He says I am bipolar - Insights and a few questions

[dawnjd]

Hey all. It is always nice to know I can come to these boards and share my feelings, experiences and ask questions. My other friends think I am insane for staying with uBPDso.

Today was a sh** hit the fan day with SO. There are times that things are so good that I think maybe I am wrong about his BPD, but today confirmed it all. Started with me expecting him to behave different for mother's day, but didn't happen. I was disappointed. Tried my best to hide my feels but when he pushed me on it.

Him "Tell me now, I know something is wrong.”.

My reply, “I am not having a very good mother’s day and I kind of blame you.”

Well, holy cow. He called me an “angry person, who will never be happy and how dare I say something so hurtful to him. People who love each other don’t say such hurtful things.” It ended with him packing his suitcase. I didn’t chase him down, but pointed out that leaving wasn’t going to fix anything and adults have to discuss their issues to resolve them.

The fight was basically a continuous repetition of him telling me, “You are so unhappy, you will never be happy, no one will ever make you happy, we will never work out. If you love someone, how can you hurt them so much, you just like to fight and pick on me all the time, etc., etc., etc.”

My replies were various, “I can see why you are hurt, but I am hurt too” “Yes I am unhappy at times, but I am relatively happy.” I do love you, I want to understand you and talk about this.”  “I am not attacking you, I am just trying to share my feelings with you.” “My feelings are not meant to hurt you, they are just how I feel.” Etc, etc.

He then declared that “You are Bipolar, you should get tested. I know because I grew up with a bipolar parent.”

It was very hard for me to not laugh at this. Very hard. I do have a depressive disorder that I am in treatment for, but my doctor and therapist were very careful to make sure I wasn’t bipolar before putting me on medication.  I even asked her if she thought I could be Borderline and she just smiled and said, “I highly doubt you are if you are asking.” (I have being seeing her for longer than 3 years, so she knows me very well).

BUT, instead of laughing, I replied, “I could see why you think I am bipolar. I agree that I should talk to my therapist about being tested for it.”

TWO things I learned from this : 1)There is a good chance he fears being bipolar because of his experience with his dad. 2) In his mind, someone can’t love another and be angry/mad/frustrated/etc at the same time. This realization confirmed all my suspicions that he is BPD. Anyway, this whole miserable experience was a breakthrough in my understanding and how I behave towards him.

He also told me a few times that “You hate being a mom, I know you do.” ---he is referring to my comments on those trying “mommy” days. You all know, where you son or daughter wear on you and you just think or say, “Somedays I just wish I wasn’t ‘mommy’.” And I have even said, “I love my son, but some days I don’t love being a mom.” I realized this is a reflection of his fears of his mom walking out when he was 14 and he probably fears my becoming her. I mean, only women who hate being mom’s walk out, right? (in his mind)

A few questions: Did I respond ok to things? Are my observations possibly correct? It was VERY hard to keep my cool. But does anyone else find that they have a short temper with other people after an encounter with a BPD? For me it feels like pent up anger that needs to be released and sadly, because I am a SAHM, I find myself snapping at my son more quickly after an encounter with his dad/mySO. I honestly think if I was in a work environment, my coworkers would be more annoying after a “fight” with SO. Any suggestions? Or am I alone in this?

Thanks for listening.

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[bruceli]

In my experience, the you are the sick one speach always comes after something stressful for them.  For example, dBPDw is going back to work tomorrow after having 4 days off coupled with our first T session this coming wednesday.  Out of the blue today she says... .  I think you are schizophrenic... .  I was like huh?   That was at about 5pm, the rest of the evening has been pretty much her trying to convince me that I am the one with the problem... .  yada, yada, yada... .  

[Rockylove]

My reply, “I am not having a very good mother’s day and I kind of blame you.”

... .    “I am not attacking you, I am just trying to share my feelings with you.” “My feelings are not meant to hurt you, they are just how I feel.” Etc, etc.


A few questions: Did I respond ok to things? Are my observations possibly correct? It was VERY hard to keep my cool. But does anyone else find that they have a short temper with other people after an encounter with a BPD? For me it feels like pent up anger that needs to be released and sadly, because I am a SAHM, I find myself snapping at my son more quickly after an encounter with his dad/mySO. I honestly think if I was in a work environment, my coworkers would be more annoying after a “fight” with SO. Any suggestions? Or am I alone in this?

1st things 1st~~    Parenting can be trying under the best of circumstances and we do the best we are able with the tools we have.  If you feel that you are too overwhelmed on those crazy days, you probably are and need a mental breather.   Bubble baths & soothing music always helped me get through those days.  Perhaps talking to your therapist about the pent up anger and ways to prevent that would help keep it from spilling over onto other people.

Back to the  Mother's Day comment.  You may not have meant anything hurtful, but you pretty much told him that you blame him for your bad mood.  He most likely latched onto that and heard little else.  I don't want to sound harsh, but we alone are responsible for our moods and feelings.  You chose to let his behavior affect your mood. 

Being relatively happy has never been enough for me... .  I wanted to be genuinely happy and it could only happen if I made my mind up to be so.  That doesn't mean that I am always in a good mood and don't get down... .  but it does mean that I'm the one who is responsible for recognizing the positive things in my life and get over the blues.  Being genuinely happy is difficult for someone who is prone to depression and we have to work a bit harder than some to keep the positive outlook.  It's a process and  very difficult to get there when we are with someone who is hell bent on keeping us down.  Misery loves company! 

Take time to nurture yourself... .  it's important to keep our batteries charged. 

[dawnjd]

Thank you Bruce - I am getting used to being "Feared" because in his mind I am the one with the problem and because of my history of depression/ppd, he has "proof" I am sick to some extent. It was very hard to not laugh at this because the accusation was so off course and I have multiple medical confirmations that I am not bipolar. I was just proud of myself for not going on the defense and validating his feeling that I could be bipolar. I didn't agree, just said I will look into being tested. I am seeing that it comes from his black/white thinking. How could someone love another and be frustrated/unhappy with them at the same time? In my family, we could be red -hot mad at each other, but still love each other. I remember past relationships where exSOs and I would have a fight, but we would always say "I love you" in the end.

Rocky, thank you. I do plan to talk to my therapist about this more. If after a "fight" with SO, I get short with DS or other people, SO sees that as another reason to accuse me of being 'sick'. Sadly, I can't take a mental breather in most cases. Someone has to continue taking care of the responsibilities around here and when SO is angry, or we just had a fight, he refuse to do anything with DS (feed, bath, answer questions) or any other responsibilities  around the house/farm. I have my times to take a bath, watch a good tv show, but they aren't always conveniently after a fight.

I realize that I shouldn't have added to "I blame you" part of the sentence. I spent the whole morning, tell myself "Zen, zen" "What would a monk do? You can't control the flows of life, so go with the flows of life." I even stepped out to have a good cry in the chicken coop to hide my feelings from him. But he insisted and just pushed me until I told him exactly what I thought. Not the best self control at the moment.

It is just hard when you feel happy and fine, until the other person comes home and then you just get in the dumps because of their 'energy vampire' qualities. There is just no understanding on his part what a 24/7 mom entails and it get frustrating at times (if I am tired, he is more tired... .  etc, etc). But this isn't a complaint about pwBPD only, I hear many moms make the same complaint about their husbands! Not letting his mood/actions affect mine is an ongoing study and learning process. Someday I will be better and you pointing this out really helps. Repetition is the key.

My therapist and I have worked very hard on developing skills/actions to take when I feel the dark cloud moving over my head... .  how to manage the triggers (lack of sleep is a big one) and how far it needs to go to before I need to 'call in the big guns'. Ever since we knocked the PPD out, I have managed it pretty well. The cloud is mostly grey and never goes dark. So when he tells me things (over and over and over) like, "You are unhappy, you will never be happy" "You are the type of person that finds reasons to be unhappy because you don't like being happy." my coping skills become less powerful against my depression and I fear it might go dark again. I am beginning to wonder if he in some way wants me to go back to depression because that makes me needier and as I get happier, I become less dependent on him (fear of abandonment).

Thanks for all the advice and listening!

[waverider]

There is no part blame or fleeting anger. If you have either then you are totally blaming or you are completely angry and always will be. They latch onto absolutes and find it difficult to let challenging issues wash away as just a small side effect of something else. You cant 'debate" them back to reality as that invalidate their view and defences go up and everything spirals.

[briefcase]

Also, be careful about validating their "facts" - i.e. you have bi-polar disorder.  Saying you will "check it out" is basically validating his facts.  Focus on validating his emotions around this statement.  What must he be feeling to make such a statement to you.  Frustrated?  Hurt?  You can validate those feelings - "You sound frustrated right now." Or "I know you are hurting." 

Also, be careful of the word "but"  it tends to negate what came before it: 

My replies were various, “I can see why you are hurt, but I am hurt too” “Yes I am unhappy at times, but I am relatively happy.” I do love you, I want to understand you and talk about this.”  “I am not attacking you, I am just trying to share my feelings with you.” “My feelings are not meant to hurt you, they are just how I feel.” Etc, etc.

Everything highlighted above probably felt invalidating to him.  Now, read the entire paragraph again, omitting all highlighted text.  Much more validating right?

[bruceli]

It seems once again that they will always find a way to equal the playing field in this case, we here have mentioned before how exhausting it must be for them to expend the energy to keep that mask up all day in order for a high functioning BPD to get through their day.  NOW, for us to have to EDIT everything we have to say to them that we would normally say to any person in the outside world... .  Gotcha nons... .  

[waverider]

 NOW, for us to have to EDIT everything we have to say to them that we would normally say to any person in the outside world... .  

The editing example briefcase gives, works for everyone nons as well as BPD. It is a common human error to over explain and justify. regular folks can often be just as "invaidated" by what we say at times, but just let it pass as part of the grey area of life. pwBPD dont do grey, so a little invalidation is complete invalidation, this triggers the defensive reaction.

In short there are consequences of our own failings, which would otherwise not be brought to our attention. This is the reason learning to live around BPD puts us under the spotlight and teaches us how better to react with ALL people.

Two years ago I was an insensitive jerk, now I am proud of who I am, that would not have occured without exposure to BPD, I would still be that jerk

Having said that accept that you are dealing with a tough task master and you are unlikely to always come out with the perfect response. Dont allow hindsight to undermine your confidence in yourself. Do your best and permit yourself to be proud of that, as most people dont even try.

[dawnjd]

Also, be careful of the word "but"  it tends to negate what came before it: 



Everything highlighted above probably felt invalidating to him.  Now, read the entire paragraph again, omitting all highlighted text.  Much more validating right?

This is more clear now. I need to think about it the way I do my scientific writing. In the results of my research, I just state what is there and don't add any "buts". I have been working on eliminating a lot of "but statements" out of my thesis because I realize they dig more holes in my arguement than fill. So maybe I need to apply the same principle to personal conversations. Practicing this in two areas of my life willbe good!

It is very hard to determine when I am validating facts and not. Like today he said, "You have the problems with me, I don't have problems with you." (after he tried to initiate sex after being a grump for the past 4 days and i was really not feeling like we were there yet). I don't want to say, "Yes, I have problems with you." and I can't say, "I don't have problems with you. " (Because it isn't true and it invalidates him). Do i say, "I see how that frustrates you."? (ignoring the circular logic here that confirms if he is frustrated that I have problems with him, then he really has problems with me too... .  ).

[dawnjd]

The editing example briefcase gives, works for everyone nons as well as BPD. It is a common human error to over explain and justify. regular folks can often be just as "invaidated" by what we say at times, but just let it pass as part of the grey area of life. pwBPD dont do grey, so a little invalidation is complete invalidation, this triggers the defensive reaction.

In short there are consequences of our own failings, which would otherwise not be brought to our attention. This is the reason learning to live around BPD puts us under the spotlight and teaches us how better to react with ALL people.

Two years ago I was an insensitive jerk, now I am proud of who I am, that would not have occured without exposure to BPD, I would still be that jerk

Having said that accept that you are dealing with a tough task master and you are unlikely to always come out with the perfect response. Dont allow hindsight to undermine your confidence in yourself. Do your best and permit yourself to be proud of that, as most people dont even try.

So true, I have noticed how I interact differently with all sorts of people now. It is easier to ignore the jerks on the roads and "mentally" validate them (Maybe we should all put a sign on the back of our cars that says, "You sound frustrated right now."!) People who get mad at/ treat badly waitresses and cashiers are seen from a different light now. Listening to people's problems with a much more empathetic ear has gotten well practiced. If anything, learning all these new techniques make me a better communicator and listener. (still doesn't mean it isn't hard with SO, but I think things are always harder with the people closest to us

[waverider]

When you use this across all your interactions with everyone, it makes it instinctive, brings about rewards and so becomes less of a chore and subconscious.

Think how T's speak, they dont seem to say a lot, but the little they do is not to tell the client how it is but rather to redirect the clients thoughts towards self discovery, completely avoiding getting into conflict and debate. Less is more.

Every word you use is a potential rock to add to the avalanche that can come down on your head.