I just don't get it?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I have to get something of my chest. Another example of behaviour that I just could not understand and that really hurt me. I'm hoping some of the people here with some experience can shed some light on it as I'm finding out there always seems to be some sort of underling motive for the way they sometimes behave.

After dating my ex for a few months naturally, I had now met her sister several times. Her and her son were invited over for my birthday dinner and such. You know, the usual stuff.

After a couple of months her sister added me on facebook. I said to my ex when I noticed "oh your sister sent me a friend request on facebook" not thinking anything of it of course. Well, she proceeded to tell me not to accept the friend request and how it would be so inappropriate to have her sister as a friend on my facebook. Huh? I asked her why? She told me how her sister had always hit on her boyfriends  and how it just wasn't right to have her on my facebook. I said, "but your sister has a new boyfriend that she's crazy about?". She said "I know but still it's just not right. There's no reason for you to have my sister on your facebook. I don't have my sisters boyfriend on mine?". I said "yea I guess, ok then". Although she had never met her sisters boyfriend so the situation wasn't quite the same. Fair enough I thought though.  Still... .  I was a little confused as to why she so adamantly didn't want me adding her sister? Plus, needless to say it was really awkward every time I would see her sister having to make up stories why I "forgot" to add her!

Fast forward to the beginning of December when m ex ended our relationship coldly, abruptly and began to cut me out of her life in every way shape and form. She immediately de-friended me on facebook and blocked me. De-friending me, yea ok I can see that. But to block me too? Why? In a panic I embarrassingly set up a fictitious facebook account so I could view her page. When I went there the first thing I saw was "xxxx is now friends with [insert her sisters boyfriends name here]". She also wrote a post on her wall saying "Guess who may be coming for Christmas dinner? My sisters new man!" Tagging his name in the post! I couldn't believe me eyes. Not only had she added her sisters boyfriend who she's never even met only a month after lecturing me how inappropriate it would be for ME to have her sister on MY facebook but she goes one step further with the post and tag on her wall about him coming for Christmas dinner?

That hurt, that hurt a lot. Matter of fact that's one of the things that still stings to this day. You just walked away from the "love of your life", the guy you "want to marry"... .  your "soulmate" and days later your adding your sisters boyfriend who you've never met and posting on your wall that your excited about him coming for Christmas dinner?... .  

I hope they all enjoyed their dinner as I sat alone in an empty apt on Christmas Day with not even so much as a merry Christmas text.

[Dave44]

I have to get something of my chest. Another example of behaviour that I just could not understand and that really hurt me. I'm hoping some of the people here with some experience can shed some light on it as I'm finding out there always seems to be some sort of underling motive for the way they sometimes behave.

After dating my ex for a few months naturally, I had now met her sister several times. Her and her son were invited over for my birthday dinner and such. You know, the usual stuff.

After a couple of months her sister added me on facebook. I said to my ex when I noticed "oh your sister sent me a friend request on facebook" not thinking anything of it of course. Well, she proceeded to tell me not to accept the friend request and how it would be so inappropriate to have her sister as a friend on my facebook. Huh? I asked her why? She told me how her sister had always hit on her boyfriends  and how it just wasn't right to have her on my facebook. I said, "but your sister has a new boyfriend that she's crazy about?". She said "I know but still it's just not right. There's no reason for you to have my sister on your facebook. I don't have my sisters boyfriend on mine?". I said "yea I guess, ok then". Although she had never met her sisters boyfriend so the situation wasn't quite the same. Fair enough I thought though.  Still... .  I was a little confused as to why she so adamantly didn't want me adding her sister? Plus, needless to say it was really awkward every time I would see her sister having to make up stories why I "forgot" to add her!

Fast forward to the beginning of December when m ex ended our relationship coldly, abruptly and began to cut me out of her life in every way shape and form. She immediately de-friended me on facebook and blocked me. De-friending me, yea ok I can see that. But to block me too? Why? In a panic I embarrassingly set up a fictitious facebook account so I could view her page. When I went there the first thing I saw was "xxxx is now friends with [insert her sisters boyfriends name here]". She also wrote a post on her wall saying "Guess who may be coming for Christmas dinner? My sisters new man!" Tagging his name in the post! I couldn't believe me eyes. Not only had she added her sisters boyfriend who she's never even met only a month after lecturing me how inappropriate it would be for ME to have her sister on MY facebook but she goes one step further with the post and tag on her wall about him coming for Christmas dinner?

That hurt, that hurt a lot. Matter of fact that's one of the things that still stings to this day. You just walked away from the "love of your life", the guy you "want to marry"... .  your "soulmate" and days later your adding your sisters boyfriend who you've never met and posting on your wall that your excited about him coming for Christmas dinner?... .  

I hope they all enjoyed their dinner as I sat alone in an empty apt on Christmas Day with not even so much as a merry Christmas text.

[sunrising]

Extremely childish behavior, which fits the bill quite well for a pwBPD.  Does it make sense that a person who has not progressed beyond the emotional state of a child would do these things?

[healingmyheart]

Dave, I'm sorry, I'm no expert but I can relate to your frustration with the double standard thing.  Seems they can do as they please but we are not allowed that luxury.  

Do you think she was projecting some of her own fears unto you?  I know in my case, my ex was insanely jealous.  He was jealous of my married doctor, the ATT customer service rep who was over friendly, well, just about any guy who looked at me.  In actuality, what my ex was doing was projecting his own guilty pleasure on me.  My counselor said that the more they accuse you of doing things or question you, look strongly at what they are doing.  The whole time my ex accused me of affairs, he was indeed having 3 emotional affairs going on at once.  

Any point I'd like to make... .  the lengths we go to to get answers.  You set up a fake facebook account to satisfy your curiosity.  I called yesterday to confirm an appointment that my ex said he had (which of course he didn't).  When I called, the lady on the phone asked if I was stalking him?  Me, stalking?  I had to stop and realize for a minute how low I had stopped to try and get the truth... .  answers.  It kinda' scared me and made me wonder who was the mentally ill one here... .  I was acting in a very questionable way.  

I think we just have to reach a point where we realize that there is no way to understand their behavior.  We just have to accept it with or without them in our lives and move forward.  

[mango_flower]

I totally agree with Stolemysoul that the double standards are so unfair!

My theory is this - they try and build up THEIR own friendship networks, even on facebook, as they like to have as many people as possible to help them if ever needed... .  to be used and discarded probably - but they also like to isolate us, in order that they have more control.

Just a thought - not sure if this is true in your case but maybe something to think about? x

[Newton]

Yep Dave this behaviour sucks and the other posters have nailed it with the reference to "double standards"... .  

They maintain control with disinformation, misinformation and attempting to divide and conquer friends and family... .  when you call them out on their bs they tend to hide... .  like most bullies do... .  

How have you been?... .  I'm glad to see you posting, venting and dissecting what went on... .  

[healingmyheart]

Speaking of Facebook, it's interesting you should bring up the friends situation.

The whole 2 years we were together, my ex hated facebook and never went on it. He complained I was on it too much oh and I was having affairs with all my male facebook friends.  His facebook page lived vicariously through me by me tagging him in pictures but that was the extend on his Facebook.  He never posted or accepted friends. 

Now, 3 weeks out, he lives on Facebook and everyday has at least 5-10 new friends.  Hmmmm, guess he's on the prowl for a new emotional affair victim. 

It was painful for me to look and yes, I obsessively kept going back to his page and checking.  I finally blocked him and even though it's hard not knowing, its not as hard as looking everyday and questioning. 

[Discarded26]

Speaking of Facebook, it's interesting you should bring up the friends situation.

The whole 2 years we were together, my ex hated facebook and never went on it. He complained I was on it too much oh and I was having affairs with all my male facebook friends.  His facebook page lived vicariously through me by me tagging him in pictures but that was the extend on his Facebook.  He never posted or accepted friends.  

Now, 3 weeks out, he lives on Facebook and everyday has at least 5-10 new friends.  Hmmmm, guess he's on the prowl for a new emotional affair victim.  

It was painful for me to look and yes, I obsessively kept going back to his page and checking.  I finally blocked him and even though it's hard not knowing, its not as hard as looking everyday and questioning.  

Same here, how I got a unexpected message (he was deleted), the place he hated most    

But suppose he has to get his fix somewhere

Funny how they are alike

[ScotisGone74]

I'm sorry to hear that Dave.  The fact is that their immature emotional states have to spill out into immature emotional behavior on their part.  I think that facebook is a great pathway for them to get attention and manipulate others. 

Here is what mine did:  threw a huge fit and complained to me about me getting a

facebook account after she ended the rellationship by having a guy living in her house and lying about it.  Ha, she complained that I friended alot of people that we used to work with that I talked bad about, LOL, what she really meant to say was that they were who she complained about.  She also had the guy she had staying with her on her FB account as in an intimate relationship,  then a couple weeks later as 'engaged' on , but she had him Block me from seeing it-so If I looked on her page I wouldn't see all this, ha,   I had to have someone else fill me in on it.  During this same period she also threw a huge fit about me not being her 'friend' on FB.  Beyond immature, childlike behavior to say the least, after going on five months NC now although I have hurt tremendously my stress level has dropped a boatload. 

[MammaMia]

Facebook makes the "perfect weapon".  Or maybe it is really a "game".

If you really want to move on, you need to get to the point where you honestly do not care what your ex is posting or who their friends are.

Block them.  Do not ask others to feed you information.  Switch to Twitter.  Do what you need to do ... .  but just let it go. 

[Dave44]

Extremely childish behavior, which fits the bill quite well for a pwBPD.  Does it make sense that a person who has not progressed beyond the emotional state of a child would do these things?

Yea I do. Funny thing is this is a 37 year old mother of two. Not a 17 year old tenager.

Yep Dave this behaviour sucks and the other posters have nailed it with the reference to "double standards"... .  

They maintain control with disinformation, misinformation and attempting to divide and conquer friends and family... .  when you call them out on their bs they tend to hide... .  like most bullies do... .  

How have you been?... .  I'm glad to see you posting, venting and dissecting what went on... .  

I'm doing ok thanks. Trying to get through each day as best as I can.

Projection of fears is very interesting. The level of jelousy from my ex was unbelievable -- and I never gave her any reason to be? She never accused me of cheating but she would constantly question me and was always so suspicious. Funny thing is. For the month that I lived with her I counted 5 different men that randomly contacted her through either facebook, email or text. She never hid it nor did she reply and always told me when it happened but still. I could never understand why so many guys would be randomly contacting her. No girls ever contacted me?

[Newton]

Dave I appreciate I may be talking to the converted and you may have understanding of this already... .  have you read the lessons here on "gaslighting"... .  ?

These guys you talk about well may be other victims of her disorder... .  and she let you "know" about them to keep you emotionally unbalanced... .  

People with BPD need to feel they are in control... .  its possible this was the dynamic here... .  

[Dave44]

Dave I appreciate I may be talking to the converted and you may have understanding of this already... .  have you read the lessons here on "gaslighting"... .  ?

These guys you talk about well may be other victims of her disorder... .  and she let you "know" about them to keep you emotionally unbalanced... .  

People with BPD need to feel they are in control... .  its possible this was the dynamic here... .  

I haven't read the lesson on here about it. Where abouts can I find it? I've struggled with the whole gasliting thing - I don't quite understand it? I would like to read the lesson here though and see if I can relate it to the scenario like you just mentioned.

[Newton]

I don't have super ambie "find and post workshops with pretty blue links" powers anymore 

I would suggest using the searchbox up top here and look up "gaslighting"... .  

Or we can both ask a helpful board advisor and they will post you the direct link... .  

I think the information would be really relevant to what you have experienced... .  

[Want2know]

Howdy!  I wanted to follow up and let you know that the term gaslighting, although frequently used by members, is not something we like to use regarding pwBPD.  The term has a very derogatory implication for pwBPD, and is not an official psychological term.

It's hard to know why she did that with the guys on Facebook.  Intentional or not.  I think it's important to not read too much into it, and just look at it as something that happened that was not part of what we would consider a healthy relationship.  More likely is sounds like some narcissistic quality that she may have had.

[GustheDog]

A Google Scholar search for "gaslighting" yields just under 10,000 results, many from highly-pedigreed journals such as the Harvard School of Education, the British Journal of Psychiatry, and Psychoanalytic Quarterly.

(See, e.g., Portnow, Kathryn. Dialogues of doubt: The psychology of self-doubt and emotional gaslighting in adult women and men. Diss. Harvard Graduate School of Education, 1996; Gass, Gertrude Zemon, and William C. Nichols. "Gaslighting: A marital syndrome." Contemporary family therapy 10.1 (1988): 3-16; Calef, Victor, and Edward, M. Weinshel. "Some clinical consequences of introjection: Gaslighting." Psychoanalytic Quarterly 50 (1981): 44-66; Lund, C. A., and A. Q. Gardiner. "The gaslight phenomenon--an institutional variant." The British Journal of Psychiatry 131.5 (1977): 533-534.)

[GreenMango]

Dave I'm so sorry you spent Christmas like that.  That's awful. 

Sometimes to try and figure out why a person that struggles with this disorder does what they do can be really exhausting.  I look back at some of the really inappropriate things and what I put up with and I just shake my head.

It's probably a good thing to talk a little about the disorder, the why's, and how it manifests in real time.  Like many others here mentioned and experienced, we can notice some strange thinking in situations and emotional immature ways things were handled.  All of what I've written below is from personal reading, interpretation, and therapy - it's my understanding of this psychological rabbit hole.

You pointed out how she was hypersensitive to her sister and you being facebook friends and then went on to do the opposite of what she preached.  I'd guess this has quite a bit to do with her perceptions and that if this happened she felt there was a real threat to herself here.  Not in the real-reality sense, but that her perceptions/feelings were true. 

It could be the intimacy trigger - you getting too close.  It could be that if you know her sister you would have found out more things about her that painted her in not so favorable light so she wanted to compartmentalize you two - rejection fears.  It could be she was worried that you would like her sister more than her - abandonment/rejection fears.  I know these sound strange, but on a serious note I've been on the receiving end of these fears however irrational they seem. 

But, it's a rare day if a person has these poor coping skills for them to admit this or to have an adult conversation/resolution about these feelings.  What does seem common is for the person to "reach" for the safest/easiest/most practiced way to deal with these emotions to alleviates the bad feelings.  As was mentioned it's a way to control and mitigate bad/stressful feelings.  Is it appropriate? No. Is it hurtful? Yeah.

As far as her not practicing what she preaches, one of the criteria of the disorder is an unstable sense of self (identity) and lack of self direction.  This means that internal barometer to what is right is constantly fluctuating to accommodate feelings.  What feels right one day, could not feel right the next.   Hence her ability to change on this.

What happens instead to protect oneself is it gets projected out, rationalized and sometimes minimized.  As in when she tells you it's inappropriate that you have her sister as your Facebook friend (I'm still trying to figure out how facebook seems to be able to cause such horrendous outcomes but thats another topic).  Sounds like she spent a little bit of time trying to convince you of this and it's reasonableness or justification.  When we, because I know this personally too, have poor boundaries especially emotional boundaries we can be susceptible to what is known as "introjection".  This is where we take on the projections or start to believe them or buy into them.  This is a hard situation to be in especially if we value someone and are vulnerable or have weak boundaries.

This interplay between the two - her impulsive need to project to cope with stressors and us introjecting lead to what is commonly referred to as gaslighting.  Gaslighting as a colloquial term often has sinister or maleficent intent.  The term is often used to describe an interplay between several psychological things happening in concert, it's much simpler to use the term gaslighting, the social term people know, then to spell out all the clinical terms. 

When someone lies and manipulates for personal gain in a calculating way, using projection and relying on another's introjection intentionally, as the more commonly referenced intent of the term gaslighting (and the movie the term was coined off of) it is usually associated with more antisocial behaviors, some narcissistic behavior etc.  Now this isn't to say a person can't have BPD with antisocial traits, etc.  They can and some do. 

Normally when someone has untreated BPD or BPD traits they have difficulty regulating emotions.  So fears and anxieties rule.  I'm guessing that the whole exchange with your girlfriend triggered some "real to her" anxiety.  There will also be very poor coping skills to handle these emotions and often employed impulsively without reflecting upon how others might feel or interpret these actions.  Unfortunately, impaired empathy isn't uncommon either.

Dave, it really sucks to be on the receiving end of this stuff.  It's confusing.  So much of it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and to make sense of it takes a lot of emotional strain.  It's contradictory that a person that cares for you acts in direct opposition to that-if anything this is one thing I think most of us have struggled wrapping our heads around.  I understand the quest for answers too.  In that quest spend a little time just thinking about you and doing things that refocus back on you (make you feel good) too because you are important. 

I wish it was as easy as explaining why the things happen so the loss doesn't feel as bad.  I know it's a poor substitute.  Sometimes the easiest thing is grieve, on the not so bad days get a little bit of understanding of the why's and hopefully learn a few things for the future.

 

[Dave44]

Dave I'm so sorry you spent Christmas like that.  That's awful.  

Sometimes to try and figure out why a person that struggles with this disorder does what they do can be really exhausting.  I look back at some of the really inappropriate things and what I put up with and I just shake my head.

It's probably a good thing to talk a little about the disorder, the why's, and how it manifests in real time.  Like many others here mentioned and experienced, we can notice some strange thinking in situations and emotional immature ways things were handled.  All of what I've written below is from personal reading, interpretation, and therapy - it's my understanding of this psychological rabbit hole.

You pointed out how she was hypersensitive to her sister and you being facebook friends and then went on to do the opposite of what she preached.  I'd guess this has quite a bit to do with her perceptions and that if this happened she felt there was a real threat to herself here.  Not in the real-reality sense, but that her perceptions/feelings were true.  

It could be the intimacy trigger - you getting too close.  It could be that if you know her sister you would have found out more things about her that painted her in not so favorable light so she wanted to compartmentalize you two - rejection fears.  It could be she was worried that you would like her sister more than her - abandonment/rejection fears.  I know these sound strange, but on a serious note I've been on the receiving end of these fears however irrational they seem.  

But, it's a rare day if a person has these poor coping skills for them to admit this or to have an adult conversation/resolution about these feelings.  What does seem common is for the person to "reach" for the safest/easiest/most practiced way to deal with these emotions to alleviates the bad feelings.  As was mentioned it's a way to control and mitigate bad/stressful feelings.  Is it appropriate? No. Is it hurtful? Yeah.

As far as her not practicing what she preaches, one of the criteria of the disorder is an unstable sense of self (identity) and lack of self direction.  This means that internal barometer to what is right is constantly fluctuating to accommodate feelings.  What feels right one day, could not feel right the next.   Hence her ability to change on this.

What happens instead to protect oneself is it gets projected out, rationalized and sometimes minimized.  As in when she tells you it's inappropriate that you have her sister as your Facebook friend (I'm still trying to figure out how facebook seems to be able to cause such horrendous outcomes but thats another topic).  Sounds like she spent a little bit of time trying to convince you of this and it's reasonableness or justification.  When we, because I know this personally too, have poor boundaries especially emotional boundaries we can be susceptible to what is known as "introjection".  This is where we take on the projections or start to believe them or buy into them.  This is a hard situation to be in especially if we value someone and are vulnerable or have weak boundaries.

This interplay between the two - her impulsive need to project to cope with stressors and us introjecting lead to what is commonly referred to as gaslighting.  Gaslighting as a colloquial term often has sinister or maleficent intent.  The term is often used to describe an interplay between several psychological things happening in concert, it's much simpler to use the term gaslighting, the social term people know, then to spell out all the clinical terms.  

When someone lies and manipulates for personal gain in a calculating way, using projection and relying on another's introjection intentionally, as the more commonly referenced intent of the term gaslighting (and the movie the term was coined off of) it is usually associated with more antisocial behaviors, some narcissistic behavior etc.  Now this isn't to say a person can't have BPD with antisocial traits, etc.  They can and some do.  

Normally when someone has untreated BPD or BPD traits they have difficulty regulating emotions.  So fears and anxieties rule.  I'm guessing that the whole exchange with your girlfriend triggered some "real to her" anxiety.  There will also be very poor coping skills to handle these emotions and often employed impulsively without reflecting upon how others might feel or interpret these actions.  Unfortunately, impaired empathy isn't uncommon either.

Dave, it really sucks to be on the receiving end of this stuff.  It's confusing.  So much of it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and to make sense of it takes a lot of emotional strain.  It's contradictory that a person that cares for you acts in direct opposition to that-if anything this is one thing I think most of us have struggled wrapping our heads around.  I understand the quest for answers too.  In that quest spend a little time just thinking about you and doing things that refocus back on you (make you feel good) too because you are important.  

I wish it was as easy as explaining why the things happen so the loss doesn't feel as bad.  I know it's a poor substitute.  Sometimes the easiest thing is grieve, on the not so bad days get a little bit of understanding of the why's and hopefully learn a few things for the future.

GM, Thank you so much for taking the time to respond in such detail.

Introjecion -- very interesting. I have never heard that term before but that is EXACTLY what started to happen. I actually started believing her reasoning as redicules as it started to become. Anything to keep her happy and keep her with me. The fact that immediately after she dumped me she blocked me on FB and added her sisters boyfriend didnt hurt me. I could have really cared less if she added him while we were together. I was confused about it no doubt as she so adomently explained how inappropriate it would have been for me to have HER sister on mine only a month previous. What hurt was that only two days after ending it she had made that post on her wall about him coming for Christmas dinner. Man, that hurt in more ways than one. How on earth could she be thinking about and be excited for Christmas diner after just loosing her "soulmate"? The man she was calling "the one" less than 48 hours previous? Here I am barely able to function and that's where her head space is at? Unbelievable.

I'm also really learning a lot about projection itself. For some reason I always thought projection was only done out of anger in times of stress during arguments. I didn't realize that they could project their fears onto you. More importantly fears of stuff they very well do themselves! For example, in my case the situation detailed in this thread. Also how for some reason it was ok for guys to be randomly contacting her. Like she commonly said "I can't control when guys contact me?". Now to her defence she wouldn't respond to them nor hide it from me but at the same time she certainly wasn't telling them to stop or saying anything like "hey "John" not to be rude but I am in a relationship" etc etc. Matter of fact I remember one time a guy straight up asked her out for coffee on her FB page! I saw it 2 days after the fact and noticed that she didn't even respond? It wasn't until I said something and questioned why she didn't even respond that she immediately went on and responded with a "I'm sorry I have a boyfriend who i completely adore and I don't think that would be appropriate". As mentioned before I had the luxury of speaking with a couple of her ex's and I was quite stunned to find out that all the things she was so "scared" of me doing were things she did with all of them! Anything from inappropriate conversations with men on FB, text or email... .  right up to cheating itself. It was then when I started to think back and started to make sense of why she was SO paranoid about me cheating on her. At the time I just couldn't make an sense of it? Matter of fact, I felt sorry for her as she said it the fear stemmed from being cheated on herself. Now I'm realizing all these over the top fears were projection of things she herself was notorious for doing. I find that whole scenario quite interesting actually.

It is good to reflect and dissect some of her behaviours as it does make things easier for me. All in all though like you said I can't get to carried away with it and have to try to remain focused on me. I guess by me questioning all these things here I'm hoping for a "oh yes BPD for sure!" type response. As if getting confirmation of it will make everything ok. During the end she did SUCH a good job of convincing me that it was ME that had all the problems and it was ME that was messed up. It wasn't until I found this site that I started realizing, hey I might not be messed up. Plus talking with a few of her ex's was a real eye opener. It's been a journey though - its amazing how convincing and brain washing these people can be.  

In the end I just fear that at her age of 37 surely she has to make a change soon. At some point she has to realize that she can't go on like this. I fear that the next guy she's with wont "trigger" her as much. Or maybe that I've "missed the boat" by a couple years and she'll be all better or the symptoms will have at least subsided with age. Unlikely I know, however still a fear.

[MammaMia]

Dave

Greenmango has done a great job of explaining how BPD affects relationships.  There is probably little you could have done to change the outcome.  People with this illness live in the moment... .  they can't see life in the future.  The new guy (if he exists) will undoubtedly receive the same treatment.  It is just a matter of time, and it is all about her sense of fear, rejection, and abandonment, just as Greenmango said. 

I worry deeply for her children.  I pray she is a good mother despite her inability to sustain relationships with others.  Constant chaos has to have an impact on them.

Another worry is that these people often recycle.  Have you thought about what you would do if she should suddenly want to come back?  Think very carefully about this.

[GreenMango]

Dave its reasonable to be worried for her.  It's also not uncommon to wonder if we missed the boat or they will be better for the next person.  Most of the when someone who struggles with this disorder when we hear of remitting symptoms or lessening with age it usually happens with someone who's committed to a therapy regiment like dbt, or its the more severe cases where self harming, suicide attempts, drug addictions, etc are severe enough to trigger treatment of some kind.  These more extreme manifestations can lessen.  If the person is subclinical-what people refer to as high functioning- these social patterns, personality characteristics, coping skills can extend into adulthood and old age.  They arent really destructive enough to signal to others and themself that there is a problem.  The person develops a reputation as difficult or high maintenance.  So the fears, or faulty schemas/script, gets relived over and over.

If she has BPD its a pervasive pattern.  The label refers to pathological because the behavior is on repeat without any interventions.  It extends to multiple areas of a persons life in a disruptive way, usually in interpersonal relationships.  When dealing with the person in my life I originally thought it was just with me, but as time wore on it extended to work, family, friend relationships.

You might read around around here is this type of relationship is like attracting two complimentary people-like a key in a lock.  Some call it the perfect storm.  When we talk about boundaries around here its the idea of value based boundaries.  We value something, like honesty for example, as such we don't lie to others and knowing this value we are able to know when someone doesn't have the same value. 

When we are in a relationship like this at point or another it is usually marked by mutually poor boundaries and mutually unreasonable expectations.  The division between two peoples emotions and coping skills gets blurred and we are bouncing off and reacting impulsively feeding off eachother, often times negatively.  It feeds on itself getting worse.  It takes a very aware person to practice balance in a relationship of this kind.  The staying board promotes these skills - yet it doesn't cure the other person.  It can stabilize the relationship enough to make it worth it for the person.

The poor boundaries in a person with this disorder- this is the "self" component of the disorder in identity and self direction-means that there will often be disorganized attachment.  Inappropriate closeness too soon.  Then since its am attachment disorder the inability to cope with intimacy starts the anxiety and fears which creates a push and a quick detachment.  All this is emotional reactive and automatic.  Its hurts for partners expecting constancy.  It's the nature of being in a relationship with someone who struggles with BPD.  It can be a really rough ride and a very unstable relationship.

Projection can both ways.  It's not always a negative thing that gets projected out.  It can be us projecting the "person of our dreams" desires.  It can be our partner projectioning the same, or it can be projections of the unsettling emotions like anger or fear.  It's not calculating usually, its a poor coping skill that is set on auto pilot for diffcult times. 

When someone struggles with this disorder its a combination of faulty thinking, mood, and behavior.  It's can be very unbelieveable to realize a person that struggles with this doesn't realize how different the reactions are or how they feel.  One of the 10 Beliefs is number 2 they feel the same way do-if the person has BPD they don't.  It is very different in how the person feels at any given time.

Mammamia brings up a very good point.  One way to reality check or look at the relationship is to ask yourself if you could have lived in this cycle with her she is now behaving how she behaves now?  Not the hopeful if they get better one day.

[GustheDog]

In the end I just fear that at her age of 37 surely she has to make a change soon. At some point she has to realize that she can't go on like this. I fear that the next guy she's with wont "trigger" her as much. Or maybe that I've "missed the boat" by a couple years and she'll be all better or the symptoms will have at least subsided with age. Unlikely I know, however still a fear.

I know this is your fear, but consider: Even in the extremely unlikely event that that she does change her ways, heal, and result in you having missed the boat, as it were, she still treated you deplorably.  Whether or not she becomes a better person in the future does not alter the fact that she abused you in severely traumatizing ways.

Also, an easy way of understanding the double standards and paranoia re FB, etc., is to realize that she most likely believes that other people think and behave the way she does.  The fact that she could not trust you reflects the fact that she doesn't (and wouldn't, if she was in your shoes) trust herself.  On some level - probably not conscious - she recognizes that she is not trustworthy, and so she assumes that you are not either.

[GreenMango]

Salient point-its very diffucult to have a relationship without it. 

Dave if trust is something you value then its important at least for coming to terms with this relationship to acknowledge that her behavior and the way she thinks about trust as a real problem. 

The trust issue, or lack of it, has ended many relationships. 

[healingmyheart]

Green Mango,

Why do they displace or transfer their shortcomings unto us.  In my case my husband was jealous and accused me of having affairs when he was the one having the affairs.

I don't understand why they do that.  Is it denial on their part or to alleviate pain or acceptance?  It's just so weird. 

[GreenMango]

It's very confusing to be accused of the very things another person is doing. 

- Shame - this is a particularly difficult feelings for even the most balanced person to handle.  In a person who struggles emotionally anyways this feeling can be cascade like triggering other behaviors like denial or projection.

- Fear - so denial to avoid rejection

- Projection - the assumption that everyone works like them, thinks like them, etc.  It's pretty hard to convince a person who thinks this that other people don't think like them.

I think it could many things.  What I have experienced is confronting a person on these denials, if they have BPD, rarely goes well.  It can be ego defeating and emotionally destabilizing for the other person setting into motion other impulsive, maladaptive behavior--relationship destroying behavior.

When someone has spent a lifetime relying, using and developing these types of coping skills in order to "protect" themselves from real or perceived threats, it's innate and can be an entrenched pattern of seeing and dealing with the world.  No amount love can change this faulty thinking pattern - this is can be a faulty thinking pattern of our own - we can love it out of them or prove to them our love is special. 

It takes a person with BPD relearning coping skills and intense therapy to address these.  The partner is too triggering for the person.  The only real thing we can do is develop and mature our own emotional coping skills, boundaries, and communication techniques and provide a healthy, loving environment.  Beyond that the other person has to want to deal with them self, and sometimes that is too much, too big or too overwhelming of a task.  And if it's working for them immediately and their is little to lose why would a person change it - it works, its acceptable to their relationships-there's little reason to change.

It doesn't make it any easier for those of us around them though.  These types of relationships are notoriously difficult to manage.  There is a little factoid that runs on the banners around here about the prevalence of hard to manage/high conflict couples in couples counseling and the prevalence of any sub-clinical pd traits, not even full clinical diagnosis, as being a major factor for unrest in marriages.  These issues go beyond the run of the mill - "we don't know how to communicate with each other" - type of problems.

[Dave44]

Dave

Greenmango has done a great job of explaining how BPD affects relationships.  There is probably little you could have done to change the outcome.  People with this illness live in the moment... .  they can't see life in the future.  The new guy (if he exists) will undoubtedly receive the same treatment.  It is just a matter of time, and it is all about her sense of fear, rejection, and abandonment, just as Greenmango said. 

I worry deeply for her children.  I pray she is a good mother despite her inability to sustain relationships with others.  Constant chaos has to have an impact on them.

Another worry is that these people often recycle.  Have you thought about what you would do if she should suddenly want to come back?  Think very carefully about this.

Regarding her as a mother. Yes I would say she was a good mother in the sense that there was never any abuse of any kind, not even yelling. Her kids seemed to be her everything. However at the same time I don't see how having guys CONSTANTLY coming in and out of their life can be healthy? After two weeks of dating her, her oldest daughter (8) was tellinf her friends that she was going to have a new dad. At the time I was a little shocked to say the least. Looking back knowing what I know now, it all makes sense. Poor girl. Just another guy that's come in and out of her life. I never even got to say goodbye to them. I often wonder what they think happened to me? Also, I noticed there was absolutely no disciplin in the house what-so-ever... .  none. The kids seemed to call all the shots.   

As for a recycle attempt. I had to chuckle when I read that. I hope that doesn't offend you as I'm sure you just don't know all the details but I can assure you that there is no chance in HELL that I will ever hear from that woman again. I'd honestly put any amount of money on it. She will never contact me again... .  EVER. I'm starting to be ok with that.


GM,

You said one thing that really made a lot of things clear to me. You said that these people think everyone thinks like them. When you put it that way it all makes sense! No wonder they're so scared of everything, they think they're everyone else is the same!

[MammaMia]

Dave

You said you are starting to be ok with your ex NOT coming back?  That is HUGE!

You are making progress, my friend. 

[Dave44]

There is probably little you could have done to change the outcome.  People with this illness live in the moment... .  they can't see life in the future. 

MammaMia,

That comment really struck home for me. I constantly saw examples of her inability or even desire to see or plan for anything in the future. Matter of fact all the problems that arose in the relationship (although we never did "fight" came as a result of me bringing reality into the picture. Weather it be finacies, disciplin or chore ideas for the kids... .  any sort of planning in general just didn't seem to go over very well.

We had made a plan to save for a house but she had SUCH a hard time with sticking to this very simple budget/plan. We had both decided to save "X" amount of dollars a month. She was saving my half of the rent that I was giving her for living there. However it didn't take long (the first month) for her to make the comment, "I'm no farther ahead now then I was before you moved in. The money that you're giving me to live here is just going into savings so essentially it's like I'm still living on my own. It's like you're just a roommate." I tried to explain to her that we decided to do this for a year to get into the housing market. It's short term pain for long term gain. We stick it out for 12 months and we're home owners! She just could not seem to comprehend that SIMPLE concept and several times actually made the comment, "why don't we just live for the moment? Who knows what's going to happen in the future, lets just live for now". I couldn't understand why I at 29 was trying to explain this to her at 37? I mean if anything... .  shouldn't it of been the other way around? Not to mention what I was saving was more than double the amount that she was as I made more money. Of course this was never acknowledged - it was all about what she was saving. 

It was then when I started to realize a future with this women was not going to be quite like I had envisioned. It also started to become clear why she had racked up $72,000.00 in debt 3 years prior resulting in having to file for bankruptcy without a single thing to show for it... .  

[ScotisGone74]

glad to see you are doing better Dave.  I think this is one of the things not discussed often on here, that BPD's can not think forward/backward in concrete terms, how can they when their views of both constantly change?   This is why they are only really able to focus on the present, for them tommorrow may never come and the real yesterday is too painful to think about.  I looked at houses with my ex pwBPD and of course all she wanted to do was look at mansions, I tried to explain things to her even though we both made decent money, its difficult for someone with BPD to buy anything that is just about average, they have to get something that gets them attention, something that they feel is better than anyone else's, or something they can brag about, regardless of what they can really afford or whats in their budget. 

[MammaMia]

Dave

People with BPD have also stopped growing emotionally at the time their disorder began.  Her chronological age may be 37 but her emotional age may be 14.  They do not mature mentally like normal people.  This may explain some of her inability to deal with today's reality as an adult... .  she can't.

You did not have a partner... .  mentally and emotionally, you had a daughter.

You sound better today.  Good job!

[Vegasskydiver]

Dave

People with BPD have also stopped growing emotionally at the time their disorder began.  Her chronological age may be 37 but her emotional age may be 14.  They do not mature mentally like normal people.  This may explain some of her inability to deal with today's reality as an adult... .  she can't.

You did not have a partner... .  mentally and emotionally, you had a daughter.

You sound better today.  Good job!

What about high functioning pwBPD?  My ex boyfriend reired as highly decorated Army first Sergeant, then held a job as an Army contractor in Iraq for several years making $$$$... .  then he met et and decided to move to Las vegas, where he purchased a home.  He did blow through a lot of money buying a Corvette, four Harleys', and SUV, Boat and many other toys but always seemed to have plenty of money and was highly responsible, OCD.  He did change his views from day to day... .  one minute he wanted to marry me, the next he never wanted to be married again, and it would change daily... .  so exhausting when you are in a committed relationship.  At the time I knew nothing about BPD.

[Dave44]

Dave

People with BPD have also stopped growing emotionally at the time their disorder began.  Her chronological age may be 37 but her emotional age may be 14.  They do not mature mentally like normal people.  This may explain some of her inability to deal with today's reality as an adult... .  she can't.

You did not have a partner... .  mentally and emotionally, you had a daughter.

You sound better today.  Good job!

Hi MammaMia,

Yes I can definitely see how that could play into the way she deals with things. I do find it odd though in the sense that in some aspects of their life they seem to function fine but in other aspects not so much. I could see this child like mindset when it came to her social skills and decision making capabilities  - not very good. She would often say weird things when talking to someone that would sometimes make me feel a bit embarrassed and leave me thinking huh? She also would sometimes turn to her 8 year old daughter for advice on a decision that needed to be made. I remmebr one time her daughter saying "I dont know? Your the mom?". She also didn't have one single girlfriend... .  not one. Her only friends were men... .  hmmm

What I can't relate the child like mindset to though is examples like my very first post here on the site. Have you read that? To me that's just down right evil, not child like. I still have not recived that item back or heard from her... .