She thinks I have changed into "this person"... what do i tell her?

[Cipher13]

So here is a recent email i recieved:

I want to know why you have changed into this person that you have become.  This is not you.  I don't know or understand these behaviors from you.  You said last night that you react that way and then once you get them explained you understand... . you have NEVER behaved this way and as far as I am concerned I am not wanting to be any part of your new self.  I am not wearing my ring and I will not until you have figured out what it is you want and how you are going to behave.

How do I even begin to respond?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Wrongturn1]

What specific behavior is she talking about?

[RedEye]

My wife says a similar thing, "You're not you anymore, you're somebody else. The old you is dead, and he's the one I loved. I hate this new person who's living with me." I've tried telling her that I'm the same person, but it doesn't mean anything to her.

Has your behavior changed recently to prompt this email? Are there things that you've done recently or started doing that she doesn't like? My wife felt that I "died" when I did a couple things that legitimately hurt her, which added to her devaluation of me.

Just based on that email (I don't know your back story), I would personally tell her what what my goals for the relationship are (to stay in relationship, work things out, rekindle love? Take a break?). Maybe now would be an appropriate time to clearly set some boundaries -- or what sort of behavior is she asking about?

[Cipher13]

Yes I have started to use the tools I have been learning here to "help" with our releationship and the rages.  The changes are that I am no longer the doormate and that I am begining to set boundaries and use SET and DEARMAN. The more Ius them the beeter I am with them and the more she says I have changed. I used to just cave to any and all demands and arguments,.

[Lao Tzu]

Wow, I'm really very envious.  You've quit playing the game where 'they' always win and she doesn't like it at all.  Very cool    If you really want to reply (I'm not an advocate, by the way, of keeping in contact), the answer is: "Cause I'm not broken anymore"  She probably won't get it as it has nothing to do with her and thus is of no interest, but I think it's the truth.

LT

[RedEye]

One thing could be to say that you understand that she's frustrated and doesn't like it at all, but that you feel that it is necessary for the relationship. At that point, she'll probably explain how if you actually cared about the relationship, you would listen to her and not be such an inconsiderate jerk. "How is not listening to me loving me?" This is where I would either have a really good explanation for setting boundaries (researched and prepared in advance), or try to explain your needs, how you need space/independence/peace of mind. I think if I tried to explain my needs to my wife, though, she would tell me that I'm selfish and I need to put her needs first.

[briefcase]

This is pretty common.  I get this too - right down to the removal of the wedding ring.  All you can really do is validate - afterall, you have changed, and it's got to be disconcerting for her.  

You can also start to work in some positive reinforcement - I often try to express appreciation for the way my wife raises issues when she had a problem and brings it up in a mature way (about half the time now).  So, reinforce the positives.

When this comes up, I generally say that I'm trying to work on communicating in new and better ways with her, in an effort to improve the relationship.  But, nothing I say really mollifies her, she still wants the "old me" back sometimes, even though she was destroying him and had zero respect for him.

You are close to establishing a new normal. She's realizing the old ways aren't working anymore, and she doesn't like it (why should she, the old ways worked well for her).  

[Cipher13]

Man I really wish i waited to go to lunch. I have all these encouraging responses that I am on the right track. I can't and won't blame anyone for not responding to his post sooner... . not a logical thought but man I made a mess of things.  If I would have waited to takelunch after ti read these posts to me I wouldn't have agreed to everything she was just demaninding me to do to get me back to the old "normal" me.  I messed it all up. Now I have to start all over. I aggreed that my behavior was worn and that it backfired  and all that crap... . I don't have what it takes to stay in this if I'm back and forth it is waht is making this worse...

[briefcase]

No worries - this path is not a straight line for any of us.  And, you really won't have to start all over.  It's a temporarty set back.  You can even bring it back up and ask her to suggest ways to make communication better in the relationship.  See what she says and see if it's something you can work with.  If she has no suggestions, you can even ask for specifics - How would you like me to share my opinion with you when it's different from yours?

[Cipher13]

Thanks realy thought I stepped in it. I see me trying to go back to what she thinks she ants and not being able to and that causing further conflicts.

I want the submissive you back.  I do not want this "new" you.  I want the you that I feel in love with which was the kind sweet sensitive I do NOT want what you are trying to change into because that is not you.  Please bring the submissive you back!

Thats pretty much her mindset on this. She knows that I have been going to T and since then is "new" me has been more prevalant and she thinks I am over doing or misunderstanding what they are telling me to do.

[briefcase]

Well, that's pretty blunt.  I'm guessing the "Submissive" you wasn't the real you either?  You sort of get backed into that role trying to find peace.  There was never peace when you were a doormat was there?  It's never enough. 

Your goal here is not to make her happy.  Your goal is to get back in control over your life.   

[Cipher13]

Your goal is to get back in control over your life

I used to thing that only the complete oposite if the hell I am feeling is how to get back control. After 12 years of being submisive and attaching a little backbone to myself I am at a loss as to how or what can be done. It seems hopeless at any level. No there was no peace as a doormat just took 10 years to realize that.

[Wrongturn1]

No need to beat yourself up too badly about botching things today (that's your wife's job - hahaha).  Like others have said, getting healthier is a slow process, and sometimes you take one step forward and 2 steps back.  The important part is always taking that next step forward. 

I joint the other posters here in encouraging you to continue to stand your ground, enforce your boundaries, and take good care of yourself.  You already determined that submitting to your BPD does not improve the situation, so it would be counterproductive to fall back into those old ways.

[Cipher13]

You already determined that submitting to your BPD does not improve the situation, so it would be counterproductive to fall back into those old ways.

So very true. Just as I get to a point where I am feeling better about myslef and find ways to hold on to doing the right things my wife finds new ways to try to bring me back to the old me. Even convincinly at times. It feels like to me I am standing on firm ground with my actions yet after talking to her it sounds like I am a horrible person that uses condicending words and just jab an pick at her.  Its so relentless that I feel like she has to be right and I am the one that is a monster that just hates and hates.

I was warned that it will get tlike this especially if Iam on the right track. There is no reason it has to be like this for being on the right track.

[123Phoebe]

I was warned that it will get tlike this especially if Iam on the right track. There is no reason it has to be like this for being on the right track.

Cipher, until it becomes abundantly clear in your mind that your wife suffers from a serious emotional disorder, as serious a schizophrenia, your relationship will continue to wobble-- you will continue to wobble back and forth.

Acceptance is a beautiful thing.  Acceptance is the "right track" to standing on firmer ground, also believing and admitting that we do indeed play a humongous role in our relationships.

There is a very good reason why it has to 'be like this' for being on the right track.  A mental illness is involved.  A dysfunctional dynamic has been established.  How many years has it taken to get to this level of dysfunction?

By consistently implementing the tools available here and not getting bogged down in the rubble of our own minds (FOG), good things happen.  And they happen faster than we can imagine, if we believe in the process, believe in ourselves and believe that it does get worse before it gets better... . a lot better.  We cannot be afraid of that 'worse' part, or succumb to it.  That is part of our own dysfunction.

Validate validate and validate some more.  Do not be afraid to actually speak to your wife in a language that both of you can relate to = truth.

Yes, this new behavior of yours is different.  Yep.  Validate her recognition of it.  And speak your truth.  Listen to what she has to say.  Respond to what she says, rather than reacting using tired out old coping mechanisms.

Change is hard.  As Skip says, 'Good mental health is hard'.  Accept these things as true and go for the gusto!  A new and improved relationship

[Cipher13]

So I have looked over and read and re-read various different ways to validate and what words to use for SET and all that. I have tried them and tried them. At the very begining when I first tried them I was able to see some real benefit to them. I saw some results occationally and that motivated me to continue.

Realizing that no 2 people are ever alike. And certainly no 2 pwBPD  are alike I am have such a hard time to get these to have any sort of function now. Sometimes they are bein gturned back on me or mostly I am flat out just calle dout on them. Where as my wife is undiagnossed I see a lot of the tried and true traits of BPD. However some of the seemingly important ones seem to be missing... . For example I have not been able to find the childhood issue where this stems. I am either blocked for this and it is still being kept from me or it just isn't there.  Also the lying and cheating. I see these but the cheating happened once before we were married and she is always brutally honest with me. Can and sometimes lies to others including her parents. The self harm I have not seen either. However it was there when she was a teen she has told me.

I'm just saying iots hard to fight the good fight for "good menta health" when you seem to be losing your sin the process.l

[briefcase]

Your situation got me thinking about an old analogy I used to use.  I used to think of my wife as like she was a hurricane and I was struggling to live in the eye of her storm - I was always moving and changing position in relation to the position of the "storm" trying to find the "peace" in the eye of storm.  But the truth is that there is never real peace in the eye of storm that never ends.  One way or another, you have to break free of the eye and get through the wall of the storm.  It really, really sucks to travel through the wall of a hurricane, and it can seem easier to just retreat back to the eye. 

Do you feel like you are trying to walk through the wall of an emotional hurricane?  Reading your posts here, kind of reminds me when I felt like that too.  It can be done.  Many here have done it and we are here for you.

I'll let you in on a little secret too.  There is a reason I don't use the hurricane analogy anymore (or volcanos, vampires, etc.).  Analogies comparing people with BPD to powerful natural (or supernatural) forces miss the mark in one important way - people with BPD are not powerful at all.  They are broken, hurting people with a serious disorder that causes them a lot of pain and suffering (and a lot of pain and suffering to those around them because of their maladaptive ways of coping).

So, that hurricane I thought I was a lot more about my own issues.  My desire to avoid conflict.  My fear of my wife's emotions.  My confusion about my role and my wife's role in things.  These things, coming from inside me, are what made it feel like a hurricane.  I gave my wife a lot of power of over.  Most of us here do (or did). 

You can do this.  There is hope.         

[Cipher13]

breifcase

I see your point it si liek a huricane and its not exactly the right way to really describe it as you are right they are not powerful. However there words are. Or they can be. I to think alot of this is my own issues. If I were a stong agressive type I wouldn't have stayed when the first opportuntiy showed up.

[briefcase]

We imagine that other people in the same position might have made different choices than we did.  And by extionsion we imagine that if we were different we might have done something different too.  Maybe.  Maybe not. 

You are where you are.  And that's ok.  You aren't alone.  Stick around and keep working and learning, this does get easier. 

[waverider]

Your duty is to be the real you, going backwards will be harder once you have been forward.

Your wifes choice is to either like the real you or not. That is her choice not yours.

It is not your wifes choice to decide who the real you is.

[Cipher13]

It is not your wifes choice to decide who the real you is.

I agree and I know this to be complete fact. Its not easy to convey when she is trying to find out why I have changed. Thing is I know what I am doing isn't mean... . its different to how I have normally been but how in the world can I help her know its not mean. Its not cruel. Its actually very "normal".

[123Phoebe]

It is not your wifes choice to decide who the real you is.

I agree and I know this to be complete fact. Its not easy to convey when she is trying to find out why I have changed. Thing is I know what I am doing isn't mean... . its different to how I have normally been but how in the world can I help her know its not mean. Its not cruel. Its actually very "normal".

One way is to consistently walk your talk and be true to yourself.  Over time, a new normal will be established  

When we don't stick around for the nasty's, we're protecting the relationship from further harm-- our self-shame for putting up with it, their shame and blame for 'going there' and disrespect of us for taking it... .

When we feel better about things, we're more open to the positive aspects of the person and the relationship and more accepting when things are amiss.  We're not on pins and needles wondering 'when' the next shoe is going to drop.  It will!  La la la... .   We know we can protect ourselves and the relationship from further harm using our tried and true boundaries.

We really need to know what our boundaries are and when they're being crossed.  They probably won't like it when we protect ourselves.  Oh well, if it's a non-negotiable issue.  And if the relationship ends because of it; well, it probably wasn't the relationship for us anyway.  That's the way it goes sometimes.

We cannot force another to be who we want them to be and we cannot tie ourselves up in knots to be someone we're not.  We're not compatible with everybody.

We ARE individuals with our own wants, needs and desires.  No one person can meet every single item on our checklist.  Our relationships should not be all encompassing.

Unenmesh (get the focus off) from what she might think is mean, knowing in your heart that you're doing the right thing, you're a good and decent man.  When you believe in yourself, she'll start believing in you, too; she'll take you seriously.

You can do this, Cipher!


 

[waverider]

It is not your wifes choice to decide who the real you is.

I agree and I know this to be complete fact. Its not easy to convey when she is trying to find out why I have changed. Thing is I know what I am doing isn't mean... . its different to how I have normally been but how in the world can I help her know its not mean. Its not cruel. Its actually very "normal".

Continue to do what is right, you dont have to sell that to anyone. pwBPD dont like being "sold" anything, they take that as controlling. She will just have to learn to accept the new you.

In my experience after the initial reluctance is over, they often settle better with the new you. Inside they are unstable and generally inconsistent and hence prefer stability and consistency in those around them, they just dont know it.

[Grey Kitty]

I know that my wife did (much later) express gratitude that I stopped taking crap from her, and by not picking it up, forced her to deal with her own crap... . and ultimately grow and learn in the process.

But it sure wasn't easy when I started changing the rules!

Hang in there--it absolutely will get better for you, and most likely for your partner too.

[waverider]

If YOU don't change, things will stay the same. If things were not good then keeping things the same was not an option.

You are not attempting to control her, and person you can control is you.

When I was making changes I kept reminding her that I was only controling me not her, as she was expecting everything I was doing to be an attempt to control her.

[Grey Kitty]

That kind of projection bites. I remember being accused many many times of being controlling. Perhaps there was some truth in that, however often those accusations of being controlling were an effort to control me.

Either way, nobody can be controlled without consenting to it. So if you ARE controlling somebody, they are letting you do it! (And if somebody is controlling you, you ARE letting them do it too!)

[zaqsert]

Cipher13, it's not easy changing old behaviors.  I know you can do it!

Reinforcing what others have already said here, despite any number of setbacks you can keep moving things forward.  The more you do it, the more you will get used to it.  Your new behaviors will gradually feel more natural, which will help you feel better about them.  And over time, your wife will learn to live with them too.  You being consistent in your behaviors will help her get used to the new normal.

It does get better.  Keep up the good work!

[Cipher13]

Thanks to everyone for all the support. I don't often post when things are going good or oven just ok. I would like to say I had a pretty good weekend. There was a possibilty of and potential blow up but it defused itself rather quickly.

I don't knwo how long it will last but she is now asking me to do things ratehr than telling me. I thank her and praise her to re-enforce the behavior. She is still wanting a lot of acknowldgement of my feelings about her and our relationship. ie"I need to you tell me you love me more, I need you to tell me how important I ma to you".  These are new and I don't mind doing them. However they are on the edge of being demaning and thus making my reactions feeling forced and not as sinsere.  I wan to becareful with that.  I don't wan tot go to insinser land.

[waverider]

Have you tried telling her it makes you feel good when she phrases things like this?

"I like it when you tell me you love me more, I like it when you to tell me how important I am to you"

rather than:

"I need to you tell me you love me more, I need you to tell me how important I am to you"

If she gets the idea that she receives a better response by using the former method rather than the latter, it becomes a win / win, she gets what she wants and you dont resent it.

Getting their own wants/likes/needs mixed up is a big BPD problem

[Cipher13]

No. But thanks for the advice. I will use it.