I'm officially leaving

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Coffeeaddict here,

    I've been posting on here for years (off and on). I've gone from "staying and improving" to "undecided" to "leaving" and back again. I've finally made the solid decision to leave... . the date has been set.

    I've been married to my pwBPD for 16 hellish years. I've been battling on whether to stay or gone for at least 6-8 years (sad, I know), but there was always something to consider (the kids, my former career as a pastor, money, guilt, etc) but I finally came to the decision to leave.

    As with the rest of you I'm sure, my pwBPD was always said the worst, most aweful things to me... . attacking my character, calling me every name in the book, belittleing me, bullying, etc. But during this past month, she has statred to say things like "you should consider moving out", "you are the elephant in the room; you are the cause of our problems in this family", and "it's better when you aren't here." I have the feeling that she'd resort to calling the police to have me removed. So, even though she doesn't know it, I'm planning on moving out. She shouldn't be surprized, but she'll have into shock and will attack by all means necessary.

     The hard part is that I feel I must leave and be a safe distance away before she finds out that I'm gone. She has a history of destroying my things, verbally exploding, making threats of being physical and calling the police. My family is helping me a lot and making it all possible.

     Can any of you that have had to leave "in secret" give some insight? There are A LOT more details, but I need some help.

[coffeeaddict]

Coffeeaddict here,

    I've been posting on here for years (off and on). I've gone from "staying and improving" to "undecided" to "leaving" and back again. I've finally made the solid decision to leave... . the date has been set.

    I've been married to my pwBPD for 16 hellish years. I've been battling on whether to stay or gone for at least 6-8 years (sad, I know), but there was always something to consider (the kids, my former career as a pastor, money, guilt, etc) but I finally came to the decision to leave.

    As with the rest of you I'm sure, my pwBPD was always said the worst, most aweful things to me... . attacking my character, calling me every name in the book, belittleing me, bullying, etc. But during this past month, she has statred to say things like "you should consider moving out", "you are the elephant in the room; you are the cause of our problems in this family", and "it's better when you aren't here." I have the feeling that she'd resort to calling the police to have me removed. So, even though she doesn't know it, I'm planning on moving out. She shouldn't be surprized, but she'll have into shock and will attack by all means necessary.

     The hard part is that I feel I must leave and be a safe distance away before she finds out that I'm gone. She has a history of destroying my things, verbally exploding, making threats of being physical and calling the police. My family is helping me a lot and making it all possible.

     Can any of you that have had to leave "in secret" give some insight? There are A LOT more details, but I need some help.

[DetroitDame]

I understand she has a history of reacting violently so I strongly recommend you work with her to plan an amicable move-out.  Let it be her decision and her orders and you amicably follow them.  Next time she says the comments about you moving out, things better off without you, the elephant in the room comment, then just agree and say "Hey, what's next?  Let's plan this needed move I am to make in the way most favorable for our family."  Hopefully this works.  I understand BPD individuals are not as good at reasoning and rationalizing but maybe a little kindness will help and make it a mutual effort.

[coffeeaddict]

DetroitDame,

     Yeah, I understand, but I know her. It would just give her more time and opportunity to take me down. There is NO reasoning with her when she's hurt. We can't even agree on what to eat or what to watch with an arguement and her past behavior suggests that she's fake something (or try to "start something" and call the police. It happened to a friend of mine and he went to jail. Sorry, I soo wish I could just sit down with her and talk with her about it, but then again, I guess there won't be any issues at all if I could!

[nevaeh]

I can relate to your desire to want to "secretly" move out so as to not trigger her.  I also can see DetroitDame's point of working through an amicable departure plan with your pwBPD.

I have wanted to leave my uBPDh for many years but because of my own reasons (mainly having young kids) I decided to stick it out.  About 2-3 years ago I did tell H that I was seriously considering divorce.  He had been awful to me for a few months up to that point and I wanted to be done.  However, as soon as he found out I wanted to leave he LITERALLY clung to me like glue for an entire weekend.  I couldn't get away from him.  He was crying and begging and telling me how he would get better, etc.  I was seeing a T at the time and he even agreed to see one himself and started going.  I saw enough positive changes that I backed off of my decision to leave.

So now I want to leave again and I am petrified about how to handle the moments/days right after I tell him I don't want to be married anymore.  I don't want to have to pack up 3 kids and leave, but I realize I may have to do that.  I don't want to deal with the emotional mess that he will become, even though he knows we are in a very bad place right now and really should see this coming.  I don't know how we will split up all of our things and the prospect of having to go through that process almost literally makes me have an anxiety attack.  The lawyer I consulted with 3 years ago told me to withdraw half of our savings and put into my own account the day divorce papers are served.  If I do that (to protect myself and my best interests) will he see that as an act of war and ruin any chances of this being a remotely amicable split.

So I can see where you are torn and how you just want to secretly leave in the middle of the night, so to speak.  If your pwBPD is anything like mine, she talks a big game and may be telling you that you need to leave, but as soon as you say OK, I will leave then, she will cling to you like velcro.  I wrestle with this as well... . if you "agree" to her suggestion that she leave, then you are putting her in charge and giving her the impression that if she changes her mind and says she wants you to stay then you will stay.  So that is what I'm trying to figure out right now... . how I communicate that I no longer want to be married to him and not give him the impression that working things out is an option.  H and I had a conversation about a month ago that involved some talk of divorce.  When he would say something that might give the impression that he didn't want to be married anymore, I would say "well, maybe our best option is to separate so that we can find the person who is right for us"... . but every time I would say that he would immediately back off and try and rephrase so that it didn't sound like he really wanted to separate.

Are your kids still at home?  What will happen to them?  Are you willing to leave quietly in the night and if you do, how might that impact your rights to visitation, etc.  I would agree with DetroitDame that the best option would be to work things out for an amicable split.  The big question is whether that is a possibility in your situation.  You might also want to visit an attorney so you know how finances might be handled in that situation.  If you have kids, you may be able to slip away in the night but you are still forever tied to her so there is no avoiding the fact that you are going to have to face her several more times in your life. 

[coffeeaddict]

Javamom (nice username),

     Thanks for understanding. I agree that talking to about leaving and "doing the right thing" is best. But I can not underestimate what she'll do if I try to leave. She's not a "clinger" (in this situation at least... . ), she's a pusher. Bottomline is this: I'm 100% convinced that the police will be called and she'll try to have me arrested on false charges. Long story as to the details and I know that she'd be in the wrong, but I'm not willing to risk my kids seeing violent (even if not phyiscal) outburst and their dad in handcuffs. Sorry if I sound extreme, but I've been living with this for so long! She is in some sense "barking not biting" when she suggests I move out, but when she doesn't get the response she wants, she usually amps it up. She likes to bully and control and after 16 years, I'm done

[nevaeh]

Javamom (nice username)

haha... . I didn't catch that earlier.  I do love my coffee! 

I think it would be so much harder for a man married to a female pwBPD than the other way around.  I would say that men are usually believed last.  I believe my H's sister also has BPD and her common law husband has become an alcoholic and their 15-year old daughter has serious anxiety/mental issues.  I think SIL is probably abusive... . for sure verbally abusive and it wouldn't surprise me if she was also physically abusive.  I know her H doesn't know how to handle her - he seems to be a very nice and patient man.  He is physically smaller than her and also is hispanic so his english isn't the best although it has improved tremendously in the 15 years I have known him.  Her H doesn't want to leave because he doesn't want to leave DD with her but also can't cope with being with her which is why I think he has turned to drinking.  I'm sure she has threatened that he would never see their DD again, that she would get full custody, etc.  I think he's really stuck. 

I can really relate to and respect the fact that you've stayed so long.  Hopefully you are on good terms with your kids and splitting up won't negatively impact your future relationships with them.  If your wife is decent to the kids then I guess you wouldn't worry much about what would happen if you left them behind.  In that case, secretly leaving (like if they are away for a weekend or something) would probably be the best course of action.  I would worry a little bit about making sure the kids understand that your leaving has nothing to do with them and that you will always be there for them, etc.  I kind of wish my H would take on that role just once and tell me that he is done and wants a divorce.  But I know that won't happen and I'm going to have to own this one and do what's right for me.

Hope this all works out for you... . quickly.

[catnap]

Leaving a r/s or marriage to a pwBPD, secrecy and planning is sometimes needed to avoid false DV charges, cleaning out of bank accounts, maxing out credit cards, personal property being destroyed, taking children to unknown locations, etc.     

While it would be preferable to talk it out in an amicable adult manner, that rarely happens.  Your gut instinct is telling you that this is not going to be the safe route for you. 

I suggest you post a similar thread on the Legal Board https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=10.0 for feedback on members who have been down this road. 

[coffeeaddict]

@JavaMom,

     Well, my kids are young and have special needs, so I can't really explain it to them. She is a good mom (although when I'm around, her mood swings and disrepect to me and putting me down in front of them is probably not so good), so no worries there. I stayed all these years (10+) because of the kids, but now that she's been saying I'm not a good dad, that they are happier when I'm not there and maybe I should leave? Yeah, I'm out! I'm a pretty involved father and tried all I could with my wife, but I just have no more blood to bleed out. She has always tried to use something to control me (career, sex or lack of, my family, my hobbies, friends, and now the kids) to control or punish me. And I've bled everytime. But you can only do that for so many years and I just don't even feel it anymore.


I can't (won't) leave until after Christmas. Makes me sad, but I have no more options!

[atcrossroads]

Coffee,

I'm sorry for what you've endured, and I understand.  I had to leave in stealth mode too; I did so in February.  I received lots of amazing advice here that helped my muddled brain focus on what I needed to do.  I was a nervous wreck.  Here is the link to the thread - there might be some ideas that help you.

It sounds like you are doing the right thing -- it's hell, but it will get better.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=193737.0

[DetroitDame]

DetroitDame,

     Yeah, I understand, but I know her. It would just give her more time and opportunity to take me down. There is NO reasoning with her when she's hurt. We can't even agree on what to eat or what to watch with an arguement and her past behavior suggests that she's fake something (or try to "start something" and call the police. It happened to a friend of mine and he went to jail. Sorry, I soo wish I could just sit down with her and talk with her about it, but then again, I guess there won't be any issues at all if I could!

So sorry you are in this mess.  Hopefully you can make a good escape without losing too much property.  Dealing is so hard, I just wish we had the answer!

[Lucky Jim]

Hi Coffeeaddict, I can relate to your situation and support your decision to move on.  I was married to my uBPDexW for 16 years and recently concluded our divorce this year after three years apart.  Much like you describe, my Ex bullied and verbally abused me, smashed personal property, punched a hole in the wall, broke down a door, threatened suicide multiple times, and would stalk me in our own home.  Not fun, believe me.  My Ex also "pretended" to call the Police on me several times, or threatened to do it other times, so I don't underestimate your concern about your W reporting you on false charges.  I came close to having it happen to me, I'm sure.

Will be happy to fill you in at greater length, but suffice to say I have been in your shoes, my friend, and think you are doing the right thing by making your escape plan.  It took friends and family to conduct an "intervention" on me in order to get me to see that it was time to move on after trying my best for so long.  It seems you have reached a similar point without such a dramatic measure, so I admire your resolve.

Hang in there,

Lucky Jim

[marbleloser]

What happens to the special needs kids? Who are they going to be with?

[coffeeaddict]

Thanks All,

     Some have asked about the kids. I believe they will have sufficient care from their mother (with enough financial support from me). Despite everything else, she does love them and is a good mom (apart from how she treats me) and I believe that it might even be better and less tense if I'm not there as a "trigger". It breaks my heart that I won't be there as much, but this is really out of my hands now.

    As far as property loss, I really don't care. I'm only taking my own personal things (clothes, car, some keepsakes, etc) and nothing else. I am aware from the outset the losing everything (my job, home, money, respect of friends who don't understand, closeness to my kids) is the price I pray for freedom. And if I won't pay now, it'll cost even more.

     If any of you would / could PM me regarding your actual plan (how did you leave, what steps, etc) that would be great. For me, my decision is made, but the "devil is in the details".

[nevaeh]

If any of you would / could PM me regarding your actual plan (how did you leave, what steps, etc) that would be great. For me, my decision is made, but the "devil is in the details".

I am also interested in this information!

I am different in that I will/would be leaving WITH my kids so the logistics of actually getting H out of the house, or us out of the house are very tricky.  I can't just leave on a whim with 3 kids (and two cats)!  He could go to a hotel for a few days until he found a rental somewhere.  Not practical for me.  If H is willing to leave then my life will be much easier.  If he is not then I am faced with the problem of leaving myself or having to live with him until a divorce/legal separation is finalized.

A little advice that my lawyer gave me a few years ago when I met with her to discuss divorce.  H and I have a significant amount of money in savings and I am concerned about timing of telling him - do I tell him before or after I have seen the lawyer? Do I just have him served with papers?  If I give him any forewarning will he try and lock up our assets so that I have no access?  So, lawyer advised that I withdraw half of our money and start a new account on the day that he is served papers (I explained that money will be a huge issue for him - i.e. not wanting to give up any).  In your case, since you are planning on leaving without any warning you might want to do something similar so that you can make sure you have enough money to get you by in the interim.  Lawyer also pointed out that papers can be served for legal separation which would allow child support and initial splitting of immediate financial assets right away, so that both spouses have resources to live until the time the divorce is final.

While you think that it might be best for kids if you leave, you might want to talk to lawyer about how this might impact your future visitation rights for kids.  Just something you might want to consider before packing up and leaving. 

You also might want to think about things that your W will ask for, or want.  I do remember saying the same thing to my lawyer that I wasn't too concerned about the money side of things but she pointed out that it is important for me to get "my share" so that I can continue to take care of kids, etc.  She started down the road of talking about retirement accounts, and other long-term assets/investments.  I only point this out because you probably want to have an idea of what your wife (or her lawyer) might ask for so that you are prepared.  If you give up all of your personal assets when you vacate the home, you may at least want to have a list of what is there so that you can use that to "balance" out what your wife may get of your retirement, etc. 

But, anyone else reading this... . particularly women with kids leaving BPDh, I am curious to know how you handled logistics and if/how you got your H to leave the home or how you handled that situation.

[marbleloser]

What you're talking about doing is called abandoment. Don't think her attorney won't play that up in court to her maximum benefit,and you'll get to pay his fees to do so.You'll also get to maintain the household bills,house payment,child support,alimony,medical bills,etc.,,

Any chance she's making it tough on you to get you to leave,because that's what she wants?

Also,since we don't know each other here and it's an anonymous forum,are you seeing someone on the side now?

[nevaeh]

If any of you would / could PM me regarding your actual plan (how did you leave, what steps, etc) that would be great. For me, my decision is made, but the "devil is in the details".

I am also interested in this information!

I am different in that I will/would be leaving WITH my kids so the logistics of actually getting H out of the house, or us out of the house are very tricky.  I can't just leave on a whim with 3 kids (and two cats)!  He could go to a hotel for a few days until he found a rental somewhere.  Not practical for me.  If H is willing to leave then my life will be much easier.  If he is not then I am faced with the problem of leaving myself or having to live with him until a divorce/legal separation is finalized.

A little advice that my lawyer gave me a few years ago when I met with her to discuss divorce.  H and I have a significant amount of money in savings and I am concerned about timing of telling him - do I tell him before or after I have seen the lawyer? Do I just have him served with papers?  If I give him any forewarning will he try and lock up our assets so that I have no access?  So, lawyer advised that I withdraw half of our money and start a new account on the day that he is served papers (I explained that money will be a huge issue for him - i.e. not wanting to give up any).  In your case, since you are planning on leaving without any warning you might want to do something similar so that you can make sure you have enough money to get you by in the interim.  Lawyer also pointed out that papers can be served for legal separation which would allow child support and initial splitting of immediate financial assets right away, so that both spouses have resources to live until the time the divorce is final.

While you think that it might be best for kids if you leave, you might want to talk to lawyer about how this might impact your future visitation rights for kids.  Just something you might want to consider before packing up and leaving. 

You also might want to think about things that your W will ask for, or want.  I do remember saying the same thing to my lawyer that I wasn't too concerned about the money side of things but she pointed out that it is important for me to get "my share" so that I can continue to take care of kids, etc.  She started down the road of talking about retirement accounts, and other long-term assets/investments.  I only point this out because you probably want to have an idea of what your wife (or her lawyer) might ask for so that you are prepared.  If you give up all of your personal assets when you vacate the home, you may at least want to have a list of what is there so that you can use that to "balance" out what your wife may get of your retirement, etc. 

But, anyone else reading this... . particularly women with kids leaving BPDh, I am curious to know how you handled logistics and if/how you got your H to leave the home or how you handled that situation.

[Lucky Jim]

    As far as property loss, I really don't care. I'm only taking my own personal things (clothes, car, some keepsakes, etc) and nothing else. I am aware from the outset the losing everything (my job, home, money, respect of friends who don't understand, closeness to my kids) is the price I pay for freedom. And if I won't pay now, it'll cost even more.

Hi Coffee, I like the way you put that.  In similar fashion, I left with my car, guitar and a change of clothes.  And I lost all of those things that you list: my income (from loss of clients), home, money, respect of friends who don't understand, closeness to my kids.  And I'm here to tell you that it was worth it to have my sanity back, and to regain peace in my life.  It's exciting to be starting my life over again, after hitting the reset button.  I am meeting women who are actually nice to me and treat me well (what a concept!).

Hang in there and keep strong,

Lucky Jim

[KateCat]

What you're talking about doing is called abandoment.

Coffee, no matter what U.S. state you're in, you've got to consult an attorney in your jurisdiction before you move out of the marital home. You may be leaving for good-hearted reasons, but the law will not see it that way. A good family law attorney can guide you through the correct separation process.

[coffeeaddict]

Marbleloser,

       I live here in the South. I talked with an attorney at length as to my plans. It's worth noting that I will be leaving the same day as divorce papers are served. I'll be assuming all debt, taking next to nothing from the home, leaving the bank accounts untouched and taking my name off, leaving a significant amount of cash to help during the transition, as well as the first of what will be regular checks for her to live off, even before anything is officially established with the courts (in regards to cs and allimony). I've set up a new budget for her with the expenses adjusted expenses (without debt). The budget would only require her to work very part-time and at that there should be enough money to float for a couple of months while she gets settled. This will all be spelled out in a packet the I'll leave at the house. This is why I can't leave for another 5 months! I'll double check again before I leave to make sure I'm not doing anything that I'll get in trouble for, but I honesty do want to do all I can to make sure they'll be ok.

     It's also worth noting that she has, on several occasions, suggested that I leave, move out, find other living arrangements, that it's better when I'm not there, etc, etc. Just sayin'

[coffeeaddict]

And no, I'm NOT seeing anyone on the side! Going to move in with my family.

[Surnia]

Coffeeadict

I can only underline what others said: Having a plan, a strategie is very important. Including practical and legal questions!

I can remember well when atcrossroad did it in February. And it worked!

[coffeeaddict]

Surina,

    Thank u for the insight. So what was "atcrossroads" method plan? I can't find the link. My plan is still being worked out and I have the time, so now is when I can change it if I need to. Any further help would be great! Thank u!

[KateCat]

Good going, coffee.  You'll find additional practical advice for each step of the process from the good folks who post on the "Family Law, Separating, etc." board on this forum.

[Surnia]

It was this post:

Coffee,

I'm sorry for what you've endured, and I understand.  I had to leave in stealth mode too; I did so in February.  I received lots of amazing advice here that helped my muddled brain focus on what I needed to do.  I was a nervous wreck.  Here is the link to the thread - there might be some ideas that help you.

It sounds like you are doing the right thing -- it's hell, but it will get better.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=193737.0

[coffeeaddict]

Oh yes, I did read (and will now re read) this post. I'm in a slightly different situation since I'm the h and we have kids, but again I'll do everything I can to prepare ahead of time. I'm working on a "household manual" of sorts for her, with instructions, directions, and information on everything. I work fulltime, pay the bills, do all home maintanance and lawncare, more than half the housework, deal with doctors, drive them to anything that's more than a mile away... . it's been a double edged sword... . doing everything so that she'll not be "overwhelmed" and now having to prepare her to take over. Lots of little details. I honestly do desire to make it as easy as I can for her and want to give her everything I can or think that she'll want even before asked. I don't want to fight over any detail. If she wants something, she can have it. And within reason, I'll pay whatever I need to for support. All I want is my freedom (and my underwear, etc)

[Surnia]

Yes, with kids I think it is even more important to have a plan and being well informed about all the legal questions.

And with kids you can perhaps go away in stealth mode. Later however you have to deal with her in some ways... .

Just thinking loud: What about not going in stealth mode but with support of your family? Eg. your father or brother are there when you are moving or whatever is to do in front of her?

[coffeeaddict]

Yeah, I know I'll have to deal with her in the future, it's just the initial split that has me worried. She (like so many pwBPD) are prone to extreme dramatics in order to maintain control. It's an option to leave "in the open" with family members there, but my plan is to have 95% of what I'm taking already out of the home (in storage) for safe keeping. These items will also be itemized and a list given to her so that there's no question. Saying that to say that I won't need to have family witnesses there as support to get my stuff, just would be there when I tell her what's going on (I'm leaving, d papers are on the way, here's some instructions and money-as previously discribed) and to say goodbye. BUT, I know for 100% that she WILL call the police. I know that I've done nothing wrong, but I don't want false allegations to land me in handcuffs as they are trying to find out. It would not surprize me if she hit herself and then blamed me for it. But if I'm already gone and am 300 miles away before she knows what's going on, it's a little harder (I would think) to claim something. Idk, am I overthinking this?

[marbleloser]

Ok.Usually when someone is ready to leave everything,they have their eye on greener pastures.

Good for you!

I'm in the south too,and I can tell you,if you leave,even after having her served,that's abandonment.You need to consult with a few more attorneys.Also,keep a digital voice recorder on you at ALL times when in the home.That will help you fight any false charges.

Your attorney telling you start paying her,without a court order,tells me he may not be very good.The reason being,without a court order,any money you give her will be considered a gift.You won't get credit for it and if she's asks for back support,you'll still have to pay it.So,NO MONEY to her without a judge signed court order.NOTHING.You'll be paying soon enough and you're going to need money for legal fees.

[coffeeaddict]

Marbleloser,

     Sorry if I come off a little frustrated, but how does one in my situation leave without it being considered "abandonment"? Surely there is some way to do it otherwise I'd be considered a prisioner!

[eeyore]

Marbleloser,

     Sorry if I come off a little frustrated, but how does one in my situation leave without it being considered "abandonment"? Surely there is some way to do it otherwise I'd be considered a prisioner!

I think she will always consider it abandonment and FOG you.  That is why you are already struggling with it now. 

Did you try your best?  Did you work on yourself?  Did you think this through for a long time?  Most likely the answers are yes.  What you choose is to attempt to have a life.  You are choosing to be healthy.  From your perspective it's not abandonment.  It's an impossible situation that you can't live in any longer.