Don't let psychology terms make you stupid

[heartandwhole]

flying monkeys

What's a flying monkey? Seriously. I've seen this term before; I know it has something to do with the Wizard of Oz, but don't see how it applies to anything we discuss here?

[infjEpic]

What's a flying monkey? Seriously. I've seen this term before; I know it has something to do with the Wizard of Oz, but don't see how it has applies to anything we discuss here?

Have you really not encountered it before or are you making a point?
I'm just surprised that being a site moderator and having 3,200 posts, that you would not have come across this term.

I think I came across the term in some of the early videos I watched from ThriveAfterAbuse (one of the more popular YouTube channels), but it seems to be a very broadly used term on the internet when discussing PDs
www.thriveafterabuse.com/release-flying-monkeys/

[Skip]

Making a point.

The Wizzard of Oz metaphors originated with Randi Kreger back in the 1990s (on this messageboard here). The Wizzard of Oz is a movie about the powerful and the powerless. Even Randi thinks the term is ill advised and dropped it from her books. We dropped it her a decade ago.

Bowen's Triangulation, a natural human behavior, and the Karpman Drama triangle, an unhealthy version of triangulation, are clear psychology concepts that provide us with an understanding of human behavior, relationship conflict, why we are more prone to it than others, and how we can improve our "people skills" to avoid/minimize it in the future.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

"Flying monkeys" is about looking for the meaning of life in a 117 year old fairy-tale / social commentary about the collapse of the Populist Movement in the United States at the turn of the twentieth century, which was later (40 years later) made into a child's movie.

What would be an appropriate term to describe, when a person tells you derogatory information about another, in order to manipulate you? For example, my BPDex told me derogatory information about 2 of her flying monkeys, along the lines of STDs and so on.This may or may not have been true. I think the motivation was to remove any potential threat they posed to my BPDex

Lot's of overlapping ideas here and I sincerely can't make out what flying monkey means in this context. Can what you are talking about be simply described with common English such as:

"Besmirch" - an intentional attempt to spoil the reputation of a person by criticizing them severely, especially unfairly

"Character assassination" - slandering another person with the intent of destroying trust in him/her. 

"Impugn" - to cause people to doubt someone's character, qualities, or reputation by criticizing them

[once removed]

if i had come to believe that i was a preyed upon sucker who fell for a series of conscious, deliberate attempts to play on my emotions, insecurities, whatever, it would have an entirely different implication for my recovery.

Could you elaborate on this?

people with BPD are impulsive, not planners or predators. mental illness + ingenius grand schemes of systematically destroying a person (to what ends? involving them in a romantic relationship?) dont really add up.

im not a sucker or a victim. im a person who was immature, who partnered with someone who was immature, and though we loved each other the best we could, we had a messy, destructive, and immature relationship. there was no wool pulled over my eyes, no plot i fell for.

i dont mean to suggest a person with BPD is incapable of manipulating someone, we all are, and generally our motivations are the same - especially in the beginning of a relationship, we all have our little methods of "hooking" someone. these are benign and well intended actions, usually semi conscious.

the original point of this thread is that most of the clinical psychology terms we use are normal (even healthy) behavior, that we all engage in, but they are misused in a way that implies we were victims ("she mirrored me, i fell for it". then you have a host of other non clinical terms that have a thousand different meanings to everyone, to the point that they are devoid of meaning beyond determining everyone and their mothers have BPD.

i have a group of close friends. would someone that didnt like me or felt i wronged them refer to them as my flying monkeys and determine i have BPD?

[infjEpic]

Making a point.

The Wizzard of Oz metaphors originated with Randi Kreger back in the 1990s (on this messageboard here). The Wizzard of Oz is a movie about the powerful and the powerless. Even Randi thinks the term is ill advised and dropped it from her books. We dropped it her a decade ago.

Bowen's Triangulation, a natural human behavior, and the Karpman Drama triangle, an unhealthy version of triangulation, are clear psychology concepts that provide us with an understanding of human behavior, relationship conflict, why we are more prone to it than others, and how we can improve our "people skills" to avoid/minimize it in the future.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

"Flying monkeys" is about looking for the meaning of life in a 117 year old fairy-tale / social commentary about the collapse of the Populist Movement in the United States at the turn of the twentieth century, which was later (40 years later) made into a child's movie.

Ok, apologies, I'm new to this forum, so hadn't realised it's a prohibited term. I think it might be an idea to add prohibited terminology to the forum filter.

I think it's going to be tricky to control the use of the terminology, unless a person ends up on BPDF first, as most of the other sites and channels seem to be propagating 'established' terminology (I wasn't aware of the etymology - it didn't actual matter to me - I just adopted it)

Is there a list of approved BPDF terminology I can refer to?


Just on the point of Triangulation - I'm a little confused, would appreciate some clarification.
In your OP, I was under the impression you were advising posters to avoid terminology such as mirroring and triangulation (you suggested a more descriptive term such as jealousy induction), but you seem to be advocating it's use here?

[once removed]

its not a prohibited term.

i think what is advocated is: greater understanding of psychology and psychology terms in general, and where that fails, plain english

[valet]

This is good thread, Skip. Its title gave me a good laugh.  

I definitely got caught up in the psychological terminology and tried applying it in every interaction I had with anyone. In some ways it helped to protect me, but it was very detrimental in others. I wasn't open with others nor myself. I was still on guard... .waiting for one instance of 'mirroring', 'projection' or any of the above to use as a broad judgement of both new people and my oldest friends. Pied piper therapy or so it seems. We can't hide behind these things forever.

We do need to be aware of how we are being treated, but only in general. It's more important to know ourselves and stay focused on being the people that we want to be. We are only our actions, and no amount of thinking will ever guarantee us the happy lives we desire unless we get out there and own ourselves each and every day through what we do.

[Skip]

I definitely got caught up in the psychological terminology and tried applying it in every interaction I had with anyone.

Over the years, my observation has been that some members start labeling and patholgizing every aspect of the partners contributions to the relationship, and it is a very distorted view. Some of these things are not mental illness, they are just the dynamics of a relationship failing badly. Some of the disrespect we report is a function of us being too tolerant or too wounded (weak values, weak boundaries). Of course, some is pathology and some is abusive. It doesn't take much of either to wreck havoc in a relationship.

In your OP, I was under the impression you were advising posters to avoid terminology such as mirroring and triangulation (you suggested a more descriptive term such as jealousy induction), but you seem to be advocating it's use here?

I was encouraging members to use plain English (no jargon). And I was encouraging members to not use psychology terms that they don't have a good understanding of.

Mirroring, my first example, is not a pathology. We all do it in relationships - it is an essential part of human bonding in friendships and romantic relationships. It can become pathological, just like using a computer can become pathological, but neither are bad things in and of themselves. This is a very important concept as I've seen members of other support groups report abandoning new relationships because they saw mirroring.

Triangulation, my second example, is also not a pathology. Every member posting on this messageboard is, in fact, triangulating. Like the example above, it is a normal human behavior and it can become pathological. This is really important, too, because the only way to resolve triangulation is to understand its reciprocal affects (how all the participants play a role, including us) - otherwise it becomes a way of life for us.

Note: The term does not mean a "love triangle" (a common misuse).

This really isn't a semantics or linguistic issue. It's a healing philosophy.

Most everyone here on detaching is coming off of an extended period of dysfunctional behavior on both sides of the relationship and with their own clinical depression (and its characteristic mental distortions). Because of this, Detaching members are very vulnerable to distorted explanations for what they experienced and why they feel the way they do. Distorted explanations only makes matters worse in the long run as distorted explanations tend to deepen the woundedness, create a level a paranoia, confusion, and withdrawal with respect to future relationship partners, and obscure the bad habits that we have developed in our lifetime which, in many cases, are resolvable - but only if we see them and set our mind to see them and resolve them.

Hope this helps.

[infjEpic]

I get the general gist of the thread - less jargon, more descriptive language-thats sufficient, thanks

[Skip]

less jargon, more descriptive language

That is the point. 

[Stripey77]

Great post, thank you.

Thank you for reminding us that 'mirroring' (not that I think I was subject to a lot of that, the times I was it was so blatant it felt off, a bit like an overenthusiastic puppy it was that obvious) and idealisation are to some degree, the beginning of many a romantic relationship. And as you say, the bonding/glue that then makes us decide to carry on.

I think it is way too easy to deride ourselves, beat ourselves up and feel hoodwinked... .in darker moments to think, how could I have been so stupid? Or even, so stupid as to think someone loved me THAT much?

The truth is, they actually did love us THAT much to begin with (and probably many still do, but the parameters and conditions have shifted) ... .the feelings were very much real. And we are simply human beings who gave our hearts, completely.