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Author Topic: What brings a borderline to their knees?  (Read 7314 times)
Take2
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« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2014, 07:03:25 PM »

Yea well Mutt... . my T said a few months ago that I would truly start healing when I saw the good and evil parts of my exhusband as one. He is not the good man he presented to me initially, and he is not the terrifying man that he was at the end. He is both.

He is disordered. And I see it clearly now. All the FOG is gone. Cognitive dissonance... gone.

Mutt even if he wasn't disordered, he is not the man for me. It just took me a while to quit denying it.

And I bet you understand that... .

L

Love... .   thank you for your posts, I find strength by reading them.  You are a very kind person - as everyone here is - just been meaning to let you know that for a while now... .    

Intellectually I know too that my ex is both a kind, funny man and a raging lunatic - all rolled into one.  But for some reason, knowing that doesn't make it easier for me to stop thinking and caring about him.  Is it just time and space apart with NC that helped you really reach that place of strength?

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Tausk
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« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2014, 07:11:17 PM »

I pretty much think that the vast majority of pwBPD are already on their knees?

From what I've seen and learned, if being on ones knees means giving up and letting the Disorder bring you endless suffering and pain, I'd say that the vast majority of pwBPD are on their knees now.

Do you really think that they like their existence.  Would you trade for a moment?  

If a terrified and traumatized three-year old says to you, "I hate you" are you looking for ways to bring that three-year old to her knees?  :)o you want revenge on her.  If so here's some suggestions to bring them onto their knees.

Take a belt out and start slapping it all around and occasionally hit her.

Drop her off all alone in the middle of traffic in a large city.

Cover her eyes, cover her ears, give her limited capacity to function and tell her she's got to survive the world all alone... . oh wait that is already the existence for a pwBPD.

And sadly, if you really want to hurt your ex wBPD, live well.  Be a good person.  My ex has painted me as abusive, evil, controlling.  If I enact revenge, it just proves in her mind she was right about me.  I can't do anything to her to a level that hasn't already been done to her when she was a toddler.

However if I'm even party good or decent, that does not compute in the black or white thinking of my ex. She can't cognitively understand how I might be both good and flawed.  This causes her great pain.  

So, ironically living well is the greatest revenge I can take on my ex.  

Even in compassion and detachment, I cause her increased pain.

Sadness.

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Take2
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« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2014, 07:15:04 PM »

It is the simple disordered paradigm. Same attracts same. Lost boys rescue broken girls, broken girls seek lost boys.

Ain't that the truth... .    and it took this r/s to truly show me how broken I had become... .  
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love4meNOTu
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« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2014, 07:15:26 PM »

Thank you for your kind words Take2.

I would say that I found my own strength. In this basic fact... .

My exhusband did not love me. He needed me. I could not tell the difference, I thought he loved me as I loved him. He did not.

That is the truth. Harsh as it is, he does not love in the way you and I do. He is not capable of it. But he can pretend to love, until the object (me, his wife) becomes human. I could not fulfill his needs Take2. They were limitless. He was a bucket with a hole in it... . there is not enough love or attention in the world for him.

In order for me to be the woman he needed, I would have had to devote myself entirely to him. And even then, Take2, it would not have been enough.

And I would have lost myself. And my relationships. And my children.

That is too much to lose.

Hugs,

L
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« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2014, 07:21:36 PM »

Love4me... .   yep, I know and understand all of that... .   and yet my own twisted head keeps wanting to believe that his words to try to lure me back mean that he does actually love me... .   which is absurd since he's telling another woman he loves her !  Clearly I am capable of understanding this.  I suppose the fog will not truly be lifted for me until I get away from him (work makes it very difficult). 
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love4meNOTu
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« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2014, 07:31:06 PM »

Take 2 I get it...

Yea it is definitely fog, and time will help that. But I will say one thing, and that is self respect. When you are with a pwBPD for quite a while you lose what was your self respect. You lose it because you constantly stop yourself from being who you truly are because there will be ramifications from your partner.

But this is your journey, I can't tell you how to heal, part of me didn't really start doing well until I got angry. I mean major, righteous anger.

It definitely propelled me to the next level of healing, acceptance.
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« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2014, 07:39:30 PM »

I think that is great that you found your outlet L4... . What is helping me thus far is knowing that I know the truth behind me and her. I also get great pleasure out of knowing that I will one day have a healthy relationship while she might never have that... Life will always be able bouncing around for her. I wish it wasn't the case for her, but its the BPD that controls it i guess... .

MGL
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« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2014, 07:55:41 PM »

And MG that's why I can't seem to hold onto my anger... .   I feel so sad thinking that my ex will constantly go thru this... .   as everyone tells me, I know it's not my issue any longer, yet I still can't get passed feeling sad about that for him.
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myself
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« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2014, 08:10:44 PM »

self respect. When you are with a pwBPD for quite a while you lose what was your self respect. You lose it because you constantly stop yourself from being who you truly are because there will be ramifications from your partner.

This is when we're brought to our knees.

When we stand up for ourselves, we regain more than self respect.

We get closer to our potential.

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« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2014, 08:25:57 PM »

I hope that no one thinks im being insensitive towards my ex. I do feel extremely guilty that she will never (well maybe not never) find true happiness as she will always worry about being abandoned and what not... .

MGL
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« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2014, 08:36:36 PM »

Wow... thanks, tausk... I so needed that.

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« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2014, 08:36:58 PM »

I hope that no one thinks im being insensitive towards my ex. I do feel extremely guilty that she will never (well maybe not never) find true happiness as she will always worry about being abandoned and what not... .

MGL

MGL... . I don't think you are insensitve at all.  I think your outlook is healthy and grounded.  I know that intellectually yet I stay twisted in my own thinking with my ex.  You are realistic and strong and still have compassion for your ex.  I am working hard to get to that place and do gain strength in your posts also... .

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« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2014, 09:14:00 PM »

I have to say that I'm turned. I'm turned away from bringing anyone to their knees. Since I began my suffering I could not afford to do anything that would not bring me off of my own knees. I'm stronger now than I have been in my life ever. I feel good and I feel good about my self. I'm getting there.
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« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2014, 09:52:29 PM »

Thanks Take,

If anything. yes I admit freely that I worry constantly about anybody I care about, especially someone so deep to me as she was... . I hope that someday she can resolve these issues inside herself and find her true happiness. Do I wish it was with me? Of course, I do, but the unselfish part of me just hopes for the best for her. She did alot to hurt me really deep, but I hate holding grudges against people. The only person I hold any grudge against somewhat is a friend of mine who committed suicide.

I've learned that its hard to be or feel what others expect us to. Sure, we can get some great advice and support from the people who have been in our shoes on this board. However, to be real with thyself is to be the key. I want to be free from feeling as if its my fault that the rs didn't work, but I need to resolve the true inner feelings I feel about the rs to begin with... .

I've got no more strength than you or anyone. I just handle it differently I suppose. Please don't put me on such a high level... . LOL

MGL
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Mutt
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« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2014, 11:19:32 PM »

Yea well Mutt... . my T said a few months ago that I would truly start healing when I saw the good and evil parts of my exhusband as one. He is not the good man he presented to me initially, and he is not the terrifying man that he was at the end. He is both.

He is disordered. And I see it clearly now. All the FOG is gone. Cognitive dissonance... gone.

Mutt even if he wasn't disordered, he is not the man for me. It just took me a while to quit denying it.

And I bet you understand that... .

L

I understand. I don't see her often and when I do, it's to quickly pick up the kids and to drop them off. The behaviors that she was exibiting while in the r/s I put up with it and didn't see it for what it was. I can see her behaviors now.  She was being dysregulated due to controlled contact and not responding to her bomb e-mails. That's what I meant by disordered. It's sad and painful to see her oblivious of her actions and doing this in front of the kids. It's like she doesn't even know that they are there and certainly doesn't understand what effect that she has on them.

I married her for the wrong reasons and tried to make the marriage work. Would I do it with her again even if she wasn't disordered? I don't know, she was mirroring me and I don't know who she was.

I also stayed because of the kids. I'm thankful I have my kids from her, I could do without the rest.

- Mutt  
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2014, 11:33:37 PM »

We abandon a borderline for us, but that also hurts the sufferer where it hurts most, a replaying of the trauma that created the disorder to begin with.  It's OK to enjoy that consequence, just a little bit.
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Tausk
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« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2014, 11:55:06 PM »

I'm thankful I have my kids from her, I could do without the rest.

- Mutt  

And that is the ultimate evidence of the r/s having the source material for both white and black.   It's never one or the other.

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« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2014, 12:14:03 AM »

I'm thankful I have my kids from her, I could do without the rest.

- Mutt  

And that is the ultimate evidence of the r/s having the source material for both white and black.   It's never one or the other.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by source material?
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Tausk
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« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2014, 12:25:40 AM »

I'm thankful I have my kids from her, I could do without the rest.

- Mutt  

And that is the ultimate evidence of the r/s having the source material for both white and black.   It's never one or the other.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by source material?

I was just saying your r/s with your ex. 

I know of a few women who were married to ex hwBPD.  And when the conversation starts to split about how everything was just evil, I ask if they would trade their kids for never having had to endure the suffering.

It usually stops the extreme splitting in it's tracks.  As difficult and hellish the r/s was, for my friends it produced some terrific and caring children.  I sound's like you're a great dad and I'm sure your kids feel loved.
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« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2014, 12:46:25 AM »

was just saying your r/s with your ex.  

I know of a few women who were married to ex hwBPD.  And when the conversation starts to split about how everything was just evil, I ask if they would trade their kids for never having had to endure the suffering.

It usually stops the extreme splitting in it's tracks.  As difficult and hellish the r/s was, for my friends it produced some terrific and caring children.  I sound's like you're a great dad and I'm sure your kids feel loved.

Thank you tausk!

I don't know of any friends in my personal life that have had a BPD or had even heard of it before I brought it up to really close friends. That's something interesting though. I guess I would fall into that group. As difficult and painful that the r/s was, it didn't make a difference to me when it ended. I keep thinking about my kids as being the most precious thing to take away from it and if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have them.

I try to protect them from their mother. I feel for my SD. I can see that SD was alienated from her father and was told that her dad was abusive, a drunk, lazy and didn't care for her. Things were good with SD and I for the first bit of the marriage, but my spouse kept alienating me from her and saying the same things to SD. I didn't care for her, I treated her differently etc... . And created a chasm between us.

SD is 15 btw and she had mentioned in the past that mom always fought with her boyfriends when she was upset during an argument with SO and I. Since the split, SD is having a really hard time with the ex. I'm not there anymore and the disorder is always there. The replacement and her have such a weird arrangement. He spends half his time there and she spends have the time at his place. My point is, the times that he is not there, SD is getting the brunt of it. I'm hopeful that my kids when they reach the age of 13 will want to come to live with dad. For now, they're with me half of the time, so I feel like at least they have an emotional calm base. But that's not the case with SD. I can see how "splitting" even a child, can have such a negative emotional impact on them. I try my best tausk with this disorder, but some things are not in my control, like SD sadly.
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« Reply #50 on: February 16, 2014, 03:07:56 AM »

My exhusband did not love me. He needed me. I could not tell the difference, I thought he loved me as I loved him. He did not.

That is the truth. Harsh as it is, he does not love in the way you and I do. He is not capable of it. But he can pretend to love, until the object (me, his wife) becomes human. I could not fulfill his needs Take2. They were limitless. He was a bucket with a hole in it... . there is not enough love or attention in the world for him.

In order for me to be the woman he needed, I would have had to devote myself entirely to him. And even then, Take2, it would not have been enough.

And I would have lost myself. And my relationships. And my children.

That is too much to lose.

You have written my exact situation.  You are right, it is too much to lose.

I have decided that living well is the best thing to do.  I always told him that I would be OK if he left, because I had been OK before I met him.  He didn't seem to like that thought.

The last text I had from him asked 'Are you OK?'  Maybe he's hoping I'm not?
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« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2014, 07:54:56 PM »

Going back to the original post, does going NC bring them to their knees?
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« Reply #52 on: February 16, 2014, 07:55:57 PM »

It does... .   because they fear they have lost control over you when you don't respond... .
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« Reply #53 on: February 16, 2014, 07:57:10 PM »

The last text I had from him asked 'Are you OK?'  Maybe he's hoping I'm not?

Not necessarily... . he's hoping you are still there as a possible recycle when needed... .
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« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2014, 08:08:43 PM »

What I do know brings them to their knees is YOU.  The very presence of you, the intimate connection - it is this real or perceived abandonment that brings them to their knees.  Just because their coping looks different than yours does not mean they are not deeply hurt.

This really hit me, SB.  I feel this way about my ex.  Somehow, just having anything to do with me is more than she can bare.  It's not really something I understand, but I do think that she is in pain too.  I think she wanted us to work out.  I think she was in love.  It just wasn't sustainable for her.  It just became impossible for her to deal with after a certain critical mass had been achieved.
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Tausk
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« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2014, 09:25:33 PM »

Going back to the original post, does going NC bring them to their knees?

My question to you is what makes you believe that they aren't on their knees every moment of their lives?  

Second question:  How does knowing this information help you to be a better man?

Would you trade your life for theirs for even a moment?  Would you want to trade the pain, shame, and terror, especially without a true sense of self to process any of it.  We want retribution because our egos are wounded.  Or exes don't even have egos.

IMHO, Trying to survive brings them to their knees.

That's why 10% or more end up in suicide. A larger to AODA.  A significant number are prostitutes, bag ladies, or homeless men.  A huge number are in the correction's system.  And those few that do survive often end up as lonely mean cat women or cranky old men who yell at kids on his lawn.

If you want your ex to suffer, don't worry she is.

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Octoberfest
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« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2014, 09:33:24 PM »

It is the simple disordered paradigm. Same attracts same. Lost boys rescue broken girls, broken girls seek lost boys.

Well that one hurt.
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« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2014, 01:33:31 AM »

I've been so busy getting back up that I cannot really waste any time on getting them on their knees.

I'm at the point where I'm almost om their side, hoping they'll be able to live happy and stable lives, for themselves but most importantly, their kids' sake. They're fading into the canvas that is my past.
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« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2014, 02:49:56 AM »

A man with a big house, big car, and big wallet?

   That's just the ones with a bit of self-respect, arn.  Couple of drinks is enough for mine. 
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« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2014, 01:43:51 PM »

I tend to agree that it's simply daily life which brings a pwBPD the most hurt. Mine was very hurt and broken. In the end I think one reason she left is because she knew and felt bad that she hurt me. Once she started having panic attacks due to our wedding date getting closer (it never happened... . thankfully), it seemed like it was all she could do to just survive. I only saw glimpses of this part of her during the idealization phase. The strange arguments were just a clue of what was going on. I believe that who she really is, is hurt, depressed, and anxious. The best thing for us to do is pick up the pieces and move on.
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