two of us now, there is nothing better we ought to be doing than what we are doing.

Getting to this point has required the counsel of many on this board, and I am so grateful.  This is a bitter sweet moment for me ... .  I feel I am finally letting go of a dream that has motivated me for a long time.  Like I said, I don't know what's next for us, but whatever it is, it will be based on real caring and actual love.

[patientandclear]

Hi all.  As many of you know, I've been working on an intimate friendship with my uBPDexbf for the past 5 months.  (Which actually exceeds the total amount of time we dated or considered dating, though we'd known each other for a long time before that.  In between was 10 months of very strict NC, interrupted only once when he tested the waters & I asked him to please not communicate unless something had fundamentally changed for him.)

Here's my current report.

We are close.  Much genuinely closer than we were when we were "in love."  And I think that is the whole point of this post.  We have gotten to know each other, really.  We have seen the places we are different, explored those, pushed each other, kidded each other, and moved each other to change positions on issues important to us both.  I can't emphasize enough how different this is from the idealization/honeymoon period we were still in when he abruptly left me -- back then, we had everything in common, he said I knew him better than anyone else in the world.  There is just no way that could possibly have been true -- then.  Now, I think it is likely true, but because this is reality-based, not a romance novel.

He is very clearly not wanting me to be his romantic partner (for the first time in his life, he is single).  Nonetheless, he goes through push-pull cycles which seem to have to do with feeling he can really trust me and wants to trust me, and then fearing I will betray that trust or feeling that being too close to me will swallow him up, and he pushes me away.  We deal with it.  He comes back.  He knows I will let him come & go (thanks to some excellent advice on this board that cuts against a lot of the standard r/s advice about such things).  Somehow because we are not "dating," this doesn't feel like he is betraying me, the way it would if he had to "break up" every time he pulled away.  That, more than anything, is why I am glad we are on the "friends" side of the line -- what his emotions drive him to do does not violate the terms of our relationship, so we are not at war with his emotions, if that makes sense.  I know he could not sustain an avowedly romantic, sexual r/s right now.  He would disintegrate in days or weeks.  It is obvious.

I think he has never had a romantic relationship, including ours, that did not threaten to swamp his fragile sense of himself.  Finally, at age 50, and as far as I know without therapy, he is fighting to define himself without reference to another person.  And he has no experience being really intimate with another person in a way that does not swallow him up.

I have felt intense, intense longing for things to go back the way they were before.  For him to want me the way he did before.

Tonight, driving home from another remarkable evening drinking tea with him & discussing a myriad of things that really matter to us both, it dawned on me for the first time that this is better.  It is deeper.  It is more real.  It is not made up.  It has required work, and we have both done the work to get here, and taken risks.

There is so much heartbreak and longing surrounding him in my heart that I may not be able to stay in this place, but for right now, I would not trade what we have now for what we were doing back then.  In important ways, that prior version of us was false, based on his desperation, and how great it made me feel to be wanted and needed that badly.

This current thing we are doing is much more voluntary.  We are each choosing to show up.  We don't have to.  We are not desperate.  We just want to.

But I also have to let go of my romantic longings.  I guess that is my assignment at this stage.  They accomplish nothing.  He needs not to have anyone in that role right now, in order to figure out who he, himself, is.  It is not a loving thing to want to short-circuit that.  Who knows what we may be to each other down the road.  I am not shutting any doors, just as I am not shutting the door to the idea that I may meet and fall in love with someone else.  But for the two of us now, there is nothing better we ought to be doing than what we are doing.

Getting to this point has required the counsel of many on this board, and I am so grateful.  This is a bitter sweet moment for me ... .  I feel I am finally letting go of a dream that has motivated me for a long time.  Like I said, I don't know what's next for us, but whatever it is, it will be based on real caring and actual love.

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[AllyCat7]

Thanks for sharing! I'm glad you were able to get to that place with him. I know it's HARD. I tried to do that with my exBPDbf (even after he was the one who said "let's be friends" but he would always take it to the romantic level and I would let him. I guess that's where we have to draw our boundaries and not let it get there. I'm assuming that's what you may have done, but not sure. I'll re-read your old posts to find out. I would love to have this with my ex because I feel like he needs it. He needs a stable, loving, non-romantic relationship with a woman to build trust. If not a therapist, then definitely a friend. I'm glad you can be there for your ex. I know it must be hard, though, to not long for the old times, as I'm sure there were many sweet moments during idealization phase. But, as you said, that was based on illusion anyway, so why want it? A platonic friendship is worth more than fake romance.

I am curious as to whether he is diagnosed or not? And if he is seeing a therapist? Is he aware that he has BPD?If not, did you ever mention it to him? How did you help him address his issues? Thanks!

[AllyCat7]

Also, one other question. Who proposed the friendship? Was it him or you? If by you, how did you initiate it without making him feel rejected or abandoned? I'm sure the 10 months NC in between the romantic to the friendship did help. But I'm still curious. I feel that whenever I let my guy know that I'm ok with being friends, he either freaks out and tries to win me over again or he feels rejected/abandoned and shuts down on me. It's so tricky to get a friendship with opposite gender BPDs, especially exes. So frustrating. Anyway, thanks for your insight!

[laelle]

 

[patientandclear]

AlleyCat: no, he is not diagnosed.  I've skirted around the question of his issues with intimate relationships when he's given an opening, but that did not go well.  He just gets very defended and rejects the idea that there is anything "wrong" with him.  He prefers the idea that there is something wrong with, or impossible about, the idea of love.  Once I realized that was how he would handle the discussion, I asked that we not talk about romance & love -- it's the one topic that's off limits.  I don't want to hear him say how love is an illusion.  It still hurts too much -- too close to the bone.

After those few ventures I've also decided to completely give up any effort to fix him or help him, except that I help by being a companion.  I am just company -- I see him, I care about him, I listen, I don't leave.  He is the one doing the work of pushing himself to grow & change.  I don't know where it will take him & I've given up any responsibility for that.

As to how we launched the friendship ... .  well, awkwardly.  Indeed awkwardly.  After he broke up initially, he wanted to try again.  But when I said yes, on condition that he work on figuring out what went wrong the first time and how it wouldn't happen again, he got cold feet (I was a "frustrating object" as 2010 would say, I think) and we both agreed, along with his T, that he needed to try being alone.  He asked if we could stay in touch & I said yes, as I respected the work I thought he was about to embark on.  There ensued about 6 weeks of emailing and occasional in-person meetings that were hard for me because so much less than we were used to doing, but I was willing to keep it up, until ... .  he began pursuing the woman he'd dated before me who is also a colleague of mine.  Nice!  And so much for working on being alone.  I felt incredibly betrayed, couldn't stick around to watch, and told him I needed to say goodbye, though I didn't explain why exactly.  Just that if he couldn't be my partner, I needed to find my way forward, and couldn't do that while in touch.

It's taken me a long time to achieve some forgiveness about that.  Now I think I understand why it was so much easier for him to believe that the answer was, once again, he was just with the wrong woman ... .  than that he needed to look within to find the answers he was seeking from love relationships.

I got back in touch after 10 months because I learned their r/s had ended, and because -- having learned about BPD in the interim -- I thought I grasped that it is just not possible for him to sustain a romantic r/s because there are horrible triggers everywhere.  For us, that included me being kind to my daughter, which he felt threatened by (he is a survivor of pretty horrible childhood abuse), and us being super close and then me having to work hard for a few days & being not terribly available.  Bottom line, no matter what I or anyone else did, he was not going to be able to settle in to a peaceful, stable love r/s.  When I thought I accepted that, I offered to be his friend.

What I wasn't prepared for: the intensity with which he drew me in.  I couldn't help but read it as romantic desire and I think he did too, but he was at a point where he really wanted/needed not to re-engage romantically because he is trying to develop a Self that can stand on its own.  So we went through some turbulence in which he pushed me away hard, nearly disappearing for weeks, then explaining in terms of "I don't want to be more than friends."  Which I had never remotely suggested, and it hurt to be reminded of that--like salt in the wound.  With distance and objectivity, I can see that this was likely him policing his own desires and walling off a direction that, in the past, he would have taken this.  But it was hard not to experience it as rejection.  I feel like this man has broken up with me about 5 times even though we have only dated once!

Anyway, since then, we go through cycles of closeness and distance which have a distinct pattern -- we see each other in person, it's fantastic, he's super intense with me for a couple days, then it's as if he gets scared that we are too close and backs away.  I just let it settle out.  It does.  He's made comments about how much he appreciates that I will do that.

Tonight is a new step in that direction, as he is talking about moving, which in the past would send me into a inner tailspin.  Now I'm just like "where do you want to move?"  I've told him if he leaves, I'll miss him.  It's clear the space I am giving him makes him feel more able to trust me -- I am demonstrating I do not have ulterior motives, I am not only interested in him for sex or the unhealthy passion we began with.

One note: my ex experienced childhood sexual abuse and while sex with us was fantastic for me, I think it is incredibly fraught for him, the more so the closer he is to the person he's having sex with.  His abuser was a trusted quasi-parental figure and the violation of trust was enormous.  I never appreciated while we were dating how hard that was for him, and how much of it was him trying to please me, make me want him, make me want to stay.  I think not having a sexual r/s right now is critical to his sense that he is protecting his integrity, if that makes sense.  I don't know if he will ever heal enough to have a non-anxiety-ridden sexual relationship.

[patientandclear]

 to you too Laelle.  I've learned so much from you.  Your advice about accepting who he really is, taking that really seriously, and letting him know I will accept him ... .  this has been key to anything good happening between us.  Thank you.

[laelle]

Thank you patient and you have done the same for me.  I am very lucky to have a voice of reason and kindness in the midst of all the insecurities and confusion.

I think when we enter a relationship we naturally set our expectations by what we have imagined for ourselves.  I know I never dreamed I would be in this type of relationship.  I dont think I am lowering the bar so to speak, only that I am going to have a different life than I expected.  That doesnt mean it doesnt have to be a good one.

While I dont get those things exactly as I dreamed I would, I get so much more. I know that I get the best of someone who is in a constant battle with himself.  That means alot to me.

[yeeter]

But I also have to let go of my romantic longings.  I guess that is my assignment at this stage.  They accomplish nothing.  He needs not to have anyone in that role right now, in order to figure out who he, himself, is.  It is not a loving thing to want to short-circuit that.  Who knows what we may be to each other down the road.  I am not shutting any doors, just as I am not shutting the door to the idea that I may meet and fall in love with someone else.  But for the two of us now, there is nothing better we ought to be doing than what we are doing.

It sounds like some great work on yourself patient!  

I will point out one thing;  although you are stating its not right for you two to become romantically involved (which I agree!), it may very well be that he finds someone else to become romantically involved with.

Yes he needs to figure out who/what he is about for himself.  But at the same time - he may very well not.  Or lapse back into old habits (old habits die hard).  Or just someone comes along that pulls him right in.

Its probable at some point.

But if/when the time comes, be prepared to stay your course and do whats right for you.  You can remain friends even if he starts dating someone else (and in fact its a natural phase he will have to go through - as part of 'figuring himself out'

I mention this because it seems, from the undertones, that you are holding out hope that someday you would become romantically involved again.

[Changed4safety]

Yeeter says what I was thinking as well.  I'd like to one day have what you have with my ex.  I do wonder if when he starts dating again how the friendship will adapt.  I formally, finally split from my ex in mid December, he has dropped me an email saying that while he doesn't want another relationship or one-night stands, he wants a "companion" because otherwise he will continue to fixate on me.  Wise insight, not so wise way of dealing with finding a distraction--he tried this once before, leveled with the girl, and of course she said "That's fine" when secretly she wanted to have him fall in love with her and ripped him up when it didn't happen.

Anyhoo, digression--I'm just wondering if this is something I can try for myself in a while, but my ex is determined to always have someone to keep him "distracted." 

[Hopeliveshere]

Just want to share my experience that everytime I recycled / broke up with my BPDh, we dated and all the signs of BPD went "underground". I cannot tell you what a wonderful man he was; he had me hook, line and sinker.

As soon as we got back under the same roof, all, and I mean ALL of the sick behaviors returned two-fold.

I could not imagine he couldn't control all these behaviors, but now I know differently. It's part of the illness.

All the best to you. Please take care of yourself.