What brings a borderline to their knees?

[Pearl55]

"Hooking up with someone who turn the tables on'em, and makes'em feel exactly what you are NOW."

I wish I had these infos years ago, I knew how to deal with him and took revenge of all these years! It's too late now.

[Popcorn71]

If that is true then I really hope the replacement is worse than he ever was.  Maybe then my ex will have a taste of his own medicine.

The strange thing is though, my ex's  ex wife treated him terribly and he stayed with her until she dumped him for another man.  She aborted his child, had several affairs, caused them to have financial problems and then left him even though he would have carried on in their marriage.  Even now he is friendly with her and wonders why she talks to him so coldly.

I just don't get it.  Is it that the worse you treat them, the more they want you?

[ShadowDancer]

It is the simple disordered paradigm. Same attracts same. Lost boys rescue broken girls, broken girls seek lost boys.

From my personal observations the one thing that brings them to their knees is... . indifference:

              Lack of interest, concern, or sympathy

[heartandwhole]

Hey Pearl55,

Anger and revenge fantasies are part of the healing process, and I can certainly understand wanting to bring someone who hurt you to their knees. 

For me, the problem is that I hurt myself when I do things that cause others pain, so I allow the feelings, but don't act on them.

Do you think there are other feelings hiding underneath your anger?

[seeking balance]

"Hooking up with someone who turn the tables on'em, and makes'em feel exactly what you are NOW."

I wish I had these infos years ago, I knew how to deal with him and took revenge of all these years! It's too late now.

Be careful of pop-armchair psychiatrists who are using your anger and hurt for the goal of their financial well-being.

I have not seen any evidence to this statement in my reading of Marsha Linehan who is undeniably the expert in BPD recovery.  Nor have I seen that in any DSM or DBT related material.

What I do know brings them to their knees is YOU.  The very presence of you, the intimate connection - it is this real or perceived abandonment that brings them to their knees.  Just because their coping looks different than yours does not mean they are not deeply hurt.

I do not know of any credible therapist that uses revenge as a healing platform... . be mindful when you see this on the internet.  Remember idealizing your hurt/lonely/angry without encouraging growth on your part, this is a slippery slope to a rinse/repeat pattern.  I read those folks too in my early learning, wow, did I feel validated... . validation based in false facts or grief... . slippery slope indeed.

Peace,

SB

[Dog biscuit]

From my personal observations the one thing that brings them to their knees is... . indifference:

              Lack of interest, concern, or sympathy

Funny thing is that during the r/s with my ex, I mostly felt that I could secure the r/s if I did not care for him, or when I would have no loving/romantic feelings for him.

But why on earth does someone wants to be in r/s where there is no love or care for the partner? I surely wouldnt.

Twisted stuff! Because this is probably how the BPD person feels towards his/her partner most of the time. It's al so counter intuitive.  

[Pearl55]

If that is true then I really hope the replacement is worse than he ever was.  Maybe then my ex will have a taste of his own medicine.

The strange thing is though, my ex's  ex wife treated him terribly and he stayed with her until she dumped him for another man.  She aborted his child, had several affairs, caused them to have financial problems and then left him even though he would have carried on in their marriage.  Even now he is friendly with her and wonders why she talks to him so coldly.

I just don't get it.  Is it that the worse you treat them, the more they want you?

Yes it's true, the more you love them the less they are interested in you. Crazy people like very abusive partners, in fact the more drama and chaos, the more they enjoy it.

[LA4610]

"From my personal observations the one thing that brings them to their knees is... . indifference:

              Lack of interest, concern, or sympathy"

Yup... . this is it. Healing yourself and no longer having interest, concern, or sympathy for them is what ultimately will bring them to their knees. It will absolutely drive them nuts. I see so many ppl on here (myself included) saying "why doesn't my ex call me" "why doesn't my ex do all of the crazy things i read about" etc etc. I think the answer is bc they know (subconciously) that you are still hooked. When they know you don't care anymore they will get triggered.

Ultimately, seeking any type of revenge on our ex's is not healthy. Honestly, I believe that is what they want us to do. Seek revenge, play the game, try to live in the crazy world they live in. Doing so will allow them to win. EVERYTIME.

What do y'all think?

[expos]

From my personal observations the one thing that brings them to their knees is... . indifference:

              Lack of interest, concern, or sympathy

Funny thing is that during the r/s with my ex, I mostly felt that I could secure the r/s if I did not care for him, or when I would have no loving/romantic feelings for him.

But why on earth does someone wants to be in r/s where there is no love or care for the partner? I surely wouldnt.

Twisted stuff! Because this is probably how the BPD person feels towards his/her partner most of the time. It's al so counter intuitive.  

If you are loving, you are sure thing, and they know you won't leave, so they will abuse you because you are close to them.

This why you are treated so poorly.  This is why they treat their family members like crap.  Family never goes away.

If you are constantly playing games and withdrawing, they will work so much harder to gain that CONTROL.

I hate to bring it back to my own situation, but my ex-wife would talk about her exes and which ones she found repulsive.   Based on my research and understanding, the ones who treated her like a princess were the ones she disliked the most.  She showed me a photo of one of them, an OK looking guy, and she literally said "ew".  

The one boyfriend who treated her the worst and dropped her without any explanation was actually a very ugly guy, and she friended him on Facebook while we were separated.  If that didn't speak volumes!

I know it's bad, but I made sure to treat my ex-wife like dirt on the way out, because I knew how to push her buttons.  Sorry, don't regret it one bit.  Eye for an eye.  

[coastalfog1]

From my perspective, by the end of the relationship we brought each other to our knees. The only difference now is I can get up off the floor if I work on myself while she's doomed  repeat this cycle over and over again.

[Cumulus]

What brings a borderline to their knees is the results of their own actions. I like the quote that goes like this:

"Revenge is taking the poison and expecting the other person to die".

I would be concerned Pearl about reading anything that wished vengeance on another person. Your happiness, healing and growth won't come from another's  misery.  I hope you can find peace in the midst of the turmoil that we are left with when ending a relationship with a person with a personality disorder. It is all so confusing.

[ShadowDancer]

My mentor explained it to me this way. We are ALL spiritual beings enduring a physical experience. Within our spiritual travels of the earthly realm there are such beings as lost wandering souls that we may encounter in our own navigation of the world that presently surrounds us. These souls as a result of the weakened spiritual path that they have knowingly and willingly chosen are in search of an unquenchable relief and fulfillment of their insatiable misery of which ultimately becomes increasingly devoid of conscience and is immeasurably destructive to themselves and all that they encounter. These lost souls neglect the past and fear the future thereby not being capable of mindfully experiencing the moment. Thus the descriptive term hungry ghost.

It is in this desperation they are half formed and dream living. In this condition is found the reason and the answer for the ability of lost souls to change and adapt their earthly forms and reflective behaviors to the conditions in which they find themselves. It is no wonder that they tug at our heart strings as a compassionate soul intuitively recognizes the tragic nature of their plight.

The question for us is what is our part in the tragedy. Is not the pristine goal of all existence purpose. What can our purpose be in this given that we intuitively know that what ever it is that we do will be a conscience reflection of what and who we are. To bring no harm to the afflicted would always be best as it carries no responsibility for the manifestation and further suffering of the recognizable weaker.  

Enlightenment and redemption in this situation is not likely but always possible. The key is devotion and demonstration of compassion to all things both within the sufferer and the witness. The enduring noble finger print we leave behind may be the ability to turn away with a tear in the eye and an ache in the heart, to permit each soul to find their own freedom and way to individual spiritual evolution and destiny without our interference through compassionate indifference is perhaps the best we are able to do.

[TheDude]

What brings a borderline to their knees?

Life.

[arn131arn]

A man with a big house, big car, and big wallet?

[Mutt]

"Hooking up with someone who turn the tables on'em, and makes'em feel exactly what you are NOW."br/>
I wish I had these infos years ago, I knew how to deal with him and took revenge of all these years! It's too late now.

I read her stuff too at the beginning and I agree with SB.

The more that I read, I started to understand that it's a coping mechanism. My anger started to subside. It's a part of her personality! Very different than you or I.
<br/>:)on't fight fire with fire.

Rise above this, learn about BPD, take what part of the r/s belongs to you and work on you!

[growing_wings]

although i agree with SB and Mutt's perspective, i will share what i think brings them down based on my experience:

Seeing that you hold the control. For deep fears, etc. (we all know that), they must feel they are in control of the situation or r/s, so they will seduce and do anything they can to ensure their partner is in their pockets. THe only time i took control (after the b/u) she lost it big big time, and accusations, threats, etc.etc. came my way. I think she was in pain, not for the r/s, but for the fact that i was not only not following her demands, but that i ignored her... .

i dont intend to bring her to her knees, but is the only time i saw her lost it...

[ShakinMyHead]

Old Chinese Proverb "When seeking revenge dig 2 graves."

[Mutt]

Old Chinese Proverb "When seeking revenge dig 2 graves."

I like that proverb!

[mgl210]

D'oh... Where is that proverb from? i just heard it a couple of days ago, and sadly I can't remember for the daylights outta me where its from... .

That is a good question from the original post... "what brings them to their knees? I like to think when you turn the tables on them and stump them for the lack of a better word. but I honestly don't know... .


MGL

Darn it, I'm completely stumped by who said that now

thanks alot

MGL

[mrclear]

What ultimately brings a borderline to their knees is themselves... .   Don't waste your time... .

[ShadowDancer]

"When seeking revenge dig two graves, one for yourself"

Douglas Horton Clergyman Author. He died in the late 60s

[love4meNOTu]

This is hard to talk about, it really is.

I saw how my withdrawing affected him. He was a mess. He tried to rage at me, to make me feel as badly as he did.

I can't say that I saw through it at the time, I was just in a panic at his strange behaviors and afraid of him, but yes, withdrawing from him made him go completely beserk.

It is not pretty. Now I can see how it was fear and hate he was spewing. And it was actually not about me, it was about him. His fears that have permeated his whole life, are in control of him now and forever. Sad.

I don't need revenge. My ex husband will ruin his life all by himself, he can't help it.

L

[santa]

So far as I've seen, only the justice system... . and that was just temporary. I'm sure getting older and winding up miserable and alone will make her rethink some things. Until then, who knows?

[Mutt]

This is hard to talk about, it really is.

I saw how my withdrawing affected him. He was a mess. He tried to rage at me, to make me feel as badly as he did.

I can't say that I saw through it at the time, I was just in a panic at his strange behaviors and afraid of him, but yes, withdrawing from him made him go completely beserk.

It is not pretty. Now I can see how it was fear and hate he was spewing. And it was actually not about me, it was about him. His fears that have permeated his whole life, are in control of him now and forever. Sad.

I don't need revenge. My ex husband will ruin his life all by himself, he can't help it.

L

I saw the same in my ex. Her behaviors got worse as I disengaged. She was having extinction bursts. Maybe your exh was going through the same thing. It was scarier than the behavior while I was in the marriage.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

[Waifed]

"From my personal observations the one thing that brings them to their knees is... . indifference:

              Lack of interest, concern, or sympathy"

Yup... . this is it. Healing yourself and no longer having interest, concern, or sympathy for them is what ultimately will bring them to their knees. It will absolutely drive them nuts. I see so many ppl on here (myself included) saying "why doesn't my ex call me" "why doesn't my ex do all of the crazy things i read about" etc etc. I think the answer is bc they know (subconciously) that you are still hooked. When they know you don't care anymore they will get triggered.

Ultimately, seeking any type of revenge on our ex's is not healthy. Honestly, I believe that is what they want us to do. Seek revenge, play the game, try to live in the crazy world they live in. Doing so will allow them to win. EVERYTIME.

What do y'all think?

I think they are all different, just like us. It's been 5 NC months for me. We live 5 miles from one another and I have no idea what she is doing. No common friends whatsoever so she has no idea what I am doing. We didn't work. We've moved on.

I think like most relationships some people are more "special" than others. They have BPD but they are still human.

[love4meNOTu]

Thank you waifed... I too think that not all pwBPD are alike, and although I assume you probably know your ex's Achilles heel you are gentlemanly enough not to reveal it.  

Mutt - Yes, I thought perhaps they were extinction bursts, they were at the end of the relationship. He also tried switching up his behavior, and tried being kind one day. I was at the point where his behavior was so crazy (raging, ignoring, then kind) that I just could not make sense of it. I just kept my mouth shut and kept out of his way.

I sure wish I would have known about BPD before I left the ex. Perhaps the end wouldn't have been quite so bad. But there still would have been an end. I don't think I can ever forgive him for abusing me in front of my boys, I know they can't.

L

[Mutt]

Mutt - Yes, I thought perhaps they were extinction bursts, they were at the end of the relationship. He also tried switching up his behavior, and tried being kind one day. I was at the point where his behavior was so crazy (raging, ignoring, then kind) that I just could not make sense of it. I just kept my mouth shut and kept out of his way.

I'm not sure about you love4meNOTu, and I know that you'll understand without saying anything. It's scary and surreal to witness now. I couldn't tell if it was a combination of being out of the FOG and seeing the forest for the trees or exctinction bursts. It probably was a combination of both. It was more painful to see my ex because I really see a disorded person now.

- Mutt  

[Happy1]

But why on earth does someone wants to be in r/s where there is no love or care for the partner?

To me it's simple. So, they don't have to be alone (fear of abandonment).

[love4meNOTu]

Yea well Mutt... . my T said a few months ago that I would truly start healing when I saw the good and evil parts of my exhusband as one. He is not the good man he presented to me initially, and he is not the terrifying man that he was at the end. He is both.

He is disordered. And I see it clearly now. All the FOG is gone. Cognitive dissonance... gone.

Mutt even if he wasn't disordered, he is not the man for me. It just took me a while to quit denying it.

And I bet you understand that... .

L

[Happy1]

Old Chinese Proverb "When seeking revenge dig 2 graves."

And this one too, "Revenge is a dish best served cold." Which could mean several things, but for me, it means not even having to serve it. It will serve itself when you likely won't even care.