I don't understand the sex life talk

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Good topic, Moonie. I think musicfan42 answered the question well.

I would often say to my uBPDex that she mistook sex for love. My observation is that when they have done the wrong thing, are scared or fearful of abandonment sex gives them that sense of security that they need so much. When all else fails sex will make them feel better, wanted and loved and by overwhelming you with it it's the perfect tool to blindside you.

Mine always said that in previous relationships the number of orgasms she would have ranged from "one to none". I can't imagine the new guy has gone ga-ga over her if the sex was not overwhelming and he is not "the best lover she has ever had" like we once were. It's all BS and they fall back on sex to solve all the problems they cause and its a great way to blindside the new guy.  

But there is something more to the sex thing that I never figured out - my uBPDex masturbated a hell of a lot and always wanted more and more sex. Ten orgasms were never enough and she would still masturbate afterwards, masturbate in the mornings and masturbate while watching TV in the lounge room. Unlike what I've read in these forums, she never withheld sex or used it as a bargaining tool (except for the last two weeks where she tried to withhold).  

[Aussie0zborn]

Good topic, Moonie. I think musicfan42 answered the question well.

I would often say to my uBPDex that she mistook sex for love. My observation is that when they have done the wrong thing, are scared or fearful of abandonment sex gives them that sense of security that they need so much. When all else fails sex will make them feel better, wanted and loved and by overwhelming you with it it's the perfect tool to blindside you.

Mine always said that in previous relationships the number of orgasms she would have ranged from "one to none". I can't imagine the new guy has gone ga-ga over her if the sex was not overwhelming and he is not "the best lover she has ever had" like we once were. It's all BS and they fall back on sex to solve all the problems they cause and its a great way to blindside the new guy.  

But there is something more to the sex thing that I never figured out - my uBPDex masturbated a hell of a lot and always wanted more and more sex. Ten orgasms were never enough and she would still masturbate afterwards, masturbate in the mornings and masturbate while watching TV in the lounge room. Unlike what I've read in these forums, she never withheld sex or used it as a bargaining tool (except for the last two weeks where she tried to withhold).  

[caughtnreleased]

It's not in question whether they tell you the truth or not!

They can't tell the truth, we know this!


I have a contradictory impression.  It appears to me that they ALWAYS tell the truth.  Let us here make a distinction between 'Truth" and "Facts".

Facts are fixed, unchanged, verifiable.  Truth is subjective interpretation of those facts.

So it seems to me that the BPD sufferers always tell the truth which is, as they perceive the facts.  As their perception and feelings change, their "Truth" changes too.

For a BPD sufferer, there is no distinction between "Facts" and "Feelings".  So if they are angry, their perception is that you made them angry, and so is their 'Truth".

Actually my dBPDex told me he lies to people all the time, had no sense of identity, etc.  So, in terms of who they are and what they do, I think they lie, but what they feel, I don't think they lie about it - it's just that what they feel is constantly changing... . so in the moment its the truth, but it doesn't mean much.

Regarding sex though, I think that it's something really key for how a borderline thinks of himself.  Maybe it's really the only thing they can cling to in their fragile identity.  At one point, when I guess he really wanted to hurt me and was telling me he had moved on to someone else, he justified it in many ways, including the 'I'm a lover' line. And that one really gave me pause.  I think that yes, because intimacy is impossible for them, sex is the next best thing, or can replace it, so in their minds if they think they are "good lovers" well that's how they can draw people in. 

Acknowledging deficiencies in that area would probably make them feel utterly and completely powerless, it's kind of a place that they can't go to. What would have happenned if I'd challenged his "I'm a lover" statement - I feel bad even thinking about it.  It's like rejecting at a child's only hope for existence.

While my BPDex was weird in bed, he was (is) extremely physically attractive, so he still has power there... . like an ability to create desire in people, but can't actually ever deliver the goods.   

Sex with him was the weirdest I'd ever experienced.  At first, it felt like he just wanted to consume me, and it was way over the top. Then there were moments in sex where he just dissociated, lay there like a zombie, and it would last 2 seconds. When he was drunk or on drugs it probably worked the best... . but even then, there was ALWAYS something wrong.  Like one time, he got this demonic look on his face as we were starting to have sex.  Almost like he wanted to freak me out, make me feel unsafe.  Which is why when he trotted out the "I'm a lover" line - I was kind of shocked.  The best moments I had with him were when we were intimate without sex, now that I think of it. Cuddling, etc.  It seems like sex was destabilizing for him.

It's all kind of sad, really.

[rollercoaster24]

Hi all

When I met my exUBPD, he suggested we have STD tests before becoming 'involved'.

He said this was something we should both do, due to our suspicions over our then recently past lovers...

Later he used this to devalue me, insisting that it was primarily because of me that he suggested this, (what a hypocrite I thought)...

He also said to me in the beginnings, in this totally cold voice, (assuming I thought I had 'power over him' that "A little sex won't influence me, (insert my name here)".

Yet, as we became partial lovers and in a relationship, he went all out to really impress me, (going way overboard), infact I had to tell him to stop many times, because I had had plenty of pleasure, and the sensations of his attempting to give me more was too much... He wanted to do it all the time, several times per day, was always trying to lure me into the bedroom, walking around naked, drawing attention to his 'equipment', (he had psoriasis and occasionally it flared up on his thing). I found it funny and endearing mostly, and of course I was highly and primally attracted to him always, so it was never hard to tempt me, but occasionally I found it annoying too...

If I was busy, and didn't pay him enough attention, he could easily turn nasty again too, I just never knew, since I walked on eggshells the whole time anyway...

It was also nothing for him to turn on me like a black widow only minutes after making love... Yet I still was drawn to him powerfully like a 'moth to a flame'.

This was his hook I believe... the bragging about how good he was, the idolisation of my feminine parts, how I looked, how I smelt, and of course he felt gifted in terms of his own equipment too, bragging about it a lot... yet he gave the impression that the whole sex thing wasn't a big issue to him... as if he could take it or leave it, he wasn't some sex starved maniac, totally obsessed with it or women in general...

When he went out to intentionally hurt me, (for some imagined hurt I had perpetrated on him) he would devalue me sexually, once comparing me to his last serious partner, saying I wasn't as tall, wasn't blonde, she had a better body, and was more 'wild' in bed, that perhaps I wasn't wild enough for him...

I never recovered from that... .

He justified saying this to me, because he felt I had hurt him on purpose... . Yet I hadn't... The hurt I might have given him was not intentionally done, and likely was in response to some way more powerful hurt that he had continually done to me...

In the last months of our relationship, he shunned most affection, (not that he was ever that affectionate anyway) and also shunned any sexual contact with me... Accusing me of coming up to see him, and treating him like a 'booty call'...

This was a revenge tactic, because of the way he would turn on me after making love, I had often said to him that it seemed like that was all he had wanted from me...

Thing is, I never turned on him after making love, ever...

His excuse for shunning affection and making love, was mostly that he had lost more weight, (not eating) and he looked horrible, like a concentration camp prisoner... In his eyes, his parents, and my family (who prevent him from living with me in his eyes) are the Nazis... He often abused me, yet at the same time, treated me like I 'deserved it' since I am a Nazi myself...

His mind is that twisted, that he believes his parents are starving him, and he used to say that when he lived with me too, yet it was all in his own twisted delusional mind... . like most things sadly...

I hope he gets the help he needs, badly, before it is too late... or before he kills someone... (even if accidentally).

[GreenMango]

SO WHY WHY WHY NEVER GO THERE?

Maybe the sex was fine and it was all the other emotional chaos that upset the apple cart of the relationship?

Is it possible that her leaving regardless of the quality of the sex life may be more important to you than her? 

SELF-AWARE: When is good sex a bad thing?

[pecia]

My uBPDh is very focused on sex. He always said that is what our relationship was based on. I have only had sex with one other man (when I lost my virginity). After that, for the past 18 yrs - it has been only him. You could say he trained me to be how he wanted. Things really didn't get bad until after the 10 year mark. He started to paint me black occasionally. The emotional distance led to me physically not wanting to have sex with him. This sparked some abandonment issues in him. It convinced him that I must not desire him, that he wasn't good enough, or there must be someone else. He couldn't wrap his mind around me not wanting to have sex with him because I was upset with him. He cheated on me after that. I didn't totally cut him off - but it was not every other day like he wanted. His rational for why he cheated was that I didn't have sex with him enough. He couldn't transition from sex crazed teenagers into adults that have many obligations and can't always focus on the physical. It was literally the only thing he computed as love. He began referring to me as a whore and would periodically say really mean things to me (still does) if he felt like I wasn't giving him enough "attention". I do love having sex with him but cruelty doesn't exactly get me in the mood. It has been this battle for 8 years - during which I had a intermittent long distance emotional affair. He actually said to me that the guy could not possibly love me unless we had sex. For him, I believe that is true in his mind. I have been trying to detach to protect myself (I believe he is cheating again). He says he wants a divorce, he is moving out, blah, blah. Then he will say that he loathes the idea of some other man getting to have sex with me. Well ok. I pointed out to him that if we are divorced, who I have sex with is none of his business. He was being particularly mean for a couple of days. I was ignoring his mean texts (we work opposite shifts so we can go a few days without seeing each other). I was acting as unconcerned as I could. Yesterday morning, he showed up (while he was at work) right after I got home. I ignored him. He told me to come lock the door. I said ok and got up (he refuses to kiss me or have any contact). I went to close the door behind him - he turned, grabbed me and kissed me, told me a was a beautiful woman, and we ended up having sex. Ok - I probably shouldn't have done it but I love him and I was starved for affection. I didn't hear from him for the following 24 hrs. When he got home this evening - he ignored me, grabbed a 6 pk of beer and headed out to go party with his friends. It was as if yesterday didn't happen. Last week when he did a similar thing, I took it to mean I was getting painted a little whiter. I was promptly informed that the sex didn't change anything and that he just f**ked me like the whore I was. It made me cry. I do think that when he gets to feeling me pulling away - that is how he pulls me back. And it is very difficult to refuse any kind of affection from him. Especially when I want to stay and make it work. They are some confusing folks.  - pecia

[GreenMango]

Pecia that's pretty awful. :'(  I can see why you wouldnt want to have sex and get any closer to him.

For everybody in this thread-

One of the things the 10th beliefs from the lessons promote is

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel If you believe that your BPD partner was experiencing the relationship in the same way that you were or that they are feeling the same way you do right now, don’t count on it. This will only serve to confuse you and make it harder to understand what is really happening.

It really applies to a lot things in the differences of how a person may think sadly.

Here are the lessons on the beliefs that can keep you stuck:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331264#msg1331264

[Clearmind]

Sex and intimacy are two completely different things. Intimacy requires vulnerability.

Since Borderlines fear intimacy - sex became an act for my ex. And for me too. If he devalued me what better way to avoid all the feelings and emotions than to have sex - it was used as a barometer for the "health" of our relationship. Towards the end we hardly ever had sex. He had an issue with that and told me it was one of the reasons he left!

Sex with intimacy ---> connectedness and shared experience not used for leverage in a relationship for servitude/validation.

MOONIE - if a women was to say these things to you again what would be your thinking?

SO WHY WHY WHY NEVER GO THERE?

Maybe the sex was fine and it was all the other emotional chaos that upset the apple cart of the relationship?

Is it possible that her leaving regardless of the quality of the sex life may be more important to you than her?  

SELF-AWARE: When is good sex a bad thing?

Worth noting from this workshop... .

How do we know when the sex has become "blinding" to us in the relationship?

How do we know when the sex has become a way to cope?

What are sign that my sexual drives are unhealthy or hurting me?

Is it my partner? Me? Both of us?

Objectification is another topic worth noting and exploring.

[caughtnreleased]

Sex and intimacy are two completely different things. Intimacy requires vulnerability.

and yet... . pwBPD are soo vulnerable. But maybe not all of them show it. I don't know. Did anyone else have this experience? By BPDex's vulnerability was probably what really sucked me in the most.  I guess it's just that they can't trust people to whom they expose this vulnerability, so they show us their pain and then they slam the door in our face.

[Clearmind]

Want you to believe they are vulnerable! My ex had a life long pattern of relating the way he does - he is very resourceful and has picked himself up off the floor many times.

My ex was far from helpless - I thought he was - or more to the point my care taking personality wanted him to be helpless!

Need to feel empathy to feel vulnerable.

[ucmeicu2]

moonie said:

<So WHY does a person who has no difficulty cutting you down, destroying you with the cruelest of statements & opinions, NEVER put down the sex she experienced with you?>

tailspin responded:

<Who knows what your ex says about you to others; most likely you are being devalued sexually as well.  Just because you don't think something is happening within a disordered mind doesn't mean it isn't.>

i say:

well actually a lot of us DO get feedback from friends/family/etc re what the pwBPD is saying abt us.  and in fact, didn't WE get lots of feedback abt the ex's of the pwBPD from them themself?

IOW, my xBPDgf talked a lot of trash talk to me abt most of her ex's, so i imagine i have a fairly good idea what kind of stuff she talks abt/devalues.  and i never heard her devalue any of her ex's sexually.  in many other ways YES!  but not sexually.

btw, my ex told me all the same stuff you guys are mentioning:  i was the best, she felt safest with me, was more interested/aroused/satisfied/etc w/me sexually/emotionally/spiritually/etc than w/anybody ever before.  i am curious if she/they   said/say   THAT to EVERYBODY they bed?

i think moonie is asking a very significant question here.

icu2

 

[Clearmind]

For me personally ucmeicu2 - my ex told me the same thing - sex is a way to serve and a way to regulate emotions. Your orgasm was not yours... . we were objects.

[ucmeicu2]

I think that borderlines know there's something fundamentally wrong with them and that sex is the only hook they have... that if it wasn't for sex, no one would be interested in them!

musicfan, excellent point.  i'm gonna confess, for my own healing and to own part of my part in the r/s with my xBPDgf that that thought ran through my mind many times... . if it wasn't for the sex/making out/or even just cuddling i wouldn't have stayed.  once the sex/making out/or even just cuddling  started getting spotty, i had a hard time justifying staying.  by the time she said we "could be friends" (without benefits, btw)  i was like "thanks but no thanks!  too much trouble = not enough payoff!".  i didn't say it exactly, but i thought it.  

icu2

[struggli]

My ex devalued our sex life:

-She told therapist "I feel like he's been raping me for 6 months" in regard to our sex life while living together

-She told me "sex is not part of a relationship; our love is deeper now"

-She said I should "grow up", "we're not 15", and other such things with regard to me having a sex drive.

And yet there is the contradiction of her being touchy feely with any guys who talk to her, having sex on the first date, cheating, etc.  Perhaps it's not a contradiction to her, though, since she considers it immature horseplay with no intimacy involved.  Oh, wait, it's also violent and violating.

She was sexually abused (according to her); however, after hearing I sexually abused her as well, I don't know what to believe.  I tried to be very sensitive sexually, very attuned to her facial expressions and body language because of her supposed traumatic past.  :)espite my efforts, I was just another rapist.

[mcc503764]

My ex devalued our sex life:

-She told therapist "I feel like he's been raping me for 6 months" in regard to our sex life while living together

-She told me "sex is not part of a relationship; our love is deeper now"

-She said I should "grow up", "we're not 15", and other such things with regard to me having a sex drive.

And yet there is the contradiction of her being touchy feely with any guys who talk to her, having sex on the first date, cheating, etc.  Perhaps it's not a contradiction to her, though, since she considers it immature horseplay with no intimacy involved.  Oh, wait, it's also violent and violating.

She was sexually abused (according to her); however, after hearing I sexually abused her as well, I don't know what to believe.  I tried to be very sensitive sexually, very attuned to her facial expressions and body language because of her supposed traumatic past.  :)espite my efforts, I was just another rapist.

Isnt the ability to switch so amazing?  Wonderful sex life while she is idealizing you... . once hooked, slowly starts to pull away... . leaves you wondering "what is wrong with me?"  I more than did my share to push her away and I will admit that.  I was by NO means a saint in the dynamic... .

Then we split.  She had her next lined up and was instantly able to be sexy with him... . nice feeling eh?

Then we would recycle and was now instantly able to be sexy with me... .

Wash, Rinse, Repeat... .

Then all of the jealousy that was used to hurt me throughout all of this... . talk about a vicious cycle... .

Mine was "sexually abused," but like everything else she said to me, I believe it about as far as I can throw her... . That was clearly just apart of her whole "victim" attention seeking behavior.

I had to walk away... . NC and that is how it will remain... . I deserve better as I am now able to demand better for MYSELF!

There are no limits with these people... . they will say whatever they need to say to get what they need at the moment.  They are selfish people and cannot possibly see how their actions impact other people.  They are just not capable!

MCC

[confusedhubby]

MCC, I could not agree with you more.

[ucmeicu2]

She was sexually abused (according to her); however, after hearing I sexually abused her as well, I don't know what to believe.  I tried to be very sensitive sexually, very attuned to her facial expressions and body language because of her supposed traumatic past.  :)espite my efforts, I was just another rapist.

horrifying similarity.  btw, i think i actually wrote earlier in this thread that my xBPDgf did NOT devalue me sexually but (and here's an example of being in denial?) your post gave me a jarring memory:  i was told by at least 2 of her friends/ex's that she told THEM about me the same thing she had told ME about them:  that i used/abused her sexually, pursued her relentlessly, and i was a stalker etc.  none of it true, either!  major projection on her part?  in retrospect, she's very uncomfortable with her sexuality and with people knowing she prefers women so of course she would have to lie to cover her tracks and deflect.

now i wonder if any of what she said abt her abuse was true.  i always knew at least some of it was exaggeration but now... .  maybe it was all made up!  b/c i eventually met several of the people she told me abused her and they sure seemed like nice normal people to me, not the monsters she painted them out to be.  we all had similar things to say about her whacked out behavior, however.  

so anyways yeah, she DID devalue me just not to my face!  to my face, no matter what phase/stage we were in, she always told me some version of she loved me the best, the most, i was The One she waited her whole life for, her Soulmate, etc.  at first i thought it was weird but didn't take me long to join in her magical thinking and get carried away in the fantasy.  later she accused me of living in a fantasy!    

icu2

[LynnieRe]

From my experience, it's part of a major vulnerability.  I was just a "f***buddy" off and on for a long time, not part of his real life.  Even after the sex stopped we were friendly.  We dated for a few months, he loved me, I was home, it was awesome, and then... . he started pulling away.  Broke off the "relationship" wanted to keep the friendship.  Was afraid the relationship would end, and I'd leave.  Typical BPD the only way I'd stay is if we stayed away from each other.  Then within a couple of months, BAM he's back.  Then he looks for a reason to end it.  Our friendship is tight, we went away with a bunch of people, and on the way back he's telling me to go on dating sites, texting other women"friends".  and then vowing to me that he won't cheat on me, he's gonna stay celibate.  

a) the vacation was awesome, and the more his fear grows, the more he detaches... . he's currently not taking my calls, I leave an offhand message and I get a text back.  

b) I have to remember it's nothing to do with me, he was severely emotionally, physically, and probably sexually abused as a child.  I just stay myself and centered and he drifts back.  

c)unfortunately, he is one of the most giving and attentive lovers I've ever known.  And on a superificial level, I hate when he ends that aspect, and enjoy when he starts it again.  So how BPD am I?

[mcc503764]

  So how BPD am I?

I wouldn't call yourself BPD... . you love this person and are caught up in the addiction.  I think we tend to mirror them as well at times, so I can see why you could see that, but that's really not the case... . I have questioned my own personal sanity at times as well.  You're caught up in the cycle!

They break us down, but only if we let them... . eventually you get sick and tired of being sick and tired ya know?  We all have our breaking point.  Unfortunately, you have to wait to reach it... . but once you do, and start to reclaim your life you will find yourself wondering "why in the hell did I put up with that for so long?"

MCC

[LynnieRe]

  So how BPD am I?

I wouldn't call yourself BPD... . you love this person and are caught up in the addiction.  I think we tend to mirror them as well at times, so I can see why you could see that, but that's really not the case... . I have questioned my own personal sanity at times as well.  You're caught up in the cycle!

They break us down, but only if we let them... . eventually you get sick and tired of being sick and tired ya know?  We all have our breaking point.  Unfortunately, you have to wait to reach it... . but once you do, and start to reclaim your life you will find yourself wondering "why in the hell did I put up with that for so long?"

MCC

[LynnieRe]

at MCC, I couldn't figure out how to quote, but I loved the "eventually you get sick and tired of being sick and tired" today I decided to drive by the "other" woman's house.  then I listened to a friend of mine discuss cell phone tracking, and that's when I decided enough's enough.  I have to stop my part in the cycle.  And I've been around enough to see the cycle starting.  Eventually I just get tired of it, and go back to enjoying my life.  I hate to leave him, since so many have, but I need my life to have a certain measure of peace.  So as long as I have peace, inner and outer! and I keep enough people around who are good at keeping me grounded, I can deal with the person who can't, or won't, change.

[LynnieRe]

  So how BPD am I?

I wouldn't call yourself BPD... . you love this person and are caught up in the addiction.  I think we tend to mirror them as well at times, so I can see why you could see that, but that's really not the case... . I have questioned my own personal sanity at times as well.  You're caught up in the cycle!

They break us down, but only if we let them... . eventually you get sick and tired of being sick and tired ya know?  We all have our breaking point.  Unfortunately, you have to wait to reach it... . but once you do, and start to reclaim your life you will find yourself wondering "why in the hell did I put up with that for so long?"

MCC

[LynnieRe]

  So how BPD am I?

I wouldn't call yourself BPD... . you love this person and are caught up in the addiction.  I think we tend to mirror them as well at times, so I can see why you could see that, but that's really not the case... . I have questioned my own personal sanity at times as well.  You're caught up in the cycle!

They break us down, but only if we let them... . eventually you get sick and tired of being sick and tired ya know?  We all have our breaking point.  Unfortunately, you have to wait to reach it... . but once you do, and start to reclaim your life you will find yourself wondering "why in the hell did I put up with that for so long?"

MCC

[Ironmanrises]

In round 2 of devaluation with my exUBPDgf, i stopped having sex with her as devaluation progressed.

She craved sex.

As she launched missile after missile at me in devaluation, my sexual desire for her decreased.

With each wave of missiles that i deflected, destroyed... . followed by another... . they atarted to make impact.

This further killed my sexual desire for her.

Dont get me wrong, my exUBPDgf is beautiful and sexy... . without end.

In middle of devaluation, she tells me in regards to my decrease in wanting sexual intimacy with her... . "You provide the d*ck. i provide the p*$$y."

She actually said that to me. Word for word.

I didnt provide the d*ck for her ever again after that.

Killed the rest of my sex drive.

She continued to launch missiles at me.

And then would ask, "So you dont want to ___ me?"

I wanted to scream.

With missiles underway... .

I was busy intercepting all those missiles.

I never answered her question.

5000+ missiles were inbound.

My defenses at that point were overwhelmed.

I dont ever want to be viewed as a sex object again.

[delgato]

Maybe I'm in the minority with this, but I was never a fan of the BPD sex (overall, and on most levels).


She would talk the talk (i.e., a big act), but I saw right through it & even found it amusing. And she knew it. But, she kept talking the talk, anyway. I think that frustrated her; I also think that's part of the reason why she moved onto somebody else.


I've had BPD sex, and I've had non-BPD sex. I'll take the latter any day.


I found a great quote out there which rang true to my ears:

"In the end, a Narcissistic-Borderline woman tends to make a poor lover. Even if she’s mastered a range of techniques, sex is ultimately a mechanical act devoid of true intimacy. If you view sex as simply a mechanistic, impersonal stimulus/release interaction, this may be enough. If you view sex as a medium of expression in which you share love, lust, playfulness, raw animal passion, desire, tenderness and mutual fantasies, sex with this kind of woman will never be enough. Sex becomes just another empty and dissatisfying exchange with your partner."

[mcc503764]

Maybe I'm in the minority with this, but I was never a fan of the BPD sex (overall, and on most levels).

Mine would definitely use it as a weapon against me.  She knew she could withhold and use it to manipulate it.  When she did decide to "reward" me, it was so half-a$$ of an effort that it really started to insult me and made me wonder "why are you even bothering?"

Last I checked, it wasn't covered with gold?

Just another way she would hurt me I guess... .

MCC

[Scout99]

Maybe I'm in the minority with this, but I was never a fan of the BPD sex (overall, and on most levels).


She would talk the talk (i.e., a big act), but I saw right through it & even found it amusing. And she knew it. But, she kept talking the talk, anyway. I think that frustrated her; I also think that's part of the reason why she moved onto somebody else.


I've had BPD sex, and I've had non-BPD sex. I'll take the latter any day.


I found a great quote out there which rang true to my ears:

"In the end, a Narcissistic-Borderline woman tends to make a poor lover. Even if she’s mastered a range of techniques, sex is ultimately a mechanical act devoid of true intimacy. If you view sex as simply a mechanistic, impersonal stimulus/release interaction, this may be enough. If you view sex as a medium of expression in which you share love, lust, playfulness, raw animal passion, desire, tenderness and mutual fantasies, sex with this kind of woman will never be enough. Sex becomes just another empty and dissatisfying exchange with your partner."

Just a note on the comparison with the description of a narcissistic borderline, that is a Borderline with diagnosed traits of the narcissistic personality disorder and should not be labeled on all people with BPD... . There are many differences between different people suffering from BPD alone... . In the DSM V there are at least over 150 documented differences in diagnose alone. And if you add to that traits of other PD's and or other mental illnesses then the amount is staggering... .

There are big differences in a borderline with traits of narcissistic personality disorder, that the quote is referring to compared to the selfishness displayed in the "normal" borderline disorder. Clinically all forms of selfishness can be described as different forms of narcissism, but then again narcissism can also be a healthy trait in all people... . So one have to understand the difference in pathological narcissism compared to more or less selfishness in a person... . One could say that there is a scale of narcissism that goes from healthy narcissism through different levels of selfishness and then at the end of the spectra the pathological form of narcissism. And it is what the quote is referring to.

The pathological narcissism goes way beyond lack of empathy or inability to at times understand how other people feel so to speak... . The pathological narcissist does not really feel any emotions, but is more or less socially trained in displaying emotional behavior when needed to serve a purpose. In a way there are similarities in pathological narcissism and autism spectrum when it comes to that... .

The more purer forms of borderline disorder is about overwhelming amounts of feelings as opposed to the narcissistic lack thereof... . Both stem from extreme fear of being unlovable to some extent. But the NPD has given up on love as a whole, whereas the borderline hunger for it and at the same time fears it... .

If the sexual act seems very mechanical one can therefor suspect pathological narcissistic traits are present. But as we all can see throughout this forum when this issue is discussed there are also many examples of pw BPD pretty much only being able to feel love while having sex. So the differences are many and often big from individual to individual... . And above all, not all pw borderline fit the description of a borderline diagnosed also with pathological narcissistic traits... .

Best Wishes

Scout99

[delgato]

Just a note on the comparison with the description of a narcissistic borderline, that is a Borderline with diagnosed traits of the narcissistic personality disorder and should not be labeled on all people with BPD... .

Agreed. Excellent points in your post.

There are many varieties/flavors/intensities of BPD. And this also includes comorbidity with other illnesses, of which the rate is pretty high.


The reason that quote rang so true to me, is that she was BPD, NPD & HPD. (Not to mention the drug & alcohol addiction, as well.)

It was quite a mix, with different parts showing up in different ways at different times -- or even at the same time!


Cluster B's can certainly run the gamut... .

[ucmeicu2]

"In the end, a Narcissistic-Borderline woman tends to make a poor lover. Even if she’s mastered a range of techniques, sex is ultimately a mechanical act devoid of true intimacy. If you view sex as simply a mechanistic, impersonal stimulus/release interaction, this may be enough. If you view sex as a medium of expression in which you share love, lust, playfulness, raw animal passion, desire, tenderness and mutual fantasies, sex with this kind of woman will never be enough. Sex becomes just another empty and dissatisfying exchange with your partner."

i'm not sure whether to laugh or cry... .   i'd say that "in the end" a lot of people make poor lovers!  this problem extends way beyond BPD, NPD, or any other PD.  at least in the USA, the number of married people or people in LTRs who complain about an unsatisfying sex life is staggering, personality disordered or not.

a long standing joke among comedians/men is that as soon as they're married, their wife no longer gives them oral sex.  a long standing complaint of married women is that their husbands are selfish, mechanical, uninterested and boring lovers.

for the record, i experienced higher levels of "love, lust, playfulness, raw animal passion, desire, tenderness" with my xBPDgf (with N traits) than i ever have with any other person.  isn't one of the main reasons it's so hard to detach from these people is precisely because of the intensity and satisfaction of that kind of connection?  for me it sure was/is.

icu2

[delgato]

isn't one of the main reasons it's so hard to detach from these people is precisely because of the intensity and satisfaction of that kind of connection?  for me it sure was/is.

At least for me, I think the psychological/emotional connection kept me hooked longer than the sexual connection did.


I saw through her "act" when it came to sex. The verbal stuff & the physical stuff seemed... . fake.

There was no *true* intimacy or love. I found it lacking in that sense.


Although I have no firsthand experience to compare it to, I'd imagine it was much more closer to having sex with a paid prostitute -- than to making love with a fairly healthy woman who shared a true relationship with me. (Yes, I have experience with the latter, anyway, LOL.)


Hey, you're not alone, as I've heard the opposite here... that the sex was amazing/incredible/etc.

[ucmeicu2]

At least for me, I think the psychological/emotional connection kept me hooked longer than the sexual connection did... .   I saw through her "act" when it came to sex. The verbal stuff & the physical stuff seemed... . fake... .   There was no *true* intimacy or love. I found it lacking in that sense. <cut>  I'd imagine it was much more closer to having sex with a paid prostitute... . Hey, you're not alone, as I've heard the opposite here... that the sex was amazing/incredible/etc.

hmm, i'm beginning to wonder how much "BPD" my xBPDgf was... .   or maybe she was just an unusual manifestation of BPD b/c well, ok for me i can't have great sex without there being a great emotional intimacy.  so when i say the sex with her was the best, it's only b/c the emotional intimacy allowed it to be.  it was actually much more about the intimacy than the sex.

it was very slow and tender (when appropriate) ~ wild and intense (when appropriate).  it's like the "appropriateness" had never been more spot on with anyone else b4, if that makes sense.  she looked me in the eyes. extensively.  she was (or at seemed like) she was more "present" more 'with me" than i'd ever experienced with anyone else.

that's why i am often so torn about having ended it.  i am not always 100% sure that i made the right choice.  as some others have expressed here, there is a real nagging thought that i might have ended it with the truest love of my life.

it's also very very sad and humiliating for me to think that what I experienced as the most genuine and authentic romantic connection of my entire life was in actuality the most fake and unreal of them all.  that is a mind blower!

icu2