BPD avoidance

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I'm struggling with something about my estranged uBPDw. I know if a BPD leaves after painting you black that they go NC.

I feel like my uBPDw avoids me like the plague and the only contact that I have with her is when I have to go and pick up the kids and that's about it. It's like pulling teeth to get anything done with her regarding the kids.

Many times I feel like there's a discomfort when my physical presence is around her and I get the sense that it could be shame and guilt for the things that she did to me? Like cheating and having an affair?

Why the avoidance? Is it literal out of sight out of mind and can't be around you in the same space?

[Mutt]

I'm struggling with something about my estranged uBPDw. I know if a BPD leaves after painting you black that they go NC.

I feel like my uBPDw avoids me like the plague and the only contact that I have with her is when I have to go and pick up the kids and that's about it. It's like pulling teeth to get anything done with her regarding the kids.

Many times I feel like there's a discomfort when my physical presence is around her and I get the sense that it could be shame and guilt for the things that she did to me? Like cheating and having an affair?

Why the avoidance? Is it literal out of sight out of mind and can't be around you in the same space?

[Gaslit]

Imagine if you accidentally cut somebody's arm off, and you had to see them every single day, without their arm. How would you feel?

I'm guessing that's where she is at.

If you don't want her back, and you don't care other than to get her to be more "normal," tell her in all fake honestly that you believe she is a good person. And watch the 180. Just don't re-engage thereafter.

 

[Aussie0zborn]

Once you have been painted black and THEY make the decision it's all over. This is payback time for not going with her flow and giving her the dream life she believes she is entitled to. She has probably acted badly and is now afraid. They are real cowards when caught out. Its best to maintain this and don't make any effort to comfort her as it keeps a good distance between you.

You should consider yourself lucky that she is avoiding you. Understanding how their minds work is the key to not losing sleep over this and being able to move on. Good luck.

[Surnia]

Hi Mutt

So sorry to hear about your struggles.

I know if a BPD leaves after painting you black that they go NC.

Some are doing this, some not. There is no rule about it.

I agree with you about avoiding and shame/guilt. Can you look at it as something from her? That it has not so much to do with you?

[Mutt]

No I don't want her back. Keep in mind I'm still learning so I may be off on the concept. Her and I recycled many times in our relationship, almost 7 times. Been there done that with her. The first bit of the recycling was good but it would quickly get to denegration and rage. Every recycle felt like it was more intense and it felt like it would take a shorter span of time for her to get to the devaluation end of it.

Together for 8. Starting 2 years ago, I started setting boundaries when I never had any, (didn't know about BPD then, just suspected I had an issue) and it started with me telling her that I had enough of belittling and fighting in front of the kids, family and friends. It got worse when I set boundaries and but I still stuck to them. A part of me knew that I was going to lose myself if I gave into her strange logic. I went against the flow and everything went south from there. Painted black in October and she left this year.

I did tell her that I do think she is a good person despite everything. Yup, she did a 180. In my eyes, despite the illness, at the core is a.good person. But, I'm not going to get pulled into the whirlpool. From now until court is resolved with custody, If I can make concessions with the kids. I'll do anything that I can. I'm not doing this to get back together. After this break-up (I don't think she ever got back with anyone from her past, she just moved quickly to the next person. I'm her first husband) I don't think she's going to try to re-engage our marriage. She's really done from what I can tell. She'll seek someone else I believe while she is in her current relationship, but she won't be seeking me.

My anger from the dissolution of my marriage is for me to own. Anger is the mask for pain. I'll deal with my pain on my own she deals with pain differently, she dealt with it by bedding another man and starting a new relationship. But that doesn't mean that she won't be accountable for her actions with how she put herself in front of the kids and exposed the kids way to early and innappriopriately, but that's for a judge to decide.  I can see her shame and guilt, it's disheartening that for the short spans of time that the kids and myself can see a strange awkwardness and avoidance in general.  But if it's too hard with the shame and guilt and I agree it's not about me. C'est la vie. That's why I stay commited to one person because I don't want to feel that way.  To each their own, that's the way I see it.

[Trick1004]

Mutt,

I did want to comment on your observation that once you started setting boundaries and sticking to them the r/s started to unravel. I had a similar experience with my ex. I didn't realize while I was doing it but during the last couple of months before she walked out I had reached the limits of the way I was being treated and began throwing up boundaries and not tolerating her behavior and the way she treated me. I am convinced that she picked up on it, saw I wasn't going to put up with her behavior anymore, and decided she had to walk out on me before I had the chance to.

For a couple weeks post-breakup I was continually questioning whether I was unreasonable. Enough time has past that I know I wasn't, that I was stuck in r/s with an emotionally stunted person, and have stopped trying to understand what was and might be going on in her mind. I have turned that energy towards looking at myself to figure out why I allowed things to progress as they did.

[Mutt]

Trick1004,

Boundaries was one catalyst in her leaving the marriage. Another one was fear of abandonment I believe. A year after I set boundaries up. I threatened her with divorce in a dead serious delivery. She threatened me with it on several occasions and I did as well. I had never taken her seriously for it.

She had this pattern every year. Starting in the month of Oct and until the end of the year, she gets worse as the months close until the end of the year. She gets more provacative, emotionally dysregulated, and rages more frequently. She would project each and every year and say "Mutt you get like this every year!"

A year after I put up the boundaries, I had had enough during one of her rages. I can't remember what it was. The way I looked, the tone in my voice. I told her I was leaving her. Her grandfather had passed away the month before (yes I was not sensitive but I'm talking about 7 years of a dysfunctional, emotionally abusive relationship) We dance the usual dance. She raged, I was fighting back and I said that's it I'm done. I'm finally going to leave you.

She went upstairs and I went to sleep on the couch. She came downstairs and was over me and I'll never forget the look. Deeply sad, disassociated and said "Please don't leave me, my grandfather just died" I told her I've had enough. That was another mistake. I bluffed, but she started planning at that point on leaving me and started her search for another man. At the time, I thought, she has 4 kids?, who's going to take her? This guy is a loser. I've seen him. I'm an attractive guy. He has a face only a mother can love. He looks like a shell of a man. Not confident.

I was naïve, I didn't seek help when I knew there was a problem and ignored all the red flags. But I don't know even if I had the proper tools to make it succeed.

[bondafc]

The really difficult thing for me to grasp was, there is no "succeed" in this relationship.

It's like trying to hold water in your hands, it will find a way to leak out... .

If you did this, they would do that... .

They are hard-wired to fail.

She has never had a successful relationship with a man... . never.

Contrast your relationship with your Ex to this...

www.askmen.com/top_10/dating_top_ten_60/74_dating_list.html

This has become my new bench-mark. 

Nothing less will do.

Respect.

[snappafcw]

This list is amazing and basically shows what i missed out on.

[Mutt]

She wants to move 600km with the kids away from me. I'm going to family court next week. She said she wants to move because she can't stand seeing me. This is for the kids and If something as simply saying "I think your a good person" makes her feel less shame/guilt and she can tolerate being around me and not wanting to run away, I'll do it.

[Iamdizzy]

Why the avoidance? Is it literal out of sight out of mind and can't be around you in the same space?

Mutt from all the reading I've done so far, I can infer that they do this for several reasons:

1.- They are undeveloped emotionally immature kids deep down inside. The best way to "forget' about someone that you've caused harm to is to mitigate your own shame by making them the devil reincarnated.

As nons, when we hurt others we love, we sometimes avoid them because we feel an immense amount of shame. Until we get the courage to apologize. A BPD will not apologize but rather say horrible things about you to a point that they actually believe their own BS.

2. Coupled with being painted black, they usually and unfortuanatly have someone already lined up. This will shift their attention to their new toy. Again, this is to ease their intenral pain.

3. You got to see the 'real' them. In my case, 90% of the people my BPDex knew did not TRULY know her. She would feed them bits and pieces of information. No one really knew what happened behind closed doors. You have the ability to call them out on their BS, expose them.  Of course, don't act on it because it's a futile effort. But I think that if my BPD ex came and contacted me, she would know that I can see through her bull___.

Best of luck! Post anytime we are all here to help one another.

[Mutt]

Why the avoidance? Is it literal out of sight out of mind and can't be around you in the same space?

Mutt from all the reading I've done so far, I can infer that they do this for several reasons:

1.- They are undeveloped emotionally immature kids deep down inside. The best way to "forget' about someone that you've caused harm to is to mitigate your own shame by making them the devil reincarnated.

As nons, when we hurt others we love, we sometimes avoid them because we feel an immense amount of shame. Until we get the courage to apologize. A BPD will not apologize but rather say horrible things about you to a point that they actually believe their own BS.

2. Coupled with being painted black, they usually and unfortuanatly have someone already lined up. This will shift their attention to their new toy. Again, this is to ease their internal pain.

3. You got to see the 'real' them. In my case, 90% of the people my BPDex knew did not TRULY know her. She would feed them bits and pieces of information. No one really knew what happened behind closed doors. You have the ability to call them out on their BS, expose them.  Of course, don't act on it because it's a futile effort. But I think that if my BPD ex came and contacted me, she would know that I can see through her bull___.

Best of luck! Post anytime we are all here to help one another.

Thanks Iamdizzy for your post. It's making more sense to me.

I've already been replaced before she left. I have made the mistake and said she was a borderline, only to trigger her or I get the silent treatment. Anything that I called her out for, as strange and illogical as the excuses are like the affair. "But I told you I was leaving you in October, it's not an affair!" or "But we're legally separated! I'm not your f------ wife!" As if being separated now erases sins of the past. We were still co-habitating until Feb 21st, she painted me black in Oct, but I can confirm from phone records she was with him in January and the nights she wasn't coming home guaranteed it was with POSOM. Her excuses are just that. She distorts me and others with nonsense reasons. Even POSOM is distorted. "But she left you in January and that's when I started seeing her!". Dude, we were still in the same bed under my roof and we were still doing domestic chores for each other etc... . while she was having overnight visits with you and you know this.

I guess in a way, I'm trying to do some damage control by not telling her she is BPD. It triggers her or she simply ignores it. It is futile. Big mistake on my part by acting out of anger and telling her. But I clearly see through all of her bs now and whereas 6 months ago, I was still in that fog. She kicked me out on several occasions and we were separated before. She would start calling me to come back home about a week after I left. This. She hasn't painted me black like this before and I'm starting to sense that it may be for a very very long time. She collapsed into herself in this relationship and couldn't continue due to her dysfunction.

[Iamdizzy]

Mutt any time,

Read my post on "anyone hear about them getting better with their new partner"

A thing that I've feared since I left her but the responses I got were extremely helpful. If she is BPD I don't think she will be better with the new guy.

The last words I told my BPDex in anger and frustration was "you need to find god and a psychiatrist" and that's when I became blacker than tar to her. I like to believe it's because I told her something that she has been supressing deep down inside and does not want to acknowledge.

Trying to tell them they have BPD or all their offenses and wacky behavior is the epitome of futile. There is no point.

I was comtemplating telling my BPDex she has BPD whenever she would contact me but she could either go crazy try some suicidal nonsense and blame it on me or she could just mitigate her actions and twist logical beyond belief and still blame me. Bottom line is, YOU WILL NEVER WIN, YOU WILL NEVER GET THROUGH THEM and if you do, that moment on clarity will soon be engulfed by desperate tactics they develop to avoid looking at themselves.

[Mutt]

Mutt any time,

Read my post on "anyone hear about them getting better with their new partner"

A thing that I've feared since I left her but the responses I got were extremely helpful. If she is BPD I don't think she will be better with the new guy.

The last words I told my BPDex in anger and frustration was "you need to find god and a psychiatrist" and that's when I became blacker than tar to her. I like to believe it's because I told her something that she has been supressing deep down inside and does not want to acknowledge.

Trying to tell them they have BPD or all their offenses and wacky behavior is the epitome of futile. There is no point.

I was comtemplating telling my BPDex she has BPD whenever she would contact me but she could either go crazy try some suicidal nonsense and blame it on me or she could just mitigate her actions and twist logical beyond belief and still blame me. Bottom line is, YOU WILL NEVER WIN, YOU WILL NEVER GET THROUGH THEM and if you do, that moment on clarity will soon be engulfed by desperate tactics they develop to avoid looking at themselves.

I found your thread and thanks again https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=207697.msg12299975;topicseen Thanks for the re-assurance with never getting through to them. I keep faltering with that, but I have made some progress in the last couple of weeks. I went against the grain the last time and I lost. There's no point. It took me an extremely long time to get here.

As far as her getting better with the next guy? She's in deep denial. She has a narcissistic family, so no support there and I have encountered him face to face when he had my kids. He looks like a shell of a man and looks like he's never had a girlfriend in his life. Who knows how long it will last? No one can tell the future but his fate will be the same as mine at some point. It's the kids I feel bad about. Being exposed to emotional abuse and boyfriend after boyfriend from here on. At least I was together with my wife for 8 years and it should help my D7. I pray by the time she is a teen she will want to live with me and same with my sons.

She's undiagnosed. She meets 6 of the 9 criteria for BPD. I'm not reading into things when I share the same stories as other people on this board and everything I've researched in books and on the internet I've lived.

Idealization? Check.

Horror stories of all of her ex's? Check.

Can't do anything right? Check.

Blamed for everything? Check.

Circular arguments and rage? Triple Check.

Denigration? Probably her best skill. Check.

Lying, lots of it? Check.

Controlling? Check.

Impulsiveness? Oh boy. Check.

Idealization and Devaluation in a span of a few hours? Check.

Projection? Oh boy again. All of the time.

Distortion, she would say something that kinda made sense, she may agree with me, but later would change what she said into something completely different? Check.

I deeply cared for her and did so much for her, I'm the devil now? Check.

Smear campaign after she left to her family and friends? I was an alcoholic (would come home drunk after work by her accord, never happened) physically abusive to her, emotionally abusive to her and the kids, financially abusive. Check.

Would barely have sex in the last few years to none in the last 2. Started detaching and masturbating and telling me how she was h**** all of the time but had pains or wasn't in the mood. Told everyone after she left that I denied her sex? (hmmm she's the one that's in control with sex, really) Triple Check.

Did I feel like I was going nuts and she was starting to even convince me I was going nuts? Check.

It goes on and on and on.

[Trick1004]

Mutt,

Just a bit more background I want to share with you the night she told me she wanted out.

I got home from work and she was downstairs in our bedroom. Went down to say "babe how was your day" and that is when she told me she was going to move back home with her parents. I knew this wasn't good and it totally caught me out of the blue. I asked her why? Was it because she didn't want our r/s anymore? She said ya and started crying while I just stood there listening for awhile while my heart was being ripped out.

I was able to handle it up to the point where she said she wanted to keep living with me until our lease was up at the end of the following month. I had to walk away at that point. I sat upstairs for a bit and then proceeded to start drinking (this is a weakness of mine).

Anyway, after a couple of hours she came up and I just looked her in the eye and said "do you really think I have anything to say to you right now?" No response, she went back downstairs and I haven't seen or talked to her since then, and it's approaching 13 weeks now. We have exchanged emails, texts and letters, but nothing on her part owning up to her actions during the breakup or anything closely resembling any sort of appreciation of what I've done for her the past four years.

What I'm getting at she hit a breaking point in me, maybe similar to what yours reached in you. No one deserves to live in some kind of limbo r/s knowing your partner wants out and is going to be doing whatever the hell she wants while still wanting to live with you. That, in my mind was the ultimate break and most disrespected I've ever felt in my life.

I did cover the rent for the last month and let her move her stuff out as long as I was at work. She tried to get me to see her, I didn't. Something about it just crossed a line for me. 

[Mutt]

Anyway, after a couple of hours she came up and I just looked her in the eye and said "do you really think I have anything to say to you right now?" No response, she went back downstairs and I haven't seen or talked to her since then, and it's approaching 13 weeks now. We have exchanged emails, texts and letters, but nothing on her part owning up to her actions during the breakup or anything closely resembling any sort of appreciation of what I've done for her the past four years.

What I'm getting at she hit a breaking point in me, maybe similar to what yours reached in you. No one deserves to live in some kind of limbo r/s knowing your partner wants out and is going to be doing whatever the hell she wants while still wanting to live with you. That, in my mind was the ultimate break and most disrespected I've ever felt in my life.

Trick1004,

Sorry I didn't reply sooner. Big BPD meltdown today and it's better to explain in the family law boards. We share some similiraties.

I'll start with appreciation. I've done a lot for her in 8 years. I'm not perfect. No one is in a r/s. I own up to my part.  An example for myself would be that she calls me financially abusive. I paid for rent for 8 years, I paid for her plane ticket to a family reunion a couple of months before she told me she was going to leave me. A couple of weeks before that I took out a 3500 hundred loan to put on a credit card that she said 'kept calling and I need to close the card'. But she called me financially abusive because I would remind her to look at the bank balance before going out shopping to make sure we had enough in our budget.

After she moved out. She didn't apologize about having a POSOM. Didn't really deal with anything to be honest. She said she didn't want to talk about the marriage or the relationship and she went no contact of sorts. Controlling and abusive if you ask me. She didn't want to do any papers for a legal separation and it was difficult to get a response back by phone or e-mail for the kids. I tried to go by the book because I still felt something for her, sympathy? I didn't want to hurt my wife or I was trying to be amicable. I set up civil mediation, she cancelled that. I set up familiy mediation to get the kids sorted out, she cancelled that, then it was gloves off on my part. Courts.

I guess what I'm trying to say is. It's difficult to accept in some ways and very painful to the heart. When you communicate verbally, by e-mail, text and phone for years on end. All of sudden. POOF. They're gone or extremely difficult to try to come to the middle to work on important things.

Oct is when she said she was going to leave me and I begged her to stay for the holidays and the kids birthdays shortly thereafter, up to January. Talk about living in The Twilight Zone. I paid for everything like I always did. She was going out with POSOM (had my suspicions, asked her several times and was laughed that this was about another man) while living with me for 4 1/2 months. She was asking me to go out with her too on dates which I thought it was weird. Really? Your leaving me but you want to go to the movies like we're a couple? The end is near, no thanks. She said I was abusive because of I was giving her the silent treatment (she was giving it to me), I was barely talking to her because I was on auto-pilot and could not control anything and knew that soon, family life was done. The crazy excuses about POSOM never stop. "But I asked YOU if you wanted to go out that's why I had to make some friends!". It's really a laundry list of nonesensical b------- if you ask me.

Trick1004. I feel a lot of things right now. Even after telling her she was a good person ( I do believe it) it's so painful being treated like an old pair of shoes and thrown in the trash bin. Painted black to never come back after we had so much time together. Today was something else and it's more difficult now, because I see the illness as clear as day.

It hurts now how she put herself in front of everyone like she is entitled and the blatant disregard to the kids emotional needs or their right to see their parent. She even told me today that her and the kids are in a healthy relationship with POSOM and that I'm jealous. Uh, I'll save that one for court. Everything that I have done over the entire relationship (give credit where credit is due, she did her lion's share as well in a lot of depts, kudos for that) and the constant roadblocks just to be able to see my kids, POSOM spends more time with them. I'm starting to feel anxiety. Like there is more weight on me now than when I was in the fog. But I know what you mean Trick1004.

It's so hard to be turned off like a light switch like the last 8 years like it was nothing and to be demonized with accusations. Sorry all for the long rant, this is a place that understands the madness.

[Trick1004]

Mutt,

I can't imagine how much more difficult it must be with a marriage and kids involved.

The whole lack of any compassion, appreciation, and owning up to her actions in the r/s I believe is the toughest thing I've had to deal with. I almost feel like she is holding it over my head to get me to meet and talk.

Over the past couple of days I've felt close to getting to the tipping point where I just don't care anymore, but who knows if she contacts me.

Thanks for the response and lets all keep moving forward!

[Mutt]

Mutt,

I can't imagine how much more difficult it must be with a marriage and kids involved.

The whole lack of any compassion, appreciation, and owning up to her actions in the r/s I believe is the toughest thing I've had to deal with. I almost feel like she is holding it over my head to get me to meet and talk.

Over the past couple of days I've felt close to getting to the tipping point where I just don't care anymore, but who knows if she contacts me.

Thanks for the response and lets all keep moving forward!

Trick1004,

It's extremely difficult yes. I confirmed my suspicions that her affair started 14 months ago (separated for 6) where she said it wasn't an affair but started seeing him 8 months ago. She was also pregnant from POSOM last summer while we were living together. Assume a BPD lies until you confirm the truth I read somewhere. I've reached my breaking point with her this week. I'm done. I'm going hard minimal contact with her. I started yesterday.

The hard part with the kids is the smear campaign. Telling mutual friends that I was a deadbeat dad when I was with her and emotionally abusive with the kids. I'm none of those things. It's been hard as hell to get reasonable access with the kids since we've been separated for 6 months. POSOM gets to see my kids more than I and she said to me this week. "The kids and I are in a healthy relationship with POSOM" one of the last things I told her is that I said no. The kids are not happy. It's not a normal relationship. If POSOM knew that you were married and the husband was at home with the kids and he has no problem with putting himself in someone else's marriage. I would worry about him leaving you for another married woman and you would cheat on him as well. Good luck. I threw a little fear of abandonment in there. I have court next tuesday. Her bark is worse than her bite. I'm done with trying go through mediation and I will have better luck with a judge than her. I agree. It's time to move on and rebuild without her. I'm never going to be there for her when the bottom of all of this or anything in the future for her. She has caused me too much pain and crossed lines that to her she's convinced herself she hasn't, but it's way pass my limit.

[ScotisGone74]

Geez, thats a tough story, I feel for you I really do.  What makes these situations even more difficult in most cases is that We (Nons) can't really even talk to/discuss things with the people/couples that us and the exBPD were friends with, because in most cases the exBPD started a nasty smear campaign about us before the end and before we knew what was even really going on.   I realize now I  need Not worry about explaining/checking/asking anyone else anything about the exBPD, in the end it will all come out.  It may not all come out when I want it to, but eventually it won't be her little secret of lies.  Your situation will be the same. 

[Mutt]

Geez, thats a tough story, I feel for you I really do.  What makes these situations even more difficult in most cases is that We (Nons) can't really even talk to/discuss things with the people/couples that us and the exBPD were friends with, because in most cases the exBPD started a nasty smear campaign about us before the end and before we knew what was even really going on.   I realize now I  need Not worry about explaining/checking/asking anyone else anything about the exBPD, in the end it will all come out.  It may not all come out when I want it to, but eventually it won't be her little secret of lies.  Your situation will be the same.  

Thanks for the sentiments. Looking back at all of it this week. It's absolutely nuts what I went through last year. I've been called a monster from one of her friends a few months ago and that stung and it was things that my wife did & projected unto me. But you know what? If they aren't smart enough to look at both sides of the story, then see you later   I don't want you in my life. I've lost every mutual friend and everyone in her family as well.

I realize now I  need Not worry about explaining/checking/asking anyone else anything about the exBPD, in the end it will all come out.  It may not all come out when I want it to, but eventually it won't be her little secret of lies.  Your situation will be the same.  

This. Thanks for saying that. After reading it, it's given me confidence and I believe it to be true.