The Dreaded Call After 3 Weeks N/C - Help Advice Needed

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I am truly blown away by everyone's response and currently am too exhausted to reply because there is so much there. The amount of profound information that is at the heart of the truth in this all is something that I see within all these responses.

It is going to take me time I know to recover from this and that is partly why I am utterly weakened by it all as Hurt llama stated... .  his words ultimately weaken me and leave me in one way or the other as victim lover but without being the lover even. It is a type of cage for me and as Goldy put it while I am existing in this prison my ex is having his cake and eating it too.

I told my ex this expression last night and his response was"

"I'm not eating any cake because I'm not able to have you the way I want and need to. Don't you see I am suffering so how then can you say I'm having my cake and eating it too? Life is nothing but suffering but I cannot suffer you hurting me. I can suffer the world as long as your in it with me. I can't imagine my life without you. I NEED you".  L

He told me that I ruined him for other women for the rest of his life but that even if he had sex with someone way down the line it wouldn't mean anything because it is only me that he is invested in and needs. He actually feels he needs me in the way that he can have me to survive. Hence why being with me intimately does nothing but trigger him driving him to the extreme of all his fears, insecurities and agony which results literally in physical and emotional torture for him.

That is why having sex with a stranger or who ever poses no threat to him while I pose the greatest of all threats. He needs me but he can only have me in the way that that is safe while maintaining an intimacy without true commitment or sacrifice.

I asked him if we were in a room together do you think you would just keep to that friendship? He broke down crying and said if you were in a room I couldn't do anything but want all of you to myself and nor could I resist that with you but it torments me because you have too much power over me. He made reference to when he lost it and went psychotic hitting and strangling me out of a perceived jealousy that wasn't even real. That terrified him and since then loving me is his terror so he has to love me in the only safe way he knows how to without losing control.

It isn't that I don't get it because I get it all. The issue is that he will never give me what I truly need or want. He is incapable of rationally loving me with the normal healthy balance of dealing with the disappointments that come along the way of a relationship and learning as well as forgiving. For him one error is makes being able to love me final. That is to say that when I hurt him whether it is a real or perceived, that one action is enough to end 'us'.

These betrayals to him make having a relationship with me impossible and finalize any attempt.

As we can see there are double standards because he still wants me to be his intimately but not intimately. These are on his terms and serve to exclude him from having any real accountability, responsibility or sacrifice. That IS having your cake and eating it too.

Palla's observation with regards to his severe anxiety and Hurt llamas noting mine as well leads me to truly see the addiction patterns that we both established together. Interestingly he stated that if I did not pick up the phone this time around he didn't know what that would do to him. He alluded to the fact that it would send him spiraling out of control. The normal state for him which I noted is always having this feeling of being out of control therefore he has to do things specifically in order to desperately gain that control.

It appears his general state of being while interpreting everything spoken and unspoken, done or not done, answered or not answered has a flight or fight automatic response attached to it as Palla has so wisely stated. I see this in how he handles what he thinks is possibly rejection or anything. I knew that in his head he was taking note of how long it was that I did not respond. He was keeping track and knew I was home therefore he knew I was avoiding him. This literally sent him to the edge and finally by Monday he waited to see my you tube coming online which was the indicator that I was now home from my 12 hour shift. It was literally within 5 minutes of putting my you tube playlist on that he called me. Yes this was anxiety and almost near panic.

The first thing he asked me was "why don't you want to talk to me" Why did you say good-bye? Why did you not answer the emails? Why did you not pick up the phone when I called you because I knew you were up? Do you not feel the agony when we separate? Can you really live your life without me in it? And then repeat again "why don't you want to talk to me?". I think I was speechless for a few minutes and in that time that is all he kept asking me.

The 4 hour conversation was indeed not a conversation but some form of harm reduction or re-establishment of the perpetuated dysfunction that essentially keeps me in a very special little prison that only he gets to have access to, while he comfortably remains in the prison that is his safety and perpetuity as Palla has plainly stated. Yes he does not desire to change anything but rather just have his crying wing all to himself selfishly while under the guise of loving me and needing me. Yet too much of my love for too long a period drives him away overwhelming him and forcing him to feel oppressed and like Pall stated suffocated.

This was evident when at the end he was pulling away completely confused because I made him doubt the things that he thought he was seeing. I made him question his version of reality with enough evidence that the opposite truth was possibly the answer. The opposite truth being that he creates the distortion in order to not have to face the love he actually is feeling making him vulnerable and afraid. At the end of the 4 hours he was spent, more confused, more raw and utterly exhausted.

He said "can we start by building new bridges one at a time? Can we take this one step at a time?" At which point I could feel his fear resurfacing for the love I made plain for him to see. He said in leaving off "Let's be faithful then. I'm glad to hear your voice and I will call you very soon". At which point I alluded to the fact that the 'very soon' comment made me feel like I was being kept hanging again on his terms, to which he responded Wednesday night". End call. He had also reached his limit on all the symptoms I was explaining to him while making reference to his behaviors. I never mentioned

BPD or anything specific.

So now we return to him pulling away for a day or two only for him to boomerang back to me.

Does that not make me his captive? Round and round and round we go only we keep stopping at the very place we never started.

I'm really not okay with any of this and I am through this understanding how lethal all of this truly is, but I am not there yet. The already existing wounds that I have been striving desperately to heal from have re-opened and now I've returned to a bleeding mess.

I at this point could use some kryptonite but I understand that first I need to rest and try not to process under this exhaustion. I am not losing sight of the abuse factor and if anything this latest 'attack' is serving a purpose that is yet unfolding for my betterment even if I currently seem like I've landed right in the middle of his magical spell.

I do believe he means what he tells me. I do believe he loves me. I do believe he is truly trying in the only way he knows how to but I do also believe that this torture will never end unless I stop it because I know he won't. I know he will do everything to keep me bound to him because I am the balance and center that he is missing.

PatientandClear is completely correct in stating that he is offering to be still mine intimately without the commitment, responsibility, accountability or sacrifice. In effect just as you said it Patient he wants to be with me but without being with me. For him this works perfectly as it is not too close but not too far. It is safe and reassuring allowing him the option of being physically there when he feels strong enough to make that type of connection with me without any form of commitment or change.

So now that we have established that this is the perfect scenario for this underdeveloped child as Hurt llama stated, we can also establish that for me it is a non-existent relationship which essentially just serves him while I remain the bonded servant slave. There is no happiness here and there is nothing to foster, grow or nurture in a reciprocal sharing.  

I want to reflect on all the great wisdom and knowledge that has been shared in hopes of all of you helping me through this. There is so much there and in truth I am ever grateful to all of you.

I know I don't want this and like Laelle, Hurt, Maria, Pallav, Monty, Patient, Christina and delgato have said this isn't living and I deserve better. I know I have screwed up and might again a couple of more times until I finally just do what it is I have to do and that is finish the book. I think in many ways my relapse is more about visiting the cemetery for the last time. Something about this is giving me strength and confirmation of what it is that I already know and even though it appears to be the reverse I think just maybe I have to do this before I finally do truly say good-bye.  

Yet another contradiction but I can see how all of this is in a way necessary for me. It isn't what I wanted because I was getting through with the n/c but even so this is serving a purpose. I am overwhelmed by all your responses and deeply thankful to you all.

I know I have a long way to go but I have to believe that I'm getting there. Sorry for the long response considering how exhausted I am, it surprises me that I wrote this all.

Fromhealtoheal what you just posted was amazing and I needed to see it that way. Much to think about with everything everyone has written here.

[Surrender]

I am truly blown away by everyone's response and currently am too exhausted to reply because there is so much there. The amount of profound information that is at the heart of the truth in this all is something that I see within all these responses.

It is going to take me time I know to recover from this and that is partly why I am utterly weakened by it all as Hurt llama stated... .  his words ultimately weaken me and leave me in one way or the other as victim lover but without being the lover even. It is a type of cage for me and as Goldy put it while I am existing in this prison my ex is having his cake and eating it too.

I told my ex this expression last night and his response was"

"I'm not eating any cake because I'm not able to have you the way I want and need to. Don't you see I am suffering so how then can you say I'm having my cake and eating it too? Life is nothing but suffering but I cannot suffer you hurting me. I can suffer the world as long as your in it with me. I can't imagine my life without you. I NEED you".  L

He told me that I ruined him for other women for the rest of his life but that even if he had sex with someone way down the line it wouldn't mean anything because it is only me that he is invested in and needs. He actually feels he needs me in the way that he can have me to survive. Hence why being with me intimately does nothing but trigger him driving him to the extreme of all his fears, insecurities and agony which results literally in physical and emotional torture for him.

That is why having sex with a stranger or who ever poses no threat to him while I pose the greatest of all threats. He needs me but he can only have me in the way that that is safe while maintaining an intimacy without true commitment or sacrifice.

I asked him if we were in a room together do you think you would just keep to that friendship? He broke down crying and said if you were in a room I couldn't do anything but want all of you to myself and nor could I resist that with you but it torments me because you have too much power over me. He made reference to when he lost it and went psychotic hitting and strangling me out of a perceived jealousy that wasn't even real. That terrified him and since then loving me is his terror so he has to love me in the only safe way he knows how to without losing control.

It isn't that I don't get it because I get it all. The issue is that he will never give me what I truly need or want. He is incapable of rationally loving me with the normal healthy balance of dealing with the disappointments that come along the way of a relationship and learning as well as forgiving. For him one error is makes being able to love me final. That is to say that when I hurt him whether it is a real or perceived, that one action is enough to end 'us'.

These betrayals to him make having a relationship with me impossible and finalize any attempt.

As we can see there are double standards because he still wants me to be his intimately but not intimately. These are on his terms and serve to exclude him from having any real accountability, responsibility or sacrifice. That IS having your cake and eating it too.

Palla's observation with regards to his severe anxiety and Hurt llamas noting mine as well leads me to truly see the addiction patterns that we both established together. Interestingly he stated that if I did not pick up the phone this time around he didn't know what that would do to him. He alluded to the fact that it would send him spiraling out of control. The normal state for him which I noted is always having this feeling of being out of control therefore he has to do things specifically in order to desperately gain that control.

It appears his general state of being while interpreting everything spoken and unspoken, done or not done, answered or not answered has a flight or fight automatic response attached to it as Palla has so wisely stated. I see this in how he handles what he thinks is possibly rejection or anything. I knew that in his head he was taking note of how long it was that I did not respond. He was keeping track and knew I was home therefore he knew I was avoiding him. This literally sent him to the edge and finally by Monday he waited to see my you tube coming online which was the indicator that I was now home from my 12 hour shift. It was literally within 5 minutes of putting my you tube playlist on that he called me. Yes this was anxiety and almost near panic.

The first thing he asked me was "why don't you want to talk to me" Why did you say good-bye? Why did you not answer the emails? Why did you not pick up the phone when I called you because I knew you were up? Do you not feel the agony when we separate? Can you really live your life without me in it? And then repeat again "why don't you want to talk to me?". I think I was speechless for a few minutes and in that time that is all he kept asking me.

The 4 hour conversation was indeed not a conversation but some form of harm reduction or re-establishment of the perpetuated dysfunction that essentially keeps me in a very special little prison that only he gets to have access to, while he comfortably remains in the prison that is his safety and perpetuity as Palla has plainly stated. Yes he does not desire to change anything but rather just have his crying wing all to himself selfishly while under the guise of loving me and needing me. Yet too much of my love for too long a period drives him away overwhelming him and forcing him to feel oppressed and like Pall stated suffocated.

This was evident when at the end he was pulling away completely confused because I made him doubt the things that he thought he was seeing. I made him question his version of reality with enough evidence that the opposite truth was possibly the answer. The opposite truth being that he creates the distortion in order to not have to face the love he actually is feeling making him vulnerable and afraid. At the end of the 4 hours he was spent, more confused, more raw and utterly exhausted.

He said "can we start by building new bridges one at a time? Can we take this one step at a time?" At which point I could feel his fear resurfacing for the love I made plain for him to see. He said in leaving off "Let's be faithful then. I'm glad to hear your voice and I will call you very soon". At which point I alluded to the fact that the 'very soon' comment made me feel like I was being kept hanging again on his terms, to which he responded Wednesday night". End call. He had also reached his limit on all the symptoms I was explaining to him while making reference to his behaviors. I never mentioned

BPD or anything specific.

So now we return to him pulling away for a day or two only for him to boomerang back to me.

Does that not make me his captive? Round and round and round we go only we keep stopping at the very place we never started.

I'm really not okay with any of this and I am through this understanding how lethal all of this truly is, but I am not there yet. The already existing wounds that I have been striving desperately to heal from have re-opened and now I've returned to a bleeding mess.

I at this point could use some kryptonite but I understand that first I need to rest and try not to process under this exhaustion. I am not losing sight of the abuse factor and if anything this latest 'attack' is serving a purpose that is yet unfolding for my betterment even if I currently seem like I've landed right in the middle of his magical spell.

I do believe he means what he tells me. I do believe he loves me. I do believe he is truly trying in the only way he knows how to but I do also believe that this torture will never end unless I stop it because I know he won't. I know he will do everything to keep me bound to him because I am the balance and center that he is missing.

PatientandClear is completely correct in stating that he is offering to be still mine intimately without the commitment, responsibility, accountability or sacrifice. In effect just as you said it Patient he wants to be with me but without being with me. For him this works perfectly as it is not too close but not too far. It is safe and reassuring allowing him the option of being physically there when he feels strong enough to make that type of connection with me without any form of commitment or change.

So now that we have established that this is the perfect scenario for this underdeveloped child as Hurt llama stated, we can also establish that for me it is a non-existent relationship which essentially just serves him while I remain the bonded servant slave. There is no happiness here and there is nothing to foster, grow or nurture in a reciprocal sharing.  

I want to reflect on all the great wisdom and knowledge that has been shared in hopes of all of you helping me through this. There is so much there and in truth I am ever grateful to all of you.

I know I don't want this and like Laelle, Hurt, Maria, Pallav, Monty, Patient, Christina and delgato have said this isn't living and I deserve better. I know I have screwed up and might again a couple of more times until I finally just do what it is I have to do and that is finish the book. I think in many ways my relapse is more about visiting the cemetery for the last time. Something about this is giving me strength and confirmation of what it is that I already know and even though it appears to be the reverse I think just maybe I have to do this before I finally do truly say good-bye.  

Yet another contradiction but I can see how all of this is in a way necessary for me. It isn't what I wanted because I was getting through with the n/c but even so this is serving a purpose. I am overwhelmed by all your responses and deeply thankful to you all.

I know I have a long way to go but I have to believe that I'm getting there. Sorry for the long response considering how exhausted I am, it surprises me that I wrote this all.

Fromhealtoheal what you just posted was amazing and I needed to see it that way. Much to think about with everything everyone has written here.

[Hurt llama]

Hey CW,

Your process is your process and all the words I say or anyone else can only make just so much difference. It was the same for me and probably most of us.

It was suggested here for me to go NC before I was ready. I just couldn't do it and I didn't know exactly why.

As Green Mango posted recently as well as the thread I pm'd you says, there's more to no contact than disappearing, which is itself an aggressive act.

Ultimately and eventually it's an organic act.

I'll put down the sword down and not slay any dragons for a few hours. All this War is killing my back anyway... .

Just remember, you have the power with you at all times.

Just click your heels together... .  

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooM-RGUTe2E

[Hurt llama]

My CW friend  ... . you know how much I care and understand. And I know you want and need honest feedback.

I have trouble reading your post to be honest, I can only read a couple of his sentences at a time before reading something else and coming back to it. It sounds like brainwashing to me but I also sense your own wanting to 'have your cake' and eat it too.

I think you have known for a long time exactly what you had and you invested and played along (maybe) mitigating your 'risk' (as I did) by using your powers to play with his mind in a way he played with your mind. And around and around it goes.

So now that we have established that this is the perfect scenario for this underdeveloped child as Hurt llama stated, we can also establish that for me it is a non-existent relationship which essentially just serves him while I remain the bonded servant slave. There is no happiness here and there is nothing to foster, grow or nurture in a reciprocal sharing.    

CW, is it possible in some ways you got exactly what you wanted?

I've been in the exact place and well, maybe I will be again. For all my warrior words, I am vulnerable to even a child because I supplied that child powerful weapons of mass destruction.

Easier to invent a nuclear device than to disarm and dismantle.

[maria1]

Cryingwings

I did not know that he had physically hurt you. I know you are exhausted right now but i am concerned for your safety and I think that has to come first which is why I write this now. It changes my perspective about contact. Is there a local domestic violence organisation you can talk to?

Please don't see him under any circumstances. He sounds very unstable. I don't doubt he has very deep feelings for you and that you don't want to do anything to upset him. But I don't think contact with him is safe. He is stalking you.

Please keep posting here.

My ex never hurt me but I was scared when he completely dysregulated last year and I contacted the police who were great (UK). I changed my locks too. With hindsight maybe I over reacted but he was pretty crazy back then. He sent me pictures of his friend and texts of what his friend was offering to do to 'sort out' his ex wife. It was totally bizarre and made no sense.

Please put your safety first.

[Surrender]

Thank you Maria for your concern. That incident occurred one year ago and has traumatized him. To this day that is what makes him terrified to love me. I think the incident literally magnified his fears and emotional dis-regulatity. I'm fighting the bond which feels psychic and completely empathic just to try and break free from the destructive pain cycle of not really being able to be together but yet not being able to be apart. I need to find a way through this and I know I will just not today and maybe not tomorrow but hopefully soon. I can't cope with this anymore, its ripping me apart. Loving him feels like its killing me and I don't ever remember feeling this much pain ever especially with Love. I'm in agony when I'm with him and I am in agony when I'm not with him. This is too much. I can't handle loving him anymore.

I'm safe however because he lives very far from me.

Thank you for such kind concern.  

[Surrender]

The hopelessness of it all is likened to a tsunami that you have absolutely not power to thwart. According to the conversation we had last night you would think there was hope and a new path set. There is no new path... .  that is an illusion. I sit here crying because the stark reality pummels me even though we spoke in a hope and in a true desire to cling to each other. It is not so. I'm writing this because other's need to know the dire difference between a desperate hope and what both parties truly suffer and feel after the connection.

That is to say that after he hung up the phone... . and we went our separate ways... .  I could feel his fears and demons over riding any progress made to only emphasize everything he deemed fit to sabotage based on re-living the things that for him were deal breakers. Nothing I said even thought it appeared that progress was made helped. I know that because I sit here feeling that, feeling him and his isolation. There is no hope. He will continue to perpetuate his reality which will ensure that he is cut off from any true love.

I am alone... .  and he is cutting me off as I write this. I can feel it. I know it... .  and nothing I can do or say can change it because his illness is greater than any truth or any Love, no matter how strong.

Tomorrow he will call me as he promised. He will have resigned himself once again to his isolated prison. Again my heart will be broken but I know that I can't keep enduring this over and over again. I will ask him to free me if he truly loves me and in this way I will sever what I need to in order for me to move on.

The 4 hour conversation last night would have made anyone believe differently. He wanted to try again and was desperate for it but I can feel him and his great battle. I can feel that he cannot allow himself to believe or trust no matter how much he loves me. This is a reality that I feel in connection with him, the only man I have ever been connected to in this way. I feel him... .  feel his thoughts... .  his heart and although this may be inexplicable it is true. When I post tomorrow night I can only say that it will be confirming the very thing I speak of in this post.

Perhaps that will serve in some way to help others. I don't know... .  the pain is too great and regardless of his illness he is one of the most beautiful souls I have ever known or ever will know.

It is what it is... .  and I don't believe or at least I don't feel that my heart will ever properly get over him. He was my One and only, only it could never be. Have to let go... .  because there is no other option. I can't see another way because there is torture insides every aspect of this. The thought of being friends is equally an illusion that I know he is clinging to. It cannot be because in the center of this all is far too much love, jealousy and pain.

In the end ... .  there can only be a good-bye and judging by our conversation last night this sounds the reverse of everything we spoke about. But the tears that stream from me are because I know the truth regardless of the fantasy.

God give me strength. Truth really does hurt more than I can contain in my body.

[Surrender]

I tried to correct the above version but something went wrong so I'll just post the corrections here: Apologies for the trouble.


The hopelessness of it all is likened to a tsunami that you have absolutely no power to thwart. According to the conversation we had last night you would think there was hope and a new path set. You would think that we were resolute upon a new 'faithful' avenue as he put it. "Let's be faithful now and build new bridges". He said to me "be faithful... .  I don't want a world without you".

There is no new path... .  that is an illusion. I sit here crying because the stark reality pummels me even though we spoke in a hope and in a true desire to cling to each other. We can't beat these odds because an ant cannot defeat an elephant that tramples it. It cannot be so no matter the desperation in both parties. Truth prevails and both "FEEL" what that truth is.  I'm writing this because others need to know the dire difference between a desperate hope and what both parties truly suffer and feel after the connection. The desperate hope and the reality are two different things and neither can meet ever in the middle.

I feel my Spartan even after we made so many advances... .  or so I thought. That is false and I can FEEL it. The reality is that it cannot be so. This torture is never ending... .  and I have had too much. The patterns repeat themselves like clockwork and I am left victim and Lover. Victim Lover. I can't wait forever... .  for something that will never change or heal. In his process I am being destroyed and not because he wants to hurt me but because he can't help it. He can't help it or protect me from it. I see the torture in his eyes and in his honesty for all its confusion. He is in agony and what is worse his agony is only made a far worse burden knowing what he is doing to me. Yet he can't help himself. I'm raw and I know there is only a good-bye. He must let me go because I am too linked inside him unless he frees me.

After he hung up the phone... . and we went our separate ways... .  I could feel his fears and demons over riding any progress made, plaguing him and magnifying the same fears to kill any progress made. Everything he deemed fit before hand to sabotage our love was relived after our 4 hour conversation, making them deal breakers once again. Nothing I said even thought it appeared that progress was made helped. I know that because I sit here feeling that, feeling him and his isolation. There is no hope. He will continue to perpetuate his reality which will ensure that he is cut off from any true love. I know it's a hard thing to believe but I can feel him and I can feel his thoughts. Perhaps that is a testimony to how intimately we have been entwined because it was always that way since the beginning. Tomorrow's call will confirm what I have written here.

I am alone sitting here a world apart from him... . and I can feel he is cutting me off as I write this. I can feel it literally. He is making justifications and returning to his paranoid version of reality. I know it... .  and I feel it... .  and nothing I can do or say can change that because his illness is greater than any truth or any Love, no matter how strong.

Tomorrow he will call me as he promised. He will have resigned himself once again to his isolated prison. Again my heart will be broken but I know that I can't keep enduring this over and over again. I will ask him to free me if he truly loves me and in this way I will sever what I need to in order for me to move on.

The 4 hour conversation last night would have made anyone believe differently. They would have had false hope but I've been there before with him. I know he wanted to try again and was desperate for it but I can feel him and his great battle. I can feel that he cannot allow himself to believe or trust no matter how much he loves me. This is a reality that I feel in connection with him, the only man I have ever been connected to in this way. I feel him... .  feel his thoughts... .  his heart and although this may be inexplicable it is true. When I post tomorrow night I can only say that it will be confirming the very thing I speak of in this post.

Perhaps that will serve in some way to help others. I don't know... .  the pain is too great and regardless of his illness he is one of the most beautiful souls I have ever known or ever will know.

It is what it is... .  and I don't believe or at least I don't feel that my heart will ever properly get over him. He was my One and only, only it could never be. Have to let go... .  because there is no other option. I can't see another way because there is torture inside every aspect of this. The thought of being friends is equally an illusion that I know he is clinging to. It cannot be because in the center of this all is far too much love, jealousy and pain. In the center of wanting to be friends for his protection he will continue to fight his desires for me and so the punishment will follow as it always does.

In the end ... .  there can only be a good-bye and judging by our conversation last night this sounds the reverse of everything we spoke about. But the tears that stream from me are because I know the truth regardless of the fantasy. I am crying without wanting to cry... .  it is simply a response that I'm not in control of. That means that everything I am feeling is true and can't deny it even though I am desperate to believe the opposite.

God give me strength. Truth really does hurt more than I can contain in my body. I am helpless and know nothing I do can help him or help him to help us. Nothing. It is a barren waste land where life doesn't stand a chance. I have to let go and let time heal me, if it can.

I'm not certain that it can but I am a victim either way and have no choice it seems.

Just tears.

[maria1]

Cryingwings

You are accepting the unbearable reality of Borderline Personality Disorder. It is impossible to love them and impossible to leave. But leaving saves you when they do not want to save themselves.

Acceptance hurts more than anything. But it moves you forward. The only way out is through. Time will help you, I promise. We are with you 

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Crying; hope you're feeling a little better?

I feel for you, caught up emotionally and trying to make sense of the nonsensical.  The disorder will never make sense to those of us who aren't disordered, and trying to make sense of it just pulls us down the rabbit hole.

A BPD's need to attach is a matter of life or death to them, because they do not have a fully formed personality, are not whole, so need someone else to 'complete' them.  So they're extremely good at it, and those hooks get all the way in to our psyche and our heart.

No amount of love or reason can fix him.  You cannot fix him.  The best thing you can do is save yourself, you know this, and detaching hurts like hell.  You mentioned he lives far away, so did mine, and that can help.  The folks on this board care and understand, and we're here, and it might be better to find someone live where you are to be with you and help you walk this path; it's hardest in the beginning.  I went to Vegas a week after we split, because I just had to get the hell out; it worked temporarily, and the hangover sucked.  But hey, whatever it takes; you know the cycle with him will just repeat indefinitely, so maybe you doing something radically different is what it will take.  Please keep us posted.

[Hurt llama]

Hi Crying; hope you're feeling a little better?

I feel for you, caught up emotionally and trying to make sense of the nonsensical.  The disorder will never make sense to those of us who aren't disordered, and trying to make sense of it just pulls us down the rabbit hole.

A BPD's need to attach is a matter of life or death to them, because they do not have a fully formed personality, are not whole, so need someone else to 'complete' them.  So they're extremely good at it, and those hooks get all the way in to our psyche and our heart.

No amount of love or reason can fix him.  You cannot fix him.  The best thing you can do is save yourself, you know this, and detaching hurts like hell.  You mentioned he lives far away, so did mine, and that can help.  The folks on this board care and understand, and we're here, and it might be better to find someone live where you are to be with you and help you walk this path; it's hardest in the beginning.  I went to Vegas a week after we split, because I just had to get the hell out; it worked temporarily, and the hangover sucked.  But hey, whatever it takes; you know the cycle with him will just repeat indefinitely, so maybe you doing something radically different is what it will take.  Please keep us posted.

So well said and obviously important for all of us to remember. I needed it too.

CW, asking him to let you go, pleading with him that way is not something he is able to do.You can't fix him. Asking him to let you go is like asking him to kill himself. You are not responsible for him.

This stuff obviously is classic patterns of all sorts of addictive behavior from both of you. it's brutally hard to unwind it.

There is no shame in seeing a specialist in trauma or a good therapist to help support you. Medication shouldn't be ruled out if you are feeling as you can't stop.

More support is better from those around you. Do you have Al Anon near you?

I'm sorry to be reading this. Sent you some information via PM.

What happened to my Warrior friend?

Joke! We all get hit hard and we help each other up!

I'm here... .  we all are for you. 

[Surrender]

Hi Crying; hope you're feeling a little better?

I feel for you, caught up emotionally and trying to make sense of the nonsensical.  The disorder will never make sense to those of us who aren't disordered, and trying to make sense of it just pulls us down the rabbit hole.

A BPD's need to attach is a matter of life or death to them, because they do not have a fully formed personality, are not whole, so need someone else to 'complete' them.  So they're extremely good at it, and those hooks get all the way in to our psyche and our heart.

No amount of love or reason can fix him.  You cannot fix him.  The best thing you can do is save yourself, you know this, and detaching hurts like hell.  

Thank you so much all of you. I feel like I was hit hard last night and feel a bit clearer. I was reflecting since speaking with him Monday night that this is exactly what is meant by toxicity and as you stated it gets in your psyche which is self-destructive. Maybe I was purging a part of me in preparation because that is how it feels.

The way you explain their need to attach due to a missing core explains his desperation and that can no longer be my problem as this whole thing is simply just crazy toxic. I know I had a relapse which triggered me due to my past traumatic experiences causing the obscurity of reality. Simply he triggers me and is triggering me even more so the deeper this co-dependent  dys-function goes. 

Thank you my dear friend Hurt llama for pointing those things out that are all true about my response in addiction co-dependance. I am seeing a counselor and my doctor. My entire past coupled with my ex is a dangerous brew. The combination is too volatile and loaded triggering all my past traumas. This I feel I am discovering more and more as I see the devolution and true nature of the r/s and illness not excluding my own issues that are related to my past traumas. I am truly seeing just how toxic this all really is and how dangerous it is for me.

All the advice and everything I have read is a huge help. I feel like I have had a crash course in this all because I spent the better part of the past two years trying to figure out what he was suffering from and what the actual reality was between our dynamic. We enabled each other because we are both suffering different dys-functions. Mine is related to my past traumas and his to the disorder. Combined it is simply lethal essentially destroying us both. 

I actually feel some relief and the advice to perhaps do something entirely different in the detachment is a great one. The shift and pre-occupation with new stimuli is a good diversion. In many ways I see it would have been easier to continue the n/c.

Thank you everyone truly. 

[Hurt llama]

That's so great CW! 

You have a strong will and you keep coming back to doing the right things for yourself, in spite of the tremendous almost gravitational pull we all seem to face. I can't believe I feel it towards my ex, even after all I have posted and done.

I"ve posted several times the analogy of breaking our addictions and the relationship with BPD partners as living in Crazy Land and being on a ride that makes us sick... . and when it stops, we need to get back on for more. I guess this really is like heroin addiction. It's the worst.

You sound much better today and I'm glad to see you doing the right things to help yourself.

[goldylamont]

CryingWings i can see you are working things through in your writings. this is good! i know book recommendations are a long shot, but i like to give them when the thought surfaces--i read this book a year ago just prior to breaking up, it's written by one of the most talented horse trainers alive. the author is a woman who uncovered secrets about her past abusive r/s with her husband through working with abused horses. i believe she started the first (or one of the first) equine therapy centers, treating mostly women suffering from abusive relationships. i LOVED this book and feel it can give you a clearer picture of why you feel physically sick sometimes when dealing with the ex... .  a horse would know this right away

The Tao of Equus: A Woman's Journey of Healing and Transformation through the Way of the Horse

www.amazon.com/Tao-Equus-Journey-Healing-Transformation/dp/1577314204

[Surrender]

CryingWings i can see you are working things through in your writings. this is good! i know book recommendations are a long shot, but i like to give them when the thought surfaces--i read this book a year ago just prior to breaking up, it's written by one of the most talented horse trainers alive. the author is a woman who uncovered secrets about her past abusive r/s with her husband through working with abused horses. i believe she started the first (or one of the first) equine therapy centers, treating mostly women suffering from abusive relationships. i LOVED this book and feel it can give you a clearer picture of why you feel physically sick sometimes when dealing with the ex... .  a horse would know this right away

The Tao of Equus: A Woman's Journey of Healing and Transformation through the Way of the Horse

www.amazon.com/Tao-Equus-Journey-Healing-Transformation/dp/1577314204

Thank you so much Goldy. I do believe I am that horse judging by my past trauma and this triggering r/s experience. It makes a strange sort of sense that I am only now discovering. My past made me the perfect partner in some ways and perhaps that is where I will find healing in all of this. I will most definitely be reading that book.   

[SurvivedLove]

Forgottenarm, a member here, once wrote very insightfully about her ex that he didn't seem to like that she really knew him and loved him despite these wounds & dysfunctions.  He preferred her to consume and be persuaded by his false self.  He did not appreciate that she saw deeper than that, because he could not believe anyone who really saw those things could possibly stay and love him.

One thing that rings incredibly true to me that your ex told you on the phone is that he is scared to give you his heart & then be vulnerable to the same disappointment and failure that caused him to leave you in the first place.  I think this is one of the most honest, full statements of the BPD core reality you will ever here.  I've heard versions of that from many of the members of this board who've been honored by deep, honest, self-reflective conversations with their partners about what this condition really feels like.  The core dynamic is one of disappointment, and the devastation of being disappointed by an intimate partner.  Likely because of some original trauma they experienced, they are certain (not fearful -- certain) that they will be disappointed, and the pain of that is unbearable.  With each new love there is a momentary break in the certainty, a hope that disappointment can be avoided.  But then something happens that disabuses them of that, and you fall from this impossible-to-sustain position of being the one who will not disappoint, and then you become terrifying, because you have the power to hurt greatly, and they cannot stand that fear.

Once that happens, he is right, you see.  You will disappoint him and that will hurt him -- unless he has the skills to process this & to filter out your love and warmth from the day to day disappointments that inevitably will occur.  And it's a trap for you, because the more you try not to disappoint, the more suspicious he becomes that you must be concealing something or have a hidden agenda (the phrase my ex used about me toward the end of our intimate friendship) ... .  the better you are, the higher the stakes, and the more scared they get to believe in your and the r/s.  An awful trap for you both.

I don't think your ex's impulse to want you in his life in that way is ill-intentioned, probably the opposite.  He is probably trying to hang onto the good, pure feelings he has for you and leave behind the messy betrayal part, that he associates with sex and romance.

Many people on here report their exes talking about wanting to keep the emotional connection but not have sex and by all means not Formally Acknowledging The Relationship.  One member here, Cardinals in Flight, calls the resulting unacknowledged primary r/s an "unship."  It's a real thing pwBPD seem to want to do and to be able to do -- to a point.  Another former member I correspond with has a pretty awesome sexual and constant emotional r/s with her "ex" who is really her partner, but he keeps insisting it is not really a relationship and he is actually searching for another partner.  A friend of mine in real life observed about my ex that "he can only be intimate with you by denying that it is happening."

And he is offering it because you really are very important to him and he really does feel connected to you.

I think a lot of what is discussed on this board as pwBPD keeping exes around as "narcissistic supply," etc., is really a much more understandable desire that they have not to completely lose people they tried to attach to, just because their attempt to have a romantic partnership inevitably was destroyed by BPD.

But I don't think he is a monster trying to manipulate you with talk of your deep connection & his desire not to lose it.  My guess would be that he ultimately will be unable to maintain that connection with integrity, as a lover (as you've already experienced, since it sounds like he immediately resumed a r/s with someone else? as did mine, BTW, which caused me to spend 10 months in NC) or a friend.  But that doesn't mean the impulse isn't coming from a place of genuine warmth toward and connection with you.  It's a tragedy for him, too.

patientandclear, you have just given me a lightbulb moment here.

Thank you.

Now my ex's actions and words suddenly makes a whole new kind of sense.

Now his "We're more than friends, we ARE MORE!" (after me saying that there is no such things as more than friends, you either love someone like "that" or you do not)  suddenly makes sense.

And I think back to something he said during a very honest and lucid conversation.

"I don't know what I have done to deserve you as my... .  what ever we are. As my Sweets. But I am so glad I have you and I don't wanna lose you."

And now, for the first time in 8 months, I miss him. I miss him so deep in the core of my soul that my body literally hurts. I have stayed out of touch, I have stayed off the grid, I have fallen off the radar. I have taken away all his options of getting any information about me from anyone. I have ruminated, I have growled, I have questioned and I have been angry. But until now, right this moment, I have not grieved.

Thank you for giving me words that let me grieve the loss, the death of our dreams, everything.

[patientandclear]

patientandclear, you have just given me a lightbulb moment here.

Thank you.

Now my ex's actions and words suddenly makes a whole new kind of sense.

Now his "We're more than friends, we ARE MORE!" (after me saying that there is no such things as more than friends, you either love someone like "that" or you do not)  suddenly makes sense.

And I think back to something he said during a very honest and lucid conversation.

"I don't know what I have done to deserve you as my... .  what ever we are. As my Sweets. But I am so glad I have you and I don't wanna lose you."

And now, for the first time in 8 months, I miss him. I miss him so deep in the core of my soul that my body literally hurts. I have stayed out of touch, I have stayed off the grid, I have fallen off the radar. I have taken away all his options of getting any information about me from anyone. I have ruminated, I have growled, I have questioned and I have been angry. But until now, right this moment, I have not grieved.

Thank you for giving me words that let me grieve the loss, the death of our dreams, everything.

Survived Love -- I've felt, and feel, exactly as you wrote above.     What's really awful is that even with understanding and compassion, our pwBPD are afraid of us.  And their defenses and reactions to that do incredible damage, unless we can completely detach emotionally, in which case, we don't have much left of the connection that originally made all of this seem worthwhile.

I hate BPD.

[goldylamont]

I hate BPD.

ME TOO!  :'(