Will We Still Want to Help Them When We are Over Them?

[Waifed]

I feel that I am progressing pretty well in the past couple of weeks. I still think about her quite a bit, but I know that I would never have an intimate relationship with her again.  I know that therapy would take her years (or may never work at all) and I will have moved on romantically.

My problem is I still would give my life savings to get her the help she needs to free her of some of her demons. I am capable financially of paying for her therapy, but she is is not. The major issue is that she is high functioning and refuses to admit she needs therapy so this is a mute point anyway.  I truly believe that she knows she will never have a normal life but fears the stigma of being in therapy.

I just feel like everyone in her life to this point has understandably abandoned her and I don't ever want to turn my back on her if she ever admitted she has a problem. She is only 29 years old with a long miserable life in front of her.  Her family is not capable of paying for any therapy at all. 

I know it is the caregiving nature in me that wants to help her.  Should I just let it go and let her continue her destructive patterns?  Will I still feel this urge after I am completely healed?  It just kills me that she is suffering inside and will not admit it to anyone. (In retrospect, I believe some of the things she told were an unconscious attempt at reaching out)

I guess time will tell.  Thoughts?  Do others feel the same about their uBPD or BPD that refuse therapy?

[shadowman]

In my case... .no. Im completely over her and all of this.

[snappafcw]

Honestly if my ex approached me for help and she was serious I would. I'd even pay for her therapy because I know no one else around her will support her. She has an enabling best friend who is more interested in herself and although her family loves her they are incredibly selfish.

That does not mean I would ever get back together with her.

[Waifed]

Honestly if my ex approached me for help and she was serious I would. I'd even pay for her therapy because I know no one else around her will support her. She has an enabling best friend who is more interested in herself and although her family loves her they are incredibly selfish.

That does not mean I would ever get back together with her.

I'm glad I am not the only one. It's really a mute point anyway I am sure.

[Mutt]

I just feel like everyone in her life to this point has understandably abandoned her and I don't ever want to turn my back on her if she ever admitted she has a problem. She is only 29 years old with a long miserable life in front of her.  Her family is not capable of paying for any therapy at all.

 

Maybe she'll finally seek help once she hits rock bottom. 

[peas]

I am done with high-risk investments.

[imstronghere2]

Uhh, NO!

If my exwBPD was on fire, I wouldn't pee on her to put it out.   It would be a waste of good pee.

[Waifed]

I am done with high-risk investments.

. I wouldn't look at it as an investment.  I would expect nothing in return.

[PrettyPlease]

I know that therapy would take her years (or may never work at all)... .[snip]

My problem is I still would give my life savings to get her the help she needs to free her of some of her demons. I am capable financially of paying for her therapy, but she is is not. ... .[snip]

Do others feel the same about their uBPD or BPD that refuse therapy?

I've had these thoughts over many years about my uBPDexgf, who I have maintained LC with (usually, with a couple of periods of NC when she went off the deep end and began being abusive to me again).

I see three linked things to caution both of us about:

1) The need to provide our money for this person who, after all, was abusive to us and who failed to be helpful to us in a normal way, may be driven by the original traumatic bond; in other words, is itself likely part of the pathology of the relationship. There are hundreds of millions of people in the world who are better risks for our philanthropy, with better odds of actually helping somebody.

2) Even to the degree that we have a disinterested, balanced understanding of their need and are rooting for them to overcome the disaster that life has laid out for them, we have to be realistic about what usually happens when BPDs go to therapy. They usually stop, AFAIK from my reading.

3) And if we're providing the money, and emotionally invested in the outcome (traumatically or not), then won't it make sense for us to attempt to help the situation by choosing the T, or debriefing what happens in the sessions, or finding another T if that one doesn't work, or... .--In other words, I believe it would be hard for us to just write a cheque and hope for the best. More likely we'd recycle with the ex, in some form. And any form is likely to be THE form, I fear.

I don't know all this; just thoughts. But I think I'm closer to Mutt's response. Maybe she'll hit rock bottom, and start getting therapy. I hope so. But I think getting involved in it as an ex-partner would be counterproductive to both parties.

PP

[findingmyselfagain]

I feel pretty strongly that my ex was the Waif type. I fell for her seeming vulnerability while taking all of the poisoned arrows and wondering where they came from. Before I knew about BPD, I expected the "love" to come back and I was hopeful and wanted to figure out what exactly was wrong with the r/s.  A few of her friends responded afterward and confirmed her stormy history and how she pretty much thought I was wonderful and were surprised at the sudden ending.

At one time I would have tried to help her out. I've had plenty of time to detach though, and I'd question that if two failed marriages and at least our failed engagement, and a baby born out of wedlock before age 26, haven't woken her up, then what are the chances? The chances are just too good that I"ll end up in the same boat as before, trying to have an adult relationship with someone who just can't.

On the other hand, I can be compassionate from a distance. I think I could personally handle LC, but I don't see communication ever truly being productive between us. It likely never was. Maybe they really do have to hit rock bottom to wake up and smell the coffee. I saw up close just how hurt she was. It's hard to see someone you love continue to hurt themselves and others. Maybe the only healthy thing to do is to let the Universe take its course one way or the other?

[Ironmanrises]

Will we still want to help them when we are over them... .?

Well for me... .

I tried to help her... .

When I let her back in... .

For Round 2... .

And that... .

Got me this... .

5 months later... .

If I couldn't help her... .

When I was with her... .

I will not be able to help... .

When I get over her either.

There is no helping them.

[Waifed]

Will we still want to help them when we are over them... .?

Well for me... .

I tried to help her... .

When I let her back in... .

For Round 2... .

And that... .

Got me this... .

5 months later... .



If I couldn't help her... .

When I was with her... .

I will not be able to help... .

When I get over her either.

There is no helping them.

I am afraid you are correct.  It hurts me so much to know how miserable of a life she has ahead of her.

Findingmyselfagain,

Your words make since.  I still have healing ahead of me and maybe with that I let her go completely.  It is her responsibility to seek help, not my job to convince her.  I have to let her go... .This makes me miss her and makes me so so sad  :'(

[winston72]

Hey Waifed…I facilitated and paid for therapy for my ex about two years ago.  She went to therapy because I recommended it, she was hurting and I think it enabled her to feel a bit better about herself without having to get too deep into her issues.  Perhaps that is not fair, and feeling a bit better about oneself is a good reason to go to therapy!  I mention this only to illustrate that I felt this urge and went forward with it.  This was after discovering her infidelity and lying to me.  I told her that she had made awful decisions and needed help.  She agreed.  She did not had the money for therapy, so I paid.

The therapy was also a way for me to stay connected to her.  It was a way for me to extend myself to her, practically and with love…and at a time that I probably should have been distancing myself from her.  It added to confusion in my emotional development.  By being "bigger than it all" I avoided some of my pain and helped her to avoid some accountability for her actions.  And it was all in the name of doing the right thing. 

Would I offer to pay for it now if she asked?  I would be very tempted, I must say.  But I think the healthy response from me would be to examine closely why I would pay and to act accordingly.  If I was doing it to have some hope of being with her or maintaining some connection, than the loving thing to do for her and for me would be to decline. 

[ucmeicu2]

I feel that I am progressing pretty well in the past couple of weeks. I still think about her quite a bit, but I know that I would never have an intimate relationship with her again.  I know that therapy would take her years (or may never work at all) and I will have moved on romantically.

My problem is I still would give my life savings to get her the help she needs to free her of some of her demons. I am capable financially of paying for her therapy, but she is is not.

hi, clarify, please? 

1) are you financially set, and would be using money that you have no other need for?  or is it your life savings? 

2) why are you still so invested that you'd give your life savings (even if u meant that figuratively it's still a 'telling' statement)?

and yet, even as i ask u those questions i wonder about such things as love... .does it have a beginning and an end... .  does love ever really die, doesn't it live forever?  isn't it ok, from a humanitarian POV, to help a person out?  then again, at what cost to you (and i'm not talking about $$$ now)?

i guess part of your question is, when i have healed, and the anger is gone, will there still be feelings of love?  can i have them without acting on them?  would it be safe, at that point in time, to have contact?   will i have eternal love for my xBPDgf?  can i afford to?  can i afford not to (as in: anger = stress = suffering & death)?  can't i have love for her without it being needy/codependent/or in any way expecting/wanting to be in anything more than platonic r/s?  grahhhh  confusing issues brought up by your query  !

[Waifed]

I feel that I am progressing pretty well in the past couple of weeks. I still think about her quite a bit, but I know that I would never have an intimate relationship with her again.  I know that therapy would take her years (or may never work at all) and I will have moved on romantically.

My problem is I still would give my life savings to get her the help she needs to free her of some of her demons. I am capable financially of paying for her therapy, but she is is not.

hi, clarify, please? 

1) are you financially set, and would be using money that you have no other need for?  or is it your life savings? 

2) why are you still so invested that you'd give your life savings (even if u meant that figuratively it's still a 'telling' statement)?

and yet, even as i ask u those questions i wonder about such things as love... .does it have a beginning and an end... .  does love ever really die, doesn't it live forever?  isn't it ok, from a humanitarian POV, to help a person out?  then again, at what cost to you (and i'm not talking about $$$ now)?

i guess part of your question is, when i have healed, and the anger is gone, will there still be feelings of love?  can i have them without acting on them?  would it be safe, at that point in time, to have contact?   will i have eternal love for my xBPDgf?  can i afford to?  can i afford not to (as in: anger = stress = suffering & death)?  can't i have love for her without it being needy/codependent/or in any way expecting/wanting to be in anything more than platonic r/s?  grahhhh  confusing issues brought up by your query  !

I wouldn't give up my life savings   I may be a little crazy right now but I'm not stupid

I know I am not over all this yet and I just can't get the helping her part out of my mind. It is silly I guess, but I think what I really wonder is how far along in the healing process I am.  If I was further along would I even care about helping her?  I don't think I will always have feelings for her. I don't have these feelings for any of my former girlfriends and I am friends with a couple of them including the one that truly broke my heart in college.

I just want this crap to get over with!

[Waifed]

Hey Waifed…I facilitated and paid for therapy for my ex about two years ago.  She went to therapy because I recommended it, she was hurting and I think it enabled her to feel a bit better about herself without having to get too deep into her issues.  Perhaps that is not fair, and feeling a bit better about oneself is a good reason to go to therapy!  I mention this only to illustrate that I felt this urge and went forward with it.  This was after discovering her infidelity and lying to me.  I told her that she had made awful decisions and needed help.  She agreed.  She did not had the money for therapy, so I paid.

The therapy was also a way for me to stay connected to her.  It was a way for me to extend myself to her, practically and with love…and at a time that I probably should have been distancing myself from her.  It added to confusion in my emotional development.  By being "bigger than it all" I avoided some of my pain and helped her to avoid some accountability for her actions.  And it was all in the name of doing the right thing. 

Would I offer to pay for it now if she asked?  I would be very tempted, I must say.  But I think the healthy response from me would be to examine closely why I would pay and to act accordingly.  If I was doing it to have some hope of being with her or maintaining some connection, than the loving thing to do for her and for me would be to decline. 

I concur.  I have zero hopes of reviving our relationship.  It is pointless. I would only do it for her well being, no strings attached. She worked for me for 6 years and I am older than her so I still kind of feel responsible for her.

[ThanksForPlaying]

I know I am not over all this yet and I just can't get the helping her part out of my mind. It is silly I guess, but I think what I really wonder is how far along in the healing process I am.  If I was further along would I even care about helping her?

A lot of us are helpers, for various reasons.  Someone posted a link to a book on here - Codependent No More.  I'm halfway through it right now and it's a great read to work through these helping tendencies.  There's a quote in the book that "if you put me in a room with ten beautiful women, I'll fall in love with the one who has the most problems."  That's me. I just don't get excited in a relationship unless there are some issues to deal with.  But it's a fixable problem - I think much more fixable than BPD.  I'm working on myself for a change.

[winston72]

Love that quote, ThanksforPlaying!  Hate to admit it, but that is me.  Ugh!

[Iwalk-Heruns]

She would have to be the one that truly wanted the therapy and it came from her. Even then most leave therapy because it is just too long and hard and they will not do the work. Even if they did it would take years.

My ex agreed to go to therapy as a condition when I went back to him and he lasted about 7 sessions. He loved the therapist at first and then he made him wait for 20 minutes a couple times so he painted him black and never returned.

I actually believe now that going to therapy was just a ruse on his part to keep me on the hook for a while.

[Learning_curve74]

My problem is I still would give my life savings to get her the help she needs to free her of some of her demons. I am capable financially of paying for her therapy, but she is is not.

Giving your "life savings to get her the help she needs" sounds like wishful thinking to me. What would be your goal? Would you be crushed if all that therapy didn't change a thing? Because that is one of the very likely outcomes.

peas saying she's "done with high risk investments" sounds like she's looking out for herself instead of being enmeshed, so maybe that's one answer to your original question of, "Will we still want to help them when we are over them?"

I just feel like everyone in her life to this point has understandably abandoned her and I don't ever want to turn my back on her if she ever admitted she has a problem.

Everybody abandoned her? Don't you mean she pushed everybody away?

I know it is the caregiving nature in me that wants to help her.  Should I just let it go and let her continue her destructive patterns?

What do you mean "let her continue"? She is not your child to reprimand or send to her room, is she? Sometimes we call it caretaking, sometimes they call it controlling, and the truth of the matter is very possibly somewhere inbetween or even perhaps both are true.

My exBPDgf had been diagnosed and did therapy in the past but quit. One of her exes was like you, Waifed, and offered to pay for her to go back to therapy after her and I were together. As far as I could tell, she never did, and I see that she just strung him along. She is a high functioning and self aware waif, but she does not believe that she can change; therefore, she cannot change! Change starts with the belief and hope that it might be possible. By default you cannot succeed at something you think is impossible, the belief that it's impossible is self-sabotage. If you thought something was impossible, you wouldn't make the attempt or you would only make a half-hearted attempt destined to fail.

I'm not sure why you should offer to help someone that doesn't want your help, or at least not the help that you want to give her. 

[thisyoungdad]

I am glad to read through this post because I think about this a lot. Currently my ex is in a position she doesn't need help, she still manages to have a good job and such. However many people, myself included, can see the misery that awaits her as she continues to run.

So I have long suspected at some point I will be called upon to help her in some way that is large, or she may not specifically call upon me but she will need some big help and for the sake of my daughter I will help because the ex will have no one to help her. Her parents are already in their early 70's and she goes through friends fast. So since she is the mother of my precious daughter I would base part of my decision on that fact.

She hurt me horribly and still does although I can say sometimes I am grateful because not as bad as some of what I read here. For me I wouldn't say no immediately. I would want to help and with counsel I could see myself helping in certain cases if I could do so in a way that was healthy and safe for me, that would be key for me. I don't hate her, nor wish her anything bad. It is all very subjective to me so I can't say for sure yes or no. It has been helpful reading other people's thoughts.

[laelle]

"Want", maybe... .for me its sometimes yes and sometimes no.  Then I have to ask myself... .

Do I want a relationship where I am the "caretaker" of someone who will not spare me an ounce of empathy when I need it?

Do I want a relationship where I am criticized, demeaned and demonized.

Do I want a relationship where I can not trust or be of equal value?

I "want" the good times, but there could never be so many good times as to balance the total destruction of self.

[Waifed]

I know I am not over all this yet and I just can't get the helping her part out of my mind. It is silly I guess, but I think what I really wonder is how far along in the healing process I am.  If I was further along would I even care about helping her?

A lot of us are helpers, for various reasons.  Someone posted a link to a book on here - Codependent No More.  I'm halfway through it right now and it's a great read to work through these helping tendencies.  There's a quote in the book that "if you put me in a room with ten beautiful women, I'll fall in love with the one who has the most problems."  That's me. I just don't get excited in a relationship unless there are some issues to deal with.  But it's a fixable problem - I think much more fixable than BPD.  I'm working on myself for a change.

[/quote

You have just described me... .

[findingmyselfagain]

Waifed,

I think I'll always think of it as a sad love story. I hoped to love her and her baby daughter and start a family. It seemed like exactly what I was looking for. I recognize it now as one of those textbook relationships with a pwBPD. It's been almost three years since our official break-up. I wrote her a letter several months after the b/u trying to explain the depth of my feelings. I actually made friends with pwBPDs, one on a blog and one in a local support group while I was trying to figure out what happened. She was responsive but it wasn't long before I was ignored and lashed out at again. Since then I've decided to try to put the hurt as far behind me as I can. I doubt I could ever really talk to her because my expectations for the r/s were so high and I was cut off so quickly. I think she was as honest with me as she could be... .admitted she was extremely insecure and acted extra pouty and misbehaved to get what she wanted. Of course I'm not sure exactly what all of that meant... .but I do believe she's a very scared little girl at heart. It really is sad, but what can anyone do but her?

My way of handling it now is just to have compassion for her from a distance, not to take it personally, and hope that someday she's able to heal. Until then, I've filed it as one of those sad parts of life that just happens. I value the good parts of the relationship and the part of her that really wants to love and be loved, but just can't. The sadness is still there for me but has lost the worst of its sting. Dating has been difficult, but I'm starting to warm up again and regain my compassionate side. Healing takes time. It's important to keep moving in a positive direction.

[Waifed]

My problem is I still would give my life savings to get her the help she needs to free her of some of her demons. I am capable financially of paying for her therapy, but she is is not.

Giving your "life savings to get her the help she needs" sounds like wishful thinking to me. What would be your goal? Would you be crushed if all that therapy didn't change a thing? Because that is one of the very likely outcomes.

peas saying she's "done with high risk investments" sounds like she's looking out for herself instead of being enmeshed, so maybe that's one answer to your original question of, "Will we still want to help them when we are over them?"

I just feel like everyone in her life to this point has understandably abandoned her and I don't ever want to turn my back on her if she ever admitted she has a problem.

Everybody abandoned her? Don't you mean she pushed everybody away?

I know it is the caregiving nature in me that wants to help her.  Should I just let it go and let her continue her destructive patterns?

What do you mean "let her continue"? She is not your child to reprimand or send to her room, is she? Sometimes we call it caretaking, sometimes they call it controlling, and the truth of the matter is very possibly somewhere inbetween or even perhaps both are true.

My exBPDgf had been diagnosed and did therapy in the past but quit. One of her exes was like you, Waifed, and offered to pay for her to go back to therapy after her and I were together. As far as I could tell, she never did, and I see that she just strung him along. She is a high functioning and self aware waif, but she does not believe that she can change; therefore, she cannot change! Change starts with the belief and hope that it might be possible. By default you cannot succeed at something you think is impossible, the belief that it's impossible is self-sabotage. If you thought something was impossible, you wouldn't make the attempt or you would only make a half-hearted attempt destined to fail.

I'm not sure why you should offer to help someone that doesn't want your help, or at least not the help that you want to give her. 

Thanks for your honesty.  I know you are right.

[Knowingishalf]

This is a deep question and I am perhaps still too deep in it to answer the right way.  I am detaching and leaving and yet I am still making arrangements so that her life can keep moving.  Even after all the devastation and pain caused.  I arranged for her to get a new car at my expense and so on.  I don't know why I am doing this either.  I just feel this powerful obligation after marriage that I need to keep her floating even if that is just so she is around for your daughter.  So even though I know it is over I am still putting out so much energy to help her.  I guess the real question here is what is wrong with me.

[PrettyPlease]

My way of handling it now is just to have compassion for her from a distance, not to take it personally, and hope that someday she's able to heal. Until then, I've filed it as one of those sad parts of life that just happens.

PP

[PrettyPlease]

So even though I know it is over I am still putting out so much energy to help her.  I guess the real question here is what is wrong with me.

Yes. I did this for decades with uBPDexgf. It wasn't until my mother died and I came to this site and learned that she was probably a uBPD also that I began to learn about my own hooks that fed into my (several) relationships with pwBPD.

Finding out the mechanism of what I was doing, and so understanding myself better, and then being able to be confident that I won't do it again, has been one of the more rewarding experiences of my life. Right up there with physically getting away from pwBPD -- and probably in the long run, more important, because I kept having to get away over and over again.  Now I have real reason to hope that won't happen again. 

So congratulations on getting to the point of looking directly at this part of the dance!

PP

[hopealways]

My answer is: NOPE!