My evaluation came back

[arn131arn]

Dude, I'm bat _____

No kidding, I am!  You got to be to be involved in a relationship like ours for so long.

My replacement is probably NPD. I was worried I may have been as well. So I did a 3 hour psyche evaluation that cost me $350. I wondered if that was the reason I was with her for so long. It really scared me to death, I was also scared I may me BPD.

My evaluation came back. I AM sane. No personality disorders, but I am an extremely co-dependent drunk and I do show narcissistic/ BPD traits (fear of abandonment), and I don't have an unrealistic self-image, but I am rather hard on myself and tend to make a lot of jokes at my own expense. Which is a trait of a covert narcissist.

So, it gets extremely confusing to me to say the least. I listen to my P, and I go to AA to relieve my alcoholism, he said I wasn't depressed but I may start anti depressants to help with my sleep cycle (one thing that I don't do well right now), and work on me!

It's just so damn hard sometimes Bc if you lined up 100 women, I am going to pick the sickest one each and every time... . that's my experience. My history.

I wouldn't know a healthy RS if it hit me across the face.

Does anyone?

[LilMissSunshine]

LOL Arn.  Your not Bat_____ and I'm very inspired about your evaluation.  I was horribly gaslighted and projected on, so I'm considering an evaluation myself.  I've been hesitating because of the expense but I think I'll suck it up and do it anyway - especially after reading this thread.

History is the past Arn.  I believe as we heal and become stronger and more confident in ourselves we won't be making the same mistakes again.  In time, I'm sure I'll be reading about Arn and the great "normal" girl who walked into his life.  I believe the healthier we become the healthier the people are who we become interested in.

[LilMissSunshine]

BTW Arn - I don't have any substance abuse issues but what I'm going through is definitely a withdrawal of sorts.  I've read there are a lot of similarities.  I CANNOT imagine dealing with an expwBPD r/s, being separated from my child/children and dealing with sobriety - all at the same time.  WOW!  That's a lot of ___.  Triple whammie!  Hat's off to you!  Keep up the good work, but give yourself some slack.  "Rome wasn't built in a day". 

[restoredsight]

I wouldn't know a healthy RS if it hit me across the face.

Does anyone?

My therapist asked me if I believe in healthy relationships. I told her that I figured that there was a spectrum, so there must be good ones out there, but I have never seen one in practice. She asked me to define what I thought one was. I had trouble answering. I knew that propping other people up wasn't healthy, and I knew that being raged at wasn't healthy, and I have wanted someone on equal footing as myself for some time. I know that I can communicate my needs better than ever before, but I often concentrate on my SO because they often have more crises. I know what's not healthy, but I have trouble defining the opposite.

I suppose that you'd have to try and define a healthy relationship too.

[Surnia]

Hi arn,

No personality disorders, but I am an extremely co-dependent drunk and I do show narcissistic/ BPD traits (fear of abandonment), and I don't have an unrealistic self-image, but I am rather hard on myself and tend to make a lot of jokes at my own expense.

Things you can work on and you are working on it. 

About choosing a healthy relationship: You are really not alone here. At least I have some ideas about the unhealthy ones. Step by step.

[seeking balance]

Arn,

Your post made me smile - you know why?  It was HONEST!  90% of the people on this board have been in a version of being in your shoes, but rarely do they put it on the table and take all the steps necessary to change.  For that, you really deserve 

So, now what?  I recall from 12 Step community (sorry if context is lost) willingness as being key to healing/recovery.  Praying for "willingness" to change. 

DBT - Marsha Linehan says the goal is "to have a life worth living".  Sounds to me like you really are doing the steps to create a life worth living and this will make a huge difference in both your life and the life of your child.

Sleep is so very important - I went on antidepressants for a while and mainly it was to balance out my sleep - it helped so much. 

That 10% boost from the SSRI had a subtle effect that combined with all the other good things - really made a big difference.

Thank you for your courage - keep us posted.

Peace,

SB

[Skip]

I AM sane.

Arn,

I'm going to pick at you a minute for being glib.

First, you are implying that you are sane and your ex and her boyfriend are not.  Most, if not all of us are sane.  Our exs are sane.  Your ex is sane.  Her bf is sane.

Sane is a legal term pertaining to a defendant's ability to determine right from wrong when a crime is committed. Here's the first sentence of law.com's lengthy definition:

Insanity. n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior.

Secondly, a large number of the SO discussed on this board do not have a clinical diagnosable personality disorder - they have sub-clinical traits.  And, as you say, you have sub-clinical traits of BPD and NPD.  It's not about who is more mentally off - its about how we discover and heal our own wounds.

Third,, you say "I wouldn't know a healthy RS if it hit me across the face.  :)oes anyone?"  Yes. People do.

And last - does your drinking fall into either of these DSM categories?  Did this have a significant impact on the relationship dynamics and how healthy a partner you were.

www.dsm5.org/Documents/Substance%20Use%20Disorder%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

You have to walk the talk, arn - not just say the words.

I had my weekly Friday visit with my P today, and we both decided a break from the bpdfamily website may be in order.  Maybe, once a month, to check in with friends I have made, and let the ones I have grown to love know how I am doing, and give the newcomer some hope.  

She is no longer my exBPD or myBPD or pscyhopath, or looney bird.  She is my son's mother, a human being that I loved for a long long time, a woman that I am okay with loving until the day I die, but I can love from a distance... . and she has a name. And it's not three letters capitalized.

You started on this path... . it's a good path.

There is a healthy and unhealthy way to use bpdfamily - you know both.

We run off the sides from time to time - its part of healing - and it's OK - and I'm writing to encourage you to get back on the pathway.

[arn131arn]

I appreciate your post as always Skip. My therapist was concerned that I was on here bashing BPD, when I told him that was not the case he told me if it was therapeutic for me by all means continue.

I will however leave if you don't want me here! Lol!

But no really, it's just so damn hard for me to find an answer in all if this. There is just so much information out there that may show me what's wrong with me. And I NEED that answer. As a science and math guy, I need to work the problem so I can get to the solution so I can box it in and it is proven.

I did that with god for all my life... . can't prove it, must not be one! And look where that thought process has gotten me. Not very far. But the past 4 months have shown me that there is one. And it's not me! And I know that Bc at the most difficult time in my life, there everyone was showing me that there was a God. And that in and of itself, is remarkable, at least to someone like me who wore his atheism as a badge of honor.

So, do I know where to go from here?

He'll no... . forward maybe?

Going fishing with my boy next weekend.

Good enough for a louse like me... .

Btw, I have no clue about anything psychological philosophical metaphysical... . nothing. It has never interested me, nor did I care until now. So the fact that I don't know definitions or meanings to the things I read or may sound good means that my understanding of what's wrong with her me or him is in it's infancy.

I want to care now, but never in the past

[arn131arn]

As far as my alcoholism, I admit it, it's the only thing I've ever been addicted to. It is my one true love, so yes, it played a great role in this relationship. I used it to cope, make me feel better than I was and about the relationship, and do what it always was able to do for me, and that was the power to say "So what."

You have a bigger truck? Better looking girl? Catch bigger fish? Make more money? So what! It helped me not look at what my problems are.

It gave her that self knowledge about myself ( Bc I knew I was an alcoholic), and she could spin that one character defect of mine ( and everything else that comes with alcoholism) into a campaign to control, feel better than me, and keep me under her thumb.

Sorry, Skip! The one thing I don't agree with you on is the fact that both of them ARE sane. What they have done to me the past 4 months prove they are both borderline narcissistic sociopaths (I just made that up  ) and I lived it, I know she has a PD and I don't care what it is.

It's not my job to figure out that, it's my job to figure out me, and that's what is so damn difficult and confusing right now. In my screwed up thinking I feel like I MUST have an answer right now, and if I can't find it then something is wrong with ME!

That's where I am right now... . confused. Unable to find an answer. The truth that I found was yes there is something wrong with me, and that was freeing for a bit... . now? Now is the why?

And I'm rambling... .

[Skip]

My therapist was concerned that I was on here bashing BPD

You were. Nonstop.

And calling the bf NPD and and proclaiming yourself sane is nicer, but its more of the same.

Saying that you're Batsh__ crazy for staying in the relationship is like a robber saying, I should never have have hung out with my accomplice.

Do you see that?

There is just so much information out there that may show me what's wrong with me. And I NEED that answer.

A good starting point is to ask, what problem(s) are you trying to solve or change are you trying to make?  And then start working on it (them).

[arn131arn]

Well that really pissed me off, Skip.

And the reason being is because there is truth in it. Something my sponsor always makes me see. In that uncomfortable place- I can grow. And you are right, the first 6 weeks I was bashing, but I know I am at a place where I am okay with it, and can choose not to play a role in it, and that I will be empathetic to her, forever. I AM just a phone call away, but I never have to go back there.

Skip, you don't know what they have done to me to try and sabotage my future. With them

Nothing is sacred. So, through all that, I can still love her, but I am NO doormat, and as an alcoholic in recovery who is in the process of making amends, I flounder, grovel, or bow before no man. I still need to protect my own ass. As a man, who knows my past transgressions, I go out to set those right by any means necessary. I do all I can to make those wrongs right, I am not going to be sober and live in shame/ regret. I did that while I drank!

Of course I see that I had to be just as messed up as her, I freely admitted it, but I don't think I was bashing her as much as I was bashing me. I AM harder on myself then others. Always have been.

My problem is physical, once I put alcohol in my body, my body craves more alcohol. No love from a mother, wife, kid, a father will be able to stop me drinking once I start. I have sex with a 500 lb gorilla, we ain't done having sex until the gorilla's done having sex. That is me drinking.

It's mental, and I can't stop obsessing over alcohol when it's not in my body. Therefore, sobriety is my problem. Not alcohol. Living a life sober is a major problem for me.

It's spiritual, Bc my spirit has been sickened, and the only way that these men have shown me how they stay sober is through a power greater than themselves that is the only mental defense they or I have to not put it in my body.

All this takes is a change in attitude to being about recovery, so I have recognized this is a MAJOR problem in my life and have worked diligently with my sponsor through the 12 steps to change my life.

As for every other mental, psychiatric, behavioral, mood, anxiety problems that I mind  myself about in a day basis, because I DID start to believe her on allot of things, well, that's what my Friday couch time is all about, I guess.  

So, I am working on it, it was freeing to see that I had a part in all of it. I WAS able to get free, Skip. I wasn't a victim anymore. And I got free. I guess, Now is the question of why? And that is why I am frustrated and confused. Does this make any sense?

And you don't know half of what they are STILL doing to me, even when I am not fighting back or playing there game. Even after, I did what you told me to do. Telling them I was happy for them and getting rid of the dragons so there was no need for the white knight (being on the other end of it (persecutor), I see how unattractive it is and I am going back to my alpha days))!

Thanks, you helped me see something today, I just may be looking for an answer that there is non to, and maybe I just need to be okay with that right now. The universe is looking after me.

Arn

[Skip]

Of course I see that I had to be just as messed up as her, I freely admitted it, but I don't think I was bashing her as much as I was bashing me. I AM harder on myself then others. Always have been.

Maybe it would help to stop all the bashing... . including yourself.

You want to get to the next step which is clarity.  You want to see them, your son, your life, and your self is a very honest and accurate way. This will help you make wise choices.  That takes discipline and strength - part of that strength is perseverance- remember, today is a reaction to what has happened in the last couple of years - not a reflection of just the day. 

The human dynamics between all the players are complex and, I expect that if you talked to anyone in this, they think they are doing the right thing - that they are the "good one".  That is possible.

The one common denominator is everyone want to do right by your son/her son/their grandson/their custody case.  The judge has signaled you (and everyone) that she wants you to be part of the sons life. 

To do that, everyone has to eventually come together and that is going to take time. People are going to be wary and suspicious and defensive and difficult.  Someone will have to be the peacemaker, the diplomat.

Is this a problem to be solved?  What is your role in this?

[arn131arn]

This is a problem that needs to be solved. I tried for 5 months to handle this amicably with her father. And I found out he wasn't going to do a damn thing for me. It was a trigger to talk to him a few times a week and get nowhere. And at that early early stage in my sobriety, I couldn't afford anymore anger.

When her father and I were about to agree on custody, she files 3 bogus ROs, 2 on me and one on my 5 foot little Italian mother. Her and my replacement have gone on a massive smear campaign, and have done something else so terrible, I don't want to even mention it on a public forum. So, would I like for our families to be amicable and loving and sing koombayah at my son's next birthday? Sure, but how? How do you make peace with someone who loves drama and chaos? How can you make amends to someone that you can only email about your son or make a phone call when it's an emergency with your son?

I know you think that she may not be BPD, and to tell you the truth, I really don't care if she is one way or the other. It was important to me in December, when I was a victim, before I did a 4th and 5th step and saw my part and understood more about myself than I ever had in my life. I WAS a liar, I HAD no self- esteem, I WAS hopeless, and I WAS full of fear.  So, she gets with another guy, wants me to have an amicable RS with her, I'm not ready for that and she tried and continuea to try and destroy me, and I just expect the families to come together and build a lemonade stand after all these lemons?

So, if you can sift through any of that, then, I guess what I'm trying to say is yes, it is a problem and will have to take time. I have been NC since Dec 11, I threw my guns down and surrendered to this war, and I ain't fighting her or anyone or anything again. But I know I need to protect myself. SHE IS NOT DONE HURTING ME! I guess my part in this, is that I went NC and didn't come begging for another chance? Who knows? I and my family fought back with our own gossip after 3 false ROs, but I now tell people it just didn't work out.

So, yeah, a problem, a major one, any ideas on how to work it out? If it's time, I have all the time in the world... .

[Skip]

I know you think that she may not be BPD, and to tell you the truth, I really don't care if she is one way or the other.

Arn, I don't know anything about her... . and I am not here to defend her.  It's about your healing.  And your son.

I tried for 5 months to handle this amicably with her father

Arn, you were hurt back in December and lashing out at her and the family.  It's understandable.  But at the same time, you might see how they could feel you weren't being reasonable.  As you say "I WAS a liar, I HAD no self- esteem, I WAS hopeless, and I WAS full of fear."

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=216138

So, she gets with another guy, wants me to have an amicable RS with her, I'm not ready for that and she tried and continue a to try and destroy me, and I just expect the families to come together and build a lemonade stand after all these lemons?

You guys split in August over your drinking, talked about reconciling, but it didn't come together.  The new relationship came in December.  And it was then that she tried to set up an amicable RS and you were "not ready".

I guess my part in this, is that I went NC and didn't come begging for another chance? Who knows?

Well maybe. If you split in August and didn't want her back, and rejected her attempts at an amicable post relationship when she then started to someone else in December... .    

So, would I like for our families to be amicable and loving and sing koombayah at my son's next birthday? Sure, but how? How do you make peace with someone who loves drama and chaos? How can you make amends to someone that you can only email about your son or make a phone call when it's an emergency with your son?

They offered that at Christmas and you fought them on it.  They are probably saying this about you, too.  It's a cycle of conflict now.

It will take some effort to undo it.  The first part of this is seeing this complex dynamic and not making it worse.  And blaming it all on them will make it worse.

But I know I need to protect myself.

Absolutely.

[arn131arn]

Thanks... . you are right

[Want2know]

My evaluation came back. I AM sane. No personality disorders, but I am an extremely co-dependent drunk and I do show narcissistic/ BPD traits (fear of abandonment), and I don't have an unrealistic self-image, but I am rather hard on myself and tend to make a lot of jokes at my own expense. Which is a trait of a covert narcissist.

So where do you go from here?  

Personal inventory is the place to work it all out, however hard the facts of our thinking and behavior come back at us.

I read through this thread, and a bit of your history here and see someone who looks as though they want to figure out how to move forward, yet is still grounded in some victimization.  

This stuff is hard.  Personally, I've been a member for 4 years and am still being confronted with placing the 'blame' elsewhere.

[arn131arn]

I appreciate your post W2K. I am no victim though. Do I like how she dropped her family and immediately replaced me? No.

Do I like the 3 false ROs against me and my mother? No.

Do I like the smear campaigns and doing illegal things to try and ruin my future? No.

Am I frustrated because I am working very hard to find out about me and what my problems are? Yes.

I see my part clear as day. I see an overly sensitive alcoholic who has become extremely co-dependent and lost all sense of self in a relationship that I always wanted more than her.

I had no idea she had a mental disorder. Funny, everyone else around me thought there were issues, but like I said, I was enmeshed. Literally. I stayed after 40+ recycles. Yep, that did a number on my heart, and I was the one that always went back. My fault. I own it. I let my embarrassment or how the outside world would look at us as a broken family sway my decision EACH AND EVERY TIME! It was more important how you felt about me then how I felt about me. Alcoholic enough for you? Honest enough?

She asked me to quit drinking, I quit. Doing good for 2-3 months and she would say how we could never go out and drink and have a good time. So, I would go out and drink with her and then she would complain that I was drinking. Still my fault! She never put the bottle to my lips.

She would pull away, and I would try harder. The more passive aggressive she got the more angry, resentful, and verbally abusive I got. Drinking became the way I coped. I could care less what she said to me and if she slept with my son for 10 days straight. I was drunk and that's how I self soothed. My fault.

When she absolutely refused to help pay bills around the house or work and had me working and going to school full time, I got tired. I missed so much family time with her and my son, that I was very resentful. So, I got drunk. My fault! I should have sold the house and for a smaller place. Or moved and kept it as a rental. All my fault

One of the healthiest lessons I've ever learned is that if I am pissed off and angry about something, then I HAD A ROLE TO PLAY IN THAT ANGER! That way I can see my part, recognize that when I do the exercise, the ink on that paper when I write my story is on my handwriting. It's my truth.

So, victim? Not anymore. Frustrated? Hell yeah. Because I need to have an answer to why I stayed for as long as I did, and I can't comprehend why.

I have compassion for her, and I always will. I will not ever go back but if she needs me I'll be there. This is after trying to destroy me and keep my son away from me. She used my alcoholism against me. She knew I was ashamed of it, and constantly called me a "drunk" on front of my son.

Well, I don't drink anymore, and life really is allot better. It just may be the best thing that has ever happened to me (being a drunk) because I can recover.

Just feel stuck... .