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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: When I knew it was hopelessly over  (Read 1498 times)
DownandOut
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« on: October 17, 2013, 11:12:45 AM »

Below is the email I sent to my uBpdexgf the day after we broke up and I'd finally made the decision to move on - her response was everything I needed to realize that i was in this alone and I wasn't important enough to fight for:

Hey... .I wish we could have done this in person on Sunday because i knew that would be the last time i ever saw you... you were right about me having my cards all out... .i need to say it all especially when its my last chance so here it goes. I'm sorry that you were frustrated but I hope you understand my frustration as well. You're constantly coming in and out of my life whenever you want and every time it's like deja vu... every time we've attempted a relationship or even talked about it there's been a different reason as to why it couldn't work. Although I always had feelings for you... I got over it. Here we are again. You come back into my life when everything is going great for me, and honestly, I thought you were the last piece of the puzzle to have the life I wanted. This time, you tell me you're ready, it was always me, you adore me, you love me, were gonna really give this the true chance we always knew it deserved because its really hard to find someone with the connection that we have. All these old feelings come up and now I get invested deeper emotionally. Bam! There's that brick wall again. Now the reason is that we have no passion... you love me but its not enough... in my opinion all the good times between us contradict all that. Maybe that's why I feel like we've been in two different relationships. I'm a man that knows what I want and I found it... .but I need someone that knows what they want too. You keep saying you're too hited up or something's wrong with you when the truth is you're just letting negative thoughts dictate your emotions and how you feel. I don't know what to believe anymore about how real you felt because how you really feel is so clouded with the ideas you have in your mind about how things are supposed to be. You've made it clear that that's something you struggle with. I understand feelings change but the extreme changes you go through make those feelings seem less sincere and more open to interpretation. That's what drives me nuts! The truth is you either always knew that you lacked real feelings for me or you really do have strong feelings for me but for some reason you've convinced yourself that it's not enough and you need to run away. Either way, I need to do what's right for me. It kills me inside knowing that true love slipped through my fingers but the future is positive. Maybe I should've fought harder because I know how special you are. I wish I could be there to share with you the next step in your career and your move to your new apartment and all the other amazing things that will happen in your life because you are a person that could do great things. I wish i could be a part of all that. But I can't. I can't keep reliving the same movie. I just hope you're sure that its not enough... because unfortunately for both of us even if you realize later that I was right for you... I can't be there. I can't risk it again. I didnt want to end on bad terms either and this is how i feel. I will always love you and I hope that your life is as amazing as it should be. Goodbye uBPDexgf.

Her response was something to the effect of "well i guess I was a mistake in your life and I'm glad you've put a cap on the number of times we could do this. Don't worry about me coming into your life because it's not gonna happen again." That's when I knew... .something is seriously wrong and no matter how hard I tried and how much I was willing to sacrifice for this person, she would always be the same and I would always feel the same.
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hopealways
aka moving4ward
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2013, 11:55:30 AM »

Your email to her was very typical of an otherwise emotionally normal non writing to an emotionless BPDex. And her response was so typical: as though not one of the words mattered, as though she has no comprehension of feelings, emotions, or anything remotely kind/soft.  Immediately you are painted black. 

I feel you.  Do you know how many times I tried to have a rational heart to heart with my BPDex.  It was like speaking to a 3 year old-she had no grasp of any of these concepts and could not relate on a normal adult level.  All my attempts were met with utter nothingness.

As Ironman said once so eloquently "I hate this f*kin disorder."
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DownandOut
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« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2013, 12:13:18 PM »

Your email to her was very typical of an otherwise emotionally normal non writing to an emotionless BPDex. And her response was so typical: as though not one of the words mattered, as though she has no comprehension of feelings, emotions, or anything remotely kind/soft.   Immediately you are painted black. 

I feel you.  Do you know how many times I tried to have a rational heart to heart with my BPDex.  It was like speaking to a 3 year old-she had no grasp of any of these concepts and could not relate on a normal adult level.  All my attempts were met with utter nothingness.

As Ironman said once so eloquently "I hate this f*kin disorder."

In bold.

It is so difficult to comprehend when we, as nons, are not like that. I can't imagine living a life free from empathy, free from any real connection to the world. At first, my uBPDexgf spoke to me like she knew where I was coming from, like she had that same love in her heart that I had. Now I know it was mirroring and none of it was true. I am truly grieving a death, the death of an idea rather than the death of a person. While I certainly will never see her again, I do not miss her, but I will always miss what I thought she was.

I, too, hate this disorder.
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Century2012
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2013, 12:21:11 PM »

Oh gosh, down and out ...

I feel you. I wrote a similar letter. And got a hateful phone call saying well  ... .well... ... ..well ... .you threw me out ... .(which I did because he got so drunk he brought a homeless person up to the condo who stole some vodka!).

Then he says, well ... .I am going to get drunk.

Tears welled in my eyes (since I took him to rehab twice) and he heard my voice choke.

He says, "Oh, you are not going to cry, are you?"
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Century2012
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« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2013, 12:28:59 PM »

And, yes, we will always miss the person we thought they were.
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DragoN
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« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2013, 11:36:11 PM »

Excerpt
I feel you.  Do you know how many times I tried to have a rational heart to heart with my BPDex.  It was like speaking to a 3 year old-she had no grasp of any of these concepts and could not relate on a normal adult level.  All my attempts were met with utter nothingness.

Better conversations to be had with a glass of water.
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patientandclear
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2013, 10:09:47 AM »

Downandout, the way you laid out your experience with and feelings about the woman you love wBPD is eloquent and reasonable and kind.

The problem is -- let's say she agrees with you.  When you said she "just" lets negative thoughts interfere with her feelings, that little word "just" vastly understates the problem.  She does have good feelings for you, no doubt.  But then scary bad feelings arise, in part precisely because she cares for you & is afraid something bad will happen (she'll lose you, you'll realize who she really is & leave her, you'll try to control her -- one of the litany of fears of closeness that pwBPD sincerely have), and she can't stand the idea of that.  Could we?

Just because someone can see that something is wrong with her as  you say she sometimes says she does, doesn't mean she knows how to fix it or has any real option.

Real skills would be needed to sit through those feelings and she doesn't have them.

Her response to you is a defensive front.  You've said this sad thing that happened between you is all her fault & she's hurt you, and also, that you're gone forever.  She's hurt and sad and doesn't know what to do differently to prevent this from happening over and over.  Her words are the words of someone who carries a lot of shame, cannot take on what you said (a terribly sad thing is all her fault), and wishes you were not going away forever.  It is important not to take the words of someone wBPD explaining their feelings in a situation like this literally.  Don't be hurt that she is emotionless. She isn't.
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HarmKrakow
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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2013, 12:04:21 PM »

It's probably just me, but I don't see any other sort of mail she could reply on the mail from Downandout.

It's a very soft-brief like smashing on to the BPD, where Downandout defends himself, and lashes out at her. There is not much space for her to say, sorry or anything. It's a typical enabling(!) sort of email. Now I am not saying that anyone made a mistake here, but from the POV of a pwBPD it's relatively normal to react the way she did. That's what I think.
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DownandOut
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« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2013, 02:32:32 PM »

Downandout, the way you laid out your experience with and feelings about the woman you love wBPD is eloquent and reasonable and kind.

The problem is -- let's say she agrees with you.  When you said she "just" lets negative thoughts interfere with her feelings, that little word "just" vastly understates the problem.  She does have good feelings for you, no doubt.  But then scary bad feelings arise, in part precisely because she cares for you & is afraid something bad will happen (she'll lose you, you'll realize who she really is & leave her, you'll try to control her -- one of the litany of fears of closeness that pwBPD sincerely have), and she can't stand the idea of that.  Could we?

Just because someone can see that something is wrong with her as  you say she sometimes says she does, doesn't mean she knows how to fix it or has any real option.

Real skills would be needed to sit through those feelings and she doesn't have them.

Her response to you is a defensive front.  You've said this sad thing that happened between you is all her fault & she's hurt you, and also, that you're gone forever.  She's hurt and sad and doesn't know what to do differently to prevent this from happening over and over.  Her words are the words of someone who carries a lot of shame, cannot take on what you said (a terribly sad thing is all her fault), and wishes you were not going away forever.  It is important not to take the words of someone wBPD explaining their feelings in a situation like this literally.  Don't be hurt that she is emotionless. She isn't.

Thank you so much for your response, I really wasn't sure about putting that out there because I am ashamed that I could pour my heart out like that and get that response from someone I thought loved me. I would like to note that I didn't know anything about BPD before I wrote that and I likely would have handled it differently if I did know. Also, I agree with your assessment of her reaction, but it hurts so much knowing that she pushed me to that decision and didn't put up a fight when she knew it was coming. I expected more. When I pour my heart out like that I expect the other person to at least acknowledge my feelings and address my concerns, regardless of whether or not I agree with their ultimate decision and the outcome. I would also like to note that I was angry at this time because a week prior to this note we spent two weeks in Europe traveling and I was a victim of the push/pull dynamic, mostly push. She was detached, emotionless and downright mean during a trip, which I paid for about 90% of, to some of the most romantic destinations on the planet. A person who tells me they love me, now doesn't want to touch me.

Lastly, a week after this heartfelt "letter," she began posting pictures of herself and her new guy (who I assume was being groomed prior to the end of our relationship). It hurts bad, but I don't think she's happy.
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patientandclear
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« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2013, 03:32:47 PM »

You expected a normal response from someone with normal emotional skills & reactions.

pwBPD are not that.  They do not have those resources.

My comments were not to be critical of what you wrote, not in the slightest; but urging you not to read into her response anything like "she doesn't care" or "she wouldn't fight."  Like HarmK said, there wasn't anywhere for her to go from there, if she knew there is something wrong, her negative feelings DO keep taking over, and she doesn't know how to stop that.  You're saying you cannot deal with that, a perfectly reasonable position.  That doesn't mean she knows how to stop it.

I think our own rejection trauma & self esteem issues can lead us to believe, wrongly, that pwBPD have these capacities to hang in there & fight, etc., if only we were worth it.  That's not the case.  If we say that, in order to be with us, they have to just stop being all emotionally messed up, that leads to one conclusion: we can't be together.  Because they are emotionally messed up & it would be extraordinarily hard to change that.  They aren't making a choice here, choosing not to just deal with this stuff.  It's far more complicated than that.

If you want to stay in one of these r/s you  have to do it with acceptance that they have this disorder & they cannot choose not to.  The implications are profound & difficult to live with.
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eyvindr
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2013, 08:45:30 AM »

patientandclear --

Thank you for this --

Her response to you is a defensive front.  You've said this sad thing that happened between you is all her fault & she's hurt you, and also, that you're gone forever.  She's hurt and sad and doesn't know what to do differently to prevent this from happening over and over.  Her words are the words of someone who carries a lot of shame, cannot take on what you said (a terribly sad thing is all her fault), and wishes you were not going away forever.  It is important not to take the words of someone wBPD explaining their feelings in a situation like this literally.  Don't be hurt that she is emotionless. She isn't.

Your comments clarify so much for me. Like DownandOut, I've struggled horribly with the same confusion. Much introspective wrangling and time spent reading and discussing on these boards in hopes of understanding that why -- the one why about the whole BPDex that has been so sharp and painful for me: if she meant all the things she told me (and I believe that she did, and still does), if she loved me as much as I still believe that she does, why didn't she fight for the r-ship, instead of fighting with me?

Your explanation is so simple, and so clear -- she simply can't. B/c of the disease, she's ill-equipped. The confusing ambiguous reactions and unemotional responses to us pouring out our emotions and making last-ditch efforts to convey the depth of our love for them, to them -- they aren't so much deaf as they are emotionally tone-deaf, maybe - ?

Just wanted to say that this really helped me to read. Thank you.

e.
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"Being deceived in effect takes away your right to make accurate life choices based on truth." -- waverider

"Don't try the impossible, as you're sure to become well and truly stuck and require recovery." -- Vintage Land Rover 4X4 driving instructional video
DownandOut
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2013, 12:33:10 PM »



Your explanation is so simple, and so clear -- she simply can't. B/c of the disease, she's ill-equipped. The confusing ambiguous reactions and unemotional responses to us pouring out our emotions and making last-ditch efforts to convey the depth of our love for them, to them -- they aren't so much deaf as they are emotionally tone-deaf, maybe - ?[/quote]
I agree, I suffered for years ruminating about the "ambiguous reactions and unemotional responses" and how my expressions of my depth of my love for her all seemed to fall by the wayside. But I realize now, as I felt then, that something deep inside of her is off and nothing I do or say can fix it. It's a helpless feeling, but I must come to terms with it. Thank you everybody for your responses.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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eyvindr
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2013, 01:24:49 PM »

Hang in there, DownandOut. Sounds like you've made real progress.

e.
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"Being deceived in effect takes away your right to make accurate life choices based on truth." -- waverider

"Don't try the impossible, as you're sure to become well and truly stuck and require recovery." -- Vintage Land Rover 4X4 driving instructional video
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