Why stay?

[bpdmcgee]

I've just finished reading, Stop Walking on Eggshells. Have also read quite a bit on this site, and other research. I have learned a bit about how to better handle my situation with my BPD boyfriend. I think the best aspect of my learning, is how to try and emotionally recover myself, as I have really kind of lost myself (among other destruction) in this relationship. Here is my question, along with some thoughts.

It seems to me, that the advice for staying and working through a relationship with someone with borderline, is basically: how to be co-dependent with someone without it taking a toll on you.

The large issue with borderlines of course (to an extent) basically boils down to: it's all about them, with the work mainly coming from the healthier person. Which we have all learned is an unhealthy and destructive dynamic. They already care mainly about themselves, and little to nothing about how their behavior affects others, or others feelings and needs. It is basically like trying to have a relationship with an unstable teenager (of course I am referring to involvement with an adult partner with BPD).

I can completely understand the approach of taking care of ourselves, and controlling what we CAN (within our own choices and responses) and how this can have a positive effect on not getting sucked into the quagmire. But I feel like I'm being taught to reinforce his perception that his feelings are all that are in existence and that matter--which he already believes anyway and is the root of many of his reactions.

So I'm basically being told to give him what he wants and already believes (that his feelings are of utmost importance at all times)--which I've been doing for 20 months and has led me to the unhealthy state I'm now trying to dig myself out of. Only now, I'm learning tools to do this without getting lost myself, but which still basically reinforce the extremely unbalanced nature of the relationship as it already exist. Does that make sense?

So I'm wondering, why stay? Why do others stay? What is to be gained by learning to commit (albeit in a less self-damaging way) to being co-dependant?

I love him, and he does have qualities I really like, but you know, the world is full of people who aren't like this, and who also have great qualities. They wouldn't be him of course, but... .  well... .  isn't that actually kind of the point of moving on? Why are we trying so hard? Aren't we just learning how to be stronger, healthier, co-dependant people in a dysfunctional relationship?

[Somewhere]

Easy Answer for Me.

The Kids.

They sort of understand what and why Momma had to go re-hab.

The oldest told me that if I did not stand up to Momma when she came back . . . she would run-away.  Our 8 year old boy asked me directly to hold us together.  Ok, that sets the mission.

For me it is easy to drop into a Rear Guard action -- from military training -- the Rear Guard drops back and defends the retreating army, to include self-sacrifice.  This I Shall Defend.  Total Co-De in that regard, I suppose and the Rear Guard must accept death.  But in this case I do not regard Mrs. Somewhere as the enemy, just the present carrier of the family disease.  Would love to see her healed and whole and us all embrace as a family again.

OK.  Taking care of the kids is #1.  In sane and lucid moments, Mrs. Somewhere totally agrees.  But she exploded when I took the 10 year old to Ala-Teen (kid had asked me specifically for that help and loved it) -- although Mrs. has been in AA for over 15 years, and I have been in and out of Al-Anon for 4.

I guess Mrs. Somewhere's sponsor told her to chill out and it was okay, because she calmed down after a couple of days, and I will likely take the kid again this week.

[Foreverhopefull]

I don't consider myself co-dependent.

I make a choice each day when I open my eyes to stay based on facts (i.e. He takes his medication, he  not only show up but participate in his therapy, he puts into practice the tricks and tips he learns about during therapy, he continues to work hard on regulating, as much as possible his "emotional thermometer" (got that from a book  made in Quebec, Canada that focus on being a  guide of hope for people living with an unstable, impulsive and intense person)) and the love I feel for him, for us as a unit.

We both work hard everyday to live a healthier relationship. This does not mean in any way, shape or form that I give into his every need and want. When my dBPDh is in a bad place, it's hard to communicate with him. I compare it to communicating with a 2 year old during a temper tantrum. You can talk all you want, they are not listening. Having a "broken emotional thermometer" makes its hard for them to regain their calm as quickly and easily as someone else, so it's better for all parties that you leave the room until all parties are calm.

I've been with my husband for 19 years, and he's finally got a diagnosis almost 2 years ago. I'm only starting to better understand why he acts certain ways, how he thinks and what makes him so easily unstable. I still forget that I'm dealing with BPD when we disagree or he overreacts to a situation... .  I'm sure this will happen again and again.

The fact is, that for the rest of our lifes together, we will have to educate ourselfs, we have to accept that we have a 3rd person in our marriage... .  his therapist, we will work harder than anyone else to keep this marriage a loving relationship.

My relationship include suicide attempts, not being held or told that I am loved every day because some days... .  he just can't seem to feel love for anything or anyone, that sometimes I have to be a caregiver rather than a wife or lover. That's my reality and I accept it everyday as I open my eyes.

Will I say the same tomorrow or next month or in 5 years? No one knows, it all depends of the work we have done to keep our relationship alive. I will give it my all and if I walk away for good, I will have done so with my head held high.

[yeeter]

Consider it a bit analytical, but my decision is a simple weighing pros/cons of two choices:

Stay.  Work on myself and learn how to be my own person and remain in the relationship.  Interact with my children on a daily basis (which I believe has a very positive impact on them, and helps them to develop and grow in more positive ways than if I was not around).  I get to remain in their lives significantly.  The 'standard of living'  - at least financially is higher.  

Divorce.  Have the (false) freedom to do my own thing and live my own life.  This will come with significant financial hardships.  And more importantly will displace me from my children, and subject them to being raised in a highly contentious, bitter, 'coparenting' arrangement.  The vast majority of my free time will be spent arranging ways in which I can remain involved in their lives (public events such as soccer, cub scouts, etc etc). 

I choose to stay.  

And after a year of making this choice and committing to it, it is feeling like a good one.  My interactions with my wife have improved.  We are both adapting to some things - and just avoiding other things (sometimes avoidance is a fine approach, especially when trying to 'stop making things worse'.  I started leading my own life more and more.

Neither choice was ideal - but a choice had to be made.

Good luck.

[elemental]

Can I ask, Yeeter... .  do you love her? Are you having a full marriage, with all of the intimacy? Or are you basically roomates and you are really living your own life as you can and just sorting a workable arrangement for stable living and access to your kids?

Would you possibly end up with another child?

[Auspicious]

Aren't we just learning how to be stronger, healthier, co-dependant people in a dysfunctional relationship?

Who is this we you speak of, kemosabe?

No, Staying is not about learning to be codependent. It's the opposite.

Is Staying appropriate for all situations?  Certainly not. A person can make themselves unlivable. Just as you couldn't live with a dog that was always trying to bite you, there are certain people who make themselves unsafe to live with.

[Cloudy Days]

I gotta say, the only reason I am staying in my 7 year marriage is that he is getting treatment. I didn't like the Walking on Eggshells book, I feel like the tools on this website helped me 10x more than that book did. It's not about being Codependent, when you change yourself for the better and stop being codependent is when things start getting better. Validation of the BPD's feelings are an essential part to getting along better with them, it is a lot of work to learn but I don't see it as giving them what they want all the time. Me telling my husband that it is ok to feel how he does isn't giving him what he wants. It's telling him that his feelings are valid and that he is not wrong for feeling them. That is one of the reasons he blows up is when he feels like someone is telling him he is wrong for feeling how he does. The important part for me is that he is trying to get better. I have in the past made up my mind to leave but my emotions get the best of me.I love this man, I have made a chocie to stick with him, obviously I have a choice of leaving him and finding someone who is healthy as well. I guess you just have to decide for yourself. Anyone on this board would understand why someone would say enough to a relationship with a Borderline. It takes a large toll on you. I guess you just have to decide if the goodtimes outweigh the bad times.

For me, the goodtimes are getting more and more frequent since he is in Therapy and actually working on himself. If he wasn't getting treatment I would most likely be gone. He shows me empathy and has even started Validating me. It doesn't come without some hard times too. I can't see a relationship with a Borderline lasting without both of them actually working to get better and realizing that something needs to change. I have had this conversation with my husband for years with out anything changing. It took an all out emotional breakdown and hitting rock bottom on his part to actually try to change. He broke my heart and something snapped in me. I think it takes a very large wake up call for them to want to get better. Once they figure out that it's possible to get better and have a happier life they actually try.

[LetItBe]

It's not about being Codependent, when you change yourself for the better and stop being codependent is when things start getting better. Validation of the BPD's feelings are an essential part to getting along better with them, it is a lot of work to learn but I don't see it as giving them what they want all the time. Me telling my husband that it is ok to feel how he does isn't giving him what he wants. It's telling him that his feelings are valid and that he is not wrong for feeling them. That is one of the reasons he blows up is when he feels like someone is telling him he is wrong for feeling how he does. The important part for me is that he is trying to get better.

For me, the goodtimes are getting more and more frequent since he is in Therapy and actually working on himself. If he wasn't getting treatment I would most likely be gone. He shows me empathy and has even started Validating me.

I can't see a relationship with a Borderline lasting without both of them actually working to get better and realizing that something needs to change. I have had this conversation with my husband for years with out anything changing. It took an all out emotional breakdown and hitting rock bottom on his part to actually try to change. He broke my heart and something snapped in me. I think it takes a very large wake up call for them to want to get better. Once they figure out that it's possible to get better and have a happier life they actually try.

CloudyDays, thanks for typing what would have taken me awhile to compose myself.   I could say the exact same things you did here.

Interestingly, it was through my relationship that I learned I was codependent.  Now that I've become aware of how I played a part in our difficulties (especially my discomfort with him feeling anything but happy all the time... .  and trying to fix him) -- and we both are making efforts to improve ourselves and the RS -- we are both doing a lot better as individuals and as a couple.  Having a better RS with him -- or anyone -- would not be possible if I was still behaving co-dependently.  It definitely takes 2 to tango.

[briefcase]

Your question, "why do your stay" is fair, but tough to answer the way you have it framed.

It seems to me, that the advice for staying and working through a relationship with someone with borderline, is basically: how to be co-dependent with someone without it taking a toll on you.

The large issue with borderlines of course (to an extent) basically boils down to: it's all about them, with the work mainly coming from the healthier person. Which we have all learned is an unhealthy and destructive dynamic.

But I feel like I'm being taught to reinforce his perception that his feelings are all that are in existence and that matter--which he already believes anyway and is the root of many of his reactions.

 

So I'm basically being told to give him what he wants and already believes (that his feelings are of utmost importance at all times)--which I've been doing for 20 months and has led me to the unhealthy state I'm now trying to dig myself out of. Only now, I'm learning tools to do this without getting lost myself, but which still basically reinforce the extremely unbalanced nature of the relationship as it already exist. Does that make sense?

If this is what I thought was being taught, then I wouldn't stay.  And I wouldn't encourage anyone else to stay and try our tools.  

Fortunately, that is not what our platform here is about. Our tools are not aimed at making members here "better co-dependents" or "giving the BPD what they want."  We focus on our own personal growth, which is really the only thing we can unilaterally control.  Working on "the relationship" takes two people.  We don't try to fix or manipulate the person with BPD by using these tools, althought its easy to misunderstand this.

It's true that these relationships are not well-balanced.  And your particular relationship may not be right for you.  That's okay.  Our goal here is to regain control over our lives and our decisions, including the ultimate decision about staying or leaving.  That's really what the tools do for us.    

           

[Auspicious]

It's true that these relationships are not well-balanced.  And your particular relationship may not be right for you.  That's okay.  Our goal here is to regain control over our lives and our decisions, including the ultimate decision about staying or leaving.  That's really what the tools do for us.

Stay or go, the person that we can improve is us.

Why did we choose the pwBPD?  Why was someone so unstable so appealing to us?  Why were we so willing to give up so much of ourselves?

Stay or go, simply dropping the other person and running won't fix what is going on with us, any more than them simply dropping us and running will fix what is going on with them.

[yeeter]

Can I ask, Yeeter... .  do you love her? Are you having a full marriage, with all of the intimacy? Or are you basically roomates and you are really living your own life as you can and just sorting a workable arrangement for stable living and access to your kids?

Would you possibly end up with another child?

Am I having a full marriage?  Of course not! (Im in a relationship with someone with a disorder)   Thats a subjective thing anyway, and goes at the heart of freeing yourself from 'expectations'.  There is some sarcastic saying like:  'Expectations are just a let down waiting to happen'.  Or something like this.  Clearing yourself from preconception of what a 'full' marriage is is one of the hurdles to get over.  The question is, what can, and cannot be gotten out of the relationship.

Am I living my own life as I can and making it stable and workable for me and my kids. ?  Yep, absolutely.  This is a good thing, no?

Do I 'love' her?  A tricky one.  I think in the context you might be asking, no.  (meaning if it were just me, single and we were just dating, I would pull the plug and run - but thats NOT what it is).  She is the mother of my children, and in many ways is a very capable and loving mother.  There are limitations to deal with though.  Are we soul mates?  Nope, nothing even close (and I am selective in what I do, and do not share with her).  Again, its not the long term relationship I expected - or wanted even - but its the reality of what I ended up in given the choices I made (after all - I went through the dating and asking her to marry me, etc etc - so my own ownership of the situation).  The practical here and now is... .  "now what?".  

I spent a lot of time (and T!) sorting out what got me to where I am.  A number of dynamics and several factors.  An ok exercise - but at times was a distraction from the choice at hand:  stay, or go?  A choice had to be made because not making a choice keeps you stuck and uneasy.  

As stated - the person we can improve is us.  Even if you go its worth doing the work to understand yourself, and improve your own emotional competence.  So I did this part first - thinking it would put me in a position to make better decisions.  Which I think it did (we make better decisions when emotionally healthy!).  Sounds obvious.

[Foreverhopefull]

I have to say that since the diagnostic of BPD, it took me a very long time to find somewhere that wasn't telling me I was soo wrong to want to stay.

I have read books telling me pretty much that staying was stupid, that nothing good would ever come from a relationship with a pwBPD, found sites that never talked about staying as a possibility.

At one point,  I was wondering about my own mental health for wanting to stay. That's until I found this board. It was the first time I have ever found a glimpse of hope for my marriage. I also, very recently, was guided towards another great, simple book that clearly states that it's a guide of hope.

Books and boards like this are too few when it comes to staying.

As you can clearly see, we all have our reasons to stay or leave. We have to be true to ourselfs to make that choice the right one for us.

[Cloudy Days]

CloudyDays, thanks for typing what would have taken me awhile to compose myself.   I could say the exact same things you did here.

Interestingly, it was through my relationship that I learned I was codependent.  Now that I've become aware of how I played a part in our difficulties (especially my discomfort with him feeling anything but happy all the time... .  and trying to fix him) -- and we both are making efforts to improve ourselves and the RS -- we are both doing a lot better as individuals and as a couple.  Having a better RS with him -- or anyone -- would not be possible if I was still behaving co-dependently.  It definitely takes 2 to tango.

This is so true for me too. I had no idea what I was doing before my husband was diagnosed, I also read many books that didn't really help. They left me with a feeling of, I need to leave because this will never get better. Once I realized what I was doing wrong that made things harder on me I could change them. Being codependent makes things worse, I was deffinatly completely codependent. I recognize my part in the unhealthy relationship, the relationship wouldn't have gotten this far if I wasn't unhealthy too. We have to own our flaws too, just like them. When we recognize them we can change them.

[Rockylove]

I get the sense that something recently has stirred up some discomfort in your relationship.  I usually get discouraged when I'm over tired or overwhelmed. 

You may be feeling that you are "learning how to be stronger, healthier, co-dependent ... .  in a dysfunctional relationship" but I do not.  My relationship is far more functional when I'm NOT falling into co-dependent patterns.  This may not be the "perfect" relationship, but when humans are involved... .  perfection is just not an option.

I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

[bpdmcgee]

Thanks for your responses. I understand the concept of working on ourselves--what we can control. That makes sense in any situation. Of course, this is not healthy, and more than just working on myself, is a giving up of my needs, and a suffering of my mental health, to benefit his.

Of course validation for him is important--it's important for everyone. The problem is the grossly unbalanced scale of needs being met, and the validating of his feelings... .  while I have to stuff mine down. The unhealthy thing is that I've let myself get sucked into this dysfunction. The healthy thing is that I am recognizing the damage it's doing to me, and trying to takes steps to regain my mental and emotional health.

Why Stay? I asked because it's becoming very difficult, and I was hoping for some perspective that might give me hope in this ever really getting any better. Every time I begin to allow myself to feel hopeful, and think maybe I can let my guard down and maybe trust him again, it is bashed. And every time, recovery for me gets harder, and I am beginning to withdraw emotionally from him. Good for my own emotional recovery I think, bad for the relationship though.

Detachment may help me to not be hurt and caught up in his drama as much, I am not a light switch, and can not just turn my feelings up and down, brighter or dimmer as the situation warrants. If I'm detaching, I'm growing distant. Not to mention I think my feelings are changing. I still love him, and care very much about him, but it's getting harder to say those words. I can relate to what Auspicious said about a dog biting you. Eventually you stop trusting to hold out your hand.

I can only speak for myself, but I didn't get involved with him knowing he had a personality disorder. It took a few months for me to see any sign (he was doing a lot of sneaky stuff behind my back, but I was unaware at the time). When I did see this side of him, I was three months in, and certainly at that time, I made a decision that I now regret, to stay. But I was so caught off-guard by what I saw and learned, and couldn't juxtapose it with the person I knew. I felt like walking away immediately was a little premature. Like at the first sign of trouble... .  I bail? I thought maybe it was a bad day, or a fluke... .  excuses. Now I know better. Could I go back again and do it over, I would chose differently. But here I am, and now I have grown to care very much for him. Because in many, many ways, he IS that person I knew in the beginning... .  still. With this very ugly, dark side to him. But love or not, and though I know this disorder isn't all there is to him, I want and NEED a healthy relationship, and I don't know how much longer I can hold on here.

I actually made the decision to leave a few months ago and we separated. I had surgery on my back last September, and I was only out of surgery less than one day, and he lost his mind. Went on a frighteningly intense rage. Long story short, I was laying in bed the next morning, trying to get up (I was in excruciating pain the first few days) on a lot of painkillers, and he's just standing there saying:

"just stand up, just do it". He almost looked like he hated me for being weak. Or worse, indifferent to it.

I rolled over and he comes around the bed, and says to me:

"you're not a cripple, you're arms aren't broken, just stand up".

I felt so alone and helpless and uncared for and basically told him he was a heartless ass. I HAVE NO REGRETS FOR WHAT I SAID. HE WAS ACTING IN AN APPALLING, UNSUPPORTIVE MANNER. Sometimes things need to be said.

He FREAKED OUT. Throwing himself on the floor, against the walls, screaming how he was going to kill himself and he wanted to die. He ended up breaking a couple of his own ribs.

I get myself up out of bed and go out to talk to him and survey the carnage in the house, and he says to me:

"Oh, look who got up by herself".

That's sick. He can't stand sharing "need" and attention. He has to have it all and he needs me to be there for him. To the point where he injured himself. That's only a snippet into the hell of that day. Something in me snapped. I was wracked with anxiety for weeks, crying, depressed, couldn't sleep. All this while I just had back surgery, could barely care for myself, and needed to heal and recover.

Then my father died last month, and he couldn't even give me a week to grieve before he started in with how I wasn't meeting his needs. He felt neglected. He has been such a jerk to me in the last month. I have needs too, and my surgery and my father's death, are reasonable times to have someone care about them, and put their own ~ aside a little. A week after my fathers death, he lost it about something and took off. And then he starts sending me texts, CALLING ME BY MY RECENTLY DEAD FATHERS NAME, just to try and piss me off. Who does that? It's messed up.

I have twisted myself into a ridiculous pretzel trying to understand him. Where's my understanding? If I stay, is this all I have? Validate him. Understand him. Be patient with him. Do this and that for him. While I can't even get support at times when I really need it. But hey, I have to be supportive whenever his feelings get hurt--which is almost always. Screw my surgery. Screw my dad's death. Screw MY emotional pain.

So yah, stuff's happened recently, and been happening for a while. And yes, I am trying to learn about ways to handle this situation so it doesn't drag me down into his darkness any further. Because my feelings and needs DO matter. Regardless of the fact that I have to live like they don't (depending on his mood). And if what I learn helps to defuse the situations with him, all the better. It would be nice if it worked out, but I WILL NOT live like this forever. And I do see much of the recommendations I've read about how to interact with a significant other with BPD, as continuing in a similar pattern of dysfunction, but without getting dragged down emotionally into it. IF I STAY, I FEEL LIKE I AM IN A SENSE CONDONING HIS BEHAVIOR AND SAYING IT IS OKAY WITH ME. Assuming things stay the same as they have been.

I don't know. I guess I was looking for some hope and a different perspective. I don't have kids with him, and I do not want to destroy myself trying to make a relationship work with a mentally ill person. I love him. I will miss him if it comes to my leaving. But there are so many other people out there. Not perfect. No one's perfect, certainly not me. But there are healthier people. This isn't normal. And I don't want to get so caught up in it, that it twists my barometer of what normal is. I think maybe I should start posting on the "undecided" board. Because I'm not able to say, this is okay with me. I want to be happy. I want to thrive, not survive.

[yeeter]

Hi McGee,

Some very thoughtful analysis about what you want and need.   All I can offer is, that a relationship with a person with a PD is not likely the model you have for what a relationship is all about.  I think the mental modelhas to be adapted as part of the acceptance mode.  Then figure out what you can get in other ways, and what has to just be dropped.

Keep yourself sane through this evaluation time, by taking care of your own emotional and physical health.

[Auspicious]

If I stay, is this all I have? Validate him. Understand him. Be patient with him. Do this and that for him. While I can't even get support at times when I really need it. But hey, I have to be supportive whenever his feelings get hurt--which is almost always. Screw my surgery. Screw my dad's death. Screw MY emotional pain.

You don't have to do anything. Emotional validation (for example) is a communications technique, not a moral mandate.

That's part of where shifting your perspective comes in. Nobody is making you do anything. If you are choosing to put more energy and giving into the relationship than you think you should be ... .  well, you are choosing to put more energy and giving into the relationship than you think you should be. That's something that you can examine, and something that you have the power to change.

[sotiredtoonice]

Thanks for your responses. I understand the concept of working on ourselves--what we can control. That makes sense in any situation. Of course, this is not healthy, and more than just working on myself, is a giving up of my needs, and a suffering of my mental health, to benefit his.

Of course validation for him is important--it's important for everyone. The problem is the grossly unbalanced scale of needs being met, and the validating of his feelings... .  while I have to stuff mine down. The unhealthy thing is that I've let myself get sucked into this dysfunction. The healthy thing is that I am recognizing the damage it's doing to me, and trying to takes steps to regain my mental and emotional health.

Why Stay? I asked because it's becoming very difficult, and I was hoping for some perspective that might give me hope in this ever really getting any better. Every time I begin to allow myself to feel hopeful, and think maybe I can let my guard down and maybe trust him again, it is bashed. And every time, recovery for me gets harder, and I am beginning to withdraw emotionally from him. Good for my own emotional recovery I think, bad for the relationship though.

Detachment may help me to not be hurt and caught up in his drama as much, I am not a light switch, and can not just turn my feelings up and down, brighter or dimmer as the situation warrants. If I'm detaching, I'm growing distant. Not to mention I think my feelings are changing. I still love him, and care very much about him, but it's getting harder to say those words. I can relate to what Auspicious said about a dog biting you. Eventually you stop trusting to hold out your hand.

I can only speak for myself, but I didn't get involved with him knowing he had a personality disorder. It took a few months for me to see any sign (he was doing a lot of sneaky stuff behind my back, but I was unaware at the time). When I did see this side of him, I was three months in, and certainly at that time, I made a decision that I now regret, to stay. But I was so caught off-guard by what I saw and learned, and couldn't juxtapose it with the person I knew. I felt like walking away immediately was a little premature. Like at the first sign of trouble... .  I bail? I thought maybe it was a bad day, or a fluke... .  excuses. Now I know better. Could I go back again and do it over, I would chose differently. But here I am, and now I have grown to care very much for him. Because in many, many ways, he IS that person I knew in the beginning... .  still. With this very ugly, dark side to him. But love or not, and though I know this disorder isn't all there is to him, I want and NEED a healthy relationship, and I don't know how much longer I can hold on here.

I actually made the decision to leave a few months ago and we separated. I had surgery on my back last September, and I was only out of surgery less than one day, and he lost his mind. Went on a frighteningly intense rage. Long story short, I was laying in bed the next morning, trying to get up (I was in excruciating pain the first few days) on a lot of painkillers, and he's just standing there saying:

"just stand up, just do it". He almost looked like he hated me for being weak. Or worse, indifferent to it.

I rolled over and he comes around the bed, and says to me:

"you're not a cripple, you're arms aren't broken, just stand up".

I felt so alone and helpless and uncared for and basically told him he was a heartless ass. I HAVE NO REGRETS FOR WHAT I SAID. HE WAS ACTING IN AN APPALLING, UNSUPPORTIVE MANNER. Sometimes things need to be said.

He FREAKED OUT. Throwing himself on the floor, against the walls, screaming how he was going to kill himself and he wanted to die. He ended up breaking a couple of his own ribs.

I get myself up out of bed and go out to talk to him and survey the carnage in the house, and he says to me:

"Oh, look who got up by herself".

That's sick. He can't stand sharing "need" and attention. He has to have it all and he needs me to be there for him. To the point where he injured himself. That's only a snippet into the hell of that day. Something in me snapped. I was wracked with anxiety for weeks, crying, depressed, couldn't sleep. All this while I just had back surgery, could barely care for myself, and needed to heal and recover.

Then my father died last month, and he couldn't even give me a week to grieve before he started in with how I wasn't meeting his needs. He felt neglected. He has been such a jerk to me in the last month. I have needs too, and my surgery and my father's death, are reasonable times to have someone care about them, and put their own ~ aside a little. A week after my fathers death, he lost it about something and took off. And then he starts sending me texts, CALLING ME BY MY RECENTLY DEAD FATHERS NAME, just to try and piss me off. Who does that? It's messed up.

I have twisted myself into a ridiculous pretzel trying to understand him. Where's my understanding? If I stay, is this all I have? Validate him. Understand him. Be patient with him. Do this and that for him. While I can't even get support at times when I really need it. But hey, I have to be supportive whenever his feelings get hurt--which is almost always. Screw my surgery. Screw my dad's death. Screw MY emotional pain.

So yah, stuff's happened recently, and been happening for a while. And yes, I am trying to learn about ways to handle this situation so it doesn't drag me down into his darkness any further. Because my feelings and needs DO matter. Regardless of the fact that I have to live like they don't (depending on his mood). And if what I learn helps to defuse the situations with him, all the better. It would be nice if it worked out, but I WILL NOT live like this forever. And I do see much of the recommendations I've read about how to interact with a significant other with BPD, as continuing in a similar pattern of dysfunction, but without getting dragged down emotionally into it. IF I STAY, I FEEL LIKE I AM IN A SENSE CONDONING HIS BEHAVIOR AND SAYING IT IS OKAY WITH ME. Assuming things stay the same as they have been.

I don't know. I guess I was looking for some hope and a different perspective. I don't have kids with him, and I do not want to destroy myself trying to make a relationship work with a mentally ill person. I love him. I will miss him if it comes to my leaving. But there are so many other people out there. Not perfect. No one's perfect, certainly not me. But there are healthier people. This isn't normal. And I don't want to get so caught up in it, that it twists my barometer of what normal is. I think maybe I should start posting on the "undecided" board. Because I'm not able to say, this is okay with me. I want to be happy. I want to thrive, not survive.

Amazing post... .  I feel exactly the same, couldn't have said it better myself. I cannot come to any reasonable conclusion why I should choose to stay, none of my needs matter, nor are they met, yet I cannot bring myself to throw him out. I cannot pinpoint the reason, but I search for it daily. I look forward to the day I figure it out and move on with my life.

[hithere]

So I'm wondering, why stay? Why do others stay? What is to be gained by learning to commit (albeit in a less self-damaging way) to being co-dependant?

I love him, and he does have qualities I really like, but you know, the world is full of people who aren't like this, and who also have great qualities. They wouldn't be him of course, but... .  well... .  isn't that actually kind of the point of moving on? Why are we trying so hard? Aren't we just learning how to be stronger, healthier, co-dependant people in a dysfunctional relationship?

Wow, powerful post!

I am puzzled as to why people stay... .  I guess most have mental issues of their own.

I see staying as basically giving up your happiness for the rest of your life for someone that will never appreciate it and will likely hurt you non-stop till you die.

I love him, and he does have qualities I really like, but you know, the world is full of people who aren't like this, and who also have great qualities. They wouldn't be him of course, but... .  well... .  

Well said!

isn't that actually kind of the point of moving on?

YES!

Aren't we just learning how to be stronger, healthier, co-dependant people in a dysfunctional relationship?

Not sure I understand what you are saying here, do you mean if someone stays?

[GreenMango]

4.2 Black and White and Otherwise Superficial Thinking: Everyone coming to this board comes from a very complex relationship and there are many factors for them to consider before making serious life decisions; emotional attachments, children/family members, finances, health issues, and other personal issues. Please read carefully what others say, feel free to inquire further, and offer thoughtful opinions consistent with their situation and their state of mind. For example, if a new member comes to the board, broken hearted after learning their loved one has BPD, it would be inappropriate to state that this person was foolish to enter the relationship, or is foolish for staying, and that leaving is their only option. Staying in contact, or choosing no contact with a person with BPD is an intensely personal decision, and coming to such an important decision takes time and a great deal of introspection. Each individuals process of contact is both fluid and individual, and should be respected.

Those who choose to stay do so for many reasons.  Sometimes it's the kids and providing a stable home, it can be finances, love, etc.  It's possible to not be codependent in a relationship with a person with a mental illness.  It's also possible to be codependent in relationships with other people who don't have a mental illness.

It's a choice really, many stayers have pinpointed where their part in the dysfunction lies and work on this.  It's also a combination of radical acceptance.  It isn't appropriate to say most have mental issues of their own.

It's all in what you've identified what you need in a relationship, what are the most important things, and if you are okay with it.  For each member it's different.

[yeeter]

And to take it one step further;  moving on by no means guarantees happiness. In fact, if you haven't tackled your own part, it's pretty likely that you just repeat

Again, for me, it came down to choosing between two less than ideallic choices. Life is that way sometimes

[wanttoknowmore]

BPDmcghee,

Yes... I agree with  lot of things you said. Basically,it boils down to the facts that ... are you willing and able to make that sacrifice to maintain this relationship. Do you really value this bond. Is it like taking care of your elderly,sick mother... Its not fun but you still stay and dont leave her... its like your ,say drug addicted son... its stressful but you still decide to accept that pain of remaining in that relationship. Also, some people are  blessed with greater capacity and resilience to stress than others.

In my own case, my BPD partner can be huge stress on me somtimes... I feel like running away from her... .  BUT.then, I remember the beautiful past experiences I had with her... the humor,the romance,the humanity in her heart,the fun,the devotion ... her loving and caring expressions... .  ALL this keeps me going and helps tolerate those dark and agonising days which are part of the package coming with a BPD partner. Ultimately, you are the one who need to make a choice... stay or leave. Bottomline... its your life and freedom and happiness is your birthright.

[hithere]

And to take it one step further;  moving on by no means guarantees happiness. In fact, if you haven't tackled your own part, it's pretty likely that you just repeat

It at least gives you the chance of happiness.

Again, for me, it came down to choosing between two less than ideallic choices. Life is that way sometimes

I respect your decision, just hard to understand it based on my own experiences.

Is it like taking care of your elderly,sick mother... Its not fun but you still stay and dont leave her... its like your ,say drug addicted son... its stressful but you still decide to accept that pain of remaining in that relationship.

I am not sure this is comparing apples with apples.  Number one this would be a blood relative and the abusiveness would probably not be there.  That for me was the kicker and deal-breaker.  I was willing to put up with the chaos and the wild swings in emotions but the abuse was not tolerable.

[yeeter]

I respect your decision, just hard to understand it based on my own experiences.

Thank you for respecting my choices.  It wasnt something that was done lightly, nor quickly.  It took a period of about two years of decision making, a lot of T, a filing for divorce, several failed MC attempts, CPS visiting my house and interviewing all my children, etc etc.

In the end - for me - I decided that if I really applied myself and put all the resources and abilities I have to learning and adapting, that I could make the relationship tenable and still remain in my childrens lives on a daily basis.  Having a positive impact on their lives was something I wanted for myself.  And the crazy, bitter, contentious coparenting relationship that I knew would be the case if divorce - in my end assessment - would be damaging to my children.  When I visit the parenting after divorce board - its really clear what my life would be like for me and my children.

I was willing to put up with the chaos and the wild swings in emotions but the abuse was not tolerable.

By no means do I advocate staying in an abusive relationship. 

[hithere]

By no means do I advocate staying in an abusive relationship. 

Raging, screaming, swearing, devaluation, kicking you out of the home, marital affairs... .  isn't that part of most dysfunctional relationships with BPD's?  I have seen a few posts where the BPD's simply go silent but not many.

[Auspicious]

Raging, screaming, swearing, devaluation, kicking you out of the home, marital affairs... .  isn't that part of most dysfunctional relationships with BPD's? 

No (well, except "devaluation", but that's a very broad category and can occur in cycles). Those things you list are part of some relationships with pwBPD, but by no means all.

The core features of BPD are those listed in the DSM. Those can manifest in many different ways. And those can change over time, for the same person.

Nobody at bpdfamily.com advocates "tolerating abuse", and none of the tools we teach involve "tolerating abuse". That's a common misconception, but it is a misconception.

[hithere]

Auspicious thanks for clearing that up but I still feel like most posts I have read here seem to include one or more of the abusive behaviours I have listed.  I seem to see these on the staying boards as well.

[Auspicious]

Auspicious thanks for clearing that up but I still feel like most posts I have read here seem to include one or more of the abusive behaviours I have listed.  I seem to see these on the staying boards as well.

Can't offer you any statistics. Can say that my repeatedly diagnosed wife never cheated, screamed, swore, or kicked me out of our home. She did run off, repeatedly overdose on prescription meds, want and not want a divorce, etc.

BPD is a distorted way of thinking and handling emotions, not a set of specific universal behaviors. Behaviors are expressions of the distorted thinking and poor emotional control.

[yeeter]

Hi hithere,

The title of your post was - why stay?

I appreciate that you asked, because it gives some visibility to the different reasons why those of here DID choose to stay.  For sure, there ARE reasons (sometimes good, sometimes not so good... .  but that is just part of sorting ourselves out and the board is here to help us)

Some of your comments are more statements than questions however.  Nothing wrong with that per se, as long as when an explanation is given that you are genuinely open to listening and learning from that other members perspectives.

Its a wide ranging, and complex topic.  Thus, generalizations are seldom applicable to any one situation.

For sure there are instances of abuse here.   As is the case with other relationships that dont involve BPD's.  Any initial triage is aimed at stopping abuse, and much of the guidance is aimed at preventing any further abuse.  But just as certain, not all cases here are abusive ones.  And although BPD's have higher emotional swings, some amount of these behaviors can be found in any relationship.

So its about peeling back the layers and understanding what can, and cant work for the individual.  (at least that is what it was for me).  Was I abused?  Sure was.  But I am recovering and have learned skills to prevent additional abuse.  The abuse has stopped at this point.  So in that sense the environment has changed and yet Im still in the relationship.

I dont know if any of this is helpful to your understanding... .  feel free to ask any questions you like.

[hithere]

yeeter thanks for your input and I am glad to hear the abuse has stopped in your case.

I figured my statements were OK in this thread due to the fact it is posted on the Undecided board, I would not have expressed them in the Staying forum.

I guess for me and my experience BPD and abuse were basically one-in-the-same.  From reading hundreds of posts on this forum it seems some abuse is part of a high majority of cases, I would be curious as to the numbers but I don't think the post creation process even allows you to run a poll?

So I am correct in thinking that if someone wants to stay but is being abused it is the stance of the senior board members to help them set boundaries for stopping the abuse and then to work on staying techniques?

I find this topic fascinating as I am sure most members do because I have asked myself this question so many times during and after my BPD relationship.