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Author Topic: What brings a borderline to their knees?  (Read 7271 times)
maimed4life

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« Reply #60 on: February 17, 2014, 04:40:00 PM »

I found that not reacting to their rages makes them even more crazy.  Just ignoring them, even laughing at them.  Of course, it doesn't end the rages.  But, they're hoping you'll fight back, and it confuses them when you don't.
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Undone123
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« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2014, 05:59:53 PM »

Going back to the original post, does going NC bring them to their knees?

My question to you is what makes you believe that they aren't on their knees every moment of their lives?  

Second question:  How does knowing this information help you to be a better man?

Would you trade your life for theirs for even a moment?  Would you want to trade the pain, shame, and terror, especially without a true sense of self to process any of it.  We want retribution because our egos are wounded.  Or exes don't even have egos.

IMHO, Trying to survive brings them to their knees.

That's why 10% or more end up in suicide. A larger to AODA.  A significant number are prostitutes, bag ladies, or homeless men.  A huge number are in the correction's system.  And those few that do survive often end up as lonely mean cat women or cranky old men who yell at kids on his lawn.

If you want your ex to suffer, don't worry she is.

So true - Wanting revenge for a small period of time is natural (I did), but we must process it properly... .   Holding on to the anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die... . It does not make us better people.

My ex suffers every day. I hold no anger towards her. She is a good person. She hates herself more than anyone else could. Its a true tragidy. Such a beautiful person burdened by an illness that will prevent her from ever truly being happy.

Im not to sure on this thread.
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Hurtbeyondrepair27
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« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2014, 06:10:27 PM »

Im not vengeful at all... I dont want revenge. But,i want,him to have remorse to see thats hes wrong for whatt he did to me. Not nc I want,him to feel pain but,jist to have his empathy to feel the love I,tjought,he,had for me. To feel for me the way I woild feel for him. Vut I would have nwver did wjat he did. So that jist not a realistic wANT. Jonestly if u do that u play imto the character they turned you into. Then if,they ever have a chance of,healimg they wont be able to look back and see what they did to you. They ll look at ypu like an equal and that they rightfully cut you out amd treated you badly nc u are the horrible person they painted,you as. Im trying to have hope for him. Somehow I still have this hope but its probably self serving nc I want hos validation. Which is really messed up and perplexing on my part. I jist cant handle him having no remorse for unsolicited abuse. Not like any abuse is solicited... I guess I,have my issues as well.
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Pearl55
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« Reply #63 on: February 17, 2014, 06:25:05 PM »

Undone

Most non borderlines think borderlines are good people but good people don't hurt others to enjoy it! Good people don't abuse others. You feelings don't matter, only their feelings!
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Hurtbeyondrepair27
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« Reply #64 on: February 17, 2014, 06:28:08 PM »

Undone

Most non borderlines think borderlines are good people but good people don't hurt others to enjoy it! Good people don't abuse others. You feelings don't matter, only their feelings!



Thats true and,helps me big time. My exbp is so nice and helpful and caring when hes not splitting  but youre right good ppl dont do that
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Tausk
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« Reply #65 on: February 17, 2014, 06:34:35 PM »

Undone

Most non borderlines think borderlines are good people but good people don't hurt others to enjoy it! Good people don't abuse others. You feelings don't matter, only their feelings!

Splitting our exes either way can be dangerous.  Good vs. Evil.  Our exes are Disordered.  Is a homeless man or bag lady who yells at you good or evil?

The Disorder leaves pwBPD at the emotional state of a traumatized three year old with no real sense of self.  

We didn't become involved with our exes because they were able to torture baby rabbits.  In fact, we became involved because they felt so much that seeing bunnies in pain is too much for them to process.  And they do not INTEND to be destructive.  But the Disorder is very destructive to those that allow it into their lives.

Passing moral judgement on a Disorder person in a blanket manner, also requires judgment on ourselves.  Why did a supposedly "sane and responsible" person get involved with someone who is evil.

I've found that looking at the Disorder and thinking in the mixtures of life help me to recover.
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Hurtbeyondrepair27
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« Reply #66 on: February 17, 2014, 06:41:07 PM »

I know im not totally sane and responsible but at least im working on it. In my,case my exbp cant help it,yes but knows he does amd brags abpit it,heartlessely. Im not judging him... . Jist think,its wrong to attempt amd desteoy a persons lige witj no remorse or motivatiom to stop,ypurself from harming others all the while sitting on a moral high horse and dolling out punishment on the percieved bad ones. I feel lots of empathy for my exbp but,it bothers me I do,knowing that fact. Feels weak to feel sorry for someone who,knowingly hurts others and gains enjoy,ent from it  I,think bc my,first exbp had so much,never ending empathy from me and she,used it so much to her advantage. I know,i,have,issues to be with,them but at,least,i,want to change. And I,own up to screwy things I do. Mostly anyway
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Pearl55
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« Reply #67 on: February 17, 2014, 06:53:42 PM »

Tausk

They are EVILS and extremely sadistic. They are great actress and actors! Understanding BPD helped me a lot but this illnessis is not an excuse for abuse.  How they are able to control themselves in front of others? Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde!
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Tausk
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« Reply #68 on: February 17, 2014, 07:18:18 PM »

Tausk

They are EVILS and extremely sadistic. They are great actress and actors! Understanding BPD helped me a lot but this illnessis is not an excuse for abuse.  How they are able to control themselves in front of others? Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde!

Perhaps your ex is evil.  But I don't feel mine was.  Yes, her behaviors are confusing.  Her emotions are contradictory.  She has survival responses that fundamentally preclude any chance of happiness.

That's why it's called a DISORDER.  That's why it's mental illness.

Explain the Jekyll/Hyde model when a person takes a steak knife and slashes themselves across their entire body.

But where you might find an explanation for the Jekyll/Hyde is in the Dissociative Personality symptoms.  The splitting.  Where they may still be in the same mind, but actually have a different persona with a different agendas and with none responsible to the others, but at the same time with real no sense of self.

Sound insane?  It is. It's Bat Sht Crazy. It's insanity, but disguised for the "higher" functioning ones.  It's a Disorder.  

That's just my interpretation.  It helped to understand that I didn't fall in "love" with an evil cheating destructive sociopath.  Even though her actions were all of the above.  I was lost in the evil ex for a long time.  I wanted revenge.  I wanted her to suffer.  But then I began to understand that it was the ego of my false self that wanted those things. It was easier to hate my ex and be a victim than look at my part.  My ex's life is pathetic.  But at least she has a Disorder as an explanation, not an excuse.  For me. living this short life with resentment as a helpless perpetual victim, is even more pathetic since I'm supposedly the "NON".  And nothing ever changes in victim mode. How can change occur, because I'm the helpless victim.

Today I know that I was simply enmeshed in the Disorder, which is not that uncommon.  But that's just me.  There's a spectrum to everything.

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Take2
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« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2014, 08:42:36 PM »

I'm reading a book called "Why Does He Do That" - written by this guy who has counseled abusive men for like 27 years or something.  Most of the men are not in the program willingly - they are court ordered.  It's incredibly interesting to read and he really truly seems to understand what people on the abused end go thru given that he makes sure to talk to both people.  Anyway - with the conversation you two have brought up about Evil vs. Disordered... .    the more I leaned toward feeling that my ex's behavior is caused by the disorder, the more compassion I felt for him.  But I find that keeps me stuck and wanting to fix him more.

I've never felt he is an evil person - despite the intense abuse he's put me thru.  I have seen him change from a normal person to Bat Sht Crazy in the blink of an eye.  It frankly scared the crap out of me.

But the point I wanted to make from my book is that when an abusive person (man in the context of the book) is able to hide the abuse in front of others, what's at work there is ABUSE, not the disorder.

It's a learned behavior that many, nons and disordered people have.  But the disorder is no excuse for abusive treatment. 

I agree that it's on a spectrum of behavior, but I suppose when one goes thru intense emotional and psychological abuse, it's hard to have as much compassion. 

And then when you consider how badly I miss this guy, you really have to question which one of us is Bat Sht Crazy... .    Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Tausk
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« Reply #70 on: February 17, 2014, 08:59:17 PM »

... .  the more I leaned toward feeling that my ex's behavior is caused by the disorder, the more compassion I felt for him.  But I find that keeps me stuck and wanting to fix him more.

And then when you consider how badly I miss this guy, you really have to question which one of us is Bat Sht Crazy... .   Smiling (click to insert in post)

Yeah it's a Disorder.  But I'm not advocating returning to participate in the Disorder.  If you need to think of them as Evil to stay away then think of them as Evil.  

The Walking Dead, Zombies, Emotional Vampires... . all works, because my ex is as dangerous to me as heroin.  If I let me ex back into my life, through the Disorder, she will suck the living soul out of me, then she will paint me black, forget me, and leave me at the side of the road rotting, while she f'cks another man next to me.

And she'll do it while blaming me for my abusive behavior, which forced her to lie and cheat and destroy.  She has no guilt, so no remorse, so her actions are sociopathic and evil.

But I choose not to think of her as a sociopathic or inherently evil.  But that's because I've accepted that she's never never never going to change due to the Disorder.  There's no evidence that she's going to change what so ever. But ton's of evidence that she won't.

So, in order to stay NC, if I have to think of her as Evil I will.  But today, in order to find recovery, I choose to look at the big picture.



But make no mistake, her actions are the same as the walking dead, and sometimes when I watch the show, I pretend my ex is one of the Zombies, who will never stop chasing, will never be satisfied, and if she ever catches me will eat me on the spot without a second thought.


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Take2
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« Reply #71 on: February 17, 2014, 09:24:23 PM »

Great way to put it... .

I need to read that over and over.

Struggling so badly.
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arn131arn
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« Reply #72 on: February 17, 2014, 09:38:30 PM »

I haven't commented on this thread in a few days. My only response has been only of sarcasm, yet, knowing my ex ruined a career for me, our family, abuse in ALL facets, and the [url=https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0]Triangulation[/url] and smear campaigns, and alienating a son (8) from his father. I really wanted to lash out at you, Tausk. I realy wanted to just say some horrible things to you and and come through the computer screen. When a man is accused of abuse he is outcasted, he is looked down upon, and he IS guilty until proven innocent. I understand they are disordered, but Tausk, that disorder doesn't give them the right to do illegal deeds. Most male BPDs, I would say are in prison probably or one step away. But then you got me thinking. I, like you, do not want to be a victim. Victim's never get free. I could use my alcoholism as a crutch or sit around saying "poor me", but I use it now to better who I am today. So, in that uncomfortable feeling I experienced reading your posts, Tausk, I knew it has done something to help Arn grow. Thanks
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Tausk
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« Reply #73 on: February 17, 2014, 10:37:31 PM »

I haven't commented on this thread in a few days. My only response has been only of sarcasm, yet, knowing my ex ruined a career for me, our family, abuse in ALL facets, and the Triangulation and smear campaigns, and alienating a son (8) from his father. I really wanted to lash out at you, Tausk. I realy wanted to just say some horrible things to you and and come through the computer screen. When a man is accused of abuse he is outcasted, he is looked down upon, and he IS guilty until proven innocent. I understand they are disordered, but Tausk, that disorder doesn't give them the right to do illegal deeds. Most male BPDs, I would say are in prison probably or one step away. But then you got me thinking. I, like you, do not want to be a victim. Victim's never get free. I could use my alcoholism as a crutch or sit around saying "poor me", but I use it now to better who I am today. So, in that uncomfortable feeling I experienced reading your posts, Tausk, I knew it has done something to help Arn grow. Thanks

Thanks Arn:

Reading your post moved me.  Thank you for your raw honesty and emotion.  And although I can't compare pain, I know for me that I went through a long time trying to find someway to believe that I was going survive my feelings.

I will say, that small spark of self awareness/honesty, that you just displayed, has been the cornerstone of my recovery when working the steps.  I use the steps here as well.  I know how painful early recovery can be.  And I know that you're going through multiple areas. Hang in there. It gets better.  People have done it before and there's a proven path.  

Just your post above with it's raw honesty and emotion is evidence that you can walk the path of recovery with success.  And the fact that you're working multiple areas means that you'll get proportionately deeper recovery.

One concept that I learned is that the Disorder and AODA tells us that how we feel right now is how it is, how it always has been and how it always will be.  And the above statement is true if we are locked into the Disorder/AODA.  Nothing changes, It just gets continually worse, which is the same as yesterday, as today, as tomorrow. Just worse.  And I got used to being locked into this thinking.

But we don't have to live that paradigm anymore.  The work we do today, bring positive changes deep down, which is real and will last a lifetime... . if we work at it.

Keep the hope and the faith.  We have the right to those principals today.

T
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ShadowDancer
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« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2014, 11:35:29 PM »

Tausk

They are EVILS and extremely sadistic. They are great actress and actors! Understanding BPD helped me a lot but this illnessis is not an excuse for abuse.  How they are able to control themselves in front of others? Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde!

I have to agree with Pearl. Even though the PDI are perhaps damaged by the past ect. ect. of which said occurrence may or may not have been in their control in that instant of injury and they are indeed left emotionally with the where for all of an angry three year old, these folks are still thinking and processing human beings with an absolute sense of right and wrong.

It is my belief that as they wander their emotionally damaged wasteland their own moral compass is simply overruled and corrupted by their desire to self serve their own emotional deficits and lack of core being thru methods that satisfy their own hunger for personal actualization and relief. I do believe in certain situations that they injure others with the full awareness that thru the pain they inflict upon other innocents brings them a certain element of gleeful joy and pleasure. To blanket state that they simply can't help themselves is dismissive naive speculation. They are known to be observed to have the ability to contain this destructiveness publicly to then to go on and unleash their wrath in the privacy of their intimate relationships. These people know full well what they are doing. I makes them feel alive and brings them the affirmation that they are viable effective human beings. Right or wrong of their actions does not matter to them as long as it brings them validation that they exist.

To compare them to the shouting "homeless bag people" who may suffer from a myriad of psycho social illnesses ranging from alcoholism to un medicated schizophrenia, bipolar ect. ect. is an apologist statement and an absurd comparision of belief that holds and defends by its implication that these folks are unaccountable for their own actions.  

Tausk, your ex is not only dangerous to you, she is dangerous to anyone she is intimate with. You are not the first and you are not the last. She has a whole lifetime of hell to raise... . and she knows it.
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hergestridge
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« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2014, 03:05:10 AM »

Just walking away. That brings them to their knees.

Trying to talk to them like grown ups will only provoke one response;

they will be picking a fight with you. Again.

But is this usesfull information?

Perhaps on the the leaving board, I suppose?  

I don't normally post here.
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Tolou
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« Reply #76 on: February 18, 2014, 03:47:06 AM »

SHADOW DANCER... . THAT WAS REAL DEEP... . REAL DEEP READING THAT POST!

THANKS, SEEMS LIKE A WONDERFUL MENTOR.
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Undone123
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« Reply #77 on: February 18, 2014, 04:20:34 AM »

oh indeed she is disordered.

Yes she treats people awfully. But I don't believe she wakes up in the morning and intends to be that way. Yes only her feelings matter, but she has no capacity to empathise... . She is intrinsically a GOOD person. For us its about acceptance. Accepting the reality of the disorder... . We expect pwBPD to behave in a way they have no capacity to behave in, and then get sad. A lot of victim mentality comes from nons.

The pwBPD's responsibility is treatment. But without that we can't expect them to be any other way, and even then we must be realistic about what "recovery" looks like.

My ex was emotionally abused by her primary care givers. When I was in the relationship I had no knowledge of BPD, but I did know her behavior was learned! It came from somewhere, a place I have been luckily enough not to experience. Give them a break, they are on their knees every day.

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BorisAcusio
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« Reply #78 on: February 18, 2014, 06:02:03 AM »

Tausk

They are EVILS and extremely sadistic. They are great actress and actors! Understanding BPD helped me a lot but this illnessis is not an excuse for abuse.  How they are able to control themselves in front of others? Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde!

I have to agree with Pearl. Even though the PDI are perhaps damaged by the past ect. ect. of which said occurrence may or may not have been in their control in that instant of injury and they are indeed left emotionally with the where for all of an angry three year old, these folks are still thinking and processing human beings with an absolute sense of right and wrong.

It is my belief that as they wander their emotionally damaged wasteland their own moral compass is simply overruled and corrupted by their desire to self serve their own emotional deficits and lack of core being thru methods that satisfy their own hunger for personal actualization and relief. I do believe in certain situations that they injure others with the full awareness that thru the pain they inflict upon other innocents brings them a certain element of gleeful joy and pleasure. To blanket state that they simply can't help themselves is dismissive naive speculation. They are known to be observed to have the ability to contain this destructiveness publicly to then to go on and unleash their wrath in the privacy of their intimate relationships. These people know full well what they are doing. I makes them feel alive and brings them the affirmation that they are viable effective human beings. Right or wrong of their actions does not matter to them as long as it brings them validation that they exist.

To compare them to the shouting "homeless bag people" who may suffer from a myriad of psycho social illnesses ranging from alcoholism to un medicated schizophrenia, bipolar ect. ect. is an apologist statement and an absurd comparision of belief that holds and defends by its implication that these folks are unaccountable for their own actions.  

Tausk, your ex is not only dangerous to you, she is dangerous to anyone she is intimate with. You are not the first and you are not the last. She has a whole lifetime of hell to raise... . and she knows it.

Great post there, Shadow.
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BorisAcusio
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« Reply #79 on: February 18, 2014, 06:07:29 AM »

oh indeed she is disordered.

Yes she treats people awfully. But I don't believe she wakes up in the morning and intends to be that way.

Does that matter? They completely know that their actions will deeply hurt the nons. They know it and do it anyways.
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Undone123
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« Reply #80 on: February 18, 2014, 09:43:30 AM »

oh indeed she is disordered.

Yes she treats people awfully. But I don't believe she wakes up in the morning and intends to be that way.

Does that matter? They completely know that their actions will deeply hurt the nons. They know it and do it anyways.

They know their actions... . But I don't believe they understand the extent it will hurt. They don't have that capacity to empathise, because they are wrapped up in their own inner turmoil
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« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2014, 10:31:18 AM »



Staff only

This thread has reached the 4 page limit - time to lock it up.

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