some behaviours that seem to be in alot of BPD relationships.

[trevjim]

Since chatting and reading these boards, I noticed a lot of behaviours of pwBPD can be similar in differant people's relationships.

How many of these does you BPD do or show?

1) seems to live or want a life of fantasy. For examples, wants the Hollywood relationship, or a fairytale one like Disney.

2) wants things they can't have, a bigger house, more luxurys etc, never seems happy with what they have.

3) has increased or decreased sex drive to what you would class as normal or healthy. Sometimes cries after sex.

4) object consistancy, wants to wear your clothes a lot, or take possessions of yours around with them.

5) texts or contacts member's of the opposite sex, sometimes exs a lot, and doesn't understand why you are not happy with that.

6) makes nasty comments about you, but in a friendly way, and sometimes comments about how good looking someone is. Does things to make you jelouse.

7) is lovely to people to their faces, but very btchey behind theyr backs.

8) stares at you wistfully, for example you could both be watching tv and she would keep looking at you.

[ricky rick]

Wow! That was exactly how my ex was. Thats why we as nons are soo drained by the end of the relationship.

[nowwhatz]

How about

9) Eats little or no food but drinks 10-20 diet cherry dr. peppers per day.

10) Has migraines that can only be cured by sex (a benefit to me perhaps).

11) Pulls out all her hair extensions than complains that she does not feel attractive any more with no hair extensions.

... .  

[TheDude]

11) Pulls out all her hair extensions than complains that she does not feel attractive any more with no hair extensions.

Huh. Mine has beautiful natural blonde hair, but has developed this obsession with wearing wigs. 

12) The inability to say either, "I'm sorry" or "goodbye".

[nowwhatz]

11) Pulls out all her hair extensions than complains that she does not feel attractive any more with no hair extensions.

Huh. Mine has beautiful natural blonde hair, but has developed this obsession with wearing wigs. 

12) The inability to say either, "I'm sorry" or "goodbye".

Oh wow. If I see my ex again maybe I will suggest a wig.

Mine had beautiful long hair but cut it a bit last year to go with extensions... .  her friend owns a hair salon... .  but my exgf burned the friend so many times (always said would pay for the extensions next friday etc) now she is stuck.

[lost007]

Constantly fishing for compliments.

[Vegasskydiver]

No offense but some most of the items on your list seem a bit ambiguous.  For instance I have has such amazing sex that I have cried but I am not borderline... .    Just saying

[struggli]

a - keeps several people of the opposite sex on reserve as "friends"

b - promises/says one thing and does another - aka lying

c - sneaky, deceptive, omits information selectively

d - can completely disengage with no apparent sense of loss

e - cannot handle any serious conversation (i.e., confronting obstacles/disputes in relationship)

f - sex is for manipulation or pacification, not pleasure/intimacy

g - no expression of remorse

h - absorbs the most recent ideas expressed by anyone, not questioning the validity of the source or own values/beliefs.

i - redirects blame to the accuser (the SO who is confronting the misbehavior) - aka gaslighting

j - dissociates from SO: during sex, watching TV, in the presence of a third party

k - is desired romantically/sexually by many people (seductive, both physically and verbally, but without being overtly sexual)

l - will cross boundaries, push the envelope, get away with murder, but when SO (who has been so tolerant, hoping the partner who loves him so much will stop misbehaving) has one outburst, steps "out of line", expresses dissatisfaction, the SO becomes a villain. (splitting?)

j - was sexually and/or physically abused and/or was neglected/discarded by parents

k - wants a SO who provides security/stability/safety but does not reciprocate



Just based on my very specific experience... .  

[GreenMango]

Doing a laundry list of behaviors isn't detaching... .  it's ruminating and dog-piling.  Having a conversation about the specifics of the disorder and common behaviors might be worthwhile as way to realistically look at the relationship with perspective.

The list below is the clinical standards of common behavior seen in people with BPD.

For each item it could be a helpful exercise to see where it fits within the disorder.   There are things in a relationship with a person with BPD that can be attributed to the disorder, then there are things that are part of being in a relationship, and then there parts that can be attributed to us.    It helps to be able to see the difference.

From: Diagnosis: What are the new DSM-5.0 criteria for BPD?

1 Impairments  The must be impairments in self functioning AND impairments in interpersonal functioning

1 Impairments  The must be impairments in self functioning AND impairments in interpersonal functioning (more on this later)

In the DSM 5, the essential features of a personality disorder are impairments in personality (self and interpersonal) functioning and the presence of pathological personality traits. To diagnose borderline personality disorder, the following criteria must be met:

Self (impairment in at least 1): Not covered below

Identity: Experience of oneself as unique, with clear boundaries between self and others; stability of self-esteem and accuracy of self-appraisal; capacity for, and ability to regulate, a range of emotional experience.  To be rated from healthy functioning (Level = 0) to extreme impairment (Level = 4).

Self-direction: Pursuit of coherent and meaningful short-term and life goals; utilization of constructive and prosocial internal standards of behavior; ability to self-reflect productively.   To be rated from healthy functioning (Level = 0) to extreme impairment (Level = 4).

Interpersonal (impairment in at least 1): Covered below

Empathy*: Comprehension and appreciation of others’ experiences and motivations; tolerance of differing perspectives; understanding of the effects of own behavior on others.    To be rated from healthy functioning (Level = 0) to extreme impairment (Level = 4).

Intimacy*: Depth and duration of positive connections with others; desire and capacity for closeness; mutuality of regard reflected in interpersonal behavior.   To be rated from healthy functioning (Level = 0) to extreme impairment (Level = 4).



Below is the scale for "empathy".  There are four scales in total (identity, self direction, empathy, intimacy).  To me, it is facinating to see "empathy" defined in such clear terms.

Healthy (0) Capable of accurately understanding others’ experiences and motivations in most situations. Comprehends and appreciates others’ perspectives, even if disagreeing.  Is aware of the effect of own actions on others.

Mild impairment (1) Somewhat compromised in ability to appreciate and understand others’ experiences; may tend to see others as having unreasonable expectations or a wish for control. Although capable of considering and understanding different perspectives, resists doing so. Inconsistent is awareness of effect of own behavior on others.

Impaired (2) Hyper-attuned to the experience of others, but only with respect to perceived relevance to self. Excessively self-referential; significantly compromised ability to appreciate and understand others’ experiences and to consider alternative perspectives. Generally unaware of or unconcerned about effect of own behavior on others, or unrealistic appraisal of own effect.

Very Impaired (3) Ability to consider and understand the thoughts, feelings and behavior of other people is significantly limited; may discern very specific aspects of others’ experience, particularly vulnerabilities and suffering.  Generally unable to consider alternative perspectives; highly threatened by differences of opinion or alternative viewpoints. Confusion or unawareness of impact of own actions on others; often bewildered about peoples’ thoughts and actions, with destructive motivations frequently misattributed to others.

Extreme Impairment (4)  Pronounced inability to consider and understand others’ experience and motivation. Attention to others' perspectives virtually absent (attention is hypervigilant, focused on need-fulfillment and harm avoidance).  Social interactions can be confusing and disorienting.



Here is the scale for intimacy.  There are four scales in total

Healthy (0) -Maintains multiple satisfying and enduring relationships in personal and community life. Desires and engages in a number of caring, close and reciprocal relationships. Strives for cooperation and mutual benefit and flexibly responds to a range of others’ ideas, emotions and behaviors.

Mild impairment (1) -Able to establish enduring relationships in personal and community life, with some limitations on degree of depth and satisfaction.Capacity and desire to form intimate and reciprocal relationships, but may be inhibited in meaningful expression and sometimes constrained if intense emotions or conflicts arise. Cooperation may be inhibited by unrealistic standards; somewhat limited in ability to respect or respond to others’ ideas, emotions and behaviors.

Impaired (2) Capacity and desire to form relationships in personal and community life, but connections may be largely superficial. Intimate relationships are largely based on meeting self-regulatory and self-esteem needs, with an unrealistic expectation of being perfectly understood by others. Tends not to view relationships in reciprocal terms, and cooperates predominantly for personal gain.

Very Impaired (3) Some desire to form relationships in community and personal life is present, but capacity for positive and enduring connection is significantly impaired. Relationships are based on a strong belief in the absolute need for the intimate other(s), and/or expectations of abandonment or abuse.  Feelings about intimate involvement with others alternate between fear/rejection and desperate desire for connection. Little mutuality: others are conceptualized primarily in terms of how they affect the self (negatively or positively); cooperative efforts are often disrupted due to the perception of slights from others.

Extreme Impairment (4)  :)esire for affiliation is limited because of profound disinterest or expectation of harm.  Engagement with others is detached, disorganized or consistently negative. Relationships are conceptualized almost exclusively in terms of their ability to provide comfort or inflict pain and suffering. Social/interpersonal behavior is not reciprocal; rather, it seeks fulfillment of basic needs or escape from pain.

2 Negative Affectivity, characterized by:

• Emotional lability: Unstable emotional experiences and frequent mood changes; emotions that are easily aroused, intense, and/or out of proportion to events and circumstances.

• Anxiousness: Intense feelings of nervousness, tenseness, or panic, often in reaction to interpersonal stresses; worry about the negative effects of past unpleasant experiences and future negative possibilities; feeling fearful, apprehensive, or threatened by uncertainty; fears of falling apart or losing control.

• Separation insecurity: Fears of rejection by – and/or separation from – significant others, associated with fears of excessive dependency and complete loss of autonomy.

• Depressivity: Frequent feelings of being down, miserable, and/or hopeless; difficulty recovering from such moods; pessimism about the future; pervasive shame; feeling of inferior self-worth; thoughts of suicide and suicidal behavior.

3 Disinhibition, characterized by:

• Impulsivity: Acting on the spur of the moment in response to immediate stimuli; acting on a momentary basis without a plan or consideration of outcomes; difficulty establishing or following plans; a sense of urgency and self-harming behavior under emotional distress.

• Risk taking: Engagement in dangerous, risky, and potentially self-damaging activities, unnecessarily and without regard to consequences; lack of concern for one’s limitations and denial of the reality of personal danger.

4 Hostility:  Persistent or frequent angry feelings; anger or irritability in response to minor slights and insults.

 



If you have any questions about the disorder just ask.

Another helpful question to ask ourselves is in the face of these lists why did we stay if it was this bad?

[Wooddragon]

Strugglis list is ideatical to mine. I get that we need to focus on ourselves but for those like me who are having a really hard time disengaging & who no longer trust their own instincts - I think they can be useful if for no other reason than to confirm that there is someone out there who understands. My friends think that I have had a drawn out breakup. I try to explain to them but it sounds like I'm the crazy one. Why did I stay? Because when someone says that they love you & you take they as the starting point, it's just horrendous to have to convince yourself that they never did & also that everything they say now & all the memories are similarly tainted. Only other nons get it. Maybe we bond by comparing notes?

[GreenMango]

Link it to list Wooddragon.

Where do some of the things you experienced fit into the criteria?

Free all for venting (comparing notes) is co-ruminating.  This can lead into staying stuck.  Blanket generalizations about the disorder usually turn into bash fests.

PS I know its hard when someones words and actions don't match.  It hurts and in a freakish way doesn't make a lick of sense.  Doing this exercise might help give some answers.

[trevjim]

Its amazing how many points of peoples list are he same for mine, and yet somehow we all took this for normality

[GreenMango]

There is common BPD behavior.  Check out that link to the questions board.

Much of it circulated around these four things:

Lack of empathy, inability to maintain intimacy, lack of self direction and lack of identity.

The way it manifests varies by person.  If you look at what you experienced can you see those impairments in the person?

Also, when a person struggles with these things it can make for a horrible relationship full of all sorts of problems.

You bring up a good question... .  why was this normal or acceptable? Get to that and you are going places.

[Wooddragon]

I hear you green mango & I will do as you suggest. Right now I'm actually struggling myself to really believe what has happened. I think I'm coming to grips with the realisation that every bargaining tactic I have tried has failed.

[Wooddragon]

 Added - why did I tolerate it? Because without him in my life I feel intensely, incurably & distressingly lonely.

[GreenMango]

I hear you green mango & I will do as you suggest. Right now I'm actually struggling myself to really believe what has happened. I think I'm coming to grips with the realisation that every bargaining tactic I have tried has failed.

This is a very rough place to be trying to resolve that "gap" between what you felt and what happened.  The reality of the disorder can be very traumatizing.  I don't think you are alone in that disbelief.

Please consider starting a thread about it.  It's an important topic and one that many here walk or have walked in.

[apple]

Since chatting and reading these boards, I noticed a lot of behaviours of pwBPD can be similar in differant people's relationships.

How many of these does you BPD do or show?

1) seems to live or want a life of fantasy. For examples, wants the Hollywood relationship, or a fairytale one like Disney.

2) wants things they can't have, a bigger house, more luxurys etc, never seems happy with what they have.

3) has increased or decreased sex drive to what you would class as normal or healthy. Sometimes cries after sex.



4) object consistancy, wants to wear your clothes a lot, or take possessions of yours around with them.

5) texts or contacts member's of the opposite sex, sometimes exs a lot, and doesn't understand why you are not happy with that.

6) makes nasty comments about you, but in a friendly way, and sometimes comments about how good looking someone is. Does things to make you jelouse.

7) is lovely to people to their faces, but very btchey behind theyr backs.



8) stares at you wistfully, for example you could both be watching tv and she would keep looking at you.

This really hit home for me along with what others have mentioned like always fishing for compliments or looking for attention.

The "life of fantasy" and never being happy, wanting bigger house, car, vacation, $2000.00 handbags is where my exw resides.

The shows she watches, books she reads and people she relates too are all fantasy and very screwed up. She loved "sex in the city - a bunch of narcissists", "bachelorette", "Kardashians", reads books like "the notebook", "fifty shades of grey"

Once said she wished her mom was more like Kris Jenner - Narcissist

Favorite movie - Breakfast at tiffany's, holly go lightly - Poster child of BPD

Loves "PINK" and her new songs... .  which are about being BPD or rationalizations of why

[trouble11]

Holy crap GM ... .    read the impairment list several times and exbf is obviously off  the charts, but looks like I could fall under mildly impaired.  Damn ... .  I was having a good day too.  So if BPDs can occasionally recognize these things and not be able to fix them ... .  can I?  What does mildly impaired mean? 

[Changed4safety]

GreenMango, thanks for gently redirecting this--I was reading along and falling into the bashing trap. 

Trouble--it could be  , it's clear that some degree of harm is done to the non after being in a relationship with someone with BPD if it's long term (even if short).  I have a couple "mild," but I believe they are manifestations of the trauma bond in most cases and in others my co-dependency and the issues with my FOO that created it.

[lost007]

Forgetfulness. When it works to their advantage. I may apologize for something. Three days later she would say I never apologized. Trying to prove I did?-fruitless. And even if I did prove-she would say it wasn't heartfelt.

[GreenMango]

The scales range from 0 to 4. There needs to be at least a 2 in one impairment area from both categories... .  self (identity or self direction) and interpersonal (intimacy or empathy) along with the rest of the list of how it manifests.  When a professional diagnoses BPD they look at other things too its not as easy as the list only.

Any person can have traits.  They can surface during times of stress etc.  There are a lot of things that can affect your coping skills when it comes to "self" or "interpersonal".  Codependency, depression, anxiety, pd traits.  Unfortunately fleas are traits.

One of the things about the disorder or having traits is that its a long standing pattern.  It's pervasive affecting multiple relationships or areas of their life  Sometimes people can be subclinical with a few traits and have a life event that completely disabled their ability to cope and they deteriorate. 

Having awareness where your own personal traits are is good thing.  None of us a are perfect.  I know its not a pretty subject.  A willingness to address the less than great qualities about ourselves shows humility and courage.

[GreenMango]

This really hit home for me along with what others have mentioned like always fishing for compliments or looking for attention.

The "life of fantasy" and never being happy, wanting bigger house, car, vacation, $2000.00 handbags is where my exw resides.

The shows she watches, books she reads and people she relates too are all fantasy and very screwed up. She loved "sex in the city - a bunch of narcissists", "bachelorette", "Kardashians", reads books like "the notebook", "fifty shades of grey"

Once said she wished her mom was more like Kris Jenner - Narcissist Favorite movie - Breakfast at tiffany's, holly go lightly - Poster child of BPD

Loves "PINK" and her new songs... .  which are about being BPD or rationalizations of why

Link this to the list.   

[wanttoknowmore]

Thank you. This is not only informative ... it amusing. Its so true. The aches and pains in her arm disappear when intimate in bed and reappear when she has to go to work.

[navs]

a - keeps several people of the opposite sex on reserve as "friends"

b - promises/says one thing and does another - aka lying

c - sneaky, deceptive, omits information selectively

d - can completely disengage with no apparent sense of loss

e - cannot handle any serious conversation (i.e., confronting obstacles/disputes in relationship)

f - sex is for manipulation or pacification, not pleasure/intimacy

g - no expression of remorse

h - absorbs the most recent ideas expressed by anyone, not questioning the validity of the source or own values/beliefs.

i - redirects blame to the accuser (the SO who is confronting the misbehavior) - aka gaslighting

j - dissociates from SO: during sex, watching TV, in the presence of a third party

k - is desired romantically/sexually by many people (seductive, both physically and verbally, but without being overtly sexual)

l - will cross boundaries, push the envelope, get away with murder, but when SO (who has been so tolerant, hoping the partner who loves him so much will stop misbehaving) has one outburst, steps "out of line", expresses dissatisfaction, the SO becomes a villain. (splitting?)

j - was sexually and/or physically abused and/or was neglected/discarded by parents

k - wants a SO who provides security/stability/safety but does not reciprocate



Just based on my very specific experience... .  

We can't have married the same girl isn't it. This is exactly( repeat the word 'exactly' again) as my experiences with my BPD wife.

[WT]

This really hit home for me along with what others have mentioned like always fishing for compliments or looking for attention.

The "life of fantasy" and never being happy, wanting bigger house, car, vacation, $2000.00 handbags is where my exw resides.

The shows she watches, books she reads and people she relates too are all fantasy and very screwed up. She loved "sex in the city - a bunch of narcissists", "bachelorette", "Kardashians", reads books like "the notebook", "fifty shades of grey"

Once said she wished her mom was more like Kris Jenner - Narcissist

Favorite movie - Breakfast at tiffany's, holly go lightly - Poster child of BPD

Loves "PINK" and her new songs... .  which are about being BPD or rationalizations of why

The things that you've listed matches my ex almost 100%.  I'm literally amazed.  It makes me wonder how suspect I should be of some other girls that I know as to whether or not they might be BPD as well.

[Cumulus]

Hi green mango, I went through the DSM list that you posted. I know my XH has BPD. He was diagnosed by his family doctor and a psychiatrist. But if I didn't know that, and as an xw trying to figure out what caused so much of the pain in our relationship I wouldn't have been able to understand the DSM well enough to think, yes this is what he probably has. Knowing, being able to put a name on what caused him to act out, has brought me a certain measure of peace. I agree that going through a list of all his bad deeds is moving backward but I do think identifying certain behaviours that are frequently found in those dealing with this disorder would be helpful. A lay mans list if you will. Some of the things I dealt with were compulsive lying, affairs, unprotected sex, theft, inconsistent emotional attachment, ( one day loving, the next distant ), unprovoked rages, a rigidity in dealing with life issues.  Not that I need to compare, but my question in the beginning would have been, are these common in BPD or is this unlikely to be a result of the illness.

[GreenMango]

It's a mixed bag Cumulus.  Those behaviors you mentioned are very destructive to a relationship.

Ideally when exiting a relationship we can see where the behavior crosses boundaries.  The concern usually is when someone wants to pathologize a normal breakup or just one off kind of behavior looking to create a mental illness where they might not be one or mistaking general breakups with mental illness to feel vindicated... .  things like my ex liked porn star sex she/he's is BPD, my ex likes lollipops what about yours, has purple hair... .  things that don't have much to do with the deeper pervasive patterns partners usually deal with in a relationship of this kind.

It's a balance seeing where the deeper rooted problems were and grieving/detaching not getting stuck in the paralysis of analysis.

[struggli]

It's a mixed bag Cumulus.  Those behaviors you mentioned are very destructive to a relationship.

Ideally when exiting a relationship we can see where the behavior crosses boundaries.  The concern usually is when someone wants to pathologize a normal breakup or just one off kind of behavior looking to create a mental illness where they might not be one or mistaking general breakups with mental illness to feel vindicated... .  things like my ex liked porn star sex she/he's is BPD, my ex likes lollipops what about yours, has purple hair... .  things that don't have much to do with the deeper pervasive patterns partners usually deal with in a relationship of this kind.

It's a balance seeing where the deeper rooted problems were and grieving/detaching not getting stuck in the paralysis of analysis.

Yeah, sometimes I want to say that.  Some of the things that people chime in about sometimes don't seem to be an indication of BPD.  "Watches TV all the time"  "Looks at me a lot"  "Insists on driving to same way to the store even if there's a traffic jam"  Stuff like that.

Mine was a painter and had a lot of books.  I don't know if those would qualify as BPD traits.  I'm being sarcastic.  But maybe keeping guys following her around like puppy dogs while in a relationship, jumping from one relationship to the next seamlessly, etc, are more relevant.

[BlushAndBashful]

My list looks nothing like trevjim's, but a lot like struggli's, FWIW. In fact, you could point to me and say I fit trevjim's list a lot more than my ex did.

I found it helpful to compare notes about the similarities, primarily because I had no clue about BPD, and when I did google BPD, I glanced over lists and stories and went "nope, that's definitely not what's wrong here."

My ex is high functioning/invisible, so most of those   we are supposed to watch for were non-existent. He didn't cut, didn't rage, was (for the most part) stable, he had a great job and was cool as a cucumber.  I think I need that verification in my brain and heart  that he has BPD and I wasn't imagining all this stuff. I know he has it (got a real dx and everything) but I didn't 100% in my mind KNOW it.

And yes, I do agree that many, MANY times people try to take every single trait of their exes and pin it on BPD. From being a slob to bad driving to not being able to cook to leaving the cap off the toothpaste. Just because she compulsively got her nails done every week or never flossed doesn't make someone mentally ill.

On the other hand, there are some things that aren't precisely listed in the criteria that sure seem to have a lot of prevelance in our r/s. For example, lying. Lying is not uncommon and I suspect that a few in my past have told me some fibs- but nothing to the extreme level that my BPDex did. When I say "he was lying every time his lips moved" that's not too much of an exaggeration. Another is compartmentalization- we were together for 8 years, 2 of them married, and I was STILL not allowed near any of his friends or family- not even for weddings or holidays. Let's not even start with the unhealthy obsession for his ex and the secret r/s he had with her for the entirety of our r/s.

[GreenMango]

Good points Mauser.

Compartmentalization can be tied to when a person has a lack of self-direction or inconsistent identity if it was a long standing pattern of interaction that negatively affects the well-being of a person in multiple areas of their life.

It's probably good to point out the DSM as a clinical tool gives the criteria, but mental health professionals are trained to analyze the nuances of the behavior, look for long standing patterns, look for those poor coping skills ... .  the real time behavior of a troubled person can look quite a bit different than a clinical list.  The list leaves much to be desired, but then again it isn't really for us everyday folk.  It's better to get a good gauge on healthy, appropriate behavior and go from there.

Compartmentalization (psychology)

"Compartmentalization is an unconscious psychological defense mechanism used to avoid cognitive dissonance, or the mental discomfort and anxiety caused by a person's having conflicting values, cognitions, emotions, beliefs, etc. within themselves.

Compartmentalization allows these conflicting ideas to co-exist by inhibiting direct or explicit acknowledgement and interaction between separate compartmentalized self states." Tangney. Leary, Mark R. Leary and Price, June. ed. Handbook of self and identity. Guilford Press. pp. 58–61. ISBN 978-1-4625-0305-6.

The irony is you don't have to have BPD to have poor coping skills like compartmentalization.  Another strange tidbit, when a person's stable mental functioning is dependent on compartmentalizing then it makes sense that lying would follow suit because it protects the compartments.  Kind of like "A house divided against itself cannot stand"