Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
January 20, 2021, 02:36:30 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
  Help!   Groups   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Books members most read
105
The High
Conflict Couple
Loving Someone with
Borderline Personality Disorder
Loving the
Self-Absorbed
Borderline Personality
Disorder Demystified

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Feminist Psyciatrist - "There is no such thing as BPD"  (Read 6371 times)
Scott44
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 136


« on: February 21, 2013, 02:13:05 PM »

One psychiatrist I had told me that I should, "Stop focusing on my ex wife's diagnosis of BPD".  This self-proclaimed feminist psychiatrist told me that, "the label of BPD is simply a research tool, and should never be applied to a real individual or to an actual relationship in the real world".

This psychiatrist told me that people who use the diagnosis of BPD to explain failed relationships are simply trying to "pathologize their former partners in order to relieve themselves of the responsibility for the failed relationship".  She would consider most of the people posting here on bpdfamily.com to be self-indugent and cruel in their attempt to analyze their relationships through the filter of a diagnostic label (i.e., BPD).

This feminist psychiatrist also told me to stop blaming the unhealthiness of our relationship on my ex's brutal physical violence, rages, and manipulation.

Instead, I was told to examine my own cruelty in reaching out to another woman and having an emotional affair.

My social worker believes that the emotional affair was a symptom of a very unhealthy relationship with an emotionally immature individual (i.e., someone with BPD).  This seems to be more in line with the use of the term BPD here on bpdfamily.com.

But I keep asking myself, "What if there is no such thing as BPD?"  If that is true, my defensive behavior when dealing with my ex is appalling.  I have no excuse nor reason for my own pathological behavior.

What if, in the real world, there is no such thing as BPD?   
Logged
trevjim
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 368



« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2013, 02:22:37 PM »

I asked a simliar question here once, because for me I almost want my ex to have BPD because then I gain a sense of closure through the explanation of here actions.

What it came down to was she may or may not have BPD, but she certainly wasn't normal or healthy, so the quote 'if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck" is one way to put it.

BPD or not, there is some sort of disorder there.
Logged
charred
*******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1206



« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2013, 02:27:45 PM »

Sounds like denial on the part of the Psychiatrist.

Watch the Jodi Arias trial on TV... .  I am sure she is normal and just had a bad day.

I can see why a Psychiatrist wouldn't want to admit to it... .  there is little they can do for it, and just as pwBPD are a problem for us, they are for the T's as well.

Usually when you have to point out someone is a "Feminist" anything... .  they are off base somehow.

Logged
Want2know
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 2936



WWW
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2013, 02:39:02 PM »

I think some of the things she was saying are valid, such as focusing more on yourself than her behavior.  However, her conclusions on whether or not BPD exist are opinions, only. 

As trevjim said, regardless if it is BPD or not, she was not mentally healthy.  There is some piece of truth to us not being fully mentally healthy, too, or we would have not engaged or continued as long as we did with our pwBPD.

It's good to understand their behavior as long as it does not take the focus off your primary goal of personal growth and good mental health.
Logged

“The path to heaven doesn't lie down in flat miles. It's in the imagination with which you perceive this world, and the gestures with which you honor it." ~ Mary Oliver
Rose Tiger
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 2075



« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2013, 02:46:16 PM »

You do have to work through the abuse that happened, a person can't just go, oh well, la la la.  Especially through the anger part of grieving.  Lots of feelings to work through during recovery.  When I would occasionally entertain thoughts of getting a beau since my then hubby was ignoring me, I realized, hey I keep picking disordered people to hook up with in relationships.  I thought, ok, the last thing I need is a disordered spouse and a disordered boyfriend.  Put the kabash on those thoughts.

That's when I started digging into WHY do I keep hooking up with the same types?  Sweet and charming at first and then abusive and cruel to me.  And why didn't I walk at the first sign of trouble?
Logged
TheDude
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 227


« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2013, 02:53:20 PM »

I dunno. Sometimes I think that maybe nobody really has all the intricacies of humanity figured out. If we look back not all that long ago, people were routinely lobotomized. Think "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". One has to wonder what today will look like to those 30 years in the future. Maybe they'll have a bunch of holographic 'apps' that cures all that ails us emotionally. Or maybe an "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" thing.

In any case, the Psychiatrist you mention may very well have had at least one legitimate point in there. That's in the idea that too much focus or obsession on what's 'wrong' with someone else distracts from the one thing we can actually do something about - ourselves. We're all dealing with a great deal of strife and pain. Regardless of what "diagnosis" we attach to anyone else, we ultimately cannot fix or rescue them. How many exceptions to that notion do we see?

That said, I know... .  it all feels awful. It's a struggle. I have a very long road ahead of me, myself. Having a cursory overview of why her behavior is the way it is has helped to make some sense of why such confusing things have repeatedly happened, but I really don't want to find myself ruminating over HER issues indefinitely. She's broken. I can't fix her. That's the only diagnosis I hope to have of her in the future. Eventually... .  
Logged
MaybeSo
Distinguished Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Together five years, ended suddenly June 2011
Posts: 3680


Players only love you when they're playing...


« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2013, 03:06:50 PM »

Agree with The Dude,

It takes two to tango. A relationship has it's own entity... .  both people make a contribution, good and bad. An overriding focus on just one persons pathology can become a comforting distraction from our own contributing issues. This website actually does promote a shift from focus on the "BPD" partner to a focus on ourselves. It can take a while on Leaving Board to make that shift, but on the Staying Board it's promoted pretty readily all the way along.
Logged

almost789
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 783


« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2013, 03:33:47 PM »

Psychiatrist "no such thing as BPD"

You know that some psychiatrists are pathologic themselves right? Just because they have a degree behind there name doesn't make them God, nor does it make them sane either. Nor does it make them know it alls, or effective. I would never go back to a psychiatrist who says there's no such thing as BPD. Now, I do believe that many people make excuses for their SO's problem thinking they have BPD, when they actually don't.
Logged
charred
*******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1206



« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2013, 03:44:11 PM »

My T is a psychologist rather than a psychiatrist... .  and I feel lucky in that he dated a pwBPD and has been down the same road I have, suspect that is good luck.

Getting a diagnosis of BPD out of a T is probably hard ... .  I know my exBPDgf could act well enough to make most people believe whatever she wanted them to believe. She only seemed genuine when totally pathetic and down, or when raging with hatred... .  rest of the time is seemed like an act. If you saw someone an hour at a time maybe twice a week... .  it is doubtful you would see a pwBPD's true colors if they didn't want you to, in my opinion.

You can focus on your side of the r/s and improving yourself as others suggest... .  but psychology is not math... it doesn't have provable unambiguous answers... .  and many people go in to the fields they do, because of their own problems and the quest to answering their own questions.
Logged
willy45
Formerly "johnnyorganic", "rjh45", "SurferDude"
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 762



« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2013, 04:25:45 PM »

I think it is useful as a label to understand patterns of behavior. I really didn't understand what was going on when I was in the RS. Reading some of the stories of people here, the patterns start to make sense. Every snowflake is different, but they are still snowflakes. Words can never fully express the entirety of a situation. A label is just a label. But without labels and without words, we can't understand anything. A label is useful to understand patterns. Once you can see those patterns, things start to make sense and to understand that we aren't alone.

If this label didn't fit, none of here would be reading stories and saying: "Holy Sh*t, were dating the same person?" That is what has been the most interesting thing for me. To see that others have had the exact same experience.

I struggle with the term abuse. I really do. Was my ex abusive as both T's I have been to see tell me? Or was she just moody? Am I too sensitive? Was it my fault? Without owning the label of abuse, I fall into the blaming category. I beat myself up. I feel like I caused it.

And you know what? That is a pattern that many people on this board seem to fall under. We all seem to fall into that. And that is what we need to work on. And having a label is kind of helpful because it allows us to seek out others who have been through it and get some guidance.

Honestly, your psychiatrist sounds awful. Totally terrible. Don't listen to her. If you were a woman and you went to a psychiatrist and told them that you had been beaten, raged at, kicked, manipulated, that psychiatrist would probably call the police (Some states require that).
Logged
Rose1
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 963


« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2013, 04:45:18 PM »

Exactly - find a new one. ExBPD's current w is studying psych - and having read one of her disjointed emails and seen her rage at my D, I'm amazed that she hasn't seen a diagnosis when she got to B in her studies of mental aberrations - she might have picked up on BPDh's problems too instead of considering him only "fragile".  Smiling (click to insert in post)

BTW exBPDh has been diagnosed BPD and bi polar by two separate medical professionals - both of them experienced with mental illness. His W says he is just "fragile".
Logged
just me.
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 188


« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2013, 04:49:19 PM »

I think it is useful as a label to understand patterns of behavior. I really didn't understand what was going on when I was in the RS. Reading some of the stories of people here, the patterns start to make sense. Every snowflake is different, but they are still snowflakes. Words can never fully express the entirety of a situation. A label is just a label. But without labels and without words, we can't understand anything. A label is useful to understand patterns. Once you can see those patterns, things start to make sense and to understand that we aren't alone.

I agree with johnnyorganic.  Some people are so resistant to labeling things that it undermines the ability to properly understand what is going on.

A health professional should examine situations critically, but should also be open-minded enough to properly consider the information placed before them.  The relationships described here are not "normal dysfunctional" relationships, and clearly show a striking degree of similarity to one another.  It would be unscientific to conclude that this is not representative of some genuine phenomenon.

The disorder may not be the exact same BPD that affects many of the people that actually seek help for the condition, and perhaps the label should be different.  But to dismiss the phenomenon altogether as just "people rebuking personal responsibility" strikes me as opinionated and counter-productive simple-mindedness.

I am quite certain that if she had actually gone through one of these relationships that she would be more open to appreciating the strangeness therein.  People who flippantly disregard the possibility of genuine neuroses and psychoses do not seem ideally suited to be psychiatrists.  Don't let her credentials get to you.  She may have learned a lot in school, but we all learn a great deal in this life one way or another.  You, personally, are a better expert on what you have seen, heard, and felt than anyone.  You should listen to others, but you should still trust in yourself.
Logged
MakeItHappen
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 116


« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2013, 05:03:31 PM »

If this label didn't fit, none of here would be reading stories and saying: "Holy Sh*t, were dating the same person?" That is what has been the most interesting thing for me. To see that others have had the exact same experience.

Yes! That's the part that HAS convinced me that my ex must have BPD. It's as if I had been reading my own journal entries but, it was everyone else's stories that we're identical. 

VERY glad to have found this site.

Logged

waitaminute
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 340


« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2013, 05:31:05 PM »

Call whatever she likes ... "Fred"

There is a pattern of behavior that can be summarized as "fred"

She has "fred"

There were less clinical names for that type of behavior before the psychologists gave it a name. They were not very complementary.
Logged
turtle
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: I am happily single -- live alone and love it.
Posts: 5313


WWW
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2013, 06:14:56 PM »

There were less clinical names for that type of behavior before the psychologists gave it a name. They were not very complementary.

So true... .  I've used a few of those "less clinical" names over the years.

turtle

Logged

Iced
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 115


« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2013, 06:28:41 PM »

Not directed at anyone in particular:

BPD or no BPD, I always wondered why can't people simply say, "You know what?  No two people in this entire world are completely alike - even identical twins - and there are people who are exhibit A, B, and C qualities and traits and behaviors and there are people who exhibit X, Y, and Z qualities and traits and behaviors and it isn't a crime or even a surprise if two people can't make things work out between themselves and are incompatible."

It's like... .  there always needs to be a 'proper' excuse for why things work or don't work... .  including why relationships - intimate or otherwise - fail.

A person with BPD ISN'T ALWAYS WRONG.  My friend - as much as their behavior was very impulsive at times and lacked more commonly accepted reason or rationale - was not always 'wrong' about their conclusions or decisions.

And a person without BPD ISN'T ALWAYS RIGHT, EITHER.  In the course of my friendship, I made a few mistakes myself along the way.

Related to this, why do people have such a hard time breaking away from relationships that have long since turned sour and beyond repair (repair meaning ALL INVOLVED PARTIES pitching in)?

Also, why are people so prone to taking it all upon themselves to fix every. single. thing. - including things not necessarily theirs to fix?

Let's not label anybody but instead talk about a characteristic and a behavior.

How about being able to reason and being able to see two sides of a picture?

BPD or not and speaking very frankly, in my honest opinion, it would be very difficult to have a stable relationship with someone if - every single time there is some sort of a misunderstanding or a conflict - one person is always insisting that their way that they see things is the only way regardless of whatever 'proof' or 'evidence' that may be presented otherwise.

"YOU WON'T PICK UP THE PHONE; YOU HATE ME!"

"I was in a conference/I was in the middle of lecture hall at school, picking up the phone is unfortunately not something I can do right away, but I did call you back as soon as the [insert event here] was over because I know the phone call was important."

"BUT YOU STILL DIDN'T PICK UP THE PHONE WHEN I CALLED!  YOU HATE ME!"

*cues continuing argument*

"I HATE YOU, I HATE YOU, I HATE YOUR GUTS AND I WISH YOU WERE DEAD!"

"... .  Well if you hate me that much and I make you that miserable, then, then maybe we ought to consider distancing ourselves from each other."

"NOO!"

*cues continuing argument*

... .  Yeah.  Just... .  NO.

Relationships = a LOT of communication and if that is what 'communication' consists of - especially during the more challenging times, why is there so much difficulty in regards to realizing that, "If the communication isn't happening and there isn't any help from everyone involved in getting it to happen, then maybe this relationship is not going to work out." and why is there so much guilt when the realization is made?

Does everyone believe that EVERY SINGLE RELATIONSHIP regardless of what the parties involved are enduring can be saved and that the entire responsibility is on their shoulders or what?
Logged
willy45
Formerly "johnnyorganic", "rjh45", "SurferDude"
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 762



« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2013, 11:41:16 PM »

Iced,

You totally nailed it.

The label and pattern is useful but no as a way of demonizing someone but a way of understanding a certain pattern. And it is OK to say that pattern is not going to work.

Yes. Communication is key. My ex used to always say that we had communication problems and that we should seek councilling. I was scared ___less of going to councilling with her because I just figured it was going to be another way of being told about what I was doing was wrong. My ex was very smart and very seductive and charming. I figured if we went to councilling that she would be her charming, chearpy self and that the raging lunatic wouldn't show up. And then all her complaints about my being uncommitted, my tone of voice, my waking up late, my not integrating her into my family, my not being 'nice' to her, would all be confirmed by the councillor and would allow her to rage at me even more.

I didn't know what was wrong at the time. But I was sure that we didn't have communication issues. She had issues in terms of resolving conflict. Her way of resolving conflict was to yell and scream and cry and have temper tantrums. And to call them conflicts is a real stretch. Because the reasons she would rage and freak out at me where never 'conflicts'. A 'conflict' implies two people that have opposing points of view. Our 'conflicts' had to do with me rolling over in bed, me being groggy in the morning, me petting a dog, me not wanting to take a bike on the metro, me being 5 minutes late picking her up from work, me not using the right 'tone', me getting upset when she would rage at me, me not sitting down next to her properly, me not liking a certain movie.

So, yes. I think it is important to not demonize but to acknowledge that a relationship simply will NEVER work unless two people can sit down together with enough respect to listen and not assume that any complaint or problem is a threat to the relationship.

But, knowing more about BPD is helpful. It is helpful for me anyways to see that if someone displays these kinds of patterns, that there was really nothing I could have done about it, short of just giving up and being a broken puppy dog and just doing everything that she wanted. Most of the time she wouldn't even know what she wanted. But she sure would get mad at me for not knowing what she wanted. It was crazy.
Logged
GustheDog
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 348



« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2013, 11:57:01 PM »

One psychiatrist I had told me that I should, "Stop focusing on my ex wife's diagnosis of BPD".  This self-proclaimed feminist psychiatrist told me that, "the label of BPD is simply a research tool, and should never be applied to a real individual or to an actual relationship in the real world".

This psychiatrist told me that people who use the diagnosis of BPD to explain failed relationships are simply trying to "pathologize their former partners in order to relieve themselves of the responsibility for the failed relationship".  She would consider most of the people posting here on bpdfamily.com to be self-indugent and cruel in their attempt to analyze their relationships through the filter of a diagnostic label (i.e., BPD).

This feminist psychiatrist also told me to stop blaming the unhealthiness of our relationship on my ex's brutal physical violence, rages, and manipulation.

Instead, I was told to examine my own cruelty in reaching out to another woman and having an emotional affair.

What if, in the real world, there is no such thing as BPD?   

Echoing the others, you will need to turn the focus to yourself eventually to heal.  To the extent that your P is encouraging this exercise, no harm done.

On the other hand, BPD is a recognized cluster-B disorder, about which much academic and practical scholarship has been produced and which disorder is included in the DSM.  If your P is suggesting that the DSM is not entitled to deference in terms of representing the majority view in the field as to legitimate mental disorders, you are dealing with someone on the very far-out, radical fringes of the profession.

I am not a mental-health professional, but I can tell you how I'd respond if a friend told me his lawyer didn't "believe" in the Rules of Evidence.

I'd tell him to seek new counsel, and fast.
Logged
Maryiscontrary
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 504


« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2013, 06:17:27 AM »

Guys, I think BPD, NPD ect is overall very derogatory. What these are are attachment disorders. BPD is classified as disorganized and NPD is classified as avoidant. These description, if you read about them, are much more accurate, and not so derogatory.
Logged
jdcthunder14
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 137



« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2013, 07:37:38 AM »

I disagree with the psychiatrist assertion that BPD doesn’t exist, frankly I think that is ridiculous. We have 10’s of thousands of stories on this website that describe very similar symptoms, signs and behaviors and as a normal human function we put a label on it. Just like everyone calls the machine that heats up bread in a little slot a toaster, we call these similar behaviors BPD.

I can speak for me and for others that went through a relationship with what is labeled a silent or waif type BPD. We didn’t take abuse, or raging and frankly would have no clue of the level of deception that was going on until the end. So for us, the idea that we should have known better is a bit simplistic. Lying cheating whore is what the non-clinical label is for my ex. I came here wanting to understand what makes a person like that tick.

At this point I am not on here anymore for answers… I get it now. I hope to add to the discussion and maybe give some insight to those that are still hurting. But in some way, even though I am not still here for answers, the only reason I am here is because of the ex and in some way that maintains a connection to a long gone past. For most of us I think there has to be a time to just move on from all that was, including here.

Logged
MakeItHappen
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 116


« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2013, 08:07:43 AM »

I disagree with the psychiatrist assertion that BPD doesn’t exist, frankly I think that is ridiculous. We have 10’s of thousands of stories on this website that describe very similar symptoms, signs and behaviors and as a normal human function we put a label on it. Just like everyone calls the machine that heats up bread in a little slot a toaster, we call these similar behaviors BPD.

I can speak for me and for others that went through a relationship with what is labeled a silent or waif type BPD. We didn’t take abuse, or raging and frankly would have no clue of the level of deception that was going on until the end. So for us, the idea that we should have known better is a bit simplistic. Lying cheating whore is what the non-clinical label is for my ex. I came here wanting to understand what makes a person like that tick.

At this point I am not on here anymore for answers… I get it now. I hope to add to the discussion and maybe give some insight to those that are still hurting. But in some way, even though I am not still here for answers, the only reason I am here is because of the ex and in some way that maintains a connection to a long gone past. For most of us I think there has to be a time to just move on from all that was, including here.

Thanks for all you just said and the wonderful use of the toaster analogy.

Smiling (click to insert in post)
Logged

MaybeSo
Distinguished Member
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Together five years, ended suddenly June 2011
Posts: 3680


Players only love you when they're playing...


« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2013, 09:31:18 AM »

Bottom line,

BPD, NPD, and the whole of Axis II disorders do describe and label a style of relating that is dysfunctional... .  other terms like attachment disorder can certainly make more sense and be more palitable... .  my ex identifies with having an attachment disorder. He resents my use of BPD (w/NPD traits).

Many clinicians blanch at dx axis II for very legit reasons, insurance, stigma, concern with further harming or losing the client. A clinician can see and treat BPD (if they are skilled in the area) without ever mentioning the label to the client. A clinician has to be careful about triangulating (read definition) with distressed husbands and wives in labeling "that person as the problem"... .  taking that tact can lead a clinician into participating in the dysfunction of the

family system. There is an entire area of study in family systems theory regarding the

identified patient who is scapgoated for acting out all of the families pain and dysfunction ... .  

This is done on a unconscious level... .  it's not like a family decides to gang up and scapegoat

a family member, but it happens all the time.  Also, there is NO couples therapist that

doesn't have to wade through and redirect the finger pointing/ blame game that couples do.

Almost all hurting couples include two folks equally convinced that The Other person is clearly the problem. None of this focus on other is therapeutic or healing.


Having said that... .  

A wise clinician can promote a return to your own life and a healthy focus back to self... The only thing you CAN control... .  without making global statements like BPD doesn't exist.

When these kind of statements "BPD doesnt exist" come out of a professionals mouth... There are probably a million ivory tower lofty reasons for making that statement... But the fact is... .  It invalidates a person's experience and this can be just as dangerous as the fear

of harming or invalidating the identified patient.

There are ways of addressing concerns of a distressed family member who thinks their partner may have BPD that is sensitive to the impact of that label, sensitive to the family system, and sensitive to the experience of the questioner. Proclaiming that BPD doesn't exist is usually a philosophical stance (i know clinicians that take this stance very seriously, as a badge of honor... .  against the harm that labels have caused) ... .  there is real potential to further damage with a stigmatizing label... .  That is true.  But handling it by declaring BPD doest exist,  is taking the easy way out of a loaded and complex situation, misses an opportunity to both teach and share with those asking in a way that can begin a  healthy dialogue  (this takes some thought) and instead alleviates the clinicians anxiety at the expense of the person asking the question.

If  you don't like dealing with complex, sticky issues, you ought not have chosen the field of

psychology as your profession.
Logged

charred
*******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1206



« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2013, 09:46:38 AM »

Guys, I think BPD, NPD ect is overall very derogatory. What these are are attachment disorders. BPD is classified as disorganized and NPD is classified as avoidant. These description, if you read about them, are much more accurate, and not so derogatory.

Agree completely... and attachment issues are why we responded so strongly to them, and I think there is some transference between our pwBPD and the primary relationship we never had but wanted (in many cases)... like mistaking the seduction stage for unconditional love... .  then when we get dumped abruptly it is like losing a primary relation, not a typical gf/bf. We also take abuse from them like it was from a parent, not like a typical bf/gf... .  so something attachment related is involved. I personally fit the fearful avoidant attachment type better than NPD or any other description. What really hit me was the descriptions of codependency... .  my exBPDgf used to rant and rave about how I was sickly codependent with my exwife... .  and she was not correct about that... but seems to be correct in describing my personality type... I worried about pleasing people, everyone but me, and ended up being controlling and was doing my part of the Karpman drama triangle stuff.

The labelling seems off, I do believe it is a disorder... but the word borderline... makes it sound "almost"... like borderline diabetic is nearly... however there is nothing almost about my exBPDgf, she like many of the BPD folks is seriously disordered. I have no doubt BPD exists, I have been devastated by my r/s with a pwBPD.
Logged
Phoenix.Rising
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1021



« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2013, 10:15:23 AM »

There is no doubt in my mind that the disorder exists.  Like others, though, I do not like the term Borderline Personality Disorder.  When I first heard it, it sounded scary to me.  While there were some scary aspects to my relationship, of which I played a part as well, using the term attachment disorder seems more palatable, although there are several types of attachment disorders. 

Like Charred, I'm aware I have attachment problems, too.  I would not have trauma bonded with my ex in the manner I did if this were not the case.  And, yes, it is not a coincidence that there are so many similarities in these relationships.  I've had so many 'Aha' moments reading other people's stories it's almost unbelievable.

I believe BPD can be extremely hard to diagnose unless the professional has intimate knowledge and experience with the condition.  Due to the very nature of it, it often goes undetected unless significant time is spent with the pwBPD in intimate settings.  This is where the illness is prominently displayed.  I feel now, though, it's easier for me to identify characteristics earlier because of my growing knowledge and experience. 

It is my understanding that the illness itself was not officially categorized in the DSM until 1980, so it is still in its infancy stage in that regard and thus largely misunderstood, even by a large number of professionals, in my opinion.  It was formerly called latent schizophrenia.

It has been difficult for me to find a competent psychologist that understands the nature of the illness and how it affects those who are close.
Logged

almost789
******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 783


« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2013, 11:01:07 AM »

I tend to agree with this author. In my opinion its just another word used to classify a group of similar mental health symptoms. The problem is with the stigma given to the name due to ignorance of the disorder.

Jerold J. Kreisman, M.D. author of, I Hate You, Don't Leave Me (assistant clinical professor for the department of psychiatry at St. Louis University) and Hal Straus (a health writer) is just the book to give you that understanding and save you untold hours of confusion and pain. It describes in layman's terms one of the most common, yet undiscussed, conditions in our society - Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). Even those most skeptical of psychiatry and self-help will recognize its pattern in family members, friends, lovers and even themselves as they read.

If the frustrating and difficult situations described earlier strongly evoke such memories for you, Borderline Personality Disorder or its traits may be central to the problem. While it is always painful to learn that someone we care about has a "disorder", it is also through such precise identification that we receive direction towards the support of others similarly effected, resources that can help, and ultimately the peace of mind that results from true understanding of previously confounding and upsetting situations.

Borderline Personality Disorder is an established psychiatric disorder, with strictly defined criteria, which can encompass more specific problems including alcoholism, bipolar disorder, drug abuse, eating disorders, suicide, and many others. While each of these more specific problems are important to treat in their own right, the recognition that each is the result of a greater overall problem - the borderline personality - is crucial for successful coping and treatment.
Logged
TheDude
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 227


« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2013, 11:22:42 AM »

Just thinking out loud... .  I wonder at what point, for someone leaving/detaching, the 'diagnosis' of an ex doesn't really matter anymore?

The most significant relationship for me, prior to this one, was with an alcoholic (I'm also ACOA). From the point I understood what the problem was, I was "all in", at least in terms of learning and understanding all I could about it. While there were moments of seeming success, there also came a point when I realized that this was a fruitless effort on my part. Once I said goodbye, the focus quickly shifted away from her problem and on to myself. Life goes on.

That said, here I am. I, too, am guilty of ruminating about HER problem(s), and look for some detail here or there which would facilitate some way to correct this mess. My logical brain is telling me that that's not healthy, and that I must get to the point where it's nothing more than a lesson learned...
Logged
Scott44
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 136


« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2013, 11:41:51 AM »

I had the perfect opportunity to get my ex to consider her BPD behaviors.  She was diagnosed by an expert in the area of BPD.  She did NOT like it when she was given some material from a manual called, "Stop Walking on Eggshells".  We were both knowledgable enough to know what that kind of "homework" meant diagnostically.  She complained about the diagnosis and told the expert to focus instead on her PTSD.  My ex's mother was diagnosed with BPD and the last thing my ex wanted was that label being applied to herself. 

So what did I do?  I sent a letter of complaint to the expert's superior saying that she insisted on treating my wife's BPD which I said she didn't have.  The last session we had with this BPD expert went like this:

My ex: "Focus on my PTSD.  That is my problem not BPD"

The expert:  "Okay, but I still think you have borderline traits that should be addressed at some point."

They have never been addressed.  I called the expert recently saying that I was now divorced from my ex and now I believe she DOES have BPD.  The expert said that she can't see me because she was a therapist to my ex, and there are ethical issues to consider.
Logged
Rose Tiger
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 2075



« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2013, 12:45:46 PM »

I wonder how many therapists had to deal with similiar complaints from BPD patients.  I'm guessing it's a sizable number.
Logged
nolisan
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 332



« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2013, 03:02:18 AM »

BPD's often seek out "helping careers" like social work, psychology, psychiatry ... .  

Seems what they can't do for themselves they try to do for others. And I feel they get a high out of drama and witnessing suffering.

My ex wanted to become a professional mediator! Chrikey she couldn't / wouldn't even do the most basic f2f conflict resolution. She would storm off and send me a one sided email where everything was MY fault. Then often impose a time out.
Logged
Iced
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 115


« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2013, 03:42:53 AM »

I wonder how many therapists had to deal with similiar complaints from BPD patients.  I'm guessing it's a sizable number.

I know a person dealing with BPD-like symptoms discontinued therapy at some point because they believed that it was impossible for them to have something like BPD.

... .  It's funny.

When I first started seeing my psyD, I was ELATED - absolutely excited - to FINALLY have some kind of possible answers - ANY answers - to some of the struggles I was having in my life (dealing with a pwBPD-like symptoms was one of them, but not the main thing at the time).

A third and hopefully unbiased person to bounce thoughts and ideas with was such a blessing and I was so thrilled and even relieved to get that sort of experience that that became my, "Honestly, having a therapist isn't a bad idea even if you don't 'need' one!"

The funny part is, people who I have known in my life who have not exhibited the attachment issues (at least, not so severely as to become a life-altering issue) have been - for the most part - amiable to the idea of therapy and some have ended up seeing one over the years.  Just to see, career counseling, mood help, family help etc.

On the other hand, the people who have exhibited the attachment issues the strongest have all been the most resistent whether they have ever had experience with therapy or not.

... .  Usually, too, I noticed that this same group of people also are the most adamant about, "I don't have any problems so I don't need a therapist!"

Not trying to pigeonhole anybody; just sharing a thought and some observations.
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2021?

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2020 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
40days_in_desert
Ahquei3s
alphabeta
Amethyste
Angie59
ArtistGuy70
AskingWhy
assumezero
At Bay
Avanzando
Baglady
Beneck
bigredneck
Bittlecat
Boll Weevil
calmboom
Cat Familiar
Chosen
Dnmtnbkr
drained1996
Eggshellsbroken
FaintTheGoat
FaithHopeLove
FindingMe2011
Forgiveness
freespirit
GaGrl
ggGreg
Gift to Myself
gotbushels
Harri
hopeandchoices
I Am Redeemed
Imatter33
Jazzy48
jdc
jones54
Jonthan
Katrinalove
Kwamina
l8kgrl
LLgreen
Longterm
lorymac
lovenature
loyalwife
lucidone
Manifest32f
MariannaR
Meridius
Methuen
mgirl
Minttea
Mommydoc
Mutt
narcdaughter2
needPeace
NorseWoman
Notgoneyet
oceanheart
oftentimes
Omega1
once removed
Only Human
otherlife
palynne
PeacefulMom
Pedro
pest947
podsnapG
ProudDad12
pursuingJoy
Radcliff
Raul
Recycle
Resiliant
Rev
Rosheger
Sad4Her
SamwizeGamgee
Sandalwood
SBBayArea
SCM
SerendipityChild
SES
Silverhope
Skip
songbirdtwo
StillStuck
Swimmy55
Teno
townhouse
truthbeknown
turtleengine501
Ventak
vinnie77
Violet00
wavewatcher
wendydarling
WhatJustHappened?
Whichwayisup
whirlpoollife
Wicker Man
WindofChange
worn_out
WTL
zachira
zaqsert

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!