Adjusting the facts to match her feelings

[Moselle]

An Aha moment for me whilst reading the book "Walking on Eggshells".

For years I've gotten so mad about the lies, the absolute aberration of the truth, but I just read that normal folks react to facts with feelings. Eg. If we win a sports race (fact), we feel good.

My uBPDw has for years changed the facts to fit her feelings. One example is when she decided not to speak to her parents ever again. I tried many times over 18 months to help them reconcile, to NO AVAIL. Until we separated 6 months ago. She re-united with them, and this has been subsequently changed to "my husband forced me not to speak to my parents, he accused them of abusing me". Bizarre! but this is her new reality to fit her feelings of abandonment.

Anyone else have examples of having the facts changed on them by a BPD SO, to suit their intense feelings?

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[flowerpath]

Yes, Moselle.  That happens in our home.   It is amazing how in very few words to members of his family, my husband can paint an untrue picture as fact, or twist the facts, to reflect his feelings.  The person he tells gives a response that validates his feelings, and there you have it.  It’s pretty amazing how good at it he is. 

[Moselle]

Yes, Moselle.  That happens in our home.   It is amazing how in very few words to members of his family, my husband can paint an untrue picture as fact, or twist the facts, to reflect his feelings.  The person he tells gives a response that validates his feelings, and there you have it.  It’s pretty amazing how good at it he is. 

Flowerpath, my sincere condolences. Its quite a thing to understand this stuff. I'm still a novice trying to work out how it all works. I know that I'm the target of her vitriolic untruths. It's quite bizarre how no-one else sees it. I think most folks just agree to avoid the awkwardness. It just kind of passes by their conscious minds. Do they know they are talking nonsense? My wife gets a confused look when I mention what she said, and she just blows it off as if I'm talking the nonsense LOL.

[flowerpath]

LOL.   A novice here too. 

One recent instance of a fabricated scenario of feelings vs. fact resulted in one of my husband’s family members deciding to end all contact with both my husband and me in one concise, incorrect, very rude knee-jerk assumption and accusation about the conflict in our relationship.   Although I know what was said that made the relative do that, my husband acted clueless when I asked him about it. 

My feelings were hurt for a while, but I eventually looked at it this way:  I know what the truth is, and there is strength in that.  The relative was unknowingly deceived and took the bait.   My children and I are not in danger because of it.  I can’t expect anything to be normal.   

I don’t really know whether or how to address it. Does anyone have any suggestions about a good way to respond when stories that reflect feelings vs. fact result in strained relationships with the other side of the family?   

[waverider]

This is very common and has its roots in avoidance of responsibility and a need to validate/justify their own otherwise unexplainable feelings, overlaid with for a need for a black and white solution.

> I feel bad there must be a reason. Bring out some snapshot facts from the memory bank and overlay the feeling of today so that the "revised past" backs up todays feelings. Neat solution, everythings right now in their mind. Collateral effect on anyone else is of no consequence.

> Different feeling, same memory snapshots can be used overlayed with new alternative feeling of the moment> The result is a different reality recollection of the same "snapshot facts".

The problem is that because there are nuggets of truth in there it can be very believable, even to yourself so unless you have a strong conviction in your own truth you can start to doubt yourself.

This is often confused with "gaslighting" but it is not the same, gaslighting is the deliberate strategic manipulation by a clever mind for the sole purpose of brainwashing another. In BPD a similar consequence occurs but is simply the distorted recollection of an unstable mind that can confuse someone who cannot interpret it for what it is. We are not the target, just careless collateral.

[JohnLove]

It took me quite a while to figure this crap out. I've figured it out but it still doesn't make any damn sense!.

Many experts believe personal responsibility and accountability, right or wrong, at fault or not, BPD or not, is the way to function and to heal and to move forwards.

This is NOT taking personal responsibility or being accountable... .

... .and it drives me absolutely CRAZY!.

[thicker skin]

I'm just experiencing some of this today... .

Apparently, 4 years ago, during a separation, I dumped the kids with him for a week and went off partying? I know, that even when he was off work, I couldn't get him to have the kids during the holidays so I relied on good friends, whilst I worked.

So, I double checked back, via fb and my iphone texts... .He had them NYE because his date blew him out. I refused to join him, even though he said if I didn't, it would be too late and he'd have sex with someone else. How enticing  My evening was spent sat in my kitchen with an old friend, admittedly male.

Having looked back, I know he had the kids for 2 days... .It then snowed and I still refused his invites, staying at home, making bread, soup, washing and drying clothes at an Olympic rate to get back out to play... .That was me partying all week and dumping my kids.

Keep a diary... .It may just preserve your mind.

[Moselle]

unless you have a strong conviction in your own truth you can start to doubt yourself.

I'm beginning to be able to do this whilst separated for 6 months, but how do we know if we can handle being together with them again and maintain our definition of self?

I have communicated my boundaries and she calls them nonsense, however she is beginning to put in boundaries of her own, so I know its getting through

[waverider]

unless you have a strong conviction in your own truth you can start to doubt yourself.

I'm beginning to be able to do this whilst separated for 6 months, but how do we know if we can handle being together with them again and maintain our definition of self?

I have communicated my boundaries and she calls them nonsense, however she is beginning to put in boundaries of her own, so I know its getting through

The problem with communicating boundaries is they will always be dismissed. Otherwise you wouldn't have needed to have one if they weren't already respecting them right? It is often better just to act them out rather than trying to get an agreement on them

It is a good point about her setting boundaries as a lot of their problems is they can't respect their own boundaries, it works both ways. How real are they? Is she just doing that as tit for tat in response to yours? Can she keep them?

[willtimeheal]

This is often confused with "gaslighting" but it is not the same, gaslighting is the deliberate strategic manipulation by a clever mind for the sole purpose of brainwashing another. In BPD a similar consequence occurs but is simply the distorted recollection of an unstable mind that can confuse someone who cannot interpret it for what it is. We are not the target, just careless collateral.

I have a question. My bPD is angry with me and she broke up with me today. She owes me quite a bit of money and has always paid it back. She  is angry cuz her mower didn't work and I took mine. She called me petty. Mind you I pay for everything and all she says is "I want... ."  When I asked her to send me the money she said she didn't know what I was  talking about. She knows what I am talking about cuz she just text me last week she will start.paying me when work starts again. I know she said the "I don't know what you are talking about" to engage me and make me angry. I got angry but didn't write back or say anything. I feel it is best she not know she got to me. Is this gaslighting? Or just her messing with the truth and making her own truth in her mind?

[waverider]

This is often confused with "gaslighting" but it is not the same, gaslighting is the deliberate strategic manipulation by a clever mind for the sole purpose of brainwashing another. In BPD a similar consequence occurs but is simply the distorted recollection of an unstable mind that can confuse someone who cannot interpret it for what it is. We are not the target, just careless collateral.

I have a question. My bPD is angry with me and she broke up with me today. She owes me quite a bit of money and has always paid it back. She  is angry cuz her mower didn't work and I took mine. She called me petty. Mind you I pay for everything and all she says is "I want... ."  When I asked her to send me the money she said she didn't know what I was  talking about. She knows what I am talking about cuz she just text me last week she will start.paying me when work starts again. I know she said the "I don't know what you are talking about" to engage me and make me angry. I got angry but didn't write back or say anything. I feel it is best she not know she got to me. Is this gaslighting? Or just her messing with the truth and making her own truth in her mind?

Thats just flat out denying responsibility, she may believe it to be true or not. Imagine a kid with chocolate all over their face denying they ate the cake. Thats not strategic brainwashing thats simply primal denial. Instinctively not feeling guilt means there is no motivation for accepting anyone elses viewpoint. Self interest with no regards to how it affects you.

My partner often goes into denial as a first line of defense even before I have managed to state what the issue is. Its almost compulsive behavior it makes me laugh at times its so blatent.

[willtimeheal]

Thats just flat out denying responsibility, she may believe it to be true or not. Imagine a kid with chocolate all over their face denying they ate the cake. Thats not strategic brainwashing thats simply primal denial. Instinctively not feeling guilt means there is no motivation for accepting anyone elses viewpoint. Self interest with no regards to how it affects you.

Thanks waverider. I needed to hear that especially the self interest part. It's funny... .I can picture her in my mind laughing and typing the "I don't know what you are talking about."  I can see her saying this should get her going. I just don't understand it and I don't care to. I am exhausted and the peace and quiet is nice.

[waverider]

I just don't understand it and I don't care to.

Sometimes it is our need to "understand" that defeats us. Understanding is not always possible, Their language is not our native tongue, we only hear their languge via translation, we dont think in it. Acknowledging that it is different and accepting that it just is what it is suffices. Having some insight makes that easier.

The main aim really is to minimize how much it messes with us, just letting it be at times can often be as useful a step as any. You can't sell her your reality as she doesn't speak, or think, in your language either. attempts to do so are seen as invalidating and controlling.

If she thinks the moon is made of cheese, as long as you are not expected to go eat it, then  let that thought be.  Most of the time the delusions are not hurting anyone unless you allow them to affect you.