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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Is it possible to stay friends?  (Read 12145 times)
changingme
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« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2014, 12:29:14 PM »

 Because "friendship" with a BPDex - from their perspective - means "You keep giving me everything you always have, and I'm free to be as present in or absent from your life as suits me at any given time, with no rules, no accountability, and no matter what I do, you've already given me permission".

 

This is PERFECTLY stated. I am printing this out and hanging it up to read everyday to remind me NEVER to go down the friendship path again.  Friendship can "work" in the sense of getting along, learning how to communicate better and be supportive of one another but it came at the expense of my own happiness.  I tend to find myself on that waiting mode and realizing, as this quote says, that ex just keeps taking and taking whatever can be sucked dry from me with no rhyme or reason and yes with no rules.  There is still a push/pull factor involved in the friendship which can make you quickly miserable.  I still see his "recycle" even if it is not a physical one. 
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« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2014, 01:48:35 PM »

Being friends has also offered itself as an option to us.  He often says he can't lose me and wants to just be friends.  But I ask myself whether any of my other friends have ever hurt me as deeply as he has?  And there it is, the answer is categorically, no! So I stay away and don't respond to his messages.  Or I respond, explaining why it can never be and there is silence for a while.  He hasn't written for a while now and I'm hopeful that he has given up... .

To add to this, if you wouldn't want to be friends with someone because of the way they treated you, why in the world would their behavior be acceptable in a romantic partner? I think it warrants taking a long, hard look at what your notion of love entails.  :)oes it entail "fighting for it" and "it not being easy" and "you can't choose who you love"?  Or is it grounded in things like mutual respect, affection, and fidelity? I'll be the first to admit that with my BPDex it was the first set of principals.

The answer is that it isn't acceptable.  Why do we fall in love with a person who ultimately hurts and abandons us?  I think it's because we are unaware until it's too late.

When I met him I was in a good strong place in my life, but still shaky when it came to relationships.  I suppose I wasn't really capable of being attracted to anyone too 'healthy'.  It was, sadly and ironically, still the best relationship I'd ever had though in many ways. 

In his sick way he did love me and I never felt so happy and wanted.  I miss him all the time and now I know that his behaviour was because of this illness and that I was the trigger, I stay away.  Also, if I went back I would lose my son, my family and my friends, all of whom have stood by me in my misery, and the self respect that I am starting to regain.  Actually I don't want to go back because I think I'm starting to value myself more.

I have taken a long hard look at what my notion of love is Octoberfest, and I conclude that I don't really know what love is.  What I do know is that in my 51 years of experiencing 'love' in its various guises it generally hurts, and sometimes a lot!  The only thing I can do now is step back out of the arena and take stock and try to understand because this last relationship was so painful and so shocking and so sad that there's no denying the mess I'm in any more. 

I found this wonderful quote from M Scott Peck which I'm sure some of you are familiar with,

“Life is difficult. This is a great truth, one of the greatest truths. It is a great truth because once we truly see this truth, we transcend it. Once we truly know that life is difficult-once we truly understand and accept it-then life is no longer difficult. Because once it is accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters.”

I think I figured out something, and it's helping me a lot... .

The only thing I can do now is go forward - there's no road behind me to go back on.  I take each day as a new beginning and just go forward because I know I can't go back.  And actually it's ok, I'm getting used to being on my own and starting to like myself and enjoy my own company.  Something has changed.

Wow, in full philosophical mode today folks  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Janey x

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goldylamont
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« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2014, 03:28:42 PM »

I found this wonderful quote from M Scott Peck which I'm sure some of you are familiar with,

“Life is difficult. This is a great truth, one of the greatest truths. It is a great truth because once we truly see this truth, we transcend it. Once we truly know that life is difficult-once we truly understand and accept it-then life is no longer difficult. Because once it is accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters.”

I think I figured out something, and it's helping me a lot... .

The only thing I can do now is go forward - there's no road behind me to go back on.  I take each day as a new beginning and just go forward because I know I can't go back.  And actually it's ok, I'm getting used to being on my own and starting to like myself and enjoy my own company.  Something has changed.

Wow, in full philosophical mode today folks  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Janey x

thank you for sharing this quote Janey. just what i needed to hear, made my day!
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Jason886

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« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2014, 05:58:15 AM »

I ended my friendship with my BPD after agonizing whether or not to do it. Her negative behavior never stopped and it was doing my head in. I realized that it was never going to stop so in the end I ended it.

I think that staying friends will be extremely difficult as you are unlikely to fully heal while they are still in your life.
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free-n-clear
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« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2014, 06:28:48 AM »

you are unlikely to fully heal while they are still in your life.

   You're right, Jason886. A BPDex is no better at being a friend than they were at being a partner. Once you've become close enough to trigger their fear of abandonment, you'll always be a trigger for them and they'll continue to hurt you. Best to learn from the experience and move on.  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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DiamondSW
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« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2014, 07:31:13 AM »

No, It's impossible.  Certainly in a healthy way.

To be 'friends' with a BPD ex, I think a person really has no grounding on what a true 'friend' is.

My ex wanted to continue to be my friend, right until her words and actions put me in hospital.  8mths NC later, I have a new home, work is going well and I have a new gf who is gorgeous. 

Being 'friends' with my BPDexgf would put at risk all that I have worked so hard for.  My life wasn't worth a 10p text to her.  So being in her life isn't worth a jot to me either... .   Smiling (click to insert in post)  she has a rubbish life anyway, i'm not missing anything! 
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patientandclear
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« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2014, 10:28:26 AM »

I suppose "staying friends" with a BPD, equals "staying"... .

as such I might have to move to the staying boards 

I came to realise that even though we are now living separatedly, having our own lives (technically), avoiding sexual intercourse, meeting eachother on a "limited" base, etc. we are still having a r/s on an emotional level, and it's still based on HIS needs... . although there are "benefits" for me too

but this way it works for me: having defined this as a friendship helps enormously to set boundaries and limits the expectations of "more" , both to him as to me

and we are both happier: me because I can still be there hor him, and he is more thankful and feels less lonely, and I am the only female friend his has, which is a completely different dynamic than "meeting with the guys"

allthough he hangs around with them he is too disordered to really connect to them, and he doesn't feel safe with them, sometimes for no reason, sometimes because they truly can't be trusted, as they take advantage of him or bully him :-(

I suppose I became some kind of personal coach to him, a resting area where he can relax a little bit... .

Triss, I did this.  I had a long-running "I'm being friends with my ex wBPD" series of threads on here & Staying in 2012-2013.

I thought pretty much what you thought -- it seemed good, worthwhile, to us both.  I felt it was as close as he could get to a woman & not lose his ___.  I thought he was taking a time out from dating and this was his primary r/ship, but because of childhood sex abuse and other factors, he really needed me to give him a ton of space.  I did.  I thought we would build trust ... .

What I hadn't counted on was (i) this deeper intimacy could still trigger the crap out of him, and (ii) he really was using me till he had another plan.  He wasn't developing a sense of obligation or commitment to me, that would have been appropriate given the depth of where we went to together & the degree of emotional risk I was taking by being close to him again after he'd betrayed promises to me and hurt me so badly.

The details are spelled out in threads from last year, but basically, when we were very close, deepening our connection, figuring out how to navigate hurt & disappointment, introducing each other to family ... . all the things that you might thing suggest a real commitment to one another -- he suddenly left town.  I hung in and was very supportive, despite how confused I was.  Then he decided to move to another city.  When I expressed a tiny bit of hurt and questioning about why he would just toss away what he had, including us, for new people, places and things, he stopped speaking to me for almost 3 months.  Then we made up and got much closer, again, visited ... . then he started seeing someone else and suddenly everything was different again.  No texts, I wasn't his primary reference point.  No explanation, no sense that he even registered that it was a significant change.  Nor was he honest with me about the new r/ship.  When I finally asked about the changes, he was incredibly defensive and denied that anything important had shifted, and cut off communication again.

Point being: it can feel like you SHOULD be developing a r/ship of growing confidence & trust here, in this safe space of friendship, something more real and lasting.  Except that it is still just there for them to use until they don't feel like it.  Then it changes.  And you cannot achieve any accountability and the r/ship will not stay true ... . it will come and go as their needs shift.

In the end it wasn't compatible with any concept I have of integrity between myself and someone I love.  Not only in my own defense but in defense of what had been so good with us, I needed to stop participating in what was almost a consumer relationship, where he bought & ate my wares when he felt like it.

It's hard to completely let go.  The friendship path seemed like a viable alternative to completely severing what had felt like such an important and wonderful connection.  But in the end, it was another way to be betrayed.  At least that was my experience.

The poster on BPDF who has said the wisest things I've read about maintaining a post-r/ship dynamic with someone wBPD is Conundrum.  You might read his posts.  He stresses that you simply cannot expect to have any possessory interest in someone wBPD.  Your sense that things are special with you, and that that should generate some sense of loyalty and constancy, will be disappointed.  You can only allow them to come & go, and enjoy the connection when they are connected.  If you find that worthwhile, and go in completely clear-eyed about how they will not "wake up" and realize how special what you have is, etc., you might manage some kind of viable long term friendship.  But bear in mind that in that, they do and will play on how you WANT to be special, you want them to be true ... . that makes it really hard to have the emotional self-discipline to continue not to expect or desire that.

Eventually I started to be able to see my ex's techniques for keeping me hooked.  It was like applying heat to lemon juice invisible ink.  That was the day the techniques he used stopped working on me.  Because I saw that the words of specialness were standing side by side with a reality that wasn't compatible with the words -- he didn't know I knew about the hidden facts, but I did, and all of a sudden the wonderful words were so empty.  Having seen that, I might have been able to carry on more clear-eyed and prudent, but at the same time, seeing the unvarnished truth about the "specialness" or lack thereof also sort of stripped out my whole motivation for doing this very challenging, risky, complicated emotional dance.  I finally felt used and manipulated.  It sucks to feel that about someone to whom you have given more and more.  The answer is not to give yet more.

I've adjusted what I give him to what he gives me.  That's always been my rule, I just am more clear now about what it is that he gives me, and it isn't all that much.  He is still trying to pull me in.  He will continue to use me to the extent I allow it.

I don't shut him out entirely, I convey warmth and affection for him, but I cannot allow the impression of great closeness any more.  It's a trick my mind wants to play on me and I have to guard against it in order to not let the connection to this person destroy my sense of value and meaning over and over again.

Hope this cautionary tale is of some use.
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janey62
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« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2014, 10:52:49 AM »

Are we still on the 'can we stay friends' thread?

Then I would say again, no!  And if you think you can then I would examine your motives most carefully and honestly.

Lets be clear about this... . we became the thing which triggered them over and over until any semblance of the former relationship was battered beyond recognition.  I don't know about you guys but I almost went mad trying to understand how this person could have professed to 'love' me and then behave in such bizarre and cruel ways?

If by staying friends you are trying to 'help' them then think again... . It's a bit like picking up frogs from out of the road to stop them getting run over.  When you physically pick up a frog in your hand you burn it!  Imagine being touched by a large hot iron and carried by it!  You're trying to help but in fact inflicting excruciating pain on your intended helpee.  

Really all you're doing is prolonging the agony - the agony of letting go and getting over it and letting them get on with their sorry lives.  I remember early on in my relationship with uBPDbf consulting the Iching online.  I asked whether our r/s would work and it said, very clearly, that I should enjoy what I had now today because ultimately I could never hope to have this magnetic person for any length of time.  It advised me to proceed with caution, an online Iching!  It was like having a tiger by the tail and hanging on for dear life but enjoying the ride and exhilaration.  I knew I was in danger and I still would be if we were 'just friends'.

Part of the issue is us.  We would be better served by letting go, detaching completely from having any kind of links with our ex and trying to figure out why we were there in the first place.

Janey  

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free-n-clear
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« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2014, 11:11:56 AM »

I had a long-running "I'm being friends with my ex wBPD" series of threads... .

Are we still on the 'can we stay friends' thread?

      The subject comes up so often it deserves its own board:

      [L7]  The Aftermath: Why Friendship with your BPDex should not even be Considered.

                                                                                                                                                       Smiling (click to insert in post)  
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Take2
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« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2014, 11:54:01 AM »

Lets be clear about this... . we became the thing which triggered them over and over until any semblance of the former relationship was battered beyond recognition.  I don't know about you guys but I almost went mad trying to understand how this person could have professed to 'love' me and then behave in such bizarre and cruel ways?

Part of the issue is us.  We would be better served by letting go, detaching completely from having any kind of links with our ex and trying to figure out why we were there in the first place.

Ugh... . having a rough day because I am in the process of still going mad trying to understand it... . which is flat out ridiculous when I DO understand what is going on... .   I just can't stop myself from being hurt by it... . and begging for more... .

But to answer the question posed... . sadly, at least in my experience, no it does not appear possible to remain friends... .    :'(
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AchingHeart

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« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2014, 12:09:01 PM »

I don't think a friendly relationship is even possible to maintain with an exBPDgf/bf.

I've been trying to keep a friendship with her ever since we broke up (a month ago), we just don't have the same definition of a friendship. I suppose I could have anticipated this because I've been able to see how she behaved with her friends. It always had to be about her, how she felt, what she wanted to do, etc... . I've read about maintaining a friendship for quite some weeks now. I'm the stubborn kind, I want to experience it myself and get to my own conclusion. I should have spared myself this one though.

In our "friendship" everything is so one sided, everything is about her, about her needs, about her feelings, about her emotions, about what she wants or doesn't want to do. She's calling or texting only when her day is going horribly wrong and she has nobody else to talk to. If I ever called and shared something with her she always would cut it short. Five minutes tops is what she'd give me. Then I'd get the "Ok, let me go back to... . "

I can sense she still likes the attention and likes to have me on standby or as an option if she ever needs it. The last couple of times we met I've been distancing myself as much as I possibly could. I can sense that somehow bothers her. She'd rather still have me asking to give us another chance. She'd rather still have me deeply hurting about our relationship.

No, it's not possible to maintain a friendship in my own experience.

As much as it pains me, this is the healthiest decision I can take for myself.

Since last night and after sharing my story here, I've decided to go NC.

I know it is going to be hard but again it just seems to be the best decision I can take for myself.
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BorisAcusio
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« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2014, 12:24:39 PM »

double post
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BorisAcusio
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« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2014, 12:28:20 PM »

AchingHeart,

Wow, that is exactly what I experienced.

From the time since we broke up, she called me every day to cry on my shoulder, vent her emotional frustration and problems. One or two hour on the phone and it was always(!) about her and her problems.

Meanwhile she was cruel to me, made emasculating and hurtful comments about my apperance, financial situation, even my intelligence and no matter how hard I tried, didn't show any respect, gratitude and completely lacked empathy towards me.

I was hurt badly. Spent the last two months in FOG just to be used as an emotional tampoo, ego booster until she finds somebody else. She literally kept me hooked until the last minute, with false hope and little baits and would've countinued for months.


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zenwexler
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« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2014, 01:17:54 PM »

No on can be your other half. No one can complete you - a healthy relationship involves two folks who are whole and compliment rather than complete. If we look to someone to complete then we are seeking love out of need. The r/s starts on shakey ground with an even shakier attachment.

What is your definition of friendship? Think of your best friend - right a list of important qualities that keep you both in the friendship.

wow, that's so true. My ex just told me that her new bf is amazing. Super chill, exactly what she needs and he balances out her nerves. Which of course hurt, because it implied I wasn't what she needed.
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zenwexler
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« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2014, 01:19:56 PM »

I don't think a friendly relationship is even possible to maintain with an exBPDgf/bf.

I've been trying to keep a friendship with her ever since we broke up (a month ago), we just don't have the same definition of a friendship. I suppose I could have anticipated this because I've been able to see how she behaved with her friends. It always had to be about her, how she felt, what she wanted to do, etc... . I've read about maintaining a friendship for quite some weeks now. I'm the stubborn kind, I want to experience it myself and get to my own conclusion. I should have spared myself this one though.

In our "friendship" everything is so one sided, everything is about her, about her needs, about her feelings, about her emotions, about what she wants or doesn't want to do. She's calling or texting only when her day is going horribly wrong and she has nobody else to talk to. If I ever called and shared something with her she always would cut it short. Five minutes tops is what she'd give me. Then I'd get the "Ok, let me go back to... . "

I can sense she still likes the attention and likes to have me on standby or as an option if she ever needs it. The last couple of times we met I've been distancing myself as much as I possibly could. I can sense that somehow bothers her. She'd rather still have me asking to give us another chance. She'd rather still have me deeply hurting about our relationship.

No, it's not possible to maintain a friendship in my own experience.

As much as it pains me, this is the healthiest decision I can take for myself.

Since last night and after sharing my story here, I've decided to go NC.

I know it is going to be hard but again it just seems to be the best decision I can take for myself.

i'm also experiencing this and

"From the time since we broke up, she called me every day to cry on my shoulder, vent her emotional frustration and problems. One or two hour on the phone and it was always(!) about her and her problems.

Meanwhile she was cruel to me, made emasculating and hurtful comments about my apperance, financial situation, even my intelligence and no matter how hard I tried, didn't show any respect, gratitude and completely lacked empathy towards me.

I was hurt badly. Spent the last two months in FOG just to be used as an emotional tampoo, ego booster until she finds somebody else. She literally kept me hooked until the last minute, with false hope and little baits and would've countinued for months."

It's so scary that we all have such similar experiences. Are all these girls destined to fail no matter who they date?
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« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2014, 02:38:42 AM »

People (with BPD or not) can only walk all over you if you lie down on the floor!

Perhaps we should all concentrate on this and also on trying to figure out why we found ourselves lying down on the floor... .
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« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2014, 06:22:53 AM »

People (with BPD or not) can only walk all over you if you lie down on the floor!

Perhaps we should all concentrate on this and also on trying to figure out why we found ourselves lying down on the floor... .

could be several reasons. off the top of my head:

1) because someone suffers low self esteem, dependency issues or previous trauma

2) because lying on the floor is relaxing. because you do this with other friends who lay next to you and you can share stories. so you lay there not expecting to get stomped on by muddy boots out of the blue Smiling (click to insert in post)

3) because you were told to lie on the floor so that you could get a special massage for being such a wonderful person, and then scalding water gets poured on you   

4) because someone is too afraid to admit how terribly abusive this person truly is, either in pure shock or denial

5) because it's my damn house and i can choose to lie whenever and however i like and i already locked crazy outside. can't stop crazy from banging on the door but i can turn up the radio and do a floor-shimmy or simply relax until the sound is less annoying

... . some combination of the above? maybe other reasons?
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« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2014, 06:49:30 AM »

I suppose "staying friends" with a BPD, equals "staying"... .

as such I might have to move to the staying boards  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I came to realise that even though we are now living separatedly, having our own lives (technically), avoiding sexual intercourse, meeting eachother on a "limited" base, etc. we are still having a r/s on an emotional level, and it's still based on HIS needs... . although there are "benefits" for me too

but this way it works for me: having defined this as a friendship helps enormously to set boundaries and limits the expectations of "more" , both to him as to me

and we are both happier: me because I can still be there hor him, and he is more thankful and feels less lonely, and I am the only female friend his has, which is a completely different dynamic than "meeting with the guys"

allthough he hangs around with them he is too disordered to really connect to them, and he doesn't feel safe with them, sometimes for no reason, sometimes because they truly can't be trusted, as they take advantage of him or bully him :-(

I suppose I became some kind of personal coach to him, a resting area where he can relax a little bit... .

triss i think you may be the only person on the thread who is still in the friend-stage of separation. i spent some time there too and actually i don't regret it as i was doing my best, going out with others, dating and such. this didn't stop the pain or cycling depressions but this would have happened in either case. in hindsight, my reason for staying friends was because i needed to know for myself beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was nothing i could do, no way of me being that was creating the drama. so i tried my best to act accordingly.

there's a couple of things you mention that i think you should consider. you mention that you've both agreed to avoid sexual intercourse--i don't think this is something you should count on at all from your ex. the nature of the disorder is that he will seek out other people at his whim, and convincingly lie to you about it. it may be wise to consider this so when/if you realize this was going on all along you are a bit more prepared. pwBPD are specialists at making several people simultaneously feel that they are the most special person 'closest' to them.

it's also possible that his other friends may see you in the same light that you see them. with your ex as the center point he may be distorting the reality of who you are to them and vice versa. it's likely there is someone else in his life right now, that feels like they are that special coach to him just like you do, who because of his words feels that he doesn't feel safe around you, because you take advantage of him and you bully him. when you come to the realization that in actuality you are no more important than the other people he may slander, it can be upsetting.

if you can come to terms with the possibility of him being with another person (soon if not now), and not holding onto the idea that you are actually as special as he portrays things to you, then you may be able to continue the r/s as it is. it worries me though from all our other experiences that this does mean something to you though. you have to get these answers for yourself as we all have, i just wanted to open your awareness up to these likely outcomes.
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« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2014, 09:42:02 AM »

It's so scary that we all have such similar experiences. Are all these girls destined to fail no matter who they date?

Yes, the similarities are stunning. The creepiest is when we find out they say the same things word for word.

Yes, their future relationships are essentially doomed. Even though they might claim everything is perfect in their new relationships it is just a matter of time before they go through the whole cycle again. Selfishly, and now that I'm still hurting about this relationship, that's where I find some comfort. Although she may be happy with someone now, she'll be miserable again, and happy again, and miserable, until someday she decides (if she ever does) to go through therapy.
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« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2014, 12:15:27 PM »



Yes, the similarities are stunning. The creepiest is when we find out they say the same things word for word.

Yes, their future relationships are essentially doomed. Even though they might claim everything is perfect in their new relationships it is just a matter of time before they go through the whole cycle again. Selfishly, and now that I'm still hurting about this relationship, that's where I find some comfort. Although she may be happy with someone now, she'll be miserable again, and happy again, and miserable, until someday she decides (if she ever does) to go through therapy.[/quote]
I agree so much. My gf tries and tells me how happy and great her new bf is, how he "balances her out" And I'm thinking there is no way that is true. Because truly happy people tend to just live their lives and not flaunt their relationship or text there ex at all! They would just live their life happily. It's sad for them. But you're right. Selfishly I take comfort in knowing that her relationship is probably just as sour and dysfunctional as all of hers. At first I thought I was replaces by a big strong "alpha male" She tells me he's that. laid back guy from Hawaii. Now I realized that he's  probably a nice guy, aka, she's chewing him up and spitting him out.

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« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2014, 12:28:16 PM »

I also have to assume that if she's not being very nice to me now in the present moment, then she can't be acting all too nice to her current bf either.
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« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2014, 03:09:20 AM »

My gf tries and tells me how happy and great her new bf is, how he "balances her out"... .

it's important to remember that after the breakup our exes may still be focused on punishing us for perceived transgressions. so this is a ripe time for them to bring up any insecurities you may have had about the r/s or about yourself. your ex knows it was very important for you to feel like you were a good influence in her life, so her saying her new bf 'balances her out' is passive-aggressiveness to punish you apparently for not doing a good job of this.

we should also realize that just as many have found that their exes use the same lines to hook the next replacement--it's likely they use the same lines to punish the ex. it's possible she told the guy before you zenwexler, in a passive-aggressive way when they were 'friends' that you were the one who balanced her out. seeing it in this light helps for us to take these comments meant to hurt us less personally, since a lot of people have heard it already 

my ex just walked into the room one time and started gabbing about how great her bf was, i knew what she was up to so i didn't react. she'd mention how good he was at X. i'd say "ok". she'd continue about how happy he made her feel. "ok". on and on she went not getting the reaction she wanted out of me. finally she pulled the big guns and started telling me how she knew her new r/s was going to work out because he was so trustworthy and she knew they were developing their r/s with "trust". and she knew that trust was the biggest issue for me in our r/s... . so when i finally replied "really? well, i don't give a damn", this gave her an excuse to blow up. mission accomplished. (btw she had known him for 2 weeks at this point and broke up with him only 4 months later  Smiling (click to insert in post) )
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« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2014, 05:29:58 AM »

triss i think you may be the only person on the thread who is still in the friend-stage of separation.  yes, seems so, at least in this topic, and it is quite demotivating because it keeps me wondering if I see this all wrong, but until now, I try to relie on my intuition, which says that for now, it's ok... .

there's a couple of things you mention that i think you should consider. you mention that you've both agreed to avoid sexual intercourse--I meant not having sex with eachother... as we are supposed to be friends not lovers! I don't care if he has sex with other persons, allthough I don't think he actually has someone new yet

pwBPD are specialists at making several people simultaneously feel that they are the most special person 'closest' to them. agree, I'm aware of that

it's also possible that his other friends may see you in the same light that you see them. with your ex as the center point he may be distorting the reality of who you are to them and vice versa... . when you come to the realization that in actuality you are no more important than the other people he may slander, it can be upsetting. I know BP's have a slightly abusive way on how they cope with their "friends" , he actually told me that several times himself, so I am not having any illusions here   

still I know I am important to him, both his mother and some of his friends have "thanked" me for being there for him, as such putting slightly more pressure on my shoulders then I really like , but I must admit it's nice to know that at least I am of some help and support for his mum too  

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« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2014, 12:46:08 PM »

goldylamont, you're so right. When we were dating she would always go back and forth between vilanizing her exes or talking about great things they did or how funny they were. She would always talk about her exes. It would always make me feel like ___. I always think I wonder if she talks about me to him. Like if she says how much I sucked or how great I was. She's not one to ever openly express love or affectionate. And it would kill her to ever pay me a compliment. One day I went to work and everyone loved my sweatshirt. I came over to her house and told her and she was like uhhh, it's not that nice of a sweatshirt.  Only very rarely would she be sweet or complimentry. And if I ever tried to bait it, (I have needs too, it would be nice to feel wanted and loved) she would freak out and be like I hate when you try and get me to say that I miss you or love you. She was very up and down. One minute she would want me to kiss her all the time and be all over her. The next, I would try and give her a casual kiss and she would shriek back like I'm a disgusting monster. It would really really hurt me. I kind of had the epiphany, she would tell me I need to be kinder and more loving, but when I was she would either want more more more and more, or she would not be receptive. She trained me not to be lovey dovey then got mad when I wasn't. I realized that whenever I tried to get cute and nice it would push her away, unless she had a fleeting moment of really wanting me to shower her with love. It seems like the more distant I am, the more she comes to me.  But whenever I take a few steps forward shes like uhhh, we're just friends, or says something passive aggressively.

I guess she truly is lost, I guess she truly is destined to be unhappy no matter who she ends up with.
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« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2014, 02:43:11 PM »

I was in denial about possibly being friends with my exBPD.  Of course, she said "she wanted me in her life", and "wanted to be a good friend".  But if you think it is hard to be friends with a normal ex, imagine an exBPD.  These individuals will not be good friends for the same reasons that don't make good romantic partners.

Reality is setting in with me as I become intellectual about her condition and her behaviors... . it's also been confirmed with her cold behavior since then.
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« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2014, 02:57:34 PM »

John - I believe my ex wanted to remain "friends" to alleviate guilt and shame.  If I was still his "friend" then he wasn't such a bad guy, right?  On my end I see now it was because I still longed for him and wanted to maintain contact and have him in my life.  In retrospect there really wasn't a reciprocal friendship there.  I was who he turned to when he needed to borrow a great deal of money (he did repay me) and when he was lonely or having some other kind of melt down and needed someone to listen and care for him.  I honestly cannot remember one instance in our "friendship" where I got any support, empathy, etc.  However there were many instances where the BPD behaviors continued and I continued to get hurt... . sometimes deeply. 

This time I around I told him we cannot be friends.  I have to stop the bleeding.
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« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2014, 02:58:13 PM »

I lacked common sense about whether or not my ex would be a good romantic partner.  I could not see her, me or our relationship for what it really was.  As the relationship crumbled, I continued to lack common sense as to whether or not she could be a good friend.  With the benefit of hindsight it is all pretty clear now.  Mind you that hindsight has the benefit of about a year and a half of very limited contact!  As I reflect on it all, I think the desire to "keep her in my life" was mostly the avoidance of the pain of final separation.  
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« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2014, 03:53:42 PM »

For me, personally, I have realized that the best thing I can do for myself and for my exbf is not to try to maintain a r/s with him. The most important thing is that it's the best for MYSELF. But also, I trigger him too much and always will, and he deserves the opportunity to go try to find some measure of peace and mental well-being.

We will maybe be people who occasionally (every few years) check in to make sure the other is alive and OK. Maybe. I don't know what the future holds. And I don't feel obligated to check in on him. But that is as far as any r/s between us can ever healthily go.
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« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2014, 05:07:16 PM »

John - I believe my ex wanted to remain "friends" to alleviate guilt and shame.  If I was still his "friend" then he wasn't such a bad guy, right?  

exactly what I recognise in my ex!

and it's almost touching how he's doing his best now to show he can be a "better version of himself", he's really trying to proove something here I guess  Smiling (click to insert in post)

now is my question: isn't this a good thing ? if this feeling of guilt (combined with his relief of not completely having lost "us" is the motivation he needs to do some positive things and to keep on going, then why not ? we all know pwBPD have not much internal motivation anyway... .

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« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2014, 03:36:09 AM »

The answer to your question is... . yes, you CAN stay friends with them.

If you do, they will do nothing short of completely ruining your life.

Yes, I had a conversation with her best 'friend' ( male of course ) he is NPD. I could see how he too was a victim of her disorder. She idealised/devalued him constantly. Ruined any RS he made, even punched a girl who was getting too close to him.

'Friends' ?

They wear out people around them or have showy attachments. The friends I thought she had weren't, other people thought my friends were hers. When I looked honestly at her life and talked to a couple o people I had thought were her friends it was shocking, they had hardly had a conversation with her.

Looking at my ability to not let go when I saw her small betrayals is something I've had to look at.

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