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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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KeepOnGoing
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« on: August 30, 2014, 10:28:55 PM »

Am I the only one who is obsessed? How do I get this person out if my head? I play her over and over in my head. What did I do wrong? Why would she just cut me off like that? I shouldn't have said this. I shouldn't have said that. She hates me now. Will she ever speak to me again? Will I ever get past this? What if I don't?... .on and on and on. She is on my mind 24 / 7 and it is making others who are patiently listening just crazy. I'm making myself crazy trying to understand the pathology. I'm comparing all of your stories, and they just don't quite match. Mine didn't rage. Not outwardly. Ahhhh. Someone just turn my head off! What the heck?
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hurting300
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2014, 10:34:30 PM »

Hey there, my BPD ex girlfriend didn't rage either but maybe once and that's when I called her out. Then few months later she simply disappeared. Yes I do 5 months think about her and cry over her, it's hard buddy. But you what? It'll pass. You will heal because you and me are morally correct and healthy. We may have lost our cool but it's not our fault we were lied to. This BPD thing is simply an addiction we must over come.
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2014, 10:36:41 PM »

And always remember, not all people with borderline personality disorder act the same. Not all rage and throw things. She could be like mine and have sociopathic traits that over lap. Stop replaying it. Trust me.
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
Infern0
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2014, 10:47:03 PM »

Mine never raged either,  she was very passive agressive,  I actually didn't see it at the time but she was slowly eroding my confidence with comments about me being "kinda short" when I'm 6 foot, and various other little insults that all came together to destroy my self confidence.

You are not crazy.  People around you will get sick of hearing about it though,  I know it doesn't help but you can talk to us on here or a therapist. Feel free to shoot me a pm if you want to skype or something,  I'm happy to help you make sense of all this bullcrap you have gone through
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Infern0
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2014, 10:49:26 PM »

Oh and by the way you are obsessed, accept it in order to get over it.  They force codependency on you and then take off so you have become addicted to them and now they are gone and you are left with a problem.

It will get better though trust me on that
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drummerboy
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2014, 10:52:24 PM »

Mine didn't rage either. Best 5 months ever and then within a week dumped and total silence from her. No explanation, nothing. She also was not a liar like many BPDs. Yep, it is totally soul destroying and completely does your head in. It's been almost 6 months and she is still very much in my head. She has gone bCk to her enabler parents and ex, the ones that treat her like a little girl. But her leaving has caused me to get therapy for some long standing inner child issues I've had. I wrote this about the situation

I didn't know it at the time but she gave me the ticket to the journey I had been wanting to take my entire life. She couldn't take this journey, and that is perhaps the saddest part.


Hey there, my BPD ex girlfriend didn't rage either but maybe once and that's when I called her out. Then few months later she simply disappeared. Yes I do 5 months think about her and cry over her, it's hard buddy. But you what? It'll pass. You will heal because you and me are morally correct and healthy. We may have lost our cool but it's not our fault we were lied to. This BPD thing is simply an addiction we must over come.

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hurting300
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2014, 10:56:30 PM »

Mine lied constantly. Then when I'd call her out she would blame me Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). Let them go, let them blame and end up homeless. Somewhere deep in there mind I know they regret it.
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2014, 11:07:36 PM »

Yes, you are obsessed. We want to try to rationally solve insanity. We can't, but we keep trying. We want to somehow fix it or at least understand it. We can' tandem it makes us crazy!

Mine did not rage either while we lived together (5years), until the very end, buddy. She got new supply (unbeknownst to me) and once latched on got all her power and strength from him to start abusing me. She turned into someone that I did not recognize.  It's been years for me and I still think of her every day... .I can only talk to one friend of mine occasionally about my feelings... .someday I hope it will turn off in my head completely. It has gotten much better, tho.

If/when she shows up in your life again you shut her down immediately and direct all of your obsession at absolute NC. Don't let the selfish alien back in... .It will harm you.

I think your feelings are normal for what we have been through, at least that is how it was for me.
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hurting300
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2014, 11:18:17 PM »

And trust me I've read hundreds of stories that they come back. My ex is suppose to be showing me what's up, but her drive by's say other wise. Keep your head up. You can not figure out disordered thinking. I'm actually getting over my experience with a total nut job. And you will too.
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2014, 02:56:40 AM »

Yes, you are obsessed. We want to try to rationally solve insanity. We can't, but we keep trying. We want to somehow fix it or at least understand it. We can' tandem it makes us crazy!

We can understand insanity. We have by becoming crazy ourselves and lost our minds. The anxiety and depression and pain we have experienced is what probably these people live with 24/7. A relationship is in many ways like two connected containers with liquid. What goes out of one goes to the other. I think I was holding her pain, anxiety and depression at times in the relationship. What she couldn't hold she was projecting it on me and I was picking it up (projective identification). I realised after a few months in the relationship that when we were going through 2-3 day phases when I was ok she was not switching to phases when she seemed ok but I was not. With honeymoon phases and break-ups in the middle.

Anyone else had that?
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2014, 03:16:32 AM »

Yes, you are obsessed. We want to try to rationally solve insanity. We can't, but we keep trying. We want to somehow fix it or at least understand it. We can' tandem it makes us crazy!

We can understand insanity. We have by becoming crazy ourselves and lost our minds. The anxiety and depression and pain we have experienced is what probably these people live with 24/7. A relationship is in many ways like two connected containers with liquid. What goes out of one goes to the other. I think I was holding her pain, anxiety and depression at times in the relationship. What she couldn't hold she was projecting it on me and I was picking it up (projective identification). I realised after a few months in the relationship that when we were going through 2-3 day phases when I was ok she was not switching to phases when she seemed ok but I was not. With honeymoon phases and break-ups in the middle.

Anyone else had that?

Yes. Took me a while to realise it, but when I was ok she was not, and vice versa. She actually admitted this towards the end and said she didn't understand it and was ashamed. When something went well in my life, she became irritated. I remember being really confused by this at first - I was excited to share some good news with her, but she didn't want to know and started telling me about various stresses and problems she had. Another time something else good happened and she said "You aren't the man I used to know," - she meant that she met me at a bad time in my lift, and preferred me this way. Basically, she was not on my side at all, she was 100% on her own side and I was more useful weak and down than strong and ok. No empathy, no real love, instinctively wishing your partner the worst. What a screwed up way to have a relationship.

It ties into the push/pull - I get close, she retreats, I retreat, she comes close again. It's an awful way to conduct a relationship, the total reverse of how it should be.

After we split up and she insisted on being friends, I soon realised that every time I was on the mend, she would work hard to drag me back down. When I was destroyed, she perked up. She'd alternate between cruelly giving me hope, and raging about how I'd wrecked everything, depending on what was required to keep me hooked on her. This was what gave me the strength to terminate the "friendship" for good, and 3 days later she was living with a new guy I'd never heard of.

I realised towards the end that the only future for us would involve me miserable, emascualted, no life of my own, no friends, no money, no job, probably no proper home, probably looking after her baby while she did what she liked, until she got bored and replaced me, leaving me with nothing at all. And yet I would still have gone through with this, because it was better than being without her.

I heard someone talking about heroin once "It takes everything from you, and you happily hand it over because having nothing is better than not having heroin." It's been a nightmare, but i'm getting clean, and it could have been so so much worse. Some addicts never escape because the pain of withdrawal is just too much. The pain has been overwhelming, but I will come out the other side and be glad of it.
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2014, 03:29:10 AM »

I can relate to this camuse and yes it doesn't make any logical sense. I used to do thoughtful things for her particularly at the start and she used to be pleasantly surprised etc. so I told her once this I am not doing this only for you, I am doing it for me too... .she asked me 'what do you mean?' I said well... .Aside loving you for what you are it is also in my own best interests for you to be ok and happy... .She still didn't get it... .I said well if you are happy then me being around you makes me even more happy... .Guess what happened? She got angry... .It was egotistical for me to see it as a win-win... .Go figure dude
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2014, 03:36:17 AM »

It makes sense when you realise you were an object to them, something useful for the time being.

It's difficult to accept this, but you really are just like a can of drink - useful while full, discarded when empty. It's tough to accept this, since we don't think of our partners in the same way. Normal people in love want their partner to be happy, enjoy surprising them or doing kind things. I think PDs do nothing genuinely for another, only to get something in return. There's an element of "using" in all relationships - we are there to get our needs met. But love involves genuine compassion and empathy, which I think these people often don't really experience because they are too preoccupied with surviving the disorder hour by hour.

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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2014, 03:46:02 AM »

You are right they rarely do genuine acts for another, and usually they do things to get something back in return or to avoid abandonment (and then they hate you for it). She used to do things for me that I didn't even ask for or didn't need to and then she would throw them back at me on the first argument. I care so much I do this and that for you and you don't... . She also used to do things when i was distancing myself to keep me close and avoid abandonment (but she would herself and me for it).

After a few months down the line, I dreaded when she would do something nice because I knew that she had some 'tab' in the back of her mind. With a BPD person rarely something is given freely from the heart.
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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2014, 03:56:09 AM »

The last time I saw her I was really really in a bad place,  emotionally ruined by her,  I'd asked for space and explained that I was heartbroken and confused and just needed some space (she was trying to make me be "friends" anyway she had called me telling me she was confused about what she was doing and I was like well you are happy with your new guy, she said she wasn't happy and was confused... .I tried to talk to her about it and tell her she needed to get back on her meds and back in therapy. She called me two days later after I had again asked for space. I said I was really down but she said to meet her and she would "help me"

I knew subconsciously there was no help she could give me but I was concerned about her and despite my entire body screaming stay away, I went thinking I could help her.

The same person who was so depressed and confused two days ago sat across from me with a big smile on her face as I told her how I felt and she gave me some bull___ lines about putting myself back together. She also told me my female friend who had been really helping me through this was "no good" she told me "I know the sort of person she is" and then projected herself onto my friend, whilst happily eating a muffin. I was so confused,  I then tried to switch the conversation to her and what she was doing, after all the problems and confusion she had expressed, to which she told me she was fine, and she didn't want to talk about things like that and just wanted to have fun and for me to make her laugh like I used to.  

I told her there wasn't much humour left inside me and told her that I couldn't be her friend,  it wasn't right but that I'd be there if she ever needed help or wanted to have a serious talk about things.

So yeah,  last time I saw her she definatley enjoyed seeing me suffer, I didn't know about BPD then and it was so confusing and painful.  You just can't process it, but in some twisted way it's like them abusing you is revenge for the abuse they went through, it's sick.
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BorisAcusio
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« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2014, 03:58:48 AM »

Mine didn't rage either. Best 5 months ever and then within a week dumped and total silence from her. No explanation, nothing. She also was not a liar like many BPDs. Yep, it is totally soul destroying and completely does your head in. It's been almost 6 months and she is still very much in my head. She has gone bCk to her enabler parents and ex, the ones that treat her like a little girl. But her leaving has caused me to get therapy for some long standing inner child issues I've had. I wrote this about the situation

I didn't know it at the time but she gave me the ticket to the journey I had been wanting to take my entire life. She couldn't take this journey, and that is perhaps the saddest part.


Hey there, my BPD ex girlfriend didn't rage either but maybe once and that's when I called her out. Then few months later she simply disappeared. Yes I do 5 months think about her and cry over her, it's hard buddy. But you what? It'll pass. You will heal because you and me are morally correct and healthy. We may have lost our cool but it's not our fault we were lied to. This BPD thing is simply an addiction we must over come.


No lying, no deception, no rage. What makes you think she was borderline, after all?
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freedom33
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« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2014, 04:01:39 AM »

them abusing you is revenge for the abuse they went through, it's sick.

My exBPDgf told me that BPD people sometimes want others to know and feel how it is to have BPD. I suppose they connect through sharing their pain. Maybe that's all they got. I felt bits of it. It was hell
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« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2014, 04:06:38 AM »

them abusing you is revenge for the abuse they went through, it's sick.

My exBPDgf told me that BPD people sometimes want others to know and feel how it is to have BPD. I suppose they connect through sharing their pain. Maybe that's all they got. I felt bits of it. It was hell

I have a pretty good gauge on how it must feel, I went through 6 months of more pain than I could have ever imagined, and now I have a messed up brain that I no longer have real control over.

The difference is I know I'm unwell because of this and am working on getting better, also I don't "blame" her for doing this to me, so I know I'm mentally injured and not mentally ill.

I wish I could help her but I can't,  you'd have to have the emotion control of Mr Spock to be able to deal with this, mind you didn't he go crazy once because of a woman,  so even he would probably Crack if he met my BPD angel
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freedom33
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« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2014, 04:11:34 AM »

I wish I could help her but I can't,  you'd have to have the emotion control of Mr Spock to be able to deal with this, mind you didn't he go crazy once because of a woman,  so even he would probably Crack if he met my BPD angel

I went through a 2-3 month period where she was doing all her usual craziness but I had my emotions under control. I did it by simply switching my thinking into something else. Basically detaching and disconnecting from her and the relationship. Which in effect means that I could handle it only when I was not involved emotionally in my mind in a r/s with her. Then I thought ok I can do this but what is the point? So the only way to be with her is not be with her? Then she complained that i didn't care for her or being into her. She really had the hots for me then... .I got pulled back in. Welcome to the absurd!
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« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2014, 05:37:56 AM »

If you look at the 9 traits in the DSM (5 of which have to be present for a diagnosis) lying is not mentioned. My ex had at least 6 of the traits, possibly 7 of them so I'm pretty confident she had BPD. Regarding the rage, quite a few people here have said that theirs did not rage, I think she just kept hers inside. Example, our last day together she had definitely split me black but she was still saying right to the end that she loved me and hours before we said goodbye she initiated sex, even though I could tell it was over and she had turned.

Mine didn't rage either. Best 5 months ever and then within a week dumped and total silence from her. No explanation, nothing. She also was not a liar like many BPDs. Yep, it is totally soul destroying and completely does your head in. It's been almost 6 months and she is still very much in my head. She has gone bCk to her enabler parents and ex, the ones that treat her like a little girl. But her leaving has caused me to get therapy for some long standing inner child issues I've had. I wrote this about the situation

I didn't know it at the time but she gave me the ticket to the journey I had been wanting to take my entire life. She couldn't take this journey, and that is perhaps the saddest part.


Hey there, my BPD ex girlfriend didn't rage either but maybe once and that's when I called her out. Then few months later she simply disappeared. Yes I do 5 months think about her and cry over her, it's hard buddy. But you what? It'll pass. You will heal because you and me are morally correct and healthy. We may have lost our cool but it's not our fault we were lied to. This BPD thing is simply an addiction we must over come.


No lying, no deception, no rage. What makes you think she was borderline, after all?

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« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2014, 06:03:20 AM »

If you look at the 9 traits in the DSM (5 of which have to be present for a diagnosis) lying is not mentioned. My ex had at least 6 of the traits, possibly 7 of them so I'm pretty confident she had BPD. Regarding the rage, quite a few people here have said that theirs did not rage, I think she just kept hers inside. Example, our last day together she had definitely split me black but she was still saying right to the end that she loved me and hours before we said goodbye she initiated sex, even though I could tell it was over and she had turned.

Mine didn't rage either. Best 5 months ever and then within a week dumped and total silence from her. No explanation, nothing. She also was not a liar like many BPDs. Yep, it is totally soul destroying and completely does your head in. It's been almost 6 months and she is still very much in my head. She has gone bCk to her enabler parents and ex, the ones that treat her like a little girl. But her leaving has caused me to get therapy for some long standing inner child issues I've had. I wrote this about the situation

I didn't know it at the time but she gave me the ticket to the journey I had been wanting to take my entire life. She couldn't take this journey, and that is perhaps the saddest part.


Hey there, my BPD ex girlfriend didn't rage either but maybe once and that's when I called her out. Then few months later she simply disappeared. Yes I do 5 months think about her and cry over her, it's hard buddy. But you what? It'll pass. You will heal because you and me are morally correct and healthy. We may have lost our cool but it's not our fault we were lied to. This BPD thing is simply an addiction we must over come.


No lying, no deception, no rage. What makes you think she was borderline, after all?


I can relate to what you experienced, as I haven't seen "mine" raging in the first 1,5 years of our interaction. Don't rely overly on DSM, it is only a guideline for clinical diagnosis. Nothing more. The therapist is using her theoretic background to interpret those traits in context. Deception, while not a trait, IS par tof the disorder.
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« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2014, 06:20:30 AM »

Some dont rage externally. Mine didnt rage for the first few months, but it soon became clear she'd simply being working hard to keep it supressed. I would have preferred it if she had raged sooner.

Given a generous rating, mine comes out at the top of "likely" with 7 or 8 traits, and high up on "severe" if i give the most honest rating I can. Part of me wishes I'd shown her this, since as a logical person I find it difficult to see how anyone could not see the truth when presented with this, but in reality I'm glad I didn't - she'd have projected every trait back to me and devalued the DSM etc, rather than fact the facts.

It's sad. Day 23 today of NC, and feeling much better. Last night a friend told me she had cheated on me with another friend of ours, and I felt sick, so I'm not out of the woods yet. But then it turned out she had got my ex mixed up with someone else in her drunken state, and I felt massive relief. Comical really, but proved I still care, so I still have some recovery to go.

What's interesting is every time I meet up with someone who knew us both, they admit that they knew she wasn't right in the head but didn't want to say at the time.
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« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2014, 06:41:09 AM »

Last night a friend told me she had cheated on me with another friend of ours, and I felt sick, so I'm not out of the woods yet.

I would feel the same.

I think the trick here is to really convince yourself that if she or anyone else to that matter cheats on you is not because you are inadequate or somehow not good enough but it's something that has to do with the other person.

I cheated on my exgf (not the BPD - the one before that). We were together for years and things were going pretty bad between us the last 2. No sex for a long time, no fun etc. It wasn't her fault. It was my decision to do that. It was a one-off, I was drunk, stuff happens you know? Now why would I take responsibility for my actions but then not attribute the same responsiblity to someone else's (e.g. if she cheated on me) in the same case, it is part of my problem and my own pathology I suppose.
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« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2014, 06:46:34 AM »

Mine had been in therapy forever and thought that every therapist she had been with was an idiot. She did have a major in psych so she did know what she was talking about when it came to mental illness, unless you talked about her issues. She would admit to GAD and nothing more.

To get back on topic. Frankly I'm getting sick of my obsession and am rapidly getting to the point where I just don't care, thank god! I'm in therapy and whenever I want to bring up my ex and talk about BPD my wonderful therapist gently guides me back to my issues. She is a brilliant therapist! Makes sense really, the only person I can do anything about is me, not my ex. The more I understand about this horrible condition (and this site has really helped with that) the more I let go and the more I just feel sorry for her knowing she will probably go through her entire life never knowing a moments peace and serenity, always a life in crisis.

My main take away from this whole mess is that the people attracted to the insanity of the idealisation phase, us, have some co-dependency issues. How else do you explain us not running for the hills when a BPD tells us within a week or two of us meeting them that they want to get married and that we are the only people who "get" them? Very early on she told me "I was the one" and that our relationship was "the big one" A person without co-dependency issues would say "Whoa, hang on, we've only just met" but we lapped it up.

Part of me wishes I'd shown her this, since as a logical person I find it difficult to see how anyone could not see the truth when presented with this, but in reality I'm glad I didn't - she'd have projected every trait back to me and devalued the DSM etc, rather than fact the facts.

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« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2014, 07:08:36 AM »

How else do you explain us not running for the hills when a BPD tells us within a week or two of us meeting them that they want to get married and that we are the only people who "get" them?

A very strong need to correct unrequited love and live for a moment (or a few months really) in fantasy. I had to grow up way before my time. When I was 9 I was already quite independent. My father had driven me from a young age and taught me the value of budgeting your money, being responsible bla bla bla. That was good in his mind but cruel for a child. I used to go to school by myself from the age 8. Used to come home when I was 9-10 and prepare lunch myself as my mother was working. Santa Claus never made sense to me as a kid. My childhood was robbed. I became quite succesful professionally wise by the age of 30. When I met this woman I thought I was in wonderland with Alice... .I lost my job because of it. The whole thing brought me to my knees. You can say that the benefit was that it broke down parts of my own false self. It doesnt matter. I hope I learn and grow from it.
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« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2014, 07:19:24 AM »

Mine had been in therapy forever and thought that every therapist she had been with was an idiot. She did have a major in psych so she did know what she was talking about when it came to mental illness, unless you talked about her issues. She would admit to GAD and nothing more.

To get back on topic. Frankly I'm getting sick of my obsession and am rapidly getting to the point where I just don't care, thank god! I'm in therapy and whenever I want to bring up my ex and talk about BPD my wonderful therapist gently guides me back to my issues. She is a brilliant therapist! Makes sense really, the only person I can do anything about is me, not my ex. The more I understand about this horrible condition (and this site has really helped with that) the more I let go and the more I just feel sorry for her knowing she will probably go through her entire life never knowing a moments peace and serenity, always a life in crisis.

My main take away from this whole mess is that the people attracted to the insanity of the idealisation phase, us, have some co-dependency issues. How else do you explain us not running for the hills when a BPD tells us within a week or two of us meeting them that they want to get married and that we are the only people who "get" them? Very early on she told me "I was the one" and that our relationship was "the big one" A person without co-dependency issues would say "Whoa, hang on, we've only just met" but we lapped it up.

Part of me wishes I'd shown her this, since as a logical person I find it difficult to see how anyone could not see the truth when presented with this, but in reality I'm glad I didn't - she'd have projected every trait back to me and devalued the DSM etc, rather than fact the facts.


Mine idealised me differently. At first she showered me with compliments which were way over the top - I was the best looking guy she'd ever seen (ridiculous), best at sex (and she'd had around 200 guys before me), best body she'd ever seen (this was just silly), I could have any women I wanted (definately not true Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)), smartest guy, we are just the same, same goals, have the same interests, she felt safe for the first time ever, etc etc etc. But she didn't want to make it a relationship, it was to just be casual but exclusive and not to label it as that would be too much pressure. Then suddenly she decided it could be a relationship, but she didn't want her friends to know yet in case it upset her ex, but I had to make sure all mine knew. Then she said she was in love with me - probably about 6 weeks in. Then pretty much straight after that came the craziness.

It was definitely idealization, but she was cautious I think and tried to rein it in as much as possible. She actually said that it hadn't worked with her ex because "we fell in love too quickly." I think she tried to slow it down as much as she could with me but still in her mind I was idealized, then when I let her down in some tiny way it was doomed, the downhill journey had begun.

In a way it's amazing how long it continued after the first moment of madness - about 20 more months. I think she had some awareness of how she wrecks relationships by the time I came along, and part of her wanted to make one work for once. In a way its a compliment - I think she did like me in her own way and really feared losing me, sort of knew what was going to happen, tried her best with brief attempts at therapy, meds etc, but in the end I got too close and had to be destroyed.

She put me on a pedestal from which I could only fall - I told her this once, and she said "but I think you are the most amazing man in the word!" Well if that is true, why are you shouting at me half the time and insulting and belittling me and showing no concern whatsoever for my feelings?

I remember her saying she went off an ex after he made a bad smell in the bathroom one morning. She probably literally thought his **** didn't stink, and once she found out it did, he fell off the pedestal Smiling (click to insert in post) She went on and on about this incident - it seemed to have traumatized her.
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« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2014, 10:18:06 AM »

Mine did not rage at me as I said, but she has to other people and pulled weapons. I saw cold hard proof my ex has borderline personality disorder with over lapping sociopathic tendency. My ex is very dangerous, she is honestly like a ghost. She would pretend to get lost comin to my house so I wouldn't think she knew how to get there. She followed me one night and told me anything I did that night. I never knew she was there. She has a high chance of hurting me I was told.
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« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2014, 10:53:59 AM »

Mine didn't rage on a daily basis either. She has thrown stuff e.g. a cup of coffee, keys, broke a vase once, another time threw a glass of wine at me (just the wine) - raging but nothing over the top (depends what your standards are... .). But her modus operandi would be passive aggressive. She would keep her rage under control but punish me in the devious ways for things that bothered her (which I didn't even know what it was). That in some way is worse. It's like you don't know when and where the next bomb will land and why? I was very very careful e.g. not to get her jealous as she would do nasty things to get back at me e.g. flirting with guys, embarassing me in front of my friends etc. She said that she thought I was trying to make her jealous. Trust me I said to her this is the last thing I want and I realise how it is not in my best interests at all... .For a moment she seemed to believe me... .Anyway they are all different.
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« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2014, 02:08:09 PM »

The obsession really, really resonates with me.  After a 7 month roller coaster ride she went into the worst rage I had ever seen, said and did some unforgivable things, and the truth (which I had known for a while but denied) dawned on me that I simply could not have any contact with this woman.

It's been two and a half weeks NC on my end.  She has tried to contact me many times with hundreds of calls, texts, and emails in addition to showing up at my home.  I have been strong and ignored them all.  Even when she says me that "something is wrong and I am the only one who can fix it" and the like.  I just continue to ignore.  Of course I've blocked her but she has ways around it (e.g., opening new email addresses, texts from computers, calling from blocked numbers and leaving voicemails). 

Anyway, about the obsession, I don't know what it is, but the past few days I've found myself thinking about her nonstop.  Having dreams about her.  Missing her.  She is so unhealthy for me yet I feel so empty, like something is missing in my life without her.  I wonder how long this will go on for.  I've talked to and gone out with a few other girls to try and distract myself, but it simply doesn't compare.  And then because I've been feeling so down, sad, lonely, and many other negative feelings, I lose the motivation to meet new girls. 

My feeling is for the time being I should take it easy and take care of myself.  But it is so difficult when my thoughts are constantly plagued with her - where is she? what is she doing? who is she with? BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER.  I cannot have her in my life and that's that.  Unfortunately, it's much easier said than done.
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« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2014, 02:14:03 PM »

Am I the only one who is obsessed?

No, you're not the only one.  I'm obsessed too and have been for the past two years since I met her.  I can't get her out of my head.  I check my phone all the time to see if she's called or texted and even if we're broken up or fighting (like we are now) I still hope to hear from her. 
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« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2014, 10:17:14 PM »

Thank you for all of your comments. All of this really does help. I think a couple of things raise some concerns for me:

One is the fact that many of you say it has been a couple of years and you're still obsessed. Please tell me that we're going to move through this sooner than that. Where's the magic bullet? Therapy? I feel like I have spent so much money on therapy over the years. During times like this I feel like I have learned absolutely nothing.

Second, I don't really know if the person I was so involved with is borderline or not. In fact we weren't romantically involved. She did once ask me if I was sexually attracted to her. I refused to answer. She was just a friend. And to make this even more complicated, I'm in a committed monogamous relationship with a healthy person. But I got hooked in with this friendship that obviously turned into infatuation. I now think she really is borderline and I am hooked and crazy and trying to not let it interfere with my current somewhat healthy relationship. I hope that doesn't mean I don't belong on this board. While we were not romantically involved, it felt like we were doing the dance, so to speak for nearly three years. The idealization phase definitely happened. So maybe some of you are reading this and chuckling to yourselves. Saying, yeah, right, call it what you want, if you were hooked, it's romantically involved.

Third, it sounds to me that the root of a lot of the obsession is my seeing this person in one way that was presented to me, and then my riding in on a white horse trying to rescue her, then catching on to the "come here go away" dance. In other words seeing the borderline person in a completely different light and then finding out that most people who know her will say to me now, well, she clearly has a mental illness, and it showed all along. Like, why can't you figure that out and just move on? Good question. That's how and why I ended up here. This isn't my first ride on the crazy train. I have the uncanny ability to get hooked by people like this. I have a long history of it, and yet, I'm in a healthy relationship, and I guess seek to screw it up by obsessing on crazy?

Fourth, you're right. Most people are tired of hearing about this, including my ever patient partner. So thank you for the letting me talk.
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« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2014, 11:02:16 PM »

If it takes someone years and they are still obsessed, then they need to examine themselves as Co-dependent. It's been five months for me, I do have very bad days still but I'm really getting over it because she was sick. I'm better than that. And your ex? Maybe isn't borderline, or maybe she is. What's more important is that you do not try to analyze her actions. Keep a low profile.
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« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2014, 01:44:18 AM »

I found this site about ten days ago. I have read so many posts, lessons, and hours upon hours of readings here. I have joined in on at least 10 or so posts. I feel at this point, all of my deep questions have been truly answered here. I was originally obsessing over my ex because I just did not really understand what the hell happened. How can this sweet, kind passionate man switch from Jekyll to Hyde in a split second. How could he tell me that he loves me so deeply yesterday and then the next day not know how he feels about me. Truthfully this site really did have all of the answers that I so deeply needed to know and understand. As difficult as it was to swallow some of it because I love him with all of my heart, I accept what I read. It's time to accept and move forward with me. I have neglected the importance of myself by focusing every ounce of me on him. I refuse to spend any more time and energy continuing this cycle of everything being about him anymore. Yes there are some tough moments everytime somebody asks where he is from one of my social groups, but I don't let it be more than a moment, again now it's about me getting healthy again. He truly is not worring about me anymore, so somebody has to! I hope to be off of this site soon because I have taken the knowledge I can get and hopefully share it to make somebody else's journey toward themselves easier. I know it has to happen soon. Sept 3 will be a month since our breakup. I am 10 days nc. Together 9 months. I just refuse to suffer any longer for love for somebody who has no love for me. I have suffered enough turmoil trying to please him. I am so much happier the last 10 days. The weight of the world lifted from my shoulders. On my way to recovery finding myself and loving the wonderful me as I always had before I experienced trying to help a disorder I knew nothing about.i have taken full responsibility for accepting such poor treatment, love me, love me not episodes, verbal attacks, mistrust, and not stepping away from this the first time I knew I should before the first recycle. It is what it is and I have learned to be safer the next time. I am taking a time out for myself and my heart to heal because I do mourn a real love that I had, even if it was only one sided. It's a good day, I made it 24 hours without crying. I don't have to hear anymore lies anymore and question myself. I am in a better place today. Tomorrow will be even better because I want it to be that way. I am in charge of me and my emotions. Sorry for ranting, it's part of my healing. Have a good Monday everybody. I hope that you all start ranting and taking your emotions back and worry about yourselves. I was getting so sick from my exBPDbf. I'm taking control of my health and well being again. This week I will delete all pictures, pack up his memories, and try to stop looking backwards at what was. It's time for what will be!
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« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2014, 06:11:58 AM »

If it takes someone years and they are still obsessed, then they need to examine themselves as Co-dependent. It's been five months for me, I do have very bad days still but I'm really getting over it because she was sick. I'm better than that. And your ex? Maybe isn't borderline, or maybe she is. What's more important is that you do not try to analyze her actions. Keep a low profile.

Codependency is not a well definied subject. Some psychologists suggested that codependents are actually vulnerable or covert narcissists.

Excerpt
Sam Vaknin—"a self-help author who openly discusses his experiences as a person with narcissistic personality disorder"[17]—has identified a special sub-class of such codependents as "inverted narcissists."

Inverted or "covert" narcissists are people who are "intensely attuned to others' needs, but only in so far as it relates to [their] own need to perform the requisite sacrifice"—an "inverted narcissist, who ensures that with compulsive care-giving, supplies of gratitude, love and attention will always be readily available ... .[pseudo-]saintly."[18] Vaknin considered that "the inverted narcissist is a person who grew up enthralled by the narcissistic parent ... .the child becomes a masterful provider of narcissistic supply, a perfect match to the parent's personality."

In everyday life, the inverted narcissist "demands anonymity ... .uncomfortable with any attention being paid to him ... .[with] praise that cannot be deflected." Recovery means the ability to recognize the self-destructive elements in one's character structure, and to "develop strategies to minimize the harm to yourself."

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« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2014, 06:18:30 AM »

Yes with this logic i.e. calling a caregiver or a compassionate person an inverted narcissist is like calling Jesus an inverted Antichrist.

What would you prefer? Personally neither. Keeping in the middle is the most challenging thing to achieve.

A zen saying comes to mind. It's easier to walk on water than to walk on earth
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« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2014, 06:28:17 AM »

Yes with this logic i.e. calling a caregiver or a compassionate person an inverted narcissist is like calling Jesus an inverted Antichrist.

What would you prefer? Personally neither. Keeping in the middle is the most challenging thing to achieve.

A zen saying comes to mind. It's easier to walk on water than to walk on earth

Compulsively seeking validation from an external source, is not about geniune compassion or care, just a form of narcissistic supply.

As respectable member 2010 pointed out, until the fantasy brokes down, the vulnerable narcissist is the ideal match for a pwBPD
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« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2014, 06:58:55 AM »

Compulsively seeking validation from an external source, is not about geniune compassion or care, just a form of narcissistic supply.

All acts can be seen as if they are done with the purpose of an ultimate aim that implies gain i.e. everything can be seen in self-referential terms. I am spending time with someone because that makes me feel good - the experience of spending time with them is rewarding. I am attached to the experience with them. I start building a bond with them and I eventually love them because of what they are and also because it allows them to give me something nice. Does that make sense? Is it narcissistic? Is it healthy? Is it all about me? About them? About both?

It all depends where one draws the line. And the line is drawn in one's head. It is you and I that are making these judgements in our head as we type i.e. how we perceive an act (is it genuine? not genuine? for self? for other?).

I pretty much see it as a balancing act and there is a massive grey area in the middle. I am not much of a caregiver myself if my care is not reciprocated. I ended the rs after a few months. I don't have much patience for giving care if someone abuses or is starting to playing games with me - I even turned vengeful towards the end with her, trapped in a power struggle. Aside all this which is all human feelings and reactions, I do feel sorry for what my ex has gone through in her life and will continue to.  And I also feel sorry for myself (perhaps less so than I should have) and for what I have been through.

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« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2014, 08:23:37 AM »

I think you hit the nail right on the head for me, Boris. The piece about an inverted narcissist. Thank you. Something for me to ponder and take to my therapist this week.
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« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2014, 09:42:35 AM »

I'm obsessed too.  I understand how you feel.  I want so bad to not be obessessd.  He's not worth a minute of my time let alone 24-7.  He didn't rage much.  Like others commented he was much more passive aggressive but I could see the hate in his eyes and hear it in his voice.  I'm convinced now he is not only BPD but a sociopath.  One rage he did have I'll never forget.  It was horrifying but if he would have raged more I would have tried to leave sooner and he knew that.
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« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2014, 09:59:26 AM »

My ex always carried a book about psychopaths with her and often referred to it. She said she'd thought about it, and decided I wasn't one. I'm not sure what the relevance of this is. Maybe she realized she had no empathy and thought she might be one. She said she couldn't be one because she cared about her gran. But maybe she just feared losing her to old age. I certainly saw no evidence of her caring about anyone, including me. She knew a lot about personality disorders and had clearly read a lot about them. I think she knew, but could not accept. Maybe she needed to find an easier explanation. it's all very complicated.
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« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2014, 12:37:13 PM »

Guys, your reading way to much into this. It's completely normal to be obsessing especially when someone abuses you. And all you want is closure. I was completely obsessed with answers when my ex left me suddenly. It's natural Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). Stop thinking it's going to hell in a hand basket. We are all a little crazy considering what we've been thru.
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« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2014, 01:54:46 PM »

If it takes someone years and they are still obsessed, then they need to examine themselves as Co-dependent. It's been five months for me, I do have very bad days still but I'm really getting over it because she was sick. I'm better than that. And your ex? Maybe isn't borderline, or maybe she is. What's more important is that you do not try to analyze her actions. Keep a low profile.

Codependency is not a well definied subject. Some psychologists suggested that codependents are actually vulnerable or covert narcissists.

Excerpt
Sam Vaknin—"a self-help author who openly discusses his experiences as a person with narcissistic personality disorder"[17]—has identified a special sub-class of such codependents as "inverted narcissists."

Inverted or "covert" narcissists are people who are "intensely attuned to others' needs, but only in so far as it relates to [their] own need to perform the requisite sacrifice"—an "inverted narcissist, who ensures that with compulsive care-giving, supplies of gratitude, love and attention will always be readily available ... .[pseudo-]saintly."[18] Vaknin considered that "the inverted narcissist is a person who grew up enthralled by the narcissistic parent ... .the child becomes a masterful provider of narcissistic supply, a perfect match to the parent's personality."

In everyday life, the inverted narcissist "demands anonymity ... .uncomfortable with any attention being paid to him ... .[with] praise that cannot be deflected." Recovery means the ability to recognize the self-destructive elements in one's character structure, and to "develop strategies to minimize the harm to yourself."


Sam Vaknin's occupation is listed as writer. Is there a clinical source BorisAcusio for "inverted narcissist"? You state some psychologists, which?

www.en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Vaknin
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« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2014, 02:10:30 PM »

Sam Vakin does make sense to me, however some obsessing i believe is just your way of trying to piece it all together to find closure. We all seem to forget cluster b people can project their behaviour on us to a point where we question our sanity.
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« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2014, 02:27:28 PM »

I find the following generalisations and the assumptions that underlie them disturbing:

1) Most of people that have been involved in a BPD relationship have codependency or some other problem. This sometimes is presented as a given / self-evident.

2) Codependency is a form of inverted narcissism - this was mentioned earlier.

With regards codependency it is worth noting that codependency was proposed for inclusion in DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) and rejected because there are so many symptoms almost anyone could be diagnosed with codependency. Everyone can be codependent under certain circumstances, particularly people that have gone through some traumatic xp and exposed in a rs with pwBPD.  These rs become toxic as you know through 'intermittent reinforcement of reward and punishment that creates powerful emotional bonds that are resistant to change.' That's what they use to brainwash people in secret services and in the army. Powerful stuff.

There is no proof whatsover that people involved in an abusive rs w a pwBPD are predisposed to specific characteristics or character traits. The 'counselling survivors of domestic abuse manual' says:

'while there are vulnerability factors that elevate the risk of domestic abuse such as previous history of victimisation, or traumatisation during childhood, these are not personality defects or disturbances. In essence such vulnerability factors reflect damaged self-structures which prevent survivors from identifying their needs. counsellors must ensure they do not pathologise survivors, or collude in victim blaming'

I find that presuming that most people here are some form of codependents (which is not even a real definition) and in turn inverted narcissists (a term that NPD Sam Vaknin made up - that's where he drew the line and that's how he sees the world in his narciccistic mind - see my earlier comment above about drawing lines). For all these reasons I find such assumptions and generalisations neither accurate nor helpful.
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« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2014, 02:33:19 PM »

You are right, as I said when you are in a relationship as bad as some of ours, and then your abuser ends it, you do feel obsessed with fixing it or finding answers. If anything it shows empathy which is something a narcissist does not have.
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« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2014, 02:36:47 PM »

It makes sense when you realise you were an object to them, something useful for the time being.

It's difficult to accept this, but you really are just like a can of drink - useful while full, discarded when empty. It's tough to accept this, since we don't think of our partners in the same way. Normal people in love want their partner to be happy, enjoy surprising them or doing kind things. I think PDs do nothing genuinely for another, only to get something in return. There's an element of "using" in all relationships - we are there to get our needs met. But love involves genuine compassion and empathy, which I think these people often don't really experience because they are too preoccupied with surviving the disorder hour by hour.

This is very true.  When my exbf broke up our relationship, he said that I was "too giving" for him and it made him anxious.  In the discussion that followed, he was adamant that no one ever gives anything unselfishly, and that the motive of giving was to control - to get that person to stay in the relationship.  Projection, I think.  It was near on impossible to explain that I just wanted to naturally do things that might make him happy and that many other people had done so for me in the past.  The sad thing is that he couldn't just let himself receive the thing that deep down he craved the most - it still doesn't make sense to me.
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« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2014, 05:07:56 PM »

I don't wish to get into a terminology discussion. I do think that a certain type of person falls for the BPD idealisation stage. The one where they tell us that we are the ones that "get us" that we are their true love that they have been waiting for and talk about marriage and kids in the first 2 weeks, A person with stronger boundaries would say "whoa, wait a minute, we've only known each other for 2 weeks" but most of us here fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Therapy has shown me that I had some deep lonely child issues and my inner child had, in effect, been waiting for someone to sweep me off my feet.

Most people I know would not have taken the bait like I did.

I find the following generalisations and the assumptions that underlie them disturbing:

1) Most of people that have been involved in a BPD relationship have codependency or some other problem. This sometimes is presented as a given / self-evident.

2) Codependency is a form of inverted narcissism - this was mentioned earlier.

With regards codependency it is worth noting that codependency was proposed for inclusion in DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) and rejected because there are so many symptoms almost anyone could be diagnosed with codependency. Everyone can be codependent under certain circumstances, particularly people that have gone through some traumatic xp and exposed in a rs with pwBPD.  These rs become toxic as you know through 'intermittent reinforcement of reward and punishment that creates powerful emotional bonds that are resistant to change.' That's what they use to brainwash people in secret services and in the army. Powerful stuff.

There is no proof whatsover that people involved in an abusive rs w a pwBPD are predisposed to specific characteristics or character traits. The 'counselling survivors of domestic abuse manual' says:

'while there are vulnerability factors that elevate the risk of domestic abuse such as previous history of victimisation, or traumatisation during childhood, these are not personality defects or disturbances. In essence such vulnerability factors reflect damaged self-structures which prevent survivors from identifying their needs. counsellors must ensure they do not pathologise survivors, or collude in victim blaming'

I find that presuming that most people here are some form of codependents (which is not even a real definition) and in turn inverted narcissists (a term that NPD Sam Vaknin made up - that's where he drew the line and that's how he sees the world in his narciccistic mind - see my earlier comment above about drawing lines). For all these reasons I find such assumptions and generalisations neither accurate nor helpful.

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« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2014, 06:03:08 PM »

Bauie - There are risk factors and more elevated probabilities for some than for others to get caught in the FOG; however I don't think there is 'a certain type of person' . A certain type of person exists as much as the average person exists. We are all unique.

As I quoted below 'while there are vulnerability factors that elevate the risk of domestic abuse such as previous history of victimisation, or traumatisation during childhood' which can cause the lonely child issues that you explored and apply to you, these are not personality defects or disturbances.

Actually most people that I know may attest to some lonely child issues incl. myself. Most people have felt lonely to an extent in childhood and if one had a smooth transition to adulthood loneliness can transform to solitude i.e. one being able to appreciate one's own being in this world.

At any rate, these are all human issues that can be exacerbated by trauma, genetic predisposition and even bad luck/timing. What I am against here is rushing into diagnosis, pathologising survivors, or engaging in victim blaming'.

I hope this makes sense.
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« Reply #48 on: September 01, 2014, 06:04:24 PM »

Excerpt
I do think that a certain type of person falls for the BPD idealisation stage. The one where they tell us that we are the ones that "get us" that we are their true love that they have been waiting for and talk about marriage and kids in the first 2 weeks, A person with stronger boundaries would say "whoa, wait a minute, we've only known each other for 2 weeks" but most of us here fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Therapy has shown me that I had some deep lonely child issues and my inner child had, in effect, been waiting for someone to sweep me off my feet.

Reasons why we become involved with borderlines could be because of emotional crises in life, divorce or mid-life crisis and doesn't unconditionally mean that FOO is an equation in said r/s attachment with a PD.  

My reasons were FOO. My obsession was the lack of closure, shock from how the r/s ended, we were together for many years and a family was established. The rug was pulled from underneath. I wanted answers and I wanted my voice to be heard. It was trauma, this was a life event.
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« Reply #49 on: September 01, 2014, 06:11:51 PM »

There are BPDs who don't rage.  Read about them!  It will so help you.  They are terrified of disappointing others so they basically do what you are insinuating here…raging inward.  It's "acting out" verus "acting in" - go ahead, read.  You are so not alone!  We all obsess to heal.  It's kinda what our "Non" brains need to do.  It will lessen.  You are on your way.  Stay strong. 


Am I the only one who is obsessed? How do I get this person out if my head? I play her over and over in my head. What did I do wrong? Why would she just cut me off like that? I shouldn't have said this. I shouldn't have said that. She hates me now. Will she ever speak to me again? Will I ever get past this? What if I don't?... .on and on and on. She is on my mind 24 / 7 and it is making others who are patiently listening just crazy. I'm making myself crazy trying to understand the pathology. I'm comparing all of your stories, and they just don't quite match. Mine didn't rage. Not outwardly. Ahhhh. Someone just turn my head off! What the heck?

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« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2014, 01:02:35 PM »

Hey Hope0807

Where would I read about BPDs who don't rage.  Is there stuff on the Boards?  I'm very new to this site still.

Thanks.

Pets
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« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2014, 02:10:03 PM »

There are BPDs who don't rage.  Read about them!  It will so help you.  They are terrified of disappointing others so they basically do what you are insinuating here…raging inward.

Or they will not rage keep it inside and pay you back with passive aggresiveness. Mine didn't rage often (only a few times) but she would employ covert punishing behaviours to push my buttons, cancel arrangements with friends, play mindgames, subtle provocations, jealousy/flirting with others etc.
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« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2014, 02:33:27 PM »

Your mind will process what you have been through over and over until it repairs itself.  I processed for many months and after a year still have moments of processing.  I have about as much clarity as I will ever have now and I am mostly at peace with things.  I still have moments of obsession/processing usually brought on by triggers or dreams.  It almost feels now like it was all a big puzzle and the remaining pieces are falling into place.  I tried to fight it when I was early in the process of recovery but then decided to let it all play out for the most part.  You do have to eventually take back your life and perform your daily duties so you cannot let it totally consume you.  It all gets better Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2014, 06:35:20 PM »

Obsession is risen out of attachment and desire from within the human self. The only way to cause it to collapse is by taking the foundation away. The foundation is ignorance of reality. Meditation on love and compassion will destroy the foundation of ignorance.
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« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2014, 06:58:43 PM »

Pet. Read up on BPD waif, or acting in borderline.
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« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2014, 08:25:17 PM »

Non raging BPDs are called "Quiet, Acting-In" Borderlines. 

Hey Hope0807

Where would I read about BPDs who don't rage.  Is there stuff on the Boards?  I'm very new to this site still.

Thanks.

Pets

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