Opted to stay... But have questions

[Kizza]

Hi there

I've been reading a lot about projection and am a little lost and confused.

My partner soon to be wife will always judge me on how I look, talk, dress u name it itgets picked on. Is this projection? How do I know? Last big blow up she had when I walked out for half the night, she said she was talking to another lesbian whom we had just made friends with. I asked her as to why and she said to set me n the other chick up together so my partner could be alone without anyone. Is this also projection? Or is it a lie? Or is it maybe her trying to tell me in a round about way she wants this chick instead of me now?

Hurtful nitpicking is a daily struggle I'm still learning to ignore from her, but getting confused as to whether she means it or not? Does she mean it or does she not realise she is doing it?

I love my partner and have opted to stay with we no matter how hard it gets. I love her and couldn't imagine being without her. It wasn't a hard choice but a long one. But no other woman will ever have my heart like my partner.

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Seashells]

Hi Kizza,

I just wanted to respond, and say hello.  Others may be able to add more.  I'm sorry you're dealing with put downs.

It's possible your partner is projecting her bad feelings about herself onto you.  Projection in a direct sense (as I've experienced it) is accusations.  As in being accused of lying, or being too sensitive, or ... .fill in the blank, when it's actually the person who is making the accusations doing what they are accusing you of; or are acting in the way they are accusing you of, but stating it's you instead of them.  They are projecting their negative traits onto someone else in an attempt to defuse and re-direct their own shame and / or bad feelings.  

It's kind of a mind warping experience and makes you just shake your head.  So, yes in a way it's possible.

How does the hurtful nit picking make you feel and are you willing to live with this?  Have you had a chance to read the lessons about boundaries?

Lot's of good reading and try not to get discouraged if it doesn't all sink in at once.  Sometimes it's good to re-read, and revisit it.  It's a process and we have to keep working at "getting it" too.  It's not instant pudding once we read it.  The understanding seems to come in bits and pieces and it takes time.

Welcome and hope you'll stick around.   There are a lot of caring people here who can empathize.  

[Kizza]

Hi seashells

Thank you for that. I'm still trying to work my way around this site so I can find the things I need to read to aid me better.

Even the bickering this morning was hell random. But few hours later she is fine it's so very confusing. Trying to learn to cope with the put downs etc is starting to exhaust me to the point my gp today has had to prescribe me a few things to keep me calm n re centre myself.

Most of the time I don't even know what started the fights. She gets smart mouthed and says everything she says is a joke but even the other day the shirt I was wearing wasn't good enough for her to be seen with me by her workmates. Even when I got my official job acceptance the other day I was so excited to tell her and she listened for all of two seconds before making it all about her.

It feels as though if she is happy everyone is happy but when others r happy n she isn't then she needs to drag everyone else down with her.

If I learn to cope better I think I could deal with the nitpicking but I guess the hard part is does she mean it or not when she says it?

One day we talk about having a family n all the dreams the next it's I don't want kids u need to leave if u want them? She wants to drive herself to work but wants me close by. She wants me next to her in bed other times she wants to be alone but when she's alone I need to be there? Is all this common BPD traits?

I've heard a lot about different therapies for BPDs... .Do they work? Which is better? Will it help her understand better even if she is not 100% sure she even needs help some days?

Sorry everyone I have so many questions and so much to learn and I'm trying my hardest to learn to cope and understand her better and what I need to do

[Seashells]

It feels as though if she is happy everyone is happy but when others r happy n she isn't then she needs to drag everyone else down with her.

If I learn to cope better I think I could deal with the nitpicking but I guess the hard part is does she mean it or not when she says it?

This is hard, and a pretty common thing many of us have dealt with I think.  In my experience it's more about the pwBPD feeling bad about themselves and using poor coping skills, as in trying to make themselves feel better by berating or belittling others.  (tearing down or picking at them).

Do they mean it?  It's really hard to be in someone else's head and know whether they do or not.

I tend to find my pwBPD means things in the moment when they are said, yet may not mean it later.  Their perspective and feelings seem to shift pretty often, which is part of having BPD.

There is a lot of reading to the right------->

The Lessons really answer a lot of questions, and again you may not quite "get it" all at first because it's a lot to understand and absorb. 

It's good you're in touch with your own feelings about things and seeing a gp as needed to take care of yourself.

[Seashells]

One day we talk about having a family n all the dreams the next it's I don't want kids u need to leave if u want them? She wants to drive herself to work but wants me close by. She wants me next to her in bed other times she wants to be alone but when she's alone I need to be there? Is all this common BPD traits?



It's fair to say I've read very similar things very often on these boards.  It's pretty common, and often is about them trying to control situations and control us as partners.  pwBPD struggle to control their own feelings and behaviors and reactions. 

[Stamp]

One day we talk about having a family n all the dreams the next it's I don't want kids u need to leave if u want them? She wants to drive herself to work but wants me close by. She wants me next to her in bed other times she wants to be alone but when she's alone I need to be there? Is all this common BPD traits?

So much of what you describe in your posts sounds exactly like what I've experienced with my partner, and the constant flipping from one extreme to another is really stressful.  I try to roll with the punches and exhibit as much empathy as I can.  I've found that reading everyone's experiences on this board is very affirming.  Even though sometimes it feels like there's no hope, just knowing that other people are having the same experiences and getting through them really helps.  It also helps to see that you are not crazy and you are no alone.

My partner fluctuates wildly between telling me our life together is over, she can hardly remember what she ever liked about me, and professing her deep and undying love for me and excitement that the state we lived in now allows for marriage equality.  These two extremes can happen within hours of each other.  It's exhausting!

Right now we are in a very good place, calm and as peaceful as things get with someone who has BPD.  It gives me hope, things can and do change when one partner makes positive changes.  Read the stuff on the right, it helps!

[Kizza]

Hey stamp

I'm glad there are others out there that seem to have exactly the same issues... .How do u cope? How do u avoid confrontation with ur partner?

The whole marriage equality thing has put her into a state where she talks about marriage more and she evens talks about kids n stuff more as I mentioned earlier. But I just try to be interested enough to not start a fight but not enough to say yep lets finally go ahead with it.

Our wedding was planned for the 30th nov this year but we never went ahead with it and for now I keep putting it off until she has calmed down.

The up and down emotions r very confusing, but I think the hardest thing for me ATM is the lack of love and affection. It's always me initiating things like getting a kiss or even sex. But when I initiate I get turned down. But when she wants anything I have to jump to it otherwise it starts an argument.


Seashells: I am using my phone to use this site so I have always got it on hand. But with using my phone I can't see anything on the right  and I don't have a working computer .

But I think ur right about the whole control thing... .Especially in front of her new work mates or her family... .She seems to treat me nicely but will still pick on me and stuff in front of them. And at home she just treats me like crap when she doesn't feel the need for me to do anything for her. When I'm enjoying me time it all seems to start. So control is a big one.

[Grey Kitty]

I am using my phone to use this site so I have always got it on hand. But with using my phone I can't see anything on the right  and I don't have a working computer .

That would be a reference to the section called The Lessons. You will find LOTS to read and learn there. I think I spent three days reading almost non-stop when I first found them!

Not letting yourself be pulled into a toxic pointless argument will do wonders... .just one thing you will find tips on.

Hang in there!

 GK

[Stamp]

Hey stamp

I'm glad there are others out there that seem to have exactly the same issues... .How do u cope? How do u avoid confrontation with ur partner?

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The up and down emotions r very confusing, but I think the hardest thing for me ATM is the lack of love and affection. It's always me initiating things like getting a kiss or even sex. But when I initiate I get turned down. But when she wants anything I have to jump to it otherwise it starts an argument.

Sometimes I cope a lot better than others ;-)

Seriously, one of the best things for me to remember is to be well rested and get enough 'me' time, so that I have the emotional energy to handle whatever comes my way.  When she starts talking in a way that seems even remotely like it might go 'negative', I practice compassionate listening.  I do my best to display empathy and to make it clear that I am listening, but I do not respond in any concrete way, I especially don't voice any contradictory opinions at that time.  That doesn't mean that I let her roll all over me, I just don't engage at a time when I think she's close to the edge. 

We run a business together, and sometimes she's stressed and in a mood and starts in questioning me about my decisions re my end of the business and gets quite critical.  In the old days I used to respond to her criticisms and accusations, now I just listen to what she has to say and let her get it all out.  She will often go from calm to agitated, to almost losing it, then back to calm, or, if she can't calm down, she will remain agitated but direct the agitation to someone or something else, and eventually the conversation comes to an end.  At that point I will give her some alone time if I can without making it obvious that that's what I'm doing (she hates feeling patronized or being made to feel as though there is something wrong with her, even though she is, at least some of the time, aware that she has a serious issue).  Often enough, the 'problems' she brought up while agitated are never mentioned again, sometimes they are valid concerns or areas where we just disagree, so I will bring those issues up at a later date when all is calm.

The lack of affection and outward display of love is super hard!  We are going through that right now, and I feel your pain.  I don't initiate anymore because I always get turned down, and when she's stressed she has absolutely no interested in any sort of physical contact.  When she has had extended periods of being regulated we've talked about this.  We didn't come up with any wonderful solutions, but it was enlightening to hear her point of view.  When she feels out of control she also feels as though any request or initiation on my part is a strong criticism of her.  She describes it as 'if I was a good partner you would never have to ask for anything, I would always provide what you wanted and you would be satisfied'  even though when she's regulated she understands that this does not really make sense.  So when she's off we just don't have much intimate contact and it sometimes drives me crazy, but we don't fight about it anymore.

For the last six weeks we have had no sex, and virtually no really intimate contact of any kind.  We had problems with a client at work, and we had both our families coming for Thanksgiving, and she is going away for a work related trip (that always is stressful for her) and so she pulled away completely.  I was good for the most part, except one night a couple weeks ago when I was exhausted and just thinking about me and asked her to be cuddly because I needed affection.  She totally lost it and within ten minutes she was screaming that this relationship was over, that we were canceling our Thanksgiving dinner, that she found me repulsive, and that I should pack my things and move out in the morning.  She yelled for several hours and it was brutal.  She took off her commitment ring, the whole nine yards.  I was really upset, but I worked hard at not engaging.  The next morning we did not speak to each other, just went about our day, and by mid-day she had put her ring back on and the entire episode has never been mentioned again.

In the old days I would have argued back at her and we would still be going at it.  This is big progress for us, and a few days later she thanked me for my patience. 

Last night we even had sex, which she initiated and she was very cuddly and intimate for the entire evening/night. 

It is very hard to deal with, but the more you can remove what your partner perceives as 'pressure', the better things will be.

[Kizza]

Wow stamp

That sounds exactly the same as my past few weeks like scaring my the exact same.

I asked for cuddles and she went ballistic so I actually packed my bags and left for a few hours until she started texting to say she wanted n needed me back and she was sorry and all that stuff. Next day it was like nothing happened for her but in my mind is shut off completely.

Few nights ago we finally had sex again after a long dry spell and yeah it was because she wanted it and now she all cute n cuddly again like when we first got together... .So hard for me to figure out her triggers n stuff coz they always seem to change I swear. There is no perceivable pattern.

Most days now I just say very minimal coz I'm afraid I'll say something wrong or do something wrong it's funny how numb it can make one feel though. When all I want to do is show my love and affection... .Being a very emotional person with someone who is so black and white and cold is difficult.

She very rarely is the same person I met 2 years ago but every now and then that person will come back and remind me of who I fell in love with. Her having BPD doesn't change that of course deep down... .But on the surface from time to time I feel myself wondering "what if I left" "is it me causing her to be like this" but I guess that's just when she is throwing nasty stuff at me.

I'm now into the trying stage of just listening instead of engaging... .So I guess ill just wait n see how that goes for now

[Stamp]

She very rarely is the same person I met 2 years ago but every now and then that person will come back and remind me of who I fell in love with. Her having BPD doesn't change that of course deep down... .But on the surface from time to time I feel myself wondering "what if I left" "is it me causing her to be like this" but I guess that's just when she is throwing nasty stuff at me.

Kizza,

Yes, the exact same experience.  I know that the woman I fell in love with is in there, but sometimes I don't see that part of her for so long that I feel completely lost.  She is often completely emotionally unavailable in any way, shape or form.  What seems to me to be the simplest thing, saying 'I've had a bad day, can I have a hug?' even if that bad day had nothing to do with her, is enough to send her spiraling into a rage.  Of course I've learned not to say that now, but I feel it all the same.  And when things are really bad and she is obviously miserable, I wonder whether it's all my fault, whether I should leave because I just make her so unhappy.  She used to tell me that she rarely ever lost her temper until she met me, but eventually I found out from her parents that she's always been what they call 'a challenge'.  

At her worst she is brutally cruel, unforgiving and completely emotionally unavailable, the things she says when she is angry absolutely shock me.  Last night we had a go round, I made a big mistake having to do with our dogs, I was very tired and not thinking and accidentally let one of our females who is in heat out in the yard with one of our males (we are dog trainers and have eight dogs).  I wasn't totally stupid, the male in question is neutered, so there was no possibility of accidental puppies, but it is still hard on them and not something I would normally do.  As soon as it happened and she noticed it, she told me what I had done and i immediately separated them.  I came back into the house feeling really stupid and bad about what I had done.  As soon as I walked into the house she started screaming at me what an idiot I was and on and on about me being irresponsible, a loser, etc. etc.  Mind you, in 30 years of having dogs, I've never done anything like this before, and it's not likely I'll do it again, I felt badly enough without her yelling.  

After a few minutes I told her that I felt really awful at my stupidity and a little empathy would be helpful.  She totally lost it, off the deep end, screaming in rage at me.  She told me to go away, so I went downstairs in the living room for a while then eventually went back up to the bed room and asked her to listen to me.  I told her that I knew I had done something really stupid, and that I felt very badly about having done it, and that i was sorry, but that at the same time, I felt her anger was cruel and that I would like to be forgiven for having made a mistake as everyone makes mistakes.  At first she said that I should leave her and find someone else, that she could not do what I was asking, then she told me to just let it go.  After a bit more screaming from her end, I 'just let it go' and we went to bed.  She was, of course, still furious with me, and continues to be so this morning.  

Sometimes I'm just at my wits end.  I am absolutely in love with her, and I know, in her own damaged way, that she is entirely in love with me.  I know she has a problem, and like any illness, I can't hold her responsible for her symptoms.  I know that with work it is getting a little better, and even when it's not better I am better able to cope with it.  Still, in the back of my mind there's a huge catalog of things she's said in anger that I really have trouble letting go of because her way of dealing with arguments and things that were said is to pretend they never happened, so she will never apologize or even tell me she did not mean it later.  

When I have brought it up at all, she has told me that I should pay attention to her actions, not her words, that words are not all that important.  That's fine and dandy except that her actions at those times are no better than her words.

I realize that, inasmuch as she is aware of the things she has said (and sometimes it's clear that she has no memory of saying them) she feels terribly guilty later and just can't allow herself to think about it.  

I've learned not to put too much weight on anything she says, whether good or bad, because she can easily say the polar opposite five minutes later.

It is hard, very hard, but there are good times and there is a lot of love.

[seh77]

   Kizza and Stamp,

I too have been thru the very same things with my Partner.  I am learning so much from this site that is helping.  You can read my posts and see some of what I have went thru and am still coping with.

I just wanted to stop and say that you're not alone and to hang in there.

I hope ya'll have a good day.

[Grey Kitty]

Still, in the back of my mind there's a huge catalog of things she's said in anger that I really have trouble letting go of because her way of dealing with arguments and things that were said is to pretend they never happened, so she will never apologize or even tell me she did not mean it later.  

When somebody says something horrible like that, it is very hard not to take it personally. We all work at it, but it doesn't all roll off of us, no matter what we do.

And that is why you should disengage immediately when the first hit of the rage starts--to protect yourself.

If you leave before she says something horrible, you don't have to deal with it being added to that catalog in the back of your head!

FYI, the pwBPD usually does NOT like this, as they do get some of their needs met by taking crap out on you... .although it isn't a good solution, and the usually find a better way of coping (self-soothing) if you remove that option from them. So it is likely to benefit her as well, in addition to being certain to benefit you!

Hang in there!

 GK

[Stamp]

If you leave before she says something horrible, you don't have to deal with it being added to that catalog in the back of your head!

FYI, the pwBPD usually does NOT like this, as they do get some of their needs met by taking crap out on you... .although it isn't a good solution, and the usually find a better way of coping (self-soothing) if you remove that option from them. So it is likely to benefit her as well, in addition to being certain to benefit you!

Hang in there!

 GK

Thanks.  Good advice, although not always easy to follow!