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Author Topic: What we are stuck in  (Read 3267 times)
Blimblam
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« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2014, 01:13:06 AM »

we are all hiding from the terrifying things we hide in our unconscious.  Pretty much everyone you will ever meet.

Respectfully, BB -- and I know you are doing hard work, so please take this as an alternative perspective (rather than a challenge):

I think we "cling" to what we have in our unconscious because it is how we "think" the world should work (even if maladaptive).  When we become aware of what we cling to, we can work it.

Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) this is something I will need to contemplate for a while.
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« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2014, 01:18:26 AM »

I really am at that point of starting to understand I cant help her.  She is disordered, toxic, damaged.  I have seen a fair bit of NPD I  her as well.  Very very dangerous individual and the mother of our son.  

By reaching out to her and trying to reconcile I grew so much more from that understanding however I have given her so much more ammunition for court.  She will have to bring it out and I will smile, say yes she has mental healthy problems so do I.  Lets get it all out their.  I care for her but I care for our son more.  

I have 5 journals of my thoughts and notes about everything that has occurred.  I have one that is just all different examples of her twisted thinking black/white etc and also idolisation / devaluation.  

She has some false accusations and the claim that I wont give up on her.  Seeing the cycle of abuse that last time did that for me.  Living it again has helped me so much.  The problem is more powerful than the person.  

I am not going to run away from my attempts to help her.  I may be frouned upon however I will say I have been true to myself to try and help someone who doesn't want help.  It has hurt me so much more.  Lets get the psyc evals under way and open up all of the records!  

I have accepted she wants no part in my life and I have also accepted that I don't want her to have any part in my life.  She is not capable of empathy nor recognising she has issues.  Lets bring them out, I wont hide from my problems lets hope she doesnt hide from hers.  

you are definitely still in the midst of things but you seem to have a good idea what direction you need to go in which is great.

the only piece of advice I can recommend for where you are at is being true to yourself in creating the space you need to for yourself to heal.

which is what you seem to be doing!  just as time goes on reevaluate what that is for you though because that may change.
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« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2014, 01:29:51 AM »

I don't know what is underneath that unconscious layer.

Could it be the realization/fact that you exist, and all that goes with that?

I will have to contemplate this for a while also. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I was kind of thinking in terms of systems within systems. and the outer systems we are connected to are culture.  nature.   The inner system? I was thinking it might be a plane of existence of like energy and emotions that overlay this plane of existence. I really don't know though.
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« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2014, 02:04:41 AM »

Thanks BB... .

If it wasn't for my son I would walk away, sell the house and move interstate.   Because of him, I can never run away from that responsibility.  I am actually afraid of her on such a deep level I subconciously thought I can go back their and put up with that so he doesn't. 

That when I think about it makes me scared.  Why should I sacrifice myself for her.  What example will that be showing our son.  In truth I can't even walk into the back room of the house still.  It makes me remember all the times I got cornered there and abused by her.  I am still in denial if I think I can change her. 

Will a psyc eval actually show her up as having these issues.  Will it show her as having BPD and then how do I highlight the effects it can have on a person and then on a child.  Will she accept the problem and go and get help, if she does I know it will be to get just enough to get control again not to fix the underlying issues. 

I really have a huge amount of respect for the people with BPD that seek out treatment and try to find out what is wrong with them to fix the problem.  If I am ever to meet a recovered BPD who has been through the years of work etc.  I am going to in person buy them a meal and thank them from the bottom of my heart. 

Even that comment, the problem is biased.  I will thank them for recognising a problem they had no choice in and very likely would do anything to get rid of. 

I will thank them for the other people that they have saved from the cycle by seeking treatment and thank them for the person they have become, whole. 

That may sound corny however I wont back off from that if I ever get the opportunity. 
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« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2014, 02:25:30 AM »

Thanks BB... .

If it wasn't for my son I would walk away, sell the house and move interstate.   Because of him, I can never run away from that responsibility.  I am actually afraid of her on such a deep level I subconciously thought I can go back their and put up with that so he doesn't.  

That when I think about it makes me scared.  Why should I sacrifice myself for her.  What example will that be showing our son.  In truth I can't even walk into the back room of the house still.  It makes me remember all the times I got cornered there and abused by her.  I am still in denial if I think I can change her.  

Will a psyc eval actually show her up as having these issues.  Will it show her as having BPD and then how do I highlight the effects it can have on a person and then on a child.  Will she accept the problem and go and get help, if she does I know it will be to get just enough to get control again not to fix the underlying issues.  

I really have a huge amount of respect for the people with BPD that seek out treatment and try to find out what is wrong with them to fix the problem.  If I am ever to meet a recovered BPD who has been through the years of work etc.  I am going to in person buy them a meal and thank them from the bottom of my heart.  

Even that comment, the problem is biased.  I will thank them for recognising a problem they had no choice in and very likely would do anything to get rid of.  

I will thank them for the other people that they have saved from the cycle by seeking treatment and thank them for the person they have become, whole.  

That may sound corny however I wont back off from that if I ever get the opportunity.  

yesterday after a full day of laying down like a shameless deadbeat slob in defeat getting up only to relieve myself for about 6 hours through most of the sunlight feeling the heaviness of my chest gluing me to the floor and like letting go always says just removing the story from  what I am feeling.  I came on here later and read one of turkishs posts and I started exploring that same thought you have that I highlighted.

I realized all that time I had been so hurt by her that I was afraid to even see her I just cant even handle it.  I really asked myself why? and why had I been so afraid to show her how hurt I had been? For where I was at in my journey it took me down the path to a big realization...

honestly today is the first day I can remember my mind has any sort of clarity at all in probably 9 months.

I really don't know how you folks with kids do it I am not that strong.
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« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2014, 02:30:12 AM »

We don't have a choice.  If we did well it would be different.  Unfortunatelly for us their is no choice.  Fortunatelly for the kids involved we make that choice. 

I do hope one day she decides to abandon our son on one level.  That is so selfish as the  I wouldn't have to deal with her.  What would it do to him though ?
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« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2014, 02:46:25 AM »

as the son of a BPD mom all I can say is find a way to find compassion for people with the disorder and educate him about it gently and without hinting about his mother. It will very likely be an incredible source of pain for him throughout his life.

I have put my life into ruin over and over because of relationships with BPD women it is my  self destructive pattern in life. I end up the guy that loves them probably the most of the majority of their relationships in life so they hate me the most and hurt me the most.
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« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2014, 04:59:15 AM »

I can elaborate a little bit now.  I am still typing on an I phone and cAnt type fast enough to keep up with my thoughts so it comes out fragmented.  

What happened was I realized how much of my fantasy of how I perceived the reality was a patch work of my narcissism and it patched up a part of a barier between my uncoincious repressed emotions and my concious awareness but I have an awareness that it is part of my narcissistic persona or ego or whatever my sense of self.  I could probably forget the feeling In my chest that still exists and repress it at this point. But I am trying to stay with it because I want to process as much as possible.  

The dominant somatic feeling is now in my gut.

Finally someone I can relate to! I've been on these board for like over a year. When I reached my inner child about 6 months ago. I had the most horrible black hole feeling in my chest. I swear it was like I had no soul. It was horrid. I couldn't appreciate myself and so I could not appreciate anything. I too have knots in my stomach most of the time. I have pretty bad anxiety and my narcissism got so bad after the relationship that I went on some narcissistic tangent about figuring out reality in a logical way and also about saving her even though she's moved on. At one point I could explain the condition quite well. But I don't really care anymore.

Anyways, it's nice to see someone like me. I think the solution for us is to do good things for others so we feel good about ourselves. And also just doing nothing and facing our emotional reality. For me at least, I have to face a lot of pain still and learn to appreciate life in a present and simple way to shed my narcissism. I've spent most of my life being rather negative and always having my eye 10 steps ahead. I'll call it intelligent stupidity. Smiling (click to insert in post)

The biggest boon from all of this has been that since I now have intellectual wisdom, I have offered it to my parents and drastically improved my relationship with them. Because now I understand that when people hurt you, it's really all about them and their weaknesses and insecurities. Anyways, I'm sorry you're going through this. This crap really is like some of the most soul crushing stuff ever. Hope you feel better.
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« Reply #38 on: July 24, 2014, 05:37:23 AM »


Finally someone I can relate to! I've been on these board for like over a year. When I reached my inner child about 6 months ago. I had the most horrible black hole feeling in my chest. I swear it was like I had no soul. It was horrid. I couldn't appreciate myself and so I could not appreciate anything. I too have knots in my stomach most of the time. I have pretty bad anxiety and my narcissism got so bad after the relationship that I went on some narcissistic tangent about figuring out reality in a logical way and also about saving her even though she's moved on. At one point I could explain the condition quite well. But I don't really care anymore.

Anyways, it's nice to see someone like me. I think the solution for us is to do good things for others so we feel good about ourselves. And also just doing nothing and facing our emotional reality. For me at least, I have to face a lot of pain still and learn to appreciate life in a present and simple way to shed my narcissism. I've spent most of my life being rather negative and always having my eye 10 steps ahead. I'll call it intelligent stupidity. Smiling (click to insert in post)

The biggest boon from all of this has been that since I now have intellectual wisdom, I have offered it to my parents and drastically improved my relationship with them. Because now I understand that when people hurt you, it's really all about them and their weaknesses and insecurities. Anyways, I'm sorry you're going through this. This crap really is like some of the most soul crushing stuff ever. Hope you feel better.

oh man, im on that figuring out reality trip too.  I mean its kind of fun Im having breakthroughs and sometimes I entertain the idea of creating a story or something with it. I still think about her too I don't think I will stop sort of ever on this one. I finally accepted she is not my soulmate yesterday.

yeah ive got to just go with my gut and heart... .and heal. 

layer by layer by layer... .

sometimes it is sort of exciting I guess still in the breakthroughs stage. 
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« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2014, 05:42:15 AM »

Yeah I write a lot of poetry and lyrics. It has helped me a lot. I had been writing poems on and off for like 12 years or so. Unfortunately my narcissism has taken over my poetry too. It really saps the joy out of everything. I've gotta get rid of it so that I enjoy this stuff, ugh. I suggest you write, it really helps sometimes. Stories, poems, or a journal.
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« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2014, 06:08:28 AM »

We all have to stop clarifying ourselves.  narcissistic this thay and what not. 

Ill ask something of you?  Would it be nice to have that emotional maturity of a 3 year old for about 5 minutes and just fully with no thoughts be able to embrace something 100% and engross ourselves in it.  Mindfullness without the effort!
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« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2014, 05:11:50 PM »

I often wonder if it is compassion for my BPD mom that keeps me stuck wanting an apology from her I think it may be a huge part of it
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« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2014, 06:04:20 PM »

I often wonder if it is compassion for my BPD mom that keeps me stuck wanting an apology from her I think it may be a huge part of it

Sorry if you have answered this before - are  you working with a Therapist on this very question?
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« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2014, 10:33:31 PM »

I often wonder if it is compassion for my BPD mom that keeps me stuck wanting an apology from her I think it may be a huge part of it

Sorry if you have answered this before - are  you working with a Therapist on this very question?

I would if I could but I lost my ability to be ability to afford it recently.  Unfortunately I have to go the self help route but I am trying to get things in order to be able to commit to healing full time.  I've healed from a traumatic BPD rs before and I can remember what I did that worked.
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« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2014, 10:35:56 PM »

Blim,

I disagree.

"WE" are not stuck in our own narcissism.

Not all of us are narcissistic.

You may be, yet at the same time ... .I wonder if this is more of the self-laceration and needing to accept the blame and not see your xBPD for who they are ?

If I understand correctly, people with BPD and narcissism are not going to stand up and say they have it ... .

By saying you are a narcissist there is a bit of ... .no, doubtful ... .in there.

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« Reply #45 on: July 24, 2014, 10:58:56 PM »

Blim,

I disagree.

"WE" are not stuck in our own narcissism.

Not all of us are narcissistic.

You may be, yet at the same time ... .I wonder if this is more of the self-laceration and needing to accept the blame and not see your xBPD for who they are ?

If I understand correctly, people with BPD and narcissism are not going to stand up and say they have it ... .

By saying you are a narcissist there is a bit of ... .no, doubtful ... .in there.

Well I don't mean that in the sense of a pd.  what I mean is more like pride.  I think narcissism seems to carry a negative connotation and often see it in forums like this what is really apd or sociopathy.  Having a sense of pride can be a good thing but pride also blinds us to certain things.  I think if I had used the word pride enstead of narcissism what I am trying to say would be seen in a different light. 

Everyone I have encountered has a degree of Pride.  Pride is not necessarily a bad thing but pride lets us repress aspects of our experience. 

Pride is narcisissm and it can be healthy but it is our pride that keeps us stuck.
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« Reply #46 on: July 24, 2014, 11:15:12 PM »

I kind of think the stigmatization of the concept of narcissism held at least me back from seeing my role In the rs. 

It was only after reading posts by member 2010 that I really started to even think about narcissism differently. 

Everyone likes to feel good about themselves. That feeling good about oneself is pride or narcissism it sees oneself as seperate from everything else. 

Think about the concepts like "swallowing your pride".  I think everyone can relate to that.  The pd is the inability to do that or unwillingness. 

But when we take pride in swallowing our pride that is once again another facet of pride. 

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« Reply #47 on: July 24, 2014, 11:46:24 PM »

We are stuck in a hole.  What we are examining is our own narcism and all the complexities of it's facets. 

If I think about the moments I "swallowed my pride," it was a somatic experience that is why it is called swallowing ones pride. It actually felt a lot like the feeling in my chest that is the "narcissistic injury" from this broken rs with my ex. 

Pride or narcissism gives me a sense of self. It is not bad but it has the potential to hurt me like it did in this rs.  It wasn't because I was a bad person to believe in the power of love but it is narcissistic.

The borderline objectifies herself so she will be subsumed into our identity. The moments when we are strong for her to sooth her and she is soothed and rewards us I got a sense of pride from this.  It strengthened the bond to my pride I felt pride in these moments I didn't feel the terror she felt in them.  That pride was my own fantasy.  To let go of that bond I am really letting go of my pride not her. Focusing on her as the thing I am letting go of will keep me stuck because i was experiencing my pride not her. 
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« Reply #48 on: July 25, 2014, 12:08:19 AM »

The pain is an illusion because the objectifies other I thought was experiencing reality the same as me wasn't the truth.  The truth is she was in a lot of pain I wasn't experiencing pain the way she was I had to focus on the positive to sooth her but the reality is much more complex than my subjective experience where I pushed down my fears to sooth her.  The illusion is thinking i was bonding to her. My sense of self becomes entwined with the idea I bonded to her but what I was experiencing was merely the pride I thought I lost when I lost the actual her. So It felt like I lost myself when I lost her but really the idea of her was just a part of me.  The pain is an illusion
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« Reply #49 on: July 25, 2014, 12:38:58 AM »

We never lost our real self or our false self.

All those moments we thought we bonded to her we were bonding to the pride she inspired in us our "false self"

When she leaves we feel a loss of our false self because we think we bonded to her but that is the illusion.  That is the narcisistic injury.

So now we learn about the disorder and we focus on detaching from her and that keeps us stuck.

We are not letting go of her for most of us she is already gone.

Radically accept her experience was much different than our own. That what we really were bonding to was the narcissism/pride she inspired in us that we have falsely projected onto her as that object. That this narcissism/pride/false self is just a part of us and the pain is thinking we lost that part of ourself when we lost the object. That is the illusion that is so painfull.  

"We are eternal all this pain is an illusion" - Maynard James Keenan

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« Reply #50 on: July 25, 2014, 12:49:53 AM »

Once sea_of_wound experiences this realization and write about it I think just reading it will wake most of us up I really think she writes that well.
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« Reply #51 on: July 25, 2014, 03:26:55 AM »

The following is the best write up of my realization so far

   

Re: What I am reclaiming.

« Reply #9 on: Today at 02:00:18 AM »

Quote

What you experienced throughout the relationship was your own self reflected back at you.  She was just a mirror you projected your own pride or fantasy onto her. Her experience was radically different than yours you were just a distraction to her.  What you were really bonding to was the idealized version of yourself you saw in her eyes that's why she felt like your soulmate.  All those moments where you soothed her activated your vulnerable narcissism and you felt an sense of pride when she was soothed conditioning you to maintain the fantasy. The illusion is that she the object you identify as the projection of your self is one and the same. You are not letting go of her she is already gone. You are reclaiming the part of yourself you think you lost wen you lost the object. You can already feel that part of yourself and it feels like a gaping hole in your chest you never lost that part of yourself though that is the illusion that is so painfull. Realizing all you thought was her was really you, it was your own projection, own it because that's just a part of you.

The pain is the conflict thinking you need the object to feel that part of you again. The pain is your body saying hey I'm right here HELLO! I AM RIGHT HERE.  Accept defeat and surrender to that feeling in your body. It is waiting for you

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« Reply #52 on: July 25, 2014, 04:46:47 AM »

It is pretty simple boderlines attach to narcisism because narcisism is our sense of self.  The degree of which we are blinded by our pride is individual.  In a relationship with a borderline they cultivate our narcisism so they can attach to it.  If we don't think we have a degree of narcism then we are blinded by it,  when we are blinded by our narcism it is dangerous and our relationship with our borderline exs are a perfect example of why. The game of thrones series illustrates it pretty well too.

It is who we think we are.  We go through life trying to make that narrative our reality. You can see it in group dynamics pretty clearly as people take on roles and the power struggle that ensues over the control of narrative.  It is the cosmic joke and it is absurd.  It isn't real.  I mean yes it is real in the context of our lives but we are stuck in it.  The borderline is there to set us free.  

Our pride blinds us.  Our pride keeps us stuck and it is the conflict of our pride and what lies beneath that causes us suffering and stuck in our schemas.  


I detached in the last 72 hours.  I regained my sense of self  but the main thing I learned is it is an illusion.  There is a whole other plain of existance overlying this one beyond the physical. An energetic one, one of the mind.  The false sense of self convinces us we are seperate from everything why the heck else would people do so much horrible crap?  Because they don't know who they are which is everything what you do onto others you do to yourself.  You screw someone over well they are you and you screwed yourself over.  

Look at society destroying the earth that is us we are destroying.  

The illusion is the object we identify as the projection of ourself is one in the same.
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« Reply #53 on: July 25, 2014, 05:29:09 AM »

Actually my sense of self is the only thing that is real but the idea that I am seperate from anything is my false self and that is the conflict.  But I only get to experience myself from my body holding me.
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« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2014, 05:46:26 AM »

www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29854-obsessive-philosophical-thoughts/

Think this might help you Blimblam, I suffered from it for like 2 years post break up and have probably had some of it all of my life. Meditation actually made it go through the roof because I tried to perfectly "be", which you can't do. I'm guessing since you remind me of myself so much you suffer from it and also very severe disassociation. What helps me a lot is to keep reminding myself to listen and observe instead of going off into my own thoughts all of the time. Anyways, good luck. Do as you please, just trying to help.
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« Reply #55 on: July 25, 2014, 06:04:17 AM »

Thanks BB... .

If it wasn't for my son I would walk away, sell the house and move interstate.   Because of him, I can never run away from that responsibility.  I am actually afraid of her on such a deep level I subconciously thought I can go back their and put up with that so he doesn't. 

That when I think about it makes me scared.  Why should I sacrifice myself for her.  What example will that be showing our son.  In truth I can't even walk into the back room of the house still.  It makes me remember all the times I got cornered there and abused by her.  I am still in denial if I think I can change her. 

Will a psyc eval actually show her up as having these issues.  Will it show her as having BPD and then how do I highlight the effects it can have on a person and then on a child.  Will she accept the problem and go and get help, if she does I know it will be to get just enough to get control again not to fix the underlying issues. 

I really have a huge amount of respect for the people with BPD that seek out treatment and try to find out what is wrong with them to fix the problem.  If I am ever to meet a recovered BPD who has been through the years of work etc.  I am going to in person buy them a meal and thank them from the bottom of my heart. 

Even that comment, the problem is biased.  I will thank them for recognising a problem they had no choice in and very likely would do anything to get rid of. 

I will thank them for the other people that they have saved from the cycle by seeking treatment and thank them for the person they have become, whole. 

That may sound corny however I wont back off from that if I ever get the opportunity. 

I'm in the same boat as you, 2.5 year old son, she was pregnant four months into our relationship. She trapped me.

it was a fairy tale to begin with, once she was pregnant I was screwed. That's when she became the living hell.

I can't walk away, I have a child with her and I need to protect him from her. I hope karma exists because payback is well and truly needed.
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« Reply #56 on: July 25, 2014, 06:16:36 AM »

www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/29854-obsessive-philosophical-thoughts/

Think this might help you Blimblam, I suffered from it for like 2 years post break up and have probably had some of it all of my life. Meditation actually made it go through the roof because I tried to perfectly "be", which you can't do. I'm guessing since you remind me of myself so much you suffer from it and also very severe disassociation. What helps me a lot is to keep reminding myself to listen and observe instead of going off into my own thoughts all of the time. Anyways, good luck. Do as you please, just trying to help.

Well I have only had it happen. Few times in my life and  I have had periods of dicasosiation when I wasn't in the propper space to process what I knew was bothering me.   The few times I had a bunch of thoughts like this In  my life led to periods where I was intensely in the moment untill I would get lost in a relationship with a woman and lose myself again.

I think I found my answer it is that last line I wrote it is the realization that allowed me to detache from the soulmate bond.  I'm glad I was able to get it into words because I experienced it as a bunch of interconnected thoughts and relived the relationship in a bunch of flashbacks and I could feel it refilling the hole in my chest.

The problem is when trying to come up with a theory of everything.  I accept that I am experiencing the world from my subjective experience and there are things I will never know.  The last time I had a bunch of realizations like this once I found my answers I was extremely present in the moment.  So present in the moment I could read people incredibly well and I became a Infj from an infp Myers Briggs. I pulled off saving a rainforest by playing it like a chess board and putting a bunch of things in motion.

I might as well go with it and pursue the ideas. The first time in my life it happened it was like all of a sudden I understood art on a whole new level.  It is not bad I mean the guys who made all those myths and created those archetypes and what not probably had the same types of experiences to be able to come up with it.

It is just moments of insight.  The problems is trying to force it which I am not it is just flowing through me.
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« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2014, 04:16:27 PM »


DBT as an entire skillset is beneficial for everyone, not just BPD.  It is like going to emotional kindergarten  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2014, 06:27:11 PM »

Thank u sb you are a gentle soul.  

I found myself again.  I feel amazing I reconnected to my source energy

We are all one mind
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« Reply #59 on: July 26, 2014, 01:29:41 AM »

Now I'm back to the uncomfortable feeling that's ok though I'll work through this. This probably sounds strange but the key for me has been to stay with the uncomfortable feeling and try to let go of my thoughts them once I have experienced enough of that uncomfortable feeling I get answers and my mind puts pieces of the puzzlw together and I experience it as a psychosomatic release.  I usually get a big surge of energy at some point after and I think it's over but them I return back to that uncomfortable feeling once again.
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