She has put the writing on the wall.

[Cipher13]

I have tried all I can in the staying. I can't work this out. She has made it clear from the email this morning.

Our relationship was built on you givong me what I want when I wanted. We got to go to Florida we went to Colorado (and back) and you had better go back to that way again.  All you do no is tell me no and im sick of it! I dont care how this sounds to you. You better go back to giving me what I want since that is how it has always been before.

You said you would relocate for me if I did the EdD program or conservation officer; is that a lie too! I can't do those if you aren't willing to relocate! Im sick of you telling me no. Why do you want to stay there so dang bad because of a fricken chick that you are doing!

Nice huh!  

[Trent]

Wow.  Just wow.  If I were to receive a message like that, I would print it out and keep it in my wallet.  Any time I started to miss her, I'd pull that out and read it.  For me, it would make detaching soo much easier.

How do you feel about that message?

[BorisAcusio]

The funny thing is, at some point, we may all have contemplated about marrying these "creatures". It sheds light on our own issues just as brightly as the pwBPD's.

[InSearchofMe]

Hi cipher13,

Having read many of your past posts, I have to ask, are you actually going to take steps to leave?  She doesn't say anywhere in this that she is leaving if you don't do what she wants.  She is just telling you what to do, which is nothing new.  If this relationship is going to end, you are the one who is going to have to end it.  Are you ready to take that action?

[jibber]

Holy ___! Excuse my french... .

At least she's being honest... .

RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! And don't look back.

Dear lord... .

[Cipher13]

This email is ther result of a converstion she initiated about wanting to split up. She mentions splitting up daily now. But doesn't anythign towards that either so they are empty words I guess.

[nownotsure]

Our relationship was built on you givong me what I want when I wanted.

Wow! I don't know what to say cipher. At least she's being honest about what it is she expects out of a relationship. My ex was never that direct, but she had the same selfish belief system in place. It's sad that the only people they really care about is themselves.

I agree with jibber: Time to cut the rope and run for your life.

[nownotsure]

This email is ther result of a converstion she initiated ... . so they are empty words I guess.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them; the first time.

[InSearchofMe]

So you're back to the same old stalemate.  She says she wants to split up.  You say you can't do this anymore.  Neither one of you are willing to take any action.  If you are truly done, you have to take the action.  Are you willing to do that?

[slimmiller]

Classic projection. She is seeing her own unhappiness and anger as coming from you instead of from within.

Mine did almost the same thing. Only difference is she did NOT tell me. Instead she spent a number of years telling it to me little by little. I almost always caved.

She almost had me uprooting the family, selling the house, quiting my job and moving 8 hours away because that was going to make US happy... .

Something made me finally balk. 6 month later, she was flopped down in a college dorm room 2 hours away with a foreign exchange student half my age (my replacement) while I was home raising the kids and working 60 hrs a week. Oh and it was all because she could not live with the fact I had dated someone she knew from before her and I met

So in the end, if you give her everything, everytime, it will probably not be enough.

I think she told you all she needs to in order for you to make decision accordingly and decisions that lead to you being happy, not emotionally terrorized like that

[WalrusGumboot]

Neither one of you are willing to take any action.  If you are truly done, you have to take the action.

InSearchofMe is right. You will have to be the one. My exBPDw hinted at splitting up all the time too. I had to be the one because she can then blame me for "throwing her in the trash." I had to be the Bad Guy. You will have to be the Bad Guy too.

If anybody questions your decision to split, if you do, show them the email you posted here. They will understand.

[seeking balance]

This email is ther result of a converstion she initiated about wanting to split up. She mentions splitting up daily now. But doesn't anythign towards that either so they are empty words I guess.

Cipher, this is the leaving board and I know you normally are undecided or staying - just want to be certain this is where you WANT to be.

She is dysregulated, it is clear from her email - these things do pass... . are you saying you are done totally?  Have you hit your wall?

[jibber]

If anybody questions your decision to split, if you do, show them the email you posted here. They will understand.

This.

I wish my ex would have said it so clear and honest. We are their servants, nothing more.

I remember one weekend in particular with my ex... . I ran around with her all day going here and there to do the things she wanted. We arrived at home, i continued pampering her... . Until this point i felt ok doing so (comes natural to care for your partner, right?)... . It was about two hours later when she settled down on the couch with her computer and i started doing something for myself (going through my records),  when she looked up from her computer and told me to get her a drink from the refridgerator... . I was baffled. I spent a whole day reading her wishes from her lips, and when i start doing something for myself, she's too damn lazy to walk to the refridgerator!

I took a white napkin, put it over my forearm like the waiters in a fancy restaurant, and brought her the drink like this. She was very upset by this, she understood perfectly what i tried to say with it. Her reaction: "Why are you such a dumb boyfriend?".

Again, at least yours is being honest about what she wants from you. I would keep reading the first message of her email, over and over, until it sinks in... . Doesn't that message horrify you?

[BorisAcusio]

This email is ther result of a converstion she initiated about wanting to split up. She mentions splitting up daily now. But doesn't anythign towards that either so they are empty words I guess.

She is dysregulated, it is clear from her email

Dysregulated? Likely. Rare honest moment? Yes. Whatever you decide, don't underestimate the content of this letter, in a nutshell, that is how borderlines universally view the world and she was kind enough to put in words herself.

[Cipher13]

?)... . It was about two hours later when she settled down on the couch with her computer and i started doing something for myself (going through my records),  when she looked up from her computer and told me to get her a drink from the refridgerator... . I was baffled. I spent a whole day reading her wishes from her lips, and when i start doing something for myself, she's too damn lazy to walk to the refridgerator!

This sounds just like my life. I will keep that email just like i keep all nasty grams I get. I have saved some texts also. I'm on the boad because I do not want to contiue the r/s. I have come to this over many night just layin awake thinking about my life. How I got here and where I want to be. I lack the action. Infact even my wife knows I do not follow through with difficult things.

[KateCat]

I lack the action. Infact even my wife knows I do not follow through with difficult things.

Cipher, what a wonderful opportunity has just been handed to you! I think you can do it.

[cosmonaut]

Wow.  She has certainly put her cards on the table, hasn't she?  This actually sounds like some strong NPD in addition to BPD.  It's rather breathtaking in the vanity and entitlement being displayed - very NPD.  I'm so sorry, cipher.   :'(  I can't imagine how hurt and how angry I would feel to have my SO say that to me.

What are you planning to do in response?

[BorisAcusio]

Wow.  She has certainly put her cards on the table, hasn't she?  This actually sounds like some strong NPD in addition to BPD.  It's rather breathtaking in the vanity and entitlement being displayed - very NPD.  I'm so sorry, cipher.   :'(  I can't imagine how hurt and how angry I would feel to have my SO say that to me.

What are you planning to do in response?

Hidden narcissism, as labeled by Otto Kernberg, is an integral part of the Borderline Personality Disorder.

[Red Sky]

As far as I'm aware, in a lot of cases the two are often considered to be comorbid. Doesn't really matter what the diagnosis would be though because the main point is still

     

[seeking balance]

This sounds just like my life. I will keep that email just like i keep all nasty grams I get. I have saved some texts also. I'm on the boad because I do not want to contiue the r/s. I have come to this over many night just layin awake thinking about my life. How I got here and where I want to be. I lack the action. Infact even my wife knows I do not follow through with difficult things.

Cipher,

Being married and having to leave even when they indicate they have left is a challenging dynamic... . I completely understand where you are.

For me, there was a point that I just couldn't do it any longer - I was just done, it was not exactly some big or different event, it was just more of the same... . yes, my exw was triggered and yes I had the skill set, but I couldn't look at me in the mirror any longer if I allowed it to continue.

If you are at this point, we are here for you.

Follow through is not some big event, it can be baby steps.

Peace,

SB

[Soulslider]

Hi there :-)

I agree Cosmonaut, there is a strong hint of NPD there, as well as HPD. I read that BPD is a combination of NPD and HPD both grouped in Cluster B of the DSM chart. I recently also read that they will get rid of Grouping in these categories, but I'm not 100% sure so don't want elaborate. Anyway the message is clear and loud! It screams: LEAVE!

Listen to these two songs for strength and will:

American Woman by The Guess Who

Easy Lover Phil Collins

thanks for reading ,take care

[GaGrl]

I was going to quote Maya Angelou on the "When someone shows you who they are... . " and then saw that someone had already quoted it.

My DH spent many years with the uNPD/BPD he called The Dark Princess.  Although their situation had different dynamics from yours (TDP engaged in constant, blatant infidelities beginning 18 months after they married), your wife's email reminds me of what the ex said during a conversation.  It was another attempt on DH's part to discuss her behavior and the effect it had on him and the children.

Her reply... .

"I know it's wrong, and I know it hurts you.  But it's what I want to do, so I'm going to do it."

That was about as blunt as anything I've ever heard from a narcissist -- UNTIL I READ YOUR WIFE'S EMAIL.

[Skip]

I'm at the end of relationship rope I think. She is to. Telling me she hates me. Can't stand the sight of me and does not feel any sort of love for me at all. But desparately wants me to make her fall in love with me. Do anythign and everything so that every day feels like the relationship was like it was when it was brand new. Do this or its over is basically what she said. Every day she wants an apology for makeing her feel worthless. For treating her like crap. I need to be over the top doing things that get her to love me. She wants everysingle thing I do to be intentional and meaninful and deep for her and towards her.

I know these are unrealisticlly unsustainable. I keep telling her I am trying to be like that but she reminds me every night I have fallen well short and is angry with me for lying to her. Lying that I would do these things and yet I can't.

Is this what it looks like when its the end of a realtionship like this? She wants the new fun fresh exciting feeling of a brand new relationship. I don't know how to do that liek she wants.

I never think that it is a good idea to take 1 element of a ongoing cycle of conflict within a relationship and just hang it out here.  Our partners likely could find some things we said that, out of context, looks really bad.

This note doesn't read to me like a narcissistic wound at all - it reads like desperation and anxiety - begging to be saved and loved (in a certain way).  Your wife is almost sounding like a screaming child in a grocery store.  Is it a tantrum?  

Cipher, you two are at an impasse on a very significant life decision, right?  To relocate.

And you say she is feeling that the romance is gone and she worthless, etc and you are not saving her.

Is she highly distressed?  Is she beginning to have a mental breakdown?  Is she seeing a thrapispt?

The last week things have been going just find. No rages, a few almost beginning of some things like, "I still think you are cheating and I can't prove it. You prove that you are not." 

Now the biggest thing that may or may not come up is that she is still looking for jobs that will make me give up my jpb which I really really enjoy. Not easy to find a job that I will like this much. If the jobs she is looking at pay less than either of us make now its easier to say no. Now she has an interview for one in a remote area that pays about $12k more than eitehr of make now. Cost of living is low in that area and its a place I'd retire to... . ie its remote and has a lot of wilderness. But I'm way to young to not work mid 30's and I know I won't find anything around there... .

I am afraid of what will happen here. She will want to do it. Its a good opportuntiy. I won't be able to or want to go so I will be the bad guy... . Not lookig forward to this. Then again there is the chance they don't select her... .

This was your last post on Staying - 8 month ago - same issue was in the air.  Sounds like this is really putting a lot of strain on the relationship.

Have you had any outside help with this?

[Cipher13]

Have you had any outside help with this?

I have tried to get some help. Personaly I have no thad much luck on my own. She hasn't cared for the T I have seen nor the results that were coming from those visits. We have sparatically gone to a T for several years. This kind of thing isn't discussed in couples marriage counseling.

I may have made things worse last night. She was completely adimit about the fact that my current job is the cause of her distress and if I were to get another job and job other than this one it woudl please her to no end and make her so much happier. I bent to the pressure and agreed I'd look to find a better job. I hate myself for that. The only reason I went along is to apease her apparent turmoil and suffering. Why I know it isnt th ecuase and the next job will end up being the issue to.

[WalrusGumboot]

The only reason I went along is to apease her apparent turmoil and suffering.

I fell into this trap countless times, to do whatever just to buy some peace. But it just kicks the can down the road. Doesn't solve anything.

She sensed your job meant something to you and that your attention was not 100% on her, so she moved to take it away from you. You can get a job where you are miserable, and that might satisfy her, and you can then be miserable all day and all night, just like she. She wants you to be as unhappy as her.

Well, so you said you will look for another job. You can always go through the motions of "looking for another job" (wink, wink) and just happen to not do well during interviews (nudge, nudge). This might buy you some time until you work out your next steps.

[ivan da terrible]

cipher,

I feel for you.  I was married to someone exactly like that.  No matter what I did, bought, or gave satisfied her insatiable desires.  After much therapy (for myself) because she refused, I had to leave.  It was the hardest decision I ever made.  I am recovering, albeit slowly.  I wish you luck.  Take care of you.

[Skip]

Have you had any outside help with this?

I have tried to get some help. Personally I have not that much luck on my own. She hasn't cared for the T I have seen nor the results that were coming from those visits. We have sporadically gone to a T for several years. This kind of thing isn't discussed in couples marriage counseling.

I may have made things worse last night. She was completely admit about the fact that my current job is the cause of her distress and if I were to get another job and job other than this one it would please her to no end and make her so much happier. I bent to the pressure and agreed I'd look to find a better job. I hate myself for that. The only reason I went along is to appease her apparent turmoil and suffering. Why I know it isn't the because and the next job will end up being the issue to.[/size]

Cipher,

Is extended posting on undecided or now, leaving helping you?  It's a hard question. Where we post and what we post is really important.

This problem (relocation) has been kicking around for months. Clearly she has dipped into some unhealthy space and you probably have too over the matter.  

A fundamental disagreement on where you live and who you work for or who's career comes first is a big deal.  Putting all the other issues aside for a moment, this could be a deal breaker for any relationship. Its not a right or wrong thing - it's a compatibility thing.

At some point, a relationship can get into areas that can't be compromised or worked out and we have to make choices.

Are you at this point?  Is this irreconcilable?  

The note may or may not be the telling factor here - it's a meltdown note and people say things - its more important to look at the totality of what is going on.  Over-reacting to things like it (both the OP and the supporting members) can hurt us because we already struggle with narrowed perspectives from the emotional fatigue and struggle to see the bigger picture of what is going on and what we can do.

Last September the two of you found peace for a while on this.  Was it real?  What has developed since then?

What the big picture?

Skip

[momtara]

Sounds like you *did* set up a pattern of doing what she wants.  You  have to tell her that it's hard for you to live in a situation in which she isn't trying to give you things to make you happy too.  

[slimmiller]

Its very hard sometime to have the strength to actually do what we really need/want to when dealing with a PD.

BPD by its very nature uproots us and debases us to the point where we can then be manipulated into doing what they NEED us to do. It does not really matter what makes us (nons) happy or what we need.

She has made her demands very clear that she is in control (or asserting that control) of how and what she needs. Her note is giving you a clear and difinitve clarification of what she intends your role to be in the relationship I think.

When I read 'Stop caretaking the Borderline or the Narcissist' is when I really understood how the roles were being played. It was the paradigm shift I needed to really consciously see it.

Soon after that, my ex in one of her tirades concerning a custody issue with the kids (we were midway through the divorce) blurted out, 'you are no longer useful to me'  It hit me like a ton of bricks but I needed to hear it. It was the difinitive moment that really drove everything home for me.

[KateCat]

Cipher, I've read a good number of your posts and have a hard time thinking that this is just an issue of a couple at an impasse when it comes to an important life decision. That this is more likely beyond compromise is something I think I concluded after reading this post from you in August of 2013:

Finacial things were worse than tight and with not having jobs for either of us I joind the Army.  BIG mistake. That type of separation and abondonment feeling  sent her over the moon I was told. She cryied  every single day and would just scream  and not come out of her room according to her parents. They took her to see T where they said she had maybe bipolar and separation anxiety. She was able to on her own call teh Army canget them to send me home while i boot camp. She rose sucha stick that teh comander of the base  pulled me into his office and said get out. I was a pee on in basic training  and she made the Army's lives such a hell that they just said get this guy out so she will leave us alone. I'm sure that not exactly how it went but several of the other drill seagents pulled me aside and said they never see anyone wife ever do what she did. The whoel base was aware of it it seemed.

I guess the U.S. Army had some pretty clear boundaries for itself in this instance. Much tougher for you.

Can you re-read some posts of "waverider" while you're trying to sort things out for yourself?