I broke down and texted him.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I did. I just feel awful about all the terrible things I said to him in anger.  I know I am deep in the FOG but I just couldn't stand it.  I'm still angry and beyond hurt but I can't stand the person I turned into the other night.  I was a vicious, venom spewing harridan.  So I apologized.  Told him I don't hate him.  And I hated ending it like this. 

I did not expect him to respond and he hasn't.  I had to be brutally honest with myself and ask myself if that was what I was looking for.  Because I know him, and I know how I ruptured things by the things I said to him and I knew he wouldn't and I didn't want to set myself up for hurt.  I really just wanted to feel better about the way I behaved. 

I do feel better.  I do feel calmer.  I am still very angry.  I am still very very hurt.  It's going to be a hard and lonely Saturday night.  But I am just exhausted by all of this. 

[Emelie Emelie]

I did. I just feel awful about all the terrible things I said to him in anger.  I know I am deep in the FOG but I just couldn't stand it.  I'm still angry and beyond hurt but I can't stand the person I turned into the other night.  I was a vicious, venom spewing harridan.  So I apologized.  Told him I don't hate him.  And I hated ending it like this. 

I did not expect him to respond and he hasn't.  I had to be brutally honest with myself and ask myself if that was what I was looking for.  Because I know him, and I know how I ruptured things by the things I said to him and I knew he wouldn't and I didn't want to set myself up for hurt.  I really just wanted to feel better about the way I behaved. 

I do feel better.  I do feel calmer.  I am still very angry.  I am still very very hurt.  It's going to be a hard and lonely Saturday night.  But I am just exhausted by all of this. 

[willy45]

Don't feel bad. I did the same thing. Called her out on her BS then felt horrible about it. But let me just reality check here... . Wasn't your response appropriate? It is very common in these relationships to burden yourself with all the blame. That's how they function (dysfunctionaly). What your ex asked of you is crazy and your response was a healthy H#LL NO! Just a reality check here. It's easy to fall into their traps.

[Emelie Emelie]

Hell no was absolutely appropriate.  Pointing out how extremely f'ed up he is... . not so much

[Cardinals in Flight]

Raising hand in shame,  . Been there, done that!  Shall we have shirts made? Lol

It's who we are, really really good, caring, loving people who behaved badly (albeit truthfully) and wanted to make amends.  In a normal adult rs this should be the ice breaker to working things out or ending things and moving forward.  Aint gonna happen here.

Now, breathe in and start to really work on detaching, knowing the outcome is not in our control, and that we do not know what tomorrow holds.  Focus inwardly on what a fabulous person you are and how much better you deserve.

Bless your heart, I soo know how you are feeling.

(())

CiF

[fromheeltoheal]

I do feel better.  I do feel calmer.

Well there you go then.  I say doing what you did can be considered part of detaching.  If you had strong bad feelings about your behavior, to the point that it was gnawing at you, which it was, then apologizing because you thought it was the right thing to do clears up the past a little.  Now that that's done you can move forward clearing that fog and maybe focusing on your future without him; I know it's early, but that is where you say you want to go, so might as well focus on it now.  Hopefully he won't respond, you don't need the aggravation, but do you have a plan if he does?

[Emelie Emelie]

No, I don't have a plan if he does.  The only response I had steeled myself for was one of the F you variety.  I think he was in a bind and turned to me for help (he's done that before) and my refusal embarrassed him.  He won't feel he has anything to apologize for.  At some point he may send me a "I don't hate you either" message.  I don't know.  I guess in that case I would just leave it alone. 

You know what is just breaking my heart tonight?  I just don't understand how he could be so mad at me.  Even in context of his BPD.  I'm not talking about this last exchange... . I'm talking about the whole break up.  He is furious at me for "not meeting his needs".  Nothing specific happened.  But everything was annoying him over the last couple of weeks.  You all know the feeling... . I could do nothing right.  And this "I don't need a mother I need a girlfriend" thing.  Because I was taking care of him after his surgery?  Or does that just help him justify his dumping of me right after I spent all that time taking care of him?  This seriously all started the day after his surgery and completely unraveled one week afterwards. 

[fromheeltoheal]

That kinda makes sense to me.  If he had surgery and you were taking care of him he was more vulnerable than usual, and it changed the dynamic of your relationship.  Borderlines live in that continuous push/pull; too close they feel engulfed, too far away they feel abandoned.  He could have been feeling extra engulfed, the feeling of losing himself, due to the surgery and the care, so he overreacted with push, push you away, and also feel ashamed about it, so off those feelings on you, projection.  Makes for an ugly experience on our end; I experienced it when her kids were getting the best of her and she needed a little too much of my support, and lost herself.  Just my thoughts, maybe they fit a little?

[Emelie Emelie]

Maybe.  I also think the fact that I had been sick for a couple of weeks played into it.  He accused me of not being affectionate and not wanting to be intimate with him.  I never turned him down... . ever.  But I suppose because I wasn't feeling well... . going home earlier and not having sex first... . that might be part of it.  I suppose I should have been more aware of how that might have made him feel insecure. 

[Banshee]

I did. I just feel awful about all the terrible things I said to him in anger.  I know I am deep in the FOG but I just couldn't stand it.  I'm still angry and beyond hurt but I can't stand the person I turned into the other night.  I was a vicious, venom spewing harridan.  So I apologized.  Told him I don't hate him.  And I hated ending it like this.

Did this four days days ago! I was so ugly and then apologized did it again again and apologized... . it's awful how they can make you THAT mad then you feel upset at yourself  and apologize and in my case would get mad all over again bc he wouldn't seem bothered or wouldn't respond to my apologies... wow it just kept going around and around ... I had to finally go no contact and I'm staying that way... my   goes out to you.

[willtimeheal]

Emelie

Don't beat yourself up about it. You said what you said out of frustration and anger. It is good to get angry... . It is part of detaching. As far as him saying he wanted a girlfriend and not a mother and you wondering if you weren't affectionate enough... . stop blaming yourself. His behavior and disorder has nothing to do with you not paying enough attention to him or you not caring enough for him. If anything you probably went above and beyond and he still said it wasn't good enough.  A normal healthy relationship involves two people... . a BPD relationship is just about one person.  I bent over backwards to the point of misery for my BPD and it still wasn't enough. When I had a bad day or problem she couldn't hear of it. The focus could never be taken off of her. His insecurity doesn't come from you so get that out of your head and don't blame yourself. He is disordered and doesn't think like a logical person. Trying to understand him is impossible. Nothing you could have done would have made him feel secure... . so don't even think that way. He is disordered and mentally ill. Stop beating yourself up. You did nothing wrong.

[Banshee]

Emelie

Don't beat yourself up about it. You said what you said out of frustration and anger. It is good to get angry... . It is part of detaching. As far as him saying he wanted a girlfriend and not a mother and you wondering if you weren't affectionate enough... . stop blaming yourself. His behavior and disorder has nothing to do with you not paying enough attention to him or you not caring enough for him. If anything you probably went above and beyond and he still said it wasn't good enough.  A normal healthy relationship involves two people... . a BPD relationship is just about one person.  I bent over backwards to the point of misery for my BPD and it still wasn't enough. When I had a bad day or problem she couldn't hear of it. The focus could never be taken off of her. His insecurity doesn't come from you so get that out of your head and don't blame yourself. He is disordered and doesn't think like a logical person. Trying to understand him is impossible. Nothing you could have done would have made him feel secure... . so don't even think that way. He is disordered and mentally ill. Stop beating yourself up. You did nothing wrong.

we REALLY need a LIKE button.

[Emelie Emelie]

Will - you are right, you're right you're right!  I know it doesn't matter what I would have done... . nothing would ever be enough.  I would always disappoint him.  He expects it.  As much as I feel hurt and angry about his treatment of me I (and I am really hurt and angry) I still feel guilty.  Like I failed him in some fundamental way.  And that I'm not good enough in some fundamental way.  

I kind of forgot about this until now but I did learn in T that part of this is FOO stuff.  My father was not a horrible father by any means but he had a violent temper and could definitely be a rager.  I was forever "disappointing" him and feeling very guilty and "not good enough".  Aha!  But how does knowing that help you move past it?

[Emelie Emelie]

And Banshee I've been there.  Apologizing then hurt and mad that he doesn't respond to the apology!  That's why I had to be very sure (or as sure as I can be) that I wasn't apologizing to get some sort of response from him.  That I really was doing it for me.  Taking care of unfinished business so I can move on.  But moving on, as you know, means slogging through all the pain.  Ugh.  I really wish there was some sort of magic pill you could take.  Wouldn't that be nice?  If just for tonight.  Just to feel calm and peaceful and relaxed... . some sense of well being.     There are probably all sorts of illegal drugs that could do just that.  Too bad I don't know how to get a hold of them . 

[fromheeltoheal]

Cabernet works!

[Emelie Emelie]

   I'm afraid to go that route!  Afraid I'll get weepy and text him and beg him to take me back.  No no no no no!  Well... . maybe one glass.

[Banshee]

smiley  I'm afraid to go that route!  Afraid I'll get weepy and text him and beg him to take me back.  No no no no no!  Well... . maybe one glass.

Me either! I haven't drinked not one glass in 2 1/2 months... The last saturday that I did that  I texted... it was going fairly well to the point that I was going to meet him at his house... I FELL ASLEEP...

something he has says he's done to me ALOT  but I'm telling ya he just stops texting when I get emotional and says he falls asleep.

ANYWAY Sunday morning came and I had a voicemail that said F- you Bit_h your dead to me!

WOW  Never will I drink and text again... lesson learned :'(

[blissful_camper]

It seems that many pwBPD place us in a parent roll.  It may not start out that way, but it seems to go there and many of us unknowingly (through helping) are placed in a position of role playing.  

He wants a girlfriend but he will probably never have one (that type of dynamic) until he works through his issues.  I bet that most if not all of the women that get really close to him are eventually perceived as "mother" to him.  I doubt you're alone in that camp.  

In my experience, by ex was almost constantly doubting, and second guessing.  He would talk himself out of, and into things just to reinforce an idea he had about something or someone.  He was a fault-finder, and as that list became longer, I eventually felt that there was nothing I could do to please him. His emphasis was on those things (finding fault) to justify something to himself, or prove that our relationship would not work, or that I would leave, and so on. There's no winning in a dynamic like that. There's no present moment.  My ex was either in the past or in the future, and I was somewhere in between that trying to relate to someone who couldn't be in the 'now' moment with me.  

It's not about you. Perhaps you got too close for his comfort.  It triggered him, and then it all hit the fan in his mind.  It's no way to live.  The longer you're out of the this, the more perspective you'll gain and the better you'll feel.  You did nothing wrong.  

[myself]

Consistency. We're all looking for balance. A bump in the road, or a rough road for awhile, shouldn't mean Abandon Ship. Not if each person in the r/s is there to stay. Blaming this on fears is kind of bs, people choose to hang on or not. We're still projecting, trying to figure 'them' out. Yet we do have the right to express our anger, sadness, appreciation, with whoever we feel to. Sometimes we might bite back. Delayed reactions do occur. Healing comes in many forms. Getting It Out is important.  

[Emelie Emelie]

It is no way to live.  Everything else in my life was a threat to him.  Everything.  I was thinking today that while he was always volatile... . he was never so volatile as when he was trying to rekindle our relationship.  We had agreed to spend some time together, talk, see if we could figure this out.  Actually that's what I asked for... . he agreed but what he really wanted was for me to just say "yes".  We made plans for dinner.  He took me to one of my favorite restaurants.  I realized his expectation was that we were "back together".  I told him I just wasn't there yet.  If we were going to do this we needed to find strategies to communicate better than we did before, deal with conflict better than we did before.  He became extremely agitated.  I don't remember what he said exactly but he was getting angry.  I was a nervous wreck.  We were half way through dinner when he said we're out of here.  He said I'm not going to sit here while you stare at every man who walks into this restaurant.  I can tell you that was the furthest thing from my mind.  He was FURIOUS with me.  I was so sad and frustrated and the tears started to well up.  He said "You had better hold it together until we get out of here."  We left and he started raging at me in the car.  I had driven that night and I was driving him home.  At one point he started yelling at me to stop the car.  It was below zero that night, he was only wearing a sport coat and I said I'm not dropping you off by the side of the road.  He tried to leap out of my moving car.  I put the child lock on.  He went absolutely crazy.  Jabbing at controls and screaming at me.  We were a few blocks from his house when I did stop the car.  He took off running.  The whole thing was just nuts.  I remember thinking oh my God he really is very very sick.  (And yep... . I still got back together with him.)

My point is I know he is deeply, tragically insecure and afraid of abandonment.  His insecurities trigger his anger.  And his verbal abuse.  Maybe that's why I always forgave it.  So I know, really, that what I did or did not do wasn't really the issue.  The slightest little thing would set him off.  He also had this big issue with "respect".  He was always perceiving that people were "disrespecting" him.  When we were at the hospital before his surgery I asked the nurse if there was WiFi in the waiting area.  She said yes and he said you're probably going to need a password.  I said something along the lines of I'll figure it out.  When he was raging at me the night we broke up he actually brought that up.  That he was trying to tell me how to get on line and I was a condescending b___.  I mean WOW there was just no winning with him.  

You're so right... . this is no way to live.

[1989]

Emelie,

Does it help you to know what to expect (the withdrawal from the relationship)?  I know this is the second time you have gone through this with him. I ask because I think it helped me the last (and now final) time it was over to know what to expect (how unbelievably painful it was going to be).  I think knowing that the crying jags, desperation, depression, anxiety, craving, wanting to hear his voice, needing to know he still "loved" me was going to happen, made it more bearable.

These withdrawals are normal in this type of relationship break-up.  Expect it to hurt and to hurt a lot.  Expect it to feel unbearable, but know that it in not unusual and it is something you must go through.  One thing I learned the hard way is that you want to go through it, not around it.  And when you go all the way through it, you will come out the other end.

These awful feelings you are feeling right now will start to dissipate.  It takes a lot longer than we expect it to, but it will happen. If you can just sit on your hands and not text or call him, in a few days the anxiety will have greatly diminished.  A few more weeks and it will be even better.  A few months and a little better.  It's a very slow process, but in time you will feel better.

Time and understanding the disorder and also the role you played in it will help greatly in healing.  

[Emelie Emelie]

It does help in some ways.  But I never "got over it" the last time.  Never really did withdraw from the relationship.  Never went more than a week without contact.  I also never felt like I was all that "special" to him the first time around.  This time he convinced me that he had never loved anyone the way he loved me and he was totally committed to making this work.  So in some ways it's worse. 

What's different this time is my realization that it just won't work.  Ever.  I'm not sure that I've totally accepted that yet... . but I know it.  And I do know that I need to cease contact with him.  That I won't be able to heal from this if I keep engaging with him.

[HappyNihilist]

Emelie, I completely understand the need to feel good about how you handled it. You sent that text for your own peace of mind, and there is nothing at all wrong with that. You did what YOU needed to do to help get your own closure.

That being said, I agree that you had nothing to feel bad about. 

Emelie

Don't beat yourself up about it. You said what you said out of frustration and anger. It is good to get angry... . It is part of detaching. As far as him saying he wanted a girlfriend and not a mother and you wondering if you weren't affectionate enough... . stop blaming yourself. His behavior and disorder has nothing to do with you not paying enough attention to him or you not caring enough for him. If anything you probably went above and beyond and he still said it wasn't good enough.  A normal healthy relationship involves two people... . a BPD relationship is just about one person.  I bent over backwards to the point of misery for my BPD and it still wasn't enough. When I had a bad day or problem she couldn't hear of it. The focus could never be taken off of her. His insecurity doesn't come from you so get that out of your head and don't blame yourself. He is disordered and doesn't think like a logical person. Trying to understand him is impossible. Nothing you could have done would have made him feel secure.... so don't even think that way. He is disordered and mentally ill. Stop beating yourself up. You did nothing wrong.

It seems that many pwBPD place us in a parent roll.  It may not start out that way, but it seems to go there and many of us unknowingly (through helping) are placed in a position of role playing. 

This is very true. I never thought I would, starting out. But I eventually became the mother to the angry little child.

In my experience, by ex was almost constantly doubting, and second guessing.  He would talk himself out of, and into things just to reinforce an idea he had about something or someone.  He was a fault-finder, and as that list became longer, I eventually felt that there was nothing I could do to please him. His emphasis was on those things (finding fault) to justify something to himself, or prove that our relationship would not work, or that I would leave, and so on. There's no winning in a dynamic like that. There's no present moment.  My ex was either in the past or in the future, and I was somewhere in between that trying to relate to someone who couldn't be in the 'now' moment with me.

My exbf was also full of doubt and second-guessing. And a fault-finder. And yes, he had a huge list of reasons "why I would leave." None of which were in any way real TO ME, but were rather fragments picked up from past abandonments (real or perceived) and his own insecurities, emptiness, and distorted world view.

And for someone like me who is very much about the present moment, realizing that he didn't and never would have one... . yeah. Not good.

It's no way to live.  The longer you're out of the this, the more perspective you'll gain and the better you'll feel.  You did nothing wrong. 

This.

What's different this time is my realization that it just won't work.  Ever.  I'm not sure that I've totally accepted that yet... . but I know it.  And I do know that I need to cease contact with him.  That I won't be able to heal from this if I keep engaging with him.

Exactly. You know what you need to do for yourself.   

You will have time and distance and support in your journey to accept and understand. But knowing it will never, ever work is the key.

You're doing great work. 

[1989]

Emelie

I was aware that you didn't get over it.  I read the boards a lot and followed your story.

I think when they take it as far as he did the last time with you (the promises he made, the love he expressed) and then they renege on those promises, it helps us end it, because there is nowhere left to go from there.  It's like there is nothing they could possibly say to get us to trust them again.  That's the way it was for me.

It's very difficult.  I won't sugar coat it.  It is the most painful thing I have ever had to go through.  Being in the chaos changes us and it clouds our thinking and our perception of things.  Also, the trauma that we are experiencing makes it harder to process things.  I noticed after a few weeks I started to get some of that rational thinking back.  I won't lie, though, it was pure hell to get through.

[Emelie Emelie]

Thank you 1989.  You are right... . it does help end it.  There is nothing he could possibly say to get me to trust him again. 

[willtimeheal]

Emelie

The hardest part for me was taking the focus off my BPD and putting it back on me. I felt guilty too... . like I didn't do enough... . That I wasn't good enough. And boy was she verbally and emotionally abusive. The names and the put downs I would be called. And if you hear it enough after a while you begin to believe it. You have to step back and some how realize that the BPD is talking about themselves and not you. You can't feel guilty for not fixing their life. They are responsible for their life just like you are responsible for yours. If they had a ___ty life growing up its not your fault. You weren't even there at that time. It had nothing to do with you. They can complain about it all they want but it is up to them to seek help and its up to you to put boundaries on how you expect to be treated. And don't ever feel guilty about expecting to be treated with respect and dignity. When I was detaching I found some quotes or saying from the co dependency book and some I just liked from books and kept them in my pocket. I read them when I was feeling down and they reminded me how awesome and amazing I am.  Hang in there it gets better. 

[Emelie Emelie]

WOW it hurts this morning.

[fromheeltoheal]

Did you enjoy any Cabernet last night Emelie?  Still no response from him?  What are you feeling?

[Cardinals in Flight]

Did you enjoy any Cabernet last night Emelie?  Still no response from him?  What are you feeling?

What he said ^^^^^^ 

[willtimeheal]

Also I went on antidepressants to help me through the hardest of times. I am not saying you should go on them but for me it was the right choice. I was able to find a level of calm and then sort through everything that happened and find myself again. For me medication was a good thing.

[Emelie Emelie]

No response.  A good thing.  I'm feeling way too vulnerable this morning.  Realized I had no Cabernet last night.  :)idn't have it in me to go get some.  Thinking how pathetic that would be... . the lonely woman hitting the liquor store on Saturday night.  Feeling absolutely awful this morning to be honest.  Feeling like I am f'ed up beyond repair when it comes to relationships.  Feeling sad and scared and lonely.  Can't summon the resolve or relief.  I was feeling crazy, compulsive, desperate to reach out earlier this morning.  Tell me you got my message... . tell me you forgive me... . I know you're angry and I'm so sorry.  I got through it.  I guess I can deal with sad, scared, lonely.  It's when I start to feel nuts about this that it scares me.  Well... . the depression scares me too.  I feel like I'm sinking.

Thank you Cardinal and Heel for asking.  It helps.