I'm having trouble just accepting the fact that my ex has BPD

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I found this quote in another topic Seems fitting hear as well


Quote from: AwakenedOne

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=223108.msg12417062#msg12417062

Does my uBPDstbxW have BPD for sure without any doubt? It doesn't matter to me because I look at it like this ->

If she doesn't have BPD I consider her worse because that would make her a selfish, cruel, etc... . person who has no

excuse for being that way. Either way the relationship isn't to be, right?

[itsnotme567]

I found this quote in another topic Seems fitting hear as well


Quote from: AwakenedOne

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=223108.msg12417062#msg12417062

Does my uBPDstbxW have BPD for sure without any doubt? It doesn't matter to me because I look at it like this ->

If she doesn't have BPD I consider her worse because that would make her a selfish, cruel, etc... . person who has no

excuse for being that way. Either way the relationship isn't to be, right?

[sirensong65]

This entire thread helped me so much and resonates SO much with where I am in my thought process.  I'm going to print this and keep it at my bed side to read when I let my thoughts go where they should NOT... .

Hang in there, we are all in the same boat on here, just different stages and different people whom me fell for but who ALL could be described the exact same way.  If that ain't BPD, I don't know what IS!

And what I am finding out is there are seven stages of grief, but they don't go in order and they don't come round the mountain one damn time, but may re visit me just when I think I am done with that stage... .   Ridiculous.

[day2day]

Wily, first of all, I love the wren picture you use when you post.

I don't know if you've ever tried birdwatching, but from my perspective it's one of the best ways to get away from your thoughts for a while. Walk in the woods, enjoy nature, enjoy your own company, learn something by accident... . all good stuff.

There are lots of similarities between your story and mine. Six year relationship. Adult child for a mother. Distant father. Abusive past relationships.  Body image issues. Low self-esteem. Lives in perpetual fear and cynicism. But displays a cheery, upbeat "fake it to make it" personality for the rest of the world to see.

Mine was not a yeller but certainly followed the script of going from idealizing to clinging to criticizing to devaluing to distancing. She dumped me abruptly following not an argument, mind you, but a nice dinner. In fact, we hardly ever argued. Neither of us ever swore at the other or even name called.

When the breakup was taking place, my ex sent me an e-mail which was almost word-for-word what yours said to you when she tried to rekindle a "friendship." Great guy, no one cared more, taught her so much, lit up the room, always there for her... .

That's still the craziest part. Nothing but a list of virtues! Highest praise possible! No complaints or reasons for breaking up. And the most deeply disturbing comment of all... . "After all we've experienced, the word "friend" doesn't seem big enough, but in light of all I'm going through right now, it's the best term."

Following that, which was almost one year ago, there have been a couple very ambiguous attempts on her part to re-establish "something" but each time when I've responded, the door immediately slammed shut.

I've been NC since December.

Does any of this have a familiar ring to it?

Learning about pwBPD explains so much. I try to always keep in mind that they are guided by overwhelming, inescapable fears of being alone, of becoming engulfed, and of being abandoned. These form an insidious triangle. Fear of engulfment leads to abandonment, abandonment leads to being alone, and being alone leads to once again the possibility of engulfed.I try not to think of pwBPD as "selfish" but rather just completely unable to calm the demons within. I liken the world they experience to a painful, terrifying, never-ending ambulance ride. "Can't" to me describes a lot of their shortcomings better than "won't." Each new relationship they get involved in becomes the potential elixir of life, the antidote for intractable pain, for them. It's bound to lead to disappointment when the bar is set so high, and when their own emotional tools to love not only others but themselves are so lacking. Each failure leads to more shame and self-doubt, which they already have excessive amounts of.

There are a lot of conversations going on at the same time inside the head of a pwBPD. The result is chaos. I would guess that when she thinks of you, it's with a mixture of sadness, discomfort, shame, guilt, wistfulness and longing to return to the early fantasy days, a feeling of how decent, safe, and comforting you were, a possible target for a temporary fix for the profound emptiness, a desire to gain some kind of control of a life spinning out of control, and who knows what else.

Does she know you suspect she has BPD? Not that I'm advocating that you tell her!

I think you have every right to vent and I think it's normal to be tortured by all the conflicting feelings and emotions you're experiencing. One thing I've wrestled with mightily is the struggle between the angry side of me and the compassionate side. I've got to let that anger have its full say and eventually sit back down and give compassion the podium. Trust your T for validation. He's gotten to know you pretty well. Give yourself time. Keep telling yourself this isn't your average r/s problem, because it isn't. Be patient. Expect good days and bad days. Your world will come back to you. But I would advise you to reconnect with that world without her playing a role in it.

Stay strong, Wily. You've got brothers!

[willy45]

Hi Day2Day,

Thank you so much for the thoughtful post! I really appreciate it. Yeah. It's so crazy.It doesn't make any sense. It's like she wants all the benefits of a relationship without a relationship. It's completely non sensicle in my mind. Forget that. Why would I want that? Makes no sense.

[elizabeth716]

I know how you feel, it is difficult to accept that someone that we cared so deeply for, is sick. It took me many months until it finally sunk in, and I finally accepted it. I was in disbelief, because I think I was in denial. There was a small part of me that didn't want to accept it, because I thought that I could somehow make her understand, or try to help her. I had to let that ideal go, until I did that, I accepted it for what it is.

I cannot begin to count the different ways that I've tried to filter my situation through a logical context... . All I wanted to do is to be able to understand, stop hurting, help, and then things would be better. Then, I moved on to  understand for my own sanity. Confusion loomed... . and I tried so hard to get it. Then I realized... . I was driving myself crazy. And I started to detach... . slowly... . which has been excruciatingly painful for me... . my husband and I have been together for 19 years... . but as I took more time to focus on myself, my codependent nature... . and providing a safe and healthy environment for my son... . the less I desired understanding. Peace came to me as I grieved... . it replaced my frantic race towards fitting this into a context. Trust me when I say, I completely see and have felt the need to understand. But with that time and energy you can focus on all of the amazing things that you have in your life and further untangle yourself from these unhealthy patterns.

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious"

-Albert Einstein

[willy45]

Yes. Thanks. I'm starting to see that now. I got angry today, which was good. And then a thought dawned on me... . 'What a b!tch'. Sorry for the sexist language. It's almost funny. To say all these wonderful things and then turn around and say all these hurtful things. Seriously. What a b!tch. To beg me to be her best friend and then tell me how I made her so miserable. The most miserable she's ever been. That is just so hurtful. And the right after telling me she doesn't want to talk about the relationship. And then telling me not to be mean to her. What the h#'ll. F that.

[Mutt]

Yes. Thanks. I'm starting to see that now. I got angry today, which was good. And then a thought dawned on me... . 'What a b!tch'. Sorry for the sexist language. It's almost funny. To say all these wonderful things and then turn around and say all these hurtful things. Seriously. What a b!tch. To beg me to be her best friend and then tell me how I made her so miserable. The most miserable she's ever been. That is just so hurtful. And the right after telling me she doesn't want to talk about the relationship. And then telling me not to be mean to her. What the h#'ll. F that.

You're triggered and hurt.

She's triggered and hurt.

[willy45]

Yeah. Agreed. But regardless, I still didn't say anything hurtful to her like that. I think that is the difference. I can feel my emotions, know where they come from, and not lash out. She, on the other hand, can't. And that is why I left. That's the difference here. Of course I'm triggered. And of course she is triggered. That's the WHOLE REASON to not talk. But that doesn't make sense to her.

And her emotional map is so all over the place, it doesn't make any sense. I don't care that she is mentally unstable. I'm fed up with it. That is why I left her. That is why I've gone NC. She is an absolute emotional bully. She even had the nerve on this phone call to chastise me for 'not being nice to her' for the last few times I mistakenly picked up the phone and told her I was get a therapist if she ever had the urge to call me again. She had to nerve to chastise me for the second last time I talked to her and she was begging me to explain to her why I left and I was 100% honest with her for the first time. I left her because she was emotionally and verbally abusive. She kept pushing it. So I told her. That was the truth. And this was after I told her we shouldn't speak, that I didn't have anything nice to say and that we should just leave it be and heal. But she kept pushing and didn't like the answer. Then she pulled the whole guilt trip again. I mean, come on. If someone keeps calling and texting and emailing and they have been specifically told not to and then the person who said 'NO' says 'NO' again, that isn't being mean. It is totally ludicrous. To her, she contacts me out of 'love for me' (Her words).

She is just so manipulative. Guilt trips, push/pull. She is an emotional bully. That is how she is with her family. And, lucky me. She considers me her family. Awesome. I really want her to go away.

Man. It is so annoying. Now, she is trying to get involved in one of the big projects I am working on. I wish to God she didn't work in the same area that I do. We didn't when we were together but now we do. And it is just so awesome that I can't not do it. An opportunity of a life time for me. Now she sees that I am in the inner circle of a group that she knows but that I'm not sure she truly a part of. I got into this circle because of how I am. She knows this inner circle because of her position at work. It is tainting my feelings towards this project, which is the biggest project I have ever worked on in my life. She sent me a text on Friday asking me to pick my brain on how she can use my project with some of her contacts. AGGGGGG! It just feels like she is brainstorming ways to get into what I'm doing from her position. Push. Push. Push. She can't just let me have this. She has to be a part of it. I am a contractor. She is an employee. She doesn't have to do this. She basically can't get fired. She can do a million other things. Why push on this now? Because I'm involved. It is creepy and I hate it.

But, I stand by my earlier comment. Mental illness or not. She is an emotional bully. A verbal and emotional abuser. And she is trying to suck me back into her life in any way she can.

Thanks for listening.

[willy45]

Oh. And in terms of the original subject of this post: I'm having trouble just accepting the fact that my ex has BPD. This behavior just seems so typical of BPD. Push/pull. Anger. Rejection. Lashing out. Verbal abuse. Emotional manipulations. I don't care if she is triggered or not. We all are. I didn't do anything or say anything to cause her to act this way. A normal human being would have listened to my words 'I can't just be friends with you, it is too painful' and heard those and not twist them into some sick thing about me begging for her to come back. A normal human being with a healthy dose of emotional stability would hear that and say 'Oh, I'm so sorry. I know you told me not to call before. I didn't realize how it made you feel. I'm really sorry I caused you pain again'. And that would be that. In fact, that would have been that 1.5 years ago, 1 year ago, 6 months ago. And now. A BPD would do exactly as she did. Blame. Guilt. Shame. Idealize. Devalue.

If I am triggered, it is because it triggers the memories of all the emotional abuse I took when I was with her. My brain goes into automatic What the heck mode and can't make sense of it. My body is FREAKING OUT because it knows it is dangerous. And I am just now starting to get very angry again at her for doing this AGAIN. And I keep friggin' falling for it. I just want to accept that this person is not well, that she is poison for me. That she was before. That she is now. That she is not doing anything to get better (because the problem, to her, clearly lies with me even though I am her best friend in the entire world). So, I just need to let go. Not engage.

[LettingGo14]

Yeah. Agreed. But regardless, I still didn't say anything hurtful to her like that. I think that is the difference. I can feel my emotions, know where they come from, and not lash out. She, on the other hand, can't. And that is why I left. That's the difference here. Of course I'm triggered. And of course she is triggered. That's the WHOLE REASON to not talk. But that doesn't make sense to her.

Willy, what about the emotion of "fear"?   Like you, I locked all my doors, blocked all access, and drew boundaries.   But "fear" still keeps me stuck in some way.   It's got everything to do with me, and my internal map, and nothing to do with my ex-girlfriend.   There are plenty of scary people I don't fear [an old boss comes to mind] but, with my ex-girlfriend, I fear what happens to me when I interact with her.

So, what does this mean?   Do I sit behind locked doors for the rest of my life, hoping that she doesn't hunt me down?  

I think it means I learn to draw boundaries where I feel safe.   I don't want to live in fear of reacting somehow if she contacts me.  

She sent me a text on Friday asking me to pick my brain on how she can use my project with some of her contacts. AGGGGGG! It just feels like she is brainstorming ways to get into what I'm doing from her position. Push. Push. Push. She can't just let me have this. She has to be a part of it. I am a contractor. She is an employee. She doesn't have to do this. She basically can't get fired. She can do a million other things. Why push on this now? Because I'm involved. It is creepy and I hate it.

This IS painful.  What can you do now to take care of you?  How do you draw boundaries in a way to make you feel safe?  

[Mutt]

Yeah. Agreed. But regardless, I still didn't say anything hurtful to her like that. I think that is the difference. I can feel my emotions, know where they come from, and not lash out. She, on the other hand, can't.

You're expecting her to behave as a non-disordered person, you say that she can't. If she is triggered, then take it as just that, yes they say things that are painful and hurtful, but you will eventually become depersonalized.

And she is trying to suck me back into her life in any way she can.

Sucked back into what? If you have boundaries in place, stick to them. It's up to you to defend your boundaries.

[willy45]

Yes. That is 100% true! I was expecting her to react as a non-disordered person. This is where I clearly get stuck and I guess the reason for my thread. It is about accepting that she is disordered. And as such, I cannot expect there to ever be a normal response or any real empathy. I think in the past, any empathy I thought was coming from her in terms of what she felt was not empathy towards me but rather her response in terms of how my feelings might impact her. Man, that is such an incredible insight. I honestly can't remember a time when something that was bothering me was empathized with. It was always turned into how my feelings impacted her. She would either tell me to stop feeling that or would tell me why how my feelings impacted her. Wow. That is pretty nuts. I guess this is why the BPD label is so powerful. It puts things into complete context. It takes away the hurt of it all because it has NOTHING to do with me. She just doesn't have that capacity.

I'm still in shock that she would continue to push my boundaries after everything I've said to her. Really. It is shocking. It is shocking that she considers me her best friend in the world. So, so, so, so weird.

[Mutt]

She just doesn't have that capacity.

You are correct. It's arrested development.

I'm still in shock that she would continue to push my boundaries after everything I've said to her.

Mine still pushes mine, but I defend them and I've become more depersonalized.

It takes time willy45. It took me a long time to accept it. I had my emotions vested, and not looking at the big picture, the bar was set too high. I can't expect her to react / cope like me. She simply copes differently.

[seeking balance]

5 Stages of detachment are to the right Willy -

Step 1 - Acknowledgment

Anger is a mask for pain - you are angry and having a hard time accepting the facts - can you push past the anger and access the pain?  What are you really hurting about Willy?

[myself]

Willy, can it be that you are more upset with yourself than with her? Turning her into a scapegoat more than facing yourself? Feel your feelings. Find where they are coming from. Free yourself. This isn't about her behaviors anymore, it's about your reactions. About setting up your life now to not have to deal with her, and the pains that get stirred up, if you so choose. What can you do to better your situation?

[willy45]

Yeah. I don't think I'm more angry at myself. I mean, I am in the sense that I answered the call. That was stupid. And I am mad at myself that I just forgot that she is a crazy lunatic or that she would have any caring for me whatsoever. But no. I am more angry at her. I've spent too long being angry at myself. That isn't productive for me. Anger is a useful emotion to push away things that are harmful. And that is what I need to do. I know everyone is going to jump all over for me for saying that I am angry that she continues to push the boundaries further and further. But What the heck? Why should I NOT be angry. Isn't NOT being angry about it the whole reason why I still let it happen? I get all this internally focused stuff. But right now, I don't find it helpful. It is just another way to beat myself up about everything and that is EXACTLY what she is praying on. It is the exact purpose of her words. It is the exact outcome she expects and wants. Trust me. I know this person.

So no. I can forgive myself for being hopeful that she got some help or came to some kind of realization that would make her not such a crazy person. But no, I'm not going take on the anger of having this crazy person affect me. She knows what she is doing. She doesn't care. She just keeps pushing. And pushing. And pushing. F that.

And as for focusing on the pain, that doesn't seem super helpful for me right now. What I need to focus on is getting this person out of my life. Focusing on the pain doesn't help in that regard. There is plenty of time for that. I need to harness the anger to make sure I don't ever have contact with her again. And, if I happen to pump into her, I can see her for who she truly is... . a sad, lonely, abusive person who only wants from me something to make herself feel better regardless of the costs to me. That, is what she wants. And I am not going to give it to her.

[LettingGo14]

I know everyone is going to jump all over for me for saying that I am angry that she continues to push the boundaries further and further. But What the heck? Why should I NOT be angry. Isn't NOT being angry about it the whole reason why I still let it happen?

The benefit of this community is that no one will "jump all over you."   It seems to me that, on the detaching board, we are trying to help each other process difficult circumstances.   To redirect attention to areas that may be helpful.   I firmly believe "detachment leads to freedom."

If anger lets you draw boundaries, perhaps it may be viewed as healthy, at least initally.  For me, a difficult downside to anger has been that "anger can be like taking poison, and expecting the other person to die."   

This was a helpful thread for me on anger:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=135831.0

What are you doing to take care of yourself? 

[AwakenedOne]

I honestly can't remember a time when something that was bothering me was empathized with. It was always turned into how my feelings impacted her. She would either tell me to stop feeling that or would tell me why how my feelings impacted her. Wow. That is pretty nuts.

My uBPDstbxW did the exact same thing.

[willy45]

Yeah. I don't know why it doesn't sink in. I made a huge mistake telling how her contact with me made me feel. I'm sure she loved to hear that. And it didn't matter to her one bit. As long as she got her best friend back. It's all about her. I don't matter. The same feeling as when she would rage at me and then wonder why I looked so glum. And then telling me I had mental health issues that I should look into. I mean, come on. I do have mental health issues and that issue is her in my life in any capacity.

[day2day]

I honestly can't remember a time when something that was bothering me was empathized with. It was always turned into how my feelings impacted her. She would either tell me to stop feeling that or would tell me why how my feelings impacted her. Wow. That is pretty nuts.

My uBPDstbxW did the exact same thing.

This is so, so true! ":)on't have a problem because it takes the focus away from all mine. Don't love your dogs or your hobbies or your family because it takes your time away from me. Don't get sick because it triggers my fear of abandonment."

Such BS when you look back.

Wily, there's a saying to the effect that just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone can't be following you. I hear what you're saying here. You want her to leave you the F alone! You may have to take some extraordinary measures here: change your phone number, change your e-mail address, block her on social media, change your locks. Maybe you've done some of these.

Do you happen to know anyone who's mobbed up who owes you a favor?

Of course I'm joking! Hope it make ya laugh... .

[KJB1956]

I was having the same problem, I had to understand everything, I suppose so if I could understand it I could fix it... . but that's crazy making because you may understand one aspect of it, but she/he will turn around and try something new and unique and just when you think you're on top of things you'll be off chasing another answer and using all that energy focused in, rather than focused on a good future for yourself.  I was amazed at how much energy was freed up when I stopped trying to figure him out.  I finally, somehow got so tired of doing it that I just quit.  I sometimes want to convince him I'm not the terible person he thinks I am, but for the most part I'm beyond that too because I know it's his sickness speaking.  When I tell him if you don't want me in your life let me know, because I don't want to be with someone that doesn't want me, then he'll be instantly rational.  I think all that crazy making stuff is a game just to keep us off balance and at their mercy.

[willy45]

Ha ha. I like that quote... . Just because your paranoid doesn't mean someone's not after you. Love it. That's totally how I feel. I asked my T what she was after. He said 'all of you', she wants to ' devour you'. I guess that freaked me out. I guess he just wanted to warn me because this is dangerous. And honestly, I believe him. I know her and I know what she is capable of. She wants to push and push and push. Until what? Yes. I need to get a new phone number. It's tied to my business though, which sucks.

[willy45]

I went out on a limb today and called up an old mutual friend of mine who is still really close to my ex. She was one of my best friends back in the day but I kind of just let my ex have her as I figured she needed friends and I have tons. Anyhow, a couple of days ago, it dawned on me that this mutual friend witnessed one of my ex's meltdowns (one of the few times I could remember there being a third party present).

We were going to a baseball game to meet this friend. My ex was an hour late. When she showed up, I had my bike and tried to lock it up. She told me it should go somewhere away from the crowds. So, as I walked towards a place with less people, she started yelling at me to hurry up. I walked back and she was furious. She started going on and on about how we were late and to hurry up and why did I have to put the bike so far away. I told her she was the one who was an hour late and she is the one who told me to lock up the bike further away so calm down. We ended up finding her friend and all seemed fine with her. She was happy to see us. But my ex started to have a complete meltdown. We went up to the seats and she disappeared for an hour. She found us and had to go to the bathroom so my friend and I waited outside. We waited for about 40 minutes and my ex didn't return. I went looking around from her and finally found her. She berated me for not waiting for her at the bathroom (which I was, with our mutual friend). And then she took off again. I remember looking over at our mutual friend and she looked back at me. She was half smiling but I think she was just feeling awkward and didn't know what to say. It was weird.

Anyhow, I called up the mutual friend tonight. I haven't spoken to her in two years. I wasn't sure what I was looking for. Only that I remembered this time and thought maybe I could talk to her about it. I also wanted to talk to her about my ex constantly contacting me and wondering if she had any advice or could figure something out. I was nervous because I didn't know how it would go. The strange thing is, I started talking about why I broke up with my ex (she never really knew) and she brought up the baseball time and told me she thought that was really strange. She said: "You know, a handful of those times would be all it takes to end a relationship". And then she said: "I can't imagine what 5 years of that would have been like".

She seemed really open to hearing what I had to say. She felt kind of bad for not talking to me about it sooner. She said that she could see things weren't right between us but that she never really brought it up and that she was sorry for that. I told her that it was OK. It wasn't her role to do that. And that really it was my mistake for not talking about it anyways. It was a really good call.

I hope that this validation can help. I have found one of the hardest things about all this is that nobody else witnessed it. They just witness me now and what a mess I am. It was really great to get some validation from someone else who I was close to, who is close to her, and who seemed to really listen.

I told her not to tell my ex that I called and that my intention wasn't to at all get in the way of their friendship (it's not). I told her that I still love my ex very, very much but that her constant contact of me is making me insane and breaking me. She seemed to get that. She then told me stories about when she was in an abusive relationship, so she understand how I felt. She said it wasn't that hard for her to leave because she didn't love the person she was with who was abusive. She just left. She said that it must be so hard for me because I do still love this person.

Anyhow, I hope this piece of validation can help a little bit. My friend asked me if there was anything she could do to help. I told her no, just her sharing that and how weird she thought it was and how odd her husband thought it was was really helpful.

Her advice to me: change your phone number.

I think I'm going to have to do that.

[heartandwhole]

Hi willy45,

I'm glad that you were able to talk to someone who actually experienced a little of the behavior that was so difficult in your relationship, that is indeed validating.  :)o you feel like some weight has come off your shoulders a bit?

Her advice to me: change your phone number.

I think I'm going to have to do that.

Sounds like a plan.  If you've asked her to stop contacting you, and she continues, it might be a good idea.  

[willy45]

For some reason, I feel worse. I have no idea why. I guess now I just have to grieve. That's all that is left to do. The sh'tty thing is, I did grieve before. And I was taking my time with it. And I was feeling better. I resent having to do it again.

I have asked her before to not contact me. She has never respected it before. My question now is do I tell her again or just change my number?

[willy45]

I don't know why I feel so terrible today. Spoke to a mutual friend last night and she was nothing but sympathetic and validating. Went to see my T and he was the same.

Why do I feel like such ___ today?

I am still terrified of her contacting me. And I am terrified of this happening again. I can change my phone number but she will still be able to email me. I can't just permanently delete emails on GMAIL. It goes to Trash.

And I'm terrified I will see her at a big event next month that I can't miss. I don't want to see her. I don't want to miss her more. I know that I will if I do. I know I will feel ___ty about myself.

Agggg... . I'm really spiraling out of control here.

[Skip]

Have you taken the "depression" test?

bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=79772.0