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Author Topic: Saying to ex BPD gf she has BPD ... backfired tremendously.  (Read 8070 times)
HarmKrakow
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« on: March 02, 2013, 04:59:58 PM »

I spoke to my ex BPD gf tonight about how we were doing in life. I know, i know, (salt/wounds story), but still I fell for it.

When we had the final talk of talks, I told her that both my T's and my GP said that she is a likely sufferer from BPD and PTSS as she fits the entire description and our r/s was the perfect textbook example of idealization and devaluation including all the hatred, the passion, the blackmail, the black and white, the everything. The whole freaking lot. And of course her background, father cheated on mother, they are still together, had an abusive ex.bf who abused her sexually and phsyically. She didn't have friends coming over when she had a enormous surgery in her youth and felt abandoned by all her childhood friends. I was the 'figurative' savior, the white knight. Unfortunately, I really did think that at the time and thought such a wonderful girl didn't deserve such a     *d up time and I tried all I could, talked to her for hours and weeks and months to increase her self esteem, her everything. Just to be devalued after like a ice cold brick. I still remember, one week she wanted marriage and kids, the week after 'something broke'. To this day, I still can't get my head around it.

After this switch, feelings were never the same and the hatred phase started. I was crying, emotionally unstable and after months of me trying all I could to save the r/s, she pulled the plug through an email to discuss it one day later... (I mean... What the heck!) She emailed on a saturday it's over and i should have seen it coming. If it hurts, well to bad. And if you want to discuss it, we can discuss it sunday morning ... I gave this woman my everything, she wanted to get married, talking about kids, the whole lot. I was at the end of my rope and flung into a big burnout last months. I was 'empty' and ofc. the more empty i became the more she 'pissed' over me and the more I tried, it was never good enough.

I thought, I have once chance to tell her, and it was then that sunday morning.

Now she told me, that she spoke with her mother and they laughed about it. Keep in mind she never told anything in regards of her mother about the sexual and physical abuse of her ex boyfriend and also nothing about the fact that her father cheated on her mother(!) what she witnessed when she was younger! My ex BPD told me, she was wanting to give me this BPD to 'detach' from her but know thinks I have it as she read through the description of Wikipedia

Borderline personality disorder (BPD) (called emotionally unstable personality disorder, borderline type in the ICD-10) is a personality disorder characterized by unusual variability and depth of moods.[1] These moods may secondarily affect cognition and interpersonal relationships.[n 1] Other symptoms of BPD include impulsive behavior, intense and unstable interpersonal relationships, unstable self-image, feelings of abandonment and an unstable sense of self.

And all the 'bold' things made her think about me as i've acted emotionally unstable with all my crying about her irrational black and white (idealize/devalue) behavior within days ... and the fact that it made me completely empty ... and the fact that i acted impulsively in the last few months just to make her happy by trying to take her out for something, a drink, flowers, whatever as she kept complaining about her new job and told me stuff that she was never going to make friends in the new city she was going to live in. I am, and I agree, a wreck at the moment because I feel like I lost the woman of my dreams and I do cry indeed about it. And yes, it made me re-think a whole lot. I put her on my nr. 1 friends list, I let other important friends slip for her. Now I don't have a lot of friends left and the ones I do have left tell me I'm crazy for sticking up with such a Borderline looney, as they often suggested she has borderline when I told them my r/s issues. They said it smells like Borderline which means GTFO and RUN! I seriously feel emotionally and physically drained. No power to do something and my self confidence crushed to smitherines.  

Then just an hour ago she told me ... I am fine, I don't have problems. Maybe a bit self-esteem but I work on that. I think you do fit this description of BPD though... and you should try to cure it ... then she left with we'll speak about it later ...

I am utterly speechless ... I don't know what to feel, hate, anger, despair, What the heck man . I went for SUCH lengths for this woman and I have always been selfless just to get     ed over by this.

How do I react to this ... people ... please ?

I trust my T's (2) and GP judgement completely. She never got officially diagnosed with BPD, only with social phobia. We went through the entire disecting of the relationship and it just all matched, box by box. Note by note. Every little     ing thing. The way our r/s went, was even to my unpleasant surprise told to me as 'a perfect textbook example  :'( '

I never shouted at her, I never cursed at her, I never ever gave her any bad name at all. Never hit her, never threw anything, smashed a door etc. I never raged at her never. But my god, I feel anger within me  
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« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2013, 05:20:23 PM »

Seems like a classic BPD behavior. And yes, everything you do describe about her will in turn backfire on you (even if she had agreed to the diagnosis in the first place!). If you read enough about BPD, their reality keeps changing depending on how they are feeling at that moment or in those few weeks of their life.

I know... .  it hurts like hell. You are left with a billion questions and a trillion doubts. You wish she would see a psychiatrist and get better. And then things will be fine with the woman you have given so much to.

Draw boundary for yourself. As much as it hurts, do not let her treat you anyway she wants, but the way you deserve. I am not going to tell you to run away. That is your decision (I have never been able to run away either). But I had read something very important before... .  pwBPD females are also just like any other female. They want the guy to be strong and show some self-respect. By the time my ex was done crapping all over me, I had no self-respect left, I was an emotional crying wreck. And that will only make her think that you are not worthy enough for her. So you have to work on yourself - the most important thing.

If someday she goes for help and keeps at it (I hope she will), maybe you two can have the life you have wanted. But if she doesn't, nothing is going to change. By that I mean, the cycle will keep going on. You might have a few months of bliss and feel like all is good, and then out of nowhere it will all explode.

So right now focus on yourself. If you love her you can show her your support and tell her that you are there for her. But don't let her treat you in a way you do not deserve. Hope it helped. (I have spent most of the past 26 hrs in bed agonizing over my ex... .  don't become me! Laugh out loud (click to insert in post))
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2013, 05:32:28 PM »

Seems like a classic BPD behavior. And yes, everything you do describe about her will in turn backfire on you (even if she had agreed to the diagnosis in the first place!). If you read enough about BPD, their reality keeps changing depending on how they are feeling at that moment or in those few weeks of their life.

I know... .  it hurts like hell. You are left with a billion questions and a trillion doubts. You wish she would see a psychiatrist and get better. And then things will be fine with the woman you have given so much to.

Draw boundary for yourself. As much as it hurts, do not let her treat you anyway she wants, but the way you deserve. I am not going to tell you to run away. That is your decision (I have never been able to run away either). But I had read something very important before... .  pwBPD females are also just like any other female. They want the guy to be strong and show some self-respect. By the time my ex was done crapping all over me, I had no self-respect left, I was an emotional crying wreck. And that will only make her think that you are not worthy enough for her. So you have to work on yourself - the most important thing.

If someday she goes for help and keeps at it (I hope she will), maybe you two can have the life you have wanted. But if she doesn't, nothing is going to change. By that I mean, the cycle will keep going on. You might have a few months of bliss and feel like all is good, and then out of nowhere it will all explode.

So right now focus on yourself. If you love her you can show her your support and tell her that you are there for her. But don't let her treat you in a way you do not deserve. Hope it helped. (I have spent most of the past 26 hrs in bed agonizing over my ex... .  don't become me! Laugh out loud (click to insert in post))

Cheers, seriously thanks a lot Smiling (click to insert in post)

I do need to work on myself but stuff like this is of course not helping my progress. It feels like i've been stripped of my identity and even AFTER our r/s I still feel like i'm the one doing it all wrong  :'(.

I would wish she would see she has a problem. Today she told me she has no problem and is happy, last tuesday she mailed me; i had a horrible day at work, i feel lonely and and feel very sad.
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« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2013, 06:09:38 PM »

Ok well that went as bad as you expected, right?

Cast iron proof for you now that she is BPD perhaps.

Cast iron proof that contact with her isn't good for you definately!

In a way this interaction validated everything you've been through. You are mourning an illusion 

Leave the illusion behind, leave her in reality behind.

Go back to you, go back to your book
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« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2013, 06:24:27 PM »

Going through a break up with someone you love is difficult - going through a break up with someone with BPD can exacerbate the emotions that you feel because of the behaviors that a pwBPD can display during and after the break up.  It can make you question everything about yourself.  How could I have let this happen to me?  That is the question I found myself asking.

I think most of us had some level of vulnerability before, during and after our r/s.  If we were in our wise minds, taking care of ourselves, we most likely would have ended the r/s much sooner (or never got in it in the first place).  

The difference between you and her, however, is awareness.  You are becoming aware of her disorder and why you got involved with her.  Having this awareness will lead you to a place of understanding that she may never get to.  A place of growth and eventual happiness, if this is what you seek.  It takes work and time, and will hurt along the way.  

Looking at the stages of detachment, in particular 'self-inquiry', there is a place for being present with your feelings and also to stand a little aside from them.  :)o you have moments where you can see it all for what it really is?  There are more stages to come, harmkrakow.  Ones that will get you to a better place.  We're here and listening.  One step at a time.  
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« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2013, 12:57:27 AM »

Harmkrakow

so sorrry to hear that your last contact with your ex was such a disaster.

I have the impression you were still caught by the wish she would become self aware and seek out for healing.

The reality seems to be very different from this wish. Projection, backfiring, mostly denial from her part.

Excerpt
I went for SUCH lengths for this woman and I have always been selfless just to get     ed over by this.

Like LE says: Go back to you. 

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« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2013, 01:42:48 AM »

Arg... .  Thanks for sharing this. That sucks.

I too have had fleeting thoughts of telling my ex all this stuff about BPD. Like you, she isn't diagnosed. She told me at some point that she was diagnosed with bipolar but she never really got into it (even after 7 years!). For some reason, I didn't prod... .  I'm kind of an idiot.

But, like you, I had 2 Ts tell me she probably had BPD and one told me she probably has NPD thrown in there for good measure. And, like you, I read these stories on this board and on the Internet and it is like reading about my relationship, word for word.

I saw my ex a month ago and I thought of telling her exactly what you did. I dumped her, so it is a bit different. But, I dumped her after a particularly bad 4 day raging episode of her calling me an ___hole for everything and anything.

Anyhow, long story short, I was on the verge of telling her but I didn't. Why? I didn't want to give her anymore than I already have. And, there were only two outcomes that could come of it:

1) she agreed and we get back together (that would be terrible... .  it would probably take 3-4 years of councilling and she would never, ever, ever stick to that.

2) she would freak out at me like yours did (which is the much more likely scenario).

Anyhow, thanks for sharing man. I'm sorry that happened. At a certain point, once you can start to wrap your head around all this BPD stuff, it will be time to focus on you and what you want out of life and what can do to make it better. At some point, it will be time to lay all this BPD stuff to rest. I'm not there yet myself. But I know that sometime it will happen. Hopefully sooner than later.

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« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2013, 03:29:26 AM »

Hi.  Yes, it backfires.  You can't tell anything to someone who can't listen.  The really fascinating thing is the way things get projected back at you.  Many of us have wondered, "am I the one with BPD?"  and I think it is a result of the projecting.  A few weeks ago I had the most disconcerting feeling that he was me and I was him.  I only feel that way after having contact with him.  He pushes every button I have with excruciating precision.  Sometimes I was sure that I was crazy.  I have to look at the hard evidence:  I am functioning in life, he is not; others have assured me that I make sense to them; the only truly volatile relationship I have is with him;  he behaves in ways that no one else I know does.  Educate yourself thoroughly, not just here, but through other articles about BPD.  It helps.
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2013, 04:27:06 PM »

Ok well that went as bad as you expected, right?

Cast iron proof for you now that she is BPD perhaps.

Cast iron proof that contact with her isn't good for you definately!

In a way this interaction validated everything you've been through. You are mourning an illusion 

Leave the illusion behind, leave her in reality behind.

Go back to you, go back to your book

Cheers Smiling (click to insert in post) I appreciate it. And yeah, go back to my (audio)book, as thats what I will do now. Today has been dreadful, however, tomorrow is another day, fingers crossed Smiling (click to insert in post) And yeah, when I read it yesterday, to me it felt like cast iron proof. I woke up this morning, and I felt such a deep urge within me, but what if it WAS me? What was the result of all that thinking? A day of grieving in bed not being able to eat nor speak to anyone and literally puked out all my food.

When that one day comes again, when I can genuinely say I feel good, i'll shout it off this board  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) and thank everyone for helping me achieve that again.

Going through a break up with someone you love is difficult - going through a break up with someone with BPD can exacerbate the emotions that you feel because of the behaviors that a pwBPD can display during and after the break up.  It can make you question everything about yourself.  How could I have let this happen to me?  That is the question I found myself asking.

I think most of us had some level of vulnerability before, during and after our r/s.  If we were in our wise minds, taking care of ourselves, we most likely would have ended the r/s much sooner (or never got in it in the first place).  

The difference between you and her, however, is awareness.  You are becoming aware of her disorder and why you got involved with her.  Having this awareness will lead you to a place of understanding that she may never get to.  A place of growth and eventual happiness, if this is what you seek.  It takes work and time, and will hurt along the way.  

Looking at the stages of detachment, in particular 'self-inquiry', there is a place for being present with your feelings and also to stand a little aside from them.  :)o you have moments where you can see it all for what it really is?  There are more stages to come, harmkrakow.  Ones that will get you to a better place.  We're here and listening.  One step at a time.  

Yes, there are moments when I see it all for what it really is, that moment was saturday evening, sunday morning I started feeling again with the thought, what if... WHAT IF it was all me and I could have saved it all? And yeah, i agree, we had some sense of vulnerability before, during and after the r/s. If I was in my 'wise' mind I would not have let this go on that long. Definitely. The last few months have been pure hell and agony.

And yeah, that main question; how could i have let this happen to me? When I look in the mirror I find myself so stupid for letting me get dragged down so deep. I was top of my class, had a fantastic upcoming career, worked at a top firm, now ... none of that. In just a matter of 16/17 months. My T tells me i'm to hard on myself, and that therefore I can not see the little steps of progress i'm making. I know he's true, but still. It's not easy. I'm apparently making progress but it doesn't feel like progress. I've cried more today than in weeks, and puked again which I haven't done in a while.

Arg... .  Thanks for sharing this. That sucks.

I too have had fleeting thoughts of telling my ex all this stuff about BPD. Like you, she isn't diagnosed. She told me at some point that she was diagnosed with bipolar but she never really got into it (even after 7 years!). For some reason, I didn't prod... .  I'm kind of an idiot.

But, like you, I had 2 Ts tell me she probably had BPD and one told me she probably has NPD thrown in there for good measure. And, like you, I read these stories on this board and on the Internet and it is like reading about my relationship, word for word.

I saw my ex a month ago and I thought of telling her exactly what you did. I dumped her, so it is a bit different. But, I dumped her after a particularly bad 4 day raging episode of her calling me an ___hole for everything and anything.

Anyhow, long story short, I was on the verge of telling her but I didn't. Why? I didn't want to give her anymore than I already have. And, there were only two outcomes that could come of it:

1) she agreed and we get back together (that would be terrible... .  it would probably take 3-4 years of councilling and she would never, ever, ever stick to that.

2) she would freak out at me like yours did (which is the much more likely scenario).

Anyhow, thanks for sharing man. I'm sorry that happened. At a certain point, once you can start to wrap your head around all this BPD stuff, it will be time to focus on you and what you want out of life and what can do to make it better. At some point, it will be time to lay all this BPD stuff to rest. I'm not there yet myself. But I know that sometime it will happen. Hopefully sooner than later.

Glad to be of assistance Smiling (click to insert in post) She also raged at me, sometimes for days and then went NC, i never had the cojones to say, enough is enough. I regret telling her though. I do. I also send her another mail saying sorry for me doing so.  :'(
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2013, 04:28:14 PM »

Hi.  Yes, it backfires.  You can't tell anything to someone who can't listen.  The really fascinating thing is the way things get projected back at you.  Many of us have wondered, "am I the one with BPD?"  and I think it is a result of the projecting.  A few weeks ago I had the most disconcerting feeling that he was me and I was him.  I only feel that way after having contact with him.  He pushes every button I have with excruciating precision.  Sometimes I was sure that I was crazy.  I have to look at the hard evidence:  I am functioning in life, he is not; others have assured me that I make sense to them; the only truly volatile relationship I have is with him;  he behaves in ways that no one else I know does.  Educate yourself thoroughly, not just here, but through other articles about BPD.  It helps.

Yip, it's amazing though. Everything backfires, no matter how you throw it, whatever you say. It's been structured again and thrown back at you.  :'(
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« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2013, 04:49:04 PM »

harmkrakow... .  reading your stories reminds me so much of myself  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

your story being on top of your class, fantastic upcoming career coming up... .  aah brought back old memories. always been top or near top of class from kindergarten through college. then not even average anymore. have to start from the bottom of a career field. finally manage to pull myself up to get into a good PhD program. and boom she comes back and i am under academic probation. haha.

how could you have let it happen to you? all day I am wondering what if I had known about BPD before? would anything have been different? she didn't "lie" about anything. she expressed whatever it was in her mind. the contradictions felt like lies to me. But if I had known it was BPD... .  I might not have let it affect me too much.

The only way we might have prevented this is by taking the small  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) seriously. they were there since the beginning. but we were in that seducer/idealization phase. when someone treats us like their knight, like their guardian angel... .  the heart doesn't notice those  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) and warnings  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2013, 05:07:26 PM »

Hey harmkrakow,

Yours sounds a lot like mine.  I made the same attempt with my uxBPDw and it resulted in pretty much the same thing.  The behavior and the response from yours strikes me as utterly detestable, and it should only further validate your belief in what is wrong with her.

What surprised me with my own ex was that it wasn't just that she turned from loving to hateful... .  it was also that she transformed from a sweet, introspective, somewhat wise person into just a shallow-minded, naive, petty, junior high school b---h.  By the end of my efforts, I felt like I was just dealing with some weird cartoon character... .  or like some cardboard cutout of the person I had once known.

The way that yours responded to a very serious concern about her mental health (coming from somebody that she had once loved and respected and admired), by just "laughing" about it.  Ugh.  Gross.  I don't need to know hardly anything about you to be quite sure you deserve someone about 1000 times better than that.

In the long run, my "backfired" attempt to get through to my ex has still helped me.  I know that I tried.  I know that I said everything I could possibly to think of to say.  She's just gone.  The woman that I loved is just gone from me, and there's absolutely nothing I can do or say to bring that person back.

Knowing that helps.  I think it will help you, too... .  even if it does hurt like hell right now.  I think it will help you, too.
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« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2013, 05:38:10 PM »

In the long run, my "backfired" attempt to get through to my ex has still helped me.  I know that I tried.  I know that I said everything I could possibly to think of to say.  She's just gone.  The woman that I loved is just gone from me, and there's absolutely nothing I can do or say to bring that person back.

Knowing that helps.  I think it will help you, too... .  even if it does hurt like hell right now.  I think it will help you, too.

I was in the same situation as you and did the same things, excepted that there was no backfire because of long distance. There was nothing anymore that I could have done or said to make her see reason or to bring her back on "track" regarding our marriage. Even her relatives and friends told me so, that I could have my conscience clear from guilt. I had done my utmost ! However, I told her about her illness because she had asked me about it 15 months earlier and also because I knew that I had nothing to lose anymore if I told her the truth... .  

Yes, it helps a lot, it makes the whole difference. No feelings of guilt changed everything to me.
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« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2013, 06:49:44 PM »

The literature suggests that it's a bad idea to tell your current or prior partner that they have BPD.  In fact, a common reaction is for the person with BPD to tell you that YOU have BPD.  I made this mistake, and know this firsthand, as my ex immediately responded that I had BPD after I told her that I thought she had it. I never heard from her again.

Therapists try to avoid telling patients that they have BPD because of the averse reaction (they'll often immediately devalue the T and quit therapy.). They build trust and instead start teaching CBT or DBT techniques vs. labeling.

For your own benefit, it's best to apply the rules of mindfulness and DBT to how YOU handle situations with your spouse. It will do the both of you a lot of good.

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« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2013, 09:07:58 PM »

How are you feeling today HarmKrakow?

Can you accept now that this isn't you? That despite all the self-reflection and highly critical self-analysis we tend to do, it reaches a point where it all becomes nothing but absurd and abnormal. That's when something snaps inside and you shake your head in utter disbelief and go 'no' maybe yes we are a small part, maybe a trigger, but we are not driving the crazy train, the proof being that we are the ones constantly being tied to the track and getting run over!

Why did this happen to you? why did this happen to any of us? Who knows. Had we never met them we all would have been spared a lot of unnecessary pain. Why did we even meet them? Chance and bad luck I guess.

Why we fall for them is another matter and is a chance to understand ourselves and our own issues better. This happened to you because awful things happen to good people. Please don't define yourself or the rest of your life by this experience and please don't let your self worth be defined by someone who just plain isn't good for you
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2013, 09:12:57 PM »

the sick part is i had fantasies of telling her she has BPD  she would cry and accept my help and go get help and then i realize later that she will eat me alive and most definitely tell me I am. I told her once Who the F__ would want to be with her with the way she treated me. two days NC and i called her to apologize i even told her i think you need to go see someone. Mind you she told me i needed to see someone  and I went right away got a great T and was on Meds for depression i never hesitated. The r/s was too important to me to not get help. So you think someone like this understands Therapy and can respect a love ones cry for help. NOPE she told me on day three of breaking NC that i was emotionally abusive and how she puts up with me and how i am damaging her life she even read through a least the whole time im thinking that's what you do to me but never verbalized it to her. I am abusive to her  after a night of her raging on me for not texting her quick enough. she is right i became her trigger and i was a form of damage to her but i didn't do it to hurt her i guess i just became this trigger because  Its all dysfunctional you tried can not fault you for that.

be proud you came from a place of love you didn't do it to spite her or hurt her
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2013, 09:19:22 PM »

People who want help seek help sometimes its internal sometime its an outside push healthy people can see if i have a pattern of unstable relationships this constant internal conflict. it can not be every single person in the world maybe its me and if a love one says hey i think you maybe so and so it doesnt hurt to find out to see is this it is this the answer to it all. She left me i blamed me i found bpdfamily.com i found out im a co dependent it hurt at first now im glad i know and im working on it. Im not Healthy but im getting there and thats what Healthy people do they fix their problems whether alone or with support they get ready to do the heavy lifting
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2013, 09:41:17 PM »

Goodness how I recall feeling like you do right now harm. I so needed a diagnosis, I spoke to all in sundry about my ex’s behaviour to try and gain perspective that a) I was not to blame b) negotiate my way around it to avoid the pain of the separation c) last ditch attempt to try and control life so it will go my way – i.e. he will finally see the light.

Grieving the loss of the relationship takes time and patience on our part. At a guess I would suggest you are at the bargaining phase - expression of hope and wondering if she really is BPD. If she is then you must be right to feel the way you do. Bargaining is magical thinking that keeps us from really having to accept the reality of the situation.

Are you able to separate the facts with the emotion? We cannot make our partners see life differently – we need to let go of the need of control over them and their actions. She needs to falter. Letting go by giving up the need to change who she is – she has shown you that many times over.

Us on the other hand need to let go of the hope.  Balancing our emotions harm is part of how we move through the bargaining stage otherwise we repeat the stages of denial and anger.

Let your emotions flow – Respect where you are in your healing.

Us: The Five Stages of Grieving a Relationship Loss

The five stages of grief are:

Denial

This is when we and our partner are on different page about our commitments to the relationship. This stage is filled with disbelief and denial.  

In the Kübler-Ross model, if your partner has died you still expect him to walk through the door.  The equivalent in a relationship breakup is that your partner is drifting away or has broken-up and you still think that he/she doesn't mean it - that it is a ploy or a reaction.  

Often in this stage we are engaged in relationship struggles and are expecting our partner to respond in the way that someone in a relationship would respond. However, they are in a very different, less caring place.  We are confused, hurt, put off by their behavior.

Anger/Resentment -

Anger often the reaction to being hurt and/or fearful, and helpless to do anything about it. The greater the loss, the greater the reaction.

In the Kübler-Ross model, you might feel anger at your deceased partner for dying (Kübler-Ross model).  In the relationship, you may feel anger at your partner for asking for a divorce and breaking up the family. You may feel anger at your friends or family for supporting her and not you. You may be angry for being betrayed.  You may be angery for not being idealized any longer (ego wound).  

Anger is a very complex pat of grieving - many of us stumble in this stage with either unhealthy anger (misdirected, trapping) or no anger (no release).

We need to determine why we're angry and focus our feeling on the true issues - if not, anger can imprison people.  

Bargaining

You try to negotiate to change the situation.

In the Kübler-Ross model, if you've lost a spouse to death you might bargain with God, "I'll be a better person if you'd just bring him back". In a relationship, you might approach your partner who is asking for the break-up and say "If you'll stay, I'll change".  

Bargaining is that stage of the break-up when you’re trying to make deals and compromises. It’s when you start talking about how an open relationship might be a possibility or a long-distance thing could work. It’s when you say to your partner, “if you just did this then I could do that and it would work”. It’s when you say to yourself that you’ll do x, y, z to be a better spouse so that the relationship doesn’t have to end.

Depression

The is the "it's really over" stage.

After all of the denial and the anger and the bargaining have been done and we realize that things really are starting to end and we become depressed. We fell helpless and powerless and overwhelmed with sadness about the loss that we are experiencing.  We realize the situation isn't going to change. The death or break-up happened and there is nothing to bring the other person back.  Acknowledgment of the situation often brings depression.

Acknowledgment often starts the serious process of us trying to understand what happened.

Acceptance – The "This is what happened" stage.

Acceptance is a final stage when we have finally sorting out what happened, accepted it and are more interested in moving forward than looking back.  

Acceptance can take a lot of time and a lot of processing. It involves understanding the situation, understand our role / understand their role, understanding what can be learned, and letting go / moving forward.  

Note: Each person mourns a loss differently.  You may not experience these stages in one fluid order. You may go through some of the stages more than once. Sometimes during the bargiaining stages we recycle the relationship. Or an event will trigger us to experience one of these stages again - like hearing your ex-partner is to remarry.






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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2013, 02:54:16 AM »

Goodness how I recall feeling like you do right now harm. I so needed a diagnosis, I spoke to all in sundry about my ex’s behaviour to try and gain perspective that a) I was not to blame b) negotiate my way around it to avoid the pain of the separation c) last ditch attempt to try and control life so it will go my way – i.e. he will finally see the light.

Grieving the loss of the relationship takes time and patience on our part. At a guess I would suggest you are at the bargaining phase - expression of hope and wondering if she really is BPD. If she is then you must be right to feel the way you do. Bargaining is magical thinking that keeps us from really having to accept the reality of the situation.

Are you able to separate the facts with the emotion? We cannot make our partners see life differently – we need to let go of the need of control over them and their actions. She needs to falter. Letting go by giving up the need to change who she is – she has shown you that many times over.

Us on the other hand need to let go of the hope.  Balancing our emotions harm is part of how we move through the bargaining stage otherwise we repeat the stages of denial and anger.

Let your emotions flow – Respect where you are in your healing.

Thanks for the post and I'm reading it all what is being thrown at me.

Am I able to seperate the facts with the emotion? From time to time, yes and from time to time no. I do think that as of yesterday, I officially broke down and hit the figurative rock bottom. I felt like I wanted to go away. I couldn't let the tears stop and the smallest trigger, watching a cartoon where people go dance was enough for me to break me in tears. I had enough. I woke up this morning and my thoughts were only directed at hers. What happened? Felt sick to my stomach and just started crying again.

I took a few hours off work today but will still have to go in an hour or 2, I do have a busy job so won't have that much time to constantly think (although I see it as pushing the inevitable away) but also at work I tear down. I go to the toilet and just go sit on the floor crying. Ridiculous.

I think what broke me down is seeing that the significant other continued her life, and even told me she was happy and is looking forward to a next day, a week after the official split. She went out till six while all I did was cry in bed. The thing that worries me is that I never felt like this before and that I never, ever had the feeling in my head of, enough is enough. I can drink red bull, go drink a coke or some espresso's, lie in bed to rest but I just don't have that sense of energy and spirit as I used to have.

I don't man. I just don't. I don't know what the f*dge i am doing it for. I want to have a goal, a target in life. Something, even a little thing. You know, a thing waking up for in the morning, a thing where you say, yes! Thats what we are going to work for! None, I don't feel it, it isn't there. And I know i'm searching frantically for it to come back which is not being helpful, but still I am officially at the end of my rope. It's worry some.

Back in the day when I was being set back, I fought harder, more resilient, don't give up, I reached great heights. It felt awesome, but on the top of my bill, I met you know who. It's feels I dug my own grave, jumped in it and complain for being stuck. 

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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2013, 03:04:25 AM »

How are you feeling today HarmKrakow?

Can you accept now that this isn't you? That despite all the self-reflection and highly critical self-analysis we tend to do, it reaches a point where it all becomes nothing but absurd and abnormal. That's when something snaps inside and you shake your head in utter disbelief and go 'no' maybe yes we are a small part, maybe a trigger, but we are not driving the crazy train, the proof being that we are the ones constantly being tied to the track and getting run over!

Why did this happen to you? why did this happen to any of us? Who knows. Had we never met them we all would have been spared a lot of unnecessary pain. Why did we even meet them? Chance and bad luck I guess.

Why we fall for them is another matter and is a chance to understand ourselves and our own issues better. This happened to you because awful things happen to good people. Please don't define yourself or the rest of your life by this experience and please don't let your self worth be defined by someone who just plain isn't good for you

I feel like yesterday wasn't the best day (rock bottom), and that the working week has yet begun. 5 days of sticking my head in the sand to face it all again on friday. I woke up again today with utter crying and feeling sick to my stomach, wondering whether or not to call the GP.

And yes, I can accept this isn't me. This hasn't been me, I was never like this. Friends where shocked that they saw me cry, sometimes constant for hours.

This can not have a tremendous huge impact on the rest of my life, it just can't. The mere thought of it being so is ofc. not helping me feel better.

The thing that does help me is the power of familiarity. When I'm in the bus/train heading to work and i'm reading some stories which I printed out from here sometimes a little smile comes on my face. Hey, that happened to me 2! Yeah I do remember that, because that also happened to me etc.

It still feels, even after the r/s that I'm the one doing it all wrong. She told me she is happy and looking forward to every other day. That there is nothing wrong with her and also tells me there is noting wrong with me. I'm fine she says. I look at myself in the mirror, with tears and a toilet which I have to clean regularly and wonder. What the      went wrong harm. Where the      did I let this all slip? I've had friends on numerous occasions tell me even months ago who wanted to rip the phone out of my hand and call her, IT IS OVER, harm is hurt and beyond himself. Willing to wait hours and hours for someone to come online and then not showing up.

I got an email from her last night ending with; ciaoo my awesome friend! i will never forget ho much you ve done for me in the past that is why i want we can respect each other for ever ciao ciao ciao Smiling (click to insert in post)

It goes through the heart. Over, finito, the end. I read it, and I become emotional again,      this.   :'(
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2013, 04:57:04 AM »

The literature suggests that it's a bad idea to tell your current or prior partner that they have BPD.  In fact, a common reaction is for the person with BPD to tell you that YOU have BPD.  I made this mistake, and know this firsthand, as my ex immediately responded that I had BPD after I told her that I thought she had it. I never heard from her again.

Therapists try to avoid telling patients that they have BPD because of the averse reaction (they'll often immediately devalue the T and quit therapy.). They build trust and instead start teaching CBT or DBT techniques vs. labeling.

For your own benefit, it's best to apply the rules of mindfulness and DBT to how YOU handle situations with your spouse. It will do the both of you a lot of good.

Yes, absolutely ! That's playing with fire.

But I told her because I knew that given our situation and her recent decisions, I'd never hear from her again. I live overseas and she fled like a thief from where she used to live in the USA, a couple of weeks after my departure (I had taken a flight to the USA for a short stay in order to talk with her and find a solution but had to be accomodated thereafter by friends and to go to a hotel because she treated me like a dog during the night I spent at her home), to another US state, thousands of miles from where she used to live.

I told her family and her what her problem was (her family was embarrassed and puzzled by her deeds and decisions, they knew about bipolar but not about BPD) and I tried to reassure them in letting them know that there could be a solution if she followed a therapy called DBT. Thereafter, I left her country for good and went back to mine, letting them meditate on it all and perhaps discuss about it all between them once I'm away and the passions have calmed down. I know my wife and know that she can be lucid sometimes and analyze her deeds and thoughts in "objective" ways. Ex: She's the one who talked to me about BPD, telling me that the symptoms look like her ways and asking me my opinion about it and she would regularly apologize for her fits of verbal abuse and insults... .  

My situation is peculiar and I did what I did according to it and what I did may not be a good idea for someone who's in a different situation.
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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2013, 05:35:09 AM »

Interesting you say that ... .  I told my ex after she was breaking up with me for the 10 billionth time, but I kinda knew that this last time I saw her was it so I told her. 

Perhaps there is some hope for your ex if she came to you with it.  It takes openness to find answers and get help.  All mine did was deny, reject, project, lie, etc. to get out of any acknowledgement that her behavior was unstable or that she needed help.

The good news is, I realize that I was wrong to think that this was ever my problem.  Her healthiness is up to her. 
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2013, 05:57:14 AM »

Harmkrakow,

I had the same thing happen to me. Exactly. I told my exBPD bf I thought he had BPD. I did it over the course of several months giving him little pieces of information. I trully think he already knew. How many other relationships has he been in where someone else did the same? Im thinking its quite likely that at the age of 38 he had a few who may have suspected BPD and brought it to his attention. Including his family. He wasnt shocked or freaked about it initially. I just dont think they can face us after this. They think to themselves, your the one who thinks im mental. Its easier and less painful for them to cut you out and find a new victim. One who sees them with fresh eyes. I felt like you with the huge blow to my self esteem after all this. Its crushing and devastating. I too was at a place in my life where I was flying high, career, family, everything was at the top. Then it all comes crashing down. Still have my career, but everythings suffered. I felt like such a loser and lost me, lost my desire to do. Just lost all my joy. 1.3 years after the break up Im beginning to rebuild my life, look forward to new life. It takes a long time. Detaching was very difficult for me. Its not for them, not at all ! He looks better than me. I saw him. Still looks great. Despite him losing his job moving across country to get another. I dont think he suffered like I did. Youll get there. Youll feel better one day. Mindfullness and positive thinking is helpful. Detaching is imperative. Fill you life with new goals. I dont have any regrets for telling mine and telling him the best treatments. I just could not walk away knowing it, and withholding it.  its up to him now if he wants to do anything about it. But I faced the same exact thing as you. Denial and projection. These are just theyre defenses.
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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2013, 06:01:22 AM »

Just to demonstrate how fragmented their personality is and how weird they can be about a BPD diagnosis: my uBPD (w/NPD traits)xbf told me very early in the relationship after two bottles of wine that an ex-gf had told him he was a borderliner. Also early on we were in a shop and he pointed at a backpack that said 'Borderline' and said something like: that's me.

I didn't really think anything of that because at that time I thought 'borderline' was something between neurosis and psychosis and I thought his ex-gf had just been nasty, that she'd meant something like 'you're a borderline psychiatric case'. I only found out months later, when I was googling personality disorders, that he had BPD and then I remembered that he had referred to it.

I didn't breach the subject then because one is adviced not to, but later after a break-up when we were communicating relatively well I did, but I didn't make a big thing out of it. Said something like: 'That borderline stuff is really difficult for me. Want more coffee?'

The last time I mentioned BPD in a similar way something interesting happened a couple of days later. He started talking about his previous relationships, but the duration of several relationships was now years longer (much longer than what he had told me multiple times before and what I know from his family). He has the required 5 out of 9 criteria, and I think he wanted to make his previous relationships sound stable so he would only fit 4 criteria. Then he wouldn't have BPD officially.  Idea

Sometimes I wonder if he mentioned borderline early on in the relationship to make me put up with behaviour I wouldn't put up with normally. It did have that effect on me when I found out.

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« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2013, 09:15:52 AM »

Harma !

My T (expert on BPD from 25 years experience) says BPD is 'contagious'. Being with a pwBPD rubs off. There are several threads on the boards on the subject confirming that statement. Also as per my own experience, manifesting character traits in me previously not experienced in my life;

-clinging, jealousy, controlling

-black & white perception of her

-crying and feeling 'little'

-two times i raged

supposedly BPD traits, which I never experienced in any previous relationship in life.

However 'damaged' it is not permanent and things settle with time as per the  detachment process. I mean it is paramount to understand and accept that one (dysfunctional) individual can have an immense impact on another. Now your'e in a place you never experienced before, and that alone can be scary to anyone, let alone the kind of place your'e in. Be assured, you'll get back to who you were before this interaction, and from there you'll grow.

I went NC after the fourth breakup (which was devastating to me), and I recognize all the feelings and inner turmoil you describe. I strongly believe NC is a prerequisite to enable the detachment process to have it's way. Contact, I believe, only fuels the entanglement, confusion, feelings and turmoil. Hard, yes I know, like medicine that tastes awful but is effective.

Within that frame of NC, what have helped me in the process of detachment is:

-educating myself about BPD, reading several books, surfing the net, being here on the boards, reading and posting. Particularly reading all the posts of member 2010 have been VERY helpful.

-being with my T (25 years BPD experience) has been VERY helpful. Before I hade a 'standard' T, which wasnt very helpful. From these sessions, I share what have helped me to detach i my threads labelled 'Sharing'

- letting out emotions, crying, raging, ... .  

-journalling

-exercise, dancing

-eating healthy food - Veggies Proteins and fat - VERY important. (Proteins are building blocks for our neurotransmitters like serotonin, endorphin etc... .  ) I also take supplements.

The 'spirit' you are lacking will come.

/Careman

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sad but wiser
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« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2013, 02:23:58 PM »

Harm,

I sure hope you're feeling better today than last night!  This phase takes time and patience.  You will get better.  For me, part of the grieving was for what I wouldn't have, not really for the relationship I lost.  You see, even though my BPD partner was my best friend, he was also my worst enemy.  I cried because I had to admit that the relationship I thought I was marrying into just was NEVER going to materialize.  I cried because I knew that I was unlikely to trust my heart ever again, so the relationship I wanted so badly wasn't going to happen ever in my life.  He was my only hope for that kind of strong and compassionate relationship.  I let him in so entirely.  Now what?  Well, I'm getting better and you will too.  Go back to your interests, and fake it until you make it.  I mean it, most of us feel guilty if we enjoy ourselves.  We've bought into the blame and shame.  It isn't right.  It isn't true.  Laugh at something silly.  Go for a walk in the sunshine.  Let yourself wake up.  You can do it.  All the Best.
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jp254958
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« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2013, 03:41:45 PM »

Harm,

It's interesting that you alluded to her mother laughing about the BPD suggestion and seeming unawareness of the disorder.  One thing that has puzzled me is that my own ex seemed to hide her own behavior to her parents, and it's sometimes made me second guess everything because I would think that her mother would have noticed signs of BPD / emotional instability.  But she was clueless.  The only people who really seemed to know "the real" ex were myself and her ex husband, and perhaps earlier boyfriends.

I think her mother didn't experience this because my ex had to play out the family dynamic of being a good girl whose feelings weren't acknowledged.  Her mother never knew she was a meth addict, or SEVERELY depressed, or socially awkward, and she certainly didn't know about the tumultuous behavior that I experienced with my ex, or that my ex displayed in front of her ex husband.

I'm curious whether anyone else has been in a relationship with a BPD partner and their parents knew nothing about their real behavior - i.e., the really bad stuff.

Harm, was your ex's mother clueless about the tumultuous behavior / emotional dysregulation?
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freshlySane
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« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2013, 04:56:23 PM »

Harm,

It's interesting that you alluded to her mother laughing about the BPD suggestion and seeming unawareness of the disorder.  One thing that has puzzled me is that my own ex seemed to hide her own behavior to her parents, and it's sometimes made me second guess everything because I would think that her mother would have noticed signs of BPD / emotional instability.  But she was clueless.  The only people who really seemed to know "the real" ex were myself and her ex husband, and perhaps earlier boyfriends.

I think her mother didn't experience this because my ex had to play out the family dynamic of being a good girl whose feelings weren't acknowledged.  Her mother never knew she was a meth addict, or SEVERELY depressed, or socially awkward, and she certainly didn't know about the tumultuous behavior that I experienced with my ex, or that my ex displayed in front of her ex husband.

I'm curious whether anyone else has been in a relationship with a BPD partner and their parents knew nothing about their real behavior - i.e., the really bad stuff.

Harm, was your ex's mother clueless about the tumultuous behavior / emotional dysregulation?

for my ex her parents died her grandmother raised her and knew of something being wrong with her now they do not talk my ex painting her black because her grandma couldn't take her attitude anymore her brother who is oblivious to this disorder chalks it up to her adolescent  problems but with him she is so much different showing the side of the great sister and never letting on to her problems me her ex husband and ex girlfriend have  all been subject to physical and emotional abuse even her ex mother in law told her i wish my son never married a women like you. to certain people i guess they can put on a face of healthy i dont know its all wierd
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« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2013, 08:16:20 PM »

Hi Harmkrakow.  Wow, I just read all of these posts and have a flood of emotions running through me.  Yes, there are people out there who have experienced just what I have, and I'm not nuts in being so depressed and emotional over the ending of my r/s with my BPDX!

Today is 30 days that I have not seen him. I ended a 4.5 year r/s which should not have happened in the first place. I ended it because I finally found out the lies, the other women. I started to research BPD and there HE was, and now his strange behavioral changes toward me, aggressive and mean behavior was making sense to me. He is truly ill, but I couldn't forget the lies and deception. I have an addiction... .  I am addicted to him! I can't see him or I will go back... .  mostly to save him, but really it is a lot about saving me too.  Addictions are powerful, and I am powerless over mine when it comes to him. 

My addiction to this man took everything away from me in 4.5 years. I used to be very active, had many goals and worked hard to reach them. There was great satisfaction in my job and I was very involved with my children. I had my problems, but I was a good Mom. I was sucked up by him and loving the idealization ... .  i thought I met my soul mate. I did anything for him. I basically almost got asked to leave a job I had been at for 10 years, because I would decide not to work, so I could spend more time with him. I became a chronic liar to my friends, family, co-workers, and clients - just so I could be with him. I was extremely active and healthy and stopped a lot of that, because he wanted to spend more time with me. I let all my goals go... .  saving him became the #1 thing in my life. My relationship with my children suffered greatly.  I lost my identity, my self esteem,

and my intellectual mind... .  literally I used to read all the time, and stopped that too. I lost interest in ME, because it was all about him.

I hit rock bottom too.  For me it took hitting rock bottom in order to start to change my life, and every minute of every hour of every day has been overwhelmingly difficult. In my situation, unfortunately, I don't have the opportunity to share my emotions with anyone other than my therapist. I have a lot to work on in order to heal and I am very scared and very broken, but darn it, if all these 100's of other people out there can do this thing, well then I know I can. I cannot do it alone... .  I know that for certain. I also know that letting me think about him to a point is o.k., but I cannot let thoughts of him sit in my head too long, because it is damaging for me, and I just get more depressed. I pray for him every day that he will find help and peace, but know it cannot be from me.  I want my life back today!  I feel like I will die if I don't have my life back, and I am not going to let him have that much power over me... .  NOT ANYMORE!

So, I'm going to try to read a book, do some push-ups, give myself a hug, and thank my higher power for the strength to walk through one more day.

One day at a time!  You are not alone!

Truefaith

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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2013, 01:28:47 PM »

Harm,

It's interesting that you alluded to her mother laughing about the BPD suggestion and seeming unawareness of the disorder.  One thing that has puzzled me is that my own ex seemed to hide her own behavior to her parents, and it's sometimes made me second guess everything because I would think that her mother would have noticed signs of BPD / emotional instability.  But she was clueless.  The only people who really seemed to know "the real" ex were myself and her ex husband, and perhaps earlier boyfriends.

I think her mother didn't experience this because my ex had to play out the family dynamic of being a good girl whose feelings weren't acknowledged.  Her mother never knew she was a meth addict, or SEVERELY depressed, or socially awkward, and she certainly didn't know about the tumultuous behavior that I experienced with my ex, or that my ex displayed in front of her ex husband.

I'm curious whether anyone else has been in a relationship with a BPD partner and their parents knew nothing about their real behavior - i.e., the really bad stuff.

Harm, was your ex's mother clueless about the tumultuous behavior / emotional dysregulation?

Her parents have no idea. Mother didn't even know father cheated on her although she realized he was cheating on mother when ex was younger. Other than that, the fysical, sexual abuse with the ex-bf was never been told to the parents. Nor that the ex threatened my ex with threats to kill.

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LuckyEscapee
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« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2013, 12:39:20 AM »

Excerpt
I got an email from her last night ending with; ciaoo my awesome friend! i will never forget ho much you ve done for me in the past that is why i want we can respect each other for ever ciao ciao ciao 

Sorry HarmKrakow this must suck for you. Lets hope this is the last time she makes you feel bad through her complete insensitivity of how bad you are suffering. You don't need her type of respect. She reminds me of my ex here, trying to excuse the situation and rewrite history to keep open an option to be 'friends'. Don't let her ever again yank your chain, stay well away and heal yourself. You are better than that type of dysfunctional relationship. 
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« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2013, 05:21:28 PM »

Interesting you say that ... .  I told my ex after she was breaking up with me for the 10 billionth time, but I kinda knew that this last time I saw her was it so I told her.  

Perhaps there is some hope for your ex if she came to you with it.  It takes openness to find answers and get help.  All mine did was deny, reject, project, lie, etc. to get out of any acknowledgement that her behavior was unstable or that she needed help.

The good news is, I realize that I was wrong to think that this was ever my problem.  Her healthiness is up to her.  

The night I went to her house, she refused to let me in (she didn't know I was coming, she hadn't contacted me since about 6 months) but felt compelled shortly after because there were friends of ours in a car nearby and her kids had gone out of their rooms and had seen me. Our friends had given me a drive to her house from the bus station. During the "negociations" in front of the door, she started talking out loud in order to draw attention, saying that I was mentally ill, etc. Interestingly, I only told her about BPD about 1 month after that incident, never ever before.

She denied, rejected, projected and lied too. She even told me that I had destroyed her life because of what I had done to her... Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) Her house was an utter mess. The kids told me not to worry about the mess because she was packing up in order to join me in my country very soon. I had the divorce papers in my bagpack. Noticing that she had even lied to the kids, lied to those who were the most important "thing" in her life broke something in my heart towards her. The woman with whom I had fallen in love wouldn't have been able to do it, unless the honesty that I liked in her was just a mask that she had been wearing since always... .  

I feel the same as you, not feeling guilty saved me indeed from many painful feelings, remorse and thoughts !
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Johan
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« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2013, 04:08:29 PM »

This thread is like you just got inside my head and typed for me. Its scary how much this is my life right now.
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« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2013, 10:56:59 PM »

Excerpt
Yip, it's amazing though. Everything backfires, no matter how you throw it, whatever you say. It's been structured again and thrown back at you.

You are seeking to solve your pain through her. She isn't playing the same game anymore. You are in devaluation where you were in idealization before. Not only does she not "complete" you anymore she hits at where you are weakest. This is why NC can be a good thing for a time. It is recognition that who you are seeking pain relief from isn't going to give you what you need. It is a step in putting you first. You have a self soothing, self confidence problem now. How do you get yourself to do the best things for your own emotional well being? How do you start looking beyond her for your comfort? How do you start focusing past the failed relationship and on your own wounds that need healing? 24 hour focus on her isn't going to help. There has to be a point where harm starts seeing harm again. I know how darn tough it is. I know it sucks beyond belief. Gotta start doing some reality testing though. What works. What doesn't work. The game has changed. It will not be the same. Change needs to happen.

What is your daily routine right now? Spell out a week for us. What are you really doing right now to be good to yourself and focus energy on your own well being. This must become a priority. There can be no substitutions.
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« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2013, 01:40:25 AM »

I did tell my ex "she should seek help for her borderline personality" a few hours after having her tell me she wanted to see people had settled in.  She had no response at the time but when we spoke 2 days later she told me that's not something you should tell someone if you ever want to speak to them again.  And the only reason I had mentioned it was because during one of her first real serious episodes of trying a push-pull tactic and basically going from "you are my world, i can't live without you" to "never wanting to see me again", I convinced her to come over after work and discuss the issues.  She had a moment of enlightenment during our conversation and said she needed to stop doing this, and that's when I brought up my suspicion (from before we dated) and she asked what the symptoms were and i read them off to her and she said "that's me, what's the treatment" and then said she'd never do counseling alone.

We don't talk anymore it's been about 4 weeks of no contact for her and about 2 for me, but she was cordial in the 1.5 weeks after the initial breakup.
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« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2013, 05:05:44 PM »

Excerpt
Yip, it's amazing though. Everything backfires, no matter how you throw it, whatever you say. It's been structured again and thrown back at you.

How do you get yourself to do the best things for your own emotional well being? How do you start looking beyond her for your comfort? How do you start focusing past the failed relationship and on your own wounds that need healing? 24 hour focus on her isn't going to help. There has to be a point where harm starts seeing harm again. I know how darn tough it is. I know it sucks beyond belief. Gotta start doing some reality testing though. What works. What doesn't work. The game has changed. It will not be the same. Change needs to happen.

What is your daily routine right now? Spell out a week for us. What are you really doing right now to be good to yourself and focus energy on your own well being. This must become a priority. There can be no substitutions.

As of this point I don't have a daily routine besides going to the supermarket and do reading for a research paper I have to finish in July. Besides cleaning the house + eating + bathroom and sleeping there is no routine. I have a meeting with a friend of mine in April to do shopping for new clothes/barber. Thats it.

You know, the questions you outlayed here are awesome, unfortunately, I feel I aint possible to answer them right now, but would like to have them answered. Therefore I wonder. Could you answer these about your own situation? For the people who are further in their detachment, how could you answer the following questions? Cuz atm, i tend to fall back on doing all the common mistakes, easy as that. Constantly ... one after the other. Same mistake, over and over again. Checking her out, hoping for contact, constantly dreaming about her... etc.

Excerpt
How do you get yourself to do the best things for your own emotional well being? How do you start looking beyond her for your comfort? How do you start focusing past the failed relationship and on your own wounds that need healing?

And you are so right, it must become a priority...
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« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2013, 05:48:19 PM »

Major backfire for me.  the following is part of an email she sent to me 2 hours after I told her to look up "Personality disorders"


"you stated among other things, that you believe I have a personality disorder?  Just because this hasn't gone your way?   I am now seriously questioning your mental state, and must take the action to protect myself and my children.  Attached you will find a Notice of Trespass and an order to Cease and Desist.  I am sorry that it has come to this."


And since she is never wrong, then I must be the one that is crazy.
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« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2013, 05:58:55 PM »

After reading that email, I am so glad I've kept my mouth shut.  There is no way in the world I will ever, ever tell my ex what I think she has.  

Im so happy this isn't my concern anymore.  I could totally see her writing something just like this, especially in the name of protecting her kids.

I'm free.  And no restraining orders!  Sheesh.
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« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2013, 06:06:21 PM »

I would just add a little remark on the statement of being abused as a child: are you sure about that? Is she your only source of that info? Because from what I have experienced, they portray themselves as victims to get your simpathy (meaning to control and use you), no matter how much they have to lie to get their goals.

My 2 BPD´s had had a normal childhood, a very VERY loving father, and still, always portrayed themselves as victims. I would be very scheptical about what they say.
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« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2013, 11:54:37 AM »

I did tell my partner. Didn't solve anything mind you, didn't make it any worse either. It was bad to begin with. He did admit  to it 2-3 times,but of course later denied it. Back to square one.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2013, 04:08:19 PM »

It seems to me that the diagnosis for BPD is somewhat subjective, even when done by a professional.  My ex was diagnosed as having BPD traits by a professional, but she says they told her she doesn't "have BPD".  I took a BPD test for her, based on my observation of her behavior over 2+ years.   In My assessment she shows a LOT of common BPD traits.  Now I'm no professional by any means, but the argument could be made that I know her better than a professional who spent a few hours with her and made an assessment.  Obviously I defer to the pros, but it seems that diagnosing BPD could be pretty difficult.  It's not like you can take a blood sample.

At some point, it seems to become an argument of semantics to me.  If a person exhibits BPD traits and it affects their ability to function and maintain healthy relationships, they could benefit from types of treatment proven effective for BPD (such as DBT).  However, I agree with the common therapy approach of not "labeling" the patient.  My ex is terrified of being labeled.   I think I would be too.  When my ex was first diagnosed as "BPD traits", she seemed relieved to have found out what caused her such pain and troubles.  She brought the disorder to my attention, as I had never heard of it.  As she read the common traits, she even said, "Isn't this me?".  In our limited communication since then, she is EXTREMELY sensitive to the slightest mention of BPD, even though she's in therapy for it.  As a matter of fact, she recently became aware that I have visited a website (this one) for people in or recently out of relationships with BPD sufferers.   Just her knowledge of me visiting this site was me "labeling her" in her eyes- and she's in treatment. 

Based on my experience, I can't imagine how "telling someone they have BPD" could ever be good; for you or for them. 
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« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2013, 04:33:37 PM »

I know this already has 3 pages of replies but I had to post a reply :

She is projecting BADLY. MANY people on this board have been accused of having BPD by their BPD partner!

The one or two times I "revealed" to ex husband that he probably has BPD he said I WAS the one with BPD (and he knows nothing about it)

Since she is you ex don't worry... . only feeds the monster within her
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« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2013, 11:42:40 PM »

Excerpt
She brought the disorder to my attention, as I had never heard of it.  As she read the common traits, she even said, "Isn't this me?".  In our limited communication since then, she is EXTREMELY sensitive to the slightest mention of BPD, even though she's in therapy for it.  As a matter of fact, she recently became aware that I have visited a website (this one) for people in or recently out of relationships with BPD sufferers.   Just her knowledge of me visiting this site was me "labeling her" in her eyes- and she's in treatment.



Denial kicking in. Even she is in treatment for the same, she denies it. A typical trait. Does it serve to feed denial? It's one thing to respect their feelings and not bring it up and quite another to feed the denial train.

BPD are not mentally incapacitated, but emotionally and reality incapacitated.

Excerpt
She is projecting BADLY. MANY people on this board have been accused of having BPD by their BPD partner!

The one or two times I "revealed" to ex husband that he probably has BPD he said I WAS the one with BPD (and he knows nothing about it)

I get therapy thrown in my face as I was the one to seek therapy, ergo, I am the crazy one. It was in therapy that my therapist, very familiar with BPD, suggested that I find information online and to let him know, did my relationship look like that of one with a BPD. It did to a T and then some. A label doesn't matter, but the behaviors do.

In my experience, telling him, made no difference, but what was telling was the admission, then the denial. Can't argue with it.

Since this woman is your ex, don't worry about it. Nothing will come of it either way.

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« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2013, 07:50:28 AM »

Excerpt
She brought the disorder to my attention, as I had never heard of it.  As she read the common traits, she even said, "Isn't this me?".  In our limited communication since then, she is EXTREMELY sensitive to the slightest mention of BPD, even though she's in therapy for it.  As a matter of fact, she recently became aware that I have visited a website (this one) for people in or recently out of relationships with BPD sufferers.   Just her knowledge of me visiting this site was me "labeling her" in her eyes- and she's in treatment.



Denial kicking in. Even she is in treatment for the same, she denies it. A typical trait. Does it serve to feed denial? It's one thing to respect their feelings and not bring it up and quite another to feed the denial train.

BPD are not mentally incapacitated, but emotionally and reality incapacitated.

Excerpt
She is projecting BADLY. MANY people on this board have been accused of having BPD by their BPD partner!

The one or two times I "revealed" to ex husband that he probably has BPD he said I WAS the one with BPD (and he knows nothing about it)

I get therapy thrown in my face as I was the one to seek therapy, ergo, I am the crazy one. It was in therapy that my therapist, very familiar with BPD, suggested that I find information online and to let him know, did my relationship look like that of one with a BPD. It did to a T and then some. A label doesn't matter, but the behaviors do.

In my experience, telling him, made no difference, but what was telling was the admission, then the denial. Can't argue with it.

Since this woman is your ex, don't worry about it. Nothing will come of it either way.

Oh me too me too! Just because I started seeking therapy from all of his crazy making he used it against me badly.
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« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2013, 08:43:59 AM »

Excerpt
She brought the disorder to my attention, as I had never heard of it.  As she read the common traits, she even said, "Isn't this me?".  In our limited communication since then, she is EXTREMELY sensitive to the slightest mention of BPD, even though she's in therapy for it.  As a matter of fact, she recently became aware that I have visited a website (this one) for people in or recently out of relationships with BPD sufferers.   Just her knowledge of me visiting this site was me "labeling her" in her eyes- and she's in treatment.



Denial kicking in. Even she is in treatment for the same, she denies it. A typical trait. Does it serve to feed denial? It's one thing to respect their feelings and not bring it up and quite another to feed the denial train.

BPD are not mentally incapacitated, but emotionally and reality incapacitated.

Excerpt
She is projecting BADLY. MANY people on this board have been accused of having BPD by their BPD partner!

The one or two times I "revealed" to ex husband that he probably has BPD he said I WAS the one with BPD (and he knows nothing about it)

I get therapy thrown in my face as I was the one to seek therapy, ergo, I am the crazy one. It was in therapy that my therapist, very familiar with BPD, suggested that I find information online and to let him know, did my relationship look like that of one with a BPD. It did to a T and then some. A label doesn't matter, but the behaviors do.

In my experience, telling him, made no difference, but what was telling was the admission, then the denial. Can't argue with it.

Since this woman is your ex, don't worry about it. Nothing will come of it either way.

Oh me too me too! Just because I started seeking therapy from all of his crazy making he used it against me badly.

Yip. Same here, just because I go therapy, she keeps yelling, but you are the one in therapy!
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« Reply #45 on: March 29, 2013, 08:53:30 AM »

I would just add a little remark on the statement of being abused as a child: are you sure about that? Is she your only source of that info? Because from what I have experienced, they portray themselves as victims to get your simpathy (meaning to control and use you), no matter how much they have to lie to get their goals.

My 2 BPD´s had had a normal childhood, a very VERY loving father, and still, always portrayed themselves as victims. I would be very scheptical about what they say.

I'm with you on this !

Back when I was dating the wonderful and beautiful girl who is now my future ex-wife, she used to write reams to me about her childhood and the mistreatments and various sexual abuses of which she supposedly was the object. I must admit that I swallowed it all hook, line and sinker... . Now, in hindsight, I stand back a lot from all of this and start questioning much of it. About 10 months ago, she put videos on youtube in which she says that she was sexually molested by an older boy when she was 6 yo. I'm not an expert in such things and even if back then I was ready to give her the benefit of the doubt, I really wonder now (I may be wrong though) whether a 6 yo girl may remember and be so emotionally devastated as she says by a one-off abuse like this. Careful ! I'm not implying that such a terrible event may not leave traumas or can be considered as nothing. I'm just questioning the way she used this with me and uses it now on a greater scale on youtube in order to draw attention and sympathy from the "general public".

Manifestly from what I can conclude from the videos, she keeps having a psychological hang-up, a mental block in regards to her childhood and, according to what she told me about her mother and other relatives, about her first ex-husband and what she told about me on the phone to "john does" with whom she was talking during the night I spent at her home (I overheard what she was saying to them in the silence of the night), she's surrounded by jerks and witches who hate and bully her whenever they feel like it... .

There aren't mentally ill people around me in my family and kin and kith which makes me quite naive when it comes to red flags... . I really bought into most of what she was telling me, just like the people who were on the phone with her that evening and night (one of them wanted to talk to me and yelled at me, even insulted me like crazy).

Regarding her family, she would say that they were persecuting her or treating her badly but their reactions were more protection measures and distancing themselves from the havoc and nonsensical nature of her life. They are sad, suffer and cringe when they happen to know what becomes of her and of the consequences of her silly decisions and being tired of all of it now, they stay aloof from her. Her recent decisions regarding our marriage and her flight like a thief to nowhere-land put the last nail on the coffin of their hopes regarding her, if they ever had any.

When she's lucid for a while, she considers herself as mere dirt (whenever she realizes that the dire situations she's in are the result of her own making) and in self-loathing ways and the rest of the time, she's a victim surrounded by judgmental bullies whose unique goal in life is to destroy hers.
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« Reply #46 on: March 29, 2013, 10:16:38 AM »

Flatspin, I sympathize with you!

Im not surprised from her behaviour, I have seen that hapening too. People are usually nice and naive, we believe what we are told. Why would people lie? We forget about the attention-seekers and wannabe victims... . Its a very useful tool for BPDs, I believe its a way of manipulation and control.

Who wouldnt sympathize with a victim of abuse, especially if it happened when she was a child? Plus, no one will show up and say its a lie, all family members are away, since they cant take decades of such behaviour. I had to go NC, its unbeliavable the ammount of damage they can bring into the family: they create fights, throw people against each other so they can be the only focus of attention and love. I have seen they isolate people so they have the person for himself. Its a very sad condition, I dare to say especially for the family.
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« Reply #47 on: March 29, 2013, 10:45:46 AM »

My exBPDgf moved out unexpectedly after I returned from a 4 day trip. Where we kissed passionately and said I love yous at the airport when she dropped me off. On my return she was an hour late picking me up and not able to look at me. She packed a couple bags and left all her stuff behind at the end of the week. We went through a horrible 3 month push/pull cycle that was extremely painful. I have never received an explanation for it. I finally realized I wasn't going to get one and had to move on for my own health and sanity.

I resigned myself to a period of NC. It was partly out of anger and partly out of self protection. I still loved her very much but needed space to get my bearings and my emotional health on the right track. Some of the long term posters here talked me through my anger and I was able to get beyond that.

I think I needed this time to myself mostly to start ending the ruminations and start thinking about me and my life again. I am really fond of starting a routine when I am in a bad place emotionally. We are creatures of habit and if we spend our down time feelinig depressed this will become our habit.

At the start I just wanted to sit in bed and cry and think about her all day. I knew I had to get moving again if I was ever going to get beyond it so I foced myself to start. Mine looked something like this... .

I joined a crossfit gym and started working out 3 days a week. As time went on I met new friends there and started going 5 days a week. Great way to destress and imporve your fitness and overall health.

I started eating healthy non processed foods and made a point to minimize alchohol intake.

I made it a point to engage more with my family. To call and talk at least once a week.

I fixed a friendship that became strained because my ex picked a fight with my friends wife. These were people I had a long history with. They have 3 kids. I spent this last christmas with them skiing in Oregon. So happy our friendship wasn't ruined. He was working a construction job in downtime Seattle at the time and I would meet him for happy hour every Friday.

I joined a couple meetup.com groups. One was a foodie meetup at various restaurants and the other was an outdoor activity meetup group. Truly met some wonderful people and new social experiences are very healing after a hurtful breakup. I wasn't looking for love. I was just looking to restore my faith in humanity. 

I learned to meditate to better control my thoughts and help with the ruminations. I still practice every day.

I started working on my cottage again. I was remodeling it but my ex was really making it difficult because I would start and she would decide she wanted something different. LOL. After our 3 months push/pull I told her I was going to put her stuff in storage and drop off the key. I told this story on this site. She insisted she would come get it and during one of her trips out she surprised me as I was riping cupboards out. I losst focus and cut my hand open. She had to drive me to the clinic to get stiched up!

I allowed myself an hour a day to sit and reflect and to just be really sad or angry or whatever I needed to feel. I think we need to acknowledge our pain and hurt but not dwell in it.

I did see a therapist and found it helpful. Sometimes you have to press them to get feedback. Don't do all the talking. Share a little ask them to respond. Share a little ask them to respond.

Your's might look different. Depending on what interests you. Give it some thought.

Be kind to yourself... . these are difficult times for you,

OTH
Excerpt
Yip, it's amazing though. Everything backfires, no matter how you throw it, whatever you say. It's been structured again and thrown back at you.

How do you get yourself to do the best things for your own emotional well being? How do you start looking beyond her for your comfort? How do you start focusing past the failed relationship and on your own wounds that need healing? 24 hour focus on her isn't going to help. There has to be a point where harm starts seeing harm again. I know how darn tough it is. I know it sucks beyond belief. Gotta start doing some reality testing though. What works. What doesn't work. The game has changed. It will not be the same. Change needs to happen.

What is your daily routine right now? Spell out a week for us. What are you really doing right now to be good to yourself and focus energy on your own well being. This must become a priority. There can be no substitutions.

As of this point I don't have a daily routine besides going to the supermarket and do reading for a research paper I have to finish in July. Besides cleaning the house + eating + bathroom and sleeping there is no routine. I have a meeting with a friend of mine in April to do shopping for new clothes/barber. Thats it.

You know, the questions you outlayed here are awesome, unfortunately, I feel I aint possible to answer them right now, but would like to have them answered. Therefore I wonder. Could you answer these about your own situation? For the people who are further in their detachment, how could you answer the following questions? Cuz atm, i tend to fall back on doing all the common mistakes, easy as that. Constantly ... one after the other. Same mistake, over and over again. Checking her out, hoping for contact, constantly dreaming about her... etc.

Excerpt
How do you get yourself to do the best things for your own emotional well being? How do you start looking beyond her for your comfort? How do you start focusing past the failed relationship and on your own wounds that need healing?

And you are so right, it must become a priority...

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« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2013, 04:07:31 PM »

On projection:
... . I only feel that way after having contact with him.  He pushes every button I have with excruciating precision.  Sometimes I was sure that I was crazy.  I have to look at the hard evidence:  I am functioning in life, he is not; others have assured me that I make sense to them; the only truly volatile relationship I have is with him;  he behaves in ways that no one else I know does.  Educate yourself thoroughly, not just here, but through other articles about BPD.  It helps.

Yep. Accurately describes how my SO/upBPD behaves, in terms of the projection of her feelings onto me -- negative assumptions and motivations -- and claiming that I do to her exactly what she's doing to me. One of her favorite lines when tearing me down is "Ask anyone and they'll agree with me."
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« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2013, 09:45:40 PM »

In my case... .

It really made no difference.

She admitted to her disorder.

Denied it.

Admitted/denied it.

Denied/admitted it.

Either.

Or.

Both.

Then she started reading a self help book.

That was her way of further masking the fact that she has this disorder.

And a way to show her enabling family/ fake friends that she was in "personal development"... .

They of course all encouraged her and applauded her.

This all occurred in the secound round of relationship in devaluation.

While she was destroying me.

Sickened me to no end.

I never want to see that self help book ever again.

I cringe whenever i hear someone mention it.

I spent 2 different stints in pysch wards(7 days and 30 days) for suicide attempts a few years ago.

She knew this personal dark part of my life.

I tried to show her that i understood she was disordered.

After what i had gone through in that dark time... .How could i look at anyone else with a mental illness as bad?

I wouldnt have wanted people to view me like that.

None of that made any difference to her.

I tried.

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« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2013, 11:18:17 PM »

My Ex said once in a text that "he was admittedly insane" and that if we could communicate we could get through anything. I of course was still in the fog and didn't want to say "yes you are insane" and have him get upset with me, so I said no your not you're just have issues with your temper or something like that. Hmm, wonder if I had agreed he would of explained it further, and we could of really talked about it, guess I'll never know.

I know he had OCD with obsessive thoughts and anxiety and took medication for that and depression, I'm not sure if he thought he was BPD. I had met him 6 months into his second recovery(recovering alcoholic), he had relapsed by drinking and taking pills and his Mom found him at his apartment and he was taken to the hospital and he told me he had to go to the phych ward. Since whether not he meant it or not, the relapse was a suicide attempt or at least at least cry for help. Close to the end of the relationship he admitted to trying to kill himself and cutting himself, however he never did anything like that around me. I feel he he raged and outwardly expressed his pain and projected his pain on me instead of hurting himself. Although, once he did pretend he had cut himself and used fake blood (we bought for Halloween) to make me think he had hurt himself and I ran over and helped him wash it, so we could see how bad it was. He told me pretty early on that he was kidding but he was happy I was so quick to help, he acted impressed. Not sure if that was a sign, however he was very childish with the fake blood and made a few jokes with it.

Anyway, it's weird to say all this now, now that I'm detached some, I feel like I'm being cold or something but the more I look at his issues out of the fog, it just proves how unhealthy he is and what I let myself stay in. I let myself date someone who had relapsed 6 months before we started our relationship and he wasn't ready for me or anyone! I don't blame myself because he was looking to date and at first I thought he knew what his problems were and were working on them, going to therapy and AA. However, he stopped going to AA after a few months of us together. He felt that it wasn't the right place for him, but mostly because he was burned out. Also, therapy (sometimes I wonder if he really went, I don't trust him anymore) he only did when things were really bad and then he would stop... .it was regular talk therapy. I'm sure there was a part of me that was attracted to someone that had a tough life but was working on making it better. He worked on myself but only a little and then gave up and I still stayed but I loved him so it was hard to let go.

Hmm, and his boundary breaking and still hanging out old haunts, I don't think he is a pillar of health right now. Just let some thoughts flow. I know he knows there's something wrong with him but at this point, I don't think he is doing anything about it, but I am NC so I don't know.
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« Reply #51 on: September 14, 2013, 05:00:09 PM »

Very interesting to see my own post of the second of march  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
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« Reply #52 on: September 14, 2013, 05:36:24 PM »

Very interesting to see my own post of the second of march  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I bet!  I sometimes go back and look at some of my old posts, and it's an interesting experience.

So, what are you thinking re-reading this now?
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“The path to heaven doesn't lie down in flat miles. It's in the imagination with which you perceive this world, and the gestures with which you honor it." ~ Mary Oliver
HarmKrakow
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« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2013, 05:42:18 PM »

Very interesting to see my own post of the second of march  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I bet!  I sometimes go back and look at some of my old posts, and it's an interesting experience.

So, what are you thinking re-reading this now?

Truth? Actual truth? You can read the shouting overdone emotions and 'cry' for help in that post. Easily to tell I was shocked and unexpected with whatever was happening at the time and my brain couldn't dissect it at all. I heavily overreacted on every signal she gave me. Heavily. Every little tear drop was one to many.

Now months further, I became a very bitter, more grey vision towards looking person, crawling his way back up on the ladder. New house, new friends, had EMDR therapy.

The peak/through got cut of in my field of emotions. It's more mellow but I just got more of a bitter old fart. It's like this experience made me 40 years older.
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« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2013, 05:55:07 PM »

It's like this experience made me 40 years older.

How about, glass half full... .40 years wiser?  

Looking at some of the threads on Building a New Relationship board, you'll see a lot of folks talking about looking for 'boring' people now.  Of course no one really means boring, but more settled and stable.  Being settled is not a bad thing.  Striving to be ok with being settled or mature, instead of perceiving it as old and beaten down takes some time to adjust to.

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“The path to heaven doesn't lie down in flat miles. It's in the imagination with which you perceive this world, and the gestures with which you honor it." ~ Mary Oliver
HarmKrakow
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« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2013, 05:59:14 PM »

It's like this experience made me 40 years older.

How about, glass half full... .40 years wiser?  

Looking at some of the threads on Building a New Relationship board, you'll see a lot of folks talking about looking for 'boring' people now.  Of course no one really means boring, but more settled and stable.  Being settled is not a bad thing.  Striving to be ok with being settled or mature, instead of perceiving it as old and beaten down takes some time to adjust to.

I'm currently dating another girl, completely the opposite of my BPD ex, like almost a 180 degree turn besides 1 thing. The drama, it's still there but on a whole other level.

I'm bitter because my trust towards others has declined, as my joy in life. I've done the A-Z bucketlist from forward to backward and so forth in high speed. With none I had any specific joy at all  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). After I tried that experiment, I decided to get back on with life, finish a project and get a new flat and start applying for jobs again.
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