Really struggling...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

i feel you my friend. i just made 8 weeks of no contact with my BPDgf. it hasn't been easy to go "cold turkey" but i know its the best thing for me. we need to heal our own wounds. remember they won't change. there's something out there better. stay strong my friend. know there's me and others going thru it just like you.

[stevenq]

i feel you my friend. i just made 8 weeks of no contact with my BPDgf. it hasn't been easy to go "cold turkey" but i know its the best thing for me. we need to heal our own wounds. remember they won't change. there's something out there better. stay strong my friend. know there's me and others going thru it just like you.

[trouble11]

Hey Gus  ... .  I think it's always important to remember their words mean NOTHING.  We know NOW when they said they loved us, it wasn't what we thought, yet sometimes when they say something mean we let it get to us.  The truth is there is no more TRUTH to the mean crap than there is to the nice crap.  It's just what they do and it's ALL crap. 

[GustheDog]

Hey Gus  ... .  I think it's always important to remember their words mean NOTHING.  We know NOW when they said they loved us, it wasn't what we thought, yet sometimes when they say something mean we let it get to us.  The truth is there is no more TRUTH to the mean crap than there is to the nice crap.  It's just what they do and it's ALL crap. 

Hey trouble11 - thanks for the kind words.  I know it!  The bit I posted above happened months ago, and, no, I don't take it personally.  But I did at the time.

I just had to share in relation to the, "How do they sleep at night?" remark.

Apparently, they sleep like babies.

[Consumed]

Dave, Hold yourself up,  you are worth more than that eventhough we were not treated like that. It does not seem like human beings should be able to behave the way they do. We were good people before them and we remain good people. We have had relationships that were not meant to be. We are responsible for us and us only, but we are responsible. I did take responsibility for anything I did that was messed up. I'm not perfect just like any of us but, I am not willing to take responsibility for a 43 yr old adult that handles any amount of uncomfortableness like an out of control 10 year old. There is a lot of misery in the wake of that boat and I'm part of that wake. I have been trying to find some sense of all this. I have to find some way of saving myself. This site is a huge part of that and getting back to spending time with my friends and talking to them till their ears bleed. I have to force myself to be aware of how i'm feeling and not put myself down. I am trying to convince myself of this also while i'm typing. This is the 1st day of the rest of our lives. It will take a while to get over this, believing we will someday and being patient with ourselves, also realizing not much is going to feel right or be right. We have a great start by NC. There are people that are suffering with this right now that are feeling the same way I have felt for the past 2 years who don't know a way out. I left a 5 yr old boy that I love so much and I have to somehow live with that. I loved her with everything I had and showed it. I always thought and proved to her that love is a verb amongt a bunch of other things. Dave, we can move past this. We deserve it. They will go on and lie to someone else, maybe not at first, but it will show, just like it did with us. But it's not a competition, we just have to save ourselves. We don't have to sell our souls for their happiness. Everyone is responsible for their own happiness. That includes us... .  Somehow. Thank you for letting me type all this. It helps me so much.

[Dave44]

This is hard Dave.  Hows the other things, family and friends, in your life right now?  Can you lean on them for support.

Non existent... .  

I also just found out yesterday she is on a dating site. This is after telling me at least half a dozen times while dating her that "This is it. If we don't work out I'm done. I will never date again, ever. I just couldn't do it"... .  

[GreenMango]

Lots of contradictions there with her.  Seeing that dating profile had to hurt.  Is there a way to protect yourself from running across this stuff at least for a little while until you are feeling a little stronger?

What's up the family and friends?  Did the relationship end up isolating you from them?

[jaird]

Im sure there is a clinical answer to why.  It might not make any of this feel ok.

The lack of empathy and inability to deal with shame is the first things that come to mind. 

This is hard Dave.  Hows the other things, family and friends, in your life right now?  Can you lean on them for support.

Dave, I am going through the exact same thing. I was cut completely out of my ex's life in a matter of 3-4 weeks. I was told numerous times via email that she was unhappy with the relationship and wanted out. On top of all that, this happened as I am undergoing separation from my spouse, and was planning to move to be closer to the ex GF. I even asked the ex GF just to be there for me as far as the move, help me find an apartment, help me pick out some furnishings, see me for dinner, just be a friend. I was told, as she has said in the past, that she has plenty of friends (other women she has known for years) and she does not need me as a friend, SMH.

This is a person that I was there for, often for hours every day, listening to her and consoling her as she went through her own separation, he ex husband moving out, being alone in a big house, numerous problems with her adult daughter, her divorce, her moving to an apartment. I even went to see her when she moved and stayed with her so I could help with the movers, the electric company, the cable company, and all that while she went to work.

All I can tell you is, keep reading these boards and forums, and realize how insidious BPD is. You will read stories upon stories of cold behavior that is similar to what your ex, and mine, is doing.

When she first diagnosed herself with BPD, after her daughter's therapist told her that it sounded like her mom had it, my ex, had it, I thought it was an issue, but not insurmountable. I believe that by being there for her, by loving her, and maybe with a little therapy, we could get through this and be happy as a couple, which is all she claimed to have ever wanted. She even sent me a book on loving someone with BPD, and steered me towards the online test for BPD. I took the test two or three times as her, and got six positive answers. The book was so depressing that I couldn't even read past the first 60 or 70 pages. She stories and the people with BPD in the book were so horrendous. I thought my ex was nothing like that, nowhere near that bad. I was wrong.

All I can do is tell you to try no contact. Vent on these boards, and see her for who she really is, a very disturbed person who will most likely never be compassionate and loving.

I would you suggest you stop groveling, if you are, go no contact, and remove her from your phone and thereby lessen any desire to text her in order to say hello or ask for consideration or understanding. She will probably never give you either one of those anyway. It's not really her fault, but she is incapable of those emotions, or at least mine was.

It's time to heal.

[jaird]

I feel like I'm nearing rock bottom. Over the past couple of days I've uncovered so many lies. Lie after lie after lie after lie after lie. I'm not exaturating when I say the only thing she didn't lie about in regards to herself was her name, her age and what she did for work. Everything else was a lie... .  EVERYTHING! Her whole life is one-big-lie. I can't describe how hard it is to accept that the person who I shared a home with, shared a bed with... .  shared her kids with was lieing to my face about absolutely everything! That is so scary. How could someone do that? Especially at 37 years old? It's not like she's a 21 year old or something. Why why why? Why would she lie to such a staggering amount?

I just have one question I wish I could get answered. After doing some digging into her past and realizing that she's lived her entire adult life like this with an extremely long line of devastated men in her past... .  how does she sleep at night?

I'd love to know what lies she told, what she lied about, if you feel like getting into that.

[Rose Tiger]

One of the things I did to self sooth and NOT contact him, was going through this forum and clicking on titles that said things like "Got a text", "Broke NC", subjects like that.  I was living vicariously through others' experiences.  Because I wanted a text and I wanted to break NC.  I would read old saved emails as a way to feel still connected to him.

I'm a pull that bandaid off real slow type of person.  Some can just rip it off, delete everything, throw things away, and get on with recovery faster.  I am not that person. 

[stevenq]

Hey Dave! Stay strong! Im going on 8weeks of no contact! I ended the relationship abruptly. Im having a hard time but i know its for the best. I must admit im surprised she hasnt tried to contact me yet. I know shes prob seeing someone. She often told me she would meet someone right away if i left so she wouldnt hurt. I must admit im still hurt.

[trevjim]

This is hard Dave.  Hows the other things, family and friends, in your life right now?  Can you lean on them for support.

Non existent... .  

I also just found out yesterday she is on a dating site. This is after telling me at least half a dozen times while dating her that "This is it. If we don't work out I'm done. I will never date again, ever. I just couldn't do it"... .  

Mine said exactly the same thing, that she is done with men. A day after we break up she has a new boyfriend... .  

[awake]

I have learned to be deliberate about everything I do.  I have made playlists of music that lift my spirits and I'm very careful not to hear any music that I connect to my ex-BPD (and there is lots of it, he was a musician)... .  I make plans with friends and make myself go.  I plan evenings for me alone.  Keep busy.  When the grief descends I give myself permission to feel it, but then I let it go because I have plans.  Start planning how you spend your free time... .  it helps.  And when the sadness comes back, I can come to this site and that helps.

[jaird]

Lots of contradictions there with her.  Seeing that dating profile had to hurt.  Is there a way to protect yourself from running across this stuff at least for a little while until you are feeling a little stronger?

What's up the family and friends?  Did the relationship end up isolating you from them?

I can top that. I went away to parents weekend at school with my wife before I started leaving my marriage. It was nothing romantic, just a trip to see our son at college. My exBPD GF not only went on a dating site that weekend, she sent me pictures of herself and asked me which would make the best profile picture!

After that, she blocked me on her phone for four days. After her first and only date was a complete disaster, and she realized she cannot drink and date, and she put herself in a bad situation, did she reestablish contact with me.

[jaird]

I wonder if it's partly seasonal that all these dumped lovers are on this site now. I mean, I wonder of Christmas or Thanksgiving, both family holidays, or New Years (the start of something new), creates a stressful situation in which the BPD dumps their lover.

Any moderators know if there is a seasonal jump in this, or is it like this all the time here? LOL

[jaird]

I just ask because my ex had a not so great Thanksgiving after her children and grandkids went to see her ex husband and his new GF was there.

Then Christmas she had to work, so she celebrated with her family a few days before Christmas.

And then she was always big on that "new year, new beginning" crap, LOL

[Discarded26]

I wonder if it's partly seasonal that all these dumped lovers are on this site now. I mean, I wonder of Christmas or Thanksgiving, both family holidays, or New Years (the start of something new), creates a stressful situation in which the BPD dumps their lover.

Any moderators know if there is a seasonal jump in this, or is it like this all the time here? LOL

I was dumped 2 weeks after spending new years with him and his family. Apparently was cos of his new job and wont have time for me anymore. His job is 'his other half now'

Me? Discarded and 3 weeks later, I still feel bloody awful

[cal644]

Mine hated Thanksgiving and Christmas (esp Christmas) with a passion.  I don't know why, but if she had a choice she would nix those holidays

[GreenMango]

The site does see increased traffic during holidays.  If you read posts during that time you may notice more emotional disruptions in households and relationships.

My understanding and experience was the emotional history/baggage and the expectations during the special times was very overwhelming and given that there isn't a lot of positive coping skills things flared up during these times.

Getting an understanding of the struggles of a person with this disorder can help to depersonalize their actions a bit.  It's unfortunate because much of the time its the ones closest (outside of the pwBPD) that bear the brunt of the effects of the disorder.  Its pretty painful.

When these kind of questions came up for me I kept asking myself would I want to live like this the rest of my life? 

[gina louise]

guys,

I am almost 13 weeks out from a 4 year r/s and two of those years married-and I can tell you it gets better and better. Even a week more of NC makes a difference. Keep on doing it.

I fled the home and the marriage during a rage fest that had lasted weeks. HUSBAND filed for divorce after 3 days.

Pathetic, traumatic, horrible, soul killing.

I cried, prayed and cried more and felt miserable off and on daily at first, then every other day... then every few days and now haven't cried at all this week.

I feel calm, relaxed, better, healthier. More myself than I have in MONTHS. Dare I say it, happier.



Stay away, stay sane, stay NC, stay busy, pamper yourself... .  and rest your weary mind.

GL

[jaird]

guys,

I am almost 13 weeks out from a 4 year r/s and two of those years married-and I can tell you it gets better and better. Even a week more of NC makes a difference. Keep on doing it.

I fled the home and the marriage during a rage fest that had lasted weeks. H filed for D after 3 days.

Pathetic, traumatic, horrible, soul killing.

I cried, prayed and cried more and felt miserable off and on daily at first, then every other day... then every few days and now haven't cried at all this week.

I feel calm, relaxed, better, healthier. More myself than I have in MONTHS. Dare I say it, happier.



Stay away, stay sane, stay NC, stay busy, pamper yourself... .  and rest your weary mind.

GL

I made the mistake of emailing my ex again. I was not trying to get back together with her, well maybe I was, LOL. Anyway, I went three days NC. I did email her because I am thinking of moving to an area about 20 minutes from where she lives. I told her in the email that I did not care to see her (I really don't want to run into her when she is with another man), and also I told her I did not want to upset her son who lives in the area I am thinking about moving to. I don't know the son well at all, but he is an adult and I have met him.

At first she was kind of nice about it, and offered to possibly help me as I looked for an apartment. But then she became nasty again and threatening. All this in a little over 24 hours. I feel like I went from black to white, or at least grey, and now I'm sorry I mentioned the move to her at all.

I do love her when she is calm and loving, but those moods don't seem to last.

I think I made a mistake telling her I was thinking about moving near her, but I was afraid if I did not clear it with her first she might say I was stalking her or harassing her by moving 20 minutes away from her. I was afraid of what she might do if she just found out I was living nearby. I thought it seemed reasonable and honorable to ask her opinion.

Looks like it was a big mistake.

[Rose Tiger]

I think it was best to let her know because they do go to stalking thoughts when we mean nothing of the kind.  Of course you miss the nice her!  None of us would be here if there weren't nice sides.  Hang in there and think of something good to do for yourself.    You made it three days, you can do this. 

[jaird]

I think it was best to let her know because they do go to stalking thoughts when we mean nothing of the kind.  Of course you miss the nice her!  None of us would be here if there weren't nice sides.  Hang in there and think of something good to do for yourself.    You made it three days, you can do this. 

Yes, I really don't have much choice. I am blocked from her cell phone, but then she asks why I don't I call her house at night. I am now blocked from emailing her, though why that would matter as she is a master of email accounts and has a few and I could always make a new account if I wanted to reach her, or even email her at work.

I was in denial and experiencing sadness and even some anger for about 4-5 weeks. Once I got on these boards, and saw blow by blow how she engaged in textbook BPD behavior, I started to accept it. I came to realize that a relationship with her just would not work, something that I think she already realized. So, it's still sad but getting easier.

It is strange because I do still get an occasional email telling me how she has all my pictures, fantasizes about me, is seeing no one else, blah blah blah, but she doesn't want to give our relationship a real chance. I feel like she has memorialized our relationship, the good memories of it anyway. Kind of like enshrined it, while escaping the fact that it is a tough relationship and all relationships take work. She has often said things like "relationships should be easy", but I feel no relationship is really that easy for that long. They all might be fun and light in the beginning, but that honeymoon phase does not last forever. Eventually reality sets in and people have to make compromises and put up with little things that bother them. And that was another thing she did, both with me and with her ex husband, she continuously made mountains out of molehills, even as far as her grandkids leaving crumbs on her floor and how that stressed her. Also, any little thing that could be taken as a slight or criticism, was taken to heart by her. You could have an hour long conversation, and she would constantly come back to one sentence that she felt was critical of her and ignore the whole gist of the conversation. Quite strange!

[Rose Tiger]

It is hard because you have to downplay the words and pay attention to the actions.  A person with BPD will be hit with hard feelings of lonliless and want to pull up back in, at the same time keeping an arm's length of no, not really.  It is enough to turn a person mad, I want you 'available' but I don't want you.  The healthy way to take of yourself is to stop all contact, say no to the illusion and insist on the real deal.  We all deserve an individual healthy enough to work through the compromise, keeping the pw BPD in the background holds us back from our healing.

[jaird]

It is hard because you have to downplay the words and pay attention to the actions.  A person with BPD will be hit with hard feelings of lonliless and want to pull up back in, at the same time keeping an arm's length of no, not really.  It is enough to turn a person mad, I want you 'available' but I don't want you.  The healthy way to take of yourself is to stop all contact, say no to the illusion and insist on the real deal.  We all deserve an individual healthy enough to work through the compromise, keeping the pw BPD in the background holds us back from our healing.

Thank you Rose, very kind words!

But is it wrong to want the exBPD back if they would complete therapy? I really do love this person, though I realize the relationship is impossible as she is. I really would like to see her happy and healthy again, and be together as a couple. Doesn't NC preclude this from ever happening?

[Rose Tiger]

No, it isn't wrong.  I held on to hope for a long time.  I had a feeling that this relationship was meant to be, that we could overcome this disorder and be happy.  A part of me still wishes for this.  A part of grieving is 'bargaining', it's soothing to drop the pain for a bit and think about, maybe there is a way.  Because pwBPD that do commit to treatment have a good success rate.  Sometimes they seem to get that there is something off with them and partners get hopeful.  My ex would give hints and I'd think, finally.  And then he would pull it back to it's everybody else, not him.  It was hope, hopes dashed, hope, hopes dashed.

The reality is that most people with this disorder will not get treatment, will not stick with it if they do, especially if they are high functioning.  It's hard to detach when at times they are so normal and so lovable.  Detaching is hard work.  I had to go with, I love him but I'll love him from over here.  If he gets help, great, if he doesn't, that is his choice.  I don't think I will ever trust him enough to risk my well being.  It does come down to us making the break because every contact is harmful to us, it gives us false hope, it keeps us stuck.  Contact to them is different, it's a momentary feeling that is fleeting, they do not feel the same as we do.

[jaird]

No, it isn't wrong.  I held on to hope for a long time.  I had a feeling that this relationship was meant to be, that we could overcome this disorder and be happy.  A part of me still wishes for this.  A part of grieving is 'bargaining', it's soothing to drop the pain for a bit and think about, maybe there is a way.  Because pwBPD that do commit to treatment have a good success rate.  Sometimes they seem to get that there is something off with them and partners get hopeful.  My ex would give hints and I'd think, finally.  And then he would pull it back to it's everybody else, not him.  It was hope, hopes dashed, hope, hopes dashed.

The reality is that most people with this disorder will not get treatment, will not stick with it if they do, especially if they are high functioning.  It's hard to detach when at times they are so normal and so lovable.  Detaching is hard work.  I had to go with, I love him but I'll love him from over here.  If he gets help, great, if he doesn't, that is his choice.  I don't think I will ever trust him enough to risk my well being.  It does come down to us making the break because every contact is harmful to us, it gives us false hope, it keeps us stuck.  Contact to them is different, it's a momentary feeling that is fleeting, they do not feel the same as we do.

Thanks again Rose for your reply and the time you put in moderating. I am especially struck by your last sentence. My ex has been throwing out breadcrumbs for about two weeks now, but if I respond and say I want love and commitment and a stable partner, she says I misunderstood or she never said these things. It is maddening.

It's so hard for everyone on these boards, I see that. I never had a poor relationship with a woman in my life before I met this woman. Women to me, whether it was family or a lover, were always kind and usually warm. I was so naive to believe that just by being there for my ex, just by loving her and wanting to help her, everything would be alright.

[jaird]

No, it isn't wrong.  I held on to hope for a long time.  I had a feeling that this relationship was meant to be, that we could overcome this disorder and be happy.  A part of me still wishes for this.  A part of grieving is 'bargaining', it's soothing to drop the pain for a bit and think about, maybe there is a way.  Because pwBPD that do commit to treatment have a good success rate.  Sometimes they seem to get that there is something off with them and partners get hopeful.  My ex would give hints and I'd think, finally.  And then he would pull it back to it's everybody else, not him.  It was hope, hopes dashed, hope, hopes dashed.

The reality is that most people with this disorder will not get treatment, will not stick with it if they do, especially if they are high functioning.  It's hard to detach when at times they are so normal and so lovable.  Detaching is hard work.  I had to go with, I love him but I'll love him from over here.  If he gets help, great, if he doesn't, that is his choice.  I don't think I will ever trust him enough to risk my well being.  It does come down to us making the break because every contact is harmful to us, it gives us false hope, it keeps us stuck.  Contact to them is different, it's a momentary feeling that is fleeting, they do not feel the same as we do.

Thanks again Rose for your reply and the time you put in moderating. I am especially struck by your last sentence. My ex has been throwing out breadcrumbs for about two weeks now, but if I respond and say I want love and commitment and a stable partner, she says I misunderstood or she never said these things. It is maddening.

It's so hard for everyone on these boards, I see that. I never had a poor relationship with a woman in my life before I met this woman. Women to me, whether it was family or a lover, were always kind and usually warm. I was so naive to believe that just by being there for my ex, just by loving her and wanting to help her, everything would be alright.

I too felt our relationship was "meant to be", and it's hard to give up hope. And BTW, my ex prides herself on being a high functioning person with a career. She also gave up therapy. She gave me so many reasons why she gave it up-couldn't afford the copayments, the therapist couldn't help her, she is a product of her environment, I would have to take her as she is, the therapist blamed it all on you (me), LOL

[Rose Tiger]

Your'e welcome.    The one that drove me batty was him saying, I'm doing the best I can.  It was a total cop out of take it or lump it.

What absolutely killed it was the inability to communicate about deep subjects.  Heck, he became dysregulated when I said, we need a new mattress.  Really?  Buying a new mattress is that stressful?  Yes.  It becomes too hard when you can't talk about normal couple stuff.  When it's all about them and your needs are pooh poohed.

Detaching took me a long time, he was so sweet, witty and kind to other people.  He is popular and charming.  It made me believe that I was the one causing problems for this great guy.  It took my therapist saying, no, what he did is not what a good partner would do.  It took a long time for me to believe her.  Now I think about things like when he threw his wedding ring at me and said no wonder your last husband divorced you.  When he would say that he wanted a divorce at the drop of a hat.  When he tried to kick my cat because the cat hissed at him.  When he went into a rage when my little girl whispered something in my ear because it was private.  I can't believe I didn't 'see' it at the time.  It's so clear now, he is an abuser.  Nothing meant to be about it.

[maria1]

Funeral sounds like a great idea. You need to mourn what you had, you all lost a promise of a future. You all lost a dream.

It gets better I promise. Walking is the biggest thing that helped me, some days I had to break into a run the pain was so much (and I don't run).

I forced myself to walk every day and at times when the feelings became overwhelming. I also swore and shouted at an imaginary him (still do at times, I've been holding back a while). In time I realised I was enjoying the walk. Just me and nature and the feeling of walking.

Another thing that helped me was making a deal with mysef when I desperately wanted to contact him that I would wait 1 day. I always felt different the next day, always.

[Iced]

The emotional hell and blame-blame-blame I endured towards the end of everything was and is more than enough to remind me - at all times - what untreated BPD looks like and how it can affect others.

It also reminds me of exactly WHY I detached from that person and why - despite their previous repeated attempts to re-initiate contact, I never returned communication.

No matter what people do, ultimately, the possibility for treatment and recovery rests on the WILLING and SELF-AWARE shoulders of the pwBPD (or even any other disorder or mood issues or whatever).

You can lead horses to water, but ultimately, you can't make them drink.

You can't 'save' people in these sorts of situations if they themselves refuse to acknowledge needing help and deny having a problem.

Furthermore, you also can't 'save' people who are willing to be helped unless you're strong enough to do the helping yourself.

That said, if they are not going through treatment - and I mean honest treatment, not lying about treatment or going through treatment with having the wool pulled over the therapist's eyes - the behaviors that so characterize a pwBPD continues and that includes the jerking around of you, your emotions, and your life - things which ultimately add up to abuse.

Is it worth it to get back into that?  All of that?