I feel corrupted.

[bruisedbattered]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBWcWh1Giqo


Ode To Ironmanfalls:

We fall, we rise.

We starve, we feed.

On the reserves of fat that,

keep us alive.

We are shells of what we were

falsely led into heaven

just to be told wrong key.

led to the oasis,

an oasis of putrid toxic source.

corrupted we are, damaged of course

wounds will heal

our hearts we must steal.

take back what is ours,

take back what must be,

our key to love,

a love that will be.

will be free from insanity,

a love we can see

a love we deserve

love for you and me.

[Skip]

It's been 4+ months of NC, since my exUBPDgf left me for the second time. In comparison to the first time she left me, the pain I have felt and am still feeling in the aftermath is far more intense.

The hardest thing to understand in these breakups is that, often, the injury is  not coming from her  - it is coming from us.  It takes time to get our hands around this, but at least plant the seed and explore this as one possible answer.

If I remember, your relationship was a friendship that evolved into a 90 day on, 90 split, 120-180 days on, now 120 days split.  And that you had serious bouts with depression in 2009 and 2010 - before this relationship.

So, was this relationship possibly a rebirth from a dark time in your life?

Breaking Up Was Never this Hard

Is this because you partner was so special?

Sure they are special and this is a very significant loss for you - but the depth of your struggles has a lot more to do with the complexity of the relationship bond than the person.

In some important way this relationship saved or rejuvenated you. The way your “BPD” partner hung on to your every word, looked at you with admiring eyes and wanted you, filled an empty void deep inside of you.

Your “BPD” partner may have been insecure and needy and their problems inspired your sympathy and determination to resolve and feel exceptional, heroic, valuable.

As a result, you were willing to tolerate behavior beyond what you've known to be acceptable. You’ve felt certain that “BPD” partner depended on you and that they would never leave. However challenging, you were committed to see it through.

Unknown to you, your BPD partner was also on a complex journey that started long before the relationship began. You were their “knight in shining armor”, you were their hope and the answer to disappointments that they have struggled with most of their life.

Together, this made for an incredibly “loaded” relationship bond between the two of you.

https://bpdfamily.com/tools/articles9.htm

[allweareisallweare]

Ironman, naturally, but I can move on and up - it's a bit like standing on a ledge halfway up a mountain - we're scared, and all we have to fall back into is a black hole of a past. But... .do we feel we could really stop what is really a 200km/ph freight train, i.e a mental disorder? We can't, it will run its course, and we - I say we because I know how you feel, sir - are just unlucky; it's odds. We can say well there were numerous  red-flags, "I could have done this!" we say to ourselves BUT the truth is what happened happened and although we deal with the fallout, it's temporary.

I do not like the way it has stunted your creativity, Ironman, that is something I hope you can cure in time since that aspect of corruption -again out of your control - is denying you a potential outlet to cure/heal - I always  thought it helped with the writing of mine.

I'm three months complete no contact nearly - you are a month advanced on that -it gets scarier and scarier, like walking down a path into a woods would, the deeper you go, the scarier it gets, but one day you'll get out of  those woods, be happy... .

I had a weird dream last night - I swear, I went into our holiday apartment  and the rebound was there and I whispered: "What do you know about BPD, do you know she has it, look what you're getting yourself into;" and then he metamorphosed into a cat, my favourite animal! That's the snapshot from 3months NC.

[bruisedbattered]

keep writing.  its the best therapy out there, and its free. I miss your poetry.

[fromheeltoheal]

Would explain why I feel like I have awoken in a world of sh¥t. Probably explains why my artwork has not returned to me, why I can no longer draw. I am no longer the same mentally.

Hey man.  Try reframing those beliefs so they aren't permanent, like why I can't draw like I used to yet and I am not yet the same mentally

Making your current situation permanent puts the brakes on moving forward and healing.  You've only been out 4 months, it's early.  One thing that helps me is to focus on a bright future without her; one way to get stuck is to get stuck in a timeframe, past, present, future, and it's easy to get stuck on the past when we're focusing on the failed relationship.  Of course it's necessary to focus on it as we purge and heal, but at least start focusing on the future as well.

Plus, great artists usually don't get great until they've had significant life experience that they can channel into their art; sure, that young whippersnapper's got skills, but where's the depth, where's the emotion?  That comes from time in the saddle; just think what your artwork will look like once you integrate your experience and its healing into it.

[ShadowDancer]

No pain, no gain.

Although at a certain point a man must not judge his worth by the woman on his arm but by the woman who is not.

[Lao Tzu]

Dear IMF,

     I noticed the change in tenor, style and decreased frequency from you and was wondering what was up. I'm generally not a big fan of the Stages of Grief thing, but I do accept that there are stages even if no one knows anyone else well enough to predict what theirs might look like.  To me, this sounds like you're genuinely starting to accept what happened.  All of you, that is, not just the rational part.  That is a big step towards getting to where this r/s will end up -- something you can put away on a shelf yourself.

     If I can suggest some arm-chair psychology, you might want to work on the need to be perfect that underlies the tremendous shame you're feeling about being tainted.  You would never judge anyone else so harshly as to suggest they had been corrupted by loving a pwBPD, would you?  Yet you seem to feel that way about Ironman.  This trait in us is almost always present, and getting to where you begin to understand where it came from and how you can mature a bit more within your personality will help you more than you could know.  By the way, your brain is working overtime to figure out a lot of stuff right now.  Let's not pick on it too much for not producing art at present.  When you get to the point of understanding what I've suggested you'll be so full of certainty in knowing a truth most people never even consider that you'll be creating art again like mad just to try to explain it.

LT

     

[Ironmanrises]

The depression I went through in 2009, 2010 in both years was accompanied by 2 suicide attempts by me. My artwork, the very fact that I have this talent to draw, was discovered in a psych ward that I was in following my 2nd suicide attempt(30 day stint). That artwork after I was released from psych ward really helped me heal from those 2 horrible points in my life. It literally saved me. Kept my mind here. Was my coping mechanism as I healed. I encountered my ExUBPDgf as I was really healing in 2010.

Was this relationship a rebirth of that dark time? I don't know if my answer will make any sense, but here goes: Maybe a rebirth of a different type of dark time(meaning I haven't been suicidal at the end of both rounds) so in regards to that, I didn't descend into that spiral of hell that I had visited back in 2009-2010. A dark time, yes, but not to that level. It has taken all my willpower to maintain that, my artwork would have certainly been helping me here(it helped me after she left in round 1).

Thank you everyone who replied on here. My thoughts are really chaotic.

[ShadowDancer]

Harm, Iron Man,

                     Yeah we are "complicated way out there" fellows... .dats a fact!  

I suppose that's why the crazy ones dig us so big. Moths to the flame. Eh, eh! LOL! Mercy... . 

[maxen]

ironman - a big 'stay strong' to you.

[Skip]

Was this relationship a rebirth of that dark time? I don't know if my answer will make any sense, but here goes: Maybe a rebirth of a different type of dark time(meaning I haven't been suicidal at the end of both rounds) so in regards to that, I didn't descend into that spiral of hell that I had visited back in 2009-2010. A dark time, yes, but not to that level. It has taken all my willpower to maintain that, my artwork would have certainly been helping me here(it helped me after she left in round 1).

Iron'

When I mentioned rebirth, I was thinking in terms of salvation.

Over the years I've noticed that to many men, these relationships were a turning point from a difficult time  - a rebirth of hope and vitality and "life".  Some found a return to youth after a period of feeling their age, some found a return to virility after years of a sexless marriage, some found success after feelings of failure... .was this "hope" after feelings of hopelessness.

The reason I ask is because part of the pain of loosing the relationship is not the loss of "the girl" - it's the loss of the "youth",  "virility", "success", or "hope".

Example: I think of one extreme case type.  A middled aged man connecting with a 20 something "hottie" after a failed, sexless emasculating marriage.  When the relationship fails, he has to face the loss of the relationship but also the reality that he isn't a viral as he was made to feel and that he was basking in a false reality of idealization.  

This is a big loss... .bigger than the girl.   And it can't be recovered.

1. The likelihood of connecting with another 20 something / replacing it is statistically rare;

2. Even if another "idealization" can be created, he'll know what it is this time.

I know of two cases where this ended in completed suicide.

It was a "loaded" relationship bond.  It's not about a "crazy" women - that was just one component in a larger set of circumstances.

If type of model is us (and its not everyone here)... .seeing the bigger picture is important part of healing/recovery.

[fromheeltoheal]

Iron'

When I mentioned rebirth, I was thinking in terms of salvation.

Over the years I've noticed that to many men, these relationships were a turning point from a difficult time  - a rebirth of hope and vitality and "life".  Some found a return to youth after a period of feeling their age, some found a return to virility after years of a sexless marriage, some found success after feelings of failure... .was this "hope" after feelings of hopelessness.

The reason I ask is because part of the pain of loosing the relationship is not the loss of "the girl" - it's the loss of the "youth",  "virility", "success", or "hope".

I think of one extreme case type.  A middled aged man connecting with a 20 something "hottie" after a failed, sexless emasculating marriage.  When the relationship fails, he has to face the loss of the relationship but also the reality that he isn't a viral as he was made to feel and that he was basking in a false reality of idealization.  

This is a big loss... .bigger than the girl.   And it can't be recovered.

1. The likelihood of connecting with another 20 something / replacing it is statistically rare;

2. Even if another "idealization" can be created, he'll know what it is this time.

I know of two cases where this ended in completed suicide.

It was a "loaded" relationship bond.  It's not about a "crazy" women - that was just one component in a larger set of circumstances.

If type of model is us (and its not everyone here)... .seeing the bigger picture is important part of healing/recovery.

I totally agree Skip, although the ultimate meaning has been different for me.  My borderline awoke something in me that had been dormant for a long time, although the relationship was a loaded bond based on fantasy, her with her BPD and me with my low self esteem and rescuing tendencies.

But I want that, in a healthy way.  My borderline was in her 40's, although very young for her age physically, and a teenager mentally and emotionally.  Sure, a hottie in her 20's sounds attractive physically, and is, but I am at a very different stage of life than she would be, so that doesn't hold appeal long term.  Now a healthy gal around 40?  Oh hell yes.  I want what I had with my borderline, or more specifically I want the feelings I felt when I assumed she was a 'normal' girl in her 40's, and the experience gave me hope that I can have it, a true awakening, which has been the ultimate gift of the whole BPD experience.

[Supernova9star]

Ironman,

Thank you for exposing so much of your vulnerability with this thread. I know how hard it is to put it out there, even when you have the protection of the computer screen to shield you. Honestly I feel this is a turning point for you right now.  You are doing more than scratching the surface of your pain and it is helping me and I'm sure others as well to look at our pain. But most importantly I think this is a moment that can create some profound healing for you.

I myself have been flip flopping between denial and feeling shame/guilt since the breakup. But today for the first time, I feel a sense of anger. It isn't strong but it's there. I was so abused by my ex and what gets me is the tender passionate love he would give, but easily could switch into a full blown psychotic raging animal within seconds. Then he would get angry the next time he was seeking intimacy with me and I was withdrawn. He saw it as rejection but I was simply terrified and confused. He had no empathy for that. And that is really making me angry today.

Just a thought... .maybe instead of art, writing is your escape and helping you right now.  I myself am a very artistic person and I have no creative urge left within right now, but maybe the channel is just different for us to provide a more rounded and fulfilling healing process. When creating art, I am always alone and in my head. We all need each other really bad right now. So I say, write ironman... .write like your hands have wings.

You aren't alone. I PROMiSE. I have cried myself to sleep almost every night and sobbed so hard I couldn't stand or breathe. I have wanted to die. Just hold on... .I will if you will.

[Changingman]

Was this relationship a rebirth of that dark time? I don't know if my answer will make any sense, but here goes: Maybe a rebirth of a different type of dark time(meaning I haven't been suicidal at the end of both rounds) so in regards to that, I didn't descend into that spiral of hell that I had visited back in 2009-2010. A dark time, yes, but not to that level. It has taken all my willpower to maintain that, my artwork would have certainly been helping me here(it helped me after she left in round 1).

Iron'

When I mentioned rebirth, I was thinking in terms of salvation.

Over the years I've noticed that to many men, these relationships were a turning point from a difficult time  - a rebirth of hope and vitality and "life".  Some found a return to youth after a period of feeling their age, some found a return to virility after years of a sexless marriage, some found success after feelings of failure... .was this "hope" after feelings of hopelessness.

The reason I ask is because part of the pain of loosing the relationship is not the loss of "the girl" - it's the loss of the "youth",  "virility", "success", or "hope".

Example: I think of one extreme case type.  A middled aged man connecting with a 20 something "hottie" after a failed, sexless emasculating marriage.  When the relationship fails, he has to face the loss of the relationship but also the reality that he isn't a viral as he was made to feel and that he was basking in a false reality of idealization.  

This is a big loss... .bigger than the girl.   And it can't be recovered.

1. The likelihood of connecting with another 20 something / replacing it is statistically rare;

2. Even if another "idealization" can be created, he'll know what it is this time.

I know of two cases where this ended in completed suicide.

It was a "loaded" relationship bond.  It's not about a "crazy" women - that was just one component in a larger set of circumstances.

If type of model is us (and its not everyone here)... .seeing the bigger picture is important part of healing/recovery.

Yes I think this has some truth in it.

For some

For me

I've felt that I have no space left to finally get the love I've always wanted. The rest who knows . The vulnerability I felt and everyone feels is the core shame when the emotional infidelity happens.

[toomanytears]

In fact, the lack of anger actually hurts as it just re-enforces to me that he feels no real emotion ... .at least if he was yelling, screaming or ignoring, I could see that he still had an emotional attachment ... but treating me as though nothing had happened between us is a new level of humiliation ... worse, he behaves as if we are still in the relationship - intimate moments/gestures/conversation but ... a withholding of sex just compounds my humiliation ... yes, Virginia ... there really ARE people in the world who gain gratification from knowing that although they no longer care, you still do.

I don't feel corrupted. I feel discarded. It's as if I'm an inconvenience that has to be disposed of. He has no empathy, has never ever said 'sorry' (we why would he cos it's all my fault!) and is treating me a bit like his secreatary - finding our married certificate, sorting out bank statements etc. Then making 'sweet' comments sbout me... .ugh

I really don't want to be in the same space as him until I get over this... .

[Lao Tzu]

Dear IMF,

    I've read that depression is the 'program' your brain defaults to when your personality is being rewritten to some degree.  If that's true, I imagine you aren't mentally exactly the same person you were before. Why would you want to be that person, anyway?  Life is about growth and development.  

    Can you try to be a bit nicer to the person you actually are?  And please don't catastrophize about your certainly temporary loss of ability to express yourself in art; it'll be there to help you again.  I think you're a lot more than the sum of your talents, anyway, aren't you?  We all are.  

    Maybe you need to find out your 'secret identity', my superheroic friend.  Who are you, really?  An artist?  Surely, but that's something you do, not something you are.  Are you the job you make a living at?  Again, its only what you do. I have some theories about your identity I could share with you, but I want you to figure this out yourself.  There's a real person inside the suit (and it isn't a billionaire playboy).  We're here for you "RealMan" -- and for Ironman until he finds you.

LT   

[damage control]

This is an amazing thread to read ... .it helps remind me that my pain, shame and uncertainty are not only mine, but shared.

I love what SuperNova said: "Write like your hands have wings"

Oh how I long to have wings again ...

[Ironmanrises]

Perhaps my horrible ordeal that I was just coming out of in 2010 and my encountering my exUBPDgf was the collision of 2 seriously emotionally/mentally hurt individuals, me and her. A disaster was the only outcome. I was in no condition to be in a romantic relationship, I should have continued healing, I didn't, i chose instead to pour myself into her. She in turn, filled that void within me. Now I have to contend with all of that. It feels like a mountain in front of me. My art that I constantly refer to was my main coping mechanism, it is why I have relied on it so heavily. A crutch? Yes.

[ucmeicu2]

<cut>  part of the pain of loosing the relationship is not the loss of "the girl" - it's the loss of the "youth",  "virility", "success", or "hope".

Example: I think of one extreme case type.  A middled aged man connecting with a 20 something "hottie" after a failed, sexless emasculating marriage.  When the relationship fails, he has to face the loss of the relationship but also the reality that he isn't a viral as he was made to feel and that he was basking in a false reality of idealization.  

This is a big loss... .bigger than the girl.   And it can't be recovered.

1. The likelihood of connecting with another 20 something / replacing it is statistically rare;

2. Even if another "idealization" can be created, he'll know what it is this time.



I know of two cases where this ended in completed suicide.

skip ~  two completed suicides... .that is incredibly sobering.  my sympathies if those were people you were close to.  

this post hit very close to home for me.  bullseye, actually.  how to pick up the pieces... . it feels overwhelming ~ it was so much easier when it was simply a matter of "that crazy POS xBPDgf used me/abused me/and ruined me; it's all her fault i'm feeling this way"!  

Skip, proper protocol, can i copy/paste this and take it to L6?

[fromheeltoheal]

Perhaps my horrible ordeal that I was just coming out of in 2010 and my encountering my exUBPDgf was the collision of 2 seriously emotionally/mentally hurt individuals, me and her. A disaster was the only outcome. I was in no condition to be in a romantic relationship, I should have continued healing, I didn't, i chose instead to pour myself into her. She in turn, filled that void within me. Now I have to contend with all of that. It feels like a mountain in front of me. My art that I constantly refer to was my main coping mechanism, it is why I have relied on it so heavily. A crutch? Yes.

I can totally relate Iron.  Two unwell people looking to get 'saved' by people incapable of saving.  I've used the metaphor that the whole thing felt like barreling down a mountain road in a car with no brakes, knowing it was going to end in a fiery crash, but ignoring it and trying to enjoy the ride anyway.  No wonder I was stressed the entire time.

I notice your focus shifting from her to you Ironman, which is healing, and good for you!

[Ironmanrises]

<cut>  part of the pain of loosing the relationship is not the loss of "the girl" - it's the loss of the "youth",  "virility", "success", or "hope".

Example: I think of one extreme case type.  A middled aged man connecting with a 20 something "hottie" after a failed, sexless emasculating marriage.  When the relationship fails, he has to face the loss of the relationship but also the reality that he isn't a viral as he was made to feel and that he was basking in a false reality of idealization.  

This is a big loss... .bigger than the girl.   And it can't be recovered.

1. The likelihood of connecting with another 20 something / replacing it is statistically rare;

2. Even if another "idealization" can be created, he'll know what it is this time.



I know of two cases where this ended in completed suicide.

skip ~  two completed suicides... .that is incredibly sobering.  my sympathies if those were people you were close to.  

this post hit very close to home for me.  bullseye, actually.  how to pick up the pieces... . it feels overwhelming ~ it was so much easier when it was simply a matter of "that crazy POS xBPDgf used me/abused me/and ruined me; it's all her fault i'm feeling this way"!  

Skip, proper protocol, can i copy/paste this and take it to L6?

Anything related to that hits far too close for me. That could have easily been me at 2 different points in time, as scary as that sounds. I am just glad that this nightmare for me has not propelled me down that dark tunnel that I was in before, as horrific as that sounds.

[Conundrum]

Example: I think of one extreme case type.  A middled aged man connecting with a 20 something "hottie" after a failed, sexless emasculating marriage.  When the relationship fails, he has to face the loss of the relationship but also the reality that he isn't a viral as he was made to feel and that he was basking in a false reality of idealization.  

This is a big loss... .bigger than the girl.   And it can't be recovered.

1. The likelihood of connecting with another 20 something / replacing it is statistically rare;

2. Even if another "idealization" can be created, he'll know what it is this time.

I know of two cases where this ended in completed suicide.

It was a "loaded" relationship bond.  It's not about a "crazy" women - that was just one component in a larger set of circumstances.

If type of model is us (and its not everyone here)... .seeing the bigger picture is important part of healing/recovery.

Similar model demographically (Me 42-her 26), except the previous failed marriage was neither sexless, nor emasculating. It was a long union and all things change.

No doubt though the notion of loss in this context resonates--but not so much in regards to virility or idealization. The greater loss was the dismantling of a functioning domestic family. My pwBPD came into my life when I greatly needed a helpmate. All things were developing in unison--she becoming my partner, lover, surrogate stepmother to my children and domestic helpmate. These things were all integrated, neither distinct, nor separate.

The loss of the functional whole is what matters. It leaves a void. We all are familiar with the intensity. It is not an abstraction. Yet for me it was not the crux of the loss. It is integrated with having created a life, and family with a pwBPD. I knew the day would come when the dogs of war would be unleashed. Not a glaring surprise, but like Cassandra, foresight does not forestall calamity.

I would like to address, the notion of "seeing the bigger picture." The term "corrupted" in my opinion is linked to "trauma." The degree of trauma we experienced and the method by which we process it varies from person-to-person. When trauma is conjoined with a loss of hope the outcome are often feelings of depression. Perhaps that is what is meant by corruption. Trauma coupled with a feeling of hopelessness. A place of enormous suffering.

If there was a certain way to recover from this corrupted feeling--we would all grab it in a heartbeat. Instead, it is an amorphous process. For me, the saving grace has always been an abiding curiosity. We dwell on one little miraculous planet, existing in the great cosmos. There is much to still love, appreciate, learn and interact with--until the final breath. An external attachment, albeit powerful, and painful when severed--is not the reason for living. That must always be discovered from within.