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Author Topic: Be honest... Do you wish your pwBPD well?  (Read 3245 times)
Hiloguy
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« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2013, 11:37:35 AM »

Hi all.

I know this sounds mean but I wish exBPDgf bad, until she hits rock bottom she will never seek help. When things are going remotely good for her she is in complete denial on the subject. So, short-term I hope she hits bottom but in the long-run I wish her well.
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Vegasskydiver
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« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2013, 11:48:37 AM »

Hi all.

I know this sounds mean but I wish exBPDgf bad, until she hits rock bottom she will never seek help. When things are going remotely good for her she is in complete denial on the subject. So, short-term I hope she hits bottom but in the long-run I wish her well.

I can completely relate to that stement.  I want my exBPDbf to hit rock bottom and have a life changing moment that will force him to seek help in the form of therapy.  I wish that his eyes would open wide so that he can see the pain that he has inflicted on so many women.  I honestly do not belive that he is capable of that but I wish... .  
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expos
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« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2013, 11:56:01 AM »

Roger, 

You should understand that even if she does get a little better, it is because you left her, which is the act that forced her to face her demons in the first place.

without you leaving, it wauld still be the same for you.

If she does better with someone else, it could be for several reasons all related to you allowing the relationship to end.

1. The relationship is new ( just like yours was in the beginning)

2. she is trying harder because now she knows that people have boundaries (because you left)

3. The new guy is a total pin cushion and enjoys being manipulated

Either way, you should always understand that you made a thoughtful decision to get out and it was the only way to end the BS. 

This x1000.  I am relating to this.  It's too bad that we are then painted black and never get the credit for indirectly fixing their lives.  But, it's really only a matter of time before the devaulation begins for the next person.  Reading through these forums, I have not seen a single success story of a BPD being a functional or positive contributor to a relationship. 
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jaird
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« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2013, 11:57:19 AM »

A lot of good thoughts and posts here. I would thank quite a few of you by name, but I'm sure I would forget one or two of you.

Two thoughts:

1. I really admire those who are totally detached and don't care anymore.

2. I am troubled that my ex is now at least reading about BPD and trying to fix herself. I mean I am glad that she is doing that, but I feel she is doing it because she knows how much her thought process destroyed our relationship. It is like she is doing it in hindsight, instead of when I asked her to do it 18 months ago. I feel like she is working on herself so she will do better in her next relationship. So my question to myself is, why didn't she work on herself, as I did, for OUR relationship?

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jaird
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« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2013, 12:00:39 PM »

Roger,  

You should understand that even if she does get a little better, it is because you left her, which is the act that forced her to face her demons in the first place.

without you leaving, it wauld still be the same for you.

If she does better with someone else, it could be for several reasons all related to you allowing the relationship to end.

1. The relationship is new ( just like yours was in the beginning)

2. she is trying harder because now she knows that people have boundaries (because you left)

3. The new guy is a total pin cushion and enjoys being manipulated

Either way, you should always understand that you made a thoughtful decision to get out and it was the only way to end the BS.  

This x1000.  I am relating to this.  It's too bad that we are then painted black and never get the credit for indirectly fixing their lives.  But, it's really only a matter of time before the devaulation begins for the next person.  Reading through these forums, I have not seen a single success story of a BPD being a functional or positive contributor to a relationship.  

They contribute positively only for a short period of time.
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slimmiller
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« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2013, 01:21:49 PM »

Hi all.

I know this sounds mean but I wish exBPDgf bad, until she hits rock bottom she will never seek help. When things are going remotely good for her she is in complete denial on the subject. So, short-term I hope she hits bottom but in the long-run I wish her well.

I can completely relate to that stement.  I want my exBPDbf to hit rock bottom and have a life changing moment that will force him to seek help in the form of therapy.  I wish that his eyes would open wide so that he can see the pain that he has inflicted on so many women.  I honestly do not belive that he is capable of that but I wish... .  

I too wish that but truth is, many of them when they do, go by the of how Mindy Mcreedy did. How many of us nons even could live with ourselves if we became consciously aware of the damage done to others emotionally as they do? I could not and dont think one with BPD will ever allow themselves to truly see objectively what hurt they heap on others so the likelyhood of them ever seeing it is pretty slim
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struggli
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« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2013, 01:32:01 PM »

I often have violent thoughts when I imagine seeing her again.  So, I reckon I'm pretty bitter and not very detached.
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kahnighit

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« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2013, 02:54:58 PM »

2. I am troubled that my ex is now at least reading about BPD and trying to fix herself. I mean I am glad that she is doing that, but I feel she is doing it because she knows how much her thought process destroyed our relationship. It is like she is doing it in hindsight, instead of when I asked her to do it 18 months ago. I feel like she is working on herself so she will do better in her next relationship. So my question to myself is, why didn't she work on herself, as I did, for OUR relationship?

As a general rule people will not change maladaptive behaviors until they experience enough loss at the hands of it.  Gamblers, addicts, the disordered.  The loss usually has to be of a monumental scale as well occurring in a singular moment.  Addicts generally call this their moment of clarity and, more often than not, it was usually a moment where they thought their life was in immediate danger.  Short of that the hitting of "rock bottom" comes after considerable time and accrued losses whereby they have no alternative as they look back over the years but to see the pattern of behavior and the destruction it has left. 

Perhaps an oversimplification but why didn't she work on herself while/for your relationship?  Cause she still had it.  So long as you're in it you are enabling her to continue doing what she's doing. 
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« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2013, 03:03:48 PM »

My exH (upwBPD) just told our kids he's getting married in a couple of months (6 months after starting relationship and 7 months after leaving me for the umpteenth time).

He knows from an earlier message that I am struggling to forgive his lack of respect when he left but I did text him to say he didn't need to tell me about his news because the kids had and that I did hope that he was now happy because then the rest of us could have healthier lives.

Actually, at the time I was sincere but reading what I've just typed, I think it was a bit passive-agressive!  Implying that I am better off without him (though that is a fact).

Yes, part of me wants it to crash because of the need to know that he can't just become whole and healthy overnight after years of rollercoaster with me but overall I don't want him to be in pain and I don't want to be in pain either.  I need to concentrate on why I enabled for so long to my own detriment.
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« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2013, 03:06:27 PM »

You should understand that even if she does get a little better, it is because you left her, which is the act that forced her to face her demons in the first place.

without you leaving, it wauld still be the same for you.

If she does better with someone else, it could be for several reasons all related to you allowing the relationship to end.

1. The relationship is new ( just like yours was in the beginning)

2. she is trying harder because now she knows that people have boundaries (because you left)

3. The new guy is a total pin cushion and enjoys being manipulated

Either way, you should always understand that you made a thoughtful decision to get out and it was the only way to end the BS. 

Thanks for this. I agree completely, intellectually. I think #1 is the biggest factor, just now. I saw all of her previous friendships go through the same honeymoon phase that I did. At first, she mirrors your values so you think she is the best friend, most dedicated worker, and most ethically sensitive person you have ever met. But eventually she invests less time and less energy and begins to make excuses ("I was sick, my car broke down, I had a death in the family, I was diagnosed with cancer,... . ". At first you bend over backwards to help her through her hardships, but at some point you start to suspect that there is no wolf. You say "no" to her and suddenly find yourself painted black. She cuts herself loose from you and finds another best friend, perfect job, or soul mate. For her family (and formerly me, as well), she really can't cut them loose, so she "gives them another chance" and everyone thinks things are "back to normal". Lather, rinse, repeat.
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« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2013, 06:41:10 PM »

I battle with this thought alot. The more I see her for her issues, I just wished that she was 'normal' for my kids' sake. She did so much screwed up things to herself, me and our family; it is hard to wish her anything good or bad. I think I am to the point that I don't care either way what happens to her.
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grad
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« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2013, 06:49:11 PM »

Me too. She isn't my problem anymore, and I haven't bumped into her for a year. I hope I never bump into her again, or see her, or know anything about her. She consumed my life for years, but I'm over it, finally, and I don't care anymore. Sure, I don't wish her any bad things, just as I don't wish anyone bad things. But I don't waste my time wishing her well or thinking about her much anymore. It feels so good to be free.

I don't want to sound cynical but if you're still reading these forums perhaps you're not as over it as you portray?
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grad
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« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2013, 06:52:15 PM »

I wish her well in that I want her to seek counseling and resolve her childhood issues.  She's wasting her life away and it makes me sad.  She needs to stop burdening herself with her family that depends on her for financial assistance.  I truly feel sorry for this individual more than anyone I've ever met and she's is one of the few I've been close to who could and did have hurt me emotionally--something I've needed for a long time because I don't believe you can love fully until you've had your heart broken.
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findingmyselfagain
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« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2013, 06:52:59 PM »

I do, even though I'm very, very angry with how she chose to end the r/s. No counseling. Just brushed me out of her and her child and her family's life on a dime. Many of our experiences here are similar. Mine ended right after an upswing, a very peaceful and happy time peaking at the wedding shower. I see her more clearly now as a very, very insecure person who experiences life in a very different way than most of us do. Until she's able to recognize her unhealthy coping methods and take responsibility for them, then she'll keep repeating the pattern. I do wish her well, and hope one day she finds peace and may see me in a more positive light. I know the problem isn't me, except for me "taking a chance" on someone with a very poor relationship history.
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willy45
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« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2013, 07:49:06 PM »

Honestly?

No. I don't. Does this make me bitter? Probably. One day I won't care. But if you want honesty, I hope the next few relationships she has crash and burn. And I hope she can start to see that her behavior is abusive and dysfunctional and that she gets some help. I am so tired of hearing that all the relationship problems were my fault. That her blow-ups and temper tantrums and name calling and rages were all because of me. That the relationship falling apart was 100% my fault. I am sick of the blaming.

I guess I am still angry. Super angry.
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Vegasskydiver
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« Reply #45 on: March 24, 2013, 08:11:19 PM »

Honestly?

No. I don't. Does this make me bitter? Probably. One day I won't care. But if you want honesty, I hope the next few relationships she has crash and burn. And I hope she can start to see that her behavior is abusive and dysfunctional and that she gets some help. I am so tired of hearing that all the relationship problems were my fault. That her blow-ups and temper tantrums and name calling and rages were all because of me. That the relationship falling apart was 100% my fault. I am sick of the blaming.

I guess I am still angry. Super angry.

I guess that I am still very angry as well.  I was told that if I could be trusted that he wouldn't have to rage at me and call me names.  Funny thing is I am completely trust worthy... . I think the real issue was that he didn't trust himself.

It is sad, real sad becuase we both lose... . I htought that he was the one... . my "last first date" :'(
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paperlung
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« Reply #46 on: March 24, 2013, 08:15:28 PM »

I do want her to be happy because she has always struggled with depression, among countless of other issues. Although her choice to discard my help which see so desperately wanted for in favor of this new relationship which isn't going to go anywhere leaves me feeling disappointed because she made me believe she wanted to get better not only for herself, but for our relationship as well.
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Blessed0329
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« Reply #47 on: March 24, 2013, 08:51:30 PM »

Do I wish my pwBPD well? Yes and no. Mine is a married minister who returned to full time pastoring after wreaking havoc in my life for the second of the two years we worked together. He continued causing emotional disruption to me until I finally deleted him from FB 4 weeks ago. Not one time has he apologized to me, or even acknowledged responsibility for what he did to me. I was expected to be there when he needed me, and move aside when he needed me to do that, because he had all of this very important ministry work to do.

Quite honestly, and I know this is petty of me, I am happy to learn he is miserable, that he is failing in his church, that there are factions and infighting among staff and members, that the church growth is stagnant, and that he has alienated dozens of long term friends from the church community since he returned to pastoring. Serves him right to reap what he sowed.

He has one mentor who has tried to be there for him through everything, and this man is one of the few who seems to have the patience and genuine love to help see him through all of this. His adult son, who returned from military service in the Mideast, has been done with him for months now. His wife hangs in, I guess because she is supposed to. My pwBPD really needs a major breakthrough to be able to practice what he preaches, to be genuine and authentic. As of now, it looks like he has been exposed to quite a few people as a fake and a fraud, and the friends he has left are from a former church out of state. If he is going to remain a pastor, he needs serious therapeutic help. My hope is that he hits rock bottom and is then open to receiving that help.
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Clearmind
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« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2013, 09:28:23 PM »

Do I wish my ex well?

Yes I do!

We both brought our own level of dysfunction to the relationship. He is not 100% responsible. I don't blame him, I take responsibility for my part.

All that we judge in another person is our own self-judgment projected outwards onto them.

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Mike_confused
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« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2013, 10:31:54 AM »

Yes, I truly do wish her well.
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Mightyhammers
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« Reply #50 on: March 25, 2013, 10:47:45 AM »

I don’t necessarily want her to fail, just to realise one day that she lost the best partner she is ever going to have – will she? I very much doubt it
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sad but wiser
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« Reply #51 on: March 25, 2013, 12:34:05 PM »

rjh - The anger and pain passes.  Just being able to tell someone how angry you are is a relief.  Remember, ":)on't get mad at a cat for being a cat." (But don't let it scratch you, either.)

Paperlung - Very, very good.  Look how far you have come in such a short time. Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #52 on: March 25, 2013, 06:54:06 PM »

We both brought our own level of dysfunction to the relationship. He is not 100% responsible. I don't blame him, I take responsibility for my part.

All that we judge in another person is our own self-judgment projected outwards onto them.

I agree that I definitely had my part and made my mistakes in the relationship, and realizing them and owning them has helped me grow.

I disagree that what we judge in another person is our own self-judgement though, although it depends how you define judge.  Identifying traits, and her's were very different from mine, is not judging, judging is the second step.  I do wish her well, although it won't be because she met someone who fits better, there is no fitting with that, it would be because she had an epiphany because she was in pain, and goes and gets some help.  I hope that happens.
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Clearmind
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« Reply #53 on: March 25, 2013, 07:46:11 PM »

fromheeltoheal, you are welcome to disagree. And I am not pointing the finger at anyone in particular.

Would you agree you feel validated when you read posts that resonate with your own history with your BPD ex? I have seen it hundreds of times on the board.

Our Borderline partners blamed us to offload their painful feelings of inadequacy – this is projection. True!

If you read much of the posts and threads on the Leaving Board, they concentrate on the Borderline and what they did or didn’t do and how pained we are because of it – is this not the same thing? Is this not splitting our partners into all bad, is it not reminiscent of black and white thinking?

Projection is defined as “a defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own negative attributes by ascribing them to objects or persons in the outside world instead”. Venting without seeing our role is in fact projecting our own feelings of inadequacy, self-shame and blame onto the Borderline!

It helps us feel good for a while! We start feeling woeful again and ruminate about our ex's - we come back to the Leaving Board to post about it.

I’m not suggesting we are BPD, I’m suggesting we can have our own form of twisted thinking.

AUTHOR: Dr. Burns graduated magna cum laude from Amherst College, received his M.D. from Stanford University School of Medicine and completed his psychiatry residency at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. He has served as Acting Chief of Psychiatry at the Presbyterian / University of Pennsylvania Medical Center (1988) and Visiting Scholar at the Harvard Medical School (1998) and  is certified by the National Board of Psychiatry and Neurology

ARTICLE: Ten Forms of Twisted Thinking

By Dr. David Burns

Companion article with bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56200.0

From The Feeling Good Handbook (Plume Publishers, 1999)

How we often mislead ourselves... .

1. All-or-nothing thinking - You see things in black-or-white categories. If a situation falls short of perfect, you see it as a total failure. When a young woman on a diet ate a spoonful of ice cream, she told herself, "I've blown my diet completely." This thought upset her so much that she gobbled down an entire quart of ice cream.

2. Overgeneralization - You see a single negative event, such as a romantic rejection or a career reversal, as a never-ending pattern of defeat by using words such as "always" or "never" when you think about it. A depressed salesman became terribly upset when he noticed bird dung on the window of his car. He told himself, "Just my luck! Birds are always crapping on my car!"

3. Mental Filter - You pick out a single negative detail and dwell on it exclusively, so that your vision of reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that discolors a beaker of water. Example: You receive many positive comments about your presentation to a group of associates at work, but one of them says something mildly critical. You obsess about his reaction for days and ignore all the positive feedback.



4. Discounting the positive
- You reject positive experiences by insisting that they "don't count." If you do a good job, you may tell yourself that it wasn't good enough or that anyone could have done as well. Discounting the positives takes the joy out of life and makes you feel inadequate and unrewarded.

5. Jumping to conclusions - You interpret things negatively when there are no facts to support your conclusion.

Mind Reading : Without checking it out, you arbitrarily conclude that someone is reacting negatively to you.

Fortune-telling : You predict that things will turn out badly. Before a test you may tell yourself, "I'm really going to blow it. What if I flunk?" If you're depressed you may tell yourself, "I'll never get better."

6. Magnification - You exaggerate the importance of your problems and shortcomings, or you minimize the importance of your desirable qualities. This is also called the "binocular trick."

7. Emotional Reasoning - You assume that your negative emotions necessarily reflect the way things really are: "I feel terrified about going on airplanes. It must be very dangerous to fly." Or, "I feel guilty. I must be a rotten person." Or, "I feel angry. This proves that I'm being treated unfairly." Or, "I feel so inferior. This means I'm a second rate person." Or, "I feel hopeless. I must really be hopeless."

8. "Should" statements - You tell yourself that things should be the way you hoped or expected them to be. After playing a difficult piece on the piano, a gifted pianist told herself, "I shouldn't have made so many mistakes." This made her feel so disgusted that she quit practicing for several days. "Musts," "oughts" and "have tos" are similar offenders.

"Should statements" that are directed against yourself lead to guilt and frustration. Should statements that are directed against other people or the world in general, lead to anger and frustration: "He shouldn't be so stubborn and argumentative!"

Many people try to motivate themselves with shoulds and shouldn'ts, as if they were delinquents who had to be punished before they could be expected to do anything. "I shouldn't eat that doughnut." This usually doesn't work because all these shoulds and musts make you feel rebellious and you get the urge to do just the opposite. Dr. Albert Ellis has called this " must erbation." I call it the "shouldy" approach to life.

9. Labeling - Labeling is an extreme form of all-or-nothing thinking. Instead of saying "I made a mistake," you attach a negative label to yourself: "I'm a loser." You might also label yourself "a fool" or "a failure" or "a jerk." Labeling is quite irrational because you are not the same as what you do. Human beings exist, but "fools," "losers" and "jerks" do not. These labels are just useless abstractions that lead to anger, anxiety, frustration and low self-esteem.

You may also label others. When someone does something that rubs you the wrong way, you may tell yourself: "He's an S.O.B." Then you feel that the problem is with that person's "character" or "essence" instead of with their thinking or behavior. You see them as totally bad. This makes you feel hostile and hopeless about improving things and leaves very little room for constructive communication.

10. Personalization and Blame - Personalization comes when you hold yourself personally responsible for an event that isn't entirely under your control. When a woman received a note that her child was having difficulty in school, she told herself, "This shows what a bad mother I am," instead of trying to pinpoint the cause of the problem so that she could be helpful to her child. When another woman's husband beat her, she told herself, "If only I was better in bed, he wouldn't beat me." Personalization leads to guilt, shame and feelings of inadequacy.

Some people do the opposite. They blame other people or their circumstances for their problems, and they overlook ways they might be contributing to the problem: "The reason my marriage is so lousy is because my spouse is totally unreasonable." Blame usually doesn't work very well because other people will resent being scapegoated and they will just toss the blame right back in your lap. It's like the game of hot potato--no one wants to get stuck with it.

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tailspin
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« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2013, 08:23:07 PM »

Wishing someone well who has harmed us is the last phase of grieving and is accompanied by detachment and peace.  Perhaps you are not at this stage yet... . but your anger is serving a purpose... . so be true to who you are and what you're feeling right now.  Everything you feel matters and is important.

I also think wishing someone well is about us and what we need to do to move forward.  Most of us have not put our needs first in a long time and doing so is a real breakthrough.  Forgiveness isn't far behind.  To me, forgiveness is saying I'm not going to keep the pain in my heart any longer.  

I wish my expwBPD well.  By doing so, what I'm really doing, is setting myself free.  

tailspin
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« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2013, 08:28:47 PM »

Tailspin, you have worded things so very well, especially for those of us still trying to navigate through the grief process. As for what Clearmind states above regarding venting, I can't speak for anyone but myself, I have to say my posts often depend on the topic posed. This topic, which begins with the caveat "be honest," elicited quite a different response from me than other topics have. I wonder if this might not be true for others who posted here as well.
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« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2013, 09:13:22 PM »

Thank you clearmind, that helped.  Somehow I knew she was blaming and abusing me because she was feeling inadequate, but was so enmeshed in it at the time that I just got defensive.  And attempts at having a real, open conversation about what was going on with her were always fruitless, so it just went on and on.

But you're right, it does feel good to paint the BPD as all evil here, validating, and even more so when others chime in with similar experiences.  I've found it helpful to remember that it takes two to tango, water seeks it's own level, and I was in it too.  And also extremely helpful to learn that I was with a disordered individual, which has helped me separate my part and own it, and I was far from perfect, but of course if you asked her, it was all me.  Liberating.
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« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2013, 09:57:00 AM »

Oh god, I wish he could get well, because he had so much to offer. And we worked so well together and were great friends. The loss is incalculable.

Instead, I think he will suffer an early death.
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« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2013, 02:37:45 PM »

Chiming in on the blaming/projection/twisted thinking stuff... .

I'm actually quite pleased that I am almost exclusively on the Leaving Board and being harsher than usual as, following the end of previous recycles, I have tended to avoid 'Leaving' because I found it difficult to read some of the posts.  Mostly I would read the lessons on Staying in the hope that I'd find a way to communicate with him or read posts in Undecided because I felt Leaving was a stage of detachment beyond me.

This time, I have been angrier for longer and a lot less willing to forgive.  I know this will pass eventually but I hope not too soon because I really need to work through this stage properly this time.  I think I've cut it short before, started feeling a lot of compassion and taking a lot on myself thus making me vulnerable when he wanted to reconcile.

I sometimes hesitate before posting because I feel that in a few months, I'll look at my posts and be horrified that I was so nasty.  I know that some of what I write about ex may not be how I really feel deep down or how I will feel in the longer term but for now, I really need to acknowledge how abusive his behaviour has been (I actually deleted the word 'abusive' there and have had to go back and type it again!).

At some point, I hope to leave this board and be able to move to reading 'Personal Inventory' type posts.  I do wish ex well overall - we have children together - but at the moment one of the reasons I'm angry that he is moving on at rapid pace leaving a trail of destruction in his wake.
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« Reply #59 on: March 26, 2013, 02:44:25 PM »

Nope

Hope there's karma  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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