When is the silent treatment actually guilt?

[nomoremommyfood]

I know my posting on these forums is sparse - but equaled by ostentatious lurking and obsessively searching topics. My apologies off the bat for being a "bad forum member". I also know "the silent treatment" has been discussed verbatim. But this version of the silent treatment - following atrocious behavior - makes me wonder if it's not anger, but guilt.

For the past year, things had improved with my dBPDbf of 6 yrs. (hope I got that right). I just moved out of an overcrowded living situation into a great apartment with a roommate (he and I  don't live together by my choice). My birthday was Wednesday but, for some reason, he put a lot of emphasis on hanging out the day before my actual birthday, and I got the feeling he was planning something. He came over Tuesday night, amorous and excited about giving me presents. As we were curled up about to order dinner, my roommate came home unexpectedly. I was bummed about having my romance interrupted, but invited her to get food. I guess something she said offended him, because suddenly he says "maybe I'll go home and eat dinner by myself." I replied, "if you want to go home, go home." And - out of nowhere - he grabbed his coat, told me he'd "give me presents to someone else" that I "complain too much" (I hadn't complained about anything) and to "drop dead" as my roommate fled the room. I spent all night futilely trying to call him and text him - not angrily, but just to find out what could have possibly upset him.

My birthday passed... .  and I heard nothing (and am sure blowing off my birthday was "punishment"

The next day passed... .  nothing (though the pain of having him sabotage my birthday surely contributed to having the stomach flu for the second time)

I finally called an hour ago to no reply. I texted a bogus "I'm sorry and want to make amends. Please let me know what you're ready to talk." I'm wondering if stonewalling me might have something to do with embarrassment... .  he's historically threw the hugest fits after exhibiting the worst behavior. Not only did he ruin my birthday, but humiliated me and himself in front of my new roommate (whom he sees as someone of higher social standing), and followed it with days of sulking. Perhaps he's reacting to the disappointment of having his romantic evening and his "really nice gifts" destroyed... .  by his own hand? This is killing me and working from home makes it difficult to concentrate on anything else... .  including recovering from the flu! I don't know whether to keep trying to contact him with the begging and pleading he adores or put my cell phone in a safe deposit box! And, worst of all, I STILL DON'T KNOW WHY HE'S UPSET!

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[briefcase]

Put the cell phone in the safe deposit box.   

Calling him and begging and pleading for understanding won't work.  I tried that approach with my wife for over a decade.  The truth is, if he has BPD or some other personality disorder, these things come from inside of him.  He may or may not be able to explain what he thinks triggered it. 

Also, it's best to not apologize just try to restore the peace.  It let's him off the hook, and it really doesn't restore any peace other than maybe very short term.  It's a destructive pattern. 

Have you had a chance to read the workshop we have on silent treatments?

[nomoremommyfood]

I'm not sure if I've been able to find the workshop on silent treatments - I've just been using the search function and reading the articles that come up.

... .  And what's really painful about waiting for him to cool down is that the hypothetical cell-phone safety deposit box stays locked when my boss and clients call... .  and everyone who called and texted on my birthday leading me to jump in anticipation and put on a forced "thank you!" Insult to injury. At this point, I'm tempted to delete his number, but I've done it so many times that I have the area code memorized.

Now, what's scaring me is the fact that, during a previous fight, he threw out the ammunition that all his friends tell him to dump me by breaking contact, but he's afraid it would result in my relapsing into former drug addiction (though subsequent friends love me for "putting up with him". Previous fight ammunition has also included, "now that you have a good job and a good apartment, you should just find a better boyfriend."

What started as a particularly cruel way to ruin a birthday has turned into an ongoing, mysterious tantrum and potential sudden break-up of a six year relationship that was formerly at its best. I can't concentrate on work or recover from the stomach flu because I can't eat. I can't imagine someone who I was so close to disappearing so suddenly and without reason after six years and am unprepared for that kind of shock.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm not sure if I've been able to find the workshop on silent treatments - I've just been using the search function and reading the articles that come up.

Go to the right column link for "The Lessons" any time.

Let me point you directly to the link you will find there for the workshop on the silent treatment and verbal abuse

Searching does work, but the Lessons are organized pretty well and are a great place to start. And if you post about what  you are currently needing support with, somebody is sure to point you in the right direction one way or another.

[Grey Kitty]

Let me just say that he is mentally ill and will say things that are A) hurtful, and B) not based in the real world you are living in. But knowing that doesn't do much to stop it from hurting. 

As for what to do right now: Yes, put your cellphone in a safe deposit box.

Or perhaps a more practical solution: Set a special ringtone for him on your phone. That way when your friends, family, boss, clients, etc. will still ring your phone and you won't jump thinking that it is him.

If it works better for you, his ringtone could be "silent".

For a minute, set aside what he is up to... .  and let me ask you a question:

What are you doing to take care of yourself?

[almost789]

Nomoremommyfood: "As we were curled up about to order dinner, my roommate came home unexpectedly. I was bummed about having my romance interrupted, but invited her to get food. I guess something she said offended him, because suddenly he says "maybe I'll go home and eat dinner by myself." I replied, "if you want to go home, go home." And - out of nowhere - he grabbed his coat, told me he'd "give me presents to someone else" that I "complain too much" (I hadn't complained about anything) and to "drop dead" as my roommate fled the room"

This is just my opinion and impression. You had a romantic evening planned. Your roomate sudddenly shows up unexpectedly. You offer for her to stay for dinner. He says maybe I should go, and you tell him to go ahead.

I think you are in the wrong here and he deserves and apology. He was clearly telling you he was not happy with this situation and you invalidated him by telling him if you don't like it leave then. Maybe you should had explained to your roomate that you had an evening planned with him and she needed to stop by another time. I don't think he's guilty. I think he's mad and quite justifiably in my opinion.

[nomoremommyfood]

I love the idea of changing his ringtone! Though "silent" might result in frantically checking for missed calls. I'll have to think of an appropriate ringtone (perhaps Michael Jackson's "Leave me Alone" to match his long-time moniker, "Selfish Intentionally Cruel Person Whose Illness Doesn't Justify His Behavior."

I just figured out how to find the Workshops; I'd read the one on "Silent Treatment" last night and have perused others. It's reassuring to experience a behavior and discover it word-for-word on a site dedicated to his mental illness; our last fight was about withholding sex and finding a forum post that included his exact language was oddly comforting... .  as was confirmation of the devastating effects of the silent treatment.

Is he aware of what he's doing? Three days ago, his behavior had been so horrific, I was debating breaking up with him and now I'm terrified he's leaving me. Knowing how upset he gets if I miss his calls even by accident, could he be implementing this bizarre and unwarranted punishment to avoid accounting for his actions? The more I think about it, the more I remember his all-time worst actions being directly followed by periods of silence.

And - assuming things return to normal - what can I do to make this behavior stop? I think he should know the damage he's implemented by this ongoing abuse but doubt he'll take it to heart.

What are you doing to take care of yourself?

Sitting alone, reading these forums. I'm supposed to work from the couch today after being violently ill yesterday and am still lightheaded from dehydration... .  but too depressed to consider eating. This is the hard part of working home, no longer living with six people, and having burnt out all your friends on tales of this jerk's cruelty.

[almost789]

Let me get this right. He arranged a romantic evening with presents and was excited about it for sometime. You didn't honor it, invited someone else to pry into your evening together and have dinner with the two of you. He expresses his sadness and intent to leave and you tell him "go ahead". And he's the "cruel jerk?"

Ok, makes sense to me. Any projection going on here?

[tuum est61]

Insult to injury. At this point, I'm tempted to delete his number, but I've done it so many times that I have the area code memorized.

What started as a particularly cruel way to ruin a birthday has turned into an ongoing, mysterious tantrum and potential sudden break-up of a six year relationship that was formerly at its best.

NMMF,

Its too bad your birthday was ruined.  

The bolded portions of these excerpts from your post higher up in this thread dont seem to fit.  It looks like you cant forget  his number because you deleted it so many times, yet your relationship was "formerly at its best?" Wasnt his behavior fairly typical?


It does seem to me though that because youve had a history of him blowing up over things, I don't think he's feeling guilty; he's just having another tantrum.  Let us know if and when he gets back to you.


LGO2, I was reading things somewhat as you were, but he "dropped in" ahead of her birthday, ie it wasn't planned.  

[nomoremommyfood]

This is just my opinion and impression. You had a romantic evening planned. Your roomate sudddenly shows up unexpectedly. You offer for her to stay for dinner. He says maybe I should go, and you tell him to go ahead.

I think you are in the wrong here and he deserves and apology. He was clearly telling you he was not happy with this situation and you invalidated him by telling him if you don't like it leave then. Maybe you should had explained to your roomate that you had an evening planned with him and she needed to stop by another time. I don't think he's guilty. I think he's mad and quite justifiably in my opinion.

You're right - I shouldn't have told him to "go ahead and leave." It was a quick, annoyed response to his oft-repeated "maybe I'll just go home" that he uses to get a rise out of me, even when there's no one in site. Admittedly, the arrival of my drunk roommate put a damper on things but it's not like I can tell her to leave her own house... .  though I did answer a litany of questions about dog ownership with one word responses. In fact, she walked in with a story about how she couldn't get anyone at the pizza place to wait on her - the same place she'd gone the prior time he came over, then disappeared into her room, which I assumed she'd do this time.

By the way, he didn't "arrange a romantic evening for my birthday." He texted me the day before my birthday at noon and asked if he could come over for dinner at 7:00 to order pizza with my $10 off coupon. On my actual birthday, he didn't want to hang out... .  but gave no reason. And I don't know how "my roommate came home to her own place of residence where she pays rent and has a bed turns into "invited someone else over."

Should I have asked her to get a hotel?

I used to live with six roommates. They've often come home when we were calling out for dinner and he's never before had a problem with me asking if they wanted me to order them something.

Ordering a slightly bigger pizza for your roommate to grab a slice before heading to her room is way different than asking the waiter to join us at a candlelit dinner.

Yes, I shouldn't have snapped at a comment he's baited me with over and over again. But - please - explain to me how "projection" plays any role here?

[almost789]

Because your are blaming him for what you should be apologizing for. If this was a planned evening and your roomate just pops in unexpectedly as you said then perhaps she should make other plans. Or you could have at least been understanding that he was upset. And u were not understanding at all. You told him to go ahead and leave. And now you call him a cruel jerk. What was your responsibility in this?

nomoremommyfood: "he put a lot of emphasis on hanging out the day before my actual birthday, and I got the feeling he was planning something. He came over Tuesday night, amorous and excited about giving me presents. As we were curled up about to order dinner, my roommate came home unexpectedly. I was bummed about having my romance interrupted, but invited her to get food"

[benny2]

ahh yes the silent treatment. I get it all the time and never really know why. I have found that if you leave them alone, I think that bothers them more than anything. I think they get some kind of satisfaction from getting chased.

[almost789]

Because your are blaming him for what you should be apologizing for. If this was a planned evening and your roomate just pops in unexpectedly as you said then perhaps she should make other plans. Or you could have at least been understanding that he was upset. And u were not understanding at all. You told him to go ahead and leave. And now you call him a cruel jerk. What was your responsibility in this?

Forgive me if I misinterpreted but from what you said, I got the idea this was kind of planned and romantic... .  as you stated here. I guess the part that I find cruel was when he was expressing his annoyance with the interruption, you were not understanding of that. We all make mistakes, but we all should also take responsibilty for our part. You stated in your original post you could not imagine what he could have possibly be uspet about as if you are totally inocent here and hes the cruel jerk.

nomoremommyfood: "he put a lot of emphasis on hanging out the day before my actual birthday, and I got the feeling he was planning something. He came over Tuesday night, amorous and excited about giving me presents. As we were curled up about to order dinner, my roommate came home unexpectedly. I was bummed about having my romance interrupted, but invited her to get food"

[nomoremommyfood]

If this was a planned evening and your roomate just pops in unexpectedly as you said then perhaps she should make other plans. Or you could have at least been understanding that he was upset.

Perhaps I should have been more clear - I tend to edit down posts for brevity and I'd really rather this conversation turn to "what can I do about this?" instead of "who was wrong?"

My boyfriend actually didn't have anything planned - he'd asked me to come over for breakfast and dinner earlier that week, then never followed through. On the phone, he said he missed me and Ithink it was a "calm before the storm" situation. When he showed up the day before my birthday for dinner, he immediately said he didn't plan on spending the night and would be leaving to visit his friend in a few hours. He never intended on seeing me or doing anything for my birthday.

The appearance of my roommate at 7:30 was "unexpected" only to me because I thought she was working late that night - her appearance was not unexpected to my BF. He and I both have roommates and would both find it ridiculously rude to ask someone to "find somewhere else to go" because we were ordering pizza that night. In fact, the exact prior week My BF came over with actual expectations for a romantic night in my new apartment. My roommate came home from work... .  she chatted for a second, went in her room, everything was fine. It's a big, expensive city... .  that's why we have doors.

I had no idea he was upset until he stormed off. As previously written, his phrase, "maybe I'll eat dinner at my house" is said virtually every time he takes hours to decide where to go for dinner... .  a common occurrence that was going on that very night... .  and my retort a common response. Neither comment was made in obvious sadness or cruelty. And I have apologized. I immediately begged him to stay, then called him over and over again until he turned his phone off, texted him, and am still apologizing four days later.

I've known the guy for six years, I know his quirks, I know our rapport. This was not the special occasion it initially appeared to me. I've already said I shouldn't have challenged him to leave but, seeing as the exact same back-and-forth had been spoken in innocence multiple times prior - I honestly think there was something else triggering him and not just me being a high-maintenance diva.

What's the advice I'm supposed to glean from this? Watch your every word because last week's average occasion and normal repartee will get you deservedly dumped the next week? Please tell me if I'm out of line and I'm happy to leave but it's very upsetting to have a boyfriend you can't discuss with friends or family, reach out for help, and get "it was entirely your fault" in return. All that makes me want to do is keep apologizing, which contradicts and confuses the helpful advice of others... .  who and what am I supposed to believe?

Name was removed to maintain the anonymity  of the poster

[elemental]

i think mine gets satisfaction from being chased.

I believe when people feel chased, they feel secure enough to behave badly because they are pretty sure you aren't going to just drop them and leave. They know you are upset and hurting and wanting them to help, and your "weakness" adds to their contempt.

I had a lot of problems this way with mine in November, December, and part of January. The more secure he felt, the more he ignored, interspersing the ignoring with a couple of goading emails a week, which typically have easily upset me more and had me frantically trying to get him to talk to me... .  while he basically set himself in front of me and then made sure to block every avenue to actually talking.

It pretty much sent me into a major breakdown. It only stopped when I stopped responding to the goading. It took about 10 days before he said something and I responded with "hope you are ok"... which is not exactly ASKING and so didn't invite a response.

He said "happy new year", and I decided to wait a few days before responding, then he said it again to be sure I knew he reached out... and I was very reserved in my response until it balanced back out and he began to persue mostly with me responding.

Now I am probably about to set him back off into another retreat and silent treatment and tbh, I feel so helpless and hurt that if he does this now, I am not sure I will be around anymore.

btw, guilt ends up being resentment and shame which is then something YOU get blamed for. so when he starts it, just walk off and make sure YOU are centered.

[nomoremommyfood]

Life Goes On - My apologies, I accidentally misread your post - I just saw a block of quoted text and didn't realize you'd added new content, thinking you were just retyping my own words back to me. Please disregard the slightly heated post I just left and now, for some reason, can't find an edit button to modify. Regardless, I hope I've cleared it up that the encounter - though I'd initially gotten excited about something special - turned out to be very close to an ordinary night in... .  albeit one that somehow turned brutal.

Elemental, I agree about the enjoyment of being chased.

And, putting the pieces together (as well as going back to an old post, here), it seemed like a perfect storm was brewing while I was naively basking in the temporary comfort of a new apartment and calm boyfriend. The last time he had a major fit coincided with me getting a new job after being unemployed for a while... .  and I wondered if he feared "moving up" meant moving away from him. This time, I moved out of the overcrowded, dilapidated apartment into the normal living quarters I never thought I could afford. He'd previously made illusions that, since I was doing so well, I should find a "better boyfriend," too. Maybe part of it is an attempt to get rid of me before I get rid of him.

Of course, there's always his self-fulfilling prophecy - if we have sex, it will inevitably result in a massive fight the next time we see each other. And "christening" the new apartment was particularly intimate... .  I should have known it was too good to be true.

Still, while I sense that leaving him alone will lead him to come forward, the wait can go on for weeks. And the uncertainty of waiting is what kills me... .  would it be so bad if I let him know I was available just every other day?

[elemental]

What I have done in the past is every few days send a mail, something short and innocuous.

Like a youtube link of a song I liked that has nothing to do with us.

It seemed to reassure him that I was calm even though he had caused a lot of upset. After he was sure the coast was clear, out he would come slowly. Slow I guess just in case I had sort of suckered him out and was waiting to take a smack at him.

I don't do that technique very much anymore because right now I have a lot of hurt and resentment, so I don't want to put myself out there for him. But it has worked just fine in the past. You really can't ask or demand or offer anything when you do it because they will catch on that you are anxious and your anxious bone will then be worked over by them.

[Grey Kitty]

Hang in there.   It does sound pretty tough on you. But it also sounds a lot like the "normal" patterns in this relationship for you. You survived it for six years. You will still survive it. But you can change how you respond to him and that will start to change the system.

Is he aware of what he's doing? Three days ago, his behavior had been so horrific, I was debating breaking up with him and now I'm terrified he's leaving me.

No, he probably isn't very self-aware. He is extremely unlikely to ever admit that he was. There is probably a part of him that knows he's being awful, and has some twisted mind-games he plays with himself to justify why you deserve it, or why he deserves it.

If I were in your shoes right now I'd (gently) try to drop that train of thought--it won't leave the station and take you to any destination you want to go.

If you focus on your own feelings, both the thoughts of breaking up with him and the fear that he will leave you, you can work out what is important to you. This gives you more strength and understanding to take some difficult actions like trying to validate when you think he's going to lose it, or setting boundaries and enforcing them.

Knowing how upset he gets if I miss his calls even by accident, could he be implementing this bizarre and unwarranted punishment to avoid accounting for his actions? The more I think about it, the more I remember his all-time worst actions being directly followed by periods of silence.

Your speculation here is pretty likely close to accurate. And I think this is another train that won't take you to a good destination if you think about it too much.

I'm sure you've already seen how well it works when you try to guess what might upset him and not do it?

And - assuming things return to normal - what can I do to make this behavior stop? I think he should know the damage he's implemented by this ongoing abuse but doubt he'll take it to heart.

I think you know (from sad past experience) that confronting him and telling him how much he hurt you when he did something didn't go well. I've done the same myself, and it didn't help. So what does work?

If you really do have to communicate something difficult, the lessons describe things like SET and DEARMAN as methods that work better.

The other thing you can do is let go of the idea that he *should* be "normal" and be able to be told something like this and apologize like a grown-up. That is simply outside the capacity of a person with BPD, just like flying is outside yours. Wanting it to be otherwise just makes everybody crazy, and doesn't solve anything!

What are you doing to take care of yourself?

Sitting alone, reading these forums. I'm supposed to work from the couch today after being violently ill yesterday and am still lightheaded from dehydration... .  but too depressed to consider eating. This is the hard part of working home, no longer living with six people, and having burnt out all your friends on tales of this jerk's cruelty.

Hanging out online in a supportive environment is a good start. Resting when you are recovering from illness is good too.

When you recover, is there more you would like to do that would take care of yourself?

And, putting the pieces together (as well as going back to an old post, here), it seemed like a perfect storm was brewing while I was naively basking in the temporary comfort of a new apartment and calm boyfriend.

Yes, it is soo easy to see things look good and get suckered into thinking that the problems won't come back. I think we all have done it, and will likely do it again!

The last time he had a major fit coincided with me getting a new job after being unemployed for a while... .  and I wondered if he feared "moving up" meant moving away from him. This time, I moved out of the overcrowded, dilapidated apartment into the normal living quarters I never thought I could afford. He'd previously made illusions that, since I was doing so well, I should find a "better boyfriend," too. Maybe part of it is an attempt to get rid of me before I get rid of him.

I've said this a couple times before. Trying to figure out what he is thinking, or trying to make sense of it isn't going to work well, and more importantly, isn't likely to help you or help your relationship with him. You are better off if you can gently ask yourself not to go down that path.

Of course, there's always his self-fulfilling prophecy - if we have sex, it will inevitably result in a massive fight the next time we see each other. And "christening" the new apartment was particularly intimate... .  I should have known it was too good to be true.

Still, while I sense that leaving him alone will lead him to come forward, the wait can go on for weeks. And the uncertainty of waiting is what kills me... .  would it be so bad if I let him know I was available just every other day?

He knows you are available. I don't know how much harm it would cause... .  but also don't see it being very helpful.

I would suggest that you think of it this way: Right now he is disordered, and would be terrible company for you if you did contact him. So he is doing you a favor by staying away. No, that won't stop it from hurting. But you can be thankful for the new hurtful fight that isn't happening while he is staying clear.

And also realize... .  if you are chasing him during this silent treatment, this "works for him" and not for you: You are getting hurt, and he knows that he is successful at manipulating/controlling you with this. I wouldn't say that it is a conscious understanding. But if you give him what he wants, it doesn't provide any motivation for him to change.

[almost789]

No offense taken nofoodformommy. I agree with the others, you cant chase him or force him out of it. The only thing u can do is to acknowledge your part in it and apologize. I wouldnt go overboard though, this seems to make the silent treatment last longer and hell use it on you at every little rift u have. Does he have a history of using silent treatment ? Or is this the first time?

[almost789]

I just noticed something else in your original post. You texted him a 'bogus' apology? And him blowing up must have been something your roomate said to set him off?  You want to know what can u do about this? How about really accepting your responsibility and not in a 'bogus' way. That would be a good start.

[nomoremommyfood]

I just noticed something else in your original post. You texted him a 'bogus' apology? And him blowing up must have been something your roomate said to set him off?  You want to know what can u do about this? How about really accepting your responsibility and not in a 'bogus' way. That would be a good start.

Everyone who's heard this situation in depth and knows both parties thinks it's something my roommate said that he misinterpreted. Specifically, "Your father wants to know what you're doing for your birthday and I told him you were sick of people asking but I told him I knew you were definitely not hanging out with your boyfriend... .  no offense." "No offense" was directed toward him... .  and, obviously, a statement followed by "no offense" is a statement likely to be taken as offensive. I think he read this as "you're not hanging out with your boyfriend because he's not worth it." She was referring to him not making solid plans with me thus leaving that date up in the air.

"Bogus" apology refers to apologizing via text message yesterday without knowledge of the reason but with intent to end the fight... .  common in these scenarios... .  and stated simply as "I'm sorry and want to make amends; please let me know when you're ready to talk."

Seriously, dude. Should I text him, "By the way, you know the last time I apologized? Yeah, I had no specific reason for my sorriness. But now, thanks to the internet, I really am sorry!" Again, I've seen him act this way before when all the elements of a perfect storm are brewing (high expectations, change, long period of good times, increase in intimacy)... .  over the course of years. I know him. You don't. Please stop going through my posts for minutiae on what legitimate excuse he may have for blowing up and either assume that a.) I'm smart enough to recognize when his diagnosed illness is triggered b.) I'm an idiotic, self-centered [insert euphemism] that you wouldn't want to associate with, anyway. Even if I spat in his face, I don't have a time machine. Putting aside questions and plans to move forward in lieu of lengthy posts defending actions not unusual for our relationship isn't why I came on this forum and is making a bad situation worse.

[nomoremommyfood]

What I have done in the past is every few days send a mail, something short and innocuous.

He pulls the silent card - I'm estimating - about once a year (I don't remember the fight-specifics that I haven't written down, but do remember the frustration as monumentally outweighing scream-outs) and this is one of the only things I've noticed previously help break through when it's really bad. This is currently the worst instance since 2011 when he was depressed over his 40th birthday and a losing spree at the racetrack and I was melting under unemployment. I remember leaving the city and only regaining contact by slowly and surely texting him innocuous things... .  stuff about bands or horse-racing. I read somewhere that taking the emphasis off their illness (or, I guess, symptoms) helps. Of course, in that instance, he was depressed and lashing out at everyone. In this instance, he's fuming at me for some unforgivable sin.

And it still buries the problem - these silent spells cause complete upheaval, make daily life difficult, and put my job at risk. But, as mentioned by Grey Kitty, asking him to abstain does nothing. Even worse, it gives him ammunition. For example, when I asked he not claim I have Asperger's (I don't) when he's upset at me, he only used it more.

Of course, the problem builds until I just want the silence over any way possible... .  even harboring resentment is a better alternative. I'm debating another call today, followed by a friendly, off-topic text - he's practicing with his bandmate who has consistently spoken highly of me.