How many times can I break til I shatter?

[Landslide2014]

Forgive me in advance, but I am about to rant. I feel like a child about to have a tantrum. I just feel the need to let off steam before I blow.  

3 (maybe 4x) I told  my 21+ year uBPDH we were through. Right now I don't even care what disorder it is, whether he is or he isn't.  All I know is that I just can't breathe anymore living in the same space.  

My final attempt to drill into his head that I meant we were done was to tell him I preferred mediation, wholeheartedly.  However, if he could not agree with this by Tuesday (5 days after the 2nd clarification) that I would have to retain an attorney. Monday night he emails me the name of a marriage counselor with "divorce mediation" in small writing. So I asked "is this a counselor or mediator, I'm confused."  "Both" was the answer. I clarified again that I need to move on, called the "mediator" to confirm her role, and set up 2 tentative appointments. She sounded extremely rational. I proposed the dates to my H. His reponse... . "I need at least 4?more sessions with my T if I'm going to handle mediation with you".  

In the meantime, HIS  T called ME and asked for a 2nd personal session with me.  I was perplexed and it did not sit right with me in my gut. My curiosity got the best of me and I agreed. I respect his T and last time he completely validated my quest. Anyway, although he validated my path to healing this time as well, he continued to suggest that sometimes the most difficult challenges produce the most growth and that this challenge may be exactly what I needed to heal. I agree with the healing it has brought thus far. I disagree that I should torture myself and jeopardize my happiness to grow. I can continue my growth without drowning in it.

So in the past 5 days, H has literally been breathing down my throat. Over compensating for everything. Coming home early to pick up my son, involving himself in my bedtime ritual with my son on my nights, showing up at my moms when I am there helping her, as she is ill.  Getting take-out for the kids when he was not supposed to be home. Being "present" and conversing with my d14 and d17. Even if there were a chance that this behaviour would last, I still don't care. I am bitter. I am at peace and happy with myself, my children, my work relationships, friendships. When I am breathing his air I feel like puking. I know that there is stuff there for me to look at within myself, but anymore of this suffocation and I might be doing it from a mental institution.  I feel like I am trying to scream underwater. I am so frustrated and enraged.  I just want him to leave me alone. I feel like I am being psychologically tortured and I cannot rationally explain it, even to myself. Words just don't fit the mental anguish and there is still that little voice that says "maybe it's you". I cannot wait to see my T in 2 days, or to hear from someone out there. I feel like a yo yo. Up/High in his a absense and down/low in his presense. And I know if I break it will be just the control that feeds his addiction. Arghhhhhh!

[willy45]

Oh man. I hear what you are saying. You are done. Done. Done. Done.

And you should celebrate that. That is a victory. You know you are done. Do what you need to do to get out. It sounds like what him and his T are up to is weird. That seems to be crossing some serious professional boundaries... . the whole... . this is a great opportunity to grow thing sounds like nonsense to me. I remember reading about BPD and councilling because that is something I never did with my ex... . I kept thinking that if I went to councilling with her, I would get deeper involved and that it would just end up being a blame game where she and the T would gang up on me. Deep down I knew I didn't have the strength to stick up for myself. And to be honest, I knew deep down that I didn't want to be with her. So, good for you for sticking up for yourself. I have also read a lot about how councilling can make it worse because the councillor may not have experience with BPD and people with BPD can sound completely normal and logical and can work to make you feel even worse about yourself and continue in the blaming cycle. I was worried the most that the councillor would agree with my ex... . that her rage and anger WAS the result of my not moving in with her. That was my biggest fear because then my next step would have been moving in her... . which scared the ___ out of me.

And that voice... . I KNOW THAT VOICE! It is part of the crazy-ness. For all the talk of validation and blah blah blah about how to deal with BPDers, there is very little about learning to validate your OWN voice. Perhaps this is where we should all focus all our attention. Why learn to constantly validate someone who is abusive and raging and mean and contractory and aggressive... . Why not learn to validate our own voices. The one's that say... . Hey! This is not right. I DON'T have to be here. I DON'T have to stay. I DON'T BELIEVE ANYMORE!

It sounds like that voice is coming out loud and clear. And I know the voice of doubt and guilt and self-blame. If your H is anything like my ex, that voice is hers... . constantly telling me that she would stop yelling and raging at me if I changed my behavior. How insane is that? I HAD TO CHANGE MY BEHAVIOR? That makes absolutely no sense. But I suppressed my voice until I was DONE like you are now.

Not sure if this helps or not. But I hear you. You aren't crazy. You need to get out. And you deserve to get out. This ambush thing with his T sounds unprofessional.

[Want2know]

I cannot wait to see my T in 2 days, or to hear from someone out there. I feel like a yo yo. Up/High in his a absense and down/low in his presense. And I know if I break it will be just the control that feeds his addiction. Arghhhhhh!

Glad you are working through this with your T.  What advice have you received from them regarding divorcing vs. reconciling?

Your feelings in your vent are strong.  Understandable.  Do you feel this way all the time, or do you have moments where you think you want to reconcile, considering he is making an effort right now and is not sure he is ready to commit to a divorce?

[Landslide2014]

So thank you for your replies. I really never feel like reconciling anymore.  I have spent the last 10 years hoping and changing, the last 2 of which I've finally become honest with myself. I have made up my mind about what I must do to restore my sanity. My T has helped me to see this light and has given me the support to stop second guessing myself and to take action to end the relationship.  I have abandoned myself my whole life by putting the needs of others before mine. Especially my H.  This is not always a a bad thing, but it is a bad thing for me when I do it always. After my decision to not only count myself as worthy and important when taking care, my marriage became extremely unsteady. I detached with love and it was met with utter resistance. I give it a lot of thought and a lot of time. I rocked the boat. I made changes and adjustments so that the boat would not tip, but it is my belief that it takes two in a relationship to achieve that balance.

My H has always showed up.  To that I credit him. He has never shown a true understanding or that he can relate on the level that I desire. I realize this is part of his make up. With the awareness that I was not alone, that my searching for and understanding of something that I could never quite explain apperared to me on this sight, everything came into focus for me, as if a veil had been lifted from my eyes. I tried, with that knowledge to be more understanding and accepting of the cards in my hand.

You know what?  I have accepted, though the outcome is not what I had planned. I need peace right now, for me and my children. I am exhausted and have no more to toward this cause, even though I sometime wish I could (though this is not being true to myself). I have volunteered to take the responsibility not only for my alcoholic mother, rageaholic father and uBPD H, but for everyone else for so long. I am finally feeling safe and free to be who I truly believe I was meant to be, offer my gifts, say "no" when I need to.  This has benefitted me and the healthy people in my life. I've got a lot of work to do and though I no longer feel the need to conquer mountains to do it. Life offers enough rough terrain of which I have no choice over. This time, I am finally able to realize, I do have a choice in the matter.  Not a choice about changing anyone else, rather, a choice about walking way from a toxic environment for the sake of my happiness.  

[Want2know]

You know what?  I have accepted, though the outcome is not what I had planned. I need peace right now, for me and my children. I am exhausted and have no more to toward this cause, even though I sometime wish I could (though this is not being true to myself).

I understand wanting some peace.   

I see in another thread that you started that there was mention of a therapeutic separation.  You already have some of the pieces that are required for this, ie. both of you being in therapy.  The process can bring you some peace and give both you and him time to work out the details to see if divorce really is the only answer.

You can read more about therapeutic separation here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=141686.0

I mention this, not to create more stress for you  - I hear that you are exhausted.  I wanted to address this possibility with you because being exhausted can lead to decisions that perhaps are not in the best interest of everyone involved, including yourself.

The attorney I consulted did tell me that my older kids would basically decide where they wanted to live.  It breaks my heart to put them in that position. As, unhealthy as my H is, he is still their father and he is a good father. He is just not the more stable parent.

You say he is a good father, and is in therapy, making effort.  Do you think that it might be worth it to bring the possibility of a therapeutic separation up with your T?  Giving you some real space to think this through in a more peaceful frame of mind may help you more than you think.

Hang in there!

[Landslide2014]

Thanks for the suggestion, want2know. I actual don't think I was the one who brought up therapeutic separation, I believe it was Skip who introduced the idea in an earlier post. At the suggestion, my immediate reaction was to defend my efforts. As we have had an in home separation with rules that has done nothing but divide us even further. I am really at my breaking point. I also do feel added pressure with the thought of yet another go at salvation.  After reading about TS in a more relaxed frame of mind, I found it interesting. My problem is... . And it is a problem right now,  that I always take on the responsibility to try JUST ONE MORE THING. I just need a break, "time", as you said, to focus on myself. Mediation, separation assuming we are both in therapy really is a form of therapeutic separation, don't you think?

Yesterday,  I read the success stories.  (I judge that is mental on my part because it proves that I am still having a hard time accepting this and that is just prolonging the inevitable).  Even though there were many positive results in the stories, and even a few that seemed miraculous, I still had a hard time seeing that a true connection was possible at the very core of the onion.  I think it's best for us to separate completely... . yesterday.  Regardless of what we will call it and what it will become, we need to physically be away from one another. This opposes my H's beliefs completely. He thinks (knows) it was a mistake to separate at all in the first place and believes that we failed because we gave each other too much space. Oh and that this is all because of me and my choice. He is grasping and I am suffocating.   How do you work with that?  And how do you attempt to do ANYTHING at all when words do not equal actions and what is said one minute is different from what actually happens? Etc. Etc. Etc. Have you tried a therapeutic separation?  How did it work out for you?

[Want2know]

I just need a break, "time", as you said, to focus on myself. Mediation, separation assuming we are both in therapy really is a form of therapeutic separation, don't you think?

Have you been living in the same house during this time?  To me, that seems like it would be hard to feel you have some peace.  TS does allow for living separately during that time, with a variety of options.  As I see it, if you were to pursue it, it at least is showing him that you are willing to continue with working through the details, which is something he seems to want.  At the same time, it would give you some space to be clear on how to best handle the situation, even if it does result in divorce.

I believe your T would have more information on how to pursue TS, and is why I suggested running it by them to see if it is worthy of a try.  I have not tried it - I was not married to my ex and we didn't have children.  Our finances were not entangled, and it was my house we lived in, so he just moved out.  We had a simpler situation than yours.

[Landslide2014]

Thanks want2know. Your post led me to a place that I really did not want to consider and I did bring it up with my T today. My greatest anxiety right now is the pressure I have allowed myself to feel when I am around my H. Not only is H's obsessive behavior uncomfortable to me, but I also need to recover on my own and really explore how it will be without him.

I realize that my h has always paid attention to me.  The attention was both negative and positive. I accepted the treatment I received, regardless, like a drug I was addicted to. It's time to withdraw and face whatever it is I am supposed to. My T pointed out today that I am fogged by my feelings of disappointment and being let down and by my own anger.  That causes me to doubt and question my certainty. Clearly, my H is very clever and knows how to  manipulate me and when I am fogged I surrender my worth to his emotionally crafted control. Not good.

My H is intent on staying in the marriage right now and being in my space.  The focus all points to how he/we can fix the marriage. I do not see any evidence of reflection of self. Unless that becomes apparent, I see zero chance for us. I am intent on separating. Perhaps a TS will be a way to expedite my needs and offer hope towards his.  And while I am 100% certain that it cannot continue like this, I really do not know what the future holds. I am going to bring it up to him.  I will also call the divorce mediator/counselor to see if this is something they are able to oversee. If H does not agree, I must carry this to the legal level and be done.

[Want2know]

Perhaps a TS will be a way to expedite my needs and offer hope towards his.  And while I am 100% certain that it cannot continue like this, I really do not know what the future holds. I am going to bring it up to him.  I will also call the divorce mediator/counselor to see if this is something they are able to oversee. If H does not agree, I must carry this to the legal level and be done.

I think this is a solid plan, and am glad you are considering it.  Keep us posted!   

[Landslide2014]

Moving right along. I had a great session with my T last night. She immediately noticed I was in a fog and we discovered that anger and rage is what put me there. And then I suppressed it. I laid out my optimism to her about a TS. She agreed that it was a good plan because it would allow us to expedite our separation more quickly and safely. I made a date with my H so we can talk and I can explain to him that I had a slight change of perspective and perhaps we can try this instead of going into immediate legal separation. It was difficult to talk to him as he began before I even got any words out with insults and criticisms and judgments. Then it was difficult for me not to defend myself. We started over which I thought was a good idea. Eventually he said he would have to think about it after researching it on the Internet, seeing his T tonight and seeing his new T on Monday. One of his tactics is to avoid and not commit and I am left waiting in the wings only to be blamed for the situation as it is. After an unfulfilling conversation which may or may not have made an impact, he walked ahead and I had little clarity. I went in the house which was occupied by my mother-in-law and my children and shortly said to him "I just want to take the situation and create the most positive outcome possible". He responded with "So do I". I felt a bit of relief. Within 10 minutes time, I said good night to everybody as I was on my way out to a meeting. Dinner had been prepared and ready to be eaten. It was a joint contribution. And I had arranged for my s7 to be cared for as I knew my H was also going to his T tonight. My H came up in a rage, pointing his finger in my face and yelling right outside my d14 and d17's door "just get the hell out of here.  You're the reason why everybody is so uptight around here.  Just go."  He was loud and everybody heard him. He was also yelling at my daughters to come down "NOW" for dinner. It's really difficult for me to reason with unreasonable behavior. I feel like I'm hanging by a noose. Damned if I do damned if I don't. I know that the only rational answer for me is to be patient and hope that the answer will reveal itself in time. Though I'm anxious to take action now. I've been in limbo for so long and my environment home is so toxic. My H fails to see it, and my heart is breaking on behalf of my children. :'(