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Author Topic: Is it possible to stay friends?  (Read 12149 times)
JohnThorn
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« on: April 14, 2014, 04:17:13 PM »

Has anyone managed to maintain a relatively healthy friendship with their BPD ex after the breakup was over. One that did not lead to sex or romance.

Today is a very important anniversary in my BPD ex's life. I so badly want to reach out and let her know I'm here for her. I have been considering doing it all day but I want to make sure my motive is clean. I do care about her. So much. For so many years. And to just walk out because the relationship didn't work doesn't make much sense to me even tho I feel she has the potential to really put me in the ground. Why not just be friends? Can it be done?

Anyone know?

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SWLSR
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2014, 04:49:37 PM »

Every situation is different and i guess it is possible.  but if u ask me on the surface i would say no u can't.  these people r mo better at being friends than they r at relationships.  if i were u i would not try it.

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winston72
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2014, 05:53:56 PM »

Hey JohnThorn... . processing the loss of this relationship is really painful and hard.  Perhaps that is the priority right now. 

Having read some of your other posts, would you say that you currently have a healthy friendship with her that you would like to maintain?  It is really awful to think of losing someone with whom you have such a deep history.  Really awful, and to those of us who have experienced it (and are still experiencing it), it seems like such a needless waste.  But, it is also a needless effort to continue injuring yourself by relating to someone who "has the potential to put you in the ground."  JT, this is not a characteristic of even a "relatively" healthy relationship.

JT, what are some of the feelings that drive you to want to continue to live with such risk and pain?  In my case, I deeply feared the sense of emptiness that would result from losing my ex.  I really, really wanted her and I did not want to face life without that sense of desire.  And, JT, as the relationship began to disintegrate, I started with a T because I was having self destructive thoughts... . all this is to say that you circumstances resonate with me.  I do not ask these questions blindly... . they count and they start to lead to pathways forward.

What is it that feels so comfortable to you about relating to someone who hurts you so terribly?  What are you seeking?  What are you avoiding?  What are you really feeling now?  Right now? 
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JohnThorn
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2014, 07:07:52 PM »

Hey JohnThorn... . processing the loss of this relationship is really painful and hard.  Perhaps that is the priority right now. 

Having read some of your other posts, would you say that you currently have a healthy friendship with her that you would like to maintain?  It is really awful to think of losing someone with whom you have such a deep history.  Really awful, and to those of us who have experienced it (and are still experiencing it), it seems like such a needless waste.  But, it is also a needless effort to continue injuring yourself by relating to someone who "has the potential to put you in the ground."  JT, this is not a characteristic of even a "relatively" healthy relationship.

JT, what are some of the feelings that drive you to want to continue to live with such risk and pain?  In my case, I deeply feared the sense of emptiness that would result from losing my ex.  I really, really wanted her and I did not want to face life without that sense of desire.  And, JT, as the relationship began to disintegrate, I started with a T because I was having self destructive thoughts... . all this is to say that you circumstances resonate with me.  I do not ask these questions blindly... . they count and they start to lead to pathways forward.

What is it that feels so comfortable to you about relating to someone who hurts you so terribly?  What are you seeking?  What are you avoiding?  What are you really feeling now?  Right now? 

Thank you for this

You ever look at someone, and no matter what they've done to you, no matter what your feelings for them (based on circumstance and past history) are... . no matter what, you always come back to the love you had for them when you first met?

I met my BPD ex almost 8 years ago.  I was 24.  She was 18.  The way I see it, we were kids.  But the moment I saw her (literally the very first moment)... . I felt like I knew her all my life.  I felt like she was my "other half"... . I fell in love with her in a way that never happened to me before or since.  I can't tell you what it was.  There's something about her eyes, its sensitivity... . but more than that, her face and her aura feel like home base.  I don't feel anchored without her in my life.  I went many years without talking to her.  Long before she was my "ex"... . I cut ties with her many years ago after a brief romantic stint that didn't qualify her as my ex.  I suffered then, but I moved on.  THIS TIME... . I was really with her, and we were very serious.  And I find it unbearable to say goodbye a second and final time.  I don't believe either one of us really preferred being out of the other's life.  I do believe while she has Borderline, and while she's a selfish, delusional person, I still believe she has the capacity to really love.  But I don't believe she has the capacity to be stably good to those she loves.  This is why, maybe only a friendship would do.  I fear without her in my life I will walk around until my dying day with this gigantic hole in my being. 

I think the thing that makes BPD so hard to remove yourself from is two-fold:

I think the people that stand by them are very sensitive to the needs of others, and likely insecure.

And I think there is much about the BPD person that is easy to fall in love with.

However, I cannot for the life of me understand why I was so taken by this girl so fast.  It is very unnatural for me, and it never happened ever again or since.  It was like I felt a spiritual connection never again to be felt.

I don't want to say goodbye :'(
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winston72
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2014, 08:00:23 PM »

Hey JT... . very wonderfully expressed.  My heart goes out to you. 

You expressed many things that are true for me and, I think, for many others on this site.  Thank you.

The primary name for this site is not often referred to by those of us on the site.  It is called bpdfamily.com.  I have found this to be a helpful guiding principle.  It has helped me to see things clearly and pave the way for recovery.  I would like to point out a few "facts" that I hear when I read your posts.

She was/is a very special person to you.

You have a strong attraction to her and a deep affection for her.

You share many years of common history.

You had many wonderful times together.

She lied/lies to you about big things and little things.

She abandoned you emotionally.

She betrayed you sexually.

She contradicts herself on very important matters, and does not acknowledge it.

She says she loves you while having a sexual relationship with another man/she tells another man she loves you while having a sexual relationship with him.

She lacks compassion, empathy and warmth for you, or at least she cannot sustain it.  The hot/cold; on/off; push/pull way she relates to you is very disruptive, disorienting and painful.

Your emotional suffering as a result of all the above is of a level as to drive you to find relief in thoughts of your own death.

This is what I glean from reading your posts.  They are all true; they all exist in the same relationship; all the corresponding feelings exist within you.  Any of us want to affirm either the positive or the negative aspects to the exclusion of the others.  For me, the tendency is to affirm all of the good times, to assert they can be revived, to believe the painful things will fade and in so doing recapture my beloved and avoid the terror of the loss.  Or, I have phases when I declare her to be a manipulative liar, a faithless cheater who will never change and who should be avoided at all costs.  I would find comfort in one extreme or the other.  What I really needed to do, and eventually was able to do, was to hold all of these facts/truths in my head, to see her, me and our relationship as accurately as possible... . and then to allow myself to experience my genuine feelings about all of it. 

Common sense, which had very little power over me, would lead one to believe that continuing in a relationship that triggers suicidal feelings is not wise or constructive.  People are in relationships of varying types with loved ones with BPD.  You can walk through some of these on the other boards on the site.  Perhaps that is not the key question right now.  The immediate matter is what you need to do to restore wholeness to your own life. 

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Clearmind
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2014, 08:04:27 PM »

No on can be your other half. No one can complete you - a healthy relationship involves two folks who are whole and compliment rather than complete. If we look to someone to complete then we are seeking love out of need. The r/s starts on shakey ground with an even shakier attachment.

What is your definition of friendship? Think of your best friend - right a list of important qualities that keep you both in the friendship.
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Changingman
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« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2014, 01:52:58 AM »

No John,

YOU can't, you have real feelings for her and these will/have been turned toxic by BPDx.

SHE can't , BPD is love in its most toxic form. Love as hate, love as hurt, love as abuse, a dark hole that will open up and swollow your sanity.

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just_confused

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« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2014, 06:38:51 AM »

Hi, John. I would like to strongly encourage you to not contact her. I am learning through therapy that they are masters of manipulation and very seductive and only focused on their needs. They will destroy another person to fullfil their empty spot in them, and have no regard, empathy or remorse for doing it. They are not capable of those feelings no matter how much they say they are or we wish they were. It is all a lie and way to manipulate you.  Reading your past posts, I am worried about you being strong enough to resist and getting sucked back in. It is hard enough to recover from what we are all going through right now, I don't want to see you start back over at square 1. I have been doing this weekly for the last 3 weeks, and each time, my energy and resistance gets weaker and I find myself spiraling down the rabbit hole, even doing things I wouldn't normally do (like beg him to work things out and declaring I will wait for him). Then I have a moment of clairity and realize that I am feeding him by doing these things. Filling the void for him while torturing myself. Believe me, with my break up being so relatively new (3 weeks) and still staying in contact via responding to him, the rabbit hole is getting longer and more tiresome. I know the compassionate heart in you wants to reach out and give her comfort, but she is not your responsibility. Her pain is not your responsibility. The person you need to focus on is you. I know it is hard, but you need to make youself well, so that when you do find that relationship that is good for you, you are not so damaged by her actions, you can't engage with the next person. Please, I am asking you not to contact her. Take care of yourself. Put your needs first. Put your healing first. Protect yourself. That is most important.

Just confused.
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Fool for Love
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2014, 08:23:48 AM »

John... . this is one of the best things I have read on this board... I have saved it to my phone and read it daily... I know the empty feeling that you have... I have been there ... still kinda am ... but I look at FACTS of what my exgf did ... . look at the facts of what she has done to you... read this below ... .

They were never into you to begin with

They are seriously mentally ill. Stop trying to make sense of her behavior. You can't. Stop trying to rationalize it. That's why it's called "mental illness" and a "Personality Disorder". For a borderline to admit they have BPD is to admit their perceptions of reality have been crazy their entire lives and that they are insane. It's life changing for a BPD to get better. It takes real commitment and you have to constantly be fighting your very perception of reality. Think about that and understand the magnitude of such a thing. It's daunting and is terrifying for someone with BPD. It's alright to take pity on their condition and empathize, but you need to accept it, pity it for a moment, then move on with your life. Forever. There's no going back. She's already violated every possible boundary a healthy person would even begin to accept with you. It's admirable that you still care for her, but take it from someone who knows. They are wasted tears and wasted emotions. Your BPD is not thinking about you at all. She never does. She has new supply now that is meeting her emotional needs at the moment. There is no guilt. No "sigh, I miss him" crap you see in the movies. They are out laughing and having a great time in the arms of another man. Believe it and accept it or you will drive yourself off the cliff emotionally and go crazy yourself. That cloudy thinking leaves you stuck in Oz and vulnerable to that sucking sound of a very good vacuum cleaner.

A lot of people cling on to a desperate hope that "there's a chance", because there have been VERY FEW success stories. BPD is never cured though. It's a life long condition, yes even with DBT. Borderlines can only learn to recognize suppress and control their behavioral urges. Not stop them. There is biological evidence to prove this and there is very intriguing data about how the amydala can be a key factor in the illness, on how there is differences between normal people and borderlines in this regard.

You have to stay NC to protect you from yourself. I know what would happen if she contacted you right now. You'd be on your guard, but you'd talk to her, feel the intoxication of her attention because it's feeding your addiction to her. She would seem normal, maybe even tell you "You're really the one. She needs you. Only you understand her... blah blah blah"... . but you have to understand, when you're dealing with a borderline, it's never about you. Ever. "It's always about them."

Once that simple statement, "It's always about them" truly resonates within you and you accept it, you will never be over this relationship. It's taken me years to start to feel normal again after my relationship. I'm only telling you this because I empathize with where you are right now. How you feel. I've been there man, stuck in the deepest pit of despair over my heart ache and sense of insanity and injustice. It makes you question your very existence. It's as if who you thought you were was a lie, because of how easily discarded like used tissue they made you feel. It's a very real and very large ego hit. It destroys what's called your ideal self. The truth is they were a lie. Their entire lives are a lie. It was never a real relationship between the two of you. Not on any rational, sane, healthy level. It's not possible with a borderline.

You were abused. Badly. No amount of iron mental defenses a person has, it can quickly wither under the subtle manipulations of a borderline. They have been known to manipulate therapists using tactics like Projective Identification. It's toxic mentally to be around these people for sustained periods of time. Now that I've been out of Oz for awhile I've met women and dated them and immediately recognized the HUGE ridiculous red flags that borderlines exhibit early on in the relationship.

This is true for all borderlines. When you first meet them they are very engaging. They suck you in. Make you feel like home. Their attention is fixated on you, and only you. You feel wanted. What you think is the "chemistry" you've been looking for, is a death trap. You need to run away. Even when they mirror you, within the first or second date, they can't keep the BPD behaviors in check. Look for the subtle signs. How they make quick movements and will do loud things, because they want people to look at them. They always want attention. When I'd go to a bar with my ex, it was always about her from the second we walked in. She wanted people to look at her 24/7. She'd wear really tight outfits so her body was on full display. They want attention 24/7.

When they are mirroring you and sucking you in, remind yourself that there is a guy who really cares about her that is exactly like you. Being played. Manipulated. Used. Taken for granted. Once they smash your boundaries and you accept it, forget it. They have you and then you're in for a world of pain my friend. It never ends well with these people. They are a wrecking ball to all the lives they come in intimate contact with. You're never the only one seeing the BPD behavior and/or being a victim of it. Other people see it too. Their family knows. Deep down, unless they are crazy too. Borderlines stick out like sore thumbs to people who are rational with solid healthy boundaries in place. Healthy people avoid them like the plague.

You have a long journey ahead of you. I'd advise you to start strapping on your boots now, because you're going to go through boot camp. It's going to be an emotional hell for you to truly address the reason why you got involved with this woman. You didn't find this website by accident. None of us do. We went searching for something because we knew something just "wasn't right". Even under all the projection, blaming, rages, confusion, push pull, weird insane behaviors, there was a sane part of us that would not crumble. We googled things like "My ex cheated on me while my father was dying from cancer and now acts like I don't exist literally overnight" and up came with a million hits for BPD.

There are a lot of powerful tools and discussion on these boards for nons who are desperate for help and answers to the private hell they've been living. Nons are victims of abuse and like any victim of extreme abuse, people don't usually talk about it. I'd recommend you go buy the book "One Way Ticket to Kansas". Read it 50 times if you have to until the reality of your situation starts to really sink in.

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ScotisGone74
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2014, 01:07:00 PM »

John you may want to read over some of the other many posts about being 'friends' with BPDs.   I wouldn't want to say its impossible... ... . but its impossible.      Honestly staying  in contact puts you in direct aim to receive more hurt more manipulation and more blame.      And for what?   Friendship is truly a two way street.   Ask yourself what you would receive from a continued 'friendship' with this person.   
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lemon flower
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2014, 01:26:09 PM »

John you may want to read over some of the other many posts about being 'friends' with BPDs.   I wouldn't want to say its impossible... ... . but its impossible.      Honestly staying  in contact puts you in direct aim to receive more hurt more manipulation and more blame.      And for what?   Friendship is truly a two way street.   Ask yourself what you would receive from a continued 'friendship' with this person.   

hello ScotisGone,

I'd like to read some of those topics too, can you link some here ?

thank you!
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ScotisGone74
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« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2014, 09:03:15 AM »

Triss just browse up at down the pages here for titles about "Friends", there are many that ask questions about being 'friends' with the exBPD.   
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Tincup
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2014, 11:50:47 AM »

Maybe it would be possible to remain friends IF they could stay within YOUR boundaries.  But in my case she can't, and when I enforce them she paints me black... . so no you can't.
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findingmyselfagain
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2014, 01:32:36 PM »

There are many posts about what happens when you try to stay friends. I stayed in touch with mine after the b/u because I didn't know about BPD and the b/u seemed very ambiguous. I wanted to be sure if she was the love of my life or not. It sure did seem like it at one time. We'd email back and forth on FB and email occasionally. Sometimes she would be very responsive... . sometimes she would ignore me for a month or more... . sometimes she would be vicious. Why did I keep trying? What is keeping you stuck? For me it was really kindness and compassion. I saw the hurt side to her and I wanted to be a  healing force in her life. Is that really healthy though? Why would I essentially ask for drama or a high-maintenance r/s in my life if I was at peace with myself and truly thriving? That's something I still have to think about. So far I've managed to move slower and make wiser r/s choices. I needed to learn to love myself and do the work to find healthier r/s's. It's worth the journey, however long it may take. It's easier for me when I'm easier on myself. I just know that I need to work at it a little harder until it comes a little more naturally.
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JohnThorn
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2014, 08:10:13 PM »

John... . this is one of the best things I have read on this board... I have saved it to my phone and read it daily... I know the empty feeling that you have... I have been there ... still kinda am ... but I look at FACTS of what my exgf did ... . look at the facts of what she has done to you... read this below ... .

They were never into you to begin with

They are seriously mentally ill. Stop trying to make sense of her behavior. You can't. Stop trying to rationalize it. That's why it's called "mental illness" and a "Personality Disorder". For a borderline to admit they have BPD is to admit their perceptions of reality have been crazy their entire lives and that they are insane. It's life changing for a BPD to get better. It takes real commitment and you have to constantly be fighting your very perception of reality. Think about that and understand the magnitude of such a thing. It's daunting and is terrifying for someone with BPD. It's alright to take pity on their condition and empathize, but you need to accept it, pity it for a moment, then move on with your life. Forever. There's no going back. She's already violated every possible boundary a healthy person would even begin to accept with you. It's admirable that you still care for her, but take it from someone who knows. They are wasted tears and wasted emotions. Your BPD is not thinking about you at all. She never does. She has new supply now that is meeting her emotional needs at the moment. There is no guilt. No "sigh, I miss him" crap you see in the movies. They are out laughing and having a great time in the arms of another man. Believe it and accept it or you will drive yourself off the cliff emotionally and go crazy yourself. That cloudy thinking leaves you stuck in Oz and vulnerable to that sucking sound of a very good vacuum cleaner.

A lot of people cling on to a desperate hope that "there's a chance", because there have been VERY FEW success stories. BPD is never cured though. It's a life long condition, yes even with DBT. Borderlines can only learn to recognize suppress and control their behavioral urges. Not stop them. There is biological evidence to prove this and there is very intriguing data about how the amydala can be a key factor in the illness, on how there is differences between normal people and borderlines in this regard.

You have to stay NC to protect you from yourself. I know what would happen if she contacted you right now. You'd be on your guard, but you'd talk to her, feel the intoxication of her attention because it's feeding your addiction to her. She would seem normal, maybe even tell you "You're really the one. She needs you. Only you understand her... blah blah blah"... . but you have to understand, when you're dealing with a borderline, it's never about you. Ever. "It's always about them."

Once that simple statement, "It's always about them" truly resonates within you and you accept it, you will never be over this relationship. It's taken me years to start to feel normal again after my relationship. I'm only telling you this because I empathize with where you are right now. How you feel. I've been there man, stuck in the deepest pit of despair over my heart ache and sense of insanity and injustice. It makes you question your very existence. It's as if who you thought you were was a lie, because of how easily discarded like used tissue they made you feel. It's a very real and very large ego hit. It destroys what's called your ideal self. The truth is they were a lie. Their entire lives are a lie. It was never a real relationship between the two of you. Not on any rational, sane, healthy level. It's not possible with a borderline.

You were abused. Badly. No amount of iron mental defenses a person has, it can quickly wither under the subtle manipulations of a borderline. They have been known to manipulate therapists using tactics like Projective Identification. It's toxic mentally to be around these people for sustained periods of time. Now that I've been out of Oz for awhile I've met women and dated them and immediately recognized the HUGE ridiculous red flags that borderlines exhibit early on in the relationship.

This is true for all borderlines. When you first meet them they are very engaging. They suck you in. Make you feel like home. Their attention is fixated on you, and only you. You feel wanted. What you think is the "chemistry" you've been looking for, is a death trap. You need to run away. Even when they mirror you, within the first or second date, they can't keep the BPD behaviors in check. Look for the subtle signs. How they make quick movements and will do loud things, because they want people to look at them. They always want attention. When I'd go to a bar with my ex, it was always about her from the second we walked in. She wanted people to look at her 24/7. She'd wear really tight outfits so her body was on full display. They want attention 24/7.

When they are mirroring you and sucking you in, remind yourself that there is a guy who really cares about her that is exactly like you. Being played. Manipulated. Used. Taken for granted. Once they smash your boundaries and you accept it, forget it. They have you and then you're in for a world of pain my friend. It never ends well with these people. They are a wrecking ball to all the lives they come in intimate contact with. You're never the only one seeing the BPD behavior and/or being a victim of it. Other people see it too. Their family knows. Deep down, unless they are crazy too. Borderlines stick out like sore thumbs to people who are rational with solid healthy boundaries in place. Healthy people avoid them like the plague.

You have a long journey ahead of you. I'd advise you to start strapping on your boots now, because you're going to go through boot camp. It's going to be an emotional hell for you to truly address the reason why you got involved with this woman. You didn't find this website by accident. None of us do. We went searching for something because we knew something just "wasn't right". Even under all the projection, blaming, rages, confusion, push pull, weird insane behaviors, there was a sane part of us that would not crumble. We googled things like "My ex cheated on me while my father was dying from cancer and now acts like I don't exist literally overnight" and up came with a million hits for BPD.

There are a lot of powerful tools and discussion on these boards for nons who are desperate for help and answers to the private hell they've been living. Nons are victims of abuse and like any victim of extreme abuse, people don't usually talk about it. I'd recommend you go buy the book "One Way Ticket to Kansas". Read it 50 times if you have to until the reality of your situation starts to really sink in.


I read this 3 times today, thank you!
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JohnThorn
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« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2014, 08:10:47 PM »

Thank you so much guys! Man this is a great place!
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lemon flower
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« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2014, 04:06:25 AM »

I suppose "staying friends" with a BPD, equals "staying"... .

as such I might have to move to the staying boards 

I came to realise that even though we are now living separatedly, having our own lives (technically), avoiding sexual intercourse, meeting eachother on a "limited" base, etc. we are still having a r/s on an emotional level, and it's still based on HIS needs... . although there are "benefits" for me too

but this way it works for me: having defined this as a friendship helps enormously to set boundaries and limits the expectations of "more" , both to him as to me

and we are both happier: me because I can still be there hor him, and he is more thankful and feels less lonely, and I am the only female friend his has, which is a completely different dynamic than "meeting with the guys"

allthough he hangs around with them he is too disordered to really connect to them, and he doesn't feel safe with them, sometimes for no reason, sometimes because they truly can't be trusted, as they take advantage of him or bully him :-(

I suppose I became some kind of personal coach to him, a resting area where he can relax a little bit... .
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Tolou
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« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2014, 07:24:40 AM »

Stay friends? John, why would you want to do that to yourself? or to her?

Maybe the best friend you can be to her and yourself is to stay away as difficult as that may sound.  Theres a reason why the relationship didn't work, whatever theose reasons are, it didn't work.  Learn from it, and slowly move forward towards bettering yourself and finding real friends and happiness in life.  In no way am putting people with BPD into a box or to say that they can't truely love or be someones friends.  But it's obvious that you still have deep emotions for this person, being their friend won't work... . Do you want to be there as a rebound or recycle everytime her realtionships fail?  Do want to be used and hear of her being with other men while you it idly by and hope that maybe she can see you for who you are?  The truth is, you both had your chance and for x-amount of reason you went your seperate ways.  You can find find someone else in life that will make you feel at home and loved, their out there, but it takes hard work to find.  I have found someone, and like someone mentioned early "she isn't my other half"... . she's her own whole person, and I am too.  We compliment one another, and have good healthy bond that is reciprocal of both of our needs being met.  We have boundaries, we respect one anothers boundaries, I am not emotionally blackmailed with back against the wall... . etc... . I feel like I am part of someone elses life, not responsible for it, or their actions, their behaviors, their words, their past, their sadness, etc... . Some people with BPD refuse to, or unable to realize that, or admit, or incapable of getting the real help they need... . Just to have a chance at living happier lives.  No one can tell you to be her friend or not, it is a decision that ultimately you will need to make with your own mind and heart at it's best interest.  But, I can advise you against it from my own experience... . There no real apologies coming your way, no empathy, no remorse, atleast not in the way you need that type of validation from someone you love and who says "they love you too".  Be careful, don't return yourself to a source of pain that it is unhealthy, ask yourself, "why would I want to do this"? She has been without you, and you have been without her and times in life, and this can be true moving forward. Goodluck... .
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« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2014, 01:03:18 AM »

I just want to add my thoughts to this thread John.

I've been struggling for a while now with my feelings around this too because my exuBPDbf keeps emailing me telling me he misses me and he loves me and he can't stop thinking about me.  Every time I read this it hurts me and I drift around in a daze of pain and confusion trying to work out why I still feel so much for him even though he treated me so badly.

I have figured out from thinking and from reading a lot of posts on here that the reason why I was and still am so attracted to him, so 'in love' with him, is that he responded to me exactly the way I'd always dreamt my soul mate would.  It was amazing, like magic!  The reason for this, I've learned, is that they mirror us exactly.  I projected onto him and he mirrored back what I was projecting, so he 'became' my perfect love.  We vibrated at the same pitch.  They don't really know how to love, or think they don't, so this is how they do it through necessity... .

It turns out though that this was hard for him to sustain.  He broke up with me after a week, suddenly seeming very insecure and brittle probably because of some small thing which I said or did that he felt was a sign that I didn't love him (enough).  He told me it was because he was scared because he'd had a nasty divorce and he was afraid of getting hurt again.  Then we went round again and it was all lovely again, until a week later and boom!  Wash, rinse, repeat... .  This pattern left me dazed and confused and instead of walking away, which was what every instinct I had was telling me, I got more and more hooked in by the manipulations, albeit unwitting, from him.  After a couple of months of this he settled down for a while and we had a few wonderful months with occasional blips.  But not for long the bliss... . oceans of pain were to follow.

It was the push-pull effect which had me so confused.  He would hate me one day and do and say vile things, then the next day would love me and tell me he couldn't live without me.  I was so confused and in so much pain that when it stopped, even for a few days, I was grateful and hopeful and wanted to believe that it would change.

So what I'm trying to say JT is this, we get caught on a hook, a big shiny hook, and willingly too because we project this fantasy of perfect love.  I/We are needy and lonely and deep down have longed for this person all our lives.  The reason we can ignore the obvious  red-flags which are dotted around all over the place is because we want this so badly.  

I keep going back over the same thought process roundabout.  I love him, he loves me, I was soo damn happy and he was my best friend in the world, ever.  I don't want to live without him!  Then I think about how he behaved in the last months of our r/s (actually for all of our relationship really) and I just can't physically make myself go back, my body won't do it!  Which is a blessing I can tell you.  I am so scared of the dark places I went with him.  

Each time I go round this roundabout and come out safely the other side, I'm thankful that some sense of sanity and self preservation keeps me away.  Reading what people write on this amazing site always helps me to get perspective if I'm lost.

Being friends has also offered itself as an option to us.  He often says he can't lose me and wants to just be friends.  But I ask myself whether any of my other friends have ever hurt me as deeply as he has?  And there it is, the answer is categorically, no!  So I stay away and don't respond to his messages.  Or I respond, explaining why it can never be and there is silence for a while.  He hasn't written for a while now and I'm hopeful that he has given up... .



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« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2014, 07:30:40 AM »

The answer to your question is... . yes, you CAN stay friends with them.

If you do, they will do nothing short of completely ruining your life.
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2014, 08:07:34 AM »

Why not just be friends?

   Because "friendship" with a BPDex - from their perspective - means "You keep giving me everything you always have, and I'm free to be as present in or absent from your life as suits me at any given time, with no rules, no accountability, and no matter what I do, you've already given me permission".

  That's why, JT.

  I understand exactly how you feel - I also care very much for my uBPDxgf (and her kids), and I tried the just friends thing. It doesn't work. The friendship will always be 'lopsided' - you care way more than she does, and it will only lead to continued hurt and misery.

  You don't have to stop caring, but you have to care for yourself. 
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« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2014, 08:15:54 AM »

My God Janey, i had to look left to see if i had written your post and forgotten. It is exactly my life, even all the timings of breakups. And i love LA4610 answer. I did stay friends and yes im almost completely destroyed today. I am going to print out the quote from Howzah, i just read it through twice and lightbulbs were going off everywhere.

I think i just agreed to friends to keep him from painting me too black. Made myself a martyr. My fog is lifting more and more.
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« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2014, 09:53:27 AM »

Janey, I am having goosebumps all over from reading your post.

It is very touching and right on the spot.

TIL
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« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2014, 10:40:32 AM »

Indeed, Janey, your post is thoughtful, insightful and elegant.  It captured the struggle and angst of both of you. 

Thank you.
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« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2014, 10:52:19 AM »

Being friends has also offered itself as an option to us.  He often says he can't lose me and wants to just be friends.  But I ask myself whether any of my other friends have ever hurt me as deeply as he has?  And there it is, the answer is categorically, no! So I stay away and don't respond to his messages.  Or I respond, explaining why it can never be and there is silence for a while.  He hasn't written for a while now and I'm hopeful that he has given up... .


To add to this, if you wouldn't want to be friends with someone because of the way they treated you, why in the world would their behavior be acceptable in a romantic partner? I think it warrants taking a long, hard look at what your notion of love entails.  :)oes it entail "fighting for it" and "it not being easy" and "you can't choose who you love"?  Or is it grounded in things like mutual respect, affection, and fidelity? I'll be the first to admit that with my BPDex it was the first set of principals.
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« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2014, 12:17:32 PM »

Janey, I'm having goosebumps all over my body from reading your words.

You've described the complexity of your feelings so well and I find myself relating to almost everything you said.

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« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2014, 02:17:02 PM »

It's tough to be objective when dealing with someone with BPD. the attraction is profound. only with time have I been able to step away and say... why would I ever want to be friends with someone that is as vicious as my ex-was? not just to me but to everyone around her including our children.

People with BPD are often highly capable in their chosen profession, make friends easily and are generally quite charming people until you see the other side... then look out...

for me, I often tell people that there is something really compelling about someone that is able to become exactly who you want them to be... . for a while... who wouldnt like that?

the reality is, people with BPD are like a drug, the effects are often short lived and the hangover/withdrawal can be mind blowing.

I'm an alcoholic thats been in recovery for a while and I'll tell you what I'd tell any person that walks through the doors of AA and says they want to drink. Go right ahead, we'll be here if you get back. I have yet to hear anyone here say, oh they went back to that to their BPD and life is just wonderful now, just like I've never heard anyone come in the doors of AA and say, yep I've been out there drinking and life is just grand, it just doesn't happen. the evidence is pretty astounding... that being said... tear it on up and go back to her... let us know how it goes (good or bad)
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« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2014, 04:05:03 PM »

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139516.0

Excerpt
'Can't we still be friends?' You've probably heard this everytime you've been dumped by your BPD partner, but this not about being friends at all. It is in fact part of their plan to continue to torture you even after the relationship is over. They do this byway of passive aggression.

Here's what it's really all about, so please take note of this if they have managed to get you to agree to this:

Passive aggressive attack number 1: You've been friendzoned by them; this is a passive aggressive attack to tell you, you're not worthy enough to be my partner.

Number 2: They want to really rub salt in to your tender wounds by telling you that they've already met someone else and really happy, or about a one night stand, or new sex buddy. They atypically do this on facebook, or send you the occasional text.

Number 3: They delight in taking "sympathy" when they see that you haven't found anyone yet -- 'Aww poor you. Don't worry I'm sure you will find someone soon'.

Number 4: They get a narcissistic ego boost by seeing you pine for them.

Number 5: They will occasionally mail/text you and "reminisce" over the good times, so that you will be taken back to those times and your heart will pine for them even more.

Number 6: After they'e continued to silently torture you, they will tell you that they can no longer be your friend because it's disrespectful to their new partner. And so you're completely frozen out -- just as they planned.

There you have it. Proceed at your own peril.

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« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2014, 10:18:48 AM »

   Because "friendship" with a BPDex - from their perspective - means "You keep giving me everything you always have, and I'm free to be as present in or absent from your life as suits me at any given time, with no rules, no accountability, and no matter what I do, you've already given me permission".

  That's why, JT.

This is right on, and I just have a quick anecdote to add along these lines.  After about a month I foolishly broke NC a couple of days ago, although I think doing so in the context of having joined this board really opened my eyes.  We talked, she made me feel crappy about myself, said she "just wanted to be friends," told me about romantic encounters I didn't ask about, etc.  No surprises.  Didn't here from her the next day.  So far no surprises.

Today, she texts me in the morning.  I'm a physician and she is a nurse.  She texts to tell me that she has a UTI, explains to me how she thinks she got it (unnecessary), and asks if I will call in prescription for her so she doesn't have to go to urgent care.  Maybe some of you have done this with physician friends in the past, it's pretty typical, but doctors and nurses are trained from the beginning never to do this, that it is unethical to prescribe without examining a patient, and so she knew I would say no.  I slept in and so didn't get her text until an hour and a half later.  Said I wasn't comfortable doing it.  She said it was ok, that she was at the doctor now, and then preceded to guilt me ("I was just in so much pain, feeling desperate, but I knew you wouldn't do it, thanks) even though she was already at the doctor

This is all by way of saying: I am her "friend" only insofar as I meet her needs, no matter how unreasonable.  There is no content to the relationship beyond that.  And THAT is not a friend that I need in my life.  Thanks to these boards, I understand that much better now. 
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« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2014, 12:02:57 PM »

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139516.0

Excerpt
'Can't we still be friends?' You've probably heard this everytime you've been dumped by your BPD partner, but this not about being friends at all. It is in fact part of their plan to continue to torture you even after the relationship is over. They do this byway of passive aggression.

Here's what it's really all about, so please take note of this if they have managed to get you to agree to this:

Passive aggressive attack number 1: You've been friendzoned by them; this is a passive aggressive attack to tell you, you're not worthy enough to be my partner.

Number 2: They want to really rub salt in to your tender wounds by telling you that they've already met someone else and really happy, or about a one night stand, or new sex buddy. They atypically do this on facebook, or send you the occasional text.

Number 3: They delight in taking "sympathy" when they see that you haven't found anyone yet -- 'Aww poor you. Don't worry I'm sure you will find someone soon'.

Number 4: They get a narcissistic ego boost by seeing you pine for them.

Number 5: They will occasionally mail/text you and "reminisce" over the good times, so that you will be taken back to those times and your heart will pine for them even more.

Number 6: After they'e continued to silently torture you, they will tell you that they can no longer be your friend because it's disrespectful to their new partner. And so you're completely frozen out -- just as they planned.

There you have it. Proceed at your own peril.


Well, I think they are less malicious in intent. Mine was using me and her ex hubby when she needed something. It could be soothing, validation, dealing with suicide threats or taking care legal problems she couldn't deal with. It's not reciprocal. There is no concern about you, only what you can provide.
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« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2014, 12:29:14 PM »

 Because "friendship" with a BPDex - from their perspective - means "You keep giving me everything you always have, and I'm free to be as present in or absent from your life as suits me at any given time, with no rules, no accountability, and no matter what I do, you've already given me permission".

 

This is PERFECTLY stated. I am printing this out and hanging it up to read everyday to remind me NEVER to go down the friendship path again.  Friendship can "work" in the sense of getting along, learning how to communicate better and be supportive of one another but it came at the expense of my own happiness.  I tend to find myself on that waiting mode and realizing, as this quote says, that ex just keeps taking and taking whatever can be sucked dry from me with no rhyme or reason and yes with no rules.  There is still a push/pull factor involved in the friendship which can make you quickly miserable.  I still see his "recycle" even if it is not a physical one. 
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« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2014, 01:48:35 PM »

Being friends has also offered itself as an option to us.  He often says he can't lose me and wants to just be friends.  But I ask myself whether any of my other friends have ever hurt me as deeply as he has?  And there it is, the answer is categorically, no! So I stay away and don't respond to his messages.  Or I respond, explaining why it can never be and there is silence for a while.  He hasn't written for a while now and I'm hopeful that he has given up... .

To add to this, if you wouldn't want to be friends with someone because of the way they treated you, why in the world would their behavior be acceptable in a romantic partner? I think it warrants taking a long, hard look at what your notion of love entails.  :)oes it entail "fighting for it" and "it not being easy" and "you can't choose who you love"?  Or is it grounded in things like mutual respect, affection, and fidelity? I'll be the first to admit that with my BPDex it was the first set of principals.

The answer is that it isn't acceptable.  Why do we fall in love with a person who ultimately hurts and abandons us?  I think it's because we are unaware until it's too late.

When I met him I was in a good strong place in my life, but still shaky when it came to relationships.  I suppose I wasn't really capable of being attracted to anyone too 'healthy'.  It was, sadly and ironically, still the best relationship I'd ever had though in many ways. 

In his sick way he did love me and I never felt so happy and wanted.  I miss him all the time and now I know that his behaviour was because of this illness and that I was the trigger, I stay away.  Also, if I went back I would lose my son, my family and my friends, all of whom have stood by me in my misery, and the self respect that I am starting to regain.  Actually I don't want to go back because I think I'm starting to value myself more.

I have taken a long hard look at what my notion of love is Octoberfest, and I conclude that I don't really know what love is.  What I do know is that in my 51 years of experiencing 'love' in its various guises it generally hurts, and sometimes a lot!  The only thing I can do now is step back out of the arena and take stock and try to understand because this last relationship was so painful and so shocking and so sad that there's no denying the mess I'm in any more. 

I found this wonderful quote from M Scott Peck which I'm sure some of you are familiar with,

“Life is difficult. This is a great truth, one of the greatest truths. It is a great truth because once we truly see this truth, we transcend it. Once we truly know that life is difficult-once we truly understand and accept it-then life is no longer difficult. Because once it is accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters.”

I think I figured out something, and it's helping me a lot... .

The only thing I can do now is go forward - there's no road behind me to go back on.  I take each day as a new beginning and just go forward because I know I can't go back.  And actually it's ok, I'm getting used to being on my own and starting to like myself and enjoy my own company.  Something has changed.

Wow, in full philosophical mode today folks  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Janey x

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« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2014, 03:28:42 PM »

I found this wonderful quote from M Scott Peck which I'm sure some of you are familiar with,

“Life is difficult. This is a great truth, one of the greatest truths. It is a great truth because once we truly see this truth, we transcend it. Once we truly know that life is difficult-once we truly understand and accept it-then life is no longer difficult. Because once it is accepted, the fact that life is difficult no longer matters.”

I think I figured out something, and it's helping me a lot... .

The only thing I can do now is go forward - there's no road behind me to go back on.  I take each day as a new beginning and just go forward because I know I can't go back.  And actually it's ok, I'm getting used to being on my own and starting to like myself and enjoy my own company.  Something has changed.

Wow, in full philosophical mode today folks  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Janey x

thank you for sharing this quote Janey. just what i needed to hear, made my day!
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« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2014, 05:58:15 AM »

I ended my friendship with my BPD after agonizing whether or not to do it. Her negative behavior never stopped and it was doing my head in. I realized that it was never going to stop so in the end I ended it.

I think that staying friends will be extremely difficult as you are unlikely to fully heal while they are still in your life.
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« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2014, 06:28:48 AM »

you are unlikely to fully heal while they are still in your life.

   You're right, Jason886. A BPDex is no better at being a friend than they were at being a partner. Once you've become close enough to trigger their fear of abandonment, you'll always be a trigger for them and they'll continue to hurt you. Best to learn from the experience and move on.  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2014, 07:31:13 AM »

No, It's impossible.  Certainly in a healthy way.

To be 'friends' with a BPD ex, I think a person really has no grounding on what a true 'friend' is.

My ex wanted to continue to be my friend, right until her words and actions put me in hospital.  8mths NC later, I have a new home, work is going well and I have a new gf who is gorgeous. 

Being 'friends' with my BPDexgf would put at risk all that I have worked so hard for.  My life wasn't worth a 10p text to her.  So being in her life isn't worth a jot to me either... .   Smiling (click to insert in post)  she has a rubbish life anyway, i'm not missing anything! 
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« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2014, 10:28:26 AM »

I suppose "staying friends" with a BPD, equals "staying"... .

as such I might have to move to the staying boards 

I came to realise that even though we are now living separatedly, having our own lives (technically), avoiding sexual intercourse, meeting eachother on a "limited" base, etc. we are still having a r/s on an emotional level, and it's still based on HIS needs... . although there are "benefits" for me too

but this way it works for me: having defined this as a friendship helps enormously to set boundaries and limits the expectations of "more" , both to him as to me

and we are both happier: me because I can still be there hor him, and he is more thankful and feels less lonely, and I am the only female friend his has, which is a completely different dynamic than "meeting with the guys"

allthough he hangs around with them he is too disordered to really connect to them, and he doesn't feel safe with them, sometimes for no reason, sometimes because they truly can't be trusted, as they take advantage of him or bully him :-(

I suppose I became some kind of personal coach to him, a resting area where he can relax a little bit... .

Triss, I did this.  I had a long-running "I'm being friends with my ex wBPD" series of threads on here & Staying in 2012-2013.

I thought pretty much what you thought -- it seemed good, worthwhile, to us both.  I felt it was as close as he could get to a woman & not lose his ___.  I thought he was taking a time out from dating and this was his primary r/ship, but because of childhood sex abuse and other factors, he really needed me to give him a ton of space.  I did.  I thought we would build trust ... .

What I hadn't counted on was (i) this deeper intimacy could still trigger the crap out of him, and (ii) he really was using me till he had another plan.  He wasn't developing a sense of obligation or commitment to me, that would have been appropriate given the depth of where we went to together & the degree of emotional risk I was taking by being close to him again after he'd betrayed promises to me and hurt me so badly.

The details are spelled out in threads from last year, but basically, when we were very close, deepening our connection, figuring out how to navigate hurt & disappointment, introducing each other to family ... . all the things that you might thing suggest a real commitment to one another -- he suddenly left town.  I hung in and was very supportive, despite how confused I was.  Then he decided to move to another city.  When I expressed a tiny bit of hurt and questioning about why he would just toss away what he had, including us, for new people, places and things, he stopped speaking to me for almost 3 months.  Then we made up and got much closer, again, visited ... . then he started seeing someone else and suddenly everything was different again.  No texts, I wasn't his primary reference point.  No explanation, no sense that he even registered that it was a significant change.  Nor was he honest with me about the new r/ship.  When I finally asked about the changes, he was incredibly defensive and denied that anything important had shifted, and cut off communication again.

Point being: it can feel like you SHOULD be developing a r/ship of growing confidence & trust here, in this safe space of friendship, something more real and lasting.  Except that it is still just there for them to use until they don't feel like it.  Then it changes.  And you cannot achieve any accountability and the r/ship will not stay true ... . it will come and go as their needs shift.

In the end it wasn't compatible with any concept I have of integrity between myself and someone I love.  Not only in my own defense but in defense of what had been so good with us, I needed to stop participating in what was almost a consumer relationship, where he bought & ate my wares when he felt like it.

It's hard to completely let go.  The friendship path seemed like a viable alternative to completely severing what had felt like such an important and wonderful connection.  But in the end, it was another way to be betrayed.  At least that was my experience.

The poster on BPDF who has said the wisest things I've read about maintaining a post-r/ship dynamic with someone wBPD is Conundrum.  You might read his posts.  He stresses that you simply cannot expect to have any possessory interest in someone wBPD.  Your sense that things are special with you, and that that should generate some sense of loyalty and constancy, will be disappointed.  You can only allow them to come & go, and enjoy the connection when they are connected.  If you find that worthwhile, and go in completely clear-eyed about how they will not "wake up" and realize how special what you have is, etc., you might manage some kind of viable long term friendship.  But bear in mind that in that, they do and will play on how you WANT to be special, you want them to be true ... . that makes it really hard to have the emotional self-discipline to continue not to expect or desire that.

Eventually I started to be able to see my ex's techniques for keeping me hooked.  It was like applying heat to lemon juice invisible ink.  That was the day the techniques he used stopped working on me.  Because I saw that the words of specialness were standing side by side with a reality that wasn't compatible with the words -- he didn't know I knew about the hidden facts, but I did, and all of a sudden the wonderful words were so empty.  Having seen that, I might have been able to carry on more clear-eyed and prudent, but at the same time, seeing the unvarnished truth about the "specialness" or lack thereof also sort of stripped out my whole motivation for doing this very challenging, risky, complicated emotional dance.  I finally felt used and manipulated.  It sucks to feel that about someone to whom you have given more and more.  The answer is not to give yet more.

I've adjusted what I give him to what he gives me.  That's always been my rule, I just am more clear now about what it is that he gives me, and it isn't all that much.  He is still trying to pull me in.  He will continue to use me to the extent I allow it.

I don't shut him out entirely, I convey warmth and affection for him, but I cannot allow the impression of great closeness any more.  It's a trick my mind wants to play on me and I have to guard against it in order to not let the connection to this person destroy my sense of value and meaning over and over again.

Hope this cautionary tale is of some use.
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« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2014, 10:52:49 AM »

Are we still on the 'can we stay friends' thread?

Then I would say again, no!  And if you think you can then I would examine your motives most carefully and honestly.

Lets be clear about this... . we became the thing which triggered them over and over until any semblance of the former relationship was battered beyond recognition.  I don't know about you guys but I almost went mad trying to understand how this person could have professed to 'love' me and then behave in such bizarre and cruel ways?

If by staying friends you are trying to 'help' them then think again... . It's a bit like picking up frogs from out of the road to stop them getting run over.  When you physically pick up a frog in your hand you burn it!  Imagine being touched by a large hot iron and carried by it!  You're trying to help but in fact inflicting excruciating pain on your intended helpee.  

Really all you're doing is prolonging the agony - the agony of letting go and getting over it and letting them get on with their sorry lives.  I remember early on in my relationship with uBPDbf consulting the Iching online.  I asked whether our r/s would work and it said, very clearly, that I should enjoy what I had now today because ultimately I could never hope to have this magnetic person for any length of time.  It advised me to proceed with caution, an online Iching!  It was like having a tiger by the tail and hanging on for dear life but enjoying the ride and exhilaration.  I knew I was in danger and I still would be if we were 'just friends'.

Part of the issue is us.  We would be better served by letting go, detaching completely from having any kind of links with our ex and trying to figure out why we were there in the first place.

Janey  

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« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2014, 11:11:56 AM »

I had a long-running "I'm being friends with my ex wBPD" series of threads... .

Are we still on the 'can we stay friends' thread?

      The subject comes up so often it deserves its own board:

      [L7]  The Aftermath: Why Friendship with your BPDex should not even be Considered.

                                                                                                                                                       Smiling (click to insert in post)  
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« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2014, 11:54:01 AM »

Lets be clear about this... . we became the thing which triggered them over and over until any semblance of the former relationship was battered beyond recognition.  I don't know about you guys but I almost went mad trying to understand how this person could have professed to 'love' me and then behave in such bizarre and cruel ways?

Part of the issue is us.  We would be better served by letting go, detaching completely from having any kind of links with our ex and trying to figure out why we were there in the first place.

Ugh... . having a rough day because I am in the process of still going mad trying to understand it... . which is flat out ridiculous when I DO understand what is going on... .   I just can't stop myself from being hurt by it... . and begging for more... .

But to answer the question posed... . sadly, at least in my experience, no it does not appear possible to remain friends... .    :'(
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« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2014, 12:09:01 PM »

I don't think a friendly relationship is even possible to maintain with an exBPDgf/bf.

I've been trying to keep a friendship with her ever since we broke up (a month ago), we just don't have the same definition of a friendship. I suppose I could have anticipated this because I've been able to see how she behaved with her friends. It always had to be about her, how she felt, what she wanted to do, etc... . I've read about maintaining a friendship for quite some weeks now. I'm the stubborn kind, I want to experience it myself and get to my own conclusion. I should have spared myself this one though.

In our "friendship" everything is so one sided, everything is about her, about her needs, about her feelings, about her emotions, about what she wants or doesn't want to do. She's calling or texting only when her day is going horribly wrong and she has nobody else to talk to. If I ever called and shared something with her she always would cut it short. Five minutes tops is what she'd give me. Then I'd get the "Ok, let me go back to... . "

I can sense she still likes the attention and likes to have me on standby or as an option if she ever needs it. The last couple of times we met I've been distancing myself as much as I possibly could. I can sense that somehow bothers her. She'd rather still have me asking to give us another chance. She'd rather still have me deeply hurting about our relationship.

No, it's not possible to maintain a friendship in my own experience.

As much as it pains me, this is the healthiest decision I can take for myself.

Since last night and after sharing my story here, I've decided to go NC.

I know it is going to be hard but again it just seems to be the best decision I can take for myself.
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« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2014, 12:24:39 PM »

double post
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« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2014, 12:28:20 PM »

AchingHeart,

Wow, that is exactly what I experienced.

From the time since we broke up, she called me every day to cry on my shoulder, vent her emotional frustration and problems. One or two hour on the phone and it was always(!) about her and her problems.

Meanwhile she was cruel to me, made emasculating and hurtful comments about my apperance, financial situation, even my intelligence and no matter how hard I tried, didn't show any respect, gratitude and completely lacked empathy towards me.

I was hurt badly. Spent the last two months in FOG just to be used as an emotional tampoo, ego booster until she finds somebody else. She literally kept me hooked until the last minute, with false hope and little baits and would've countinued for months.


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« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2014, 01:17:54 PM »

No on can be your other half. No one can complete you - a healthy relationship involves two folks who are whole and compliment rather than complete. If we look to someone to complete then we are seeking love out of need. The r/s starts on shakey ground with an even shakier attachment.

What is your definition of friendship? Think of your best friend - right a list of important qualities that keep you both in the friendship.

wow, that's so true. My ex just told me that her new bf is amazing. Super chill, exactly what she needs and he balances out her nerves. Which of course hurt, because it implied I wasn't what she needed.
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« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2014, 01:19:56 PM »

I don't think a friendly relationship is even possible to maintain with an exBPDgf/bf.

I've been trying to keep a friendship with her ever since we broke up (a month ago), we just don't have the same definition of a friendship. I suppose I could have anticipated this because I've been able to see how she behaved with her friends. It always had to be about her, how she felt, what she wanted to do, etc... . I've read about maintaining a friendship for quite some weeks now. I'm the stubborn kind, I want to experience it myself and get to my own conclusion. I should have spared myself this one though.

In our "friendship" everything is so one sided, everything is about her, about her needs, about her feelings, about her emotions, about what she wants or doesn't want to do. She's calling or texting only when her day is going horribly wrong and she has nobody else to talk to. If I ever called and shared something with her she always would cut it short. Five minutes tops is what she'd give me. Then I'd get the "Ok, let me go back to... . "

I can sense she still likes the attention and likes to have me on standby or as an option if she ever needs it. The last couple of times we met I've been distancing myself as much as I possibly could. I can sense that somehow bothers her. She'd rather still have me asking to give us another chance. She'd rather still have me deeply hurting about our relationship.

No, it's not possible to maintain a friendship in my own experience.

As much as it pains me, this is the healthiest decision I can take for myself.

Since last night and after sharing my story here, I've decided to go NC.

I know it is going to be hard but again it just seems to be the best decision I can take for myself.

i'm also experiencing this and

"From the time since we broke up, she called me every day to cry on my shoulder, vent her emotional frustration and problems. One or two hour on the phone and it was always(!) about her and her problems.

Meanwhile she was cruel to me, made emasculating and hurtful comments about my apperance, financial situation, even my intelligence and no matter how hard I tried, didn't show any respect, gratitude and completely lacked empathy towards me.

I was hurt badly. Spent the last two months in FOG just to be used as an emotional tampoo, ego booster until she finds somebody else. She literally kept me hooked until the last minute, with false hope and little baits and would've countinued for months."

It's so scary that we all have such similar experiences. Are all these girls destined to fail no matter who they date?
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« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2014, 02:38:42 AM »

People (with BPD or not) can only walk all over you if you lie down on the floor!

Perhaps we should all concentrate on this and also on trying to figure out why we found ourselves lying down on the floor... .
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« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2014, 06:22:53 AM »

People (with BPD or not) can only walk all over you if you lie down on the floor!

Perhaps we should all concentrate on this and also on trying to figure out why we found ourselves lying down on the floor... .

could be several reasons. off the top of my head:

1) because someone suffers low self esteem, dependency issues or previous trauma

2) because lying on the floor is relaxing. because you do this with other friends who lay next to you and you can share stories. so you lay there not expecting to get stomped on by muddy boots out of the blue Smiling (click to insert in post)

3) because you were told to lie on the floor so that you could get a special massage for being such a wonderful person, and then scalding water gets poured on you   

4) because someone is too afraid to admit how terribly abusive this person truly is, either in pure shock or denial

5) because it's my damn house and i can choose to lie whenever and however i like and i already locked crazy outside. can't stop crazy from banging on the door but i can turn up the radio and do a floor-shimmy or simply relax until the sound is less annoying

... . some combination of the above? maybe other reasons?
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« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2014, 06:49:30 AM »

I suppose "staying friends" with a BPD, equals "staying"... .

as such I might have to move to the staying boards  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I came to realise that even though we are now living separatedly, having our own lives (technically), avoiding sexual intercourse, meeting eachother on a "limited" base, etc. we are still having a r/s on an emotional level, and it's still based on HIS needs... . although there are "benefits" for me too

but this way it works for me: having defined this as a friendship helps enormously to set boundaries and limits the expectations of "more" , both to him as to me

and we are both happier: me because I can still be there hor him, and he is more thankful and feels less lonely, and I am the only female friend his has, which is a completely different dynamic than "meeting with the guys"

allthough he hangs around with them he is too disordered to really connect to them, and he doesn't feel safe with them, sometimes for no reason, sometimes because they truly can't be trusted, as they take advantage of him or bully him :-(

I suppose I became some kind of personal coach to him, a resting area where he can relax a little bit... .

triss i think you may be the only person on the thread who is still in the friend-stage of separation. i spent some time there too and actually i don't regret it as i was doing my best, going out with others, dating and such. this didn't stop the pain or cycling depressions but this would have happened in either case. in hindsight, my reason for staying friends was because i needed to know for myself beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was nothing i could do, no way of me being that was creating the drama. so i tried my best to act accordingly.

there's a couple of things you mention that i think you should consider. you mention that you've both agreed to avoid sexual intercourse--i don't think this is something you should count on at all from your ex. the nature of the disorder is that he will seek out other people at his whim, and convincingly lie to you about it. it may be wise to consider this so when/if you realize this was going on all along you are a bit more prepared. pwBPD are specialists at making several people simultaneously feel that they are the most special person 'closest' to them.

it's also possible that his other friends may see you in the same light that you see them. with your ex as the center point he may be distorting the reality of who you are to them and vice versa. it's likely there is someone else in his life right now, that feels like they are that special coach to him just like you do, who because of his words feels that he doesn't feel safe around you, because you take advantage of him and you bully him. when you come to the realization that in actuality you are no more important than the other people he may slander, it can be upsetting.

if you can come to terms with the possibility of him being with another person (soon if not now), and not holding onto the idea that you are actually as special as he portrays things to you, then you may be able to continue the r/s as it is. it worries me though from all our other experiences that this does mean something to you though. you have to get these answers for yourself as we all have, i just wanted to open your awareness up to these likely outcomes.
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« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2014, 09:42:02 AM »

It's so scary that we all have such similar experiences. Are all these girls destined to fail no matter who they date?

Yes, the similarities are stunning. The creepiest is when we find out they say the same things word for word.

Yes, their future relationships are essentially doomed. Even though they might claim everything is perfect in their new relationships it is just a matter of time before they go through the whole cycle again. Selfishly, and now that I'm still hurting about this relationship, that's where I find some comfort. Although she may be happy with someone now, she'll be miserable again, and happy again, and miserable, until someday she decides (if she ever does) to go through therapy.
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« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2014, 12:15:27 PM »



Yes, the similarities are stunning. The creepiest is when we find out they say the same things word for word.

Yes, their future relationships are essentially doomed. Even though they might claim everything is perfect in their new relationships it is just a matter of time before they go through the whole cycle again. Selfishly, and now that I'm still hurting about this relationship, that's where I find some comfort. Although she may be happy with someone now, she'll be miserable again, and happy again, and miserable, until someday she decides (if she ever does) to go through therapy.[/quote]
I agree so much. My gf tries and tells me how happy and great her new bf is, how he "balances her out" And I'm thinking there is no way that is true. Because truly happy people tend to just live their lives and not flaunt their relationship or text there ex at all! They would just live their life happily. It's sad for them. But you're right. Selfishly I take comfort in knowing that her relationship is probably just as sour and dysfunctional as all of hers. At first I thought I was replaces by a big strong "alpha male" She tells me he's that. laid back guy from Hawaii. Now I realized that he's  probably a nice guy, aka, she's chewing him up and spitting him out.

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« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2014, 12:28:16 PM »

I also have to assume that if she's not being very nice to me now in the present moment, then she can't be acting all too nice to her current bf either.
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« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2014, 03:09:20 AM »

My gf tries and tells me how happy and great her new bf is, how he "balances her out"... .

it's important to remember that after the breakup our exes may still be focused on punishing us for perceived transgressions. so this is a ripe time for them to bring up any insecurities you may have had about the r/s or about yourself. your ex knows it was very important for you to feel like you were a good influence in her life, so her saying her new bf 'balances her out' is passive-aggressiveness to punish you apparently for not doing a good job of this.

we should also realize that just as many have found that their exes use the same lines to hook the next replacement--it's likely they use the same lines to punish the ex. it's possible she told the guy before you zenwexler, in a passive-aggressive way when they were 'friends' that you were the one who balanced her out. seeing it in this light helps for us to take these comments meant to hurt us less personally, since a lot of people have heard it already 

my ex just walked into the room one time and started gabbing about how great her bf was, i knew what she was up to so i didn't react. she'd mention how good he was at X. i'd say "ok". she'd continue about how happy he made her feel. "ok". on and on she went not getting the reaction she wanted out of me. finally she pulled the big guns and started telling me how she knew her new r/s was going to work out because he was so trustworthy and she knew they were developing their r/s with "trust". and she knew that trust was the biggest issue for me in our r/s... . so when i finally replied "really? well, i don't give a damn", this gave her an excuse to blow up. mission accomplished. (btw she had known him for 2 weeks at this point and broke up with him only 4 months later  Smiling (click to insert in post) )
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« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2014, 05:29:58 AM »

triss i think you may be the only person on the thread who is still in the friend-stage of separation.  yes, seems so, at least in this topic, and it is quite demotivating because it keeps me wondering if I see this all wrong, but until now, I try to relie on my intuition, which says that for now, it's ok... .

there's a couple of things you mention that i think you should consider. you mention that you've both agreed to avoid sexual intercourse--I meant not having sex with eachother... as we are supposed to be friends not lovers! I don't care if he has sex with other persons, allthough I don't think he actually has someone new yet

pwBPD are specialists at making several people simultaneously feel that they are the most special person 'closest' to them. agree, I'm aware of that

it's also possible that his other friends may see you in the same light that you see them. with your ex as the center point he may be distorting the reality of who you are to them and vice versa... . when you come to the realization that in actuality you are no more important than the other people he may slander, it can be upsetting. I know BP's have a slightly abusive way on how they cope with their "friends" , he actually told me that several times himself, so I am not having any illusions here   

still I know I am important to him, both his mother and some of his friends have "thanked" me for being there for him, as such putting slightly more pressure on my shoulders then I really like , but I must admit it's nice to know that at least I am of some help and support for his mum too  

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« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2014, 12:46:08 PM »

goldylamont, you're so right. When we were dating she would always go back and forth between vilanizing her exes or talking about great things they did or how funny they were. She would always talk about her exes. It would always make me feel like ___. I always think I wonder if she talks about me to him. Like if she says how much I sucked or how great I was. She's not one to ever openly express love or affectionate. And it would kill her to ever pay me a compliment. One day I went to work and everyone loved my sweatshirt. I came over to her house and told her and she was like uhhh, it's not that nice of a sweatshirt.  Only very rarely would she be sweet or complimentry. And if I ever tried to bait it, (I have needs too, it would be nice to feel wanted and loved) she would freak out and be like I hate when you try and get me to say that I miss you or love you. She was very up and down. One minute she would want me to kiss her all the time and be all over her. The next, I would try and give her a casual kiss and she would shriek back like I'm a disgusting monster. It would really really hurt me. I kind of had the epiphany, she would tell me I need to be kinder and more loving, but when I was she would either want more more more and more, or she would not be receptive. She trained me not to be lovey dovey then got mad when I wasn't. I realized that whenever I tried to get cute and nice it would push her away, unless she had a fleeting moment of really wanting me to shower her with love. It seems like the more distant I am, the more she comes to me.  But whenever I take a few steps forward shes like uhhh, we're just friends, or says something passive aggressively.

I guess she truly is lost, I guess she truly is destined to be unhappy no matter who she ends up with.
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« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2014, 02:43:11 PM »

I was in denial about possibly being friends with my exBPD.  Of course, she said "she wanted me in her life", and "wanted to be a good friend".  But if you think it is hard to be friends with a normal ex, imagine an exBPD.  These individuals will not be good friends for the same reasons that don't make good romantic partners.

Reality is setting in with me as I become intellectual about her condition and her behaviors... . it's also been confirmed with her cold behavior since then.
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« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2014, 02:57:34 PM »

John - I believe my ex wanted to remain "friends" to alleviate guilt and shame.  If I was still his "friend" then he wasn't such a bad guy, right?  On my end I see now it was because I still longed for him and wanted to maintain contact and have him in my life.  In retrospect there really wasn't a reciprocal friendship there.  I was who he turned to when he needed to borrow a great deal of money (he did repay me) and when he was lonely or having some other kind of melt down and needed someone to listen and care for him.  I honestly cannot remember one instance in our "friendship" where I got any support, empathy, etc.  However there were many instances where the BPD behaviors continued and I continued to get hurt... . sometimes deeply. 

This time I around I told him we cannot be friends.  I have to stop the bleeding.
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« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2014, 02:58:13 PM »

I lacked common sense about whether or not my ex would be a good romantic partner.  I could not see her, me or our relationship for what it really was.  As the relationship crumbled, I continued to lack common sense as to whether or not she could be a good friend.  With the benefit of hindsight it is all pretty clear now.  Mind you that hindsight has the benefit of about a year and a half of very limited contact!  As I reflect on it all, I think the desire to "keep her in my life" was mostly the avoidance of the pain of final separation.  
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« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2014, 03:53:42 PM »

For me, personally, I have realized that the best thing I can do for myself and for my exbf is not to try to maintain a r/s with him. The most important thing is that it's the best for MYSELF. But also, I trigger him too much and always will, and he deserves the opportunity to go try to find some measure of peace and mental well-being.

We will maybe be people who occasionally (every few years) check in to make sure the other is alive and OK. Maybe. I don't know what the future holds. And I don't feel obligated to check in on him. But that is as far as any r/s between us can ever healthily go.
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« Reply #58 on: April 24, 2014, 05:07:16 PM »

John - I believe my ex wanted to remain "friends" to alleviate guilt and shame.  If I was still his "friend" then he wasn't such a bad guy, right?  

exactly what I recognise in my ex!

and it's almost touching how he's doing his best now to show he can be a "better version of himself", he's really trying to proove something here I guess  Smiling (click to insert in post)

now is my question: isn't this a good thing ? if this feeling of guilt (combined with his relief of not completely having lost "us" is the motivation he needs to do some positive things and to keep on going, then why not ? we all know pwBPD have not much internal motivation anyway... .

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« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2014, 03:36:09 AM »

The answer to your question is... . yes, you CAN stay friends with them.

If you do, they will do nothing short of completely ruining your life.

Yes, I had a conversation with her best 'friend' ( male of course ) he is NPD. I could see how he too was a victim of her disorder. She idealised/devalued him constantly. Ruined any RS he made, even punched a girl who was getting too close to him.

'Friends' ?

They wear out people around them or have showy attachments. The friends I thought she had weren't, other people thought my friends were hers. When I looked honestly at her life and talked to a couple o people I had thought were her friends it was shocking, they had hardly had a conversation with her.

Looking at my ability to not let go when I saw her small betrayals is something I've had to look at.

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« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2014, 03:44:33 AM »

No John,

YOU can't, you have real feelings for her and these will/have been turned toxic by BPDx.

SHE can't , BPD is love in its most toxic form. Love as hate, love as hurt, love as abuse, a dark hole that will open up and swollow your sanity.

I completely agree with this.  I think its possible to be friends if that's as far as things went and you didn't spend too much time with them or get too close attachment wise.  If you remain friends you are just being strung along and used for Triangulation of some sort and their own validation.
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« Reply #61 on: June 02, 2014, 07:21:02 AM »

No John,

YOU can't, you have real feelings for her and these will/have been turned toxic by BPDx.

SHE can't , BPD is love in its most toxic form. Love as hate, love as hurt, love as abuse, a dark hole that will open up and swollow your sanity.

I completely agree with this.  I think its possible to be friends if that's as far as things went and you didn't spend too much time with them or get too close attachment wise.  If you remain friends you are just being strung along and used for Triangulation of some sort and their own validation.

Friendship with an exBPD would just be a form of devaluement, as far as he/she would be concerned you'd only be there cos you were a creepy weirdo who can't take no for an answer, the BPD would just see themselves as 'humouring' and being 'polite'.

Dependent on the situation at the time it would be a form of self-harm to stick around, you're only ever going to get hurt, smeared, disrespected. Theres always somewhere with in going to be that part of you that wants more. They know that. You don't want to be that 'loser'.
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« Reply #62 on: June 02, 2014, 07:59:11 AM »

WOW some great reads here...

John... .

My personal experience would be a resounding "NO!" For me. (I would also like to qualify that I have been able to maintain a friendship after time with nonBPD ex's).

Look, I see now how mentally ill the person is, I have some empathy for that... . BUT I do not see how I can interact with a volatile pathological liar, and maintain any self-love and self-esteem. Again, I have empathy... . but if I see the person (who she presented me), I just have absolutely no respect for her, and I have no idea who she might be at any given moment. After all the lies, cheating, etc., etc., I just have this animalistic instinct to move away from her if approached in public to protect myself (I have gone thru great efforts to cut off all other means of contact).  I got damaged... . and above all, I need to be safe. Call me mean, but I just have no reason to have a conversation with a manipulating, liar who has no sense of her own being for me to connect with on any level. Remember, she doesn't think that there is anything wrong with her? I am not her therapist.

I wish her well. I hope she is OK... . but after the horror I went through, I just need to take care of me... . so I ALWAYS get out of Dodge. I still upsets me... . but I can have no true closure with that situation. Acceptance is key.
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« Reply #63 on: June 02, 2014, 10:22:10 AM »

Friendship with an exBPD would just be a form of devaluement, as far as he/she would be concerned you'd only be there cos you were a creepy weirdo who can't take no for an answer, the BPD would just see themselves as 'humouring' and being 'polite'.

Dependent on the situation at the time it would be a form of self-harm to stick around, you're only ever going to get hurt, smeared, disrespected. Theres always somewhere with in going to be that part of you that wants more. They know that. You don't want to be that 'loser'.

I haven't heard this interpretation before, but I suspect it is correct.  When my ex and I were trying to be "friends," the number of subtly devaluing comments I got increased by a factor of 10.  I would not contact her at all, but she would contact me and then suggest that she was "being polite," although I was not asking to be contacted. This made the whole situation even more difficult for me emotionally, because as Christof notes, it seemed like I had gone from ex-boyfriend to "creepy weirdo" without doing much of anything, and this provoked all sorts of self-doubt and shame, etc. 

The bottom line is that, as with romantic relationships, her idea of a "friendship" is not the same as mine and most likely will never be.  The kind of relationships she has, friend or otherwise, are not the kind in which I want to be involved.
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« Reply #64 on: June 02, 2014, 10:56:50 AM »

Hey JohnThorn... . processing the loss of this relationship is really painful and hard.  Perhaps that is the priority right now. 

Having read some of your other posts, would you say that you currently have a healthy friendship with her that you would like to maintain?  It is really awful to think of losing someone with whom you have such a deep history.  Really awful, and to those of us who have experienced it (and are still experiencing it), it seems like such a needless waste.  But, it is also a needless effort to continue injuring yourself by relating to someone who "has the potential to put you in the ground."  JT, this is not a characteristic of even a "relatively" healthy relationship.

JT, what are some of the feelings that drive you to want to continue to live with such risk and pain?  In my case, I deeply feared the sense of emptiness that would result from losing my ex.  I really, really wanted her and I did not want to face life without that sense of desire.  And, JT, as the relationship began to disintegrate, I started with a T because I was having self destructive thoughts... . all this is to say that you circumstances resonate with me.  I do not ask these questions blindly... . they count and they start to lead to pathways forward.

What is it that feels so comfortable to you about relating to someone who hurts you so terribly?  What are you seeking?  What are you avoiding?  What are you really feeling now?  Right now? 

Thank you for this

You ever look at someone, and no matter what they've done to you, no matter what your feelings for them (based on circumstance and past history) are... . no matter what, you always come back to the love you had for them when you first met?

I met my BPD ex almost 8 years ago.  I was 24.  She was 18.  The way I see it, we were kids.  But the moment I saw her (literally the very first moment)... . I felt like I knew her all my life.  I felt like she was my "other half"... . I fell in love with her in a way that never happened to me before or since.  I can't tell you what it was.  There's something about her eyes, its sensitivity... . but more than that, her face and her aura feel like home base.  I don't feel anchored without her in my life.  I went many years without talking to her.  Long before she was my "ex"... . I cut ties with her many years ago after a brief romantic stint that didn't qualify her as my ex.  I suffered then, but I moved on.  THIS TIME... . I was really with her, and we were very serious.  And I find it unbearable to say goodbye a second and final time.  I don't believe either one of us really preferred being out of the other's life.  I do believe while she has Borderline, and while she's a selfish, delusional person, I still believe she has the capacity to really love.  But I don't believe she has the capacity to be stably good to those she loves.  This is why, maybe only a friendship would do.  I fear without her in my life I will walk around until my dying day with this gigantic hole in my being. 

I think the thing that makes BPD so hard to remove yourself from is two-fold:

I think the people that stand by them are very sensitive to the needs of others, and likely insecure.

And I think there is much about the BPD person that is easy to fall in love with.

However, I cannot for the life of me understand why I was so taken by this girl so fast.  It is very unnatural for me, and it never happened ever again or since.  It was like I felt a spiritual connection never again to be felt.

I don't want to say goodbye :'(

Yes, I understand.  I first met my ex many years ago.  We became best friends, and we went through a lot of challenges to be together. 

We felt like the other's half.  It felt like coming home.  We had a calming effect on each other.  We had a pretty amazing bond, one that neither of us had experienced before.  None of that stopped him from abusing me when we became romantically involved.  I'd never felt so hurt or betrayed. 

I thought that someday we could be friends.  I can't have a friendship with him.  He and I don't share the same core values.  In a friendship, post relationship, he would repeat the abusive behavior.  I would be doing myself (and him) a disservice by having a friendship with him. 

I bolded "calming effect" because that was the thing about us that was so hard to let go.  That ultimately was what I needed to find within myself and provide for myself.  I'm my own best friend.  I needed to come home to myself. 

I know how painful it is.  I never thought in a million years he and I would separate, and not be in each other's lives.  This month last summer I was in the process of extricating myself from the r/s.  I still have much work to do but I'm on the right path.  I no longer doubt my decision to leave him.  I no longer doubt my decision to not engage with him.  I made the right choices, and I'm a stronger and happier person as a result. 

Only you know what's right for you.  Give yourself a chance to explore within yourself what needs nurturing. 
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« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2014, 02:32:04 PM »

No John,

YOU can't, you have real feelings for her and these will/have been turned toxic by BPDx.

SHE can't , BPD is love in its most toxic form. Love as hate, love as hurt, love as abuse, a dark hole that will open up and swollow your sanity.

I completely agree with this.  I think its possible to be friends if that's as far as things went and you didn't spend too much time with them or get too close attachment wise.  If you remain friends you are just being strung along and used for Triangulation of some sort and their own validation.

Friendship with an exBPD would just be a form of devaluement, as far as he/she would be concerned you'd only be there cos you were a creepy weirdo who can't take no for an answer, the BPD would just see themselves as 'humouring' and being 'polite'.

Dependent on the situation at the time it would be a form of self-harm to stick around, you're only ever going to get hurt, smeared, disrespected. Theres always somewhere with in going to be that part of you that wants more. They know that. You don't want to be that 'loser'.

Exactly.  This has been my experience and brought me to the brink.  Completely ego shattering. And hurt me more than anything in life. I don't think they have any comprehension of true friendship. I tried to explain what I needed to be friends and about trust and making effort and in her lucid moments she admitted she had no understanding at all of what I was talking about.  She just wanted to be friends out of pity and to use me when I became useful to her.  That is not friendship.  The people she has as friends are narcissists they are not even true friends. In reality she has no friends.  Only a users and hosts to prey upon. 
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« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2014, 03:14:23 PM »

From my experience it's not possible in the true sense of friendship. I had a BPDexgf over 10 years ago, I split from her because of the usual chaos. We became kind of friends after a few years when we had both moved on. I found that she was Triangulation at one point when she had hassles with her new love.She told me that she wish she had met me now that she's more evolved as a person. I swerved her cloaked advance. We have sporadic contact but she disappears for ages (up to a year at a time) The last time I saw her, she joined me for a surf and told me she had just got divorced after a 3 month marriage. Of course, her partner had become abusive and was completely at fault   It's a friendship of sorts but of no real depth tbh.

With my latest exBPDgf, I really can't see this happening. She makes the last one look like an angel. She took abuse and projection to a whole new level. I just can't imagine trusting someone who has emotionally and verbally abused me like she has again.

The prognosis is poor. The odds are low that this can be a quality friendship without drama and manipulation.












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« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2014, 03:31:07 PM »

I tried to explain what I needed to be friends and about trust and making effort and in her lucid moments she admitted she had no understanding at all of what I was talking about.  

I don't think they have any comprehension of true friendship. I tried to explain what I needed to be friends and about trust and making effort and in her lucid moments she admitted she had no understanding at all of what I was talking about. 

I have the feeling that this is the case as well.  As an example: my ex was extremely unreliable, often cancelling at the last minute with me and others.  I, of course, put up with this when I should not have.  But when other friends would express their anger or dissatisfaction with this, she really wasn't capable of understanding why they would be upset.  She thought it was completely unreasonable and became very angry at them for not understanding how difficult the circumstances requiring her to cancel were, etc. 

As for "making effort," I once asked my ex about a friend of hers she hadn't discussed in awhile.  She said "f*** (friend)" which shocked me, and I assumed they'd had a big falling out.  Turns out the problem was that the friend had gotten a new job (i.e. they didn't work together anymore) and had not "reached out" since leaving.  Of course my ex had also not reached out, and when I pointed that out and suggested that maybe her friend felt the same as she did, she was baffled and rejected the idea out of hands.  After our break, she kept saying how important it was to her that we "stay friends" and then wouldn't contact me for weeks.  When I brought this up, she said "you act like it's my job to stay in touch with you."  This was one of those moments that was so incongruous, so alien to my understanding of how people and relationships worked, that I started to realize friendship was not something that was ever going to work with her. 
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Tausk
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« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2014, 03:54:15 PM »

Is it possible to recreationally shoot Heroin?  

For some people maybe yes.  For me, NO!

Do not underestimate that level of damage that "friendship" can inflict.  I thought I could do it, but I was too attached.  It hurt my recovery.  I deepened the betrayal.  I it set me back years.  The safe way is to break contact and focus on ourselves. 

Unless you have kids together or must interact. I have no comment then.
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« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2014, 04:14:17 PM »



This thread has reached its 4-page limit. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are welcome to start a new thread if you'd like.
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