Idealization Flashback

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

The idealization phase, so wonderful hearing all those great things. I was shaving today and while looking in the mirror I had an idealization phase flashback.

My ex told me I have the body of a Greek god, it is a perfect body that should be painted by an artist and then hung in a museum. I thought to myself WTH? I look ok I guess, I'm not Quasimodo, but a Greek god? At the time I thought should I ask her if she has been smoking some forbidden substance? Wondered if I should explain to her how I am not really that good looking as she thinks? I figured why talk her out of it, it sounded nice though. If I talked her out of believing this, maybe she would look for another dude who looks like a Greek god.

She would even look at a scar or a birthmark or something and say how much she loves the blemish. WTH?

My question is did you ever hear compliments during this phase that made you think to yourself "What the hell? Have they been smoking something that isn't tobacco?"

[AwakenedOne]

The idealization phase, so wonderful hearing all those great things. I was shaving today and while looking in the mirror I had an idealization phase flashback.

My ex told me I have the body of a Greek god, it is a perfect body that should be painted by an artist and then hung in a museum. I thought to myself WTH? I look ok I guess, I'm not Quasimodo, but a Greek god? At the time I thought should I ask her if she has been smoking some forbidden substance? Wondered if I should explain to her how I am not really that good looking as she thinks? I figured why talk her out of it, it sounded nice though. If I talked her out of believing this, maybe she would look for another dude who looks like a Greek god.

She would even look at a scar or a birthmark or something and say how much she loves the blemish. WTH?

My question is did you ever hear compliments during this phase that made you think to yourself "What the hell? Have they been smoking something that isn't tobacco?"

[antjs]

The idealization phase, so wonderful hearing all those great things. I was shaving today and while looking in the mirror I had an idealization phase flashback.

My ex told me I have the body of a Greek god, it is a perfect body that should be painted by an artist and then hung in a museum. I thought to myself WTH? I look ok I guess, I'm not Quasimodo, but a Greek god? At the time I thought should I ask her if she has been smoking some forbidden substance? Wondered if I should explain to her how I am not really that good looking as she thinks? I figured why talk her out of it, it sounded nice though. If I talked her out of believing this, maybe she would look for another dude who looks like a Greek god.

She would even look at a scar or a birthmark or something and say how much she loves the blemish. WTH?

My question is did you ever hear compliments during this phase that made you think to yourself "What the hell? Have they been smoking something that isn't tobacco?"

yes. if i would describe the idealization phase in a sentence that would be "it is too good to be true."

been there. praised about some physical features that i find above average. i always remember her saying "your eyes are so beautiful and deep. but they are so sad. why they are so sad ?" maybe my eyes were predicting my future  :'(

[woodsposse]

 

I met my GF shortly after me and my (now) ex-wife split up.  We have been in a r/s now for just over a year and a half.  :)uring this time, I know I have looked at her and commented on a lot of things about her which I found adorable that she probably thought herself as just plain.  I know this because we have talked about it.  Yeah, some of the things she felt about herself as not being "all that" because other people may have "put her down" about during her time here on earth.  But I was serious.  I was (and am) really into her.

I like her stubby thumbs.  I really like this qwirky smile she gets, or the fact her face gets all red at the drop of a dime.  I am BPD... . NOT!  But my "idealization" of her is simply me taking her in and using the language that I have running around in my head to express it.

I say this because I think it is important as much as we all have been scared by r/s with pwPD... . not all "idealization" is as black and white as black and white thinking of a pwBPD.  Not every "idealized" compliment is something so entirely negative - even in taken in context of dealing with someone with a PD.

I think it is a more prudent approach to remember that not everything that ever comes or came out of their mouths is false, fake, untrue, mean or has no meaning.

I personally think my the young lady I started dating is extremely physically attractive - and - I enjoy doing even the littlest of things with her (like going to Dunkin Donuts and having a coffee).  But maybe in her mind she is too short, too stumpy, not attractive enough - or maybe not so attractive as to warrant the attention I pay to her.

Am I being "idealistic"?

I guess I'm saying this from a perspective of where I am at at this point in my healing and development and integration of all the negative things which happened in my marriage to my pwPD.  No matter how horrible things got - I do remember as clear as yesterday there were great times as well.  Times of true love and care and concern.  Both times were true (the good and the bad).

So to recall the wonderful words which were said as all bad... . again... . can't be as black and white as black and white thinking for a pwBPD... . lest we continue to fall in the cycle of the behavior itself.

[antjs]

I met my GF shortly after me and my (now) ex-wife split up.  We have been in a r/s now for just over a year and a half.  :)uring this time, I know I have looked at her and commented on a lot of things about her which I found adorable that she probably thought herself as just plain.  I know this because we have talked about it.  Yeah, some of the things she felt about herself as not being "all that" because other people may have "put her down" about during her time here on earth.  But I was serious.  I was (and am) really into her.

I like her stubby thumbs.  I really like this qwirky smile she gets, or the fact her face gets all red at the drop of a dime.  I am BPD... . NOT!  But my "idealization" of her is simply me taking her in and using the language that I have running around in my head to express it.

I say this because I think it is important as much as we all have been scared by r/s with pwPD... . not all "idealization" is as black and white as black and white thinking of a pwBPD.  Not every "idealized" compliment is something so entirely negative - even in taken in context of dealing with someone with a PD.

I think it is a more prudent approach to remember that not everything that ever comes or came out of their mouths is false, fake, untrue, mean or has no meaning.

I personally think my the young lady I started dating is extremely physically attractive - and - I enjoy doing even the littlest of things with her (like going to Dunkin Donuts and having a coffee).  But maybe in her mind she is too short, too stumpy, not attractive enough - or maybe not so attractive as to warrant the attention I pay to her.

Am I being "idealistic"?

I guess I'm saying this from a perspective of where I am at at this point in my healing and development and integration of all the negative things which happened in my marriage to my pwPD.  No matter how horrible things got - I do remember as clear as yesterday there were great times as well.  Times of true love and care and concern.  Both times were true (the good and the bad).

So to recall the wonderful words which were said as all bad... . again... . can't be as black and white as black and white thinking for a pwBPD... . lest we continue to fall in the cycle of the behavior itself.

yes thats true. both idealization and devaluation are true. yes we were special but not that much special. we were being put on a pedestal. BPD is an emotional dysregulation disorder with both negative and positive emotions being exaggerated.

[woodsposse]

yes thats true. both idealization and devaluation are true.

yes we were special but not that much special.

we were being put on a pedestal.

BPD is an emotional dysregulation disorder with both negative and positive emotions being exaggerated.

Yes, what you are saying is true.  However I feel that my meaning may not be coming across the way I'm intending.

No one can put you on a pedestal unless you want to be put on a pedestal.  And, not every expression of how someone articulates their feelings is "idealization" in the form of a the disorder.  Nothing is that black and white.  If it is seen as that black and white - then it stands to reason that it is the same black and white thinking as the disorder makes it.

And as far as being special... . speak for yourself.  I'm about as special as they come!   

Seriously though, I'm just trying to temper the conversation to a bit of balance.    This is not to imply that if "one day" you are the best thing since sliced bread and the next you are lower than pond scum is not a cycle of idealization and devalueing.  Far from it.

But... . once you see yourself in a place of balance - maybe you can also see that some forms of expression (even from a SO who may have a PD) in the form of expressing their pleasure with you isn't always a negative or 'false'.  We ... . as "nons"... . from a place of wholeness and wellness and balance have a sound sense of ourself and any "false" words of admiration or pedestal putting can't exist.

It's a balance thing - not an either or (black or white) thing.

[Banshee]

Haha, yes  Mine surley took a swig or two of the bong water, he would tell me how crazy he was about me and asked what sorta spell I put on him, Said he was so crazy for me that he couldn't even  get the curls on the side of my  neck out of his mind. Thing is, he KNOWS I hate my curly hair  So all I got out of that "compliment"  was dag nappit where's my flat iron!

On the other hand I've also had him do the extreme reverse also. TMI

I had a tipsy girlfriend tell me I had an attractive private , Weird I know but she was drinking and all us girls (in our 40's) were having a ball reminiscing  our younger years and younger bodies...   but she said it and I laughed and told the ex , he looked at me with the " I smell $hit" face and said obviously she hasn't seen many pu$$ies .Now writing this out is weird and  embarrassing enough so  can you imagine how shocked and hurt I was.The look on MY face was unexplainable  and I couldn't find one single word to say. things like this is what I focus on to move on,actually I should have ran after that uncalled for comment.

[Lion Fire]

Once she said " you are a beautiful, beautiful man. You radiate pure light and women are drawn to you, they are entranced. You are in a REAL relationship now and you have to be responsible with your beauty" This was after a woman smiled at me in the underground which sparked off a mad jealousy rant. I'm not bad looking sure but this was just silly tbh. I even knew it at the time and asked her to take it easy. She also told me to contact a model agency because I have such beauty. I'm 45 

Yes, it was too good to be true.

Once the devaluation started I became convinced that her charm offensive was idealization.

I asked her once what her true feelings were. What was the truth? The compliments and love she showered me with or the terrible things she said? She told me "both are true. Love and hate come as one"


That sums it up best I believe

[Narellan]

My ex had a fascination for my skin. He complemented me on how soft, tanned unblemished it was. Also my blonde hair, he played with it all the time.

And of course I had the best pu$$y he's ever seen.

But the thing he commented lots on was my innocence. He loved my naïvety on certain worldly things. Vulnerability. Said I was a pure soul.

Probably was before he did his damage 

[Lion Fire]

hahahaha Narellan 

my ex would go on and on a about my penis... . she would completely objectify me and it was alright at first but weird as time went on. Some the compliments did not make sense tbh and I would tell her that. her reply was " beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

Funny thing is, she would say the complete opposite about the exact same things towards the end. beautiful became "ugly inside and out", sexy became "sexless", perfect became "disgusting and despicable".

That was and still is confusing 

[Narellan]

Haha well this may be getting too personal but I've had a couple of wines so here goes:

My exBPD said if they were looking for a perfect pu$$y to make a plaster cast mold of, it would be mine... . ... .

He was artistic... Lots of photos... . Saw beauty in everything.

And he never said otherwise even when I was painted grey... .

He just said I was an alcoholic that's the worst he could think of...

[Lion Fire]

 

aye, she spoke about making a cast of mine to use when I wasn't around. She was obsessed with this but I guess I wasn't the first guy she had been like this with although she said I was   

[Narellan]

Lol guess we'll never know... . They probably say it to everyone.

Mine was obsessed with photographing me nude. It worries me now that he has so many... What he'll do with them. He's already posted a few on FB then removed but my parents and sister saw and it's been a big mess of  NC with them and arguments.

Another thing I've learned. Don't trust anybody ... .

[Lion Fire]

whooah, that's tricky damn!

It's crazy the things we do. I'm the same, i was completely disarmed by her charm and softened by her incessant lovebombing. I was lured into such a false sense of security and unity with my ex that I spoke about and did things I would never have dreamed of ever doing.These same things she reversed and used against me eventually. It was like I was entering a golden chamber of gifts and blessings. Once I was in there, the lights started to dim and the vampires and zombies started crawling out of the shadows 

That said, i still have hope in my heart. I think we can trust again, it's about getting solid within ourselves, tapping into our intuation and actually choosing to be with trustworthy people. A buddy of mine has a policy of not having any sexual intimacy with a partner for a 100 days after starting a "courtship". he said that the intoxication of sex has always blurred his judgement in the past and warped his decision making. he makes an excellent point. He is now married to a fantastic woman and lives a peaceful and nurturing life with her.

Blessin's and keep the faith 

[Narellan]

Your mate is right! I attach to anyone I have sex with. It's ridiculous. So if I do that too soon, ignoring red flags then I'm stuck... .

I think I'll take on that policy .

[woodsposse]

Once she said " you are a beautiful, beautiful man. You radiate pure light and women are drawn  She also told me to contact a model agency because I have such beauty. I'm 45 

Well all I know is I'm going on 49... . and I really should contact a model agency cause I'm HOT! 

(Just keepin it real for a wonderful Friday morning!)   

[Banshee]

My exBPD said if they were looking for a perfect pu$$y to make a plaster cast mold of, it would be mine... . ... .

He was artistic... Lots of photos... . Saw beauty in everything.

And he never said otherwise even when I was painted grey... .

He just said I was an alcoholic that's the worst he could think of...

HAHA, I was terrified to use the actual body part or atleast a more civil name for it in my reponse, but said ahhh why not, that is the word he used ... ... atleast your ex used it as a compliment,now I have a complex and actually took a gander at it. I didn't feel the need to scream "I'm am NOT an animal"! (elephant man) so I guess the sun can continue to shine

[Banshee]

Funny thing is, she would say the complete opposite about the exact same things towards the end. beautiful became "ugly inside and out", sexy became "sexless", perfect became "disgusting and despicable".

Yes when he made that comment to me it wasn't what he said just months ago.Everything that was good turned bad everything that was bad turned evil... I can't imagine having to live with a mind filled with such turmoil

[woodsposse]

Another thing I've learned. Don't trust anybody ... .

One of the things I find interesting, especially after coming to this site and being part of this awesome support group is... . it isn't so much about not trusting anybody - but to trust the fact that when they show you who they are the first time to believe them.

I know, looking back on my life and past relationships - I don't know if they were pwPD or not (maybe they were just immature women who were unsure what they wanted in life) - but the all, pretty much, showed me very very early on, things about themselves which made me feel kinda wonky inside - but I pushed it aside and tried to continue forward.

I know a lot of that was because of me.  I know part of me use to think that they 'dynamics' and 'struggle' between us in the r/s was normal. It was a normal part of trying to figure out the dance between us two.  WHen in reality, I was was fighting my instinct to just run (for whatever the reason).

I also stayed in it because I thought I could deal with it, maybe fix it... . even if that meant me "fixing" myself (or what I thought that meant).

I know I thought if I didn't 'step out' of the r/s, talk to other women, carry on emotional relationships with other people (aka triangulate), didn't get so bent out of shape with perceived dissapointments... . drink too much... . not get upset over small stuff... . yadda yadda yadda - that everything should be fine.

But in reality, all I was doing was going directly against what they had already shown me as to who they are.

So... . it isn't a fact not to trust someone.  Quite the opposite.  Trust them that they show you exactly who they are... . and believe them.

[Banshee]

But in reality, all I was doing was going directly against what they had already shown me as to who they are.

So... . it isn't a fact not to trust someone.  Quite the opposite.  Trust them that they show you exactly who they are... . and believe them.

NOTHING can be said better than that... Thank you,  I needed to hear that today

[Narellan]

I've enjoyed this thread, quite therapeutic to have a lighthearted look at stuff said. And Banshee   you're a beautiful woman and you know they swing in a dime with compliments/ criticism. Don't take it to heart.

Woodsposse I became a supermodel. He took photos of me everywhere. I was in fantasy land.

The thing is, I've dated a few men in the last 2 years since my split and I listened to all the red flags and didnt stay with any of them. One guy I went for dinner with ate food from my plate in a first date and that was enough to put me off him. Another guy made me pay for a cab home and that was enough to out me off him. But most of my red flags about my BPD were around doing photos I was feeling a bit uncomfortable about. So I thought it was because it was something new and a bit scary more the experience than him as a person. Like pushing myself to go on a theme park ride. So I overlooked the red flags and thought it was excitement not fear. I get the two mixed up sometimes. They are gut feel red flags but because I'm 48 and lived a fairly sheltered life, I did lots of things with my exBPD that I felt were bucket list things. If I don't do them now I never will type of decisions. Possibly I was in mid life crisis mode too. So even though the warnings were there, I was excited and ignored them.

I've learned from that now I think. To go with my gut because things fall apart when you don't.

Sorry I've gotten a bit off topic

[AwakenedOne]

One guy I went for dinner with ate food from my plate in a first date and that was enough to put me off him.

One time my ex ate half the french fries off of my plate when I stepped away from the table for a moment.:'( When I returned to the table, the remaining fries were arranged in a new stack / pyramid as to make it look like there were more there and to give the illusion that none were taken.:'(

[woodsposse]

I don't think too far off topic. And, yeah some of the things you mention may have been bucket list things or excitement or mid life stuff. We are the same age so I know what you are saying.

but at the end of the day you are right to trust your gut. If it doesn't work for you then it doesn't work for you.

years and years ago i took a young lady out for drinks and the way she ate her popcorn totally turned me off. Was a shame cause she was hot... . but she was a slob.

so whatever works for you... .

[Red Sky]

Oh dear, I'm a food thief. But I do ask permission before I do so! My exbf was very annoying about food... . If I ate all of my food, sometimes he wouldn't share his even if he wasn't eating it all  :'( Always felt like such a heifer even though I'm a long distance runner and eat more than most people. Is that a weird red flag right there? That my relationship made me feel fat and greedy?

[Banshee]

The thing is, I've dated a few men in the last 2 years since my split and I listened to all the red flags and didnt stay with any of them. One guy I went for dinner with ate food from my plate in a first date and that was enough to put me off him. Another guy made me pay for a cab home and that was enough to out me off him.

Oh My Gosh! THIS should be a post of it's very own!  Simple things that made you turned off with others but overlooked all the red flags with your SO BPD.

The guy with the bad breath was dumped  without any notice and even now is referred  to as "STANK breath" but yet BPDex has puckered up for what I thought was a cute little smooch, ended up he ran his tongue across my lips quick like with chew tobacco in his mouth ... that was ASS NASTY! Did I dump him ... naw, he was cute as a bunny with hiccups...  

sheesh...

[Banshee]

One time my ex ate half the french fries off of my plate when I stepped away from the table for a moment.cry When I returned to the table, the remaining fries were arranged in a new stack / pyramid as to make it look like there were more there and to give the illusion that none were taken.

I'm sorry AO but this is kinda funny , I could see myself doing that, not on a first date but later on  for sure

[Lion Fire]

Idealization in itself is an HUGE banner of red. 

I got hit square on with this tactic as I was vulnerable and susceptible to trickery. Tbh, my ex was a walking, talking  but i blanked all the signs and lapped up the compliments and seduction. I see "ignored my intuition" posted a lot on this forum and that is exactly what happened to me. A healthy person is in tune with their intuition, trusts and acts on this. I wasn't healthy. My head took over and rationalised things and another part of me had a mind of it's own and got lured into the intoxicating world of lust    My life lessons at this time is to detach, heal and  fill up from the inside, trust my instincts and act on them. 

[Red Sky]

Did any of you notice the idealisation, see it for what it was and then set about trying to love the hell out of the person and make them see they were valued? Because I knew I was dealing with BPD. I just didn't know that meant that logic didn't apply :P