They love without measure those whom they will soon hate without reason

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

This was Mutt's signature quote which really resonated for me. It's from Thomas Sydenham a 17th century physician.

I can't get it out of my head.  

I grew to recognise when a black splitting period was coming because my BPDh would do something intensely loving like buy me roses or perfume. Last weekend he came to our house (which he left after 31 years or marriage) and left me a big bottle of Chanel 19 perfume and a case of wine. He used to buy me this on his way back from trips abroad.  The previous week he took our marriage certificate so he could petition for divorce.  Next week... .who knows? It's all very very painful and has thrown me back into the abyss.

[toomanytears]

This was Mutt's signature quote which really resonated for me. It's from Thomas Sydenham a 17th century physician.

I can't get it out of my head.  

I grew to recognise when a black splitting period was coming because my BPDh would do something intensely loving like buy me roses or perfume. Last weekend he came to our house (which he left after 31 years or marriage) and left me a big bottle of Chanel 19 perfume and a case of wine. He used to buy me this on his way back from trips abroad.  The previous week he took our marriage certificate so he could petition for divorce.  Next week... .who knows? It's all very very painful and has thrown me back into the abyss.

[Turkish]

This was Mutt's signature quote which really resonated for me. It's from Thomas Sydenham a 17th century physician.

I can't get it out of my head.  

I grew to recognise when a black splitting period was coming because my BPDh would do something intensely loving like buy me roses or perfume. Last weekend he came to our house (which he left after 31 years or marriage) and left me a big bottle of Chanel 19 perfume and a case of wine. He used to buy me this on his way back from trips abroad.  The previous week he took our marriage certificate so he could petition for divorce.  Next week... .who knows? It's all very very painful and has thrown me back into the abyss.

It seems to work that way most of the time... .mine doesn't "hate" me, I know, but she discarded her emotional romantic attachment to me. She still tries to do nice things for me (folding my laundry, though I try not to leave stuff in the drier, and I certainly don't and never did ask for that, other little things)... .while she continues to conduct an affair from out of our house. She's split a relationship with one healthy person into a 1 dimensional, zero commitment r/s with one person, and a 2-D r/s, some level of adult commitment and responsibility with another person (me). I told her this, verbatim. It's weird, and it freaks me out how disordered and dysfunctional it is. She doesn't see it, not even how it is slowly hurting our children the longer she stays and plays out the "fake" r/s with me. She even wants us to keep going to events as a "family."

Her acts aren't blatant hatred, but in action, they are acts of hate. Lacking a moral foundation since she stopped mirroring my decency, maturity and responsibility, she is ethically adrift now by mirroring a college partier jock with those requisite values. I hope he falls in love with her and gets burned. He deserves it. And I'll be around to watch... .She never had a decent, LT r/s until me. Regressing to "teen lover" certainly isn't moving on to better things, though I've heard her say that very thing to others. Loopy!

[DragoN]

The previous week he took our marriage certificate so he could petition for divorce.  Next week... .who knows? It's all very very painful and has thrown me back into the abyss.

Sorry to read that you are dealing with that. Typical of pwBPD. My exhusband did the same sort of thing many times. The gifts are his admission of guilt without the ownership of the pain he knows his actions are causing you.

She's split a relationship with one healthy person into a 1 dimensional, zero commitment r/s with one person, and a 2-D r/s, some level of adult commitment and responsibility with another person (me).

If you are staying with the pwBPD that is something that the partner is going to have to accept or fall into the abyss that toomanytears mentioned.

Along the lines when is 0 really 0 and 1 is 1? when 0 is not ever equal one, therefore you cannot have 2. pwBPD are empty at the core. Nothing there. Voids that mirror whoever is around them.

If  everything is nothingness and nothingness is everything, then nothing is nothingness and everything is everything. Which leaves you with what in a r/s with a pwBPD?

And a r/s is 3D not 2D. First the one with yourself, 2nd the one with your partner. If your partner is a black hole behind the mirror and the mask, what is the reality of your r/s?

They love without measure those whom they will soon hate without reason

They don't Love in the healthy sense of the meaning of the emotion. It appears that an inverse relationship exists with their capacity to love. The more a pwBPD 'loves' you the worse they will distrust and abuse you. You become their Kryptonite. Which is when the mask drops and the ugly behaviors present themselves in their unbridled glory.

[Changingman]

A brilliant quote, one of the greats.

When I realised the hatred it was an apithany.

Why?

I know now!

I can see every abusive action with clarity, clearly.

[Mutt]

I can't get it out of my head.  

Ahem. Sorry?

When I first joined the boards I googled "BPD quotes" for my sig.

It articulated perfectly an intensely perplexing r/s that I had had for 8 years. Yes I would describe the end of my r/s as rapidly deteriorating due to unjustified rancor. That anger that she couldn't snap out of was unwittingly triggered by myself, because I had finally mustered the courage to start setting boundaries.

I'm separated for 11 months and it saddens me that my ex doesn't have the capacity to weigh the good and the bad that we had and meet somewhere in the middle and treat me as an adult and not  a lightning rod of sorts for her misery and irrational behaviors.

Her mirroring, need or love in the beggining would only show itself intermittently in the later stages if she wanted something. I kept yearning for that "loving" person to come back again the entire time. I kept thinking that we'll turn a corner. Hard lesson learned.

[Ironmanrises]

"They love without measure those whom they will soon hate without reason." The god awful paradox of literal hell that we contend with.

[damage control]

It seems to work that way most of the time... .mine doesn't "hate" me, I know, but she discarded her emotional romantic attachment to me. She still tries to do nice things for me (folding my laundry, though I try not to leave stuff in the drier, and I certainly don't and never did ask for that, other little things)... .while she continues to conduct an affair from out of our house. She's split a relationship with one healthy person into a 1 dimensional, zero commitment r/s with one person, and a 2-D r/s, some level of adult commitment and responsibility with another person (me). I told her this, verbatim. It's weird, and it freaks me out how disordered and dysfunctional it is. She doesn't see it, not even how it is slowly hurting our children the longer she stays and plays out the "fake" r/s with me. She even wants us to keep going to events as a "family."

Her acts aren't blatant hatred, but in action, they are acts of hate. Lacking a moral foundation since she stopped mirroring my decency, maturity and responsibility, she is ethically adrift now by mirroring a college partier jock with those requisite values. I hope he falls in love with her and gets burned. He deserves it. And I'll be around to watch... .She never had a decent, LT r/s until me. Regressing to "teen lover" certainly isn't moving on to better things, though I've heard her say that very thing to others. Loopy!

Turkish - I am in the exact same position - minus the kids - a seemingly superficial relationship with my replacement (at least, it doesn't seem to be what he and I had but perhaps I flatter myself) ... .and a desire to bond with me 'as a person' ... he doesn't seem capable of melding those two things.

[toomanytears]

I can't get it out of my head.  

It articulated perfectly an intensely perplexing r/s that I had had for 8 years. Yes I would describe the end of my r/s as rapidly deteriorating due to unjustified rancor. That anger that she couldn't snap out of was unwittingly triggered by myself, because I had finally mustered the courage to start setting boundaries.

I'm separated for 11 months and it saddens me that my ex doesn't have the capacity to weigh the good and the bad that we had and meet somewhere in the middle and treat me as an adult and not  a lightning rod of sorts for her misery and irrational behaviors.

Her mirroring, need or love in the beggining would only show itself intermittently in the later stages if she wanted something. I kept yearning for that "loving" person to come back again the entire time. I kept thinking that we'll turn a corner. Hard lesson learned.

Good you got out Mutt. Hang on in there. I stupidly stuck around far too long and it's harder to extracate myself both emotionally and financially but I know I'll get there and it will be better. I have my two wonderful kids and that's all that matters in the end.

[Nicco]

I can't get it out of my head.  

Ahem. Sorry?

When I first joined the boards I googled "BPD quotes" for my sig.

It articulated perfectly an intensely perplexing r/s that I had had for 8 years. Yes I would describe the end of my r/s as rapidly deteriorating due to unjustified rancor. That anger that she couldn't snap out of was unwittingly triggered by myself, because I had finally mustered the courage to start setting boundaries.

I'm separated for 11 months and it saddens me that my ex doesn't have the capacity to weigh the good and the bad that we had and meet somewhere in the middle and treat me as an adult and not  a lightning rod of sorts for her misery and irrational behaviors.

Her mirroring, need or love in the beggining would only show itself intermittently in the later stages if she wanted something. I kept yearning for that "loving" person to come back again the entire time. I kept thinking that we'll turn a corner. Hard lesson learned.

I experienced the same.

In the last part of our r/s (so for few months) i saw cleary that the big adoring love that used to be in her eyes while looking at me was gone... .and her sweetness and need to,in ten days she pratically becomed another person... .and start cheating on me... .but sometimes,intermittently indeed,something sweet and lovely returned... .and yes,i can see cleary that was always when she needed something from me... .and she got everything,of course.

Like you i  kept yearning just waiting to have my lovely gf back... .pushing/pulling she took advantage on me everytime she's been in need... .this for me meant to overwhelm every healty boundaries possible... .knowing what i know now,i feel frustrated and disappointed for how much i've been blind and passive... .a puppet in her hands... .i could have been frustrated,painful,bitter,desesparate for her... .she just had to show back a lil bit of sweet affection to obtain everything,everytime.just to find myself broken and abandoned.

[pecia]

Dang, it still never ceases to amaze me how much the stories are similar. The other day - I found a woman's things (earrings, makeup, toiletries) in my BPDh's bathroom - he outright denied he was cheating (yeah right- but was mad I looked in his bathroom drawer). He kept as calm as he can (only moderately mean via text). I was sure to tell him how much it hurt to discover that and phrased my thoughts in the lead anger provoking way I could. I expressed my hurt instead of anger. I didn't hear much out of him for 2 days. Then today - I come out from getting a root canal and he has stopped by and left me a stuffed animal in my car and was being really sweet. ? He claims to love me and want to work it out (we are therapeutically separated with intentions of getting back together) yet here he is carrying on a meaningless relationship with some random woman. It cannot be too involved as he spends 75% of his time at our home with me - having dinner, having sex, acting married. It is the strangest thing ever. I don't know how many affairs he has had but it seems to me that when the thrill wears off he ditches them and resumes his comfortable place with me. If he starts to feel like I might find someone else - there is hell to pay. I guess in his own messed up way - he does love me, otherwise he wouldn't be so concerned with me hurting him again (I emotionally cheated - which he says is far far worse than his countless physical affairs). This site has helped me to see what is going on and what is motivating the chaos and how to not make it worse. Tomorrow he may hate me again. They are consistently inconsistent.  - pecia

[saw_tooth]

It was my gtalk status message for 2 months flat when the relationship imploded and he split me black.

Thomas Sydenham referred to BPD's as hysteriks back then which implies that the disorder has existed since olden times.

I can't help but feel for the partners of those 'hysteriks' back then-the agony,pain and suffering they went through without quite knowing how to deal with it.

I feel privileged and grateful to have a fantastic site and extremely supportive people on the BPD family in this modern era of internet.The resources and support here has been supremely instrumental in helping me heal.

[happylogist]

I agree with MeganK totally.  A gift instead of realizing the destruction and trying to grow personally with a honest intent not to repeat the previous mistakes is not love. It is a gesture to ease the feeling of guilt and self-hatred without any admittance. In a way it is also a bit manipulative - it assumes and requires a nicer treatment for the one who receives the present without deeper acting.

It reminded me House M.D. TV series where he was accusing one of his team members of buying a present to his wife because of feeling guilty as he cheated... .Just my thoughts... .

I think it is important to see the difference between these kind of gestures and real reflections of love and be a bit critical towards them and ourselves as well.

[Changingman]

Morning bird Sunrise filled the room, blinding us

Little rainbows dancing down her tears

One more drink, cigarette, line just one more time

We should get some sleep make some plans.

The temperature dropped to zero

I'd never been loved with such hatred

She'd feel the opposite soon

[toomanytears]

I'd never been loved with such hatred

She'd feel the opposite soon

That's how it is... .

[Changingman]

I'd never been loved with such hatred

She'd feel the opposite soon

That's how it is... .

Oh they hate us, make no bones about that. They are your enemy and their own enemy.

They are infatuated with you

Then

They HATE you.

Then

They hurt you.

Then

Feel bad for a second.

Then

hate you even more

for making them feel bad.

Yuck

[DragoN]

They are infatuated with you

Then

They HATE you.

Then

They hurt you.

Then

Feel bad for a second.

Then

hate you even more

for making them feel bad.

Yuck

Almost tragic if it wasn't their own doing in the first place. Not like they can't get therapy if they wanted. Not that they don't know better, they simply choose not to do better. Don't care who they hurt but can act charming when it suits them. Once you see under the mask, the nothingness that exists, not much to feel but good riddance.

[maxen]

Not like they can't get therapy if they wanted.

according to my stbxw, i needed to get into therapy but she's just the way she is.

[DragoN]

Not like they can't get therapy if they wanted.

according to my stbxw, i needed to get into therapy but she's just the way she is.

Thing is , doesn't matter. Still a win / win. Depends how you want to look at it. If she calls you the "crazy" one, then, she really needs to start asking herself why she is married to you. If you are so terrible, what does that say about her if she chooses to stay? Push/ Pull and abuse you. Leaving is the only answer that matters.

They love without measure those whom they will soon hate without reason

If he was to hate me, he could minimum have made it for a good reason. He didn't have one. We don't have to hate them to leave them. It's not insane to leave those that are driving you crazy with their crud.



I'd never been loved with such hatred

PD love 

[Mutt]

Good you got out Mutt. Hang on in there. I stupidly stuck around far too long and it's harder to extracate myself both emotionally and financially but I know I'll get there and it will be better. I have my two wonderful kids and that's all that matters in the end.

Thank you too toomanytears. I can empathise with your detachment, I'm not out of the woods yet, but I can see myself coming out the other side. The dust will eventually settle. I was blessed with 3 beautiful kids and your absolutely correct. That's what matters most.

Like you i  kept yearning just waiting to have my lovely gf back... .pushing/pulling she took advantage on me everytime she's been in need... .this for me meant to overwhelm every healty boundaries possible... .knowing what i know now,i feel frustrated and disappointed for how much i've been blind and passive... .a puppet in her hands... .i could have been frustrated,painful,bitter,desesparate for her... .she just had to show back a lil bit of sweet affection to obtain everything,everytime.just to find myself broken and abandoned.

I think what counts the most for myself is that I know now to work on my boundaries and to not fall into that idealization trap in the beginning of a r/s again. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. It was crazy making behavior on my part to keep trying the same things over and over, with the same outcome everytime.

according to my stbxw, i needed to get into therapy but she's just the way she is.

I know this one all too well. She's says she can get too emotional, yet I'm crazy. One person has a distinct script that they repeat over and over with different people. I choose to learn from my mistakes.

[damage control]

MIne too says that this is 'just the way he is' (exact words, I kid you not)

In fact his 'tendency' (if you like) of feeling smothered, not wanting to live with anybody, not believing in the word (or concept) of 'relationships', of not wanting to become 'attached' to anyone ... etc ... etc  ... were couched so that he referred to himself as sane. He used that word and he believed it.

Of course, the fact that he espoused this cr^p while simultaneously acting like we were in a relationship, that he was attached etc ... well ... that is 'my problem' or the problem with the other person.

He would call/text/skype all day every day ... profess love ... whisper sweet nothings constantly ... make plans to move across the country ... beg me to never turn away from him ... etc ... but then, at the end, accused me of 'somehow becoming attached'.

Because ... well ... that's all completely sane behaviour right? And anyone who 'misinterprets' his actual actions/behaviour ... they must be emotional and have something wrong with them (emotions and the people who have them are to be feared and left) ... .

Make a woman love him ... deny having done so ... .rinse and repeat.

[ucmeicu2]

In fact his 'tendency' (if you like) of feeling smothered, not wanting to live with anybody, not believing in the word (or concept) of 'relationships', of not wanting to become 'attached' to anyone ... etc ... etc  ... were couched so that he referred to himself as sane. He used that word and he believed it.

Of course, the fact that he espoused this cr^p while simultaneously acting like we were in a relationship, that he was attached etc ... well ... that is 'my problem' or the problem with the other person.

He would call/text/skype all day every day ... profess love ... whisper sweet nothings constantly ... make plans to move across the country ... beg me to never turn away from him ... etc ... but then, at the end, accused me of 'somehow becoming attached'.

Because ... well ... that's all completely sane behaviour right? And anyone who 'misinterprets' his actual actions/behaviour ... they must be emotional and have something wrong with them (emotions and the people who have them are to be feared and left) ... .

Make a woman love him ... deny having done so ... .rinse and repeat.

oh my goodness, reading this, memories flooding back ~ is it any wonder i was confuzed, befuddled, lost?

told me i was her soulmate, The One she'd waited her whole life for ~ later called my husband and told him i was living in fantasy land.

told me she wanted to spend the rest of her life with me ~ later said she wasn't in a r/s w/me and couldn't be in one w/any body.

complained that i was unavailable to her b/c i was married ~ AFTER i had left him for her and moved in w/her.

well "moved in" is up for debate apparently, b/c she invited me to come live w/her, later recanted ~ said i had only been there to pet sit while she was out of town.

put a ring on my finger and asked me to marry her ~ guess she didn't count on me saying yes?  when i broke up w/her (1 time of many) i gave the ring back and she never mentioned it again.

ad nauseum... .  is it any wonder i almost lost my mind?   i began to wonder if she had multiple personalities.  but i guess she doesn't need that Dx b/c between lying and dissociating she's got all her bases covered.

PS ~ yep, mine thought the whole world had gone insane, down the rabbit hole.  i smirked amusedly when she said that, ranting and raving.  little did i know it was she going down the rabbit hole and was hellbent on taking me with her. <phew>

[DragoN]

In fact his 'tendency' (if you like) of feeling smothered, not wanting to live with anybody, not believing in the word (or concept) of 'relationships', of not wanting to become 'attached' to anyone ... etc ... etc  ... were couched so that he referred to himself as sane. He used that word and he believed it.

He is sane. But PD'd. Were he insane, he would be locked up drooling on himself. They are not the same thing.

Of course, the fact that he espoused this cr^p while simultaneously acting like we were in a relationship, that he was attached etc ... well ... that is 'my problem' or the problem with the other person.

What were his actions? Anything besides keyboard dribble and no follow through?

Then it is your problem.

He would call/text/skype all day every day ... profess love ... whisper sweet nothings constantly ... make plans to move across the country ... beg me to never turn away from him ... etc ... but then, at the end, accused me of 'somehow becoming attached'.

What were his actions that required more than sitting behind a computer? Anything substantive? Probably not.

Because ... well ... that's all completely sane behaviour right? And anyone who 'misinterprets' his actual actions/behaviour ... they must be emotional and have something wrong with them (emotions and the people who have them are to be feared and left) ... .

Make a woman love him ... deny having done so ... .rinse and repeat.

Nobody can make you love anything or them. That's your choice. If we are daft enough to fall for a PD? Who is to blame for that?

PD's come in all shapes , sizes , colors and ranges of awareness. Some are excruciatingly aware of their actions and the pain they are capable of causing. Some are deliberate. When you are aware of the games they play. They tend to go buggy.

The Internet and all the new communications, FB, dating sites are the Predators Playground.

Bait and Switch, endless psychological tricks. Learn them. Then throw them back at the silly little PD. Watch what happens.

[Mutt]

Nobody can make you love anything or them. That's your choice. If we are daft enough to fall for a PD? Who is to blame for that?

Met my ex on a dating site. She invited me over to her house without having met me  in public. I thought that was strange. She came from a small town, this was the big city.

She had sex with me that night and said she was on the pill. The next morning she said she had forgotten taking the pill.   She was returning home to her parents a few weeks later.

She always wanted me to come over or she wanted to come over. It made me feel uncomfortable because everything was so quick.

We'd have sex, she'd miss school. She liked the things that I liked. She was easy going and down to earth, much like myself. The day that she left she ends up leaving a box and a love letter behind. I had thought there's something special about this girl. No other person was that into me and she was thoughful of with all of the gifts, acts of kindness, attention etc.

I was being idealized and I fell for it.

I get a call from after she left that she was pregnant. Having being adopted and not knowing who my real parents were. I had thought that I didn't want my child to go through that. I thought that I was trying to do the right thing. Fast forward 8 years. I land on these boards.  

Thanks to her though, it forced me to take a really hard look inside and deal with the childhood issues that I hadn't worked on and were bottled up.

My r/s with her forced me to make a decision. Work on me or continue down this road and have this happen again?

Speaking for myself. I see it as it all happened for a reason. Sadly for her, I got the best end out of the deal.

[damage control]

In fact his 'tendency' (if you like) of feeling smothered, not wanting to live with anybody, not believing in the word (or concept) of 'relationships', of not wanting to become 'attached' to anyone ... etc ... etc  ... were couched so that he referred to himself as sane. He used that word and he believed it.

He is sane. But PD'd. Were he insane, he would be locked up drooling on himself. They are not the same thing.

Of course, the fact that he espoused this cr^p while simultaneously acting like we were in a relationship, that he was attached etc ... well ... that is 'my problem' or the problem with the other person.

What were his actions? Anything besides keyboard dribble and no follow through?

Then it is your problem.

He would call/text/skype all day every day ... profess love ... whisper sweet nothings constantly ... make plans to move across the country ... beg me to never turn away from him ... etc ... but then, at the end, accused me of 'somehow becoming attached'.

What were his actions that required more than sitting behind a computer? Anything substantive? Probably not.

Because ... well ... that's all completely sane behaviour right? And anyone who 'misinterprets' his actual actions/behaviour ... they must be emotional and have something wrong with them (emotions and the people who have them are to be feared and left) ... .

Make a woman love him ... deny having done so ... .rinse and repeat.

Nobody can make you love anything or them. That's your choice. If we are daft enough to fall for a PD? Who is to blame for that?

PD's come in all shapes , sizes , colors and ranges of awareness. Some are excruciatingly aware of their actions and the pain they are capable of causing. Some are deliberate. When you are aware of the games they play. They tend to go buggy.

The Internet and all the new communications, FB, dating sites are the Predators Playground.

Bait and Switch, endless psychological tricks. Learn them. Then throw them back at the silly little PD. Watch what happens.

Actually, he did have follow-thru ... leaving his (then) GF like promised - moving out. Flying me here and paying for accommodation/flights ... .and I actually think that calling/texting etc consistently as in daily IS an action ... .

I disagree about not 'making' people love you ... poor choice of words maybe but encouraging/seducing/manipulating certainly fit. We know when someone is falling for us ... we also know if we have good intentions toward that person - if we reciprocate ... I blame him. Entirely really ... for not being honest, for not telling me sooner that he has a history of doing this etc ...

I am intrigued by your suggestion to throw the games back at them but I have no idea what that really means or how one would go about that ... .?

[Mutt]

I am intrigued by your suggestion to throw the games back at them but I have no idea what that really means or how one would go about that ... .?

I suggest don't play fire with fire. Don't stoop to their level. Leave them to their own devices.

[DragoN]

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

Internet = Predators Playground.

He would call/text/skype all day every day ... profess love ... whisper sweet nothings constantly ... make plans to move across the country ... beg me to never turn away from him ... etc ... but then, at the end, accused me of 'somehow becoming attached'.

Nut case right there.

Better luck next time.

Leave them to their own devices.

... .learn what their devices are to protect yourself. And when necessary, flip them back. See what happens. Don't allow emotions to blind you. Self preservation.

[damage control]

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

Internet = Predators Playground.

He would call/text/skype all day every day ... profess love ... whisper sweet nothings constantly ... make plans to move across the country ... beg me to never turn away from him ... etc ... but then, at the end, accused me of 'somehow becoming attached'.

Nut case right there.

Better luck next time.

Leave them to their own devices.

... .learn what their devices are to protect yourself. And when necessary, flip them back. See what happens. [Don't allow emotions to blind you. Self preservation.

Don't mean to sound/be dense but I still don't follow you here?

[goldylamont]

Internet = Predators Playground.

meh, predators can use any form of communication to find prey. internet dating is new so i think it's being demonized way too much by people who may be naive about it. but there's lots of meaningful relationships and communications being done via the internet. hah, predators didn't just surface when the internet was invented

i have several friends who met their life partners in healthy r/s over the internet. my last healthy r/s i found over the internet. my single one and only abusive r/s i found in "real life"--go figure.

user damage-control is talking about lying and manipulation. you don't need the internet to lie and manipulate. sure, it can be a tool to do so. but as i said, all this existed before any of these forms of communication did.

MeganK it sounds like you've been around the block and feel pretty confident in spotting pwPD issues. I feel a bit more experienced in this too. However it may be unfair to blame someone for not being able to see a pathological liar if they don't have experience with this. I know most of my friends couldn't understand where I'm coming from when trying to explain what it's like dealing with someone with a PD--they make the same mistake I made and anyone would make; assuming they would know it if it was happening to them. I think the adage of "happens once, shame on them. happens twice, shame on you" applies here. Gotta cut a little slack in my opinion unless the person is just a raving PD magnet    

[Aussie0zborn]

I suggest don't play fire with fire. Don't stoop to their level. Leave them to their own devices.

Very good advice. I have been doing that since Day 1 of separation and it works... .it allows you to hold your head high. 

People with BPD have a unique knack of doing things to evoke a reaction from you so that they can victimise themselves and come out of the situation as the victim and you as the perpetrator.

The Greeks have a saying that I quite like... .

"Leave the madman to his madness".

[slimmiller]

I LOVE this comment and the commentary. So many parrallels to my situations and much wisdom imparted.

Turkish and damage control, I got almost the exact same thing to content with. Her trying to play house with me while also slowly acclimating her 'soulmate' (foreign college student half my age) into her life and that of the kids. AFTER, I told her the 'nesting' arrangement will only work with a few understood boundaries. Needless to say after the Holidays the dynamics will change and she is yet unaware.

Pecia, that is so true. Recently in a convo with my ss14 (whos dad now has full custody of since she, exBPD triangulated) I told him the only one sure gaurenteed consistancy is her inconsistancies. That we can count on and one of the biggest reasons why I m heading towards 'parralel parenting'