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Author Topic: Feminist Psyciatrist - "There is no such thing as BPD"  (Read 6367 times)
PrettyPlease
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« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2013, 03:11:10 PM »

... .  I've been grateful that a label and a place like this exist, as without them I would still be wallowing in shame and accepting the projections.

+1  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

... .  the name sure helped me. It helped me to find this support group, it helped me to do my own research and find the best treatments, it even helped the fine folks who put this website together organize specific tools designed just for patient's with BPD!

+1   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

The label of "BPD" has helped me a great deal in understanding what was actually motivating her and guiding her perceptions.  It has helped me to put into focus these past 7-plus years of my life in a way that I never could have attained without all that I've learned about this disorder.  It has allowed me to separate my world from hers, truth from fiction, and to get a much clearer picture on what truly are and are not the things in myself that I need to change.

These are all extraordinarily good outcomes of the label.  I don't see any benefit in discounting the value in that.

+1   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

My own experience was decades of wallowing between the uBPDs accusations and my own involvement. I gradually did my own research, found the name BPD, found this site, and then reading the "How A BPD love relationship evolves" article was so chillingly accurate that I couldn't avoid all the other learning I had to do. :-)

Labels... .  are words... .  and words are malleable entities with lifetimes of hundreds or thousands of years, created by humans and changed by humans. 'BPD' was useful to me, and clearly has been useful to others. It may be superseded at some point by something more accurate, but it gave me what I needed. As long as we realize that any word is an abstraction and abstractions can be used well or badly by anyone (hint: try thinking of how your pwBPD used words), we can learn to use them well... .   OK, well, some people can.   Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #61 on: February 24, 2013, 03:19:00 PM »

I disagree with the psychiatrist assertion that BPD doesn’t exist, frankly I think that is ridiculous. We have 10’s of thousands of stories on this website that describe very similar symptoms, signs and behaviors and as a normal human function we put a label on it. Just like everyone calls the machine that heats up bread in a little slot a toaster, we call these similar behaviors BPD.

I can speak for me and for others that went through a relationship with what is labeled a silent or waif type BPD. We didn’t take abuse, or raging and frankly would have no clue of the level of deception that was going on until the end. So for us, the idea that we should have known better is a bit simplistic. Lying cheating whore is what the non-clinical label is for my ex. I came here wanting to understand what makes a person like that tick.

At this point I am not on here anymore for answers… I get it now. I hope to add to the discussion and maybe give some insight to those that are still hurting. But in some way, even though I am not still here for answers, the only reason I am here is because of the ex and in some way that maintains a connection to a long gone past. For most of us I think there has to be a time to just move on from all that was, including here.

The point you mention, in regards of story similarity between 10,000s of stories here is the KEY to the confirmation that a thing like BPD exists, and that the 1) clinging/pedestal phase 2)hate phase etc. exists in our relationships and that detachment of this is a lot harder than a normal r/s.

I think the female psychiatrist got stood up by someone with BPD and can't get rid of the fact that that happened and puts her blame on her patients ^_^
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« Reply #62 on: February 24, 2013, 04:08:44 PM »

Could very well be the case, harmkrakow.  And yes, the idealization, followed by clinging and finally by devaluing seems to be a universal process when in a r/s with a pwBPD.
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« Reply #63 on: February 24, 2013, 04:26:08 PM »

I feel the label is pointless in our desire to heal. The label is a diagnostic tool keep track of a patient with a specific set of long term emotional problems. It helps to keep track of whether or not specific treatments are helpful in improving their lives.

Our problems are mostly about learning to let go of a r/s that was unhealthy for us and what kept us in it. What can we do now to attract healthier partners?
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« Reply #64 on: February 24, 2013, 05:06:27 PM »

I feel the label is pointless in our desire to heal. The label is a diagnostic tool keep track of a patient with a specific set of long term emotional problems. It helps to keep track of whether or not specific treatments are helpful in improving their lives.

But doesn't healing involve sorting through our experiences and trying to make sense of it?  :)oes it not include trying to understand what troubles we should attribute directly to ourselves and those which we should not?

If my uxBPDw says the relationship ended because I am the most terrible, pathetic, worthless human being that has ever existed... .  then the question does not immediately become "why did I tolerate this so long?"  The first question to ask is "is she right?  Am I really all of those things, or must I consider the source of these statements in my self-evaluation?"

Gaining a better understanding of the lens through which she saw me gives me a better understanding of how to interpret her perceptions of me.  This understanding is imperative to my self-examination.  It is not a matter of looking for an easy way out by blaming her - it is a matter of trying to process everything as thoroughly and honestly as I can so that I can acquire from all of this the right lessons, and not the wrong ones.

You say we should attract "healthier partners", but doesn't that necessitate "labeling" our previous partners as unhealthy?  I take the idea of designating someone that I love (and is very critical of me) as "mentally and emotionally unhealthy" very seriously... .  and I would not do so with confidence if not for all of the evidence laid out so clearly in front of me.  The existence of that evidence is in part due to people acknowledging the patterns of this behavioral phenomenon, connecting those dots, and being willing to put a label upon it.

The label may not be helpful to some, but I think the manner in which it can help others is certainly understandable.
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« Reply #65 on: February 24, 2013, 05:20:01 PM »

And yes, the idealization, followed by clinging and finally by devaluing seems to be a universal process when in a r/s with a pwBPD.

Maybe, but couldn't the same be said for a LOT of 'normal' failed relationships, too?
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« Reply #66 on: February 24, 2013, 05:28:46 PM »

And yes, the idealization, followed by clinging and finally by devaluing seems to be a universal process when in a r/s with a pwBPD.

Maybe, but couldn't the same be said for a LOT of 'normal' failed relationships, too?

yes and no those seem to be more prevalent with BPD relationships. any phase can be brought into failed healthy relationships but from what i learned its a common thing with pwBPD because many repeat this over and over with different partners. healthy relationships fail for many reasons lost of love, life religious differences and on and on. from what i learned BPD seem to move fast somehow someone breaks their prefect image they split devalue and move on to another. healthy people don't always do that a healthy person can see shade of grey.

Is that not what an illness is following a pattern of traits that make up a criteria whether its mental or not. if you believe any failed relationship follows these patterns and not a source of emotional irregularity then why be here why be on this site why this site at all.
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« Reply #67 on: February 24, 2013, 05:52:57 PM »

Absolutely not. The vast majority of posters on this board have uBPD as a SO(not me btw). Why do you need to focus on your partner to heal yourself? Are you really looking to offer no hope for healing to someone with a uBPD partner. It is something nearly everybody on the boards struggles with. SOs, siblings, parents, friends. We didn't manage our boundaries and were hurt emotionally in a big enough way to start posting on these boards. How to recognize and manage emotional attachments better in the future is helpful. Stuck wondering why it happened doesn't lead to better solutions. Understanding when they started treating us badly and how we reacted to it and what to do better leads to positive emotional growth.I admit this is only my opinion. It can be taken as useful or ignored.

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« Reply #68 on: February 24, 2013, 05:56:54 PM »

I feel the label is pointless in our desire to heal. The label is a diagnostic tool keep track of a patient with a specific set of long term emotional problems. It helps to keep track of whether or not specific treatments are helpful in improving their lives.

Our problems are mostly about learning to let go of a r/s that was unhealthy for us and what kept us in it. What can we do now to attract healthier partners?

You say we should attract "healthier partners"

Healthier partners for us.  We all have different tolerance levels.  What I find acceptable behavior, someone else may not and vice versa.  We all plugged into the dysfunction with our loved ones because of our own issues.  Why do we point fingers at others so often rather than pointing them at ourselves?  Why is that easier?

I'm not talking about anyone specific here on this thread... .  , but in general, many people that find their way to this forum have codependent tendencies, depression, they lack a sense of self etc... .   I happen to be one of those people.  I WASN'T HEALTHY PARTNER MATERIAL EITHER.  But here I was, looking for a label to attach to someone else.

And yes, this site has helped... .  me.  bpdfamily/bpdfamily.com continues to help me focus on my own distorted perceptions.  My own dysfunction.  My own wacky ways of relating to other people.  And I don't have BPD.  But I plugged right into it... .  

Why?  That is the question I had to ask myself.  Why did I plug into it? 
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« Reply #69 on: February 24, 2013, 05:59:50 PM »

everyone has to find there own way if the label helps it helps if it doesn't it does not. in the beginning for me it helps now i am working on why i choose to stay and why i still want her when i know she is the forbidden fruit but my phase is learning why i do this the label helped me but that's me. everyone needs to find there way getting stuck in any phase and not growing is sad because we are here to heal and move on. So let what ever helps you help you and move on if you so choose but be happy and healthy that's the key.
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« Reply #70 on: February 24, 2013, 06:07:11 PM »

At this point I am not on here anymore for answers… I get it now. I hope to add to the discussion and maybe give some insight to those that are still hurting. But in some way, even though I am not still here for answers, the only reason I am here is because of the ex and in some way that maintains a connection to a long gone past. For most of us I think there has to be a time to just move on from all that was, including here.

I agree. Being a year out, I can have days of complete detachment. No thinking about the ex. No monitoring of my mind and body for signs of PTSD. Just joyfull living in the actual moment. When you do reach a point of understanding what it was and don't need any more answers, a bigger picture view of what just happened establishes itself.

A lot the older philosophical teachings begin to make sense - including that old addage "No-one can hurt you without your permission". And I think this is where Feminist Psychiatrist might have something. Our own damage is what allowed us to stay so long in an unrewarding r/ship. And our own codependency / other directedness keeps us stuck long after it's over. Our sense of self is completely dependent upon the opinions or beliefs of other people, so we are decimated when that is unknown or changes to something negative.

I must admit, that my obsession with my exBPD was not my first experience with this time of break-up reaction. So that automatically plants the seed of doubt as to whether I can attribute PD to ex as a means to finding closure. In my gut, I know that my issues were as great or greater than his. But as we admit to learning about our own schemas and issues, surely there is room to entertain the possibility that our ex's issues are just as real - and probably BPD.

I am not convinced that labelling it is a bad thing. It is a spectrum disorder, with grades and variabilities, but still a disorder. Naming it does not necessarily admonish our part in the dance or the work we need to do on ourselves to recover from it.

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« Reply #71 on: February 24, 2013, 06:17:13 PM »

Nice post. How does understanding our partner's problem lead to better emotional health for ourselves? I've thought about it a good deal I assure everyone. Other then soothing my ego nothing much else came of it. I had real problems. Some of them I'm still working through. The more I work through my problems the less I worry about my exes. I am absolutely certain this is a good thing.   Smiling (click to insert in post)

At this point I am not on here anymore for answers… I get it now. I hope to add to the discussion and maybe give some insight to those that are still hurting. But in some way, even though I am not still here for answers, the only reason I am here is because of the ex and in some way that maintains a connection to a long gone past. For most of us I think there has to be a time to just move on from all that was, including here.

I agree. Being a year out, I can have days of complete detachment. No thinking about the ex. No monitoring of my mind and body for signs of PTSD. Just joyfull living in the actual moment. When you do reach a point of understanding what it was and don't need any more answers, a bigger picture view of what just happened establishes itself.

A lot the oldest philosophical teachings begin to make sense - including that old addage "No-one can hurt you without your permission". And I think this is where Feminist Psychiatrist might have something. Our own damage is what allowed us to stay so long in an unrewarding r/ship. And our own codependency / other directedness keeps us stuck long after it's over. Our sense of self is completely dependent upon the opinions or beliefs of other people, so we are decimated when that is unknown or changes to something negative.

I must admit, that my obsession with my exBPD was not my first experience with this time of break-up reaction. So that automatically plants the seed of doubt as to whether I can attribute PD to ex as a means to finding closure. In my gut, I know that my issues were as great or greater than his. But as we admit to learning about our own schemas and issues, surely there is room to entertain the possibility that our ex's issues are just as real - and probably BPD.

I am not convinced that labelling it is a bad thing. It is a spectrum disorder, with grades and variabilities, but still a disorder. Naming it does not necessarily admonish our part in the dance or the work we need to do on ourselves to recover from it.

Bb12

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« Reply #72 on: February 24, 2013, 06:25:41 PM »

Absolutely OTH. All of this BPD trauma... .  the inability to make sense of things like the discard, the painting black, splitting, silent treatment... .  is real. We are absolutely right to be stuck in 'understanding' for a time and it is perhaps natural to focus on the ex (and not ourselves) as we go through this stage. BPDs make the r/ship about them and they ensure ongoing supply even after the break-up by doing some hurtful and illogical things.

But there needs to come a point where they barely feature in our healing... .  where understanding our partner's problem is acknowledged and parked.

Ruin really is the road to transformation - as Eat Pray Love states - and this is the part of the journey we need to run with as we heal issues that are far longer standing than this latest relationship.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #73 on: February 24, 2013, 06:44:54 PM »

How does understanding our partner's problem lead to better emotional health for ourselves?

Like this: there's an old medical saying 'the doctor takes the pressure off the patient and the patient heals themselves'.

I came here, identified two people that I was in a bad BPD-type pattern with, read about the detaching tools (essentially: validating, becoming boring, and expecting extinction and going through it), and within a WEEK I had solved two major r/s issues in my life (two months later: one of the people is gone and probably for good, the other is no longer triggering and we're maintaining LC without trouble).

I could do this because I could identify the two other people as both being uBPD, and try the tools on them. They worked exactly as predicted.

Now that the pressure is off, I am working on myself to see how I get myself into these things.

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« Reply #74 on: February 24, 2013, 06:59:46 PM »

The topic is about whether or not BPD should be labeled as a disorder with a name BPD and whether BPD even exists. My opinon is that yes BPD should be labeled and yes BPD exists. I' ll focus on that. This topic is getting very muddy, and circular, so thats all from me. Peace. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #75 on: February 24, 2013, 07:24:56 PM »

How about this:

The simple act of labeling our partners as some form of unhealthy may not carry implicit value for us.  But can we not agree that such a label in turn allows us to view quite clearly that our relationship was unhealthy?

If it were not for my understanding of this disorder, I could possibly fall into the trap of looking back at my relationship as a torrid, romantic, heartbreaking, Hollywood type of thing... .  from which the only lesson I could obtain is that I was in fact unworthy of something so beautiful.

At this point, then, I could possibly just feel utterly worthless, an irreconcilable sense of loss, and I may simply be praying to the heavens that I may someday replace what I had lost.

Instead, through readings and my discussions with the many people here, I have gotten to a point where I can look at such a perspective as embarrassingly foolish and naive.  That relationship was severely troubled, and it was unhealthy in a million ways.  I can see that not just by "diagnosing" my partner as being BPD, but by diagnosing my relationship as one completely emblematic of so many described here.

My focus upon myself, then, can shift to very meaningful things like "codependent" and "overly reliant upon others for self-worth".  That seems preferable to my focus upon myself being things like "unworthy" and "pathetic".

One path is me looking at the relationship (and hopefully myself) honestly, and the other is me still being mired in and indulging all of my most damaging traits that got me into the relationship in the first place.  One is a path to healing, and the other is in the exact wrong direction.  Seeing my relationship as "a relationship involving BPD" has helped me to understand the emergent dysfunctional patterns in that relationship, and that, in turn, has helped me a great deal to find the better path towards healing and meaningful self-examination.
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« Reply #76 on: February 24, 2013, 07:36:53 PM »

Or to put it more simply:

It may not be a matter of saying that she was BPD... .  

rather, it's a matter of saying that I confused a dysfunctional relationship with someone with BPD as being love.

Even if I am focusing upon myself, that acknowledgement of BPD allows the focus to begin in a more real and meaningful place.
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« Reply #77 on: February 24, 2013, 07:41:02 PM »

Or to put it more simply:

It may not be a matter of saying that she was BPD... .  

rather, it's a matter of saying that I confused a dysfunctional relationship with someone with BPD as being love.

Even if I am focusing upon myself, that acknowledgement of BPD allows the focus to begin in a more real and meaningful place.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  I like it!  It's really helped me Smiling (click to insert in post)  I think I'd substitute BPD for Cluster B though; I was married to a narcissist
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« Reply #78 on: February 24, 2013, 09:00:50 PM »

Staff only

This thread has reached it's page limit.

Thank you for participating.
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