Which are you? Non reactive | Reactive transpersonal | Reactive counter

[waver]

Hello,

I shared an article about a month ago, sorry for mention it again but it seems to fit to the topic:

"Non-BP is a non-clinical term originally coined by Kreger & Mason in the book Stop Walking on Eggshells. The term has since come into popular usage and describes individuals who are in a consistent, and sometimes significant, relationship with a person exhibiting a Borderline character, aspects of Complex Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (C-PTSD), or a formally diagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). These people can be friends, spouses, lovers, offspring, co-workers, and extended family members, among others
 
While Non-BP is a colloquial expression, and not a clinically defined condition or syndrome, the idea parallels that of the roles that people often take on in alcoholic families, or abusive relationships. It is also consistent with the idea of roles described in co-dependent relationships, such as enabler, counter-dependent, and/or agent. Part of the value of this type of informal terminology is that it helps describe the manner in which others potentially behave when in relationship to a person whose social skills are inadequate, in what ever manner that presents
 
Non-reactive Non-BP When talking about the Borderline relationship, the Non-reactive Non-BP is considered to be a person who interacts with the Borderline character, while not being drawn into, or engaging, the chaos of the disorder.

The Reactive Non-BP, however, both interacts with the Borderline character, and engages the Borderline behavior. This often throws the person off-center, and promotes a kind of parallel emotional dysregulation within them. The Reactive relationship style breaks down into two distinct sub-styles:
 

• Reactive transpersonal-Non  The Reactive trans-Non is an individual who engages the Borderline character, and is drawn only to the chaos of the disorder itself. Rather, than being directly affected, s/he is more apt to stay focused on "cleaning up" after the Borderline personality. This is something akin to the "caretaker/enabler" role found in alcoholic relationships. In both cases, this person is characteristically co-dependent, or set up to be co-dependent in that relationship. S/he acts as enabler, or agent, or both

• Reactive counter-Non The Reactive counter-Non, on the other hand, not only reacts to and integrates the Borderline style, but "reflects" it, as well. This individual is the most negatively affected by his/her relationship to the Borderline personality. Very often, this person will begin to behave in a manner very similar to a person with a Borderline personality. This type of relationship is very treacherous and, when talking about chaotic relationships with Borderline personalities, this is the sort of situation to which most people are referring. This type of relationship often leaves the Non-BP questioning his/her own sanity, and the "emotional hangover" of such a relationship can take a considerable amount of time from which to recover."

www.psychologytoday.com/blog/enlightened-living/200804/perspective-borderline-relationships

[ucmeicu2]

Ah ha, well thanks so much for posting this article, waver! It explains so much. Looks like I am a reactive-non.I imagine most of us here were/are.
 
I think I started as a trans-non (as I really thought I could help her and that we'd have a good life together) but slowly morphed into the counter-non as I became more and more stressed out, more and more confused, more and more unable to let go.  It was made especially horrible because, I didn't realize it in time but she was more invested in staying sick/victim role than in recovering and being healthy/happy.  She eventually told me she was addicted to pain, suffering, and sadness.  
 
So that utter insanity I felt, and this slow journey back to normal 'me' is what they call an "emotional hangover'?  Interesting.  And so glad they don't say you can't recover. They simply say it takes time.  Maybe 'considerable time' but recovery's gonna happen! Such good news for so many of us who have/do feel like this will never end.

I wouldn't necessary run from/push away somebody who exhibits bpd traits in the future because guess what?  Bpd traits are human traits, we all have them, just to lesser or varying degrees.  I will, however, be listening to my gut more, paying attention to the red flags that's for sure.

[Skip]

Can the partners of pwBPD be classified the same way as the partners of alcoholics?

This life coach is modeling the co-dependence in BPD relationships based on the model for co-dependence in alcoholic relationships.

We shot him an email asking for the origins of this theory. We didn't here back.

I'm curious to see the survey results.

[Jbt857]

I'm not sure? I don't find the differences between the reactive trans and the reactive counter to be sufficiently well defined to really know from that?

[dontknow2]

I'm definitely a Reactive Counter-Non-BP and just posted a new comment talking about my experience... .interesting timing. but yes, my 20 year relationship was stuff unimaginable and couldn't be seen in a movie. Although severely damaged, I am functioning.

[ShadowDancer]

Very interesting indeed when you consider the frequency in which members of this board use the term "addicted" to describe the fundamental nature of these specific PD/Non attractions and relationships and also to the subsequent and frequent use of the term of "No Communication" as it is experienced and described very similarly to the sensation of "cold turkey" substance withdrawal.

I'm very curious how the author may respond to this question. Could/would he consider us the "alcoholic" counterpart in the co-dependent relationship or visa-versa?

This question for me has added a simple clarity to the dynamic as I experienced it. She was my drug. I was her fix. The question that remains... .who was abusing the more in the tangled tango, or was it both equally?

[Learning_curve74]

I would say that I started off reactive-trans-non but then was also reactive-counter-non in addition.

This is to say that I was at the start a caretaker/fixer, and then in addition to staying the caretaker/fixer, I also developed my own fear of abandonment, feeling like my emotions were out of control, and not having functional coping skills.

[TakingWingAtLast]

It was most clearly a progression.  I was so naive at first.  Concerned about major depression.  Non reactive to start.  But things got worse!   Soon I was trans non BPD.  Taking care of everything.  Interfering with her over reactions with her kids.  But my head was above it.  But then boundaries were violated.   Again and again.  Police were called.   This obviously sent me to counter non BPD very quickly.  I fought for myself (not physically).   The devaluing always hurt because I have failed in so many ways. But I have come back every time.  I became very unhappy and was more likely to claim I was right than her.  In my mind I fought for REALITY.  And I fought hard for that!  I'm a scientist.  I've been trained for see objective truths and to be skeptical of irrational thinking.   And to know when something doesn't add up.

After the breakup 5 weeks ago now, I discovered that she was uBPD the very next day with my T.    Everything that ever happened fell into place rather neatly.  It was rational under the lens of BPD.  And it was in concert with MY reality about the relationship.   Suddenly the past with her made perfect sense.  It was most definitely an "Aha" moment.  

I'm working hard to get back to non reactive nonBPD so that I can move on.  A lot of work to be done for sure.  So far, so good!

[ucmeicu2]

this is really interesting.  there's enough in this topic to warrant a study or a book. to date, of the 10 people who've taken this poll, 100% checked the "reactive counter Non" box. it seems we all experienced it the same way: as TakingWingatLast so aptly coined it, a progression.  

Edit: after more thought, i realize i went thru every phase:  my progression from non-reactive during our 2 yr long 'casual acquaintance phase' and then sometime during/shortly after the intense 6 week phase where we spent a lot of time together and went from casual friends, to great friends, to in love - i started being a reactive-trans. and then something really ugly began to happen to me as i progressed on into the reactive-counter Non.  it was really the most awful time of my life.

of course it's too small a sampling to come to anything definitively scientific, but what 'casual' conclusion(s) might we draw?  what made us 'progress' and others not, simply the depth of our own sickness/need?  i'm so curious to know what % of people that meet pwBPD walk away VS get a little involved then walk away VS get a lot involved and don't walk away til they're nearly destroyed?  most of here seem to be the latter.

[Skip]

... . course it's too small a sampling to come to anything definitively scientific, but what 'casual' conclusion(s) might we draw?  what made us 'progress' and others not?  simply the depth of our own sickness/need?

Too small and biased  

To me, the categories are one man's (a non-professional) hypothesis.  What I mean by this is that there is no evidence to suggests that the population of relationship partners can be split this way.  If we interview 100,000 people and no one falls into category two - it's meaningless, right?  This is at the root of the DSM - diagnostic STATISTICAL manual.

I don't mean to discredit his idea.  He is crafted it in the likes of a model that is used in Alanon so it has some reasonable basis.  It sounds reasonable - but again, do these categories get it all - hard to say.

What I conclude from it - and I think its the authors point - is that it is not the person with BPD that hurts us - it's how we react to them.

That's a powerful message.  One that took me, in my own healing, a long while to understand.   

[santa]

Reactive Counter Non

LOL... . I see everyone else voted that way too.

[TakingWingAtLast]

Skip,

I hear what you are saying about the "labels" as to whether they are delineated well enough to make sense or be usable.  However, while the labels may not adequately explain the phenomenon that has occurred, it does give us a framework to speak to one another in a way.  I find that it's quite interesting that the group here did identify strongly with one of these labels.

I have my own mixed feelings about whether or not the pwBPD hurts us or not.   For my own part, my expwBPDgf has threatened my work and outed me as a bisexual at a party.   That was her hurting me... . not my reaction.  I'm not sure that I completely agree with the author's idea that our reaction is the only thing that can hurt us.  I'll add that I have lost my step daughter in this process who I love dearly.   This again is NOT my doing but only the pwBPDgf painting me black that prevents me from even conversing with her.   So, I do believe and have clear evidence that pwBPDs DO have the power to hurt.  

Nonetheless, the only power we nons have is our reaction to this.   And that indeed can be hurtful to ourselves, if we fail to respond adequately.   The final outcome is without doubt completely in our power.
<br/>:)

[vortex of confusion]

Interesting thread. I voted "other" because I don't think I can identify with one specific category. Like others, I feel like I went through a progression. I started out as not being phased by much. Then, I went into fixer/protector mode. Then, I reached a point where I was tired and just couldn't keep fixing and protecting and shouldering everything so I went into full on reactive mode and became as bad as or worse than him for a short period of time.