I lack sympathy when it comes to her illness.

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Sympathy and compassion for her illness.  

I was on here for a long time in the past.  When stbex and I got back together she was in therapy and when things got whacky we went together to couples therapy.  

I've heard and read about communication and validation and all the ways to make them more comfortable and what not.  In the end I suck at it.  

I Don't feel compelled to coddle or forgive or excuse someone that is aware of their disorder

And continues to blame me.  I feel like its enabling behavior. Its counterintuitive. If We're trained to not lose ourselves and set boundaries and stand up for our beliefs and then told that in order to be in a relationship with a BPD person we much change how we do everything and There's a high likelihood that any all effort will be exhausted on deaf ears and ultimately will end you in the same end as if you hadn't tried at all... . what's the point in communicating differently to get a crappy result?  

Like I said before I lack sympathy when it comes to her illness. Not because it doesn't suck but Because She's more willing to make me change instead of changing herself.  

Its just a rant.  Comments are welcome.  And I know I'm gonna get a tongue lashing from a few.

Left

[left4good]

Sympathy and compassion for her illness.  

I was on here for a long time in the past.  When stbex and I got back together she was in therapy and when things got whacky we went together to couples therapy.  

I've heard and read about communication and validation and all the ways to make them more comfortable and what not.  In the end I suck at it.  

I Don't feel compelled to coddle or forgive or excuse someone that is aware of their disorder

And continues to blame me.  I feel like its enabling behavior. Its counterintuitive. If We're trained to not lose ourselves and set boundaries and stand up for our beliefs and then told that in order to be in a relationship with a BPD person we much change how we do everything and There's a high likelihood that any all effort will be exhausted on deaf ears and ultimately will end you in the same end as if you hadn't tried at all... . what's the point in communicating differently to get a crappy result?  

Like I said before I lack sympathy when it comes to her illness. Not because it doesn't suck but Because She's more willing to make me change instead of changing herself.  

Its just a rant.  Comments are welcome.  And I know I'm gonna get a tongue lashing from a few.

Left

[Notthesame64]

If We're trained to not lose ourselves and set boundaries and stand up for our beliefs and then told that in order to be in a relationship with a BPD person we much change how we do everything and There's a high likelihood that any all effort will be exhausted on deaf ears and ultimately will end you in the same end as if you hadn't tried at all... . what's the point in communicating differently to get a crappy result?

I'll reply to this but then I have to get back to work LOL...

I agree left4good...

I have a hard time excusing his behavior as well.  I have read a lot of articles where they say... this is how to handle a BPD, this is how to talk to a BPD... walk on eggshells, don’t say anything that will trigger ect... . and ultimately it WILL end with the same results.  I know he knew he had issues with communication, intimacy, closeness... but no matter how I changed my tone, my facial expressions, my softness my blah blah blah... . I always seen the same in him!  Why?  because they don’t want to or (say they say cant) change a damn thing about themselves... we are the heavy weights for their heavy bags... and we are toting them all over the place busting our backs to get along with them!

I think I got fleas, I'm itchy today 

[dangoldfool]

I appalled you for trying to make it work. But like you suggested. It like trying to sweeping out the tide. Its a loosing battle, from all the information I have seen. You do all the changing for them. Just not right.

[willtimeheal]

My ex BPD would tell me all the time how she made all these changes in her life for me. The big thing she did was take pills to stop her urge to drink. She was a full blown alcoholic for the four years we were together. Yes she stopped drinking but her behavior toward  me never changed. She was just a dry drunk. And when she verbally or emotionally abused me she couldn't hide behind the fact that alcohol made her do it.

She stopped drinking and quit therapy soon after. None of her behaviors changed. She would tell me she made all these changes and I was standing still. Truth was I was  in therapy and getting stronger and changing. And as I got stronger and saw her behavior and set boundaries she couldn't handle it. So she lined up a new partner and left me. 

[Suzn]

It takes time for behaviors embedded since childhood to evolve. This includes our behaviors. Everyone is raised differently. Learning to see another perspective takes practice over a long period of time. Especially someone with a mental disorder. It's hard enough for us as nons. You see this all over this board. A lot of us are very focused on our exs behaviors that we never really stepped back long enough to self assess before something else happened that distracted us. My expectations while into thea relationship were usually unreasonable. Some irrational.

[left4good]

Its a double edged sword for me.

Suzn I agree, but it doesn't mean I Don't suck at it! 

I struggle with the idea that my expectations are too high.  On one hand I knew who I was dealing with and set a standard she might not have been ready to meet or wanted to for that matter. On the other hand if I hadn't been dealing with a pwBPD those standards would Have been met naturally.  I mean heck I wasn't asking for much.  A little honesty, Don't go screwing anybody, let me drink a beer.

Left

[Suzn]

Ok so you struggle with your expectations being too high. So did I. I found I had a hard time seeing her perpective. Fast forward past this relationship. I found that I struggle with expectations with many people I have relationships with. So now what?

You are worth looking honestly within. These skills will benefit every r/s you are in. Friends, family, etc... .

[left4good]

I Don't struggle with it.  I think my expectations are fairly normal. Be a part of the relationship at least 49% of the time. Don't lie or cheat! I Don't and won't hold anyone to a standard that I can't achieve myself and I won't compromise my standards for someone unwillingly put effort in. 

I can't say she didn't try, but her way of trying and my way of trying are very different.  And her way of acting in a relationship is very different then mine.  In the end its more of a conflict of interest and That's why we are going separate ways.

Left

[causticdork]

You and I have a lot in common when it comes to our relationships.  I had a very similar epiphany when I finally decided I was finished.  I was on the Staying board here and reading all the books and using the tools, and while they weren't 100%, they did help.  When I practiced perfect SET we had shorter arguments, made up faster, and felt closer.  After a couple months though I was exhausted.  I felt like I was always "on." Like I couldn't relax and just react to situations like a normal human being.  I had to check every feeling I had before expressing it because I was so scared of triggering her.

In the end, it was the compulsive lying that finally led to me throwing in the towel, but I also spent a long time asking myself if I wanted to spend the rest of my life doing this BPD dance where I had to guard every thought that escaped from my mouth for fear of setting her off.  The answer was a resounding no. 

[willtimeheal]

Suzn,

My situation was kind of the opposite. yes I had expectations... . they were simply please treat me with respect. That I deserve to be treated like I have worth and value. Also I always looked at situations.from her perspective. She did this or said that because she grew up in an abusive environment or her husband cheated on her or she was drunk. I also made an excuse for her behavior because I saw where she was coming from. But overtime I could only be knocked down and told what a loser I was so many times before I stopped making excuses for her. I can honestly say throughout the four years together she NEVER once looked at anything through my eyes or perspective. And when I finally had enough abuse and although I knew her childhood and life was something I had never experienced or could understand it did not give her the right to treat me like garbage. All I ever expected was to be treated with respect and for her to try and see life thru my eyes and what I was struggling with. But it impossible for a.BPD because they are only concerned about their wants and needs. That's what I experienced and saw.

[Notthesame64]

You see this all over this board. A lot of us are very focused on our exs behaviors that we never really stepped back long enough to self assess before something else happened that distracted us. My expectations while into thea relationship were usually unreasonable. Some irrational.

Suzn, I couldn't of agree more!  I am extremely focused on his behavior right now, because that's the only way I can process something that consumed my life for the past 6 years... and unhealthy at that!   I never got to really process anything while I was amongst the drama because it always so foggy.  By time all said and done, I was exhausted!  Emotionally exhausted!

[Human0078]

A Year and a half after marriage, I had no explanation to her behavior with me, I was saying - She will get better, I was always the one who forgive, hug, and satisfy her emotional needs after the fight, she never came and says Sorry ~ very rare indeed !

Later - I was trying to answer this question - DO I LOVE HER ? YES I DO and that's why I continued the next SIX years and a half with ALL her manipulation, verbal abuse to me, and my family and then physical abuse ! !

Entering the ninth year, I SAID - NO WAY - This is the battle I need my dignity in it, I studied online all the possibilities of what she was doing, and finally I got to know she has BPD/Narcissism/Histrionic ! ! !

I saw death by her physical abuse, I couldn't tolerate what she was doing to me ~ her fear of abandonment ! !

Like what you said Left4good, no sympathy because after all what you have she was always blaming you ---- YES ... . For me, the first 6 months of this year, we both forced each other to go to therapist, she refused the change, she pretends she is changing and blaming me because she thinks she is the Queen one and I am the sick one, but I couldn't tolerate to be her victim ! Then we separated by June, we lived apart, and she continued fighting me by phone, until that day when she left the Country taking my daughter without my consent ! ! I am f***d up now, and trying to get healed from the wounds I had the last 9 years of marriage, I loved her so much, but I do feel sympathy, because I failed in this cause, I tried my best with her, but I was close to die because of her abuse and I was always shutting up my mouth fearing scandals !

Long story buddy !

[left4good]

I need to clarify.  I DO struggle with her not meeting my expectations. I do NOT struggle with what those expectations are. I won't waiver on that!

Left

[DreamGirl]

You are a stubborn soul, left4good.

I get what you're saying. It's hard being in a relationship that isn't 50/50. You were depositing quarters and she was deposting pennies. It's not fair and in retrospect, it won't work.

From the five stages of detachment:

Breakdown your feelings - try to unmask them. Our anger may really be fear. Feelings of disrespect may really be a fragile ego. Start by probing the feelings and the thoughts that drive the desire or grief or hopelessness in your consciousness, perhaps naming it to yourself (e... g., fear, weakness, disappointment, false hope, etc), and gradually come to understand who you are, who you have been. Explore the energy in the feelings. As you go deeper into this energy, its knotty, sticky quality will start to dissolve—for the time being.

Are you usually a pretty sympathetic guy? Empathetic to others pain?

Do you usually stand up for yourself and what you believe in?

Did you compromise this in your relationship? Are you compromising it now?

What was the pay off you were expecting from the compromise? (if you did in the relationship)

It's hard to have compassion/empathy/sympathy when someone has hurt us. I think you're getting ahead of yourself as you begin the process of peeling away the layers of your getting (back) into the relationship. Having sympathy for her isn't the same as accepting that she is aware of her disorder, and won't get help for herself.

Is the no sympathy for her (illness)... . maybe because she wasn't willing to get help for you?

[bpdspell]

I personally feel that "feeling sympathy" for them is something that comes way down the line in terms of healing. Sympathy comes at the back end.

If you are still emotionally attached feeling sympathy for them is not where our focus should be. Our focus should be on us and peeling back the layers of the toxic dance and understanding our part in it so that we don't repeat the same error twice.

There are many on here who believe that BPD is bogus. That mental illness is an excuse for treachery. That our ex's simply like to prey on the kindness of others and treat people like yesterdays' trash but the disease of BPD and narcissism are real as my left foot.

Sympathy won't come when were in the midst of genuine heartbreak and picking of the pieces of our shattered devastation. There's a lot to unpack emotionally before we can feel genuine compassion, forgiveness and ultimately sympathy for the immense cycle of pain that those with BPD are trapped in.

I used to confuse self-sacrifice with sympathy for my BPDexbf. They're not mutually exclusive.

In my mind if I treated my ex the way I wanted to be treated he'd mirror me and I'd have my happily ever after. I have always be the rescuer and the strong one in my family. I was always the one who fixed, repaired and neglected my base needs because I was conditioned by my mom to be that way. My conditioned need to take care of GROWN adults and to be validated by others needed to be corrected and the experience with my ex was the last straw. It was time for me to finally look in my own mirror and fix the things that were broken inside of me.

Our sympathy cannot heal their BPD. It'll only increase your frustration and bring you to your wits end because playing nice does not change the fact that they have been living with this disorder way before we came into the picture. Playing nice only creates room for more exploitation and painful self-sacrifice.

Sympathy and Compassion have only recently entered my emotional landscape when it comes to my ex. I'm two years out and while I'm not 100 % indifferent I can truly see how devastating it must be to live with BPD.

Spell

[seeking balance]

I think my expectations are fairly normal. Be a part of the relationship at least 49% of the time. Don't lie or cheat! I Don't and won't hold anyone to a standard that I can't achieve myself and I won't compromise my standards for someone unwillingly put effort in. 

Left

Left - your expectations sound reasonable to me and most of us here.

Unfortunately, if yours (and mine actually too) used lying and cheating as a means to cope with intense emotions rather than a healthier means - well, we are going to be disappointed every time. 

I am not cut out to be with someone who cannot be rational, and from the sounds of it - neither are you.  BPD is what it is - we can hate it, but we don't get to really change it.

No need to fake feeling sympathy - be angry if that is where you need to be.

Best,

SB

[left4good]

Dreamgirl... .

I like to think of myself as a nice well worn piece of leather.  Waterproof and weatherproof and capable of keeping everything inside protected.  Stubborn sounds so harsh!

SB... .

I understand what You're saying.  I'm not so angry this time. When I found this place the first time... . yowsers I was beside myself.  Somewhere deep inside of me knew this was going to be the outcome either because of her or because of me.  If I had to measure its more me.  I just Don't have and maybe Don't want what it takes to understand her completely.  I know who She is by some criteria in a book or by what She's told me but I Don't know her.  I feel horrible for the why's of her disorder and have expressed that but I Don't feel bad for things remaining the same after she admitted to herself what was going on and what the consequences would be if the actions didn't change.

I have to go to work everyday in order to feed my kids.  If I Don't we Don't eat.  That's how I liken it to her.  Bpd is all the time and if She's not working towards being healthy she loses her family. Which coincidentally is the one thing she fears most.

If this is gibberish, I'm on my phone!

Left

[seeking balance]

I just Don't have and maybe Don't want what it takes to understand her completely.  I know who She is by some criteria in a book or by what She's told me but I Don't know her.  I feel horrible for the why's of her disorder and have expressed that but I Don't feel bad for things remaining the same after she admitted to herself what was going on and what the consequences would be if the actions didn't change.

I understand this 100%.  There was a line crossed a final time and I had to be done.  Look, if it were my child, I would work hard with all the tools - but as a chosen relationship, I just couldn't and didn't want all the time, patience and understanding required. Reality, my ex self-sabotaged (her exact words) one time too many and I just needed her away from me even if I still loved her.

I had to forgive myself for this - it is ok to have enough and walk away... . it really is.

[Notthesame64]

There are many on here who believe that BPD is bogus. That mental illness is an excuse for treachery. That our ex's simply like to prey on the kindness of others and treat people like yesterdays' trash but the disease of BPD and narcissism are real as my left foot.

Yes I agree Bpdspell, I work in the psychology field working with vets that have all types of psychological issues.  Bpd,  major depression severe, schizophrenia, bipolar, and worse suicidal ideations... Some from war, some from childhood, some from every day living... I read in their own words what it's like to have and live with these issues.  

However for myself... which i consider my self a pretty level headed person that understands psychology and how medication, diseases and disorders interact with our brains... I will always have a hard time believing that what I shared with the man i loved, intentionally went out to lose the woman he loved, move to a different state to be with her, took out some of his retirement to do so all because he wanted to prey on me... of course not!  Mental illness is a real disease!   My ex had it along with MS which isn't a good combination... and now I have to come to terms with... . it's over

[Suzn]

I need to clarify.  I DO struggle with her not meeting my expectations.

Ok, I get it. So what does this feel like, this struggle? It's good you can identify this. Identify the emotion behind it. Work through that emotion. It's yours.

We can co ruminate about war stories all day. I prefer to work to detach because I've found this leads to real freedom. Co rumination keeps you stuck right where you left off. If you are still telling war stories, you're still attached. That's ok, we all detach on a different time frame.

Moving on and detaching are two different things. Those emotions lay just beneath the surface, they have no time limit, they will patiently wait for you. And they will show themselves in time. Ever been frustrated with someone and jump on someone else who really didn't deserve it? Kinda works like that. 

[left4good]

Its not something I'm really ruminating over.  I just realize I do not sympathize with her situation anymore.

Left

[Suzn]

Co rumination is different than ruminating left.

Co-rumination definitely brings people closer together, but it can also feed resentment and contribute to emotional difficulties, such as anxiety or depression.

The term researchers use is “co-rumination” to describe frequently or obsessively discussing the same problem. The behavior is typical among teens — Why didn’t he call? Should I break up with him? And, psychologists say, it has intensified significantly with e-mail, text messaging, instant messaging and Facebook. And in certain cases it can spin into a potentially contagious and unhealthy emotional angst, experts say.

www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/fashion/11talk.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

[left4good]

You know what I need?

Seeking balance can you post 2010's ding dong story?

[left4good]

Suzn I get that. Honestly, I didn't think me admitting that I lack sympathy was trading war stories.  At the very most I was driving and got that holy crap moment and sent it on. 

I didn't expose any of our sorded past (its in my post history).  I'm in a noticeably different place then I was last time I was here albeit for the same reason.

Left

[seeking balance]

You know what I need?

Seeking balance can you post 2010's ding dong story?

sure - it is a classic from 2010!


If I were a lucky person he would not engage me in a conversation, but I am not usually so lucky.

What does luck have to do with intent? Nothing. What does luck have to do with willpower? Nothing. If it is your intention to engage him in conversation, luck (or bad luck as it appears) is only an excuse to continue dialogue with a person that hurt you.

Having to be in the same place with him is nothing less than having to go grocery shopping while you're on a diet. You dont go into a supermarket and find yourself in the cookies and candy aisle because you're unlucky.  You might want to tempt fate and walk the aisle to prove something to yourself- but for the most part- that's setting yourself up in order to fail- and it's your addictive brain talking *instead* of your rational reason. The addictive brain loves to blame bad decisions on "luck."

If you happen down that cookie/candy aisle without thought, and then pick up a box of Hostess *Ding Dongs* just to sniff them- you'll find out pretty quickly that one sniff leads to a touch, and a touch leads to a read of the label, then... . the Ding Dong gets thrown into the cart. What's it going to hurt? Certainly the Ding Dong wants this, right? The Ding Dong says, "why hello, you've obviously been thinking about me. You obviously care. And I care too- I care that I have you right where I want. What a coincidence you walked down this aisle. To see me? Now, touch me, tell me how you like my new bald headed snowball wrapper- ssssh- don't speak- take me Home... . "

Addictive thought doesn't want you to think about the first defense (dont go down the aisle) BUT if you find yourself in the aisle, do not loiter- do not make small talk. Get away- do your business shopping and LEAVE. Do not sniff the Ding Dong, do not touch the Ding Dong and do not read the label to figure out if Ding Dong's ingredients are healthy. They are not. He is a Ding Dong. A ding dong is only empty calories- and if you take a bite you will get a sugar high only to crash and burn later with nothing to show for it.

Put the Ding Dong Down.

[emily13]

You and I have a lot in common when it comes to our relationships.  I had a very similar epiphany when I finally decided I was finished.  I was on the Staying board here and reading all the books and using the tools, and while they weren't 100%, they did help.  When I practiced perfect SET we had shorter arguments, made up faster, and felt closer.  After a couple months though I was exhausted.  I felt like I was always "on." Like I couldn't relax and just react to situations like a normal human being.  I had to check every feeling I had before expressing it because I was so scared of triggering her.

In the end, it was the compulsive lying that finally led to me throwing in the towel, but I also spent a long time asking myself if I wanted to spend the rest of my life doing this BPD dance where I had to guard every thought that escaped from my mouth for fear of setting her off.  The answer was a resounding no. 

Hi.

My experience is similar. After 6 years of doing the BPD dance and walking on eggshells, I finally decided I have no interest in spending the rest of my life "dancing" around someone else's needs, ignoring my own, and being exhausted. I am 55 years old and life is too short. I would rather live happily and peacefully solo.

Mind you I have only recently started NC and he is of course attempting to revive this hopeless excuse for a relationship using all the typical techniques - pleading, attacking, begging, negotiating, threatening ("please", "I will change", "you will regret this", "I love you", "I will take you down", blah blah blah). And, for me as well the compulsive (and stupidly inept) lying was a huge conflict between us. I felt like I was dealing with a 5 year old.

I have started to look for my own therapist and have a first consultation appointment next week.

NC is currently working only because I agreed to a face to face meeting over the weekend (in a public place). Otherwise he would be harassing me via phone, text and email, day and night. (He is like a vampire, sleeps in the day only.) He is insisting on "talking" before it is finally over. Fine. He is not going to like what I have to say. 6 years of all words and zero action on his part is more than enough for me. No one asks to have a mental illness, but once they find out they have one and do absolutely nothing to help themselves, instead requiring everyone around them to rescue them endlessly, well... . I have no interest. Does not mean I lack sympathy. I simply choose to sympathize/empathize from a (far) distance.

I am not in love with him anymore. It's that simple.

Hugs and good luck to you.

]

[mitchell16]

I to have trouble sympathize with her BPD. But then again i do. When i see her face in pain it touches my heart and I do wish I could make it all better. But i relize that I cant I tried. But at times my anger overrides me sympathy for her, because she becomes so cruel and mean. Its hard not to hold her responsible. What makes it even harder is mine is a therapist and knows what is wrong with her but will shop around to co workers for the diagnoses she wants. Instead of BPD its abondement disorder etc. But I dont hold them responsible becuase she hides the real her easy and they only see what she wants them to see. She told me once I dont know why I act the way I do I onnly act this way with you. She is right. When she said that I said why dont you think about that real hard for a moment and you might find your answer. I know becasue im a trigger for her. Her own words is that none of the other people matter to her. So they are not a trigger, she only pretends to have a love for them.

So I have mixed feelings about it. one moment i feel sorry for her and wish I could make it all better but on teh other hand I coulod careless and she gets deserves eveythinig she gets in life, because she wont get help.

[left4good]

I love that ding dong post!


Thanks for all of the replies!  Just me thinking out loud and offering up my perspective of a situation.

Left

[Just Stumbling Along]

I don't have sympathy.  I have anger, resentment, sometimes I hate her.  Married almost 20 years.  Didn't find out about the uBPD until we had separated.  I was a caretaker, enabler, and lied to myself all that time.  Don't think I had unrealistic expectations (maybe they were for a pwBPD).  Basically two: Don't Cheat, Don't Lie. All of the chaos, the impulsive behavior, rages, gaslighting, projection, even the domestic violence toward me doesn't make me angry.  The whole time, I tried to work with her about all of that.  I don't like it.  Wish I hadn't put up with it for so long.  But I am willing to allow that maybe she really can't help herself.  Maybe she is so emotionally uncontrolled that she just can't be irritated; it's calm to enraged in 5.2 seconds.  I can accept all of that.

What I can't accept, what fills me with anger is the constant cheating and lying.  Flirting with men (and women) right in front of me.  "Oh, I'm just talking.  I'm kidding"  Constantly cheating from the time we met until the final curtain.  I never knew and never walked in on her, but it was all there.  She just told me that was not happening and she was so sincere.  Besides, She would never cheat or lie to me, She told me so, repeatedly.  While we were dating, I talked about that I could not be in a relationship with someone who cheated and lied.  She went to great lengths to assure me that she would NEVER do anything like that.  She was cheating then and lying about it.  If she knows that she does that.  If she knows that she has always needed to have sex with person after person; She knows that any serious relationship she had been in before, she cheated and had many others on the side.  She knows that she has always lied about that.  She lied and told me that she had never done that.  She just wasn't that kind of person.  If she knows that that is what she has to do to get through life, OK.  No judgement, go do what you need to do, best wishes.

But don't deceive me and invalidate my ability to make a choice of how to live my life.  Don't involve me in your sexual circus.

BPD is not a disorder where she suddenly becomes conscious and "how did I get in this man's bed, where are my clothes, what happened?"  She chose to contact and seduce these people, she chose to get in the car, she chose to continue driving, she chose to go in, she chose to engage in sex, she knows that we were married, and she chose to come home and deceive me and she chose to do that over and over.

She had a choice to cheat or not, or tell me to go away.  That I am angry about and don't excuse because she has a disorder.

Sorry this rant is so long and I expect to take a caning for it.     

[left4good]

No caning here.  I've been in those shoes.

Its gets better, stay strong!

Left